Randhem Aviation and the Jet Airways sponsorship [Archive]

Randhem-Pilots

13th Jun 2007, 17:59

Just received that email:

Dear pilots,
There are some rumors out there and we need to straighten them out.

We are a TRTO (Type Rating Training Organization) and in this case the training provider for Jet Airways.
If a customer refuses to pay we have to remove him/her from training.
We have not received the payment for a large number of Jet Airways pilots and that is the reason your training is put on hold.
This is not the first time Jet Airways are late with the payment but we cannot act bank.
We have however no indications from Jet Airways that the program will be canceled.
50 pilots are for the moment affected, but please be patient.

Remember that your contract with Jet Airways is still valid.

There is two options.
1. Wait and see if we receive the payment from Jet Airways.

2. Self fund the training, the cost will be the same as in your contract minus the deposit of 5000 Euro, travel and accommodation is not included.
You are free to contact us for a down payment of the training.

If you recently paid the deposit, there is a chance we have not received your contract from Jet Airways yet.
Talk to Alexander Ottosson.

Pilots under line training or just starting will continue the training as planned.

Kind regards,

Johannes Berglund
Sales Europe
Randhem Aviation
Lilla Bommen 1
411 04 Gothenburg
SWEDEN

Phone: +46 (0)31 301 1165
Fax: +46 (0)31 80 20 90

[email protected] ([email protected])
www.randhem.com (http://www.randhem.com/)

Randhem-Pilots

13th Jun 2007, 18:08

Some questions still remain unanswered though:

ACCOMODATION:
-Where? which area? Address?
-Size? (m²)
-Air Conditionning?
-Is there security? Guarded building?
-Who pays the bills? Water, electricity, Gaz, Phone (required by the
company)?
-Can we get to chose our roommate?
-Can we get the 1800$ if we don't take the provided accomodation, in order
to get an accomodation on our own like on the other pilots contracts?
-In that case, is the transportation still included?
-Is the appartment furnished? In that case, what is included? (details)
-What will be the overall rating of the accomodation compared to a hotel?
(2, 3, 4 stars?)
-Why is the accomodation not specified in the contract??
-We would like it to be added to the contract.

WORK CONDITIONS:
-Roster? How many weeks ON and weeks OFF?
-How many hours?
-Is overtime paid extra?
-Company travel, who gets it? Wife, Fiancé (not everyone is married), Kids,
Parents? From when? Jet Airways only, or other airlines as well?
-Health insurance covers our expenses up to what amount? what is included in
it?
-Do we get an indian VALIDATION or LICENCE?
=if validation: our JAA licence has to remain current which means
JAA medical, JAA recurrent training and prof check with
an approved JAA TRE.
=if licence: who takes care of the licence conversion?
are there any tests to take?
what about the indian medical?
-Is there a simulator assessment upon arrival to India?
-Would we get to request another base?
-Is it required to by our own Jeppessen? how much does it cost? (Randhem
told us the company will provide it for free)
-Do we get the opportunity to get an upgrade to captain position or long
haul fleet? (a phone call to the ops manager in the UK told us that there
was a possibility for a 777 upgrade after 2 years)
-When do we start to get paid?

SALARY:
-Is the the salary tax free? in that case how much is tax?
-Is it taken directly from our paycheck?
-Where do we get paid? in what currency?
-Do we get a raise to Senior First Officer salary after doing our
proficiency check as Junior First Officer?
=in that case, F/O prof check is after how much time?

Because the contract as is says:

-$3000 net
-housing is not announced in the contract.
-Nothing on the roster.
"Leave according to law" which means:
52 weeks, 6 days ON, 1 day off, with 4 weeks vacation after a year.
-3 years at those conditions, otherwise you have to pay the pro rata AND you lose your 5000€!!

NDB

13th Jun 2007, 18:44

Thank you Randhem.. :ok:

Fingers crossed on both sides!!

Pretzel

13th Jun 2007, 19:45

Amazing how 2 so called international companies can get into such a mess...( and so publicly as well!) but then again if they had answered the questions in the first place, things might not haven turned out like this!!!

:ugh:They couldnt organize a piss up in a brewery!!!:D

A 2 year old has more organizational skills than this lot put together. (excuse the truth!)

WELL DONE!!! :}

Chicken or beef Sir?

