what are the degrees you can take to be an airline pilot

[chapers1704]

i ve been searching websites for different courses in universities to be able to get a better chance of becoming an airline pilot. i can't find any.can someone please give me a list of courses i could take. thank you

[Groundloop]

Degree courses that include ATPL:
http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=129
http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/airtransport-bsc.html
http://www.cabair.com/kingston/index.htm
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospectus/courses-07-08/aviation-management-and-operations.cfm

[TACHO]

aeronautical engineering? Leeds university does a good course that is combined with LFS. Alternatively you could just do a subject you will enjoy, get good grades and worry about the flying (and how you are going to pay for it, using your graduate job) later. I did History :}, did an integrated course and fared as well as any from loughborough and the like who had spent 4 years crunching numbers and working thier arses off. It was never mentioned in any interview. I would tend to agree with the point of view that your ATPL grades and your ability to actually fly an aeroplane give you the best chance of getting a job.

tacho

[Han 1st Solo]

As you're from Keighley, Leeds University, aviation technology with Pilot studies. Pilot training now undertaken at Cleveland Flying School.

regards,

Han.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

You can't find any because none exist! Go to a decent university and do a degree you will enjoy and that is generally respected, and get at least a 2:1. That, more than anything, would increase your chances of getting on a 'mentored' training scheme such as CTC/OAT/FTE. TACHO did history and I did English, so as you can see it doesn't really matter what you do. Just don't do a mickey mouse degree like 'basket weaving with flower arranging' or similar;)

Good luck

[EK4457]

You quite simply don't need a degree. At all. It may give you the edge on a mentored scheme but is that really worth 3/4 years of work and ten grand plus worth of debt?

You're much better off getting three good A levels (maths / science) and going from there.

That is, unless, you have loads of money and fancy 3 years of sleeping, and drinking..... :)

If you have to go to uni, go for a science / maths based degree.

EK

[BitMoreRightRudder]

EK4457

I don't agree - why does anybody needs loads of money to go to university? The student loan system provides the money a student needs to live and it is the lowest interest on a loan you will ever get. You don't pay it back until you are earning a decent amount and the repayments are very small.

You don't have to do maths and science at A level and you certainly don't need to do a science or maths based degree, unless you are good at them and have an interest in what it is you are doing.


You're right in that you don't need a degree to get through the training and get a job, but I do think having one gives you a distinct advantage.

[EK4457]

BMRR

AS someone who has a 2:1 degree in Chemistry/Physics from The University of Manchester, I can assure you that:

a) The Student Loan system does not provide the money for university. You get around £3000 per year. Out of that you need to pay over a grand in course fees. That leaves you with between £1000 and £2000 for the year. Even for a student living on the bread line, you need a LOT more cash from somewhere else. Ie more debt from a bank on a 'proper' interest rate.

b) I am still paying the SLC to this day, 10 years after starting uni. I pay back my loan when I earn anything over £11,000 per annum. That is not a decent salary.

you certainly don't need to do a science or maths based degree

That was exactly what I meant when I said You quite simply don't need a degree.

However, the original post asked what peoples recommendations were as to dergree subject. As someone who is doing my ATPLs, I can vouch for the fact that the maths and technical side is quite straight forward after a related degree.

Apart from engineering (which is just the two mixed together with a more practical emphasis) I cant think of a degree subject which would have the same effect.

So, to summarise,

You do need a chunk of cash to go to uni (or to get a bigger loan)

A degree is not required by any airline (nor does any even sate that it is a preference)

If you have the resources to go to uni AND pay for your ATPL (good luck to you) then I would recommend a maths / science or engineering degree.

I honestly can't see any other degree being of any use.

Enjoy the beer

EK

[BitMoreRightRudder]

EK4457

Bit of a late reply I know however......

"AS someone who has a 2:1 degree in Chemistry/Physics from The University of Manchester, I can assure you that:
The Student Loan system does not provide the money for university"

Good for you. I got a 2:1 in English from The University of Nottingham, and I managed to live on the money provided by the student loan system just fine.


"As someone who is doing my ATPLs, I can vouch for the fact that the maths and technical side is quite straight forward after a related degree."

