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paolylo
21st Jun 2007, 12:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msRz7-oiYrI

basically it's saying that this school will train the first Multi-Crew Pilot License holders in the world... a 12-month program worth $75000 (roughly 4 million Philippine Pesos).

cheers and enjoy the video!

:ok:

airfoil
21st Jun 2007, 13:59
nice vid!:D:D

*sigh* i really wanted to go in that school.. huhuhu.

pfd99
22nd Jun 2007, 02:24
Much less than 4 million now with the exchange rate.

paolylo
22nd Jun 2007, 04:13
Php45.90 to a USD

so that's Php3,442,500 when converted to USD as opposed to Php3,700,000 if a would-be local cadet pays it in full. the blessed locals who are being sponsored by Cebu Pacific pay half (Php1,850,000) and that's exclusive of the miscelaneous fees such as accomodation, meals, and other services (laundry, extra uniform orders).

it wasn't that long ago when it was about Php53 to a dollar.

pumping iron
22nd Jun 2007, 05:34
Quote: nice vid!:D:D

*sigh* i really wanted to go in that school.. huhuhu.
____________________________________________________________ ____

Hi airfoil,

go & finish your degree first then come here... we believe sponsorship from cebu pacific will not end soon.... this place is a great school, one of the high standards school.... and cebu pacific's cadetship program is one of the best opportunities which sprung here in philippines...

keep aiming high!!!:ok:

cheers!!!

Smiling_Goat
22nd Jun 2007, 05:40
hey pumping iron,

are you sponsored by cebu pacific? is it a tough sponsorship to get?

when do you graduate from CIA?

paolylo
22nd Jun 2007, 06:33
no one has graduated from CIA just yet. there are 5 batches so far (i've seen a few guys passing by to take the assessment for the 6th) and the first batch will finish their training between December and January.

sponsorship from Cebu Pacific won't end anytime soon. depending on their demand for pilots, other cadets who are already in CIA and haven't got a contract with Cebu Pacific will be interviewed for sponsorship along with the ones who recently got accepted at CIA and also want to be sponsorsed. the full-paying (mostly foreigners) cadets would be recommended by the school to other airlines with needs for Airbus A320 pilots as well.

kurimaw
22nd Jun 2007, 07:55
i'm also be a wannabe pilot here....


i've watched the recent video about the school....very impressive
very high standard and very high tuition fee.....


in just 12months....you're already a pilot of A320


can i ask some questions here about the MPL cadet pilot program in cebupac...and some confusing regulations of this kind of license....


what is the payment system of this kind of program? can i pay the 1,750,000 after the training(start of 5yrs bond) or pay it during the 12month training....


i have the book of the air laws of ATO.....
i read about the pilot license system
the only license recognized by the ATO is the
A.O 121 and A.O 135 ATPL license


and it is not indicated the "MPL" license system....
although it is approved already in ATO.....
i ask the ATO about this but they dont have the new laws about this kind of license...


can i ask how really MPL works?
and what is the legality of this kind of license....
and how can i guarantee that this kind of license can support my family and prolong my career...?


1. what is the full requirements of this kind of license....?
2. how many hours should i earn to have this kind of weird license...?
3. can be this license used in other airline companies?
4. can be this kind of license can be the same as the ATPL license..?
5. if this kind of license includes the IFR rating?
6. can i be promoted as a captain with this kind of license..?
7. how can i assure that a airline will not give discriminations of this kind of license?
8. can i act as a pilot-in-command wheter cessna or airbus?
9. if the license expires, can i take a ATPL exam instead of MPL?
10. can i get a prerequisites if i take the ATPL exam? instead of MPL?
11. if i have a logbook how can i expain to the examiner that i've logged in high-performanced jet in 5,000hrs. but only 70hrs of light aircraft?
and allow me to take a ATPL exams..?


i've read the info that a person has this kind of license...
you can be a F/O...but you cannot act as a pilot-in-command in a cessna!

can someone clarify on it?



although it is a very good facilities in clark institute of aviation....
including the training.....


but how can i assure that this kind of license will give me a good chance and have a good career....


and how really convincing that this kind of license will have a sure seat not only in cebupac...but also in other airlines companies......?


i hope that someone will have a very good answers to my questions....
to convince anyone to enter this profession and assurance of the future as a pilot wannabe...


thanks and happy flying

airfoil
22nd Jun 2007, 09:03
:):) thanks pumping iron! i'm graduating as a/c maintenance technician and planning to go there as soon as i finish the A&P exam and hoping that the CebPac sponsorhip won't end soon.
Godspeed everyone!

kurimaw
22nd Jun 2007, 09:38
airfoil??



were u studying?? what course???

mingalababya
22nd Jun 2007, 10:27
can i ask how really MPL works?
and what is the legality of this kind of license....

Here's some info about it from the ICAO website (http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#31).

airfoil
22nd Jun 2007, 12:10
airfoil??

were u studying?? what course???

yap, 2 yrs. AMT.. ikaw?

dj852
22nd Jun 2007, 12:27
pumping iron

bro! ts been a while. hows training? your school is garnering a lot of attention in that case more of your like (CADET PILOTS) will be trained there. as for me ive tried my luck in pal av school.

all the best to us,
dj

kurimaw
22nd Jun 2007, 13:22
ATC....2yr course din...


what school?

paolylo
23rd Jun 2007, 01:45
rave: i'll be interviewed for sponsorship next week! wish me luck...
rant: knowing our ground instructor, he'd prolly wanna have us back at Clark immediately after the interview so as not to miss a beat in the lesson flow. at CIA, if someone gets delayed... the whole class will have to wait for him/her to be on the same pace. a lot of catching up work to do by missing a day.

pumping iron
24th Jun 2007, 12:23
pumping iron

bro! ts been a while. hows training? your school is garnering a lot of attention in that case more of your like (CADET PILOTS) will be trained there. as for me ive tried my luck in pal av school.

all the best to us,
dj
____________________________________________________________ ____

Hi dj852! how are you bro??? long time it is...it's busy down here and it's stressfull...
Paolylo was right, if 1 person misses 1 exam, the whole class will not move forward for the next lesson until everyone have set their foot on the next line...

God bless to you dj852!!! hope to hesr more form you bro once you get the result from PAL Av sch...

Cheers!!!



Paolylo, bro which course are you from???
God Bless to your interview with cebu pac okay!!!:ok:

dj852
24th Jun 2007, 13:35
pumping iron

im so nervous man, im not so sure with my ending. i hope ts good naman.:ok:.

good luck on your training. safe flights.

paolylo
24th Jun 2007, 15:47
@pumping iron
haha.. check this week's notice board for names, mine should be there.


PAL Av School is great but unfortunately the management rarely (dare i say never) accepts relatives of former PAL pilots who left for another airline. not having to wait 6 months was also a huge factor since there would be a batch each month at CIA and the classrooms are enough for people undergoing ground school.

i'm just glad for the opportunity to even be considered by CebuPac for a sponsorship & a 3 year contract.

Cheers!
:ok:

kurimaw
25th Jun 2007, 06:06
pumping iron......


can i ask some questions???



what are the requirements needed to apply the cadet program in cebupac??



what is the payment system of the training??? can be paid after the training(start of 5yr bond as a F/O) or during the 12month traning??



right now....i'm having my OJT as a A/C maintenance...


and my plan is to take the assessment test in CIA after i grad to my course...next year


can you give some advices for this......



thanks and happy flying...

paolylo
25th Jun 2007, 06:49
@happy flying boy kurimaw

CebuPac has no cadet program. they just happen to have a number of vacancies for pilots at the moment and they have partnered with CIA in training their current pilots by using CIA's Airbus simulator and in giving some CIA cadets a sponsorship. as far as CIA is concerned, they will recommend you to CebuPac for a sponsorship if you did well in the assessment.

as for the payment, the assessment is Php10K. if you've made it assuming you've received a sponsorship and opted not to pay Php1.85M one time... the installment is Php537,500 upon enrollment, and 3 more payments of Php437,500 after 30, 60, and 120 days payable by cash or check. if you won't be sponsored or won't be even offered to be sponsored, it's double the cost... Php3.7M or $75K

i do suggest for you to check from time to time the status of Cebu Pacific's pilot vacancies. the sponsorships are on a limited first-come first-serve basis so if Cebu Pacific doesn't need anymore pilots, you'd have to wait for another season of pilot vacancies. for the assessment, brush up on english sentence completion and advanced algebra... there's also an annoying video game section where it will test your hand-eye coordination, listening comprehension, and focus.

kurimaw
27th Jun 2007, 11:16
thanks for the info paolylo....



i hope that next year....they open again some opportunities....

airfoil
30th Jun 2007, 03:40
thanks paolylo!
i really need that infos.. :D:D

pfd99
30th Jun 2007, 08:04
I read this in the Philippine Star newspaper, i think it answers a lot of questions. According to sources 40 more sponsorship places are available with 50% of the course cost covered by Cebu Pacific.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9497289@N03/668654574/

pfd99

paolylo
30th Jun 2007, 13:11
@airfoil
you're welcome :ok:


OT:
i read CIA's website again, i stand corrected on the simulator. Gokongwei owns it and CIA helps in maintaining it & training the pilots who will use it.

pfd99
5th Jul 2007, 07:19
Have been told they are now recruiting for the next course starting August 06th. I was advised that if you pass all the criteria you can get 50% sponsorship from CebuPac. Good luck to you all. Check the advert again in my previous post.

pfd99

kurimaw
5th Jul 2007, 10:58
pfd99


i ask if the CIA offers other payment scheme system...??


pay the P1,750,000 for 2yrs above??

paolylo
8th Jul 2007, 07:52
@an2ni

yup, i got a sponsorship. good luck with your application. if you're absolutely certain of being accepted in CIA, i recommend that you accomplish the ATO medical clearance as soon as possible... it's advisable to take your blood chemistry and ecg stress test elsewhere. the ATO doctor is in every weekdays from 10-12 for the checkup.

an2ni
8th Jul 2007, 14:09
@paolylo

how long did it took you to finish your medical? thanks

lee_apromise
30th Jul 2007, 04:49
I'm really interested about this organisation. On their brochure, there's a job guarentee after you complete A320 TR and base training.

People say it's too good to be true. what do you think?

planestupid
30th Jul 2007, 07:13
with 200 hours + 320 type rating + Clark Training = a very big disaster!! The only reason a company would hire a pilot with that low experience is coz they cost less. Lets face it.... it isn't because it is safer! It isn't because they are the nicest people in the world!!! Its because it costs less. I'm not saying the best pilot trainee couldn't do it... i'm saying that the majority of pilot trainees with that kind of experience would be a liability to the safety of the flight. At best the FO would be a passenger... being so far behind the aircraft that it would be over before it started. There are reasons for minimum flight time.
Nothing is guarenteed in the world, especially when it comes to Aviation. So when reading a brochure on the Clark institute... take it with grain of salt.. examine your options carefully coz as the saying goes... if it sounds too good to be true, IT USUALLY IS!!

Left Wing
30th Jul 2007, 09:16
if it sounds too good to be true, IT USUALLY IS!!....... and how many countires accept the MPL as yet...

Mach086
30th Jul 2007, 11:32
lively debate is occuring on the Pilot Wannabe forum under the topic of "MPL - Is it Mickey Mouse?".

I started the debate going and whilst i've received a lot of constructive comments, bot for and against, it's still something I'm weighing up.

paolylo
30th Jul 2007, 11:58
@an2ni

with the ATO medicals, you can do the treadmill stress test and blood chemistry (ask the ATO clinic what you'll specifically need) elsewhere... everything else must be completed in their clinic. you'd have to wait one week for the results of the drug test and the treadmill stress test so it should take a week if everything else goes smoothly as planned.

paolylo
30th Jul 2007, 12:28
i believe i've already started a thread on this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281010)topic

requesting moderator to merge this thread with the link above.

@lee_apromise - i'll send you a pm about it.

as i've mentioned in other threads, i'm not in a position to defend or critique the MPL since i've only been in ground school at Clark for a couple of months and our first batch of cadets are still waiting to fly our school's light aircraft (http://www.alphaaviation.co.nz/aircraft.asp). Cebu Pacific Airlines truly believes in the potential of the MPL because it's in their business interests. pioneering? let's just wait how my upper batch colleagues will do when they take to the skies early next year.

we're less than 80 cadets here and growing each month... there are the foreigners, the loyal Cebu Pac employees that qualified for the sponsorship, and those whose benefactors could afford the tuition (including the would-be 2nd generation pilots, don't ask why some of us didn't go to PAL Av School instead) who are also sponosored by Cebu Pacific.

those who wish to castigate Clark Aviation and the MPL may do so in the thread provided by Mach086.

Cheers!

Left Wing
30th Jul 2007, 16:12
and how many countires accept the MPL as yet... its a simple queston and want Clark to give a simple answer...

slatch
30th Jul 2007, 21:09
Well Australia is on its way to approving it. All early students of all of the MPL schools will be closely monitored during and after they complete the program by the international aviation community. After the first classes graduate and they start flying we will see if the program has any value. 12 months of training is alot of time if the program is well thought out and presents the right information.

http://casa.gov.au/fcl/multicrew/index.htm

paolylo
31st Jul 2007, 00:25
it's already approved here in the Philippines; however our aviation autorities are still keeping a close eye on the training as this is the first of its kind in the world (Clark's ground school is based on JAA APTL courses by Bristol Groundschool in the UK, we'll only have 70 hours of light aircraft using Alpha Robins, and it's the CAE A320 simulator all the way until we get rated to fly the Airbus A320)

SAD IN QAC
31st Jul 2007, 15:53
any one got a problem with MPL course ?? or clark aviation??

PM me who got a problem

ZFT
1st Aug 2007, 01:59
I really believe that many people are shooting from the hip.