13th Jun 2007, 20:07

"There are some rumors out there and we need to straighten them out."
As one of the 'Randhem 50' I'd just like to make the point to Randhem Aviation that rumours appear when there is a vacuum of information. This has certainly been the case here, certainly for me.
As a matter of courtesy to the 50 of us, please keep us informed as we have more than a little invested in this. Even if it is to point out that you are continuing your efforts and will let us know more as soon as you have the information.
I'm looking forward to a positive outcome or my money back.
CobS.

chrislikesblue

14th Jun 2007, 20:13

There is a lot of things unanswered but lets wait and see,i hope there will be a positive outcome.
At the moment it seems that we cant do nothing but wait,asking the 5000 euros back is not going to solve the problem for most of us(definetely thats not a solution for me,i have already resigned from my job and at the moment every day that goes by i am losing money,so its a lot more than 5000!)
Just curious,how long Randhem has been training pilots for Jet Airways,anyone knows?

Randhem-Pilots

15th Jun 2007, 03:20

From what I know, we're talking around 20.
The first group is finishing Line Training in Bratislava.

The other courses were booked to come at a rythm of 1 every 2 weeks with around 4 to 6 pilots per group.
Last course was schedued to first days of September.

Mr Reality

15th Jun 2007, 16:03

How obout this:
DEPOSIT: 5000 EUR (6600 USD)
TSA: 130 USD
Finger prints: 170 USD
Vaccination: 250 USD
Loss of income due to traing (three month): 9000 USD (taxed)
Licence: 200 USD
The extra costs of living during the training: 1000 USD
Travel to and from base check: 100 USD

Some 17450 USD!!! :D ( this does not include 1-2 month of line training)

....and all the trouble that comes with the delay......:mad:

Free type rating :}

Have a good day!

Randhem-Pilots

15th Jun 2007, 21:43

Dear Pilots,
We have received a lot of questions and we understand your concerns.
You have signed a contract with Jet Airways and they are the one you should talk to in this issue.

That's their latest email.
Very nice!

chrislikesblue

15th Jun 2007, 22:17

They are right that we have the contract from Jet Airways but i have the feeling that if we talked to Jet Airways they would probably say the same thing 'talk to Randhem'! Basically they would say it is Randhem that did the interviews and hiring,they are the ones who invited u for the screening,responded positively,invited you for training ,made you resign from your jobs and now freeze the training,so just solve the problem with them!
Basically it is a problem between Randhem and Jet Airways and even though we are involved we cant do much about it,the only choice we have is either wait and hope it is going to work out soon or ask the 5000 euros back,accept the other losses and hope to get another job soon.

wbryce

15th Jun 2007, 22:43

Shouldn't you all be badgering Jet Airways instead of Randhem? After all they're the ones pissing about...

Anonymus6

15th Jun 2007, 23:15

Guys,

Just wanted to let you guys know that Jetairways is no the only one that canceld expad FO's. I was suppose to go to IndiGO myself as a first officer on A320 and I just recieved an e-mail from IndiGo that my security clearance and application has been on hold (pretty much canceld). The reasone is that the last DGCA exam in India more than 1500 indian FO passed their exams. So Indian airlines are fed up with FO,,, THEY HAVE PLENTY AT THE MOMENT,,, the don't need expads. If you are captain you are still golding!!!!

Good luck getting your money back!!!:{

bluesideupsometimes

16th Jun 2007, 11:20

Randhem Aviation,
sorry to hijack the thread but I applied a week ago through the website for the A320 type rating and received no response - can you please PM me to ensure you got my info.

Randhem-Pilots

16th Jun 2007, 13:33

Most of the recruitment agencies are still hiring A LOT of expat F/O's.
If 1500 indians have got their ATPL, good for them.
It's another story to get to the cockpit.
They are not done yet.
Training takes time.

Anyway, let's try to remain positive.
Because, being realistic, if the story between JA and Randhem is not solved, the latter will go OUT of business.
So, nobody is gonna see their 5k€ back.

chrislikesblue

16th Jun 2007, 16:15

Maybe we should set a time limit and after that ask our money back before its too late??
According to Randhem they would try to solve this matter hopefully 'soon',but how soon is 'soon'?

Chicken or beef Sir?

