CHC global - Pilots and Engineers

[Heli-Jet]

CHC/ACN is probably the start of things to come in the future.


Nationals should get paid the same as their expat counterparts
Should get the same 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off
Should get the same Canadian benefits (medical, dental pension etc)
and the CHC benefits book outlining all the benefits.After all they are doing the same job in places like Nigeria, Thailand, Vietnam, Equatorial Guinea, Baku just to mention a few places. Why the discrepency can anyone explain this !!!!

[twisted wrench]

Heli-jet:
Try explaining the discrepancy why CHC Global Pilots and Engineers don't get the same pay as there CHC counterparts in the UK and Norway????

[killabeez]

You have to be kidding ?

I have been told that the 'Engineers' dont even get paid the same rate in the 'SAME' country, so how the heck is it going to work worldwide ?

[pitchlink]

We would all like to have the same P & Cs as the Norwegans and get taxed in our hame country. Even the UK!!!!

[Buitenzorg]

Why the discrepency can anyone explain this !!!!
Where to start...

Cadetships. ACN has trained many, many Nigerians completely ab initio - should this be provided for expat employees too?

First Officers. ACN is by (Nigerian) law prohibited from employing expats as First Officers. Should this part of the playing field get levelled too, i.e. no Nigerian pilot employed with less than 3500 hours TT, 1500 hours multi and an ATPL?

Separation from family. Should ACN start locking Nigerian pilots and engineers in compounds, no family visits, for the duration of their work hitch, which should be 6 weeks like the expats?

Legal protection. At present, the Nigerian pilots are on a legally sanctioned strike. What, pray tell, will happen if the expatriate pilot corps decide to down tools en masse?

Stability. Expatriate employees can be transferred to another operation halfway around the world at the convenience of the company (CHC). Refuse to go and you're history. Local allowances at your new base could be less than before. Should CHC be free to transfer out any Nigerian pilot or engineer they want?

Etc., etc., etc.

Now, if ACN's Nigerian employees want all the conditions of expatriate employees, good and bad alike, and in effect become contractors, more power to them, but I suspect they are loth to give up the shelter provided them under Nigerian law. I also suspect that they know this very well - the ones I've met never struck me as unrealistic - and these demands are a negotiating move.

[Heli-Jet]

CHC Globaol are rotating their low time FO's through Helijet in Vancouver to give them some experience on the S76 and then putting them online offshore as FO's.

They were forced to take FO's in Angola, local boys from the fixed wing side and now they work as FO's on the SK76's. Some of the locals have been promoted to Captain but dont have the same pay as expats, I sure wouldn't want their living conditions. They wouldn't mind working in Thailand, Vietnam, Baku or Myanmar.

Same deal in Thailand where Expat Captains were doing 20 days on 10 days off. Local Thai's didn't get paid the same as the expat Captains for the same work done .... Explain that one. I believe that they hired the first Thai female FO who was trained from scratch:D

Same deal in Yangon and Kanbauk with the local FO they haven't been promoted to Captain status either:=

CHC have been training a couple of Equatorial Guineans from scratch in Canada and South Africa but haven't seen the flight line in EG. So why not Nigerians who actually know how to speak English !!!!

[Heli-Jet]

CHC could rotate Nigerians into Equatorial Guinea, South Africa, Namibia, Angola or Sierre Leone to keep their expenses down and give the Nigerians a chance to build up their Offshore time. CHC Africa did take Angolan FO's to Nigeria back in 2000.

I believe the General Manager for CHC in Cape Town is a Nigerian ... so if there is a will there is a way!!!

This way if Nigerians were trained and could eventually be promoted to Captains. CHC wouldn't have the problem of trying to get expats to go to Nigeria.

[quichemech]

ACN I take means Areocontractors Nigeria, a registered nigerian company that I think may have had offices in Cyprus:rolleyes:

So does that means you would get which rate? Maybe even the good old Dutch Schreiner rates, how about Dutch tax too:uhoh:

Just a point.
:rolleyes:

[twisted wrench]

Heli-jet:
Would it be a safe bet that you are on the "national's"(what ever country you are tasked to work in) pay scale and not on the "CHC Global Expat" pay scale?