1) The MPL concept was an ICAO initiative to address the very real problem of a shortage of correctly trained airline pilots. This programme was the end result of around 20+ member states so by inference, 20+ member states will approve it.
2) Clark and Alteon are running MPL programmes that exceed the ICAO requirements
3) Comments such as “200 hours + 320 ( or any other ) type rating = disaster are just plain ridiculous. Airlines such as British Airways and Lufthansa have been doing just this for over 20 years, albeit in the more traditional training format.
4) All MPL programmes and students are being and will be more closely monitored than any other student has ever been/will ever be.
5) Where this idea that the MPL is a cheap solution comes from is beyond me. In most environments it could actually cost more. It’s prime objectives are time savings and competency, not $$$$
6) Just how successful the MPL will be is still uncertain as of course no MPL license has yet been issued. However if the MPL isn’t a success, there are going to be a lot of airframes parked up in deserts as no one else has come up with an alternative solution to address the pilot shortage and possibly a more critical shortage, that of flight instructors. Asia has the problem now. Europe is not far behind. Because of their unique GA situation the US may be able to survive without changing training philosophies, but at least Clark, Alteon and others are doing something.

dream747
1st Aug 2007, 02:09
Have a read here as well regarding the MPL.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285139

PosClimb
2nd Aug 2007, 02:22
Just how successful the MPL will be is still uncertain as of course no MPL license has yet been issued. However if the MPL isn’t a success, there are going to be a lot of airframes parked up in deserts as no one else has come up with an alternative solution to address the pilot shortage


I have my doubts about the whole thing. I often wonder if the whole MPL concept was dreamed up on the basis of false information.

MPL's are for future FO's.... But where is the shortage of FO's in the world, the place where there just aren't any left to hire? Or you can't find an expat to do the job?

If there is a shortage, it's of highly experienced, highly specialized pilots such as TRE and TRI.. Not 250 hour FO's.

So I just don't see why we need this program.

There is no shortage of FO's wanting to work.

Just look at the wait list to get on an Eagljet program... Pay to work for free.

paolylo
2nd Aug 2007, 03:40
^ no disrespect to pilots from the Philippine Air Force who have gone commercial, but even with them... there is still still a demand for pilots since PAL and Cebu Pacific ordered a total of more than 20 long haul and medium range aircraft due in the next few years.

why hire an expat to fly in the Philippines if they would easily refuse a take home salary of less than $1.5K/month? company policies reluctant in hiring expats perhaps? i'm not sure what the situation is in India.

airbrake23
11th Aug 2007, 00:57
just want to share
1. MPL is ICAO inititative. MPL is not yet recognize here in the Philippines to be clear. Air Transportaion Office (ATO) is aware of the ICAO regulation but it is subject to host country acceptance to be legally binding and recognized. SO far, theres no papers from ATO recognizing MPL. So the license issue is still in limbo.
2. Cebu PAC (flight operations department per se) does not believe in this Clark Institute Aviation MPL concept. This scholarship program is the brainchild of the Cebu PAC senior consultant Mr Brian Hogan to address pilot exodus from CEBU PAC. He's not an aviation enthusiast, yet he decide absurd things w/out thinking . to tell you the truth Pao, Flight OPS is in limbo on how to accept this inexperienced and safety risk MPL graduates to the line.
3. To other MPL students, job opportunities for you guys are very limited although you are A-320 sim rated. No airlines will accept you because of your experience level.it happen before in Europe and Middle East with the S.O.and 3rd officer from PAL and Cathay.
4. To parents and interested students palnning to go to Clark Institute Aviation, think over. The prospect may be bright due to the A-320 openings all over the world but this only applies for an already pilots, experienced pilots that is holder of Commercial Pilot License or ATPL but not MPL. You might put into waste your 3M pesos. You must need to monitor and watch out how will the graduates of the 1st batch of MPL students will fare and survive in the aviation business. Be aware that CIA has not delivered what it promises to make you A-320 certified within 1 year. Until now, the 1st batch with are almost a year in training is still on its ground trng phase and not yet in flying portion. Everybody is affected down the line.The prospect now is not on tyhe horizon. And parents, please dont believe on the advertisement on newspapers that guarantee you employment at ceb PAc, its a big no no.it is marketing strategy on the part of the school to entice students. Cebu pac might have scholars there (an error admitted by Mr Hogan), but the issue on how to integrate the graduates into the line is creating boardroom battle among the top mgmt in the company.

Till here.

219joochiat
11th Aug 2007, 22:08
No there is no reason "for minimum fligh time"!
Air France, Singapore, British Airways, Lufthansa....they all have cadets starting their career with roughly 200hrs total...and they don't crash everyother night.
It's all a matter of
1-initial selection
2-quality training
2-selection based solely on skills
3-follow up during each and every step of their young carrer!
Cheers!

airbrake23
11th Aug 2007, 23:55
219,

Yes, these airlines have pilots who started there career with only 200hrs flight time but dont forget the fact that they are admitted only as 2nd Officer or Flight engineer (being the 3rd crew) on wide body aircraft such as 747-400, A-330/340. They only do the Pilot Not Flying (PNF) duties meaning radio and paper works but not the handling. This is to let them gained timed, be familiarizes and be exposed to the workload in the cockpit.These set up works on wide bodied airline but not in the case of a narrow body aircraft such as a-320 which is designed for a 2 man operating crew wherein PF and PNF role interchange with each other.Give me proof wherein a student pilot with such no. of hours were given immediate co-pilot duties in A-320/330/340, Boeing 737, 777, 767, 757 in these airlines.

thrust clb
12th Aug 2007, 04:24
When we did our A320 full-course training with Airbus in Miami in 2005 most of the first batch of Cbupac ex-Dc9 pilots had at least 4000hours of flying time, about 2500 of which were on Dc9's. We all had an incredibly hard time coping up with the steep learning curve. And most had to have extra sessions on the sims and really barely passed the final check.:uhoh: It was really that HARD! I even said to myself that this will be the last Aircraft Type rating im doing and i'll be happy to fly 320's until retirement.

And it wasn't only us pinoys who was getting pummeled, there were Mexicans, Indians and Americans who all agreed that this Plane is the hardest to learn in their careers. When I did my upgrade training in Minneapolis, the shuttle bus driver said that the only time he's seen grown men cry was when they were unsuccessful in passing the 320 transition courses. And these were NWA pilots with thousands of hours on previous generation jets.

So what im saying is...if pilots with THOUSANDS of hours of real Jet time have a hell of a time getting to pass a 320 qualification course, how can someone with 70 hours on a single-engine plane barely faster than a BMW 3-series be sharp enough to pass? If ever he does pass...can you honestly say it is safe for him to sit on the right seat with 178 paying passengers at the back?:rolleyes: Oh well...let's just wait and see when the first CIA MPL graduates show up on the line. Who knows?

squarecrow
12th Aug 2007, 05:28
The Airlines I have been involved with Training Ab Initio approved courses are BA and MAS these are specially structured courses.
At MAS the course graduates when I was involved with training came out with CPL/IR frozen ATPL. Normally they went to 737 fleet not as radio operators but Junior FO's flying duties as such. The course is structured for that reason. The MPL seems awful short though.

yellowbirdy
14th Aug 2007, 11:50
Hi,

Can anyone tell me if there are any Singaporeans taking the cadet pilot course in Clark?

Also is the sponsorship program applicable to foreign students at Clark? :)

Thanks.

219joochiat
14th Aug 2007, 22:37
"Yes, these airlines have pilots who started there career with only 200hrs flight time but dont forget the fact that they are admitted only as 2nd Officer or Flight engineer (being the 3rd crew) on wide body aircraft such as 747-400, A-330/340. They only do the Pilot Not Flying (PNF) duties meaning radio and paper works but not the handling. "

Wrong!
You are a cadet with Air France, you will start as FO on the A320 as PF every other leg.
Same with Qantas cadets at JSA!

elac2
15th Aug 2007, 03:04
As i am aware there are variety of foreign students already at Clark including nationals from:
Singapore
Bahrain and UAE
Malaysia
Portugal
India
Philippines

They advised that the course is open to any person and they will assist in visas for the study period.Good luck!!

SIDSTAR
18th Aug 2007, 18:14
Airbrake23,
I'm afraid you're not correct when you state that these 200 hr pilots only perform non-handling duties with their airlines. For many years, some of the most advanced airlines in the world have been training their own cadets and putting them into the RHS of a modern jet as co-pilots who are fully approved to do all handling and non-handling duties as soon as they have been line-checked. Think of companies such as virtually all the major Eurpoean ones, BA, Air France, Lufthansa, SAS etc plus all the LCCs such as Easyjet and Ryanair. None of them have had any problem with the level of experience - they just ensure that the new co-pilot is trained to the required standard and then he/she just gets on with the job of doing the 'real learning' on the line. Only in parts of Asia (large parts I'm afraid) and Africa is there a reluctance to do the same. In the USA and Australia, there tends to be a progression from air taxi, to freight to commuter to airline but even there Qantas has had 200 hr cadets for years. It's not unusual at all in the rest of the world. Strangely, these parts of the world also have the best accident rates.

However, I would caution any young person (and any parent who might have to finance it) considering the MPL route to be very very careful. The licence is NOT YET RECOGNISED by most countries and it may be extremely difficult to get a job unless one is sponsored by an airline with a 'job guarantee' at the end of the course. Also, the quality and reputation of both the flying school and the authority that approves it must be critically examined. Had Clark Aviation been around long enough for either of these criteria to be met? And why is a UK company setting up this new process in The Philippines? Why not under the auspices of the UK CAA (even if they wanted to take advantage of lower costs in Clark)?

ZFT
18th Aug 2007, 21:36
And why is a UK company setting up this new process in The Philippines? Why not under the auspices of the UK CAA (even if they wanted to take advantage of lower costs in Clark)?


I’d hazard a guess that lack of suitable airspace, unpredictable weather and of course Asia is where the problems is would be high on list, and you cannot ignore cost.



http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3483395)

vinciboy
24th Aug 2007, 12:57
Hi Guys,

Just out of curiosity, how much actual flying time a C.I.A. student will get after he/she graduates?

Thanks and Regards,
Vince

an2ni
26th Aug 2007, 04:58
Hi Guys,

Just out of curiosity, how much actual flying time a C.I.A. student will get after he/she graduates?

Thanks and Regards,
Vince

70 hours on alpha.

Passenger 07
26th Aug 2007, 05:13
To Sidstar

There is a huge difference on the theoretical syllabus and on the Flight training between the European System (JAA) and the FAA system. As you have noticed Major US Airlines recruit experienced pilots (+ University diplomas in Aviation or US AF well trained pilot), the only US experience of AB-Initio cadets was in 2000 but has been interrupted by the events of 09/11 and it appears it was not very successful.
Yes there is an European know-how, quite sophisticated and formalised in the JAA licence. So, before comparing Low Hours cadets, you have to take into account also this important difference in standards. Also, the failure rate is quite high in Europe, in some Asian countries, such a failure rate is not acceptable as per cultural environment.

azrealmarican
26th Aug 2007, 15:05
hey guys now ICAO sets that the MPL course requires 70 hours of core flying thus PPL is issued! PIC is not impossible.

neway i am goin to join the Clark aviation after completion of my national service.ciaos!!

neway guys shuld i go fer the MPL course or shud i go for FAA CPL / IR and then work as a flight instructor for a year?

pls advise.

azrealmarican
26th Aug 2007, 15:09
Do airlines really hire MPL graduates? as FO or SO?

neway i am goin to join the Clark aviation after completion of my national service.

neway guys shuld i go fer the MPL course or shud i go for FAA CPL / IR and then work as a flight instructor for a year?


pls advise

vinciboy
28th Aug 2007, 13:38
Hi Guys,

Thanks. Good luck to all of students who are enrolled at C.I.A.

Blue Skies and Regards,
Vince

Passenger 07
28th Aug 2007, 14:19
To azrealmarican

I do not think you can add easily a FI rating on a MPL licence... I do not think it is in the planned scenario... Any opinion about that?

azrealmarican
29th Aug 2007, 10:42
FI that does go with MPL.

the question was shuld i go and get a MPL license

OR

Go for the traditional CPL/IR then and instructor for a year than apply for a job?

airfoil
2nd Sep 2007, 15:40
ey, where is this ATO clinic located???
will it be possible to take the medical test from other clinics?

lee_apromise
3rd Sep 2007, 01:11
In the end, I opted to go for CPL + IR in Canada or USA.
I thought "hmm....job guarantee with MPL, sounds awesome" and I e-mailed clark, Rick Norman's reply came through saying "Nothing is fully guarenteed"

I'm just gonna stick with old way and get employed in LCC in Korea with TT250. This is my plan.

Eiffle2
4th Sep 2007, 07:05
Hi Guys sori for changing the topic a little bit. Does anyone know how much for a A320 type rating with CIA?

And whats the status at CIA? Is the MPL course under way, heard as of now they only have 1 A/C and the courses might be delayed a liitle bit

regards
eiffle2

Mach086
7th Sep 2007, 07:13
Where did you hear that the course could be delayed?

hopeful_pilot
7th Sep 2007, 17:27
hi, on the clark aviation website, the cost of the MPL program is stated to be USD75,000, and the program will be completed in 12 mths.. it goes on to say that this is actually a very gd deal for the price we are paying.. however, i understand that a CPL course elsewhere would actually cost much less than that...

comments anyone? :)

hopeful_pilot
9th Sep 2007, 04:23
yup would be nice to hear from current/soon-to-be cadets at clark..anyone out dere? :)

Zone 220
10th Sep 2007, 06:39
QUOTE:

is it really affordable?
hi, on the clark aviation website, the cost of the MPL program is stated to be USD75,000, and the program will be completed in 12 mths.. it goes on to say that this is actually a very gd deal for the price we are paying.. however, i understand that a CPL course elsewhere would actually cost much less than that...

comments anyone? :)



Hi dude!!

As i've heard from the cadets at clark, it is definitely 75K USD, but 12 months completion, hmmmmmm..... at this moment i believe, this question is still hanging...

I've heard that batch 1 and batch 2 haven't started their flying phase yet, though they are through with ground schooling still they cannot proceed to accomplished flying core because number 1 reason is: The aircraft's
C of R and C of A haven't been released by the regulatory in philippines which is ATO.

