A-10s - Yes please

[Maple 01]

Just a quick line of thanks to the A-10 boys in the unlikley prospect that they are PPRuNing

Nice to see a two ship operating around Norwich this PM, bit lower next time please, just like old times......now if we can get some F1-11s.......

[Paracab]

Also a pair of A10s using Wainfleet today, making a horrendous noise with the cannon by all accounts. Naturally I wasn't home and missed it all.

[Razor61]

You will find the whole 81st FS based at Lakenheath for a month or two at the moment!

[Pontius Navigator]

Also a pair of A10s using Wainfleet today, making a horrendous noise with the cannon by all accounts. Naturally I wasn't home and missed it all.

Two pair twice actually and a pair of Pave Hawk.

A10 impressive? See the PH.

[wessex19]

If you want to see and hear some F-111's, head down under while their still here. I think its 2010 when they start getting paid off.:(

[Zoom]

Talking about A-10s, I was at a firepower demo on Salisbury Plain some years ago and the pongoes, who were more used to seeing Harriers and Jaguars strafing at comparatively short range, erected the seating in the usual place for us visitors to get a good view of the aircraft firing and their results. A pair of A-10s pitched up and did all of their firing some considerable distance behind us, so we missed the most exciting bits. The results were impressive, though. That's the GAU-7 for you.

[spectre150]

"now if we can get some F1-11s......."

no you can't, they're going to estonia

Pardon?

(redundant characters added to meet the 10 character minumum requirement)

[aviate1138]

Razor 61 revealed....
"You will find the whole 81st FS based at Lakenheath for a month or two at the moment!"
Aviate1138 asks...
Is their Nav capability better than it used to be???? I do hope so :)
Aviate1138

[Double Zero]

On a realistic note,

The A-10 ( with state of the art targeting systems - Litening 3 etc - and decent IFF on all concerned ) is EXACTLY the aircraft in great need by several forces right now - forget dogfighting F-22's & Typhoons !

DZ

[Doctor Cruces]

Used to work at Holbeach when the A10s were regular customers. The Avenger is awsome. I recall we used to invite visitors to experience the first strafe from the balcony outside. The idea was that we should try and estimate how high they jumped when the wall of noise hit them.

Great fun

Doc C

[Phochs3]

DZ

And there I was thinking that the Typhoon was getting Litening 3, lots of bombs and a gun.....oh well, back to dogfighting

[Double Zero]

'a' gun maybe - but not THE gun - and which is hardened for ground fire ?

[Squirrel 41]

Which raises the question (AGAIN!!) why the GR7/9 hasn't been modded to take the Equalizer (sp!) after the cancellation (failure?) of ADEN 25!!!

Yours grumpily,

S41

[Pontius Navigator]

Wonder who decided 25mm for the Aden from the earlier 30mm and why the Mauser uses 27mm?

Was the later to use captured Russian ammuntion or the other way about?

Was the change from 30 - 25 'cause it was 16% less therefore would save 16% in the budget? :}

Or were both space/weight saving?

But if 20mm was good enough for the world's largest air force was it necessary to specify equipment that could not be off the shelf?

[Double Zero]

I photographed the whole sorry development of the 25mm.

The idea was it would fire bursts a lot faster than the untrendy 30mm.

The HUD had a burst counter / limiter which I thought a good idea.

Snag was the metallurgy wasn't up to the ( flawed ) theory, so it fired it's own innards along with the shell - they didn't develop the gatling gun all those years ago for no reason - barrel cooling .

Dunsfold armoury tried valiantly but the thing was a lemon.

I completely agree the GAU-12 should be fitted, but that would be admitting to a cock-up, wouldn't it ?!

The 'gun pods' were used for ECM gear for a while, but now that seems to have gone, leaving just strakes.

[Green Flash]

Any chance of flying the Mighty 'Bolt at RIAT please? I see you are down as statics but that manouverability(sp) is allways appreciated. See how many Follow Me trucks you can draw a bead on?!:ok:

[Squirrel 41]

00,

Very interesting, many thanks. Does this mean that GR7/9s are able to carry GAU-12, and if not, what modification would be required?

S41

[Double Zero]

Your guess is as good as mine, obviously it would need the mechanical & electrical attachments, but seeing as the GR5 ( from which all the 7's & 9's are adapted ) was meant to carry gunpods, can't see it would take much effort.

I wouldn't mind betting it's been seriously considered, then whoever was doing the considering got slapped on the wrist for political reasons, mainly company rather than nationally.

Royal Ordnance, who came up with the thing, had just been absorbed by BAe at the time.

We even had mahogany gunpods full of cameras on the GR5 trials !