[Heli-Jet]

So you see I am on a half descent wage, no great shakes. Wouldn't want to be on the other side of the fence

[MamaPut]

quickmech,

ACN is Aero Contractors Nigeria Limited, a Nigerian company, with principally Nigerian directors, mostly from the Ibru family, who have many other interests such as banking (Oceanic Bank), fishing, hotels. With one or two notable exceptions such as the NLNG where the level of investment was such that the foreign investors demanded a 50% stake, Nigerian joint venture companies are at least 60% Nigerian owned. The Cyprus offices to which you referred are those of Aviation Personnel Recruitment and Management (APRAM). This was set up by Schreiner Airways, the former foreign partner in ACN, and was the vehicle for employment of expatriate pilots and engineers. There are only a few expats still employed on APRAM contracts. Since Schreiner was taken over by CHC, all new expat hires are now employed by CHC Global on very different contracts from the old APRAM ones and are paid in $CAD. The Ibru family, by and large leave the operational running of the company to CHC and the Managing Director is a Belgian. CHC have invested considerably more in terms of new equipment, than Schreiner did in its latter years, and they have turned the loss-making fixed wing division round into an expanding, successful and popular airline which was voted Nigerian Airline of the Year in 2005.

The GM for CHC Global in SA is indeed a Nigerian, as is the Bristow GM in the Northern North Sea. But then the Deputy MDs of both ACN abd Bristow are both Nigerian, and it seems like a good bet that the next MD of Bristow Nigeria could well be a Nigerian.

Both CHC and Bristow are sending Nigerian pilots overseas for ab-initio flight training (mostly to School 43 in SA at present, though that may change with Bristow having recently bought HAI - depending on visa issues in the USA for Nigerians).

[quichemech]

Mamaput,

Thankyou for that comprehensive reply.

[unstable load]

If a Nigerian, Angolan, Equatorial Guinean, Thai or little green man from Mars wants to go on the international circuit with CHC, Bristow, Heli Union etc etc there is NOTHING stopping them from applying to those companies for a job. These days even licensing is not as much of an issue as previously with local registered aircraft in lots of countries.

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams foul at that statement, YES, they do already work for the companies in question, but they applied for and got those jobs under terms THEY AGREED TO, so they can also apply for a job with Global Ops, Bristow International or whoever.
I worked for a member of the CHC group and when I asked to go onto the then International division I was told that I had to resign my current post and re-apply for International and go through the same selection as anyone else would.

Then they can earn the big bucks and also enjoy the luxury of being stuck in Bumfcuk, Thirdworld with sporadic internet and $15 per minute phone calls home, often looking over their shoulders all the time as they are foreigners and a target for mugging or kidnapping (funnily eneough because they are earning the big bucks).
Then the 12 hour day sometime becomes a reality where YOU get to decide for yourself on a single ship operation and you live by the decision, and the previously boring shift of 8 hours in PH or wherever where you got told to do this inspection on that machine before going home to mommy and the kids is a distant memory.
Then they can also eat camp food with the nationals from whichever country they are in knowing that their presence is resented and they are despised because of what they are, FOREIGNERS!

All that is holding them back is their own lack of will to improve their lot in life. The international circuit does NOT have a union to support you, and mommy and kiddies are FAR AWAY and often you need to rapidly learn a new language just so you can eat a halfway decent meal.

Take control of your own destinies, guys and if you think a strike is the way to go, then go on the international circuit and see where it gets you when you strike there. You will be lucky to get fired, lots of countries would chuck you in jail first just to make you realise there are no hard feelings.

[Very_Low_and_Fast]

Aero is a Nigerian company and CHC is not a majority shareholder. CHC does not dictate Aero's local benefits but helps local demands endlessly with :mad: loads of cash. Everybody knows that since CHC took over Schreiner, most of the local salaries tripled in a short time... :rolleyes:

Leave CHC alone and ask Ibru family to review your status and benefits. If they can afford it, that is fine. If they can not afford it but still agree on all demands and eventually run our of business that is also fine.