Second, eventhough these documents were released, there is not a single flight instructor in the island who holds the rating for this aircraft..not even ATO... This is the first time Alpha Robin aircraft will be used in this country (Philippines)....

Now the latest i've heard was that batch 3 have completed their ground schooling last Aug which means they will be joining the qeue with batch 1 & 2.

Now, is it still possible for Clark Aviation to achieved that promised "12 month" program????? Nobody knows!!! Even the school administrator themselves are not transparent with their milestone:rolleyes:.

I am one of those who are planning to enroll but at this time, i think i'll hold my decision first until such time i hear a good development like batch 1, 2 & 3 are already doing their flying core....

Hope that this thread will catch their attention and do some positive actions on their part...


You can inquire with paolylo, he seems to be in the program, i think he'll know more than i do....

pumping iron
10th Sep 2007, 07:12
Zone 220,

the program set by clark aviation is achievable, each course or batch as you call it still has 5 weeks buffer after groundschooling, that is why each was given a week or 2 off.

the aircraft's documents a re already on process and the latest i've heard was they will utitlise a cessna 172 for course 1 & 2 for their core flying.

From there i dont think there will be some delays. Maybe you should go and visit the school sometime and ask for yourself about all you queries, i believe they are transparent enough to give you info that you need to know.:ok:

vinciboy
10th Sep 2007, 16:52
Hi Pumping Iron,

Did CIA bought a couple of C172s? or CIA will rent them from other schools?

How's your vacation? :)

Safe Flying and regards,
Vince

slatch
10th Sep 2007, 23:25
CIA has purchased some Alpha 120 aircraft. I have not seen them flying with students yet, just sitting on pads at Omni. There were two with RP reg and at least one other that appeared to be getting markings applied.

bluefeatherfly
16th Sep 2007, 05:54
I would like to ask if one applicant has a Moderate Scoliosis can he still be accepted as a student at Clark becuase I have that condition and I'm worried if that would disqualify me as a trainee if ever I tried to apply?

thank you very much and looking forward to your response.

paolylo
25th Sep 2007, 02:53
^with the delay in the flying phase of the training, i'd say they'll be 3-4 months behind schedule... my guess is april or may of next year unless the school plans to rush them to fly the 70 hours.

we were told that one of our school's Alpha 120s will be flight-tested this week. perhaps it's about time. :D

vinciboy
25th Sep 2007, 12:51
I saw one of your aircraft taxiing yesterday, slept the whole morning and didn't saw it flew :)

paolylo
25th Sep 2007, 14:12
@.Aero

i can't speak for Gulf Air and i have no comment about would-be cadets ultimately working for them. i've also heard about that as well but i can't confirm if it's true.

jester_icarus
1st Oct 2007, 11:21
70 hours!!!!!! whoa!!!!!

yowdude
1st Oct 2007, 16:17
go for the traditional cpl/ir . cebupac minimums for f/o on the atr is now 500hrs only.you can get upgraded after a year or so not like the mpl.

jester_icarus
3rd Oct 2007, 05:16
i agree...

ecole-du-ciel
5th Oct 2007, 10:59
Hi guys, I know that some of the batches GOT THERE 50% scholarship at CIA even without Cebu Pac. Why do they continue to accept students even if the MPL is still at its beta phase?

I also know that the entrance exams were most likely just a formality. Everyone passes it, and no one fails. Why?

Not to mention that the Living quarters for the students isnt relaxing. I believe that Rest is an integral part of studying. The beds hurt your back and there is not enough space to study.

be sure to research and study something thoroughly before you even attempt to enter a school.

Sometimes, too much enthusiasm can lead to disaster.

SAD IN QAC
5th Oct 2007, 11:23
they dont fail in that kind of assessments coz its not to fail you or pass u ...


its just to check your preformence in some critical points in the cockpit when it happen



thats about the assessment

ecole-du-ciel
5th Oct 2007, 12:47
they dont fail in that kind of assessments coz its not to fail you or pass u ...


its just to check your preformence in some critical points in the cockpit when it happen



thats about the assessment

@ SAD IN QAC ; sir, could you please elaborate further on your point of view.

----------
What??? But they (CIA) were the ones who said that the assessment was necessary in order to test if the applicant can qualify as a pilot.

My point is, what is the purpose of the $200 dollar assessment if everyone passes it? In my own humble opinion, people without the necessary dexterity and motor neuron skills arent qualified to become pilots. Aviation is not a so-so career, one mistake can cost a lot of human lives.

Are'nt they just using the surplus of students to fuel their company's financial needs?

@ .Aero
I now realize the importance of what you are saying. I have learned my lesson in life.

Cumulonimbus
5th Oct 2007, 21:53
Aero; very interesting how you just pop up in all the posts concerning Clark Aviation? Sometimes, you appear as a wnabee attendee at the BDB forum requesting innocent information, other times you appear to be a well informed aviator with considerable hearsay information about Clark. Maybe time to expose your real identity and motives?

Ecole-du-Ciel. A new interesting player to Pprune that has an instant opinion!

Anyone smell a rodent?

ecole-du-ciel
6th Oct 2007, 01:33
Sir Cumulonimbus, - I am currently a student of Clark Aviation. Ive gone too far just to quit now. "I have gone past redemption." All I can do now is hope and believe that CIA would become a successful MPL school.

Otherwise, I dont know what to do next. Some of my peers are planning to just acquire additional flying time at other flying schools afterwards. Just seeing how the batches are piling up on queue makes us worried everyday.

I just wanted to voice out my concerns, and I believe that this forum is the only place where i can do it anonymously. I hope you do understand that Im just protecting my career and future as a pilot. :mad:

I feel like a guinea pig.

kurimaw
6th Oct 2007, 16:40
ecole-du-ciel..........


good advice....


study about A/C maintenance...at least of 72 units (2yr. course)
to familarize more the aircraft systems....


to have more knowledge not only in operating but also on how to maintain and troubleshoot the aircraft..


in short....a second option


having a A/P license and CPL/IR(MPL?)....good enough to your carrer
and you can choose either as a rated mechanic or pilot...

ecole-du-ciel
7th Oct 2007, 07:40
^ Then I should have just studied A/C maintenance instead of wasting my time and resources right now.

*Sigh* Ive invested so much just to quit now.

kurimaw
7th Oct 2007, 14:49
ecole-du-ciel..........


dont lose hope...!


because you're already there going to your profession as a pilot...
you're lucky because you've enter a expensive flying school...

unlike me.....years will be counted before i start to study in flying schools.
i have to earn money as a A/C maintenance first to have a income and support for my flying lesson....and also...EXPERIENCE in A/C maintenance

not yet a A/C maintenance....but hoping that after i grad this march....
push my lucky to have a job....


there is always a second option....


if you feel that you're not contented enough about the infos and experience in aircraft.....

make some strategies......

add more flying hours experience in aircraft after the 12month training....
or study again...related in aviation. A/C maintenance is one of the good option..

having a 2 license at the same time....= LOTS OF MONEY:E



Heavy Jets like Airbus and Boeing.....it not like a flight simulator that can easily to fly or play with....!


you must be very serious about this kind of large flying metal....
lots of experiences and knowledge will be needed to fly this kind of thing.


I dont know if CIA teach to their students about this info?


FCOM or AOM------only 1200+ pages:hmm:
(basic detail and one only of the ATA chapterization)


AMM---------4000+ pages
(Full Detail of the A320. from operation to maintenance)


ATA chapterization----up to 99 chapters.
(A320 did not reach up to 99):eek:

what more in larger widebody aircraft? (A330,A340,A380, B747,777,)
(reach up to 99 chapters)
1 chapter = 1000-2000 pages of info about the aircraft.:eek:



i understand your situation right now....


even though that you want to fly...but you feel incomplete and
unsure because there is no guarantee job after the training....
and insufficient training and experience..


and also---TIME, MONEY, EFFORT will be wasted if your training will result to nothing...


for us as a pilot wannabe.....LIVE YOUR DREAMS...


have the FlightPlan, Route, Hydro and AquaPlanning...to fly and land successfully going to the dreams....



goodluck to you....


thanks and happy flying

Eight Ball
8th Oct 2007, 10:16
Hi guys,

I am a multi-engine flight instructor from Australia and I saw an ad from CIA the other day and the ad says "Immediate Need" or something like that for instructors. Are they really that desperate ?

Pity I am still converting my CPL/ME/IR to RP equivalent otherwise I would have been there to teach. Does anyone know who can speed up the process for me ? ATO is giving me a hard time.

I fly the twins BE76 Duchess (4 seater), PA31-350 Piper Chieftain ( turbo-charged 2 x 350 HP engines - 10 seater) and PA-28 Aztec (6 seater twin). However, the advert was for a Baron and a Seneca and sadly I don't have those endorsements. Does anyone know what kind of training does CIA give to instructors ? I have over 2100 hrs. (1800 in multi ).

Thanks

azrealmarican
8th Oct 2007, 12:26
after goin thru the forum, i understand that self sponsored cadets got no chance to work in GA or airlines...escpecially if you are Singaporean.:confused:

Budget carriers in Malaysia hire fresh malaysian cadets only...:eek:

Pls prove me otherwise.

Eight Ball
8th Oct 2007, 15:02
Hi Aero, I would really like to send my details however my license conversion is not thru yet. As I said at the outset, ATO is giving me a hard time. I'll send you my details as soon as I finish with it.... heaven only knows when that is.... the system is full of red tape and beaureacracy.

Eight Ball
9th Oct 2007, 10:45
Ooopss! my bad --- Sorry Aero, I thought for a moment you're with CIA management on your original post.

What you've experienced is just the tip of the Iceberg. I had to deal with the ATO directly and got pissed off with them on the first 5 mins. :*
I am at the point of desperation just trying to convert my license.

pumping iron
10th Oct 2007, 05:15
Hi Eight Ball,

clark aviation will give you an alpha robin rating, you can apply anytime and i think you are qualified enough.. Just drop them a mail sir..

Cheers!
PI

:ok:

vinciboy
10th Oct 2007, 06:41
I don't have any experience converting foreign license to RP ATO license. Base on what I've heard, it's a bit hard and will take a LONG LONG time.

jester_icarus
10th Oct 2007, 07:57
AERO..EightBall..

interested to knw what kind of snag are you all getting into as far as dealing with the ATO in converting your licenses.

i too want to convert my FAA lcense and want a little intel before i start doing the proces sos that i can avoid most of the snags..

cheers and thanks all

Eight Ball
10th Oct 2007, 14:25
jester_icarus,

I can draw up a long list for you buddy but I don't wanna highjack this thread as it is for Clark Institute of Av. I'm sure a lot of other foreign and Philippine license holders would want to vent their anger and frustration as well in here regarding the entire ATO system. ( what system ???....crap ).. geeezzz

Especially one particular "chief " and his staff

Pumping Iron - would really like to get started but I've just hit a brick wall with them :ouch: ...... more frustration. Why can't these people get their heads out of their arses and help people instead of shooting them down.

Don't get me wrong, some of them are very helpful. It's only a few abusive people in power that's making life difficult because they haven't got their heads screwed on right.

paolylo
19th Oct 2007, 04:34
@.Aero
what you asked was completely rhetorical to whoever you spoke with and i'm guessing you spoke with a front desk staff who's more concerned with the rooms of the pilots in recurrent training than CIA matters that only the management would know.

@happy flying boy kurimaw

is it just me or have i seen the same post from you over and over again?

Eight Ball
22nd Oct 2007, 02:20
Hi everyone,

Does anyone know of any share accomodation in or out of the school? My travelling time is 2.5 hours one way so I am thinking of boarding near the school. Any suggestions please PM me.

Thanks

ECAM_ACTIONS!!!
3rd Nov 2007, 17:17
CIA seems like a good school. but for those who are keeping their hopes up to fly the 320's........well, lets see when it happens. but just the thought of the stick time experience the LFO would have.....incase of a pilot incapacitation or an emergency??? yikes.

its much easier to "manage" an A320 rather than to FLY a 320!

not putting any of the students down but practice does make u better. and 70 hours is far far away from 1500hrs. cant replace stick & rudder experience. but knowledge does help alot!!!

goodluck guys. wishing u all the best!!!

ECAM_ACTIONS!!!
3rd Nov 2007, 17:31
CIA seems like a good school. but for those who are keeping their hopes up to fly the 320's........well, lets see when it happens. but just the thought of the stick time experience the LFO would have.....incase of a pilot incapacitation or an emergency??? yikes.

its much easier to "manage" an A320 rather than to FLY a 320!

not putting any of the students down but practice does make u better. and 70 hours is far far away from 1500hrs. cant replace stick & rudder experience. but knowledge does help alot!!!

goodluck guys. wishing u all the best!!!

DeltaSix
4th Nov 2007, 06:35
I remember those days when your application won't even get a look over if your TT is below 1500 hrs. :eek:

I admit to being an optimist but 70 hours of flying time then to an A320 right seat with just sim time? I've heard the MPL holder is not even allowed to fly a single as PIC with pax let alone being SIC on an aircraft carrying 170.

I've heard of CPLs with 250 hours TT in EU being given 737 RHS jobs but 70????.... and I thought they were being irresponsible.

I guess these are the signs of the times to come due to pilot shortage. But try telling that to a paying passenger who holds a PPL with 5,000 hours on his log book or an Airbus 330 Captain on holidays or a poor old lady who already has a fear of flying.:ugh:

ATSU Misc
5th Nov 2007, 02:05
Evaluation as to whether you can be a pilot or not is simple: if one knows how to bicycle (balance, coordination, depth perception, situational awareness) and is not colorblind, then he qualifies. After seeing all the wierd Captains around, I doubt whether passing a Psych test is even required.

We all went thru flight training and remember that at 70 hrs we would fly under bridges and wash wheels in the river. Most of those that did that are now dead or disabled. Those that didn't, those that flew straight and level from point A to point B and were more concerned with sticking the nose wheel smack on centreline and on the bar for parking, they retire in their mansions.

We remember the Captains who always took on more fuel than necessary, who immediately diverted without at least one attempt at an approach, who gave you landings but with dual inputs, who were chicken in short. We hated them but they retire with a fortune.

