BE 200 OPERATION IN AFRICA

[GUSTO]

I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM BE200 PILOTS , OPERATORS IN AFRICA. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PLANE IN TERM OF PERFORMANCE, PROFIT AND OPERATION IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD ? I AM VERY INTERESTING ABOUT EVERY GOOD AND BAD COMMENTS.

LOOKING TO HEAR FROM YOU ,

GUSTO

[The General]

Gusto
The 200 has to be one of the better machines for African operations. It is extremely versatile in that it has the range to cross a country the size of D.R.C. without refuelling and can then tackle a 1000m strip with ease. One just has to look at it's success story for Raytheon/Beechcraft. You don't sell that many machines easily.
I would imagine that they are profit makers for the owners judging by large numbers of them flying for the various UN organisations. From a pilots perspective, I have been flying one for over a year in Central Africa with few problems and rate it as one of the best machines about in its class. Its a pleasure to fly and is responsive to input which is often needed here. The locals seem to think that runways and airstrips make good grazing grounds for livestock and even better markets, making go arounds par for the course. The only other aircraft that rivals it for bush operations is the Caravan, if only they could extend the range. Having said all of the above, there are plenty of Russian machines about plying their trade and they also seem to be doing well.
;)

[4granted]

Generali/LRS/UN100/HC100/// is right..well put. But!! Its weak! Those wing spars have come a drift on a couple of times ..respect the CG and your turbulence speeds and youll grow old. Chase the Barbers pole and CIAO!
Hey General , are you going home for christmas...can I come and relieve you for a bit, apparently need to settle some outstanding bills there and here for that matter....Swissair has screwed up the market here a wee bit..
cheers
kik the tyres light the fires ..God I love the smell of the new Jet A 1 aftershave!!
hb4g

[ 05 October 2001: Message edited by: 4granted ]

[FINNISHED]

On careful scrutinization of the Jeppesen HL 11/12. A flight across the D.R.C in a BE20 that block TAS's at 285 kts would infer one pax plus crew, which questions its "extreme versatility" and financila viability. Although landing comfortably within 1000m is run of the mill, the ASDA and net take-off path performance seem to be somewhat outside the ICAO requirements...? However, my findings are based on the old (1994) BB model graphs. I have negligently not attained the latest performance graphs and am VERY eager to get my hands on them, so I too can achieve the mentionned performances, increasing revenue to my operator and securing my future position, even though I do not hold a TEST PILOT rating.
An added note to one of the "better machines":
GENERAL pls fax suggestions on how I could reduce my two pages of differed snags and AOG snags to 0800-LETSBSCAA
Provided that the above mentionned snag list excludes the aircon, it IS a "pleasure to fly"... :confused: :cool:

[Airforce1]

General,Your input seems full of onhand experiance yet have you ever flown in Nambia though? :rolleyes:

[putco]

I have plenty hours in the type in 36 African holes as well as Asian. It would be my choice of aircraft anyday.

[The General]

Airforce 1
"Nambia" ... If you mean Zambia then yes, 4 months on a C208. If you mean Namibia, then also yes, 7 months on a C210.
Finnished
Just shows you what a good machine it is to be able to fly with all those snags.
4Granted
Hope to see you here soon, otherwise there is talk of something starting in Somalia. Speak to the Big man down South.

[4granted]

Putco
Try SABENA theyre looking for busdrivers......in Lome...Otherwise hows it going....
Generali
Cheers mate, got your email...and yup Im in contact with the Big man...
Might be somthing happening here soon...pizza making in a little shop down the road...
cheers big ears
4g ;)

[4144r]

Hi General,
Did you fly in zambia for dhl on the 208?
Because i don't know other c208 in zambia (if it was before may 2001)
If yes,please give some infos about this operations.
Thanks and safe fly.

[Airforce1]

We are onto you mate!I know who you are General,....enjoy ;)

[The General]

4144r
I flew the Van for DHL. The dynamics of the operation have changed and unfortunately I am not sure who is running the operation now. Your best bet is to chat to one of the pilots who come into Lusaka regularly.
Airforce 1
Okay, so you know who I am! Who are you? Any clues?
4granted
I'll have some Afghan bacon and banana on my pizza please. Don't burn the base!!!
Happy landings to all who might find themselves based in the various holes!!!!
:p

[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: The General ]

[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: The General ]

[putco]

4Granted

Hey Bwana - drop me a mail and let's catch up, it has been some water under the bridge since I did a Lome runner when I heard you were coming in!!