The same would be if, for example, Kenya Airways ask one of the foreign shareholders (KLM, has 20 something %) to provide some crew on the common type due to shortage of pilots and local, Kenyan pilots ask for the same and nothing else but the same benefits as KLM pilots.

There are quite a few companies in the world where foreign airlines have shares and help run local airlines. Would Air Madagascar pilots ask for same salaries and benefits as AF just because Air France has 3% in the company??

Or would Air Tunga Lunga Captain ask his Tunga Lunga boss for the same salary as BA because when he went to London he had to land in the same fog as his British colleague on the same type?

Of course they can ask but they might not get it. This is capitalism and no space for social issues and emotions. :ouch:

[Swamp76]

I will have to start by saying that from Heli-Jet's inital posts, he/she had a little information, not intimate knowledge, and wanted to s4!t disturb.

Thankfully, others with better facts have piped up.

Any nation that has the resources locally to fill posiitons, will refuse to allow companies (especially in aviation) to use expats on any but very short terms.

Touring isn't an easy life and those that do will always need to be compensated for that.

The option always exists for the national pilots/engineers to leave the position they have and apply to fly elsewhere as a touring pilot/engineer.

I've had the fortunate (or unfortunate) experience to be both a national and an expat pilot, and have friends from other nations who have had similar experiences.

The grass isn't always greener.

You have to decide what is important to you and choose, noone in their right mind will just give you everything.

BTW: the pilots at HeliJet are not low-timers, they are generally high time but with limited S76 or offshore time and need to tick a couple boxes for the often ridiculous min captaincy requirements for customers like BP, and ExxonMobil.

[Heli-Jet]

Curious to know how many National Captains there are employed by CHC Global at their various bases worldwide. (third world) exclude Australia, UK, USA and Europe????

Thailand as you know is TAS so employes their own nationals, however after KS left they had replaced him with a local to run the show. However that was TAS not CHC.

Sonair in Angola also promoted their locals as CHC wouldn't so they promoted their own and supplied FO for CHC

Maybe the Nigerians should speak to TAS and Sonair. I believe Sonair are now looking at getting into Equatorial Guinea to startup Helicopter operations offshore

[Swamp76]

HeliJet,
I'm not certain you are listening.

TAS and ACN are roughly equivalent entities. SonAir is a crown corp and all foreigners must partner with them but essentially the same thing again. This was all written about above.

Nigeria: 15-20 copilots, 25-30 captains
CP, D/CP, D/OpsO all Nigerian
Eq.Guinea: no local pilots, the president's son/nephew? ya, right.

gotta go.

[MamaPut]

Swamp,

You're right - but you're obviously a fast learner and H-J has a bit of excess ear wax (a trait I've found with a couple of guys from that background :\). Ah well, some people arrive in Nigeria knowing they can change everything - some arrive and find that instead of changing Africa, it has changed them - they're the ones who last :}

[Heli-Jet]

Interesting topic ... well guys you should ask CB what she did when the Thai Captains wanted work outside of Thailand. Some guys got jobs with Malaysian helicopters. She went after them and approached the company to get them released so she could have them back with TAS. However they didn't get the Expat salary, as did the expats who live in Thailand married to Thai girls.... go ahead boys explain that one!!!!

[MamaPut]

So how come there's a Thai pilot with CHC Global in Nigeria, being paid standard expat salary and a Nigerian pilot with CHC in Equatorial Guinea, also employed by CHC Global on a normal expat deal, not to mention the Filipino Captains.

[Heli-Jet]

Mamput you seem to be well inform, good to hear that CHC Global have come around

[Perro Rojo]

HJ,

Not all the Nationals that our partners provide us to fly with are up to the job for a variety of reasons. I have several thousand hours flying with Nationals that, while they were almost all nice guys, can best be described as seat warmers. Their presence fulfilled our commitments to the local government and partner company.