The cool guys, the hotshots, the guys that made flying what it was meant to be, a passion not a job, they have the most number of incidents. Why do you think Airbus designed their airplanes so that these guys could no longer override the protections?

It's a new world. Live in it. Stick and rudder? It depends...:cool:

ECAM_ACTIONS!!!
5th Nov 2007, 03:37
i totally agree with what was just said by atsu misc! you know who are still alive and who just have loads of incidents on their back.

but what i mean abt stick and rudder is the actual time u have flying the aircraft....not breaking the law (ie wheel washing, flying under bridges!! hahaha)

at say 70 hrs of actuall fying, would u be so confident to believe that with a situation of multiple emergencies.....u could actually fly a jet A/C safely? or banking on luck to get u on the ground???

i know we are in a new era of flying and that "managing" the aircraft is just like playing a video game. But i would like to know that the company doesnt pay me all that money just to manage the airbus and sit pretty but to actually take contols and fly the aircraft with skill when the "**** hits the fan"!

waddyathink?:ok:

Navitimer
6th Nov 2007, 06:56
I've seen people with hundreds of hours logged on the Bus and still don't know heck about "stick and rudder flying" or basic flying skills (for the uninitiated) :ugh: And these guys have thousands of hours logged before they flew the Bus.

I don't have anything against the CIA students, in fact I think they will be the new pioneers in this trade. It all depends on the attitude of the student, on how willing they are to learn and acquire the skills needed in flying an aircraft, or if they're just in it for the glamour and "mucho dinero" that is perceived to be in this profession :confused:. The A320 will help them come up to speed in that this aircraft is easy to fly with automation, still easy with alternate law, but requires a little more attention in direct law. If you know your SOPs and regulations, then decision making will be a lot easier for the neophyte. Couple this with proper LINE EXPOSURE and you have the makings of a good pilot. It may sound easy, but I assure you, nothing comes easy in this profession. Its all study, study and more studies! Experience counts, but it doesn't necessarily make one a good pilot.

DeltaSix
15th Nov 2007, 09:58
Navitimer's apprehension to the program is well founded.

Would good studying habits and state of the art training facilities really can replace actual command hours whether on a twin or a single engine ???

One Cebu Pac Captain even mentioned that he had a new hire who can't even do the radio calls let alone someone who only has 70 hours.

Is this what aviation has come down to ? A systems opereator rather than a pilot.

What would happen if the Captain was incapacitated during an approach in bad weather with an in-flight shutdown of one engine ?
Can the airline truly say that the passengers are safe ? Remember, this is where we earn our money. Any idiot can push buttons and move control levers.

Friends, let us remember the quote: EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST TEACHER

Good command decisions are not bourne out of simulators and flying schools but thru actual experience.


Just my 2 cents worth.

Navitimer
16th Nov 2007, 03:03
Just to set it straight, I am not vouching for ACTUAL EXPERIENCE being the only measure. My only apprehensions to the MPL program is if it will just be made into a program by the training provider to make a quick buck from the aspirants AND for the student to think that this is just a shortcut to the dream of every pilot wannabe, to get into an established airline without sweating it out. This mix is very unsafe, and should have no place in the aviation industry.

However, I believe proper training methods and improved training equipment (like Level D simulators and MFTDs) will be sufficient enough to mold these students into pilots that can qualify for the right seat of any aircraft. ICAO has laid out stringent requirements for the MPL program, and I think these should be the BARE MINIMUMS to be observed by any training facility that would cater to this program. Also, it should also be the partner airline's responsibility to make sure that these requirements are addressed and fully implemented. Who gets to fly with them after they graduate, right? The students' progress should be strictly monitored and evaluations given every step of the way. That, I believe, is how the bad eggs can be weeded out of the program.

My post regarding high timers not knowing basic stuff is to point out that even though they have lots of time under them, these pilots have been gaining the WRONG EXPERIENCE and thus cannot fall back on their acquired hours to save them when they start lagging behind the aircraft. I should have added that I've also seen low timers flying the Bus like they were meant for the LEFT SEAT because they fully understood the equipment, its systems and have a good working knowledge of procedures and regulations. I know I'll be gaining the wrath of all those who believe that these MPL students or so-called "pilot wannabees" have no place in the airline industry but if we can propose more stringent safeguards and checks for these guys instead of bashing them to the ground, we might just give this industry of ours a much needed boost in terms of safety and economic viability.

No arguments, just my two cents worth also!

DeltaSix
16th Nov 2007, 07:02
The technical skills are undoubtedly will be there, but I just can't see how it could replace someone who has flying experience.

Maybe, I have been left by the times and MAYBE these simulators can replace someone with the RIGHT flight experience but that is still to be seen and proved.

I have always asked this - It might be legal, but is it safe?

Then ask yourself why is it that even up to now, most airlines require at least 500 hours to fly a 40-60 seat turbines as F/Os an not 70 hour pilots ?

Airphil even requires 1500 hours total time.

These 70 hour pilots are not even licensed to carry passengers on a single engine and they are allowed as a crew in an airliner carrying over 150 paying passengers.

I know that most of them are Bupac scholars but their website still require at least 1,000 hours minimum total time for F/Os.

Not unless of course I have not seen the website and they have already reduced it to 70 hours total flying time and and 60 hours on Level D sim and you are almost 100% employable.

It just doesn't make sense. Way I look at it, it is a shortcut so the airline can fulfill it's requirements. I'm not even sure if ATO recognizes MPL as a license.

The lowest time requirement I have seen so far is India. Even then they have not gone down to as low as 70 hours and a type rating.

I rest my case.

Navitimer
16th Nov 2007, 15:04
Then ask yourself why is it that even up to now, most airlines require at least 500 hours to fly a 40-60 seat turbines as F/Os an not 70 hour pilots ?

Airphil even requires 1500 hours total time.

Way I look at it, it is a shortcut so the airline can fulfill it's requirements.

Exactly. Because its a totally new program, different from what has been the standard industry practice in place for decades. Even ICAO admits that its breaking into new territory when it proposed the MPL program to the aviation industry. I would advance the opinion that its primarily because of the advent of such advanced trainers that they are seeing a steady shift in the importance of training pilots early on to work in a multi-crew environment. This could lead to CRM being the norm than individual skills being put into play that could eventually come into conflict with each other.

To reference the 8 Laws by Airbus in flying their aircraft, it never stated there that in order to fly their planes, one must have logged hundreds of hours. It just stated that it can be flown like any other a/c, to back each other up, one head up all the time, proper use of automation, fly, navigate and communicate, in that order and so on. New generation aircraft have reduced most of the workload of yore to a mere push of a button. It is now mostly managing the system as a whole to get the mission done. Low timers WILL definitely be flying with high timers, that cannot be denied. It is in this arrangement where ones experience can best be transferred to the guy on the right seat. This is where the MPL program will need to be clearly defined, as safety will surely be an issue. But as I have just recently learned, safety is the proper management of risks in order to complete a defined task, not the elimination of threats. There will always be that small percentage of error, that even experienced crews must learn to properly handle.

EVA, Singapore and most other major carriers have in place a cadet program that provides them with pilots having around 200 to 250 hours. Their training expenses run up to the thousands due to the fact that they are using state of the art equipment (from single prop piston-engined planes to light jets). They are placed on the right seat of wide-bodied jets where they gain most of their flying skills (radio procedures, instrument flight procedures and basic CRM skills). Have there been a deluge of accidents wherein these low timer pilots are a contributing factor? I don't think it may make much difference if we just change the training aids used. But as I stated earlier, this is perceived to be breaking into new ground.

For now, we'll just have to wait and see. ATO may not have approved the MPL per se, but I believe they are giving approval to its different modules as they are finished. The CIA student pilots are now undergoing their flying phase, the first 70 hours, so it will still be some time before we can get good feedback with regard to their performance in the A320 simulator. As in any pioneering work, this is turning up more headaches that it can cure, but eventually this could be a viable program for the airlines.

And I think they are looking at more than 170 hours in the sim, not just 60.

Cessna1052
17th Nov 2007, 06:46
Hi Delta6,

How's flying in India?
No joy pa rin ba sa PAL and cebupac?

Alpha Aviation of CIA represented Philippines in the just recently concluded DUBAI airshow. I saw their booth inside the exhibition hall.

Airline companies will do anything to get the Pilots they need for the expansion, no matter what, even if it means reducing the time to 70.

Changes are happening around the Gulf too, imagine one company is needing 1500 pilots. Where are they gonna get it? I dont know. Have you heard of Emirates ordering 70 A350s? yah, you read it right and they have an option of 50 more and the 380s? from 45, its 58 now!. They are doubling the fleet in the next few years.
So, just imagine there is a lot of space for everyone.

All the best!
C1052

DeltaSix
17th Nov 2007, 13:19
Navitimer - This subject would've easily degenerated into a slanging match on other threads ;) thank you for the friendly discussion.

Hi there Cesssna1052..... will fill you in on the details, check your email.
Those spaces you mentioned, anymore of them ??? :E....:ok:.....


D6

Navitimer
18th Nov 2007, 06:03
D6,

I respect your opinions too. Magkabaro tayo di ba?:) We need not do what the others do when we can enjoy it over a bottle of beer, right? Or any bottle for that matter :E

When we have the time, kita kits! Ingat sa liparan lagi!

DeltaSix
18th Nov 2007, 13:53
Will do Navitimer - will do :cool:

First round is on me with Shakeys pizza..... :ok:... cheers buddy

calvin_1912
24th Nov 2007, 01:38
Hi Everyone!

For those who are currently enrolled in Clark Institute of Aviation (and for others who may also know), how were you able to look for funding for the remainder of the training cost after the partial sponsorship from Cebu Pacific?

I think this will still amount to about Php 2 million which is a big amount. Loans or scholarships from external organizations perhaps? I am looking for possible ways to fund my training at Clark.

Thanks!

Calvin

jester_icarus
24th Nov 2007, 12:36
WOW...you can get flight training for less than that...and more respectable than a 70 hours of flight time and an MPL...

Eight Ball
24th Nov 2007, 13:15
Calvin_1912

Cal - I've got a few in mind, just pick one:

1 - Naked pole dancing 24/7 at Olongapo - great tips !!
2 - Rob a bank
3 - Marry the bosses daughter
4 - Join the mafia for money laundering
:}

Seriously, I spoke to a couple of the students and one of them said that he borrowed it from his parents. He is already married and his wife is supporting him while he goes thru this training.

Another one has a father that works for an overseas airline.

So, most of the partial scholars have borrowed from parents and relatives who are well off.

But nearly or most of the ones I've talked to have 100% scholarship from Cebu Pac.

Goodluck

8Ball

Alpha 6
24th Nov 2007, 19:05
Salamalaikum,
Sorry to divert a liitle from the topic. For all Pinoy FIs, look at this site:

http://www1.sniperhire.net/sniperhire/careers/dae/university/vacancysearch.aspx?companyid=38 (http://www1.sniperhire.net/sniperhire/careers/dae/university/vacancysearch.aspx?companyid=38)

select flight crew training instructors under the vacancy ID/title. They are offering a very good package.

Just give it a try guys:ok:

http://www1.sniperhire.net/sniperhire/careers/dae/university/vacancysearch.aspx?companyid=38 (http://www1.sniperhire.net/sniperhire/careers/dae/university/vacancysearch.aspx?companyid=38)

A6

Kaptin Kook
24th Nov 2007, 23:22
Wow! :eek: What a package for instructors, those pay rates are almost comparable FO airline positions in the UAE. Wish our pilot schools could pay the same rates (or even half... or a quarter) for instructors in the Philippines.

I don't see how Clark Aviation will be able to recruit suitably qualified instructors with that sort of competition. They are in big trouble as it is....

jester_icarus
24th Nov 2007, 23:32
...yeah..!! those are pretty good pay..for CFI's. In the states youre lucky if you make $1000.00 per month flight instructing.

Eight Ball
25th Nov 2007, 06:21
Wow !!!......... good package. I'll think about it if nothing happens with Cebu Pac. Thanks to Alpha 6

Has anyone seen the Rishworth website in their pilot job ads ??? Now I'm convinced that there is a worldwide shortage of pilots. From Airbus, Boeings, to ATRs.

Also, got an email regarding instructing the cadets for SIA and possible upgrade to SIA mainline. So, there's also a shortage on F.I.s

I'm sick of doing license conversions though.

calvin_1912
25th Nov 2007, 09:38
Hahaha! Thanks Eight Ball! :ok:

Borrowing from relatives who are well of is definitely a safe way to fund one's training. Kailangan lang kapalan ang mukha! Hehe!

By the way, you said that most of the ones you know who are studying in CIA had 100% scholarship. You mean that they are existing employees of Cebu Pacific? Because from the way I know it, they offer 50% scholarship to "outsiders" and 100% only to CP employees. Am I missing something?

Thanks again! :)

calvin_1912
25th Nov 2007, 09:44
Hi jester_icarus!

When you said training for less than 2M pesos, did you mean PAL Aviation School? The reason I like the schoalrship package of Cebu Pacific and CIA is that they are guaranteeing a spot as First Officer.

I heard that if you are not sponsored, it will take quite a while for an airline to actually employ you since they require lots of flying hours. Is this right? :confused:

jester_icarus
25th Nov 2007, 10:43
calvin,

Flight Safety International had the same ad. Flight train at their school and guarantee an interview. What they (FSI) dont say is that they start eliminating studets from the begginning. I mean s student will go through the whole PPL to CPL but at the end only a handfull will get a chance to interview for a spot for an airline. What im trying to say is..nothing is guarantee.

Twelve months from now the market may change..and therefore demand for pilots may dwindle.

MPL.. its nice that if all goes through you will be on the right seat...WOW..thats a dream come true..for all aviators. at least the ones that i know. But then you will still need to work on our CPL since you cannot be PIC on any aircraft (from what i understand). This will be another expense.

Hindsight...if i had the money when i first started flight training..maybe i would go that route. But then again...the debt??!! whew.. i have a friend that has a loan amount of $80K us!!!! in fact if i could afford it right now i would go and get a Type Rating on an A319/320..and apply for Cebu Pak.. but then again even this is not guarantee.