Cheers - Putco :p

[Max Torque]

putco is right: one of the finest aircraft ever built. I would fly one any day. There is really just no other mass production aircraft out there that has its short/rough field performance and fast cruise. As for tearing the wings off them, the few times that has happened, it would have killed any other aircraft except perhaps a Jetstar (four engine bizjet from the 60's). I know of a guy who forgot to set his flaps on a F90, stalled out at about 50' and made a very hard three point landing. They had to truck the plane out, but the wings were still firmly attached to it. Come to think of, same thing with a 200 and they flew that one out after having a very close look at it. It was a bit crooked though and needed a 1000 hours of TLC when the mechs got it back.
Now the 200 is not the cheapest, but it is rugged, reliable, espescially the engines, and 1200NM with a 60-100 minute reserve is possible if you are careful and use LRC to adjust. Mind you I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the Congo, but to each his own.
Great aircraft-highly recommended.
putco: probably see you soon, keep beer cold, look after Barbie Jet :) ;)

[irmscher001]

I wonder if you could spend a minute or to advise me on Flying in South Africa, any tips or advice, however limited will be most appreciated!

I'm an Instructor in the UK, with all the ratings and Frozen ATPL CPL/IR, MCC, TT 800 etc (Current on Seneca II)
and want to move on to Charter work, flying anything that's got two engines, literally the King Air would be excellent but I'd settle for anything.

I know a friend who did very well out in SA, and i'm told that there is plenty work out there. I'm single and prepared to give it a whirl but need advice as to the best way to make it happen.

Is the King Air a good rating to get in/for SA employment ?, how much will it cost ? and who's recruiting ?

Should I consider going out on holiday to look around ? or do you think I should try and get contacts to speak to through you good ppruners ?

Best of luck to you all, and hope to get some tips real soon.....

Email: [email protected] ;)

[kuzzin]

001
This question gets asked a lot,and so far Im seeing that its not being responded to. There should howerver be loads of info in the archives, but I dont know if the search engine is up and running anymore.
For you Ex pat guys coming out to Sunny SA, Its not that easy as we all suffer from the Affirmitive action. There are a lot of young pilots like myself looking for work here in SA (being Seouth Efrikun of course)Ive been trying to get a King air on my licence for a couple of months now and they are very difficult to find for hire and fly or training, and of course very expensive with our Ronds falling through the aarse....
So good luck but I recomend you stay in "sunny" Uk and leave Africa to us Africanophones...
no hard feelings..
ps maybe sombody would like to post a detailed list of procedures and companies who would assist in giving our work away to expats looking for jobs.

:( :( ;)

[putco]

Hello Max Torque Chap, call me dumb but "Barbie Jet?"

Never hassle - beer is always cold, and there is enough of it, just drop by... :D

[Sir Cumference]

The 200 is a great aircraft for Africa. In terms of wing failures, from what I understand is that there have been either three or four in the history of the King Air and one of these was on a 90. Each time the wing has failed just outboard of the aileron/flap line. That is not a bad failure rate if you consider what the King Air has been put through and if you consider the numbers. About 1750 200's, (civil), 250 300's, over 1600 C90's etc. If you consider the hours flown by this fleet, you will gain further respect for this aircraft. Expensive to run, yes, but aviation is generally expensive these days.All in all, give me a 200 in Africa any day!

[Jam Doughnuts]

Have not heard that many 200's that lost a wing, with one the rumour goes that it was down to damage not been repaired correctly, but same place outside edge near airleron. couple of good people lost in that one......the other was i think in namibia some time back, accident report said something about selecting reverse in flight....say no more !!
Once saw a 200 take 26 pax during emergency evacuation and still fly a couple of hours back to base. others operating have well over the 20,000 hrs mark.. DC3 mark 2 by the sounds of it..Not a bad bus at all..... :cool:

[Lima Xray]

Can any of you guys give info or your own experience about landing problems/failures with the BE90 and / or BE200? I know of own experience and of other pilots that the nose wheel needs to be looked after in terms of maintenance i.e. steering problems and I know of one ‘spontaneous’ nose wheel collapse on a BE200 on landing!