For that matter,there must be a lot of 30mm Aden packs around, why not use them ? Can't believe they couldn't be made to fit. Not as trendy in terms of rate of fire - the Aden itself was a development of a WW2 German gun - but it's still something not to be on the wrong end of.

I know we're not supposed to mention other websites, but if you were to put 'Harrier' into a search engine, find a large UK site ( brilliantly done by Michael Pryce ) then go to the history section, then scroll to 'Harrier Testing' you might find my masterpiece with relevant photo's...

[L J R]

The Hog was designed as a jet AROUND its gun - ie 'We have a gun, so lets design a platform around it'. Result - A-10 (THE most requested air asset in Theatre right now) To consider strapping one to an existing airframe is simply asking for trouble.
BTW - I thought that the Typhoon was going to the 'stan in July 08...I hear that your viffing dudes have all been burnt out - as have the jets.

[Double Zero]

Well apart from the A-10 - a great aircraft but in dire need of 21st century avionics, which I understand it's getting now - we used to work alongside them at West Freugh -

A lot of aircraft have guns 'hung on' - seemed to work well on the Harrier 1, as quite a few Argentinian pilots & troops will affirm.

The Hawk does well with a single 30mm gunpod too ( built in Mauser 27mm on the Hawk 200 ) - during a sales tour Jim Hawkins hit a can on a post with a single shot.

( with an A-10 even the previous existence of the post would be a matter of debate ! )

[buoy15]

Saw a promotion of the WartHog in the earlier days - the sound and effect of that gattling gun was VERY impressive - 20mm of spent uranium at 6000 rpm will definitely make your eyes water if your sitting in a tank
I was told a 5 second burst takes 30 kts off the TAS
Could be handy during a flapless landing

[GreenKnight121]

Ummm... the A-10's GAU-8 fires 30mm rounds @ 4,200 rds/min, not 20mm @ 6,000 rds/min.

projectile weights:
30mm - 390 grams
20mm - 98 grams

[BEagle]

27.3 kg/sec

OUCH!!

[Bigwings]

Here you go folks, a few snaps of the beast

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007141.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007113.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007095.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007089.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007036.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Bigwings8/RAFLakenheath81stFSA-102007012.jpg

Bigwings ;)

[Mick Strigg]

2 x A10s going to Yeovilton Air Day on 7 July. A chance to get to see them up close and personal!

[cornish-stormrider]

best I buy some ticketses my precious! Any word on whether the Delta Lady will be there? or has it slipped again?

[airborne_artist]

No mention of the Vulcan on the official page (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.5020)

[MadsDad]

Remember a few years ago, living in deepest Suffolk (just south of BSE) in the only house for 1/2 mile in any direction. I was on the first floor, heard a noise, looked out of the window and saw a pair of A10s coming across the field straight at me!

They climbed, flew over over the house, then dropped down to low-level again across the next field.

[Buccaneer Nav]

We still do send them outside and they still jump.

[Engines]

Double Zero and others, some info on the Aden 25, which I had a little to do with before it got canned.

The idea was it would fire bursts a lot faster than the untrendy 30mm.

The HUD had a burst counter / limiter which I thought a good idea.

Snag was the metallurgy wasn't up to the ( flawed ) theory, so it fired it's own innards along with the shell - they didn't develop the gatling gun all those years ago for no reason - barrel cooling .

Dunsfold armoury tried valiantly but the thing was a lemon.

I's gently disagree that the Aden 25 was 'flawed' or a 'lemon'.

The gun was developed in the late 80s/early 90s by RO to use the then new 25mm NATO round (used by the Bradley and the GAU-12), to give much greater hitting power at longer range. It was a redesign of the Aden 30mm, which was in turn a straight clone of a Mauser 30mm cannon developed at the end of WW2. It turned into a very big redesign, using percussion firing (Aden 30 is electrical) and going at about 1850 rounds per min. Muzzle velocity about twice that of the Aden 30, so significant issues with power and recoil. RO basically couldn't make it work, so it was handed on to a small company (now defunct) based in Ascot, who did a great job of getting it right. On test, it worked a dream, and it remains the world's fastest firing percussion fire cannon. Also very low mechanical wear, and easy servicing, plus low cost rounds. All on schedule and within budget.

However.. the bad news was that the gun development was separate from the pod, and this included the ammo feeds. This led to severe problems with gun jams, but these were, IMHO, fixable. There were also issues with spent links hitting the aircraft, but this was a long known design feature. BAE tried adding great big bulges to catch them, but it always looked like a dodgy solution. By contrast, GD developed the GAU-12 gun and pod together, and this is certainly the right way to go. (They developed a great linkless feed, which avoids the spent link issue).