As someone who holds an ATPL I can vouch for the fact that the maths and technical side is pretty straightforward after a totally unrelated degree.


If you have the resources to go to uni AND pay for your ATPL (good luck to you) then I would recommend a maths / science or engineering degree.

I honestly can't see any other degree being of any use.

As long as you obtain a good result, it doesn't matter what you do at Uni. GCSE level maths/science will get you through the ATPL exams. I maintain the view that as a low hour pilot looking for a way into the industry, having a degree gives you an edge over someone who does not. Once you have a few thousand hours on a jet then sure, no one will give a crap if you even have A levels. But you have to really sell yourself for that first step on the ladder. A decent degree in any recognisable subject will help you do this.

"Enjoy the beer and girls"

Very kind of you but my Uni days are, sadly, behind me.

Good luck with your training.

[geordiejet]

I did Information Systems at Newcastle. Nothing to do with aviation, but a degree in Pilot Studies or the like will be no use to me should I loose my medical/fail to get a job. It also had little relevance to my ATPLs but I still managed to get through all of the maths/tech side fine.

[phantomcruiser07]

I say do a degree in a relevant subject as some kind of a back up plan in case it takes u a while to get that first job, I would'nt really advise in getting any kind of aeronautical eng degree because you want to be an ATPL, rather do it if u enjoy it because it has very little relevance to being a pilot and it is one of the hardest programs out their! best choice is something in electronics engineering has more relavance.

[g1344304]

In my opinion you should do a degree, I did Aeronautical Engineering and have been accepted onto a mentored course. I know the degree itself isnt essential (at least one other guy accepted for my mentored course is starting straight after his A levels) but the life experience, financial responsibility, social scenarios, team based activities at uni and general hard work will really benefit you and set you up nicely for a career as a pilot. Even though my degree wasnt essential I would do exactly the same thing again and am very glad I went to Uni for the above reasons

[Life's a Beech]

Sorry, but some people are not answering your question.

THERE IS NO DEGREE THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE LIKELY THAT YOU WILL BECOME AN AIRLINE PILOT.

That is what you asked about. The advice you have been given is relating to
degrees that might be related to aviation. They will not give you a better chance of being an airline pilot. A degree of some sort might, for some people, give a higher chance of becoming an airline pilot. The subject of the degree is irrelevant. For a pilot even the institution makes little difference.

If you want to go to university then do a degree that you want to do. Give serious consideration to not going to university at all.

[aftab]

chapers1704

My 2 pence worth...

From what i know, i would personally advise you to consider not doing a degree however some people will disagree.

Doing a degree may put u ahead of many people without degrees when applying for airline schemes, however there are people who have got on to these schemes with A levels.

i would advise you to complete your A levels to a good standard and then soon after your A level exams find a good fulltime job and work for ~2 years. By doing this you will be able to save a large amount of money to put towards your course and in this time you will gain good life experiences and develop many skills. This will also reduce the amount of financial risk involved and you will around 20 years old which i believe is a good age to start flight training.
The best thing to do is write out all the advantages and disadvantages of doing a degree and take into consideration your own personal circumstances (for example will you be able to afford to pay for your flight training with your uni debt?)

At the end of the day it is a very personal decision as there are many advantages of doing a degree and also many disadvantages.
Can i just say if you are thinking of doing a degree as a backup you will need to consider which degree will get you a job at the end of it and it does not neccessarily need to be aviation related just because you want to be a pilot.
From what i know a (any) degree will not make it more likely to become a pilot, however it may help/boost your application. On the other hand there are people out there with only gcses.
your chances of becoming an airline pilot will depend on many factors and not only having a degree

Hope this helps.

[Mohit_C]

There have beem rumours that by 2010 all or most airlines will make a necessity having a degree, but many people say that it's a load of non-sense. In my opinion, I think airlines are more interested in knowing how well you fly rather than how good your are at studies; it just, perhaps, makes recruiting a lot more easier.
After all, a degree will take up valuable time you could get to build up hours, but on the other hand it's useful to pay up for your training.

[dontpressthat]

Reading these posts has made me consider my qualifications.
Having left school at 16 and only getting 5 gcse's D/E grades:ooh:, should I be worried about future employment prospects At 32 years of age.

