Ryanair TR - are there many people left who can afford it?

[Love_joy]

I recently witnessed a talk from a Ryanair recruitment manager who had the undesirable task of 'selling' the concept of buying your own job.

Oddly, the fact that you would end up paying for your own uniform, medicals, air side pass, and all with no crew meals etc.. was almost sold a company perk. Anyway, I digress.

The presentation in question was pitched to a group of CPL ME IR students who had already forked out well over £65,000 to get that far, most had parental houses, life savings and body parts riding on their success in this industry.

Many people struggle to get their foot in the door after clocking up the qualifications with honorable companies who pay for, or bond you for the training costs - leaving the alternatives like Ryanair as the only way forward.

I dont doubt, if you have the ability to get through the first few months with Ryanair on FA income, the money and the career progression is excellent. However, how many more people out there are willing to add another €31k + accomodation + expenses onto their already massive debt, especially when their is no guarantee of a permanent job at the end?

Surely, as Ryanair's demand for pilots increase with the new aircraft arrivals they will eventually have to start funded (and bonding is more than acceptable) TR courses for new arrivals... does anyone else out there think they are just pulling a fast one whilst they still can??

[ramshorn]

Hi
I was interested to hear your points on this as I am myself thinking about raising the money to try to qualify as a candidate to pay for the honour of funding my own type rating!!
I live in Bristol and RYR are soon to be opening a base here. This is a major factor in my thoughts about trying out for their TR with CAE or SAS.
Interested to hear peoples thoughts.;)

[Dakotablue]

I have also recently attended a Ryanair presentation. They make it quite clear that you could be based anywhere within Europe, whilst you complete line training (best have extra £££££'s for housing and living expenses). Even after completing that there is no guarantees of getting the base you want.

The thing that scares me most after reading the other threads,is the fact that RYR can keep you hanging around for a while after completeing the LST, with no confirmed date on the Base Check (as you only start earning a basic wage upon completion of this). I believe some pilots have been waiting just up to the 6 month limit!

[v6g]

Well I sure as hell aren't. I'm way too calculating and cautious with risk.

[skyflyer737]

There comes a time when after completing an integrated course that you've forked out £60-odd thousand for, when you've tried for several months to get a job with other more desirable carriers - when Ryanair seems like the only option. This is because it's costing you money just sitting around waiting for a job and all the time you're losing currency with no flying.

Paying about £22k for a type rating and then another grand or three on top of that for accommodation, medicals, airport pass, uniform etc is not pleasant and not something I set out to do from the start. But when all other avenues have been explored, you realise that unless you're prepared to hang around for months and months or maybe years, waiting for that dream job, you might as well dig deep one last time and go for Ryanair. A lot of people on Pprune would suggest building up hours flying a turbo prop and getting the experience that way before going straight onto a jet - but even that is far easier said than done. I tried that route and got no responses from any operator, and I have first time passes in CPL/MECR/IR.

My own experiences with Ryanair are not at all bad. It's not a dream job and I would rather have been with the likes of BA, BMI etc or someone who paid for my type rating - but all in all I can't complain as I'm flying 737-800s for a living. No the money wasn't great at the start but it's more than you're earning sitting around waiting for a job. And as type ratings go, it's not the most expensive around. GECAT (when you include base training costs) is more expensive - plus you've got a job at the end of it. Not a 100% guaranteed one but almost certainly you will have a job.

Of course lots of people will probably pick this post to threads and advise everyone out there not to touch Ryanair. All I want to say is to anyone considering it that although the expense is frustrating, all in all my experiences have been fine.

LST to base training is currently taking between 2 and 4 weeks. Base training to line training is about a week as well.

[boogie-nicey]

It's the aspect of having to 'walk in the dark', not knowing when the Base Training will take place, when the Line training will begin and of course all the Ryanair 'tactics' along the way. This makes budgeting somewhat difficult both in terms of money and time, there's no knowing how long it'll take or should you try and hang in there for an extra couple of weeks or months, just how can you budget in this respect. No one would go on holiday and then expect to receive an invoice afterwards, they'd book and pay beforehand knowing they can afford the holiday.

The rigour of Ryanair's pursuit of the law is another worry or should I say bruden, especially when it dawns on you that things are approaching full scale deflection with no end in sight.

Of course there are probably good points and I'm not dissuading anybody from going along with Ryanair but as with any walk in the dark it needs to be done with your eyes wide open. Ryanair would love to have a constant supply of pilots paying for their TRs and then working for minimal money eventually feeling fed up and leaving before a higher semi-slave salary has to be paid. Great business model from Ryanair's point of view.

One last point is the cost of the actual TR which may appear to be significant but by no means is it the only factor. People time and time again fail to factor in the cost of accomodation which cannot be ignored and is a real consideration running into thousands. The time away from home for the TR is going to rack that total up but what's really going to boost it further is the line training time, that's alot of accomodation expense with a slavish salary. If the cost of living was a relatively small expense people wouldn't see a large chunk of their salaries going on mortgages or rent. Therefore when allocating accomodation expenses you going to have pencil in a sizeable amount. This starts to bring the total cost ever higher, something to consider before hand and not on a distraction when you should be learning the line. No point being 80% prepared or "almost there", it's all or nothing. Best of luck peeps....