16th Jun 2007, 22:00

Far from wishing to appear optimistic on this forum of doom and shattering the culture pessimism, Randhem Aviation have their reputation and future credibility at stake depending on the successful resolution of this whole issue. I think it's fair to assume that they are as keen as the 'Randhem 50' to get the whole project back on track and resolved amicably. On that note:
The following article may be 'old news' but probably sheds light on the delayed payments which have postponed our training.
By Indian Express
Monday May 14, 02:48 AM
Flying high with its recent acquisition of Air Sahara, and decked in its new livery, Jet Airways today announced that it was mulling a $400-million rights issue.
"We are looking at a $400-million rights issue to fund our expansion plans," said Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal, at an event to showcase the airline's mint fresh Airbus 330-200 and Boeing 777-300ER. To fund its fleet acquisition plans and other capital projects, Goyal said he expected the same to conclude within four months.
The airline estimates that it would "require something north of $50 million" to turnaround JetLite, as Air Sahara has now been re-christened. "However, we are still evaluating the modalities of the same," said board member Vic Dungca.
The airline is also on track with plans to launch a dedicated cargo airline by the year-end. "At the moment we are handling about 6 per cent cargo," said Goyal. The airline aims to increase revenues from this stream to 10 per cent of revenue in 2007-08.
They sound to me like they need pilots and probably not exclusively made up of the 1500 fresh graduates who'll clog up their training facilities with the 'additional' training they'll need.
My guess is a few nervous executives wondering where they're going to get the money to finance this bold strategy. We represent the soft option when it comes to short term savings whereby they can re-assess their cashflow. However, as sure as the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, they'll need pilots again........... and very soon.
I know this doesn't help pay the bills or ease that nervous twitch you've developed since hearing your training is on hold but what do you think?

Chicken or beef Sir?

17th Jun 2007, 09:58

P R Sanjai / Mumbai June 15, 2007
Investment bankers of the carriers to meet next week.
Barely two months after the Air Sahara acquisition, Jet Airways, the country’s largest private airline, is interested in SpiceJet, the Delhi-based budget carrier.
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?autono=287863&leftnm=1&subLeft=0&chkFlg=
Jet operates over 340 daily flights to 50 destinations. SpiceJet operates over 83 daily flights in 14 cities, with 11 Boeing 737-800 aircraft like the ones Jet Airways uses.
Just a little more food for thought and possible explanation as to why Jet are 'freezing' our training payments whilst they're in a state of flux planning their (and hopefully our) future.

natterjack747

17th Jun 2007, 15:35

Time will tell. I wouldnt be too hopeful though.

So did all you guys sign a contract with Jet Airways?

chrislikesblue

21st Jun 2007, 10:05

I dont think everyone has a contract,there are many people still waiting for contract.
What difference will it make anyway,if Randhem or Jet Airways decide to drop the deal,they can do it anyway whether we have a contract or not.Even if we get the 5000 euros back the damage is already made.
Anyone has any further news?

NDB

21st Jun 2007, 10:13

I'm starting to think its gone belly up..

Or a stalling exercise as they don't want us just yet. Clocks ticking. If Randhem don't sort something out, there gonna find themselves without any trainees soon.

They're still NOT telling us everything.. Why doesn't he copy us in on the emails from Jet A?? Are they hiding something?

chrislikesblue

21st Jun 2007, 10:32

I m still hopeful,i dont think its going belly up.Ofcourse there is something hidden,thats a part in all business arrangements and they dont have to copy us in their emails,thats understandable.
What i dont understand is why they didnt make proper arrangements from the beginning,first take the contract for each one and the money for training (if that is the problem???) and then say to people they are given the job,invite them for training....its a lot more clear and simple like this for them and for us.

Pretzel

21st Jun 2007, 10:36

Patience is a virtue...

Dealing with any matter likes this takes time.. just depends on the competence of the people sorting it out.... and this delay says a lot...:mad:

NDB

21st Jun 2007, 11:05

Well patience is running out. I for one have got loans to repay, and would like to get on with my life.

I hope Randhem can see this and will tell us the fully story!

Chicken or beef Sir?

21st Jun 2007, 13:16

I think the most disappointing aspect of Randhem Aviations conduct is the way they fail to pass on any reasonable information. I've had 2 emails from them which bear no real information. I used to get phone calls from them before I paid up my 5000 Euros. I don't anymore.
Most if not all of the 'Randhem 50' will have resigned and will have loans to repay. I for one can probably secure another job with some effort but without any knowledge of when or even IF this will go ahead it's impossible to plan. It would be irresponsible and arguably foolish of me to commit to a new employer if I then get the go-ahead to start the 737 training. I don't want to blacken my own name in what is after all a small industry where reputations count for a lot.
With respect to Randhem Aviation, surely it's a matter of common courtesy and professionalism to keep us (their customers) informed of the current status of this issue. It's free to send an e-mail to all concerned simply detailing what (if anything) is being done to resolve the issue. For all I know they've done nothing and have no intentions of doing anything either.
This silence is frankly rude and discourteous, reflecting very poorly on Randhem as a company. It wouldn't take much to show some professionalism and honour.