Of course if everything goes as promised then...viola...instant AirBus driver!!!!! very envious.....If you can afford it.

Ive got 3000 hours and im still pondering options...

Good Luck...

"keep the blue side up"


PS..and yes Airlines do require lots of hours. But in the states there is also a pilot shortage. Most regionals you can get in at 500 hours total.. and theres some regionals where 250 (CPL min) is all you need. But of course if you are not a US citizen..it may be a bit hard to fly in the states.

Eight Ball
25th Nov 2007, 13:27
Calvin, yes most of them who got 100% scholarships are CP employees ranging from flight attendants, despatch, management and some are relatives of CP employees ( I could be wrong on the last one)

So, there you go... Other half are 50% subsidized.

On the other hand, if you already have the CPL/IR, SimCenter in Miami Florida is offering an A320 type rating for 12,000 USD only.

With CIA, you need 80k USD for Ab-initio through to A320 TR.

Hope this helps.

calvin_1912
27th Nov 2007, 06:03
You are right jester_icarus, I also heard from others that I should be careful on the employment guarantee that they offer. If ever I take their scholarship package, I should just make sure that they give a contract or something like that.

I also need to research for information on other possible places where I can get my pilot training. :ok:

calvin_1912
27th Nov 2007, 06:33
Thanks again eight ball! I currently do not hold any pilot license, so it will still be a long way for me. I am looking at other possible source of funding since I am not sure if I can borrow from relatives.

The Cebu Pacific employees are so lucky! They get their training for free! :D

jester_icarus
27th Nov 2007, 10:40
Calvin...

Heres an easy way to determine if the scholarship will take you to the right seat of the AirBus.

If Cebu Pac sponsors you 100%..then you have a 99.7564899% of sitting right seat in an AirBus..

If they only give you 50% scholarship and you put in the other 50%..then your chances are .....well 50% (if no guarantee contract is given)

Either way..the company is investing in you to fly for them.....

If you have the money GO FOR IT!!!!

jester_icarus
27th Nov 2007, 10:45
Calvin..

if you are loking for a traditional pilot training school..heres my suggestion.

Find a school and find the cheapest C152 or C150 and get you PPL with this aircraft.

Then once you get your PPL..find a C172 thats IFR certified and get your IR with this a/c.

Next find a multi to train on to get your commercial multi...

Then..if you have left-overs from you millions of pesos..go get a Type Rating like 8ball said. Now comes the hard part. Finding a job!!.

Good Luck...


"keep the blue side up"

DeltaSix
27th Nov 2007, 11:31
calvin - there are a lot of fast track programs in the U.S.

There was even one that offers frozen ATPL status within 12 months if you do decide to go through the normal licensing progression. But it means $$$

From my experience overseas, they wouldn't normally employ you with just a type rating. They need at least 100 hrs on type ( Airbus or Boeing).

however, in the last few months, the likes of India have been employing pilots WITH JUST A TYPE RATING and people have been going to Florida and getting their TR for just 12-13,000 USD. Some people will laugh at it saying that it has low standard but people have been going through it and have gotten jobs in the A320 and B737-800s.

Check Indigo airlines' website in India.

good luck. go for the normal CPL/ME/IR and ATPl subjects.

Australia has been doing the course of "Direct CPL/ME/IR" and cut-out the PPL stuff. This is also a fast track as it can be done in 12 months.
Just ask 8ball as he was a multi-engine instructor in Sydney with this type of program.

Have a good think but if you can get a scholarship with Cebu Pac then go for it but if the door closes on you then as they say " If you can't get in the front door, use the kitchen window".


Cheerio

calvin_1912
28th Nov 2007, 13:22
Thanks jester_icarus and DeltaSix! :)

Eight Ball, what is the name of the flight school in Sydney where you are a flight instructor? It was mentioned that they also offer a fast track program to get a CPL, etc. Maybe this can be an interesting option as well. :D

fingus
28th Nov 2007, 14:45
heaps of places at bankstown airport.

either get intouch with 8ball or pm for some details around bankstown. ive got mates who are teaching there. (Sydney Flight Training Centre)

goodluck mate.

Eight Ball
29th Nov 2007, 13:34
well Cal, I can tell you but then I will have to kill you.:}

There are a lot of schools there. As Fingus says, one of them is Sydney Flight Training ( look for a guy named Malcolm Poulton - he is one of the best and is kind and helpful). There are others like, Whitworth ;), Basair, Proflite, etc.
Most of them do the direct CPL course and are good trainers.

Then there is also a correspondence or classroom lessons for your ATPL subjects in Bankstown. Look for a company called Secombe Aviation.

I also did a specialized course in Basic Gas Turbine ( Jets ), Glass cockpit technology, RVSM, and Long Range navigation with a company called Aero Training Systems. I thought I knew all about jets and airline flying till I did this course.

PM me and I'll give you the name of the school who can help you with a student visa if you're really interested.

goodluck

flyboylipad
29th Nov 2007, 14:25
Dont forget good old AEROSPACE AVIATION BANKSTOWN :)

flyboy

Eight Ball
30th Nov 2007, 01:20
Hi there flyboylipad,

Yes of course, and there is AEROSPACE AVIATION.... I wonder how Sue Davies is going ??..... last I've heard they were still training Indian cadets.

How's China Southern ?..... Rey will be there soon to visit you I think :}

See you at CP..:O;). Make sure you're not behind the eight ball :p


8Ball

ssangyongs
30th Nov 2007, 08:02
what is the current status for MPL training in CA? Have the boys and girls started flying the real airplane?

How many batch currently?

flyboylipad
2nd Dec 2007, 12:24
Hello der 8Ball,

yeah Aero is busy with Kingfisher Cadets... 2 weeks to go with China Southern, yeah Rey is keen, will help him out!

Cya soon at CebPAc

Flyboylipad

Cessna1052
4th Dec 2007, 07:24
Hi 8ball,

So, Are you bound for Cebpac? Congratulations!

C1052

paolylo
4th Dec 2007, 23:43
batch 1 have already started flying solo
batch 2 are doing in some hours
batches 3-4 will be flying next
batch 5 will begin the flying phase next week
batches 6-9 are in groundschool
batch 10 i believe they just started

Passenger 07
5th Dec 2007, 00:41
Just curious:
How many Flight and Simulator Instructors?
How many students per batch?

Eight Ball
5th Dec 2007, 06:05
Hi C1052

Thanks my friend. That's the plan so far ;) and God willing Feb should be the month. Moment of truth, and I leave it all in God's hands as I have done before. Got out of charter flying unscathed despite horrendous weather and lightning bolts around the aircraft :ooh:. Will surely miss twin flying.

Just doing more advance studies now to prepare. Any CD ROM materials you can throw my way ?

See you when you get here. Let me know okay ? Need extra tips on the Airbus from you.

To the Clark Aviation cadets - goodluck and don't take notice of what's going on at the school. Just focus on what you are there to achieve and get through it. Maybe not quickly but surely.

flyboylipad
5th Dec 2007, 12:25
Just curious, how much do Flight Instructors get @ CIA? Salary wise... Are they looking for instructors?

from wot i heard they are willing to match wot u will get overseas?

to all CIA cadets gud luck.. seen u around Omni, Looking good ;)

Merry xmas

FlyboyLipad

Passenger 07
6th Dec 2007, 12:53
Yeah... Curious:
What are FIs salaries?
What is the number of Cadets per batch?
What is the number of FIs?

Why no yet any answer on this usually so reactive thread?
Is this just a thread to talk about "Clark Aviation" and MPL?
Please answer....
Thank you....

Eight Ball
6th Dec 2007, 22:48
I'd let someone else answer that for confidentiality reasons.

Passenger 07
7th Dec 2007, 03:28
Just a promoting thread on MPL and Clark Aviation?
Why so confidential suddenly?

martinxbloan
10th Dec 2007, 23:31
Hi, goodmorning...

I wanted to apply for the scholarship offered by Cebu Pacific so I took the assessment test this August and well they told me I passed. (does everyone pass it?).

Then I was told to get my 1st class medical certificate, which I did. Then the school told me to wait for the schedule of interview this December and still nothing has been happening.

Would anyone know if they will be giving a schedule of interview this December for the batch of January?

Or can someone tell me what I have to do to get the interview?

Thanks guys!

King ECAM
11th Dec 2007, 02:39
Rumormill says:

CIA might stop the processing of new applicants. Better get in touch with someone who can give you a straight answer.

martinxbloan
11th Dec 2007, 05:23
ok. thanks!

I was told that the last 2-3 months of 2007 were reserved for the middle eastern cadets. Also, that Cebu Pac scholarship was put to a halt and was to resume this 2007. Would you know if that is true?



Thanks again guys!

yagbadoodle
11th Dec 2007, 15:31
IF YOU GUYS WANT FULL CEBU PACIFIC SCHOLARSHIP, THEN GO TO CEBU PACIFIC HRD AND DON'T INQUIRE AT CLARK AV. Of course Clark Av. will say that they are hiring for Cebu Pacific...quite obviou$$$$$.

Get it straight from the BUPAKS' mouth.

kurimaw
12th Dec 2007, 12:18
sirs....


can i ask a question and advices?.....


slightly, a out-of-topic question?


what is the complete/minimum total hours & requirements needed to became a pilot of ATR-72 in Bupak?


i'm having a OJT right now in LTP as a A/C mech...assigned in the aircraft overhaul(cabin sys).


after i grad. and finish my OJT,
i'm planning to start my flying lessons later on next year.
to get the license, total hours needed and to know how much will i spend to meet the requirements...and have a opportunity in bupak...


i know that bupak will gave a chance to train their pilots to have a rating of A320...in CIA.


i'm only taking only a 2yr. course about a/c maintenance....

i've talked to a Ex-PAL mech. and working right now in LTP as a MECH.A
and advices me that if i want to became a pilot in PAL or BUPAK..
get experience first as a A/C mech. then if you have a money,
get some training about aircraft system or study flying.
because some of A/C mechs. became a Test Pilot.
educational attainment is only one of the basis..and the company primary requirements.... Experience...

CIA...is one of the good opportunity to train students to became a pilot of A320...within 12months.


but honestly. i don't have enough money to pay 1,750,000 within one year.


so i get some alternative...


and for me....aircraft is VERY SERIOUS. many people worked to maintain the aircraft as Airworthy...


and One miss, You'll die.



thanks and happy flying...

ww1
13th Dec 2007, 01:02
Great. He's back.

E-rude
13th Dec 2007, 05:11
Didn't know you missed him. Not.

Zone 220
13th Dec 2007, 10:48
yup yup yup!!!! heeee's baaaaccck.....:}

jester_icarus
13th Dec 2007, 11:01
hey kurimaw...

remember the Nike commercial.......? "Just Do It"



"keep the blue side up"

Eight Ball
13th Dec 2007, 12:50
Kurimaw, if you really want to, you can do it.

Don't know if you know the saying " Beg, Steal or Borrow".

Go overseas and earn good money ($, Euros, Rial, etc.) then get your training there while working. That's what I did. I left the Philippines to earn money ($) so I can pay for my flying lessons. One inch at a time till I succeeded. Filipinos are known to be persevering. So, as Jester_Icarus said "Just Do It".

There are fast track CPL/ME/IR courses or do the MPL

No use thinking twice - have the determination and go for it. Say to yourself " CLEAR FOR TAKE-OFF" and you'll soon get your wings.
Good luck !!!

8Ball

kurimaw
13th Dec 2007, 14:00
Sir jester_icarus
Sir 8 ball...


"Just Do It"
"Clear for Take Off"


same advice that given to me of my team leader in A.O...
and also said me that....


"Keep on going"



thanks for the good advice....
and hoping that i'm going to right path to my profession.


i'll share some of my experience as a OJT in LTP
although not yet as a fully experienced A/C mech.
but to know all pilot's wannabe like me what is the big difference between a A/C mech. and Pilot.


our department performs D check of Airbus A340-300

and everytime that i go to the Hangar....
there so many things that you must learned seriously and work it to have a experience for maintaining of the aircraft and gain more knowledge for such kind of system.

removing, cleaning and installing/replacing of the seats has so many electrical components, sidewalls, door linings, dado panels, lavatory and galley, and other accessories in the cabin and cargo,(including cockpit)

it is a very serious task and very responsible for this kind of job..
lots of AMM will be read, review of a certain components, check of the serial no. and other things you must study before you perform any work to a certain thing.


harsh chemicals likes skydroll, mastinox, cosmoline,fuel fumes, A/C paints

loud sounds came from the APU, ground power unit, ground APU, PTU,
turbine sounds,

one of the health threats that you can't avoid specially if you're assigned to that field.


i've asked a rated mechanic about the A/THR system of A320...
why one of the engine perform GA and the other one in REV position.
and he said that...it's either the system or pilot's error will be blamed.


and i proved that there is a certain limitation of knowledge between a Pilot and A/C mech.


A/C mechs only knows how to perform maintenance and check the cockpit(ECAM, ECIAS) if readings are correct and accurate. before it releases and fly again.


Pilot knows only how to fly a aircraft and reports only whats the problem in a certain system,




lots of flammable substances, kilometers of wires have been used, the structure of the aircraft, the name of the company that you've worked for, and the life between the passenger, crew and yourself..

am i RESPONSIBLE enough and have a lots of EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE to handle and fly a aircraft.??

Think again...


that's the lesson that i've learned from the professional and experienced persons in aviation that given me a good advices and the school that i've studied and came from.


dreaming to became a pilot....TAKE IT SERIOUSLY..
and NO SHORTCUT...!!





Thanks and happy flying...

Smiling_Goat
15th Dec 2007, 00:19
Will the 1st batch of CIA "cadets" finish/graduate on schedule on January 2008?

kurimaw,

please take this in the spirit that it's intended (in other words, please don't be offended)...

i think it would really help you in achieving your goal if you took up some english grammar lessons...

just my two cents...

kurimaw
15th Dec 2007, 03:50
Sir Similing_Goat...



thanks for the advice...


and i'll do my best to develop my english grammar and proficiency...


thanks and happy flying..

an2ni
15th Dec 2007, 09:04
Will the 1st batch of CIA "cadets" finish/graduate on schedule on January 2008?