Any time we come across a "keeper" we do just that, and they would be hired directly by CHC GO. That's where most of the non-CAN,UK,US,OZ, Kiwi, etc. pilots come from. Having said that though we have not been able to "keep" all the good ones we have found. Some times "political" reasons preclude our hiring some of the keepers.

The latest is one of our Azeri pilots. He has left Azerbaijan and in so doing has made himself eligible for hire by CHC GO and guess what, we did.

So you see HJ, when pilots, from anywhere, are employed by CHC GO, they are all treated equally. When they are employed by our partners they are paid in accordance with their company's compensation package.

[Tokunbo]

when pilots, from anywhere, are employed by CHC GO, they are all treated equally
Except, of course if they're one of BC's 'special boys', in which case they're treated specially :}

[Heli-Jet]

CHC is supposed to defer to the highest safety standard, so why would they have seat warmers. Surely this just loads up the Captain and I am sure he doesn't get paid anymore for the job.

I believe that the expats go to Flight Safety, what happens with the local pilots. Do they all go to FSI as well????

[Tokunbo]

CHC pays lip-service to the highest safety standards, then do just whatever they need to stop anyone making waves - well it's rapidly backfiring against them in Nigeria now with even more expats wanting to leave and actively looking - and there's plenty of work out there.
Local pilots go to FS if they can get visas, but it doesn't matter, because pass or fail, they'll still be there on the line as soon as they get back, exactly the same as the expats :ugh:

[the delaminator]

So the Carmine Pooch shows up here as well from time to time.

He speaks the truth here gang. CHC GO hires the competent whenever and wherever. It's not always possible or efficient but when it is we do it.

I worked with a Thai pilot in Iran. Full Captain on full GO salary.

[Very_Low_and_Fast]

"I believe that the expats go to Flight Safety, what happens with the local pilots. Do they all go to FSI as well????"

Heli-Jet,

Yes, they do. In fact there are more dollar$ spent on training locals than expats...


Now, did you hear the story when CHC arrived in, for them new territory and not being familiar with local currency (CFA) by mistake punched wrong numbers on the calculator, adding one zero in error and local copilot got an offer which was more than his expat Captain's.



What is the expat Captain supposed to do? Change his GO contract for a local one??

[Tokunbo]

Things are now so bad in the 'tropical paradise' with senior expats wanting to leave that BC is rumored to be arriving very soon. I think it's too late and more people are going to walk very soon unless he takes rapid and drastic measures to stop the rot.

[Heli-Jet]

Aquila 13, no offence taken, I think you hit the nail on the head. I like the way you dealt with the facts, you have a clear understanding of the situation.

I believe BC will always pay low end and drags his calculator out to make his point. Believe me it hasn't gone un-noticed. The trouble with the local pilots is that they have always been thankful for having a job and never complained. But times are a changing, oil prices have rised dramatically and CHC have had good times. We would like to share some of that.

Locals have also worked longer throughout the year and have envied the expats returning to 1st world countries where everythng works, enjoying 6 weeks of rest. I am glad the point was made about the UK locals been the highest paid. The expats spend time away from home pickup tropical diseases and are away from families and I don't think they are compensated adequately for the work done, so really BC should re-examine the whole pay structure and get in line with what the oil companies pay their employees, if you ever get to see a contract that is drawn up between the oil companies and CHC and the money that is allocated to pilots and engineers you would be shocked.

[Perro Rojo]

HJ,

Not that old chestnut again! That's like the other old chestnut that the oil companies were paying for Business Class airfares for us.

As a past Base Manager I have read many CHC / Oil company contracts and there were no separate amounts tabulated for crew unless the oil company decides to add a crew, ie night standby crew, after the fact. The oil company stipulates their crew requirements in the tender and CHC includes that into the monthly and hourly aircraft rate. Remember, you are just an aircraft component.

You are right about the justification for the pay difference between GO and Europe but you aren't listening about the difference between GO and the locals. The locals are employed by their local company or government. CHC is usually a minority partner in these deals and other than utilizing the crew that they are given, have very little say in their employment details.