I my passed ATPL'S with 86% average and am about a 2 weeks away from completing the IR.. I hope!

Anybody got any thoughts on my prospects?

Sorry if thats taking the thread of course a bit.

DPT

[REDLDR]

Get a degree.

Aviation is a changeable, fickel and unforgiving industry. Not everyone gets the job they imagine they would like so don't "put all your eggs in one basket". I would highly recommend you have something to fall back on. I've met a lot of people who have left aviation in their 30s or 40s - some by choice, others by loss of medical etc.
Find an alternative subject you like and get a good education before you proceed into flying, just in case!

[Groundloop]

From Life's a Beech:-

THERE IS NO DEGREE THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE LIKELY THAT YOU WILL BECOME AN AIRLINE PILOT.

Except perhaps the 4 degrees that I listed at the start that have an ATPL within them! In that if you want a degree AND be a pilot these allow you to do both at once.

[Life's a Beech]

No they won't give any extra chance of becoming a professional pilot. You can perfectly well do the ATPLs without the degree. The degree doesn't help.

In fact looking at it objectively now a degree costs so much, it is better to spend that money on extra flying or an instructor rating. A degree is a back up for not getting into a flying job, or for losing the medical. However you could always study as a mature student.

[aftab]

Quote:

''I would highly recommend you have something to fall back on. I've met a lot of people who have left aviation in their 30s or 40s - some by choice, others by loss of medical etc.''

Ok, you lose your medical at 40, you have a degree to fall back on.
When new graduates apply for jobs they will often need experience in the form of a placement year or maybe have to do a prereg year.
At 40 you will have no of these, so why would someone give you a job at the age of 40 with a degree that you have no experience in?? why not offer the same job to a fresh graduate who possibly will have some experience. So is it really a good fall back?
Also you have to remember no degree guarantees you job eventough some from certain degrees u may walk into a job. There are alot of factors that need to be considered.
In my opinion a degree will only be useful as a backup, just incase you dont make it through your flight training for whatever reason, or if you lose your medical in early days, or even if you are not able to find a job upon completion of flight training.

Just my opinion.

hope this helps

[c_jephcott]

My opinion would be to get a degree.

As previous posters have mentioned, aviation does remain a very fickle industry. At the moment the airlines are recruiting from the schools to a high extent, however, there really can be no guarantee that this is going to continue. We could wake up tomorrow morning and find that another terrorist attack against aviation has occured or that the taxes on aviation have been raised significantly. There are many many reasons as to why the industry could collapse overnight.

I was once told, when considering what degree to study at University, that the most important choice is to choose a subject that appeals to you, and not one that you feel you have to do. The trouble with the pilot studies degree schemes is that the degree is strictly limiting - if you do the subject, you're almost narrowed down into what you can actually do with it.

Myself, I studied for a BA in History and Politics and really enjoyed my time at University as a result of studying a course that directly appealed to my interests. And as well as that, I now also have a back up position if the industry does cave in. One piece of advice that rings true though is that "all good pilots have a back up plan ready".

Just my thoughts on the subject,

Chris

[TINTIN25]

I think a aviation degree is totaly unnessary to be an airline pilot. It all comes down to how many flying hours you have and your experience in command of the aircraft. I am not saying don't do the degree but if you are hell bent on doing one. At least do it in a different field so if for some reason you loose your medical certificate you have a back up career available.

[CaptainRUGHEAD!]

"My opinion would be to get a degree."

Well said Rughead, I concur wholeheartedly! :E

[dream747]

If one decides to get a degree first, to what extent is it worth getting an aviation degree with pilot studies? Is this kind of degree viewed as a 'good' degree as per engineering or science degrees? Many people I see don't work in the field which they have a degree in as many other jobs only require a credible and respectable degree and I wonder if a very specialised one like aviation stands in the same line as the others.

[Life's a Beech]

To no extent at all. In fact I would say it is worse, since the only industry in which it would be at all relevant is aviation, and if you can't get a flying job due to the common downturns in the industry, all other jobs will be harder to find!

