SACKED on purpose

[C-152Captain]

anybody hear about a guy last month who supposedly "missed" his return trip to HKG on purpose without telling crew control, the flight got delayed and he got sacked?

As it turned out, he didn't want to deal with the 3 months notice nor paying CX 3 months worth of salary so he did that to get fired, IT WORKED!!

He is now back at his old job in the U.S.

Good on ya mate!!

I wish more people have balls like yours around here.

[Bwatchful]

If what you say is true, what he did doesn't take balls, it takes no balls.

[fire wall]

Balls ?
The N Sync club castigate this company for the many "dishonourable" acts they perpetrate against the workforce yet when a collegue acts in the same dishonourable maneer they hold him in esteem. What of the crew member whose roster was disrupted due reserve call out as a result of this act. What of the other crew members whose date getting back to their families was delayed as a reult of the subsequent delay? What of the pax sitting in the terminal till the appropriate crew compliment could be found?
This company runs rampant because it is dealing with children. When are you going to grow up?

[C-152Captain]

Balls ?
The N Sync club castigate this company for the many "dishonourable" acts they perpetrate against the workforce yet when a collegue acts in the same dishonourable maneer they hold him in esteem. What of the crew member whose roster was disrupted due reserve call out as a result of this act. What of the other crew members whose date getting back to their families was delayed as a reult of the subsequent delay? What of the pax sitting in the terminal till the appropriate crew compliment could be found?
This company runs rampant because it is dealing with children. When are you going to grow up?

I hope more will be inconvenienced so this company learns to treat their staff better so this won't happen again!

[LapSap]

C-152Captain

You're not related to hostile23 are you?:ugh:

[Left Hand Drive]

An act of spineless selfishness more like - worthy of CX Management...

[hostile23]

No, no relation. I served my 3 months notice in full.

Just demonstrates how desperate some people are to leave Cathay Pacific Airways.

THE GREATEST AIRLINE IN THE WORLD..............yeah right!:p

[Felix Saddler]

I don't really know anything about CX but all ive heard are very negative things, what is so bad about them?

[C-152Captain]

what is so bad about them?

nothing, it is the best!

[Left Hand Drive]

C152Cap,
You are 'extracting the michael' aren't you?

or is your Dad :* on the 3rd floor pulling your strings?

[HotDog]

Should have stayed with his previous Command!

[canadair]

regardless of one`s dislike of their job, their airline, etc, one should still retain a level of personal pride.
An act like this, to be honest, says far more about the person, than about Cathay.
I would not endorse this action, and I think it is pretty one off.
I would not admire the guy for this, I would suggest that maybe this time, just this once, cathay got it right, he deserved to be fired, and he was probably not an ideal crew member anyway.
Doesnt change CX one bit, nor is it a "statement"
However, I still think they are a bottom of the barrel choice these days.

[Yeager]

You only get what you deserve. Cathay once fired 49 guys out of the blus and ruined their lives - they didnt seem to care to much back then - did they??
Too bad for the pax - but hey - thats life. I wonder if he gets his full pension paid out - does anybody know that? - just out of interest!:eek::D

Anyways good luck to him - bet hes having a laugh :D

[coded_messages]

I think no matter what his state of mind with the company was, this clearly shows a lack of professionalism. How is he going to explain this to his next airline?

If he wanted the sack I'm sure he could have found many other ways to achieve his goal!

[FlexibleResponse]

Pension?!!!

[John Wayne]

So what are we? Professionals in our chosen field, or morons who applaud such pathetic behaviour?

[Yeager]

Oh. I see they dont pay you pension?

[FlexibleResponse]

That is correct.

[hostile23]

I must admit that even I can't condone what this guy did.
Leaving kids stranded at Heathrow with stressed out parents trying to cope with being a day behind schedule on their holidays is pretty poor form really. If your going to go, go like a man not like a mouse.
I liked the story about the guy that laid his uniform and books out on the bed and left the hotel (that was actually funny) this guy is just weak by the sounds of it.