Hey Delaminator. How's it going B'ye?

[northseaspray]

I think CHC is simply trying to save as much as they can. They have to pay North sea guys more because of history and past deals made with the union and the fact that every salary in the UKs are higher than most of the western world.

GO crews are paid less than CHC Europe because CHC can and nationals are paid even lower because CHC/(local partner) can.


Yup, the union makes a big difference. Every time. And UK doesn't have the highest salaries and the best rosters, you have to look a little further north on the map.. :ok:

[noooby]

Aquila 13,

If this movement thing is gaining momentum, then why does it only cover CHC GO heli pilots?? Why not the fixed wing pilot, and why not the engineers?? Seems to be that nobody else is good enough for this collective.
If you are looking at a movement like they have in the UK, then forget it. Pilots got a 43% payrise at one stage, and engineers got zip. Great relations between pilots and engineers. Not!!!
You end up turning into a company of backstabbing :mad: just to make an extra buck. If you want to work like that, go to Bristows instead.
I'll be interested to see how the union/CHC court case goes, as I would like to know how Canadian labour laws will be applied to non-Canadian residents working outside of Canada, for companies who's major shareholding is owned by a non-Canadian company.
Interesting times ahead.

[Perro Rojo]

"Why not the fixed wing pilot, and why not the engineers?? Seems to be that nobody else is good enough for this collective."

Well Noooby, if you really are a newby, it would probably have been a better idea to phrase that as a question rather than making assumptions.

We did everything we could think of including bending over and soaping up for them but the engineers, except for a couple, would not play along and there were no fixed wing pilots when we started done this road. I'm sure that when the association actually gets going the fixed wing drivers will be more than welcome.

[noooby]

No fixed wing pilots when you started down this road?? Surely not. Unless this has been moving along exteeeeemly slow. The fixed wing ACN/CHC guys have been around for quite a while and I was told they weren't on the invitation list.
When the engineers in Nigeria were told of the rumours of the 'collective' a few months back, not one of the ones that I talked to knew anything about it, and quite a few of the pilots were of the opinion that it was basically invitation only.
Personally I'm of the opinion that it isn't really necessary, my experiences with unions and 'collectives' has been mixed. They usually start out OK, but then somebody gets antsy, and it all turns very militant. In the end nobody really wins. I'm quite happy with the pay and condtions in PHC. I've worked for less money and worse conditions in crappier places. But that is just me, I'm relatively easy to please. Money isn't my prime motivator, job satisfaction is. Shame that so many these days will do anything to get an extra $. I guess, for some, the grass will forever be greener on the other side of the fence.
My 2cents

[MamaPut]

Aquila13,

You're also a bit confused - nooby works for CHC, not Bristow.

Last year CHC Global pilots set out to form an association, which is now in existence, but with many doubts as to whether it can succeed without becoming a union and even whether it's a legal entity in Canadian law, as the pilots do not work for a Canadian company, are employed outside Canada and most of them are not Canadian.

[noooby]

Thankyou MamaPut, I didn't think I was that confusing in what I was saying.
Aquila just assumed I worked for one company not the other, and assumed that I worked as an operational pilot in that company, instead of working in the capacity that I really work in.
Money is nice, yes, but relationships between different professions within a company is equally as important, for the long term sustainability of an operation.
Getting a bit Off Topic here, so will return to the regular broadcast.

[Plakstift]

CHC has already admitted to the Canadian labor board that they were the employer of all CHC GO pilots.

[noooby]

I'm really really hoping that this whole court hearing doesn't open a huge can of worms whereby CHC end up 'transferring' GO staff in places like Nigeria and Thailand to ACN and TAS.
I just don't see how CHC GO will be able to abide by Canadian Health and Safety laws in some of the countries they operate in. The only work around would be to not employ any CHC GO staff in those places, and that doesn't help any of us.
Anybody know what the 'master plan' is in regard to this??