Metallurgy - there were certainly problems with barrel wear, just like any high rate of fire gun. The answer was the burst limiter, just like the French, US and Soviets have on comparable guns. At normal burst patterns, they were getting decent barrel life.

Gatling guns certainly do have less problems with barrel wear, but due to low rate of fire per barrel, not barrel cooling per se. Gatlings are great, as long as you can stand the weight, and power consumption. The other big advantage of revolver cannon like the Aden is that you get max rate from the first round of the burst - Gatlings spend quite a few rounds getting up to speed. Drives probability of hit way up on short bursts.

Before it was cancelled, I heard a senior Czech gun designer (who did the 30mm for the Flanker) say that the Aden 25 was 'an excellent and revolutionary gun'. Some people never got any credit for that. :(

In the end, the Aden 25 was cancelled by Air Staffs who were quite clear that guns were no longer required 'in any foreseeable circumstances'. Right.

Bottom line - a fine UK company did a great job in developing a very decent bit of kit, and we failed to get it properly integrated onto the platform. But a 'flawed lemon'? No.

Engines

[rognjac1]

I was under the impression that all USAF A10 Warthogs left the UK upon the closure of the Bentwaters/Woodbridge bases a few years back. Today I saw 3 A10s over Cambridgeshire heading in the Mildenhall/Lakenheath direction. Are A10s based in the UK again, can anyone tell me?

[west lakes]

Have a look in the Military Forum. The earlier posts apply, but lots of info also on cannons

[Sentry Agitator]

Like most NATO forces our American brothers like to deploy out of area once and a while to get some valuable training from unfamiliar surroundings. The nearest European Hogs I'm aware of are based at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany but they could be over from the States.

The UK is pretty well sorted with low level airspace and available bombing ranges so it makes sence for them to be here.

I wish I'd known they were deployed earlier though.....we could have got some valuable JPR trg scheduled?

SA

The mighty Hog is expected to make an appearance at the Waddo airshow this weekend as well.

It's all here:
http://www.lakenheath.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123056556

[hobie]

Did I hear there were one or two over at the same Air Show as the 'Merlin dropped a door' thread ? ..... :confused:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281424

[Regie Mental]

The A-10s did indeed withdraw from the UK many years ago. In it's heyday the 81stTFW/FW had six squadrons of the beast co-located at Bentwaters and Woodbridge (with four forward operating locations in Germany).

Today one unit remains, namely the 81stFS at Spangdahlem. The runway there is currently being relaid so the 81st will operate from Lakenheath for a few weeks. No doubt the East Coast ranges are in for a bit of a pasting.

[gareth herts]

They were also based at Alconbury for a time I seem to remember.

[Doctor Cruces]

Dunno about five second bursts. The A-10 drivers who used to visit would claim that they were only to fire two sec burst or the barrel would expand with the heat and accuracy would be similar to a Stirling SMG!! They did lose a good few knots even in a two second burst.

Saw a pair playing on STANTA as I drove home the other night.
As "Uncle Roger" used to say "Ahhh, the sweet nostalgia".

Doc C

[WHBM]

I can recall a pair coming low level up the Thames past London City one weekday afternoon in the late 1980s. Half an hour later they went back down again. It seemed a most unlikely sortie.

[MostlyHarmless]

Indeed - I didn't know there was a TACAN down there...

[Weasel123]

BIGWINGS - So you must be one of those people crowding the roadside at Lakenheath over the past couple of days that have a tendency of jumping into the path of my car!! :}

[Double Zero]

Engines,

with all due respect I can only recount what I heard & saw !

It did indeed spit it's innards out at the gun butts - though I am aware there was a snag with the pod design too.

Link strikes caused a lot of ( probably uneccessary ) worry as carbon fibre was regarded an unknown quantity - so the ( metal ) aft fuselage of ZD319, the test GR5 involved, was painted white to show strikes and 'my' cameras pointed at the composite tailplane, which was the real area of concern.

I don't remember link collection on that gun, only for the Swiss Hawk 30mm Aden - seems the 'green' Swiss are happy to spray shells around but not links & casings !

The gun didn't ever consistently work properly as far as I remember - there were also 'discussions' about the method of shell counting used by Instrumentation, most people thought acoustic recording would have been better.

It didn't work, which seems to me to count for 'lemon' status, as rather obviously evidenced by the fact it never got into service - the big question should still be " what are we going to fit instead ?"

It's unfortunately convenient weight - wise to discard a gun ( or two ) when already hot & high - even if it would be jolly useful !

[Bigwings]

Guilty as charged Weasel, twas I snapping away, but jumping in front of cars...not me sir :eek:

Bigwings :)