[C-152Captain]

I must admit that even I can't condone what this guy did.
Leaving kids stranded at Heathrow with stressed out parents trying to cope with being a day behind schedule on their holidays is pretty poor form really. If your going to go, go like a man not like a mouse.
I liked the story about the guy that laid his uniform and books out on the bed and left the hotel (that was actually funny) this guy is just weak by the sounds of it.

Choices:

1. Stick it out for 3 months and take more abuses while seniority passes you by at a new job.

2. Quit and run without notice and CX comes after you (in a big way) for 3 months salary PLUS 3 months worth of housing allowance.

3. Get sacked and get PAID 3 months.

I'd take the latter, thank you very much!

Kids stranded at Heathrow?? That's why they have reserve crews, mate!

Me? I just love to see CX get screwed!!

[Yeager]

My question was would he be entitled to recieve his provident fund, eg 100%of it?

Nothing about whats right or wrong and all that - just in relation to CoS. Im sure there will be other guys out there knowing the answer - as he is surely not the first one to sacked from the worlds most admired airline :D

Yeah I suppose its pushing it a bit to just not show up for a flight - on the other hand there are other dudes on standby (or should be) and cathay didnt seem to care to much back in 2001 when they destroyed the lives of 49pilots..
Maybe for a sim-ride or something like that.. Just call screwcontrol and tell them u feel unhappy dont wanna miss The Simpson on tellie..

I dont see what the guy has to explain to his new airline, do you really think all companies are so anal. Me, dont think so.

[C-152Captain]

49pilots..

Me thinks you should rephrase it to 49 families, mate.

[HotDog]

Me? I just love to see CX get screwed!!
Don't worry mate, you'll get over it. I was pretty stupid at age 27 myself and set out to right the world's wrongs. Takes a while to grow up.

[parabellum]

"I dont see what the guy has to explain to his new airline, do you really think all companies are so anal. Me, dont think so." said Yeager

When it comes to employing pilots yes, they all are and it is usually done by a 'phone call, you are being naive if you think they don't.

[C-152Captain]

I was pretty stupid at age 27 myself and set out to right the world's wrongs. Takes a while to grow up.

Do you believe everything you read on the internet mate? Let me guess, you think I actually live in Coastal Skyline in TungChung too, don't you? :ugh:

It sure does takes a while to grow up, hang in there! I am sure your turn will come.

[Yeager]

One thing, and it may only be a few, that Ive learned "growing up" is that people who uses the word naive - very often are just that themselves.

And no. I dont think, that all airlines are neither anal nor make phone calls. But maybe they should. Its called discretion, mate. Most companies will appreciate the fact that the prospect is still employed by another company. Cathay never called my previous employer - and thank god for that!! :D:p

So dont be so worried. Have fun.

[hostile23]

Who really cares HOW he left. The fact is he left. It's another mark on the tally. I only hope they've got a big black board and a lot of chalk, because they will be drawing a lot more lines through a lot more names in the next year or so..........................Too many opportunities out there that don't include " must be willing to humbly consume ones own excrement at the companies discretion" in the Conditions of Service.:ok:

[GlueBall]

The aviation community is relatively small, so word gets around; and someday his former [and future] employer(s) will learn what a D!ckhead he was at CX for walking off the job without notice. :ouch:

[Yeager]

You mean just like the community has forever learned what dickhea.s CX was when they randomly fired 49 pilots? Because the community has certainly learned that! :D

I dont think you are right anyways - dont think they will know. Its not a big deal anyways. :oh:

Cheers.

[C-152Captain]

Funny industry we work in. When it's time for furloughs or sackings, the company never think twice. But when you found other/better opportunities, it is considered as "disloyalty".

[C-152Captain]

The aviation community is relatively small, so word gets around; and someday his former [and future] employer(s) will learn what a D!ckhead he was at CX for walking off the job without notice.

You are correct! Aviation is small and our community has taken notice of what's going on over in Hong Kong and how Cathay Pacific not able to keep pilots.

Remember it is a two-way street, mate.

[Fenwicksgirl]

Cant say i totally agree with how this chap went about it but hey i dont know how he has been treated by CX. The fact of the matter is, is that we have options now that we never had and that can only be a good thing. The company has created this lack of loyalty and as someone said a while ago about the union, "management get the union they deserve", can also be appied to staff and their loyalty!!!
My loyalty left with 49 guys. I am here to get out of it what i can. When and how i leave will be hopefully under my choosing!