Randhem-Pilots

22nd Jun 2007, 16:21

By the way, if you need any information, you can go to 'Randhem Aviation' Hall 6 / C4 stand at Paris Air Show in Le Bourget.
They are promoting their business there.

If anyone is living or going to the area, it might worth the walk...

Randhem-Pilots

27th Jun 2007, 17:51

One of my close friends spoke to one of the JA to managers to clarify the situation.
Here is the real story:

- Jet have paid the 1/2 million US and still no sign or light of pilots, Randhem want more money for the next batches, but they have said no more money until they see the first batches of guys, as they dont know what type of quality of pilots they are going to be provided with... ( i mean fair enough!!! They havent even had any training reports or updates on training status etc. )

- Randhem still havent paid them the deposits they are expecting... they never answer calls or emails, hence avoiding the situation! ( this means its total BS about them saying they only get the contracts after the deposits.. as they havent even paid them yet!)

- There is going to be a meeting and was due to be a meeting this week but delayed till next week. ( Randhem and their tricks again! )

- He was so apologetic about the whole situation and wishes that it could be sorted out sooner...

- They havent called off any training, it was randhem!

- Jet wants the pilots asap, considering the investment already paid out.. (and want to be informed if any of the guys pay off their TR..) as Randhem might be keeping the money and not declaring it to Jet!

- he said sit back and wait for the outcome.. they need the pilots.. just randhem have to show some goods before the expect more investment..

- .. its not our jobs ( as paying clients to Randhem... ) to go and do their dirty work... they are the service provider and shouldnt be sending us emails.. they seemed like they were only trying to get the heat of their backs and gain time!

Now, from what I know, Randhem still owes $600.000 to Panam.
Where is the money???

8ah

27th Jun 2007, 20:05

if I where you, I would wait and se a bit. Don`t beleve everything you hear from jet either. I was on a sim evaluation and went on the written promise that they reemburse the flight ticket. Not happend yet and this was more than 6 month ago. And from what I know of Indian business from close friends, this is nothing new. In this case it is only the facts witch will tell the trouth. Worse case, it goes to court....... And everybody looses....:sad:

Mr Reality

27th Jun 2007, 20:07

For how long would you like to be without salery?
Did you know that pilots and there girlfriends/wifes has resigned from there jobs for this contract?
Some have sold there houses!!
Do you care?!?!

The contract shuld be valid from the first day in Miami or pilots shuld start to get payed.

I know it is easy to blame Jet Airways, but if you, Mr Ranhem didn't flew full time parallel to your own company this deal would be completed by now don't you think. For you it's just money but for the pilots it is so much more than that!

Mr Reality

28th Jun 2007, 05:58

I have talked to him sevelar times and you are right he is reasonable and fair, when he talkes.
For your information that is his job. But the fact is that nothing happens. If you find it bitching to tell how some are in really truble because of randehem aviation that is your problem.

Pretzel

28th Jun 2007, 09:51

wifes and girlfriends giving up jobs....??? first lesson : never take any thing for granted! Selling a house when you havent even moved to India or maybe not even started training?? ermm isnt that getting ahread of the boat!??

To be honest... my opinion.. start job hunting.. thats what I m doing.. if you havent already been fully trained by randhem and signed the contract dont keep your hopes up too high....

Mr randhem is a business men.. he is thinking if making money and doesnt care how many lives he screws up in the mean time!

even if you have paid your deposit they of course are going to hold us off as long as possible to gain interest on it... LOGIC!