They are 3-4 months delayed so I think they will not finish on time.

mplcadet
16th Dec 2007, 00:35
No!!! definitely they wont finish on time, coz we have an incompetent manager acting as Head of training. He maybe a well skilled pilot in the past, but talk about management skills...he doesn't have any!!!

What he's got is an overgrown ego and a serious attitude problem!

This wouldn't happen in the first place if Alpha Aviation have employed the right person for that job.. Plus the fact that skin color plays a major role, if you're brown they dont consider your thoughts and ideas... Talk about RACISM huh!!!!:yuk:

and i thought it was already eliminated in aviation industry..it proves me wrong!!!

King ECAM
16th Dec 2007, 02:10
mplcadet,

Instead of just whining and bashing the staff of CA, why don't you be proactive and give out suggestions. Things are changing there since they already have asked for help from you know who.............I understand your frustration but I would suggest at this point in time you focus on your flying. If you have the right stuff to be a pilot then show it!! Leave CA's problems behind because you have a bigger problem.....to no **** up your landings and not puking on your instructor (not that you have)

Focus on the flying not on anything else. the sooner your done with the Core Flying Skills the sooner you will leave CA and enter the airlines and from there you will face a different kind of BSing. welcom to aviation mplcadet!!!!

Eight Ball
16th Dec 2007, 08:40
To MPLCadet

My friend, try to re-focus your anger and frustration by doing advance studies on your Core Flying Skills. Ask your course mentor to get you in the ALSIM as many times as you can till you have mastered everything while waiting. Believe me it will take time for you to REALLY LEARN about flying.

Your delay is not a total waste of time. :) The aircraft handling (take-off, cruise and landing ) is only a small part of it. You still have to learn instrument flying and this is the measurement of a professional pilot if he can fly day, night, and in whatever weather. Practice instrument flying.
THIS IS WHAT WILL MATTER before your type rating.
If only CA management will get you into the ALSIM with me and get started on instrument flying I would be glad to. I have charts from overseas and can drum into you NDB approaches as we don't have a lot here amongst other instrument let-downs.

However, I think you know why I can't now.

Take it from me, I have had many frustrations in aviation and the only thing that will alleviate the problem is to try and re-focus your attention elsewhere. I actually finish my ATPL coz I couldn't get a full-time job in aviation at one stage. I was that frustrated that the next thing I know I was doing my last exam. Whooppeeee.....

To those who already have got their CPL, do advance studies on the A320.
Don't kid yourself that reading, simulating the A320 for just a month or 2 will get you through. I have been studying it now for a "year" and i can tell you that I still don't know everything about it.

People fail their type rating ladies and gentlemen. The longer you have (time to study) the better are your chances when evaluation comes. So, get to it.

I can still mentor you as I would want to see you all succeed.

Goodluck boys and girls. If anybody wants me, I'll be in domestic flying charters on twins.... ;)

8Ball.

P.s. anyone for a game of billiard or pool after graduation ??? :O

slatch
16th Dec 2007, 10:12
I was sitting at the Pit Stop having a few beers the other day and watched one of CIA's Alpha 120's do some pattern work. It was nice to see some training happening but I still question the reasoning behind importing a new model when C172's are well known and acceppted. I can only guess how much it cost to get the Alpha certified and the additional cost to train instructors. Plus with the higher landing speed and rear stabilizer design it will cause more issues during training. I saw some real nice landings by some PAL cadets and a couple of Omni 152's. Nice to see quality training going on.

jester_icarus
17th Dec 2007, 10:37
8ball..

ill take you up on that offer..but lets make it a little interesting. He who loses pays for an hour of flight time in any single avaialble..


ooopsss.. i take that back. i guess your call sign says it all!

mplcadet.....if you get a chance to do some sim flying..try doing some partial panel and unusuall attitude flying...better yet if you can get an hour or two in a single doing the same that will keep you up to speed...but always "stick and rudder first"

"keep the blue side up"

ecole-du-ciel
17th Dec 2007, 14:43
FYI; the alphas are second hand. If I remember correctly, the propellers were new, they came from the US -- I just forgot the name.

btw, I heard theyre recruiting newbie pilots for training at Azadistan. Its for free, all you have to do is to work hard and sign up a working visa. :D

I guess Azadistan really needs a lot of pilots, although I doubt that it'll probably be for commercial purposes.

Eight Ball
18th Dec 2007, 13:37
Azadistan ??......... In Iran ?? :uhoh:

Ever heard of Surface to Air missiles being fired over there on airliners with pilots having American accents like we do ?

okay, okay, I'll change mine and adopt a weird accent. Seriously, where did you find this one out ?

parsifal
19th Dec 2007, 04:07
There are parents who have invested time and money in the MPL program of Clark Institute of Aviation. They were lured by the promise of the fulfillment of their dream of their sons/daughters becoming airline pilots in one(1) year.The promise cost about $80,000.00

The promise will be one year old on January 2008. That's a month from now. The fulfillment, I'm afraid, won't be on hand.

The ATO or SEC or DepED should look into the real state of affairs in this Institute. This is to allay the fears of these parents that their time and money won't bring them the pride and joy that a pilot in the family brings.

spinningasia
22nd Dec 2007, 05:37
MPL_Cadet

A Quote from Semper_Fi in the Pal Av School Forum. Some poignent words that those of you in Clark Aviation should heed as well.

Nothing in life is either free or easy. You are lucky, you may have only to wait a year or possibly a year and a half. Some have to wait years for the opportunity you now have in front of you but actually learn how to fly stick and rudder in the process., not just be button twiddlers as you will be.

Your comment on racism I find absloutely ridiculous. I think your fellow cadets would be shocked that you even think that way. Usually, those who throw stones actually live in glass houses themselves.

Shame on you. Read on and learn from your elders ... and be grateful for the opportunity you currently have in your life!!!!:D:ok:

Spinning Asia
"The world is changing so fast my head spins"

Copied from the Pal Av School Forum (For the context of the message, see the forum)

"Beauty is only skin deep.............
I've been quietly amused by reading these last few posts on this thread about what it takes to become a pilot or even a pilot for Pal. I want to tell you at this point in time that flying in the Av School is never a guarantee to get in.

If you don't know how to express yourself much more spell words, do you think you'll get in? How on earth did you pass your college course?

If you think lifting weights and looking like God's gift to women will do it, think again.

There is a reason for everything in life, if your's is because you want to brag to your friends at the local tavern and drop hints at the ladies that you can fly an itty bitty plane, you have an over inflated ego that belongs at a local pool joint and not flying or being part of a culture created an aeon ago by real men who flew real airplanes. Not like the likes of what you have today.
You will never know what it is to walk under a real airplane, smell raw fuel or even appreciate the fact that generations of people before you built up the profession to what it is today.

I feel sorry for all of you who think that the pilot's career will etch you into history books or line your pockets with loads of cash or get you the adoration of the opposite sex, it is a job now just like anything else. The real pilots are the guys that fly stick and rudder, not the one's who push buttons and twirl knobs anymore.

If you do get to the top 10% of the elite who fly the big jets, it is because you studied hard, paid the price by limiting your social life and persevered.
Piloting has its inner fullfillment, it is a profession for professionals who set their goals to do a job, the end result being someone who will fly the biggest jet around someday.

Meanwhile while you are in your own little myopic world, be humbled by the fact that you are only a person with a dream, nothing else. The fullfillment of the dream comes only when you shut down youre engines on the 65th year of your life without any mishaps, have been a productive member of society, raised and nurtured a family including your grandchildren, and have received the respect of your peers at work and in your neighborhood.

I hope all of you get your priorities straight, don't get into flying because you want to look good or feel good, do it because you have a purpose, to learn what it takes to get the job done and finish a career to the very end of your natural productive life.

Lets see what kind of response this post will bring, if you understand what I'm talking about good for you, otherwise go back to school and study some more. Life is full of choices, really.............:="

mplcadet
23rd Dec 2007, 13:34
your comments are always welcome... but "shame on me"??? i think not!

you can easily say things that you may, because you dont really understand our situation here and what really is happening...

"learn from your elders too"!!! you dont comment on a recipe you havent tasted yet!!!

maybe you think you know all things.... well, you dont!!!;)

jester_icarus
24th Dec 2007, 05:35
hi there cadet..

i feel for you and your fellow cadets there. but i think what spinning is trying to say is be patient. the program you are in right now is a fast track and it will take you to the right seat of an airbus faster than anyone i know right now. consider yourself very fortunate.

the worst thing you can do is to sqawk and have fellow aviators with thousands of hours and years of flying experience read this and feel sorry for you. you will get there faster than the conventional method..ie GA...

try going to the GA and let those seasoned veterans hear you about your delays and what you will get is probly respect lost. you will lose respect faster than you can lose altitude on a v1 cut fully loaded..with a micro-burst.

please dont take this as a condecending tone ...its not. you are fortunate to be in this position and please remember, you are not alone and this delay for you will not be the first nor the last.

just remember when asking ATC for clearance and you get a response "standby, theres a slight delay, heavy taking off, caution for wake turbulance." all you can say is "wilco"

while you are waiting take in all you can about navigating, general aviation, accident chain..check out the AOPA web site as they have tons of these info. Also master the jepp chacrts as this will take a while to learn. "you dont use it lose it"

...remember "a good pilot is always learning"

honestly i do feel your situation there as well as the others...

"keep the blue side up" and "keep the needle above blue line" while you are it..

mplcadet
26th Dec 2007, 02:06
Thanks captain.... now i do get your point.... you're right, i should be patient enough to wait and understand the whole situation.

Spinnging asia,

i apologize to you sir... it was a very bad season for me and i was really in the lowest point at that time... i sincerely apologize..

Happy New year to all of you and hope you'll keep inspiring newbies like me...:D

All the best

camper
7th Jan 2008, 05:58
hala ka...:}

jester_icarus
7th Jan 2008, 09:47
congrats.!!!!.. sounds like you have started to fly..

-keep the ball centered
-keep your eyes out
-step on the ball
-think before you talk on the radio
-stay ahead of the aircraft
-dont fall behind the curve
-a good approach=good landing
-always side on safety
-do a checklist on yourself before you go out and fly

...and when in doubt about your approach/landing GO AROUND..dont force it.

"keep the blue side up"

Cessna1052
7th Jan 2008, 10:21
To All the Student Pilots out there,

We understand your excitements, your sentiments and the gripes. The training Program that seems forever to accomplish , but believed sooner or later it will come to an end.
So, for the meantime try enjoying what you like doing most, and thats flying.
Dont Rush, its one thing in our profession that we need to eliminate.
Stay on course and dont jump ahead too far, as this will deviate you from your objective.
Stop dreaming of becoming an Airline Pilot, this will not happen very soon, thats the fact. Concentrate in getting the Knowledge, Proficiency and experience that will boost you towards the career you're looking for. Do it one step at a time. Take care of yourself and yourself alone, No one can draw your future but yourself.

If at this early stage, you whine of many things. There is no way you will pass age 30 without a Hypertension. Not to mention, Your Physical fitness is the most important factor in flying. Companies will not hire a Pilot with a Bad heart, even if you have thousands and thousands of hours.(unless they're desperate for pilots). Whine when you are in the Airline, for it is an everyday thing.

Enjoy every minute of your flight trainings, its the best part of being a Pilot. Its not a job, remember you are paying for the hours. Its a joyride , and what such a wonderful way to do it, by flying it by yourself.

I wish you all success, and I hope that everyone will survive all the test.(Physically).


Cheers,
C1052

mplcadet
9th Jan 2008, 04:08
jester icarus,

thank you captain.. yes, we have strted flying and i am really enjoying every moment of it.. landing isn't really easy especially aiming for that perfect centerline but everyday i wake up i am always looking forward for it. thank you for your advices captain...:ok:


cessna1052,

thank you sir!!! yes, we will enjoy each moment of it... and yes your right, too much whining will lead me to hypertension :)..

thanks to all of you captains who keeps inspiring those aspiring pilots out there..:ok:


8ball,

WELCOME BACK!!! thank you for joining us sir!!!

calvin_1912
15th Jan 2008, 11:06
Hi All!

I heard from some of you that one can get flight training (PPL/CPL/IR) at a lower cost than what Clark Institute of Aviation offers. Would you know of good schools abroad which can offer such and at how much if you are aware? I am thinking of schools in Australia... Would you know of any? :confused:

Thanks everyone! :)

Calvin

spinningasia
16th Jan 2008, 00:24
Calvin

Firstly, Clark Aviation does not offer PPL/CPL/IR training (even if it appears that way at the moment), they offer the MPL (Multi-Crew Pilot License) specifically designed for an A320. The flight training you see and hear about is simply part of that course.

Yes, you can go to Australia and get you licenses, ask Eight Ball about that, especially if you wish to return and fly in the philippines.

If you want to be truely global, go to the states and get an FAA license, you will have a much better chance of having it recognized in other countries.

If you plan to fly in the Philippines, what is wrong with Omni Aviation in Clark, their training is Ok and you will not have all the added expenses of travelling and staying abroard

SpinningAsia

spinningasia
16th Jan 2008, 00:30
MPL_Cadet

Pay attention to Jester_I, his advice will not only keep you and you passengers alive (when you get to that stage) it will make you an excellent pilot and make your experiences most enjoyable

Have you been in the pool yet? I was told in the Pub the other day that Omni are charging by the gallon for the dunkings :ok:

SpinningAsia

calvin_1912
16th Jan 2008, 08:18
Thanks Spinning Asia! Actually, I was thinking of having my flight training abroad for the reason that there are more financial institutions there who are willing to extend credit to pilot students studying in their country. Here in the Philippines, it is very difficult to be able to borrow funds from banks, etc. Or would you know if there are financial institutions here in the Philippines who will be willing to lend out funds?

Eight Ball, would you have suggestions regarding which schools in Australia are good? Did you finish your pilot training in Australia?