[ACMS]

geez a lot of people are full of hot air..............
Ya talk the talk but can ya walk the walk????????

[hostile23]

What walk would that be mate? Your walk perhaps? Two steps behind and slightly to the right of Nicky? Subserviant yes man..............:yuk:

[The Messiah]

hostile23

Just clear something up for me. Is it your contention that to work for CX everyone has to be a subservient yes man? You are an absolute crack up. Keep it coming I look forward to reading your rants.

Pilots quit airlines everyday in various ways for various reasons. This guy just chose to burn any bridges with CX, so what? This is a reflection on him a lot more than a reflection on CX.

[ACMS]

Ahhh H23...................still here I see. I'll give you just one thing............you actually did something...........so good on you I guess you walked the walk. However if I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say they were leaving I'd be able to retire now:ok:
I too have thought of leaving Cx for other pastures but at the end of the day they wont be greener than here. I've made my bed and am now sleeping reasonably well, although a pay rise is damn well over due. :*
cheers.
p.s. when do you actually leave Cx and join easy jet then?

[flaps 15 3 green]

I don't really know anything about cx but all ive heard are very negative things, what is so bad about them?

[HotDog]

Not a lot. The same handful of people out of a thousand plus pilots keep on ranting and raving about CX and the terrible injustices heaped upon them. These individuals will never be happy anywhere so don't judge Cathay by what you read on Fragrant Harbour.

[C-152Captain]

The same handful of people out of a thousand plus pilots

Holy Shiet!! Nine months ago we had over 2000 pilots and now just "a thousand plus"?

An expanding airline with a shrinking seniority list? How does that work?

But then again, it is not wise to believe everything written on the internet.

[HotDog]

And it's still the same handful that keep stirring the "Shiet".:ugh:

[Yeager]

There might only be a handfull (I see a bit more than that though) of pilots "bitching" about the worlds most admired airline (ohhh yes!) - but those "few" represent a hole lot more, mate. ;)

About walking the walk.. There a many ways to do that 2. Some guys, and more than a few, has already done that - dont think anybody want to refuse that fact anymore - other are about to do (knowing thats relative). Hot air.. well for some - sure - for others - dont think so. A bunch dudes simply havnt got the guts and are too stuck into walking behind Nigel, and have become to dependent on the money thing, most just dont admit it or have become ignorant to the fact, that thats what they actually do. Mate, I see them all to often, and its nasty! :yuk:

The greener paths are out there - thats a fact! Good luck to the ones who are still free.. Walk the walk :D

[HotDog]

but those "few" represent a hole lot more, mate.



I agree with you, they do represent a bunch of "holes".:ok:

[parabellum]

Interesting isn't it HotDog, a young buck like Yeager tries to tell me that because I suggest he might be naive, (with his whole eighteen years in aviation!), it must be me that is naive! Dream on Yeager, I have been 'phoned and I have made the initial call, it happens all the time. As has been mentioned, aviation is a very small world and no CP will wish upon another CP some a'hole who does a 'walk-off', or similar, or who takes to a public forum to denigrate his former employer before he has actually left them. Don't imagine, for one minute, that Easyjet don't know exactly who Hostile is, for instance.

[BuzzBox]

As I said on another thread, you know what's really sad? The number of discussions that get hijacked by a pathetic minority of employees with some kind of axe to grind. It's little wonder that the vast majority of CX pilots don't bother with Pprune these days.

[Yeager]

Well,

Parabell old fellow, it just doesnt seem so in this case, now, does it! :8 Im getting the feeling that you feel old and sad, judging from you post. Bet u wanna carry on till 60 and possibly 65, right?
At least we agree on 1 think. Aiation is a small world (maybe not as small as you wander around beliving though :p). Guys are getting to know AND choose where to come for their careers - GOOD! :ok: Maybe thats the main reason why so many KA and CX interviewers are being left almost empty handed after recruitment days (orr ohh noo its the "high" requirements - whatever :D)
If you, Parabell, think that CX, just 2 take an obvious example (it is after all the worlds most admired airline, right! :ooh:), are calling previous employers, maybe you should do a bit more of research into just that - cause I can confirm that they didn't call mine, and 100% of the other dudes I asked - just for info. :O

Anyways - keep smiling and researching. :ok:

[C-152Captain]

CX is my 4th airline (by far the worst) and they didn't call any of my 3 previous employers when I decided to go to HK (bad move) and take the plunge towards the deep end. I kinda wished they did and prevented me from getting hired here.