Randhem

29th Jun 2007, 19:36

To all pilots that seem to prefer this forum instead of calling us.
I never posted anything on this forum before but I now see it might be a good idea. I have a training company where we deliver a service to an airline. Its unfortunate that the person coming in between in any conflict of interest is the pilot. For those wifes, girl friends etc that writes here, yes we do care but ofcourse it is not us that has contracted the pilots, we are the ones responsible to deliver the training and not the salary etc.
I suggest that anyone that has a problem of understanding the problematics or has any other concern and do feel that you dont have any answer, please feel free to contact me directly and I will clear any question for you. I will not disclose any contract details, payments etc between us and our client. the person using my name in an email address above should not either disclose any information given by a client. It might be that the information is not absolutely correct and therefor beeing subject to several missunderstandings etc. We have been in the business for quite some time now and have a very serious partner, our training center. We deliver a service and a product and we do intend to do so for a very long time. Remember, there are always two sides of a story.
For any inquiries, please contact me, M. Randhem, CEO Randhem Aviation, [email protected] or phone: +46 733 28 45 44.

chrislikesblue

5th Jul 2007, 08:57

Whoever defaults the contract is not our business,we are in the unfortunate situation to be involved in this mess,every single day that goes by is a day without salary for most of us.
I heard they will have a meeting this week in India,hopefully it will be solved.
Anyone has any news or got a date for training?

Randhem-Pilots

6th Jul 2007, 00:31

I have read your message.
As far as I'm concerned, I do not represent a group of 100 pilots since 100 pilots are not involved in the problem yet.
On the other hand, we are only few people who have been trained already, the others haven't put money down yet.

You said a great sentence:
" So the question is do Jet want these 100 pilots this year or not"
Well, latest information from India says that many of the indian 37 pilots who were supposed to go on the long haul fleet can not get the upgrade since the FAA and CAA Canada, require them to have 1000 jet lendings.
So, JA now has too many 37 pilots.

That's for the little story.
Now, as far as Randhem is concerned, $600k gives you about 25 type ratings + line trainings.
With a rythm of 8/mo, it covers 3 months.
That's the duration our training was supposed to last.
You get enough money for a first turnover, until the first guys go to India.

I do not represent 100 pilots, I just talk for a group of friends, who for now, all share the same taste, of being deeply fu**ed !

Thank you for your sympathy!

Randhem-Pilots

6th Jul 2007, 08:57

By the way, it's "randhem-pilotS" and not "randhem-pilot", you forgot an S!

I dont see why I would change our user name. Our group represents more than 1/2 of the screwed pilots, (and the number's increasing) and where WE live, we are kind of used to, Democraty!

All of us are attached to the same mailing list and email address in order to talk directly with Jet Airways, Randhem and Panam.

So, "Randhem-Pilots" is not a "I" but a "WE".
We are ALL in the same boat, with no more money, families to feed and no more job.

8ah

6th Jul 2007, 14:29

Gentlemen

Just some pointers from my experience over the years.

Rule No 1. In the aviation industry. Do not believe anything until you actually sit in the left or right seat flying……

Rule No 2. Always have a backup plan. Absolutely nothing is given to you for free or out of kindnes in this industry……

The list could og on and on and on……. but gents… You are your own master and commanders. Sit put and wait, or get on with your lives….

Hard naked and realistic facts……..

Randhem-Pilots

8th Jul 2007, 14:46

Without any comment, here is the official information from Randhem. (cf. their website)

July 2007

Pilot training Jet Airways
There were some contractual misunderstandings which lead to a short interruption in the pilots training. Pilots already obtained the type rating will continue the training and the first set of crews will be starting their contract for Jet Airways in August. Candidates who not yet started the simulator training will have to wait until Jet Airways can give further approval.
"Randhem-PilotS" group raised up questions and by insisting on a daily basis to get them, using all the possibilities we had (phone, email, face to face) with Randhem and Jet Airways top managment, we have got them.
Even though we won't have the conditions initially promised by Randhem, our major concern was to have answers and be able to look at the scenario we are going to.

The first 25 pilots who have started the simulator training, will go all the way, and the contract will be respected.

For the other 35 pilots who have been given a start date, everything is on hold until AT LEAST all the first 25 get to India.

As said in one of our prior posts, Jet Airways has TOO MANY B737 f/o's now, so the extra pilots will probably go to fly at the ex-called Air Sahara, or Jet Lite now.

chrislikesblue

9th Jul 2007, 23:22

Promises,promises...
I begin to think it is just another scheme to make money.How come all these 'misunderstandings' lead to nowhere,still no answer for the rest of the pilots about when we are supposed to expect to start training after all these negotiations and meetings with Jet Airways.(only this clever proposition that we should fund our own training and move on!!!)

Randhem-Pilots

10th Jul 2007, 05:22

IF and only IF something come for the 35 other pilots, do not expect anything before next year unfortunately.

Randhem-Pilots

12th Jul 2007, 01:21

What is YOUR problem??

hearing information you don't like to hear??

