Crunch time: FI or IR

[Ioan]

Hey folks! I'm after some suggestions or advice. 6 years after starting flying I finally have a CPL(H), thanks to my new god Mr Fred Cross! :}

So! After all that work I've discovered what others have been telling me all along; I'm still underqualified, inexperienced, and after a week of phone calls and emails I've got nowhere. Therefore I'm after some opinions on my next step. I have, by the way, read and reread every thread created on here in the past six years today, and after going round in circles decided just to ask for help.

My details: 170 hours TT heli (145 R22, 25 B206), JAA CPL(H), JAA PPL(A) and 50 odd hours fixed wing. 21 years old, all but broke (but used to it after all these years), and a full time but flexible hours job that gives me around £2k a month disposable income when I work my a*** off. Single and able to move anywhere with little notice.

"Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns"

is something I've read over and over, and I'm beginning to appreciate how good advice it is. What I'm after is info to allow me to make a better decision regarding the risks vs benefits of each option.

IR: I'd obviously be looking to go to the big 3 (and working on the North Sea is fine by me). I hear they're going to be desperately short of pilots over the next few years (600-700 pilots required for one company alone is one number I've seen). I also hear that they've got plenty of low hour guys, don't need any more, and therefore it'd be a huge risk to self fund an IR. Confusing? :confused: And then if I did get an IR but failed to find work offshore, I appreciate no onshore operator is going to hire me for IFR work with such low hours. Would it make me significantly more employable for VFR work though, for example charter?

FI: would be late in the season by the time I hourbuilt to 250 hours and did the FI course. What's demand like for flight instructors at the moment? How about over the winter? I know I'd enjoy instructing, but I would like to get my IR before my exams expire. And although I'm willing to accept low pay and long hours, I would like as much flight time as possible ASAP. Unusual that I know ;)

Cheers for the help guys (girls too if you fancy any inputs Whirls ;) )

Ioan

[Blue Rotor Ronin]

Do your IR if you can afford it, a lot of rig flying's IMC and the crunch is you may have 2 grand worth of VFR but if you don't have the spatial awareness to fly IMC it'll all be for nothing if the rigs are your eventual aim, saying that you could always go back to being an instructor. Bristow have an IR school in Norwich with Steve Bell who's a great bloke and a fine instructor; there's also the added bonus of being in the Bristow loop, albeit a distant one (ie; if you're any good they may snatch you up). I was faced with exactly the same decision 6 years ago and never looked back. Oh, and never underestimate the power of luck and being in the right place at the right time. Best of luck.:ok:

[Ioan]

Thanks very much. Was exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for!
The IR route was the one I was nudging towards. I hope spatial awareness won't be a problem; I've never found the instruments too difficult (blame the computer games) and Fred sugested that IF was my strong point. Saying that I realise the IR is a whole new ballgame.
Glad it worked for you! :ok:

[Hummingfrog]

There is no easy answer to your question, but let me correct your presumptions about the big 2 and 1/2;) offshore helio companies.

1. None of the offshore helio companies employs 600-700 pilots in the UK so nobody requires that number of pilots over the next few years.

2. The companies are not desperately short of pilots. They are, however, short of experienced pilots. There are more than enough inexperienced pilots to choose from and, at the moment, they can pick from pilots who have IRs which removes any training risk.

3. The company I work for has recruited alot of inexperienced pilolts recently so slots may be drying up.

My advice is talk to the recruiters in each company and get their advice as they know exactly what the requirements are at any time. The only downside to that is that requirements change daily as contracts are won and lost or pilots lose their licenses for medical reasons.

I joined my present company in 1990 after being offered, at interview, a job starting the next day. I am Ex RAF and had 4500hrs twin time but by the following year the company would not have taken me on as it had enough pilots.

I have talked to several RAF pilots who may be coming on the market soon as they are fed up with flying in the sandpit so competition may get even tougher!

It all comes down to if you want to work offshore you need an IR.

As BRR said luck plays an important role in being selected so you have to keep in touch with the company recruiters.

HF

[check]

Hummingfrog,

Bristow requires over the next 10 years, worldwide 500 pilots. Add in the other majors and you have a whole bunch of holes to fill. One of which is mine!!

[Hummingfrog]

check

I did say in the UK not worldwide. Even 500 in 10yrs is only 50/yr and alot of those will be filled by locals and not open to UK pilots. The training schools in the UK must be pushing out 40-50 CPL(H)s every year so you can do the Maths.