As for people leaving, didn't a guy on the Vancouver base bail a few months ago for of all places, an airline in Angola?!?!:D:D:D

That there speaks volumes about how terrible CX is!! I mean, he would rather fly in Angola!! and he's not even from Africa! (not that there's anything wrong with Africa). :sad::sad::sad: I wonder if he could give me a recommendation. :ok::ok::ok:

[inciter]

He 's gone back to his previous company and they didn't seem to be too concerned.

Airlines carry out their own assessments, the "phone call" (in Europe in particular) is made for airport security Id requirements, proof of experience and to ensure you haven't bent one in the past. Most airlines would have you start tomorrow if they could and don't give a flying
F:mad:k what your previous CP thought. The bigger outfits have their recruitment panels that might or might not include "the CP", Flight Ops Manager these days.

Intimidation tactics like these might have worked in places of limited opportunities like oz and nz where most spent their first 10 of 18 years in the business flying around 210s, 402s, kingairs and the rest.

Those days are long gone.

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

It strikes me there is a lot of disfavor amongst the pilots groups.
Its not only CX, but Atlas/Polar, AAI, Emirates, QF. Look at any
other thread and you see the same complaints, same song, different
dance. One wonders if this is a reflective state of the industry or
the mindset of the new age of aviation. Maybe the problems
could be solved if pilots could witness the "Greener pastures"
first hand, sort of like a trade amongst teams, and then reflect
on their own problems with a fresh view of what is actually worse.

[parabellum]

Dream on Inciter, my flying has been Europe, Middle and Far East, nothing in Oz or NZ and the culture of checking on a potential employee, regardless of the size of the airline, is alive and kicking if there is any doubt about the individual.
Obviously C152 Capt, Yeager etc. didn't give cause for any doubt at their interviews.

My initial post concerning 'phone calls was misleading, if a person fronts to an interview with a plausible tale and fits the bill then no, no 'phone calls but if someone does a runner, breaks a bond etc.etc. then a new employer is quite likely to be suspicious if they find out and may well check through the network. This thread is about someone who got sacked, that would raise my doubts, for sure.

[Five Green]

If the individual in question goes to N. America, the interview panel may well say....." Cathy who ?"..."Where do they fly ?"

They may also sympathise with the individual !!

Carry on.....

[iLuvPX]

Five G...very true mate..i bet thats exactly what would happen..most US airlines have more aircraft than CX has crews...why would they care about some small insignificant asian carrier that treats their pilots like dirt...ref. 49 of them.

[Yeager]

Ok, Parabellum
Now that explanation is a bit more of a plausible reason for contacting the current/previous employer. I agree on that.
Now I dont really see the point in a guy breaking a bond. I know guys who have done that and paid whatever cost - thats simply part of the CoS nothing wrong with that.
A "runner" - how would you know. I mean I can understand six-sense etc, bad explanations etc, but how do you actually know that?
Anyways for the guy "who got SACKED on purpose", why wouldnt he just show up at any interview and say that he is still employeed with the company or that he has given/will give the required notice?
As this business of ours is rocking up these days I also doubt that many employers are looking to deep into things, as a lot of the airlines are getting really short of crew (take a look at KA) and qualified applicants. GOOD :ok:
Sleeping Freight Dog. True my friend. It does not leave out the fact that you may experience better and worse airlines. The grass CAN actually be greener at some places - at the end of the day its also an individual thing.

[rjmore]

The guy was probably recalled to his old company off of furlough. If that is the case, then they won't check anything. He has recall rights and that's that.