We're just giving information, trying to save people some time and money.
None of us can leave because we all have signed contracts!
Training has been done!
Leaving now, and we'll have to pay an extra 15000€!

psmithmg

12th Jul 2007, 13:32

We've been put in a deep **** by Randhem and JA few weeks ago. We all decided to create an association to defend ourselves and to communicate by email or via pprune, because we all live in different countries.This association is RANDHEM PILOTS!

Since there has been a ******* lack of information given by Randhem aviation it's been usefull to create it!

Now, for all the persons not involved in this program, or who just want to make bad polotics, please don't come here to pollute our only way to share informations about our future life.

We're about 15 to 20 randhem pilotS talking as a same voice. So please occupy you of your own business.

Thanks.

psmithmg

12th Jul 2007, 17:34

Smith,
This is your only way to share information?

=> No, but this is the most convenient, specially to share infos with the randhem pilots we don't know yet. Those who didn't begin the training.

You don't have email or telephones where you come from?

=> No, because I live in a cave!

If you don't want, as you call it, pollution then don't air your dirty washing in a public forum.

=> My dirty washing is just about sharing a service between eachother. If you don't like what we say, don't read ours threads. I can tell you that we appreciate that association and that it's useful for us. No matter about what you can think of it. I hope you can imagine we don't like wasting our time with all this story, we don't do that for fun.

Accordinging to everyone else it is JA that have put a hold on financing the training?

=> Oh, yeah! you're right, according to Randhem(only)JA is the source of the problem.
Anyway, we don't care about who did this or that. The only thing we're waiting for is working as scheduled. Because today we're almost all unemployed due to the RANDHEM JA program.

thanks for understanding.

chrislikesblue

13th Aug 2007, 18:58

This thread has been quiet for a while.Anyone has any update regarding the next training of cadets who are on holding pool?
Any information from Randhem or Jet Airways?(they are still 'negotiating'??)

Randhem-Pilots

13th Aug 2007, 20:36

There won't be any future cadets, as you call it.
Even for those who are still waiting for the end of their training, it doesn't look good.

bear11

14th Aug 2007, 09:09

I quote directly from Flightnight on another thread:

"I've travelled extensively in Southeast Asia for the past 25 years and have spent periods of time in India, including Bangalore.
At present there are a lot of MNC folks living in different parts of the country, mostly executives, entrepreneurs, educationists, spiritual and health care seekers, dual residents etc.
Living in India can be an adventure on its own for a "Westerner". Contagious diseases , hygiene, bureaucracy, visible poverty, communal unrest, unpredictable availability of basic necessities like water and electricity etc. Most folks who travel regularly and relocate are aware of these conditions and prepare themselves and their families.
The outsourced pilot in India is basically, a highly paid manual laborer (you have no rights or protections and rules and regulations can be changed without warning).
Indian folks are warm, courteous and patient.
Anyways, before you decide to sign that .........line, take a trip by yourself /wife/kids and experience India. It may be "for better or for worse", not just a repeat after me statement."

Now, there's a man who knows what he's talking about. Needless to say, it's a real pity that everyone, including TRTOs and outside companies doing business in the country, don't take that on board before they promise things that they can't deliver.

chrislikesblue

16th Aug 2007, 10:16

I guess the only way to find out what the future holds for us is to call Jet Airways.Anyone knows the number of the HR or Flight Operations to speak to someone?

JRT

16th Aug 2007, 16:12

According to Jetairways the deal is still on the table though but things are going slow and security clearance for the first batch of pilots need to be approved before they will be invited down there. The security clearance are however received and under process according to JA.

psmithmg

16th Aug 2007, 19:10

Has anybody contacted JA ? According to MRandhem there is a lack of communication with them. I'm looking forward to seeing what they will tell us, since we're linked by a contract. They should respect it, but I know it's India... These email adresses are the ones Randhem gave us last June when the programm first screw up:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

JRT, when you say"According to Jetairways the deal is still on the table though", where does this info come from, and is it only for the students whom have finished the whole training package or also for those who only did the Type Rating.

About Randhem now, they are not only a training provider!!! they made commercial on the web, they made a selection in order to hire us for JA. They did act like a job agency. They can't, now that the situation is critical, escape from their responsibility.
We don't have to support the wheight of all this story and the likely bad contract Randhem has negociate with JA. Just to say that if we pay for our training, which Randhem wants and in the other hand what we need to do otherwise we won't have any rating to find a job, I can't understand why we should pay for the entire Traning price. Since JA has already paid 20% to 80% of our training.
I know Randhem aviation is a business company, but they can't ask us to pay twice for the same training.