[jamestkirk]

Someone i used to work with is with Ryanair now and was relocated to Dublin at a moments'ish notice.

He technically works for an agency not RYR. I would asume that means no responsibility and 'let go' at anytime. On the bright side, he is getting loads of hours in.

I don't know if the above situation is true of all new F/O's so don't fire rockets at me.

[Wodka]

The solution is quite simple... If everyone stopped and said to the airlines as a collective mass of people "do you know what, we are not going to pay for ratings anymore" then the airlines would have to listen. Strength in numbers.

Getting to that position is a near on impossible task unfortunately. It would require every wannabe to sign up to the same rules of engagement (for want of a better phrase!)

The whole reason we are in this mess is because poeple keep coming along offering to pay!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh: the airlines are pissing themselves, they cant believe their luck!

Maybe we should start a campaign, a wannabes charter or something :ooh:

[-8AS]

Wodka, you are spot on. Airlines are simply businesses and follow market forces. If people are willing to cover the cost of their training why would the airline companies not let that happen. If pilot numbers dry up, market forces will dictate that a different style of pilot recruitment and retention will be required.
It is a frustrating time in the industry for people starting out, but at least there are jobs around at the moment!

[boogie-nicey]

A number of factors can be coupled to the argument regarding people so willing to undertake their own private post training. One of the primary reasons relates to cheap borrowing in terms of both property equity and unsecured loans this will of course come to an end where such funds will begin to diminish in terms of accessibility. At the same time this double edged sword also allows numerous prospective students to undertake training which would otherwise have been denied to them during the years of 'airline selection' for initial training. Once the money dries up people will begin to make nay forced to make far more reasonable plans rather than jumping on the bandwagon because "'others are doing it", "it's the industry norm"... etc.

I totally symphathise with the people who undertake this route (I am indeed one of those intended ;) but we must nevertheless distinguish between those who actually have a disciplined gameplan and those who are blindly moving onto the next step. Many are just following the crowd without asking themselves should I wait 6 months and save up, go the Ryanair route, borrow the money right now, etc. Each option is validated upon the individual's circumstances and that's where the problem lies. Not everyone is the same, some have access to alot of money due to their existing job, rich family, recent investments,money to spare going modular whereas others are struggling to pay for the MCC let alone anything beyond that. But they all rush into the post training phase thinking they'll get as much done as possible and we'll just to have see about the rest. But at this point you're now dealing with commercial organisations that want continuity and not a bit here and a bit there style of training. When personal circumstances come to bear your training starts to suffer and if on a scheme like Ryanair where they don't have any time to stop and cool off which results in the new FO failing, getting booted out or establishing a line of poverty for some years to come as they struggle to cling on like a doomed player in Vegas.

There is no simple yah or nay for the Ryanair or other schemes but like all clothes it's the glove that fits the hand, in this case your hand, one size does not fit all. Don't necessarily look at the next guy and assume wow it worked for him, so it'll work for me, not always and if things go wrong it'll be on your head. It's easy to make rash decisions when you have the money in your pocket but how would you feel with a wrong decision in tow and no money, could you recover knowing you "got it wrong" or having your employment record in this relatively small "someone always knows someone" industry tainted. Where will you get the money next time round, find the time or opportunity to go for it again. Wouldn't it be better to just sit down before hand and have planned it better and asked yourself some harsh but practical questions at the outset.

Sorry don't mean to sound harsh or too pointy (as most of you who are familiar with me know I'm quite a placid personality :O ) but just trying to give people a moment of pause in this make a decision on your toes environment. Don't get caught up in the illsuion of some kind of rush. (exmaple : like those clever know it alls who think they are side stepping the ATPLs but leanring nothing but the questions off by heart in a month or two and then later in training being shown up for knowing next to nothing. As a result they spend far longer gaining their licences/ratings if at all and possess a borderline working knowledge).

The Ryanair scheme needs to be looked at all angles and perspectives for what you really want and what your eventual aviation goal is. Simply clinging onto it because you fear being left behind is exactly the same lure of credit card companies, use the plastic to keep up with the Jones', no point. If on the otherhand you wish to opt for it then why not, but make sure everyhing is in order with your financial, family, lifestyle commiments it's all too easy thinking it'll be okay if I make some changes and hold my breath, sure but for how long?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Trust me, there is absolutely NO shortage of people willing to pay to for their TR at Ryanair.

[G-HALE]

How much in euros does a Ryanair TR cost for a newby CPL/MEIR?

[Love_joy]

How much in euros does a Ryanair TR cost for a newby CPL/MEIR?


€31,000 for the course. Approx €500-800/month for accomodation (which you have to find yourself, figures are what was quote for CAE in Amsterdam) + travel, food, uniform, etc... The initial assesment is £260.

After the TR you start your base and line training with Ryanair which they will pay for, unless you dont meet 'the grade' and they look to recover some of the costs from you. Costs are approx €20-30 per sector flown, and newbies can expect 60-120 sectors during their line training.