[400 Jockey]

So Para your implying that Cathay, BA, Emirates, Virgin, Easyjet and Ryanair etc all talk to each other? If someone was leaving Cathay for Emirates or BA for example you say that the CP's pilots from these two would ring the Cathay CP and ask about these fellows?

Hmmmzzz I find this hard to believe.

[C-152Captain]

In the U.S. most airlines would actually only confirm dates of employment anyway. As a policy, they won't say anything else in fear of getting slammed with a lawsuit if the individual ended up losing the new job.

So there you have it. If you must leave and not want CX to come after you for even more non sense, just do what that other bloke did. It worked for him. He's probably laughing with the 3 months salary he got.

[inciter]

INTERVIEW

PANEL: Have you ever been sacked from an airline in the past?

CANDIDATE: Yes I have, I was sacked by Cathay.

PANEL: So what happened?

CANDIDATE: I was unable to make my flight, the flight got delayed and I was let go.

PANEL: Didn't they have any sby cover?

CANDIDATE: I am Afraid not

PANEL: Sorry, what was the name of the company again?

CANDIDATE: Cathay pacific

PANEL: Is that the Chinese lot that kept 400+ pax on board all night on the ground in SFO a couple of weeks ago?

CANDIDATE: I am afraid so.

PANEL: Riiight. When can you start?

[BusyB]

I am assuming he's being interviewed by the airline that likes crap in its aircraft.:}

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281365

[ACMS]

You guys really are dreaming.
Aviation is a really small world, we all know that.
I would suggest that 99% of all Airline Pilots in America and 100% of their Flight management would know exactly who Cathay Pacific are.
Good or bad.
:=

[parabellum]

400 Jockey - given that some of CX management have worked for all of those airlines you have mentioned and some of those airlines management have worked for, at least, two of the others on your list then I would have to say, YES, don't for one minute imagine that, if there is any doubt, they will use their contacts from previous companies to 'check', they do, it happens all the time and eventually the bad eggs are discovered.
C152 Capt. If all that happened was an unrecorded 'phone call between two colleagues then it would be hard to establish grounds for a law suite.

Inciter - are you ex CX, failed CX or what? Anyway up you are not being very realistic.

Airlines with commercial numbers like CX and SIA are way up there on the list of 'airlines we need to emulate' for many carriers, including some North American and some European.

Yeager - as you can see from PPRuNe, airline pilots will gossip like a bunch of chicken and when times get hard they will eat their own young. If you leave any airline, big or small, under suspicious circumstances, you can rest assured your past will eventually catch you up, if you have in any way mislead your new employer about your past you are a candidate for immediate dismissal, it is usually written in the very first paragraphs of a contract.

[inciter]

parabellum,

I am the one you left out but not for much longer.

What exactly are some of Cx's and SIA's attributes that we should be emulating?

If you really knew what I know about SIA you wouldn't let your dog fly with them (not from a flight crew perspective), but that is another thread all together.

They have had real easy far too long but the low cost revolution is here. If they continue to operate with their heads buried in the sand, thinking they are so good, the Pan AM, Sabena, Swiss fate awaits them.

I have absolutely no problem working for an airline that puts safety and standards above all. The one thing that really pisses me off about CX is that they rule by intimidation and fear and there is no room for such BS in aviation these days. I thought I left that crap behind 15 years ago when I moved to Europe. People are afraid to speak up in case they fail their next check or even upgrade.

What the F:mad:k does speaking your mind have to do with flying an aircraft?

[Yeager]

Have to say it ones again. I find it really funny and to some extend interesting that the boys club who speaks out about naivity and dreaming on are really the ones who are doing just that.. I guess its like the pessimists who so very often defends them selves and claims to be the realists..
Guess this discussion is not really going anywhere.. Seems to me that most of us are just flawing out "what we think are happening" - havnt seen any real facts, beside from the fact that of the 3 other guys (know thats **** all!!) none of them nor I have had phone calls from CX to our previous employers. Based on thin statistical grounds thats still 100% - "not happening".
Yeah right Emirates calling Cathay and vica versa.. Me, dont THINK so! :oh:
But I have been told that Cathay management did send SIA a list of the 49ers that they sacked in 01' - being the management by fear company, that everybody knows cathay is - I would not be surprised - at all - that they did.. Thats just the sad reality about cathay. :yuk::oh:

[inciter]

parabellum,

Funny enough you put SIA and CX in the same sentence. Brings back memories of an Ansett 747 on the runway in Sydney covered in foam a few years back when it landed with the nose gear up. It did suffer an engine failure first and the problems were traced back to poor maintenance techniques and procedures.