My recommendation would be to get a real, academic degree, or don't do one at all. Those "degrees" are diplomas extended and renamed, not degrees in the traditional sense. These non-academic "degrees" give you no more employability than the same term of work experience could, they costs you money instead of paying you, and don't get you the contacts in the industry.

[aviatorpepe]

Great question! The short answer is none. There is not a specific degree that will give you an edge . . . With that said, I find it very interesting that in Europe a degree is not necessary to get a pilot job with a major airline. Here in the United States having a degree (regardless of specialty) is a requisite for many airlines.

Typically, the career path of many aspiring pilots in the U.S. is to complete a Bachelor’s degree and concurrently learn to fly. For others, getting as much flying time as early as possible is their main goal; completing a degree only after getting the flight credentials.

My career path was somewhat unorthodox because I went against the advice of the so called "experts." I started flying at 23, finished my ratings at 27 (I self- financed my entire career); I got my first flying job at 29 after obtaining all the flight instructor certificates (CFIAIM). After that I continued to flight instruct, flew night freight, charter, and international cargo. While doing all these, I started university courses via correspondence; kept flying cargo . . . And at 35 with about 7,000 hrs of flight time and a college degree, I got my dream job with a major U.S. airline. Today, I am a captain of B737's and enjoyed my distant learning experience so much that I decided to complete an MBA via on-line; only this time I’m doing it for personal satisfaction and not by necessity.

Good luck on your choices.

P

[Groundloop]

Those "degrees" are diplomas extended and renamed, not degrees in the traditional sense.

It appears that you have absolutely no idea how university degrees are validated. A degree must have approval external to the university that awards it to prevent exactly what you are implying.

[mattkcraven]

then go to university, study aeronautical engineering, physics, avionics; one of those sort of degrees, whilst working towards your cpl/FI/ATPL(f)


By 'working' towards your cpl/FI/ATPL(f) then do you surely just mean hours building? Studying for my Aeronautical Engineering degree leaves just enough time during the semesters to work enough hours a week (at tesco) to pay for said flying, nevermind additional studying. lol.

My thoughts on the whole subject is similar to barbour112. A full blown degree, with a PPL on the side, has to be more worthwhile than an aviation technology degree (for example) in the overall scheme of things. I myself (as many others) realised I wanted to fly from a very young age and have applied myself to now be in the position as a PPL holder with 100hours entering my final year of a BEng degree, including a year out working at GE Aviation.

Not saying that an Aviation Tech with Pilot Studies is less appealing to airlines etc, but it does contain less content degree wise, and with so many students taking up the course each year then its logical to say thats its all about standing out from the crowd that little bit more.

...........then again because of when i started the degree then I miss the 'top-up fees'. The "Would I start a degree now?" question would have to be, well, a No.

[TTango]

I've just been accepted onto the FTE/GB scheme. It's the only scheme I applied to so I can't speak for others, but there were quite a few guys who made it to the final stage who had an aviation based degree.

I got a 1:1 in Aviation Tech with Pilot Studies at Leeds and I got the feeling that the degree defiantly helped my application.

I can assure you, it’s not an extended diploma :ok:

[Life's a Beech]

Paying for rent/house; plus bills; plus food; now heres the good bit: university, all with what? a flight instructors wage?Errrmm, that was not what I suggested. Even though a flight instuctor earns a damned sight more than ... now here's teh good bit ... a student :rolleyes:

Why go to university, if he doesn't want to study any particular subject? Given the question we are responding to, he obviously doesn't. Why study "...aeronautical engineering, physics, avionics..."? They are of no significant help to becoming a pilot, which is the case in point.

Groundloop

It appears you have little idea of what a traditional, academic degree looks like. Every course in these subjects emphasises study in a different way from school, with far more emphasis on self study, culminating in some element of original research, with a major project or a dissertation, depending on the nature of the subject. Having lived with students of non-academic courses at a "new university" these courses are very different from mine. They were far more like college courses.

I cannot see any relevance to the external examiners, if the external approver has also redefined the degree.

TTango

If it is not simply a diploma, then what original research did you carry out in your degree?

[TTango]

The final year projects (dissertations), which were heavily weighted, contained or were based on original research.

The fact that it's a BSc also suggests it’s not an extended diploma.