Cheers

[Heli-Jet]

Guys I like that Idea, that CHC staff working for ACN or TAS or SONAIR be employed by the countries that have these company or it could work the other way round CHC GO employs the staff from the local countries so that everything shares the oil money.... GREAT IDEA noooby !!!!!!!:D:D

[chcmanagement]

Our visit to Nigeria has convinced us that the best way to go forward is to set up a company in Guinea-Bissau. This has excellent labour laws and very secret banking systems. All employees of CHC GO will shortly be receiving new contracts in Portuguese with a full English translation and details of new bank accounts being set up for all employees in the Banque Centrale des Etats de l'Afrique de l'Ouest. The recent news of disappearance of large amounts of confiscated cocaine in this area can only be of benefit to all of us. Once she has finished courses in Crioulo and Portuguese, Kay Too will be relocated to our new office in Ilha de Bolama in her capacity of Manager Morale, Travel and Human Relations, West Africa. All staff having problems are encouraged to visit her here to get any such minor problems straightened out, without the necessity to bother senior management in Vancouver, Lagos or Port Harcourt. Bolama is renowned for its lovely sandy beaches and extra anti-malarials will be issued to all staff visiting the new offices there. Flights can be arranged with Air Senegal from Dakar to Bissau and boats to Bolama are easy to find once you have arrived. I'm sure all staff will agree that this will resolve many of the problems we are having with pay, banking and recognition of staff associations.

[Heli-Jet]

What a great move, sell the HQ in Vancouver should make a mint out of the money made there. Relocate all the staff from Vancouver enjoy the sandy beaches and we will have a win win situation. At least we won't have to worry about abiding by Canadian Labor laws .... Please let us know when this will happen can't say that you will have the support of your office staff experiencing what the rest of us do.

When you do let us know ... should be a great move

[Plakstift]

Finally CHC have seen the light. Why put up with all the regulations and laws of a country as retarded as Canada when a corporate haven is waiting. The true spirit of free enterprise.

CHC management... I am disappointed in the fact that you did not include CHC's latest press release of the company's intention to relocate.


" CHC GO has come to the conclusion that its greatest liability is its pilots. Their salary mass is enormous; they are weenies whinnies and now there is a threat of a pending union that could make their salary mass even bigger. So the resolution of our last corporate meeting is that all pilots employment will be terminated. This should free lots of money and will enable us to avoid the move to Bolama. The new found funds will be use to buy many more desks for our YVR HQ and to hire more people to park behind these desks. Having no pilots on our workforce will make our operation a very smooth one."


So there it is. I think we will see better things for the future from our world class company.

[Perro Rojo]

Aquila13,

Note that job ad is for Co-pilots. The other ad for Captains still requires 3,000 hours.

[cougar77]

Please note that CHC will only contact applicants for this posting based on demand for additional personnel. Sorry, no phone calls please.

They dont seem to reply to applications. Have anyone else here tried and received a reply from them??

[rotor beetle]

cougar,

yes, they do reply! A friend of me send his resume and they got back to him after a few days.
Same for me earlier.

cheers

RB

[cougar77]

RB,
Thanks for the info
Cheers

[MamaPut]

cougar77,

You just have to be patient - I had to wait nearly 9 months for a reply. It's a bit like meet the girl, get drunk, things happen then just before the baby is due she finally says she wants to marry you :E

[Swamp76]

Aquila13,

Just 7 pers to operate the helo. Sounds grand.

We'll fire the flight followers, the regulator/customer won't mind if we dispense with the flight watch. We'll fire the flight coordinator, the customer can contact one of the pilots whenever there is an issue, that won't impact crew rest at all. The engineers aren't busy so we'll get rid of the stores as well. We'll all take turns at billing and accounts, payroll too, that should be OK, the minor hiccups won't be noticed. I'd love to spend all my off time arranging work permits, making flight bookings, and chasing down someone in the ExxonMobil bureaucracy.

We'll contract out all the maintenance (hangar), cleaning, vehicle support/driving, baggage handling, customer check-in. The pax won't notice the change in level of service.