One of Cathay Pacific's E-lites at the helm in a Singapore airlines aircraft.

Nuff said!

[BuzzBox]

Judging by the amount of pure drivel being posted here, I guess the schoolies must have been let loose early this year. You children ought to find a few other hobbies. Oh, and perhaps Yeager could either learn to spell or stay off the turps...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[C-152Captain]

C152 Capt. If all that happened was an unrecorded 'phone call between two colleagues then it would be hard to establish grounds for a law suite.

Two colleagues? In an unrecorded phone conversation? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

How about this?....How about the airline having to send an official FAA document that has THE NEW-HIRE'S SIGNATURE on it authorizing the previous employer to disclose certain discreet information. A copy of which has to be sent to the individual, not just to his new employer. That's the law!

They can not do it behind someone's back, it can't be done without people knowing. Everything is in black and white and it should be!! It is someone's career and livelihood, do you think it's a game that can be played by "two colleagues"? No mate, not in America. But it seems to be the case at CATHAY PACIFIC.

So there you have it, they are free to say and disclose whatever information that they want, but that lawsuit is lurking! These U.S. carriers would rather save their money!

[parabellum]

"Maybe if a guy seriously screws his airline and then goes to another which the other knows about THEN maybe a courteous call would be made, which is fair"

That is exactly what I am talking about and should have made clear from the start. This thread is about a guy who got sacked.

C-152 - maybe in America and are you 100% certain it wouldn't happen even then?

Inciter - I worked for SIA for ten years and have a fair picture of them. From the commercial point of view both CX and SIA do well and other carriers would welcome their balance sheet. Low Costs have been around a while and I think you will find that SIA at least will take them in their stride.

Anyone got a reference to the results of the inquiry for the Ansett 747 Nose wheel incident please?

[C-152Captain]

C-152 - maybe in America and are you 100% certain it wouldn't happen even then?

No, I wouldn't say 100%..But with people being law-suit happy in this country the airlines will think twice...thrice...before they say anything that would hurt someone's chances of getting a job.

Didn't some idiot just sued the dry-cleaners 54 Million USD over a lost pair of pants? Of course he didn't win but just think how big the lawsuit will be if someone loses out on a job that pays him 10+million dollars over a career?

Like I said, most airlines wouldn't take on that kind of liabilities, they LET IT GO, even if one was a bad apple.

Letting go: Something Cathay Pacific has not being able to do.

[Yeager]

BuzzBox,

Sorry if u dont understand my English. I would be happy to write in any other of the four other languages I command if that would make it easier - but I guess that would only make it worse for you mate :8 ha

[inciter]

parabellum,

Since you asked,

Maintenance problems traced back to SIA, but that is not all.

Absolutely nothing found wrong with the nose gear.

Sby hydraulic pump NOT turned ON after engine failure.

25-30 kts fast on approach -a missed approach for most of us- remaining pumps struggling to get the flaps to landing position as a result not enough pressure to release nose doors. Flaps only got to landing setting just prior to touch down.

No GREEN LIGHTS on Flight engineer's panel - another missed approach for most of us-

But wait there is more, what the hell is that config warning going off all the way down the approach? Lets just ignore it and carry on -another missed approach opportunity-.

Just after touch down the tower informs the crew that the nose gear is up, with the reversers deployed the captain tries to initiate a missed approach on three engines-a no no-.

If it wasn't for the engineer stepping in and aborting the whole thing would 've ended up in a heap.

Commander- CX TRI/E training AN crews.

Cathay pacific check and training at its best!

[HotDog]

Cathay pacific check and training at its best!

Inciter, your recount of the AN accident is rather simplistic and biased to suit your own ends. Yes, the captain could have handled it better but too many holes of the cheese lined up and became overwhelming.