Thanks everyone! :ok:

mplcadet
16th Jan 2008, 12:33
Hello captain!

i haven't been in the pool yet, i guess a few more take-offs and landings.. Yes sir, from now onwards i will take all advices given to me coz i believe these will save my life as well as other people in the future..

Keep flying safe sir and please keep those tips coming...:ok:

All the best and God bless!!!

Eight Ball
17th Jan 2008, 00:01
Calvin_1912

Hello there. Yes, I trained in Australia from SPL all the way to ATPL.
I lived there for 21 years. I've only been in Pinas for 5 months.

There are financial institutions who can lend you money for your training but would not just lend to anyone. You must have a job and must be able to repay it of course. They will go through your credit rating as well.
One of the best is HSBC as their rates are competitive. ( and no I have no relatives working there ). :p You must have someone who is an Australian permanent resident to back you up in your application with the banks. Having said that, yes they are very generous in lending. At one stage I had an approval for 15,000 USD to do an A320 TR but aborted it.

If you need a student visa to study there, most schools will be able to help you. I recommend you do the CPL/ME/IR direct course and not go through PPL. I believe this is achivable in 12 months gathering around 200 hours flying time at the end of it. Then get a job as a charter pilot in the outback flying C206 and get the "real" experience progressing to light twins and work as a multi-engine pilot. Go to this website ( www.afap.org.au (http://www.afap.org.au) ) and you'll see that there are tons of jobs available there. People on student visas are allowed to work for 20 hours a week while studying or after finishing. Some have worked as flight instructors after graduation.

The training environment is excellent as they have low-routes for IFR flights and unlimited destinations.

The schools I would recommend are:

Sydney Flight Training Center - look for a guy named Malcolm Poulton - he is one of the best.

Whitworth Aviation - look for Bill Whitworth - he is also top notch

Aerospace Aviation - Sue Davies

BASAIR, Proflite and Crane Air are the other schools.

QANTAS Flying School - they have a cadet scheme going on but you would need permanent residency.

Regional Express is an airline desperately short on pilots amongst others.
They fly the Saab 340.

Alteon Training, QANTAS and Ansett Flight Simulators are the TRTO that have simulators for heavy jet training.

Goodluck

8Ball

Eight Ball
17th Jan 2008, 06:50
Sorry if I mislead you there. The 13,000 USD was for a type rating in the U.S. for the A320.

Try Hard 4.0
17th Jan 2008, 08:15
so after going for the training I have to go
AB-Initio training then
acquire a CPL then log a hundred flight hours
before going for the training . . .

calvin_1912
17th Jan 2008, 09:47
Thanks Eight Ball for all the information!! :ok:

I'll contact the schools which you suggested and inquire on their training packages. Maybe that's the place where I can get my flight training! :D

You stayed in Australia for 21 years! Such a long time! Did you try to apply in Qantas or in other airlines there?

airlinefan
19th Jan 2008, 03:35
Type rating only - come on guys this training anywhere is well over 100K USD - how could it be so cheap.

jester_icarus
19th Jan 2008, 04:01
TR for the AB is about $15K US... REALLY!!!

FLAPLESS2x
19th Jan 2008, 04:02
on the western side of aus. just to give you an idea, i did my CPL/ multi endorsement in 2005. i spent around A$60-70k in total including cost of training, accommodation, food, car (you need one to go around), etc.

just my two cents worth.

calvin_1912
21st Jan 2008, 09:38
Hi Flapless2x! That was in 2005, so by now it should be a bit more expensive... Hehe! What school in Western Australia did you attend?

Calvin

Kaptin Kook
21st Jan 2008, 12:31
The Philippine Peso has been steadily appreciating.

If your savings/income is in Philippine Pesos, then the cost of training outside the Philippines has gone down. Search the web for the PHP's trend. Some say it'll be USD1:PHP38 in 2008.

Its a good time to buy imported goods :ok:

Australia and the US have relatively low inflation compared to the Philippines. Prices there haven't increased as much as in the Philippines.

my 2 centavos ...

pinoypiloto
22nd Jan 2008, 00:56
Flight Training Organisations WA

go to:

Royal Aero Club of Western Australia - a friend trained there and he reckons they're great.

Air Australia - professional and warm outfit.

calvin_1912
22nd Jan 2008, 06:39
Thanks Kaptin Kook and pinoypiloto! :)

I never thought that the appreciation of the peso will have a good effect on my plans of pursuing my flight training abroad... Hehe!

starflyer
24th Jan 2008, 16:42
My Korean friend got his TR on AB320 at Natco, Eagan, MN for $13,000++ only. 320 TR isn't that expensive actually.

Kaptin Kook
24th Jan 2008, 22:14
http://www.alphaaviation.co.nz/

How will this affect CA's plan to have a fleet of Alpha 120s for their Core Flying? Does this mean a new set of aircraft from another manufacturer?

Or a long term relationship with Omni's 152s? :ok:

PPRuNe Towers
27th Jan 2008, 22:24
But fascinating for me to see the IP addresses:}:}

Keep it clean children

Rob

slatch
28th Jan 2008, 06:32
As far as I know there is no reason the Alpha’s can not still be used for training even if the company goes out of business. The few they have will be good for a while. If I what I heard was correct they spent a lot for them, shame to sell them for a big loss. With the US dollar being weak and aircraft prices being low it would be a good time for them to buy up a few used C172’s. Good C172’s with low time airframes (3000-4000 hrs) that have never been used as a trainer can be had for around $40,000 US. (1970-1975 vintage) You overhaul the engines in the US before bring them over, do a structural survey and standardize the panels. Price before shipping would be approx $60,000 each. Figure two to container shipping is $2000 each. Paint and basic interior in Philippines $5000 each . So for around $67,000 USD or 2.75 Million Peso you have a zero time engine C172. ( plus what ever the import duty is) Figure 2000 hour TBO and not counting any damage that is only $34.00 an hour. Then if you rebuild the engine the next cycle is cheaper. Having owned a few C172’s there is very little that can really go wrong if they are maintained well.

slatch
28th Jan 2008, 15:41
I do agree that bringing in a new type was a bad decision, but they seemed to make a lot of them. I would stick to C172's over C150's if I was them. C172's are move avaiable in better shape, allow for an observer, and would be more sellable when necessary. Does not make any sense to source C172's from down under. They are much more expensive and most of them have alot of hours from being used up as trainers. I see at least 2 planes a month being shipped to Aus. (of course if it is another deal to make someone money and not look after the the best interests of CIA) The big difference is you can find low time airframes never used by a school that have been well cared for. Here is an example.

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172/1970-CESSNA-172/1121306.htm?guid=533F1F58BD4A4D92BFA2BDDCC55C41DA

ZFT
31st Jan 2008, 01:25
CTC also ordered 26 Alphas. Are they Amateurs as well?

Eight Ball
1st Feb 2008, 04:13
hi Alexander1018

No bank in the world will lend you money if they think you won't be able to pay it back. So, to answer your question - Yes, you would need a backer or a guarantor to get a loan. Not unless you have a job earning good money and a clean credit rating.


8Ball

Slatch - I've answered your PM. You are most welcome.

Alexander1018
2nd Feb 2008, 16:15
Thanks 8 ball! I guess I still have to ask help from my old man!

King ECAM
3rd Feb 2008, 00:06
I agree with ECAM Actions.

70 hours is a long way from the website min. of 1500. I don't understand why Lancelot agreed to this.

By the way what happened to puliszaido on the other thread. He seems to have good information about CIA.

King ECAM
5th Feb 2008, 07:55
Its the only FTF where the CEO dances.

I hope the parents of the students get to see that video on the other thread.

King ECAM
6th Feb 2008, 09:40
Its a classic case of pay now fly later.

They want to get all the money first then play it by ear if all the BSing will be bought by the parents and students.

Sad to say the Filipinos became the test subject for this. and even Lancelot exposed himself with these people.

sad sad sad

Cessna1052
7th Feb 2008, 15:16
Eight ball,

Is it true that there is no A320 Sim in Clark I.A.? So, why are students resigning from the program?

c1052

ZFT
7th Feb 2008, 20:24
Not true. Cebu Pacific's own A320 FFS is installed there. 2nd sim might be installed by now also?

Eight Ball
8th Feb 2008, 03:24
Alpha12039,

I don't know where you're getting you're information from but don't put words in my mouth. Who is ACCRA ?... don't even know them.

So, please stop making things up.


Hi Cessna1052 - they have a simulator. There's one here now and I'm afraid I can't disclose here anymore than that. PM me and I'll tell you how many more is on it's way. And did someone say students RESIGNED ???.... who ???? Geezzz..... some people are really envious of the school that they are willing to destroy it by spreading bad rumours.

Let me know when you're in the Philippines next pards and we'll go for that drink.:ok: .

Cessna1052
8th Feb 2008, 07:43
Hi 8 ball,

I just read from the Middle east forum about this Dubai Lady student pilot, who resigned from CIA. And apparently She was not able to refund her Money, or a part of it maybe.

I'll see you end of April Buddy.:ok:

Cheers,
C1052

King ECAM
8th Feb 2008, 11:18
oh yes its mud slinging time!

this thread is getting interesting now!!!!

let's bring it on.

valiant05
8th Feb 2008, 11:33
Dubai lady came from one of the more recent classes. There were only around five of them when they started training. Some from her group left after just a few months along with one Indian cadet who got dismissed some time ago. Maybe they left because they couldn’t meet the demands of the 24 week ground school phase. Some Filipino cadets left for financial reasons or just lack of interest in the course.


Clark Aviation operates a Level D A320 simulator, an Alsim and the Alpha 120's and C152's at Omni so there’s no reason for any cadet to be doubtful of the MPL program.

King ECAM
8th Feb 2008, 13:31
Clark Aviation houses the Level D. It doesn't operate it. Lancelot does.

Clark Aviation doesn't OWN any Level D. The only sim they own is the ALSIM. which is fixed base.

please get your facts straight before posting.

PicMas
8th Feb 2008, 19:18
Clark Aviation was not the first to graduate MPL students. A Danish flight school graduated the first batch MPL students in September 2007.

I shall happily stand corrected if anybody can prove me wrong!

Eight Ball
8th Feb 2008, 22:07
King Ecam Clark Aviation operates it and maintains it as well. The level D is with Clark Aviation, it can be used by the cadets and WILL BE USED by the cadets.

We are now in process of adding several more fixed wing trainers ( C172) on top of Omni's fleet.

The first 3 batches of cadets are either now on or approaching their final phases of their Core Flying Skills and will be moving to the advance stage soon ( MCC and A320 ).

ZFT
9th Feb 2008, 02:59
Alpha,

I can assure you I have no tie up with Alpha, Cebu Pac or any other operations at Clark.

Perhaps you would PM me with just who you think I am?

King ECAM
9th Feb 2008, 03:33
Im sorry if I made your blood pressure rise. maybe you should start taking your pills everytime you log in pprune.

just make sure the cadets are scheduled in the Sim.

but before you do that. try to find an IFR 172 for them first. that way they know it feels to shoot an actual approach inside an aircraft.

King ECAM
9th Feb 2008, 03:54
There is no IFR Alpha in that fleet of theirs.

Just look at how many antennas they have. its so easy to tell

King ECAM
9th Feb 2008, 04:16
Sorry to say no IFR 172 as well..........

the saga continues!!!

red gaint
9th Feb 2008, 05:07
Hi there, can anyone clear this to me

-Does MPL lead to ATPL directly?

-As ICAO by itself doesn't provide any license, MPL is provided by member state civil aviation organisations, if so does conversion is needed when you move to other country?

thank you

ZFT
10th Feb 2008, 00:50
After 1500 hours an MPL holder can get his ATPL as the conventional route.

I do not see anyway of converting an MPL licence between authorities.

King ECAM
10th Feb 2008, 08:08
There were talks held recently on how to solve the sim problem. The CEO said that they will ship the cadets to HK (GCAT) to get the A320 type rating.

If this pushes through Clark Av will be the model FTF to outsource flight training and Sim training. The next thing they will outsource is ground school.

Better close the damn place!! If ATO only knows.............

red gaint
10th Feb 2008, 11:03
The first 3 batches of cadets are either now on or approaching their final phases of their Core Flying Skills and will be moving to the advance stage soon ( MCC and A320 ).


Stage
1 – Cadet Assessment
2 – Theoretical Ground School 5 Months
3 – Core Flying Skills 2.5 Months
4 – Basic Simulator Flying 2 Months
5 – Intermediate Simulator Flying 1 Month
6 – Advanced Simulator Flying 1.5 Months
7 – Base Training 1 day

If stage 2 & 3 has taken almost an year

How looooong will it take to finish other stages????

Is it the part of mistake with students or the centre?

mplcadet
10th Feb 2008, 13:40
Is it the part of mistake with students or the centre?



This is the mistake of the managment... LAck of planning.. yes things have moved a bit but it doesn't eliminate the fact that we, cadets, are still delayed with our target schedules. The excuses they're making is weather and ATO.. but never we heard about their planning..

Am not being negative here, just stating facts..

airlinefan
10th Feb 2008, 14:17
Ok I have read this thread and am so sick and tired of the small minded morons who send messags I must comment.

1) All the young stupid people grow up as life is never as simple as yout think it will be.
2) To all who have not even manage their own life stop interfering with a major complex proagram that the current old antiguated cockpit crew can not even try to understand.
3) The tryue babies how old are you who can not fathom the complexities involved in the sysytem should truly shut up and change your diapers.
4) Lastly, you old school pilots whi could not hold candle to my father who flew in WW2 (especially the idiot PAL guys) should truly get a life and quit the business as we do NOT NEED THIS ATTITUDE ANYMORE.