[Groundloop]

Groundloop

It appears you have little idea of what a traditional, academic degree looks like. Every course in these subjects emphasises study in a different way from school, with far more emphasis on self study, culminating in some element of original research, with a major project or a dissertation, depending on the nature of the subject. Having lived with students of non-academic courses at a "new university" these courses are very different from mine. They were far more like college courses.

Life's a Beech

As a senior university lecturer with over 28 years experience (not at a "new university") I probably know a bit more about traditional academic degrees than you!

[Life's a Beech]

Well then perhaps you could suggest what original research can be done on surfing studies. TTango doesn't feel like saying what he did on "pilot studies".

[Groundloop]

Sorry, my mistake, I did not realise we were talking about degrees in surfing. However I am sure you could like at the hydrodynamics of various boards!

[Life's a Beech]

Hahaha, but yes I was talking about such "degrees" as the course run down in Newquay at what was probably a perfectly good college or polytechnic and has been "promoted" to a poor university. Pure snobbery, loooking down on education because it is not a degree, so having to turn what was a perfectly good course into a pseudo-degree.

[Groundloop]

Snobbery had noting to do it. It was political.

The Government had an aim to have over 50% of school leavers go to university. Solution - create lots of universities from existing polys and colleges. Result - immediately thousands more university students.

However, this is slightly off thread now.

[Life's a Beech]

Actually, I don't think it is off thread. A lot of people (and I must include myself here, which is why I am so insistent) just do degrees because it is expected, they don't consider not doing one. It is political, although I think that snobbery about vocational and on-the-job training compared to degrees plays a large part in that politics, but it has affected a lot of people's attitudes to their own lives. It does not always help them make the right choices.

As it happens I think I made the right choice, and I got a lot out of it, including skills I used in the work I used to do. What I didn't get is anything that significantly helped me in getting a flying job. The fact that I have a hard science degree, so am numerate, helps me in the air and made the groundschool easier to pass, but my A-levels probably gave me most ofthat and the degree was not worth the small benefit!

[TTango]

TTango doesn't feel like saying what he did on "pilot studies"

The pilot studies part of the course was gaining a PPL. The vast majority of the course is Aviation Technology. A quick google search will tell you exactly what the course consists of.

[Life's a Beech]

So it's an engineering degree? If it isn't then I can't see how you could come far enough to work on original study in aviation technology. If so, why not do an engineering degree? What help is this in becoming a pilot, apart from a very expensive, time-consuming way of achieving a PPL?

[TTango]

No it’s a science degree.

In my view, it is going to look better when applying to an airline if I have a decent classification in aviation relevant degree compared to say a decent classification in a psychology degree.

[mra2z]

I started a Degree at BCUC. We had a guest speaker from BA that give us a talk and he said "a degree is not that important for the job". I have since left and and discovered its better and cheaper to do it yourself. Courses are becoming cheaper if you shop around. Try cranfield aviation training school (CATS), they sorted me out when things got bad. I think learning to become a pilot dosnt have to be hard or too expensive.

[Life's a Beech]

Why? I am being honest here, as someone involved with recruitment, albeit in a small organisation. They really don't care. They want skilled pilots with the right licence and the right attitude. We don't even look to see if people have a degree when deciding who to interview, we look at hours, types flown and type of flying done. I don't even know if the guy I am line training at the moment has one, and I helped recruit him.

I know a lot of pilots who have gone through the training. I mean a lot, many of them close friends. The one that did best in his career not only had no degree but struggled with his ground school. Instead of a degree he worked in the business, so he knew people and he knew what airlines are looking for. And he earned money instead of getting into debt, so when he had to resit all his ground exams, he didn't run out of money!

[bgc]

If you really want to go to uni and ur keen on flying go to one with a UAS. You'll get lots of flight experience for free.

[Groundloop]

If you really want to go to uni and ur keen on flying go to one with a UAS. You'll get lots of flight experience for free.

Only if you manage to actually get in to the UAS. Competition can be pretty fierce!