You can read the full BASI report here:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1994/AAIR/pdf/aair199403038_001.pdf

In the meantime, the synopsys hereby:
SYNOPSIS
The flight was an international regular public transport operation between Sydney, Australia and
Osaka, Japan on 19 October 1994. The technical crew consisted of a very experienced (B747)
pilot in command who was also acting as a training pilot, an experienced co-pilot who had not yet
completed his line training on the B747, and an experienced but newly B747-rated flight engineer
who was on his first revenue flight as a qualified B747 flight engineer.
Approximately one hour after departure the crew shut down the number one engine because of
an oil leak. They returned the aircraft to Sydney where the approach proceeded normally until
the landing gear was selected. With selection of the landing gear and selection of the flap beyond
a setting of flaps 20, the landing gear warning horn began to sound because the nose landing
gear had not extended. The flight crew unsuccessfully attempted to establish the reason for the
warning. Believing the gear to be down, the crew elected to complete the landing, with the result
that the aircraft was landed with the nose gear retracted. There was no fire and the pilot in
command decided not to initiate an emergency evacuation.
The investigation found that the oil loss was caused by the failure of a threaded insert used to
retain the engine angle gearbox housing cover. The cover came loose, allowing oil to escape. An
opportunity to action service bulletin SB JT9D-7R4-72-410, which would have prevented the oil
leak had not been taken. Although the same engine is used on a number of aircraft approved for
extended range operations over water, the manufacturer had not made the incorporation of this
service bulletin mandatory. The owners of an aircraft can elect not to action a manufacturer’s
recommendation to incorporate a service bulletin.
An unexplained reduction in air-driven hydraulic pump output caused slower than expected
operation of the number one hydraulic system. The system may still have been capable of
extending all the landing gear, given adequate time. However, the aircraft landed before the
system could complete the landing gear extension.
The flight crew had the opportunity to recognise and correct the landing gear problem prior to
landing. The pilot in command attempted to determine the actual landing gear situation from the
flight engineer. Although the flight engineer’s panel indicated the nose gear was not down and
locked, the flight engineer did not recognise this and subsequent communication and coordination
between the flight crew failed to detect this error.
During the latter part of the flight, the crew did not adequately manage the operation of the
aircraft. The crew’s performance reflected a lack of effective crew resource management, the
crew’s lack of knowledge about some of the company’s procedures for B747 operations, the
flight engineer’s and the co-pilot’s lack of experience in the B747 and perceived pressure.
A review of events associated with the introduction of the B747 indicated that organisational
factors involving both Ansett and the Civil Aviation Authority led to a situation where there was
increased potential for an accident of this nature to occur. These factors included deficiencies in
the planning and implementation of the introduction program for the new aircraft, particularly with
respect to manuals, procedures and line training. In addition, all regulatory requirements were
not observed, nor were they enforced.
The flight crew’s performance combined with the organisational factors to breach defences that
had been put in place to ensure the safety of regular public transport operations in high capacity
aircraft.
A number of recommendations were made as a result of the investigation.
Ansett Australia has advised the Bureau that it has taken a number of significant actions in
response to this occurrence. Details of the actions taken can be found in Section 4 of this report.

[inciter]

HotDog,

The training captain was PM so he should have picked up on the speed excursions, the fact the hydraulic gauge showed zero and its respective switch was OFF, or even the lack of green lights.

I thought that is what CX's supremely trained training captains are supposed to do. After all they set the standards.

It's not like they were out of options or time. All they had was an engine failure on a 4 engine jet.

They landed without having a clue that the nose gear was retracted.

I am sorry, but mine is an accurate account of what happened without the sugar coating.

parabellum,

If you worked for SIA for 10 years then you know exactly what I am talking about. Interesting how you side stepped the maintenance issue. For me sitting at the pointed end that is more important than the balance sheet.

So why did you leave after 10 years? Was it the fact expats are treated like sh1t or that a 777 skipper makes less than a turboprop driver in the UK.

Paying most of your staff peanuts and spending practically nothing on maintenance sure helps the bottom line.

Their success has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency.

This thread is gone off on a tangent (not unusual on pprune), but this time I feel responsible and I apologize.