BYE, and good luck everybody. Bad period.

pegase_666

18th Aug 2007, 22:29

As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to sue JA, and I have already met a lawyer, who suggested me to tell you to do the same...this is the only solution to manage to solve our prejudices: waste of time, waste of money, watse of job, ...

Anyway, we must get back our deposit of 5000euros, and on the other hand, we musn't pay anything to Randhem. We should all do that, stay all together, and go in the same way: this is our strength!

Good luck to everyone, and keep in touch.

dartagnan

19th Aug 2007, 12:37

hi,

I have a simple question: what says the contract if JA breaks the contract?

chrislikesblue

24th Aug 2007, 09:33

I sent email to all of these adresses but i did not get one single reply!
Anyone knows any tel number to speak to someone?
Email doesnt seem to help much,they probably dont want to commit by giving any reply by email,perhaps on the phone would be easier to get some kind of information.

psmithmg

24th Aug 2007, 10:57

They don't want to reply to any letter. Yes you're right we need a phone number.

FO 737

27th Aug 2007, 18:56

Guys,

I just spoke on the phone with Jet airways. This Person told me to tell you all that the chairman of Jet Airways (Arash Goyal) has appointed capt. Morris Devaz to help us by answering phones and tell us the updates. Phone Nr +91 99 201 33962.

Good luck.

Fladbrokeandbusted

5th Sep 2007, 11:03

Having just completed my SSTR through Randhem Aviation on the 737 + NG on PANAM florida I would like ANYONE to stay as far away as possible from this organisation. It is a disaster zone no matter if you are through the Jet Airways program or your are self sponored. You will get absolutely no information from randhem aviation and they will be of absolutely no assistance when it comes to you.
I was ready for my skill test in Florida at was waiting for the inspector to arrive. Shoes were shining, nice tie... everything was ready. But guess what.. the inspector never showed up. He was back home in europe on a well deserved break but randhem never made sure that another inspector showed up. 6 guys very pissed off called alexander on randhem aviation and asked whats going on. He said it wasnt randhems fault and he did not care. we could wait another 2 weeks and the inspector would be back in florida. 6 guys now faced with delays, useless planetickets back home, extended hotel stays and more expenses due to randhems aviations ****ty way of running things. People then asked if they would be of any assistance in covering for their extra expenses as they found it unfair to them as paying customers. Alexander laughed at people on the phone and said that it could not even be considered that they would even cover an extra sim session before the new skill test date or hotel or anything else. He didnt care because it wasnt randhems fault, as he claimed. Me as a paying customer was absolutely amazed by their arrogance and lack of info all the way through this process.
Then there is another story about Star Air sending 6 guys on a 767 rating with randhem. Then on their final sim session they found out that randhem is not even JAA approved for the 767 rating as he claimed he was. the 767 manuals were simply 737 manuals with a cover that said 767. Even the figures inside the manual was 737:ugh: They went back home and started all over again.
The stories of this Randhem aviation place is many and they are not good. My advise to anyone else considering SSTR is choose someone else.. please.. for your own sake.. there are loads of places out there to buy a TR. Choose another place where you will get a good experience.
I truely feel sorry for all of you JetAirways guys who is put in a bad situation through Randhem. All I wanted to add to this thread was that its not that good on the selfsponsered side as well. :uhoh:
Best of luck to you all
FBB

boogie-nicey

5th Sep 2007, 14:41

737 manuals with a 767 cover on them, this is the professional world of aviation, do you really believe that?

More and more people are seeing avaition training providers as some form of consumer item where convience is packaged in too. You no doubt recall from your ATPL studies that it's a mosiac of many pieces and I agree if one piece is missing then things can possibly stop working. It's a "dog eat dog" industry at times along with personalities fuelled by egos. So if an inspector doesn't want to turn up we have wait, I don't agree but what can you do. I gather the inspector is actually from the licencing authority and not a Randhem employee thus they have little control over this. I dearly symphathise with your concerns on this but I don't think this "I'm the customer" approach will wash with any aviation authority they consider themselves untouchable. More old Randhem have however provided you with the contracted service and that's there job done.

It's tough I know but hey-ho at the next step you'll get an unexpected bonus that some other job hunting wannabe won't .... who knows but I'm sure it'll all even out in the end.