HF

[Flingingwings]

Sadly I don't think there is an easy guaranteed answer to your question. The advice you quote is an excellent generalisation but you won't get much more accurate than that:{

FI- Possibility of some work. Hours long. Treatment by employers generally poor. Pay low. Limited scope for development. Little chance of any winter work.

IR - Higher cost, higher risk, higher possible returns.


FWIW - You may well struggle with an IR with so little hours. I know of more than two guys with more hours (400ish) that we're both good pilots and instructors (experience considered) that abandoned their IR's. They'll give it another go when they have more flying hours. The course is also far more demanding than any of the 'IR' flying you'd have completed on your CPL.

It won't help that I also know a couple of guys with 2500-3000 hours who are struggling to find VFR work aside from basic ppl tuition and trial lessons. I don't subscribe to the theory that higher hours make you a better pilot and guarantee work. Know a guy with 3000+ that is scary and guys with 500 that are more competent.

Holding an IR may help with VFR work if you have low hours as your flying is a guaranteed standard. That said to do you want to pay for an IR then fly VFR????

It's what you do with your hours, and more importantly being lucky - Right place, right time.

Not an answer I know, but perhaps a starting point might be to call a few places asking about FI vacancies (don't say you need the course, ask if they need staff). Then call the main IR providers (Bond, Bristows, SAS, and Helicopter Services) and find out what the waiting lists are like.

That might give you a starting point.........

I did CPL- FI, got disillusioned and shafted and so paid for the IR. I was lucky and have a good IR career ahead of me. But I was lucky as I qualified when demand was there. No promise it will be there when you qualify.

I'd base my decision on where I'd like to work then go for it, accepting the risks.

Thank god I don't have to make that decision again

[Bravo 99]

Ioan

IR if you can do it, it will give you more of a change, its a lot of work work but its the IR that has got me where i am today you are a natural pilot you will find the IR both interesting and improve you skills even more, and when you get your check ride it will be then that you will come through everybody says there is a shortage of pilots but the game is keep chasing and with the right qualifications and you will come through.

FI will keep you flying but many a conversation said previously 2K of R22 is ok but less hours with some turbine time and twin time and and IR will help you more in most cases.

you have my number call me and we can have a chat

PS mail me regarding a special function that we have been trying to get you to attend.

PPS congratulations on getting your CPL told you you could do it

B99

[Whirlygig]

The only input I can offer is to say that these sorts of decisions are personal and the reasons behind some people doing one thing and others doing something can only be pertinent to their own situation.

So much depends on your attitude to risk - some people keep their money in a building society and some invest it in stocks and shares. Only gamble what you can afford to lose. If you go for an IR, will you be able to live if you can't get a job afterwards? Similarly for FI rating?

My own view is that I will do an FI rating first and then, depending on the market, build hours as appropriate before going for an IR. I'm mainly planning on doing it that way round because, as Flingingwings says, an IR is tough and I ain't that good a pilot!

But that's my view and you may be a quicker learner than me which will give you a different perspective!

Cheers

Whirls

[Ioan]

Everyone - thanks very much for the advice. Really appreciated!

Flingwings - that's pretty much the stage I'm at. Going for a CPL was a risk, the risks of the next step I'm trying to minimise as much as possible, but it's reached the stage where I've got to go for it one way or the other. Hence this thread today! I guess I should be grateful I at least have a job I can fall back on if this doesn't go as planned. No I'd prefer not to be paid to fly VFR only after paying for an IR. But that's infinitely better than not being paid at all after paying for an IR ;)

Bravo_99 - thanks for the comments! I'll message you now in a second

TheFlyingSquirrel - you just made up my mind!

[Ioan]

lol if you don't stop editing you're gonna crash this PPRuNe server!! Every time I look that post seems to have changed! :D
Useful docs - I too noticed the gender gap. 36 professional female helicopter pilots vs 1808 male ones...

AND I look and it's gone once again!!!! :D

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

Check out the stats from the CAA on (H) license issue. I personally don't think it's too many considering. Please, I wasn't offering advice, just statistics - and they can prove anything right ?? :ok:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_LRIssues_2004_05.pdf

( and yes, I've become very fussy ! )

[Ioan]

As they say, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics ;)

Decision pretty much made. Will probably start having doubts in the morning, but I'll face those then!

Slightly off topic, but I came across a quote before that made me smile; seemed particularly apt at the moment.

"I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it"

Cheers guys! :D