Now, pilots and engineers: each a/c is 24/7, so i think the engineers would like to have a day off. That means more like 4 engineers: 2 in country (one day, one night) and 2 at home. I'm thinking 8 pilots/4 crews with the same logic...unless you want them to fly all day and hold medevac call all night. But you are too honest to try that trick. So I guess we have 12 pointy-enders, not 7. The night pilots will likely be in the hangar anyway helping the lone engineer change a blade. Apprentices and helpers are just costly overhead.

Now let's be a little more serious. If the 'association' that smells like a union wants more support, it needs to take a much more realistic view of what it takes to run a company. I haven't been in charge of much more than my a/c in quite some time but I haven't forgotten everything it takes to be a manager.

An engine isn't just a few pistons, spark plugs and fuel floating in space. There needs to be a structure, coherent and efficient, that supports it.

The logic you used in manning must really help when you apply to CRM (I couldn't help it, it's just so PC and easy).

Yes, I am CHC. No, I have not joined the 'association'. I would like to have more information before ponying up cash and having my 'vote' used for good or ill. And yes, it will be used. Used to demonstrate that I am behind the movement. I certainly don't think all is rosy but if you want my support, don't treat me like cattle.

[MamaPut]

Swamp76 has obviously never been to Nigeria, is probably a manager and can't read, since Aquila talked about 5 pilots per aircraft (and no, that's not in country). Each aircraft is certainly not 24/7, there is not 1 engineer per aircraft and Nigeria is too dangerous to have night shifts in the hangar. The pilots are the only ones who are out flying in harms way for a percentage of every day.

Get with the program man - you're really Brian Clegg aren't you? :ugh::yuk:

[cougar77]

MamaPut,

Yes, i believe that CHC will contact only when the need for additional personnel is required, meanwhile all applications will probably be filed in a cabinet for future reference.

[Aquila13]

At every base I have worked at, there was 2 crew on site and 2 crew at home per aircraft. I have allocated 1 extra pilot per aircraft to make up for training and other pilots that do not fly the line. I also have never seen more than one engineer per aircraft at any given time at any base.

As far as night standby is concerned,

Quote: "unless you want them to fly all day and hold medevac call all night"

It is exactly what the company requires crews to do on single aircraft base.

[Plakstift]

The crewing from Aquila13 make perfect sense to me. It is pretty much what I have seen my prior bases.

I am on a single aircraft base and I am on 24/7 and that's got to change but I am dismissed everytime I bring it up to YVR.

[Perro Rojo]

Plakstift,

Unless the customer actually cares that their day crew is covering night standby they won't pony up the jink required for the second crew,ie. low budget companies.

The CARs allows for the use of one crew on 24/7 as long as the flights are emergency flights and that the crew abondons ship for 24 hours as soon as the patient is droppped off where ever that may be. Check your OMA the details are in there.

If you don't like this set up but still don't want to abandon some poor slob that got injured on the rig by declaring crew rest, a little customer education can help. Usually customers that don't get the second crew don't know the rules, regulations or the ramifications of the single crew operation.

[Swamp76]

Alrighty then...

I was attempting to present a deliberately absurd counterpoint to the contention that CHC should have only 7 employees per a/c, as all others are just leeches profitting from our hard work.

To start, we were talking about CHC Global, not one base. Aquila was also professing his ideal staffing, not what exists right now. I contend that he has missed the mark.

Mamaput: The PH engineers are in the hangar from 0600 to 2200 each day. I'm thinking they would like less than a 14 hour day for 42 days straight.

No too long ago there were 14 a/c in PH, with 2 on night cover, and a NCAR mandated one day off per week. That translates into 72 pilots for 14 a/c (5.1 pilots/machine in and out of country) with no extra trg guy.

Aquila: I will plead ignorance on single a/c bases as I haven't worked one. The smallest I worked was 2 a/c, which used 6 pilots and 4 engineers on site (so 12 and 8 total) plus a BM.

On these bases I have been asked to fly during the day and be the night cover guy. I have done it when it was for a genuinely unforeseeable event (malaria) and refused when it was for something else (they sent in a pilot without a night rating).