Cheers
LX

[putco]

Hi - I have never had any hassles with the 200 nose wheel, even on the roughest tracks. Knocked the gas out of a B1900 nose oleo though on some nasty PSP.

MaxTorque - BarbieJet understood and will scream to Abuja on Sunday. How about some cold Tiger beer? :p

[Max Torque]

Quite long this ended up being. Oh well….

Nose wheels….lemme see…..I have lost the hydraulic fluid out of the nose wheel a few times. Never by bashing it to bits though. I seem to remember a cracked seal. It is not a big deal, although if you land without being aware of it and thump down the nose, it will scare you to death. If necessary, just crank it up and fly to your nearest friendly mechanic and have him fix it. Make sure you make a very smooth landing when you get there. Proceed to bar. Collect salary.
Nose gear collapses seems to be the leading cause of B200 write-offs. I haven’t really made a study of it, but I have flown a 200 where this happened (not with me in it), and it came to nice halt, parked on its nose. Bit of panel beating, two new props, two new engines and a new nose gear later, it was as good as new. One of the few weakspots the B200 has is here. There is a spring or bungee or some other device in the nose gear steering rod (in the nose bay, slightly left of centerline looking forward) that physically connects the rod that comes down from the pedals to the top of the nose gear assembly. It is attached to the gear with a bolt. This steering rod itself is some kind of piston arrangement and in the casing around the “thick” part of the piston, just where it becomes the “thin” part, there are four hoop like pins that protrude slightly from the casing. If these pins are more than say 10 mm out, go get a mechanic and ask him. If the bolt is missing, run and get him. My understanding is that the pins help secure the bungee/springy thing inside the piston, and if it cuts loose, the nose wheel will eventually decide to put itself at a 90 degree position. The gear will not do this during taxi and take-off, nor while retracting, where it will be held perpendicular by rotational inertia for long enough to retract. It may bang around as it comes up, because of the gyroscopic forces caused by its movement during retraction. When the gear comes down, it will at some point settle at right angles to the direction of flight, and once you land it will quickly be ripped off, and life will get really interesting. People I have talked to who have had the bungee/spring cut lose have heard a loud snap/clack/thud from under their feet. This has always happened (obviously) during taxi operations. The hoops and bolt are very well worth checking on the pre-flight, as well as the actual physical presence of the connecting rod…….stranger things have happened, and the gear will cycle quite happily on jacks without the rod installed.
Next week: the secret life of the underfloor main gear circuit breaker in a B200.

Putco: happy birthday and Abuja you can keep. Word of advise: refuse to pay anything at the airport, except fuel.The magic words are “Protocol Office” Worked a few times back. Take golf clubs – the golf club in Abuja is very beautiful, but the caddies are thieves. ciao

[Jam Doughnuts]

Do remember a landing where the brake locked on one the right hand main wheels..... full reverse on the left side, lota brakes as well on the left side and new extention for the rudder pedal.... kept it on the runway but only just......and still had 4 good tyres remaining.... still to this day dont know why... murphy was still sleeping i guess :D

[Lima Xray]

Guys many thanks

Max Torque you are a star. Thank you for taking all the trouble you have taken to describe in detail the potential nose landing gear problems. Your information seems to match an incident my friend had with his BE200 as you described. He was very happy with this info as he felt that he was unjustly under criticism that he may have made a hard landing. It’s always easy to blame the pilot in first instance. I know him well has a couple of thousand hours on type and is one of the better pilots I know.

Will report back to you in due course if not by e-mail.

In meantime I will lookout to the secret live of ‘your’ microswitch....
:)

Take care
L-X

[putco]

Max Torque, back home

Abuja - everythings a breeze when the jets on the Presidential apron.

City itself, well I can't decide which was worse, the traffic or the BA girls at the pool!

Cheers - keep well :eek:

[4granted]

I seem to remember reading in the 200 POH that the wing loading is 3g. This figure is halved when approach flaps are selected ie. 1.5g wing loading..not a hell of a lot. I know that some people use approach flaps to slow down, but would rather chuck the Dunlops as that doesnt reduce wing load. I remember speaking to an Engineer who worked on the USA Embassy 200s that float around Africa (Rovers or Rangers think their callsign) and he told me that the embassy a/c had 1900 wing spars in them for this reason and of course a lot of them have the tip tanks.....
Its a wonderful bread and butter a/c as they say..you got one on your licence you'll always have somthing to eat.