I am so sick and tired of this insane thread I will not log in again and i hope the smart people (few and far between) will do the same. But alas poor warrick I knew him well........................................................ ...........:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

ww1
11th Feb 2008, 02:13
airlinefan,

messags
yout
proagram
antiguated
tryue
sysytem
whi
warrick

Before you complain about how stupid others are, maybe you should at least check your spelling. It might save you a wee bit of embarrassment.
:rolleyes:

mandaragit
11th Feb 2008, 07:15
get out of this thread now for the sake of all. don't go to cebu pac thread either. you are not also welcome there. nobody owes you anything. not even to your father. go get a life elsewhere!:\

Rightwingheavy
13th Feb 2008, 09:24
A flying school without a flight instructor???
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

snuble
13th Feb 2008, 10:04
PicMas (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=29485)



Clark Aviation was not the first to graduate MPL students. A Danish flight school graduated the first batch MPL students in September 2007.

I shall happily stand corrected if anybody can prove me wrong!


I can prove you right! (As my MPL license was issued 30.Aug.2007):D

MPLflyingblind
13th Feb 2008, 13:58
Could you tell us a bit about your life since your graduation on the 30 August 2007....your career with the MPL licence.... As you can see theres alot of issues concerning the licence.....


Oh and 8ball...stop acting like your somebody :=at CIA here on the forum....:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Eight Ball
14th Feb 2008, 22:59
Looks like those outsiders who are not happy with the school or had bad experiences like FourStripes is getting personal against me just because I am trying to do my best to get things moving for the sake of the cadets.


Tell me an organisation ( school, office or government departments ) that had not experienced set backs. I'd be surprised if there is one. You guys are so naive to think that there is a perfect world for you. Wake up and smell the coffee.

These cadets who have persevered will finish one way or the other.


Cheerio

Try Hard 4.0
15th Feb 2008, 04:14
Is Cebu Pacific still offering the scholarship for CIA until now?

Bagoongathipon
15th Feb 2008, 04:24
From Alpha12039
A new GM will be coming over to run the school sometime in the next few days. He will be surprised what kind of burning house he will enter.

The CEO should give him a really good heads up before coming over. Otherwise the students will eat him up. Especially those coming from Course 3, there a handful. Just ask the Chief Ground Instructor."


I heard that those "Course 3 management eater", as you call them, are the ones who made the dormitories cheaper from 10k a month to 5k, the food from Ph100 to Php40 (then came back to Php60), upgrade the amenities, etc etc.

Yes, they are handful, but they're the only people who can stand up for the rights of the us FILIPINOS. Unlike some of the guys who just hide in their laptop bickering and spread rumors through this forum.

Atleast C003 has made a small difference for the betterment of us students.

I, myself, benefited from their assertiveness and pro-active in solving issues.

Alpha12039, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! Kissing asses to get info from the CGI???

spinningasia
15th Feb 2008, 12:27
Well Well Well, seems to me that the people with the most to say are "Newbies" and do not understand the Rules of PPrune either. Most likely, they have changed or added another username so they can remain in the background.

Perhaps you do not know that the Mods, as you call them, can see the IP addresses of the Postees.

Growup Children, PPrune stands for PROFESSIONAL PILOTS, you want to be a Pilot, start acting like one.

Are you going to argue and write nasty notes when things go wrong up at the pointy end???? God help us all if you ever get to be in the front of an A320 and you behave like this!

Stop the personal Crap, NOW!

Spinnning Asia!

mplcadet
17th Feb 2008, 02:05
i have to agree with bagoongathipon, the negtives started because some people were too critical about clark av but kept on denying they are part of it... plus the fact that they know detailed info's...:confused:

Bagoongathipon
17th Feb 2008, 05:04
Alhpa12039 said
you two should be grateful that someone is pointing out the anomalies within the walls of Clark Aviation.
==================
We will be grateful to the people who will stand out and can make changes to the problems that you have pointed out.

I keep on reading your post. You are not pointing out problems, but adding rumors. YOu even create stories. Management admits the fact that there are management issues thats why they are trying to bring in more management people with real experience.

While they have to still show their capabilities, we give them the benefit of the doubt.

We will be grateful to these people who can create changes. We despise people who create rumors. I think your intelligent mind knows that you are the latter.
==================
Alpha12039 said
my dear cadets you haven't seen up to how high this conspiracy reaches. its beyong ATO, Internal Revenue, Immigration, it goes all the way to the top.
==================
Now you're not just pinning CA, but the whole system. ATO? BIR? Immigration? It seems you're new to the country. Where have you been? and you're bitterness to your experience is coming out. Are you sure that you've never been to this organization??

Not being connected to this organization, makes me really wonder how much effort you are putting into this one.

You're credibility is starting to go down.

====================

Alpha12039 said

yor parents who paid your tuition. maybe they should have did their research before deciding on choosing Clark Aviation.

Is this place really world class ?? ask yourselves that.

If you don't, then keep on convincing yourself that it will be alright in the end. but its not the end yet so it won't be alright.

good luck to you dodos!!!!
=================================================

We thank you for your insight. But please, stop adding rumors, saying that you're not part of this organization and yet knows so much about it. Creating extra effort to pull it down.

If a psychologist were to read you're post, he would know how bitter/hatred you have in this organization. Well, we really dont need a psychologist. Its obvious!

Posting the CEO dance with his girls? So what? TELL ME A PERSON WHO DONT DANCE?? Geez.. thats so immature posting that!

You just want to destroy his credibility like what they have done to you. Bringing you down.

Bitterness and Hatred i sense in you Alpha12039! :=

Tip: Dont spend so much time in this thread. Its obvious you just want to bring it down with you. YOUR NOT EVEN PART OF THIS as you said! Crab mentality!

Now thats what you call, unprofessional

Mikkideez
17th Feb 2008, 05:47
You read this thread long enough, and you feel a lot of individuals have no idea what they are talking about.

I am sure that Clark Aviation have all the best intentions to provide world class training...it just so happen that they may be hounded by management issues, and maybe even fall short of expectation of some. But I am sure they are finding ways to fix the problem...it may just be taking just a tad bit too long for others to understand.

Personally I don't have any idea what's going on at Clark, where the students are at this point with regards to their training, nor do I want to side with anyone. Just my opinion, give them a chance...HELP them out, don't chastice them.

For those who criticize a lot on this thread, if your a seasoned pilot....be a bit more professional on criticizm, if you're a newbie....patience is a virtue, and in this profession, especially here in RP, a lot of patience is needed. So relax lang tayo mga pare, let's have a couple of beers...I've got the first round. :}

Cheers and happy flying. Ciao.

PS Alpha12039...grow up man! "See you in the line?" or "It's endorsing time"? If you are at Cebu Pacific, you should know that a majority of the pilots DO NOT believe in that anymore. I sure hope YOU are sharp, cause you sure talk like you are...if you are really from Cebu Pacific. Cheers brother, safe flight. :)

camper
17th Feb 2008, 12:04
what a bunch of whiners! get your acts together! your attitudes at this stage is sickening! you are all fast becoming embarrasments to the profession... still so much to LEARN, BOYS!

shaider
18th Feb 2008, 03:23
Four Stripes, Puliszaido, Alpha12039, these 3 identities in this forum are all newly created account. Read all their post you'll find that they have similarities... They know more all about Clark Av and Omni, these three expresses bitternes and hatred towards Omni and Clark Av..

The true identity of this person hides behind the inital of MP who was fired at Omni and was banned both from Omni and Clark Av due to security threat. Now, dont wait for me to spell out your name clearly in this forum!!

Stop posting here!!! Respect Capt Gomez who has been the pillar of aviation training here in pampanga...

You FOOL!!!!

No wonder you cannot establish a career in aviation ...:}

manina
18th Feb 2008, 04:53
you are totally wrong my friend.

Capt. MP is a great guy. He actually helped me in with my problems there at Clark.

I had to leave the School because it had so many issues. But Im telling you now that the root cause of the problem is the CEO.

Why can't he give me my full refund? And why did he give Shyam the cheater more????

do I need to be a cheater to get my refund??

This school is a fake and so are you shaider!!

shaider
18th Feb 2008, 07:58
Ulol!!! me cpl/ir na ako... tanga!!!

Maglomaniac88
18th Feb 2008, 10:20
CLARK AVIATION WORLD CLASS FACILITIES
http://images.pilot346.multiply.com/image/2/photos/21/500x500/22/IMG_6724.JPG?et=NVPJ1SimZVr1GWqFULkAnQ&nmid=77783837

What are you guys smoking in there?

manina
18th Feb 2008, 13:20
That is a nice picture.

Its the first time I have seen that. I don't usually go to the field but maybe that is why.

I never realized that the situation at the field was that serious. somebody should really report this school to the authorities. Imagine someone like me paying $80,000 to get this kind of facility.

I hope no middle eastern recruit consider Clark Aviation anymore.

Guru8904
18th Feb 2008, 18:09
There is this new set up coming up in Sharjah soon. It is going to be a joint venture between AAG and Air Arabia. AAG recently advertised on "flight" for flt/sim instructors. Any info regarding terms and conditions on offer? What are they paying the flight instructors at CIA? Thanks in advance for responding.

manina
18th Feb 2008, 22:17
Shaider,

I am not a he, Im a she!

who is capt. farinas?

please get your facts straight. Im sorry I did not understand the last sentence. I think it was tagallog or something.

Mikkideez
18th Feb 2008, 23:22
Hey Manina, please don't include me in the "aka" tid bit. I couldn't give a rats arse about MP whoever he or she maybe. Sorry for your troubles at Clark but I had nothing to do with it. :uhoh:

JV126
19th Feb 2008, 01:57
That container is not even owned by CA. It is a depot for spare parts that the cadets happen to just sit that day. I too, while waiting for my flight has sat there and had a conversation with the mechanics and it is unfair to say that this is a whole reflection of the school....

c'mon guys, can't you smell someone who is just trying to blemish the school's reputation.

Come to the school, go to flight ops, the school classrooms and the simulators and then judge for yourself. Ignore these photos that has only one purpose but to destroy the school.

MP was kicked out of Omni and CA because of stupidity and unprofessionalism and up to now is still destroying the good reputation of Capt Gomez and CA with his co-horts out of bitterness.

Things has now started to really move and I am pleased with the results.
It may not be as quick as I wanted to but as someone has said, they have just been hounded by management issues and is now being full addressed.

To those FOOLS who is desperately trying to destroy the name of my school, get a life !!! mga tanga.....

To MP and whoever is paying you to do this - I HAVE A CPL/IR SO DON'T EVEN START WITH ME ABOUT THIS US HAVING NO EXPERIENCE demeaning us cadets. Isaksak mo sa baga mo, bobo !!! Bastos ka talaga. Pati pangalan ng kaibigan naming instructor, idinamay mo pa. What a real jerk you are.

Alpha 6
19th Feb 2008, 09:44
CLARK AVIATION WORLD CLASS FACILITIES
http://images.pilot346.multiply.com/image/2/photos/21/500x500/22/IMG_6724.JPG?et=NVPJ1SimZVr1GWqFULkAnQ&nmid=77783837

What are you guys smoking in there?




Welcome to GEN.AV. guys:E

AvEnthusiast
19th Feb 2008, 10:57
Hello Gents,

Actually I haven't read all the thread because it was too much. But I want to grab something for me. Can anyone tell me How is Philippine Pilot Training Center? Is it recognized by ATO? and does PPTC deliver what it has promised in their fact sheet?

Regards,
AvEnthusiast

bisaya
19th Feb 2008, 11:02
what did they promise you? :hmm:

AvEnthusiast
19th Feb 2008, 11:11
Their fact sheet states that they provide PPL,IR/CPL & ME for $32K including (200 hrs fo flight, books& pilot supplies, uniform, license cost, food & accommodation, reserve-on-account). And that they give itnernship programs.

REgards,
AvEnthusiast

Maglomaniac88
19th Feb 2008, 11:33
http://images.pilot346.multiply.com/image/2/photos/21/500x500/15/IMG_6692.JPG?et=HMgzMyMQONT1AI2egQVZJA&nmid=77783837

My Mommy says "If you work real hard you'll earn your wings and be the world's top crop sprayer"

bisaya
20th Feb 2008, 09:37
i have been in this forum for quite some time now. these days, i hear people (newbies especially) talk, complain, whine like its really hell out there. :sad:

it this really true? or it just a case of kids grown in a world of instant coffee, fastfood and just add-one egg soups that they think there is such a thing as an instant pilot? :=

guys, please do not draw a bad impression for the MPL. it is in a very questionable state the way it is now, please not make things worse. that is your own future anyway.

accio
25th Feb 2008, 13:22
Manina,

speaking of cheating... i think it's best to inform ATO how systematic cheating is happening inside Clark Aviation. All of the exam results are tainted. From what i remember from my Philippine Air Law Class, if a student is found guilty, he will not be issued a license. I know we can't point fingers now - but at least we can show the ATO how the cheating is done here. the worst is, the management found out about it but they didn't do anything.

Syam threatened the management that he will tell ATO everything if he will not be given full refund. You can do the same!

my fifty cents.... or maybe less

ecole-du-ciel
26th Feb 2008, 05:01
Its pretty obvious that the organization is running out of resources. If you werent able to refund the full amount of your money, It just means that you werent a good negotiator.

CIA was the biggest mistake of my life. Its a good thing that I was able to jump boat early while there were life boats available.

ww1
26th Feb 2008, 06:06
9ball
What's a "nish"?? :rolleyes:

EECEPR
26th Feb 2008, 06:58
Well since new computers come out every day should we stick to the old slide rule - no way - these new modern planes are a breeze to fly but this new technology needs new methodology so per ICAO (which took years to develop) is the way to go. As I am old school I still believe in changing and the MPL program is much much better that today's antiquated system of flying a small plane for thousands of hours in an non-multicrew environment. So oldies in with the new out with the old and retire and let the new generation take over.

:8

Eight Ball
26th Feb 2008, 08:39
As they say, there is only one permanent word and that is the word "Change". Roll with the times or we get left behind.

roboratski
26th Feb 2008, 08:50
"MPL is the future, no doubt about it, old timers don't like it cause they are jealous they had 2 go the long way. 5 years from now it's all MPL, best thing is we get PPL as well with a simple check ride. Support MPL as it's for the new generation pilots!! We are the future in the skies:ok:"


MPL is all about saving on costs ... you are the product of this cost cutting.....:yuk: