Helicopter pilots and Tinnitus

[stabout]

Heard that a Norwegian pilot with Tinnitus won £167,000 in a Norwegian court after a rather lengthy legal battle.
Does anyone have any more information?
What are the North Sea Operators going to do about it??:sad:

[212man]

Conduct research, and carry out trials using ANR headsets and ear protection devices, collaborating with BALPA. They are already doing so.

Seems a poor decision to me: anyone earning a Norwegian Pilot's salary, who can't figure out that two Makilas sitting above your head doing 31,000 rpm for hours on end might be a bad thing for your ears, and who can't be bothered to spend $500-800 on an ANR headset, needs their head examining, not having large sums of cash dished out.

[unstable load]

Nicely put, 212man! :D

Sounds like he messed up his pension planning and needed a top up.

[BaronG]

While the pilot could have purchased an ANR Headset for themself, current ANR headsets seem optimised to filter out the lower frequency range of sounds whereas hearing in the upper frequencies tend to fail and of course turbine engines are high pitched.

Additionally, there may well be a problem of whether an off-the-shelf headset works in the Aircraft - the company isn't going to pay for a mod for a non-company standard headset.

Since a helmet isn't considered acceptable, you are rather stuck if you wish to use something other than the company standard equipment.

As for the ANR headset testing, the last I heard was that they didn't offer as good noise reduction as a standard passive set overall, particularly in the upper frequency ranges, yet I stll hear (the rumour?) of new headsets coming down the pipe.

BG.

[NickLappos]

Baron,

You are quite right, the myth that ANR headsets are better at protecting hearing is simply not true. ANR's cannot filter much above a thousand Hz, and the most damaging frequencies are far above that.

It is the sealing and suppression from the ear cup are the protection that one needs, and this is available from plugs and headsets without expensive electronics.

[unstable load]

vital actions,

I must disagree with you. The company pays for HALF the price of helmets or noise cancelling headsets up to $600, so why would they force crew not to wear something they have helped pay for? I just does not compute.:confused:

I can understand compatability issues, but even those should be reasonably easily resolved considering the number of these aircraft flying around.

[crop duster]

I agree with ya'll; but, I can't imagine flying a full day ever again without my ANR helmet. Occasionally I unplug it just to remind myself of how it was before. After a few seconds I plug it back in and leave it alone. I have a spare set of internals just in case something quits I can switch them out and send the broke one's in for repair. High freq-low freq, im my mind it (and ears) it makes a differnce.

barryb

[Heliport]

More here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279838)


H.

[Megawart]

Interesting. I gather some marks of Royal Navy Sea Kings have ANR, whilst the Royal Air Force doesn't consider it neccessary in their Mk 3 SAR cabs!
Maybe the cost of ANR is more than the anticpated cost of future claims.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Or maybe the SAR Bouys do very little in the way of flying so have no need of it..............just a thought :p

[MostlyHarmless]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeePardoneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ee?

[Lafyar Cokov]

It reminds me of that old Austrian racing driver..errr Nikki....errrrr :}

[charliegolf]

Mostly,

Too quick for me!:ok:

Any chance of an ex Puma crewman getting owt for a pair of buggered knees?

CG

[TheWizard]

There's every chance of a current Puma Crewman getting out for a pair of buggered knees, buggered back, buggered neck etc etc :}

[country calls]

Quote:
Interesting. I gather some marks of Royal Navy Sea Kings have ANR, whilst the Royal Air Force doesn't consider it neccessary in their Mk 3 SAR cabs!
Maybe the cost of ANR is more than the anticpated cost of future claims.



I can confirm that one variant of RAF C130 has ANR and the other doesn't.
What I can't find is the documentary evidence that supports the widely rumoured inception costs versus compensation cost decision to use one without ANR.

[Evalu8ter]

Having done work on this subject, ANR appears not the panacea it is claimed to be. In many respects it does make you feel better, and certainly improves radio/intercom clarity. However, it does not cover all harmfull frequencies that are generated by helo aviation. Thus ANR could, in some circumstances, accellerate your hearing loss by fooling you into spending longer in a noise-harmful environment. The only way to prevent, or delay, the onset of hearing loss is to physically block out the harmful noise as well as the irritating, ie use F1 style moulded ear plugs (which rock musicians & motorcyclists also swear by).

[Runaway Gun]

And who in the company supplies these special plugs?

[ATCO17]

Well the three A109s on 32(TR) Sqn have some Gucci Bose noise cancelling headsets. Was informed by crew that they're about £1000 a piece! And boy...do they work! Cut out all the whiniing...especially from the two front seats. :ok:

[ShyTorque]

After my time on Pumas I don't have tinnitus - can't hear a damned thing!

Jordan has started helicopter lessons and has already put in a claim for severe tittinus.

[northseaspray]

All L2 pilots will probably admit to suffer from tinnitus to some extent, some more than others. Biggest challenge is that the high frequency noise from the intakes goes right trough the scull, totally bypassing any sophisticated headset. Just flying with a cap on makes a big difference, and lately winterliners for construcionwork helmets has become quite popular to put over the cap.

The L2's in Norway now have sound proofing material in the cockpit ceiling, cutting the noise by a couple of db. I'm currently looking into replacing my Peltor with a helmet, which must be lightweight and comfy.

[ATCO17]

:rolleyes:.....the old ones are the best...Say again???!!!

[DICKYMINT]

i have tinnitus - went to the doc and said i have a problem with my hearing - he asked "what are the symptoms"

A cartoon family from America :)

[stabout]

I think helmets are the way forward given all of those skull cracking nuts and bolts in a Puma cockpit.:uhoh:
Apparently risk assessments are to be made on the wearing of helmets?
In order to obtain the best protection from the noise levels and protect your head, helmets must be the way forward?
I understand that helmets are used offshore in Australia, if so how have they convinced the operators that this is they way forward?

[blodwyn]

Well the three A109s on 32(TR) Sqn have some Gucci Bose noise cancelling headsets. Was informed by crew that they're about £1000 a piece! And boy...do they work! Cut out all the whiniing...especially from the two front seats. :ok:

Shoud be made compulsary for anyone who go near anything light blue, nothing worse than a whiniing crab ! :D

[C20 Overture]

If anyone out there has tinnitus or just has some thoughts on the subject I'd be very interested to hear from them.

I started getting tinnitus a few years ago after long days in the aircraft and now I'm at the point where I have it permanently. After starting to talk about it, I was amazed at how many colleagues seem to suffer from it too.

So is it a condition surprisingly common in the helicopter world? Perhaps due to our close proximity to the engines in the cockpit, vibration, time spent on ramps etc.?

Are there many heli guys out there suffering from it? Has anyone ever had any trouble getting a medical because of it? Has it ever affected anyone's flying? Do you think the importance of minding your hearing around aircraft is really spelt out to students when they start training?

[rotorknight]

Just ask a few Norwegian pilots,and for that matter the majority of 92 drivers out there if they have tinnitus.
Helicopter design is all about inverted progress,the newer the helicopter the more noisy it is.
But luckily we are protected by the law :{ :ugh:

[ReverseFlight]

I once rode in the back of an L2 and the thing that really hit me was how much noise and vibration it produced compared to other helicopters I have piloted or paxed in - I felt these intrusions went straight into my chest and it was sickening. I wasted no time in asking the crewman for a pair of muffs !

[maeroda]

Helicopter design is all about inverted progress,the newer the helicopter the more noisy it is.
That's for true, but for the B412!!

110 db in the flight deck for almost ten years; only a Gentex HGU-84 + CEP and modified earcups & earseals could cope.

And still I feel some small degree of acufene (tinnitus) in my left ear when controllers voice raises a bit in the comm.

[jackx123]

I used to wear the little small ear pieces in the air force under the helmet and once on ground i could even hear the birds chirping. just turned up the volume a tad. amazing kit for $1 :ok:

ps. though can't here the missus sometimes :E

[WASALOADIE]

31 Years of combined military and civilian flying, (28 on rotary) as a crewman. I have profound noise induced hearing loss and associated Tinnitus. The RAF helmets have improved over the years but I'm not convinced that they offer effective hearing protection. In the old days, not a great deal was said about hearing damage.

Recently been recommended to see an ENT specialist for the first time. Prescribed digital hearing aids. Still flying (not with the hearing aids in) as the condition doesnt affect my performance in the air. Unfortunately I can now hear the wife when the TV is on. On the plus side, I can now hear what people are saying in pub and busy locations and have improved clarity overall. There is no going back though, my hearing will not improve, it will only continue to get gradually worse.

[grumpytroll]

Advanced Bionics: The world's best performing, most reliable cochlear implant systems (http://www.advancedbionics.com/index.cfm?langid=1)

I understand that this technology is working extremely well for severe hearing loss. As most pro pilots, I definitely suffer from hearing loss. Among the aircraft I have flown, the DC-9, which I sat in for 8 years, had no headset capability. We used a hard plastic molded ear piece for one ear to monitor radios and the other ear was unprotected. You had to have one ear unblocked so you could communicate with the other pilot, no intercom. The cockpit was noisy. I am not talking 30 years ago, this was in the 2000's at Northwest Airlines. When flying these days I wear a standard Gentex helmet. I wear it very tight so the earcups seal well. My EMS helo flights are relatively short, 15-20 minute legs are the usual, so I am not exposed to anywhere near the noise I was in the airlines. I do have to crank up the radios.

Cheers

[SASless]

Ask any Chinook pilot about hearing loss.....the forward tranny just above yer noggin screaming itself to death gets to you pretty quickish.

For a laugh...follow three Chinook pilots down a hallway and listen to the five conversations going on.

I maintain helicopter pilots should get Brass Ear Trumpets at retirement instead of a Gold Watch!

My HF hearing is gone...done...fini. I hear bells, whistles, and screeching when awake....and get some quiet by running an electric fan or Air Con next to the bed.

My dear Uncle Sam has gifted me some nice hearing aids....which do not help much...T's, Z's, C's, P's, E's, D's....all sound the same to me. Kids and ladies with high pitched voices might as well be speaking Swahili for all the good it does me.

[heliski22]

Kids and ladies with high pitched voices might as well be speaking Swahili for all the good it does me.

And the problem with that is what, precisely? :E

[SASless]

Kids....no real loss. But the ladies.....well....errr...even old rats like cheese and communication is key to negotiation.

It does have its merits when the 5 AM freight train goes by next to the house....and she says "Do you want to get up or what?"

[topendtorque]

say again!

hearing, it's a problem, but you can do medical assisted with hearing aids as we do with glasses. for the eyes that is, not the balance.

very hard to work out whether the aids help with the hearing test ear muffs as usually I work better without the aids in real time under a helmet.

it's something every individual has to work out. The other thing to watch is when you go into the sound proof cube always do a good daily on the hearing muffs, and the wires leading into them. they usually have very old cracked wiring and I have found sometimes only work randomly, that's a real root.

Next time i'll be practising listening to the silent syllables before i go, LISTs, WIDEn those sorts of noises. and a tune up to the aids the day before. digital is the way to go, but six grand is a fair hurdle.

couple of our stock inspectors got a handout, and aids from the govt on a claim after lots of shooting from under an SPH4, no wonder.

If that all doesn't work, carry a good wad of notes in the back pocket.

[Peter-RB]

Tinitus can have its roots way back to your Childhood days, Ie Teens,

I too suffer from the most aggravating constant SSSsssSsh that sounds like escaping steam or air from a split pipe, but strangely when I am around noise ie engines big whirly things and the like it goes away, but the very second the noise ends, back comes good old tinnie,

My ENT man put the initial cause down to useing 12 bores without ear cans, sadly most of my life has been alongside weapons of one sort or another, and anything that goes bang can help you on ya way.

PeterR-B

[g-mady]

anyone got any tips or recommendations for equipment that works?

For example I have tried (all underneath a flying helmet(alpha)) foam plugs and cotton wool...

None are very practical!

Headset services ltd did have some moulded ear plugs but the company that supplied them went bust! I think they had a small hole in to allow ambient noise?

All I want, are ear plugs that will fit comfortably under the flying helmet ear cups and not prevent me from hearing the radio too much...?!?!?

MADY

[Brilliant Stuff]

Mady the company didn't go bust but HSL stopped using them because the wires kept braking due to bad design. My colleagues still have them but out of the three who wear them only one still can since HSL no longer repair the in ear plugs.

There are some excellent Danish ones which also negate the microphone but they cost £1k. Have a look on here there is a thread about them.

I think Helmet plus in ear is the best you can do nowadays.

[standby standby]

Two of the guys form HSL have split and become HISL, it might be worth looking at what they're now producing

We have Alphas on the Police Air Support Unit with ANR fitted as standard but I cant stand the feeling of the constant thudding in my ears, so I use a jack plug and revert it to a NATO.... pure bliss.

However you do have to ask, we fly an absolute maximum of 2 hours due to fuel, normally it a 30-40 minute tasking.....do we need ANR?

[g-mady]

I often do 7hrs a day in the summer... thats whats got we worried!!!

Do you know what HISL stands for so I can google them?... (no strobe light jokes please!)

MADY

[DennisK]

Yup ... here's another COF with tinnatus after 14,000 hrs. ... (not all bad 'cos I can hear my heart beats!)

Not a problem daytime, since the hum gets lost in the general sounds. Nightime, the hum is positively linked to the heart rate. ie a pulsing effect. Other than that ... no adverse affects so a nil problem.

Dennis K.

[before landing check list]

Well the good news is that you will be the 1st to know that you are dead. (Ref the heartbeats)OK OK a poor attempt at humor. I have had it since 05 when I left Iraq. It does get lost in the background noise during the day but in a quite environment it gets quite loud.

[whoateallthepies]

I suffer. Not enough to deny me my medical but it's always there. A high-pitched noise similar to when the tV stations used to go off the air. (Old gits will know that sound!).

At Bond in the mid-eighties the headsets were kept in the 332s. Doing rotor-running crew changes we would have to approach/leave the aircraft bare-headed! A lot of damage done then. http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m412/omanjohn/2637784011.jpg

[topendtorque]

If there is one funny story to come out of these Queensland floods it's this, and it's one that we can relate to.

And we must excuse the half deaf reporter for his bad reporting this time.

Story was that a reporter somehow got talking to a farmer, and next thing we are starting to hear is about this farmer that had lost 30,000 pigs.

Bloody hell, struth, stone the crows, you might say.

Well someone else in the media outlet, thought, hang about there ain't any pig farms there-abouts that size. So he interviews him again on the telephone. Back came the response;

"Yeeeah mate , yeeeah, like, pause, oi reckon I dunn about thirty sows and pigs , pause, Eh." :{

[BBK]

I´ve only just noticed this thread so perhaps my comments are preaching to the converted but some of the early posters missed the point about ANR entirely.

It does work better at some frequencies than others. The point about the ANR systems I had experience of testing is that it adds attenuation where the passive attenuation of a hard ear cup is worse. It does not matter so much that it does not work at high frequencies because a good ear cup will passively do a lot to reduce these anyway.

IIRC the Sea King had a tonal spike at about 630 Hz and this is where the ANR I used was very effective. I had lots of Sea King and Chinook pilots who were very enthusiastic about ANR. Whether these systems became operational I don´t know.

Anyway, protect your hearing as noise induced hearing loss only adds to whatever hearing loss you may get through ageing!

[topendtorque]

as a thought, would it be possible to tune the headsets to dampen different frequencies or groups of frequencies as might be expected to be different from one type to another?

it is very easy to re-tune the different frequencies on a digital hearing aid for example, just by plugging it into a simple computer with the right program on it. If such device is not yet available how soon?

Even Sikorsky could offer the appropriate headset dampening for the S92 for instance, that you guys mention as a problem.
tet

[Winnie]

From when I started I have ALWAYS (I mean it, ALWAYS) used earplugs of some kind. Lots of snickers and giggles around for being a p#ssy, being told to man up etc.

Always the excuse that the earplug foamies were uncomfortable, can't get them in properly etc. I wonder what they will all say when they start getting hearing aids.

I now wear CEP.

Cheers
H.

[standby standby]

Helmet Intergrated Services

Tel +44 (0) 1776 704421

[Dan Reno]

'Rebooting' brain could ease ringing in ears (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2655781/posts)
Yahooooooooo ^ (http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://health.yahoo.net/news/s/afp/healthustinnitus)| 01-12-11 | Staff

Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:18:22 PM by Red Badger (http://www.freerepublic.com/~redbadger/)

Scientists have found a way to ease chronic ringing in the ears, known as tinnitus, by stimulating a neck nerve and playing sounds to reboot the brain, according to research published Wednesday.
There is currently no cure for tinnitus, which can range from annoying to debilitating and affects as many as 23 million adults in the United States, including one in 10 seniors and 40 percent of military veterans.
For Gloria Chepko, 66, who has suffered from tinnitus since she was four years old, the sound she describes as "like crickets... but also bell-like," gets worse when she is tired.
"It's awful," she said. "Sometimes it is very loud, and it will get loud if I am under stress or if I have been going for a very long time and I am fatigued," she said.
"If my mind is tired and I sit down I will only hear this sound."
For some people, such as military veterans who are left with hearing damage after exposure to loud blasts and gunfire, the noise -- which could also sound like roaring, whooshing or clicking -- interferes with their ability to lead a normal life.
The US Veterans Administration spends one billion dollars per year on disability payments related to tinnitus, the most common service-related ailment in soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, industry experts say.
Scientists believe the disorder is caused by hearing loss or nerve damage, to which the brain tries but fails to adjust.
"Brain changes in response to nerve damage or cochlear trauma cause irregular neural activity believed to be responsible for many types of chronic pain and tinnitus," said Michael Kilgard of the University of Texas, co-author of the study in the journal Nature.
"We believe the part of the brain that processes sounds -- the auditory cortex -- delegates too many neurons to some frequencies, and things begin to go awry," he said.
To fix that, researchers used rats to test a theory that they could reset the brain by retraining it so that errant neurons return to their normal state.
In rats with tinnitus, they electrically stimulated the vagus nerve, which runs from the head through the neck to the abdomen, in combination with playing a certain high-pitched tone.
When stimulated, the nerve can encourage changes in the brain by releasing chemicals such as acetylcholine and norepinephrine that act as neurotransmitters.
Rats that underwent the pairing of noise and stimulation experienced a halt to the ringing sounds for up to three and a half months, while control rats that received just noise or just stimulation did not.
An examination of neural responses in the auditory cortexes showed normal levels in the rats who were treated with the combination of stimulation and sound, indicating the tinnitus had disappeared.
The treatment "not only reorganized the neurons to respond to their original frequencies, but it also made the brain responses sharper," the study said.
"The key is that, unlike previous treatments, we're not masking the tinnitus, we're not hiding the tinnitus," said Kilgard. "We are returning the brain from a state where it generates tinnitus to a state that does not generate tinnitus. We are eliminating the source of the tinnitus." Clinical trials are expected to begin on humans in the coming months, with the first trials starting in Europe, according to lead study author Navzer Engineer. The process of vagus nerve stimulation, known as VNS, is already being used in the treatment of around 50,000 people with epilepsy or depression, the study said. "This minimally invasive method of generating neural plasticity allows us to precisely manipulate brain circuits, which cannot be achieved with drugs," said Engineer. "Pairing sounds with VNS provides that precision by rewiring damaged circuits and reversing the abnormal activity that generates the phantom sound." Like many sufferers, Chepko has learned to cope with the noise. "I have to find some other way to relax to just endure it, take a bath or do stretches or just lie down and stare or read a book, depending on how bad it is," she said. "I have kind of lived around it, or over it."

[rotorknight]

Tinnitus "CURE"?

Just don´t tell Sikorsky that there might be a cure,they might not want to fix the ridiculous decibel levels in the 92 ;)

[whoateallthepies]

Where can I sign up for the trial?!

[sulli26]

UT-Dallas Researchers' Potential Tinnitus Cure Rings Loudly In Scientific Community's Ears
By Robert Wilonsky

Thursday, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:32 AM

​
First I'd ever heard of tinnitus was when Who guitarist Pete Townshend announced the ringing in his ears had gotten so bad he might have to hang up his Fender Eric Clapton Stratocaster for good. Then I became a music critic, stood too close to too many stages and speakers for too many years, and would eventually discover what it was like to always hear a high-pitched something even in absolute silence. But the University of Texas-Dallas sends word this morning that two of its researchers -- Dr. Michael Kilgard and Dr. Navzer Engineer, along with UTD-affiliated biotech firm MicroTransponder -- may have stumbled across if not a cure for tinnitus, then perhaps something approaching long-term relief.

The docs' research, funded with a $1.7-million grant from the National Institutes of Health and published this week in Nature and quickly making the rounds both here and abroad, suggests that tinnitus is reversible after all -- that the perpetual ringing in the ears can be turned down, if not switched off altogether. Long story short: The docs found that if they exposed rats to sound while at the same time electrically stimulating the vagus nerve (which is apparently also called the "cranial nerve X," which just triggered the rare Band Name and Album Title Alert), they could eliminate the ringing in the ears. (Though how one finds a rat with tinnitus ...)

Says Engineer in the UTD release, "This minimally invasive method of generating neural plasticity allows us to precisely manipulate brain circuits, which cannot be achieved with drugs. Pairing sounds with VNS provides that precision by rewiring damaged circuits and reversing the abnormal activity that generates the phantom sound." Clinical trials are scheduled to begin on humans in the next few months. Which reminds me: Kids, turn down the iPod. And get yourself a case of earplugs.

[C.C.C.]

Just returned to flying after 12 weeks off waiting for the Medical Profession, and UK CAA Medical Division, to decide that I have mild tinnitus and recommend I use an ANR headset.

Was told that my hearing loss was very good for a pilot with 30+ years of flying helicopters, and that I could not apportion blame for my tinnitus to the type I currently fly.

However ENT Specialist did not have the statistics of the operation that I work at, with 6 of the helicopter type in question, and a significant proportion of the 38 based pilots suffering from Hearing Loss / Tinnitus / Earache / etc. and this despite the use of CEPs / Custom Moulded 9 or 15 dB ear plugs / ANR or ENC headsets.

The type in question is the S92A, and while it has already been posted elsewhere about problems with blade slap, RHS cockpit window acting as a sub woofer, noisy heater, vent and glass cockpit fans, no-one has previously posted the electrical noise present on the intercom, which Sikorsky are aware of but leave it to the operators to filter out. Unfortunately it is still present even with the use of ENC modules.

Is it just coincidence that this electrical noise is of a similar frequency to my tinnitus, as our helicopters have not been modified yet?

[Up & Away]

Do you Need help?
British Tinninus Association - helpline 0800 018 0527
BTA (http://www.tinnitus.org.uk)
.
With over 11,000 hrs flying, in both Aeroplanes and Helicopters myself, I am hoping to be in a position soon to be able to help other Pilots with the condition.
Do you suffer from Tinnitus?
[email protected]

[Scotsheli]

I'll give them a ring (soooooorrrrryyyyy!)

[czheliman]

Chiropractors can sort out the Tinnitus They say the problem is the neck spine and the blocked nerves around. Search google for "tinnitus chiropractor" there is lots info.

[zalt]

The type in question is the S92A, and while it has already been posted elsewhere about problems with blade slap, RHS cockpit window acting as a sub woofer, noisy heater, vent and glass cockpit fans, no-one has previously posted the electrical noise present on the intercom, which Sikorsky are aware of but leave it to the operators to filter out. Unfortunately it is still present even with the use of ENC modules.


Sikorsky just ignoring a problem... never!

After all:

Sikorsky has a safety management program integrated into its operation. This program utilizes several processes to identify hazards and manage risk from preliminary helicopter design, field operations, and the continuing airworthiness program. Once potential hazards are identified, the level of risk is assessed utilizing processes such as: functional hazard assessments; fault tree analysis; failure mode and effects analysis; and common cause analysis.

Sikorsky has many ways of detecting hazards such as operator reports or deficiency trend monitoring. One of Sikorsky's primary sources of hazard identification is its network of field service representatives. Throughout a helicopter's life cycle, Sikorsky assigns a Lead System Safety Engineer who is responsible for providing guidance for safe designs, identifying potential safety hazards, conducting risk assessments, tracking safety hazards, and verifying that risk has been eliminated or properly mitigated. When a mitigation plan is arrived at and a corrective action is put in place, Sikorsky closes the safety process loop by continuing to monitor the outcome of the corrective action. Mitigation decisions for higher-level potential safety hazards are reviewed by an internal Senior Safety Council at Sikorsky.



Transportation Safety Board of Canada - AVIATION REPORTS - 2007 - A07P0123 (http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2007/a07p0123/a07p0123.asp)

So I wonder what the Senior Safety Council has to say about this hazard.

[ReverseFlight]

They say the problem is the neck spine and the blocked nerves around.

True - an alternative option is acupuncture administered in the early stages of onset.

[SASless]

To hear Bells ringing again.....from church steeples!

[Foggy Bottom]

Quackapracters? Hmmm...Maybe the tooth fairy can help?

[czheliman]

Quackapracters? Hmmm...Maybe the tooth fairy can help?

Than go to doctor of osteopathy :) It is actually same way under different more official name.. Result will be same...