Putco you tart how many times do you want to bang your head with those goddang toasties.....poopscoop!
Hope your keeping my seat cleen for me...
hb4g..

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 4granted ]

[putco]

4G

Bwana - while I am here it is the cleanest that seat is going to be! Talking about the 200, wouldn't mind getting back into it again, there are some great rivers down here that need observing.

Have you called yet?

[4granted]

Putco vacuum cleaner...
Called..man was in Paki...sent the required..no news...---...-..- ..--___ _
will call again me thinks asap...how do you like your pizza bwanna mkubwa sanna!!
BARIDI!!!!
hb

[putco]

My pizza, hmmm let me see. Have you ever heard the sound of an Mi8 rotor slowing down then you'll realise the gearbox is lubed with sand, so no Ruskie Helo jesus nut on mine thanks!

Keep trying, send to HQ but phone Paki, good man to chat to and on our level.

Fambai Zvakanaka - Pfumo re Putco :p

[Max Torque]

Well after the positive reviews of my ode to the nose gear, I will put down a couple of words on the main gear motor circuit breaker. This only applies to those of us unfortunate enough to be flying a B200 old enough to have electric gear; Beech long ago swapped the electric motor with a hydraulic system, just like the 350 and the 1900. It makes less noise, which is nice from a pilots point of view, since it tends to freak out the pax less. Whether its more reliable than the electrical system I couldn’t say – I have certainly never had a problem with the hyd. system. But since the guys at Beech generally seem to have a moderately good grip on these things, there must be some $$$$ advantage to it.
To Lima X-ray, reference that mate of yours, I am pleased to hear that this made his day. Not being a total stranger to unwarranted persecution, it warms my heart to be able to alleviate someone else’s. If he wants to know more about it, I suggest he goes and gets a detailed description from a mechanic. This highly undervalued species knows more about B200’s than the rest of us put together have forgotten.
OK, the deal with the main gear is this: Although there is a circuit breaker which controls the landing gear motor (conveniently located just next to the gear handle, so the check pilot can pop it when you ask him to select the gear down, thereby setting you up for a nasty fright and a total bust on your recurrent), it is for the solenoid which activates the gear motor – not the motor itself. The motor itself has a 200 AMP (somebody jump in here if I got it wrong) CB, which lives under the floor near the main spar, along with various other bits and pieces.
Now in a hypothetical scenario, the gear motor for some reason is overloaded and this CB blows. Possible ways to make this happen are by something (typically the gear door) getting stuck in the way during retraction. Big deal, you say – we’ll just crank it out. Well……this is the obvious thing to do. It will almost certainly work. But sometimes it won’t, because the door (or whatever) has jammed up the gear nice and tight, and you can not physically un-jam it by desperately hauling on that red handle. The motor however, is a lot stronger than us puny pilots, and if you can get it running again, it will probably shove the gear out along with whatever jammed it in the first place. The reason it stopped was that it got overloaded going up and blew the CB, so taking your handy leatherman thingy with you, and disregarding the concerned looks from the SLF you get under the floor near the main spar and you find that sucker and you reset it. Popping the gear control CB while you are performing this dazzling feat is an excellent idea, but you should already have done that while doing your failed manual extension.
If it works, land normally, proceed to bar and then re-negotiate salary based on the cost of fixing two engines, props and a lot of panel beating, plus some underwear and handkerchiefs. If not, well at least you tried.
Oh yeah, this isn’t really in the books either. It happened to some people I knew. Fortunately they had a mechanic at the end of a VHF radio who they could discuss their woes with. Very useful people, these mechanics. We should endeavour to buy them more beer from our ill gotten gains.

[drop bags bar]

Ahhhh the great African Urban Ledgend way of understanding King Airs :D :D :D

Max Torque: A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing....knowledge you pick up in a bar can be even more hazardous. For starters that CB next to the gear handle is the "Landing Gear Relay" CB and not the Solenoid (solenoid is what stops you pulling the gear up on the ground)....two very different functions. The Relay CB doesn't protect the motor in any way, it is put there to give the pilot control over the actual relay so you can do things like manual gear extensions, over ride the Landing Gear motor if necessary etc.

As for opening up the floor boards and re-setting breakers....Why do you think Beech went to all the effort to keep that overload protection circuit away from the pilots???? 200 AMPs is a huge current, nearly 15 times that that comes out of your household socket. At the risk of being too brief about the system, the gear motor has a clutch that disengages the motor from the the torque shafts etc. to prevent damage should the system friction exceed a preset value. The manual system does not have this protection (that's why you stop pumping as soon as you get 3 greens) and yes you are stronger than the motors clutch, sure you might need to use leverage as a last resort.

Hope the above prevents a future gear up landing with a cabin fire going at the same time!
_____________________________
King Air 200 Training Captain for a large North American King Air opr.

{Edited to tone down statement}

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: drop bags bar ]

[Max Torque]

drop bags bar:

Duly noted.

And a little relief to have someone with a bit more technical depth than me. The relay/solenoid thing is beyond me, as I have no reference material here, but the point was that the CB near the gear handle doesn’t control the motor, it controls the circuit that controls the motor, and I think we agree on that.
However……

On the first charge: Innocent. Knowledge not solicited in bar. Personal experience related by colleagues after the fact. Note that I said that they were in touch with a mechanic via VHF. The mechanic provided the fix, the crew were just operating under his directions. If it worked once, it would seem to be valid to me.

On the second charge: Guilty. A little knowledge is dangerous and I hate the idea of pilots pulling up floorboards and poking around 200 AMP CB’s (or anything else down there, for that matter). This is a last resort kind of thing, certainly not encouragement to anybody to apply procedures outside the POH, especially the adjustment of non-accessible equipment by untrained and non-approved personnel. Let us be clear on that.

However as pilots we are obliged to safeguard our airframe and pax to the maximum extent of our professional skill and ability. If, in the scenario I outlined, the crew elected to land the aircraft without messing under the floor, nobody would be able to censure them for so doing. Personally, I would go back there, tear up the floor and see what there was to be done, because I would kick myself for not trying at my level of experience. That is a personal judgement call, and does not mean that I would think lesser of somebody who decided not to, or didn’t know that it was an option, because frankly, this is something that isn’t taught and for good reason.

Africa generates a mind set that is not generally found outside the continent. Quite often you are left to swing in the wind by distance or circumstance, and the only person who is going to get you out of what your in is you. I have heard of more sneaky fixes for B200 snags from pilots and mechanics in Africa than I ever heard outside the continent. It is generated by necessity and having to think on your feet. The fact that this thread was started in the Africa forum and not on the GA forum is evidence enough for that. In North America, it would not be difficult to get an mechanic on the radio and talk it through. With all due respect, and not without some envy, life is not like that in Africa. It makes you a little more prepared to proceed with things that are not really in the book.

Anyway, I appreciate that you toned down the reply. This is after all a debate forum, and I do not claim in anyway to hold all the facts or the solutions. I think its great that somebody with more technical insight than me chose to jump in, and I think that anybody reading this should carefully consider your points of view, because they are very valid. In the mean time, I will personally continue to speak softly and carry a long screwdriver.

Best regards

MT

[kilifi]

Hey Mate,
Try Kenya for work, I did in 90's.
Although be prepared to stay for a few months for your Licence etc and go through all the bull....

Cheers,

Oh yeah, be quick or SA's will beat you to it..

[wings level]

Flew a 200 and B200 in southern Africa for a few years, now fly a Dash 8. Guess what, the 200 beats it hands down.

Also remember where the outer wing of your 200 / 100 / 90 originally came from?

Does it look familiar to those other fine Beech products called Bonanza and Baron.

[contraxdog]

I have currently in exess of 5000hrs of which nearly 2000hrs has been on 200's. I have oprerated them into and out of fields that could make the top 10 Lists of "Do's and Dont's ". Sand, Mud, Short, Soft, Potholed(Bomb Craters) Terrible surface.etc etc.
I have operated them to all the limits that were set by Mr Beech and co and some times weight wise beyond.
It has always done what I have asked of it. It has kept me alive in Africa for the last eight years on contracts from the Equatorial Rain forest, North African deserts and Angolan Bushveld. I have flown them in torrensial rain ice and on beutiful clear days.
I flown them home with 80 snags or more. I flown them with no snags.
Couple of rules,
1.You fly on indicated airspeed,
2. You dont know who flew the aircraft before you, or what they did with it.
3. Red means dont go there...........
4. Nose wheels are for taxi, and not to land on.(Keep the wheel of the bloody ground)
If I never fly any other aircraft in my life I would be proud to say I was a King air driver and will be one as long as the privelage is granted to me.
It might be true to say its expensive to operate, if you measure it agains the one engine wonders (Read Pissy 12), but there is and will always be just one KINGAIR.
Look at the numbers of them operating around the world.Numbers talk and bul**** walks(or was it money?
Well sorry about the ranting and raving but I am a follower of the KING!!

[Gunship]

Contraxdog,

You make me think ... I have never thought this way ... but two aircraft that comes to mind after 25 years (17 plus military - bushwar and all), only two really stands out like ... uhmm yes ..

The Alouette III - man o man ... 1200 hours command and what a pleasure .. never ever had sh*t with a Allouette, shot up to pieces ... flew through wires with the canopy without perspex and never ever had a problem. Once could not start (igniter coil failed). Org Kriel the Flight Engineer just spurted fuel from his mouth into the back and lit the flame and I pressed ignition and away she goes ... oh and the tailpipe was also wonderful to heat up the "boeliebeef"

The other (and closer to the topic), 800 odd hours on a Citation II SP. What a damn pleasure to be associated with a Citation (or Near Jet as the Learjet guys will call it !)

I once had a brake failure on old VLAMGAT's Wonderboom airport .. pure engineer fault but I landed her on a sixpince and stopped very suddenly therafter (thrust reversers) and turned off at the usual turn off.

I remember we had to choose between a King 300 and the Citation and it was purely the speed and range that was the overwhelming factor. 1000 nm ( I think) and one pax for Parliament sessions.

I miss her ... in the mean time a BK 117 is not on my favourite list .. a CASA 212 is .. but I hated the engines on the 300 series (Garret's)... 400 series came out with P & W's and surely must be a hughe benefit.

The Puma.. she was nice the Harvard ... ok Gunship ... go to bed ... go to bed now !

Bye for now,

[Gunship]

RAISBECK CONVERSIONS

Paging throught the latest SA Flyer I saw the ad on the Raisbeck conversions. Just wondering how they worked in reality - especially Africa ?

4 Blade Props ?
Duel Aft body stakes - I have seen them on more than one occasion.
Ram air recovery
Enhanced Leading edges?
High flotation Gear doors
Nacelle Wing Locker - seems like a nice idea for golf clubs ..

Have a great FATHER's DAY !

[south coast]

so the general....you reply to the airplane topics but not other ones...?
hows it going?
myself and pq are in fnlu for a while and almost died the other night....what a story!
when are you back?

[contraxdog]

My humble biased opinion left me to conclude the following:

1.It gives me more airspeed to work with safely.
2.Better handling at lower speed,
3.Shorter takeoff runs out kak strips,
4.Landing at slower speeds into kak strips
5.Better climb.
6.It sattisfies my need for speed at altitude.
7.Better ground clearance for the props.
8.Increased Zero fuel weight.
9.All in all it makes me feel better about my limited abilities to keep the hides of my pax and most of all my own intact.
10.Allowing me to still fly on that verrry hot a African afternoon



What I dont like:
1.Increased sensitivity operating it in visible moisture,
2.Higher prop RPM's at idle,
3.Increased ascemetric discking as you close the power for landing,

As I have said before numbers talk and bull**** walks.
10 to 3 does it for me.

As allways

[126.9]

Your postings always make really cool reading. I know squat about the topic: I'm a Classic driver. But I learn and giggle all the time. Tks!!!:D

[Gunship]

Very interesting contraxdog, very interesting but I pressume you ONLY speak about the blade conversion if I understand you correct ?

As posted earlier during my carreer I / we had to make a decission between a King 300 and a Cit II SP. It is sad that I never even saw the King Air - never mind flying it and the decission was purely made upon the "brochure facts" and we know what kak we are talking about now .... :D

But in hind -site I still think the Citation was great for what we used it and we never had to land on a dirt strip anyway (if you can call Zanzibar a tar strip (in the early 90's) ..

All for now : sorry no chirps 126.9 .. uncle Gunship is watching Tiger taming Garcia, but he's got Martina Hinges on hand so you never know !

Cheers,

[Clogmaster]

Hey South Coast

Was it the beers at our party that nearly killed you or did you nearly run into some friendly local AK47 fire????

:D :D :D

CM

[south coast]

clogmaster.....reveal yourself.....but i think it was probably a combination of the two.