I am just sick and tired of people like FloppyResponse and the likes where their aviation knowledge extends between flight international and the CX "safety mag" preaching CX's high standards.

They are no different to anyone else, accept it and move on.

[HotDog]

The training captain was PM so he should have picked up on the speed excursions, the fact the hydraulic gauge showed zero and its respective switch was OFF, or even the lack of green lights

Inciter, are you familiar with the 747-300 flight engineers panel, specifically the location and presentation of the landing gear annunciator module? If you get a chance, sit in the left hand seat of a classic and with the flight engineer positioned in his seat, see if you can spot the landing gear annunciator module which only displays individually , gear, door or tilt status if the flight engineer depresses either the PRIM or ALT GEAR, TILT or DOOR momentary contact push buttons. You have obviously not bothered to read the BASI report. The No. 1 ADP was not switched off.

It's easy to criticise with hindsight. How would you have performed under the circumstances? You don't know, do you? The accident was not connected to or caused by Cathay training standards in any way what so ever.

[parabellum]

Inciter - I did not side step the maintenance issue, I asked for a reference to the actual report which Hot Dog provided, a report you don't seem to want to accept.
I left SIA because I reached sixty years of age, I was not treated like sh1t, the operations, commercial and marketing departments are as efficient as you will find anywhere and are major contributors to the airline's success. I've no idea what they pay a B777 skipper but I know as a -400 skipper I was reasonably well paid when thirteenth month, annual bonus, provident fund, allowances, productivity payments and housing were taken into account and I have no beef with SIA maintenance so no, I don't know what you are talking about and I suspect you don't have much idea what you are talking about either.

[inciter]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[FlexibleResponse]

FR, WTF are you on about?

inciter, my apologies, comment is now deleted.

[inciter]

FR, WTF are you on about?

HotDog I stand by my original statements, despite the AN problems with training etc bla bla bla the facts remain:

Nothing found wrong with the pump (so it couldn't have been on),

Flap was selected to 30 at 170AAL (WTF)

the aircraft crossed the fence at 21kts too fast and was at 197kts at 1200ft. What happened to stabilisation criteria?

What about the decision to go around after touch down?

How would I have reacted?

Unless my arse was on fire I would have gone around for any of the above.

Don't give me the swiss cheese theory because this was an absolute cock up. And the reason we get paid the big bucks is to prevent them not sit there afterwards making excuses.

parabellum,

A 777 SIA skipper these days makes less than a CX FO.

I personally know three expat captains called into the office in the last four years that were told:
"Either go onto local terms or leave"

I guess things have changed a bit since you left.

[BlunderBus]

why not just nut out the 3 months notice and go out standing up...instead of on your belly?
what a stupid,gutless manouver that brings discredit to us all...i don't care for cx but it's so typical of guys today to let down their workmates,put us all in a bad light and have a knock on delay for hundreds of pax....what a selfish prick...

[cpdude]

Took a while to think about it did you?:}

[sia sniffer]

I worked in SIA, I can personally say that they are the biggest racist bunch of to$$ers you are ever going to meet. Cannot Lah, you expat, you go Lahore or Jedda or Ryhad, we go Europe and Australia and buy houses lah. But you dirty expat, you fly in typhoon, cos we chinese go sick lah.

No doubt CX will be turning asian in the next decade or so? Wasnt it the chinese guy who scraped the ass of the 340 ib Oz that time? Hope they screwed him, like they did to use guys in SQ.

[parabellum]

SIA Sniffer - you omitted to say if you were an expat F/O and I agree, they were treated badly and it wasn't all because several ran away without paying their bonds, SIA, for some reason has a 'thing' about Caucasian expat F/Os.
DEC got a better deal.

[elgringo]

ok, since we are all in love with CX and its management, does anyone know or have any comments about the Four Bar checkee that, during his four bar had the checker bad mouth his wife? who by the way is also a CX pilot??:confused:

[Tran Minh]

He actually passed the check, shot down by the review board. So the guy resigned. Pretty much another standard day in beautiful Cathay Pacific Airways, mate!

[elgringo]

vengance? i wonder if the BTC had anything to do with that?

(that is a rhetorical question, no answer required)