:ok:

Fladbrokeandbusted

6th Sep 2007, 12:55

"737 manuals with a 767 cover on them, this is the professional world of aviation, do you really believe that? ¨"

Yes I do... I was there at the time. And the guys was send back home to restart the 767 Rating with another TR provider.

"I gather the inspector is actually from the licencing authority and not a Randhem employee thus they have little control over this."

I know the inspector is from the licensing authority and not Randhem but this could easyly been prevented with minimum communication and effort from Randhem. Its not rocket science. Point is that Randhem dont seem to give a sh.. about people after they paid.. and thats standard i guess... but my advice is to warn future pilots to stay away from this bunch of people in the future and go somewhere else.

My course was delayed 14 days after I arrived. Did they tell me before I arrvied. No. Did they promiss me refund from the extra hotelstays, Yes. did i ever receive it. NO. And now they dont answer me anymore even though I have been very polite all the way. :O

boogie-nicey

6th Sep 2007, 14:28

fair point, guess the rest of us willhave to tread carfeully, especially with the legal pressure that will be brought to bear on Randhem by the whole Jet Airways fiasco.

On GS

9th Sep 2007, 15:07

Phileas Fogg wrote:
Chris,
Knowing Mikael Randhem personally I can assure you that he is not a racketeer out to make a quick buck and to hell with the consequences, he has put his own name to the company, he wants to establish a reputable company, and the last thing he needs is this situation.
So, where is he now?:confused:
No answers to emails or letters!
According to the Randhem homepage there is a new CEO.
Go figure if M. Randhem cares at all about you.
STAY AWAY ! !

dartagnan

20th Sep 2007, 09:31

it seems to me that Mr Randhem has underestimated the difficulties to train a pilot.
this kind of business involved many agencies, examiners, instructors,which are under different regulations or laws.
(contract signed in India, with a JAR TRTO, trained in USA,...)

I wouldnt be surprised if Mr Randhem sold his business and went back to fly on the 320.

For the students who are not finished with their training, all I can suggest is to finish your type rating at your own cost.

nicholasblonde

1st Nov 2007, 00:56

noticed the Randhem website states Michael Randhem has left his post at CEO of the organization, and some other guy has the reins now. Must have left after the whole Jet debacle.

NDB

1st Nov 2007, 15:48

Its well past the point now that Jet and Randhem are being rude!

I have passed on all my problems to my FTO who are fully aware now and have ceased all connections with both parties.

I recommend everyone gives Randhem a miss. And as for Jet, well lets hope they don't treat line pilots like this!!

chrislikesblue

27th Nov 2007, 10:56

I would like to confirm that M. Randhem has left Randhem Aviation.I called Randhem 2 days ago and they said they have nothing to do with Mr Randhem,they are independent.
In that case who keeps the money for the deposits?
And who is responsible in case that matter is solved at the court?

dartagnan

27th Nov 2007, 22:33

you called Randhem TRTO, and they tell you they have nothing to do with Mr Randhem:eek:.

at least they should change the name of the school.

(You go to Disney World, and they tell you they dont have anything to do with Disney! :hmm:!!!!)

Phileas Fogg

28th Nov 2007, 00:03

Mr Disney is long since dead :)

Do you go to McDonalds and ask for Mr McDonald, KFC and ask for Colonel Sanders, IKEA and ask for whatever his name is, no, you ask for the accountable person!

If one had a contract with Randhem Aviation then nothing has changed, if one had a, named, contract with Mikael Randhem then you need to chase him, I suspect any contract was with the company rather than the individual thus you're talking bollox.

I happen to have MR's contact information but that would be telling :)

fly2fly

18th Jan 2008, 01:05

January 2008
Letter from the CEO.

Dear Customers, Suppliers and Partners,
I have resumed the position as CEO of Randhem Aviation as of December 20th 2007. Its has been a year of a growth even with a stalled contract for Jetairways. We are still in the process of resolving the training for all Jetairways candidates. We already see an increase of airline training at our training organization and expect it to last all 2008. We can announce that Alexander Ottosson has been appointed as the Director of Operations of our training division.
We will expand our US office as well during the first quarter of 2008.

We have been able to keep our low competetive prices and hope to do so for the entire year of 2008. Our TRI-SFI course has been reduced in price and at the same time changed with adding more simulator training to increase the quality.

I am looking forward dealing with you all and welcome you to Randhem Aviation.

Mikael Randhem
CEO

http://randhem.estar.se/Info/SimpleText.aspx?MenuID=41

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