Pero Rojo: That is the typical interpretation of the 'medevac exemption' but I have personally interpreted it that if the customer has asked for the capability, then it is a service they have paid for, and it therefore cannot be viewed as unforeseen.

I got my management chat for being 'not a team player' on this issue. I agree wholeheartedly with your last comment:


If you don't like this set up but still don't want to abandon some poor slob that got injured on the rig by declaring crew rest, a little customer education can help. Usually customers that don't get the second crew don't know the rules, regulations or the ramifications of the single crew operation.


I'm all for improving things but I maintain that 7 pers per a/c is unrealistic for the company to operate effectively. Vancouver is bloated right now but I think our employment would be shortlived if there was noone there.

As for my association stance: I want an association to which I can give my support that is proactive, effective, and positive. Not confrontational at every opportunity and unrealistic.

[MamaPut]

Swamp76,

If you've been to Port Harcourt you'd know that the engineers are not in the hangar from 0600 to 2200 (which by the way is 16 hours). They do a spell on earlies from 0600 to 1400 and a spell on lates from 1300 to around 2100. On the changeover day from earlies to lates they get a 24 hour break (which I totally agree does not equate to a day off.

The pilots on night standby all have a day off after finishing their night standby.

[Swamp76]

You are correct, my math is off.

Again, I was referring back to Aquila's ideal 2 engineers per a/c and 5 pilots per a/c (which I felt was absurd).

I was about to try and reply directly to some of Aquila's other comments but they all appear to have been deleted.

I'm still not sure what your stance is on the 'ideal' staffing? That was what I was debating. The reason for my ire was that I do not want to be represented by a group that has such a short-sighted view of the company as a whole and Aquila appeared to be involved in said group.

I hope I have sufficiently clarified myself.

[MamaPut]

S76,

OK, now I can see where you're coming from and you're (probably) not Brain Clegg :E. You and Aquila both have some good points to make, but if either of you want your view to prevail, you've got to be more specific and come up with facts, not generalisations. This is a good debate at present, so keep the points coming guys because out of the fallout from a discussion like this even CHC blockheads may learn something (if they don't want the company to crash and burn!) and move on to a consensus where the employees are happier and what should be a world-class company actually is.

[Perro Rojo]

Now that's a thread stopper if I ever read one.

[Swamp76]

Which stopper? The voice of reason or the disppearance of a participant into the silicon ether?

We had drifted off topic at least by 2 topics as well.

Oh well......

[Heli-Jet]

Sure has made some interesting reading from the above thread on the Africa forum. Interesting to see CHC GO involvement in the decision making process. Swamp 76 is not BC I would rather say IR from Aus who is now in Vancouver

[Swamp76]

I looked and didn't see anything.

You are trying to guess about about me.............I think you are in Malabo working on the C+. Not certain if are a pilot or engineer yet, but I think engineer. Yes?

Now.....if I was Ian I could use my influence and.........:E

[Heli-Jet]

And pray what might that influence be, positive is always welcome. The trouble in the past I have found the CHC open door policy to be a trap door policy:= I have seen what it has done to individuals in the past, that's why this forum is soooo great.

[Noordzee Cowboy]

Why don't CHC and Bristow's guy's and girls get a private forum, after all PAS has one?
Just a thought.:)

[etienne t boy]

Some of us don't want a private forum, that would just do away with the whole point of a lot of these posts :}

[Aquila13]

Swamp. Sorry for my absence. 3 days travel plus major jet lag has kept me off the loop.

I agree with you that the current level of crewing is insufficient and I was merely pointing out the typical crewing that we see. I never thought that it was ideal. It actually sucks.

I also would support an union but only if it is open, non militant and realist.

[SARBlade]

MamaPut said:
cougar77,

You just have to be patient - I had to wait nearly 9 months for a reply. It's a bit like meet the girl, get drunk, things happen then just before the baby is due she finally says she wants to marry you :E

I submitted my application in Apr and just got my job offer this past week. No promises as to where, but they want me to get checked out on the 76 before anything else. Hmmm.. where is the livery full of 76's?:8