[BelArgUSA]

Degrees... well - ºF or ºC, or shall we try Reaumur, or maybe Kelvin...?
xxx
Ok- seriously now....
xxx
There is veterinary specialization, for camel husbandry...
or, bachelor of arts in underwater basket weaving...
or, cannabis agricultural production, post graduate degree...?
Suggest you complete preparatory kindergarden studies beforehand.
xxx
Do you really believe the airlines mind...?
In the NBA, they all have a degree nowadays...
Yet only a handful few can read and write...
xxx
Learn to spell correctly, then maybe we will talk about degrees...
:)
Happy contrails

[bgc]

Oh it can be tough to get into the UAS. But where there is a will there is a way. However, I think its for people who are interested in joining the RAF when they graduate so its not for everybody. Time spent at the cadets and a sixth form scholarship will definately work in your favour when applying. Its just something to bear in mind when choosing a university as there are only 14 UAS's.

[martin1988]

hey all. anybody doing air transport and commercial pilot training with bcuc and cabair this year? all replies welcome:)

[chapers1704]

Thanks for all the input given I really appriciate it. I left my A-levels after a year because I found a two year course at a place called The Aviation Academy which is a campus from Craven College. I studied a two year BTEC National Diploma in Aviation Operations. I passed this course and I am still there doing a two year Foundation Degree course in Aviation Managment and Operations wich is also going to be used for a fall back option. After this I will be getting a job hopefully as an aircraft dispatcher to raise money for my flying lessons as well as getting a loan to help out. I will hopefully be using Cabair for my flying lessons

chapers1704

[Checkboard]

If you are minded to do a degree (and you can afford both degree and flying) then certainly do a degree, but don't do an aviation degree.

Do a BSc - generally respected, and gives you a teaching opportunity.
Do an MBA - generally respected, and will help later in your career should you want to "progress" to management.

If you have the marks and interest, then certainly law or economics would likewise help, and give second job prospects.

Medicine requires too much initial further training commitment to be particularly useful, IMHO.

I went to three universities, on a BSC and a BEng (Chem) and didn't finish any of them. I have never worried about not having a degree for my aviation career (I am a 15,000 hour 737 Captain) but I have regretted not completing the degree.

[AVIATION-TRAFFORD]

Hi
Trafford College Manchester offer a course for school leavers who would want to become a Commercial airline pilot. The course is free for people under 19 . This course gives you 3 A levels and covers a variety of subjects relatig to Aviation and flying. YOU DO NOT NEED A DEGREE to be be an airline pilot so dont waste your money going to university. On completion of this course CTC have taken students and they have achieved . The college even has shares in two planes at Barton City airport Manchester , the staff are occupationally competent. So don't bother messing about studying Maths and Physics A level or going to Uni just apply to trafford College
Trafford College :: (http://www.trafford.ac.uk/section/2)
good luck.

[Groundloop]

YOU DO NOT NEED A DEGREE to be be an airline pilot so dont waste your money going to university.

From the linked web-site:-

"Students may also consider progressing onto Higher Education to study a foundation degree in Aviation Management and Operations, leading to a BSC Honours with a commercial airline pilot pathway."

Bit of a mixed message here!

[AVIATION-TRAFFORD]

Hi,
Trafford College Course leaflet do indeed state that students may progress to HE with a pilot pathway.it is only right that the individual learners are offered choices.

Further Education serves students post 16 and many parents feel that at 17 their 'child' would not ready for such a huge step. It is afterall a huge responsibilty. However I reiterate that students from the Aviation studies programme at Trafford College have progressed directly to commercial flying school without going to University,passed and gained a commercial pilot licences. Both by the integrated and the modular method.

So i stand by what I say - you don't need a degree, you don't need to spend all that money and four years at Uni - unless you want to. You don't need to study A levle Maths and Science. You just need a bespoke Aviation course that is run by occupationally competent staff to help you get you into a good flying school.

[Keith.Williams.]

You just need a bespoke Aviation course that is run by occupationally competent staff to help you get you into a good flying school.

On what basis have you reached that conclusion?

The vast majority of the thousands of people who have passed through the flying schools and gone on to become commercial pilots each year have done no such course. Such courses are certainly not specified as entry requirements for any FTO that I am aware of.

It is sounds like you have an personal interest in getting people to sign up for the Trafford Course.