Spending my miles appears impossible in F, C or D?

[Mr Quite Happy]

I suspect this has been done to death but 30 minutes of searching (and getting side tracked) on this site I cannot find a thread like this. I assume, however it is my fault so apologies and please point me in the right direction.

I am a LH FTL, ex SEN with 460,000 miles in the M&M Bank.

I've decided to treat the wife to an F or C/D with a decent airline (Singapore?) with a flight from Zurich to Singapore to Bali, spending a week in SG and a week in Bali. I figured F out, C/D back. Obviously the trip would also involve some cash to make the miles go further.

In a 15 minutes exercise in frustration on the phone to M&M Switzerland with them looking at Swiss and Singapore airlines they could not find me one F/C/D class between now and May going out (we didn't get therefore as far as two seats or returning!

I have heard from folks that the airlines in the M&M scheme are making it as hard as possible to spend your hard-earned miles.

Has ANYONE any suggestions for what I can do to get the dream trip I've been loyally saving for???

FTL runs out in Feb and then I've three years to spend the miles but have I left it too late???? Spending LH M&M is seamingly impossible?

[tezzer]

I agree, it seems earing the miles is the easy bit, spending them very difficult. I mamaged to blow some of my Star alliance ones last year, taking Mrs. Tezzer and I to Thailand F class on Thai, but the time spent on the phone was a nightmare, not least because I ended up talking to a sub-continental call centre.

I have used KLM/AF miles a few times to send my eldest and her boyfriend to the States, but all in all , it need huge patience, and an insistant manner, couple with flexibility on dates.
Good Luck.

[Mr Quite Happy]

agreed KLM / AF are easy to spend (well I've done 'em all in economy in europe so that was easy).

These M&M guys however are just saying "the computer says no availability".

G

[i-want-a-gold-card]

Had a similar thing a few years ago when I took my wife to SYD with BA in First.
Even as a gold card holder ( back in the good old days..) it took quite a few calls to the Executive Club to persuade them to allow the redemption of 2 seats together on the same flight !.

My advise is keep calling the relevant customer service desk and ask for escalation of the issue.

[PAXboy]

It is certainly true that all carriers limit the number of seats in each class on each flight that may be redemption. Trying to get redemption seats from the UK to South Africa is almost impossible as it is such a high traffic route.

If flexible on dates, you can ask each week about cancellations. However, what they like is to buy the Y seat and upgrade with Miles. In this way they get some cash and you may find that they have more availability for that kind of seat. You can usually upgrade from Y to F but, when buying the Y, you have to make sure that it is, of itself, upgradeable.

For example, VS will charge one cost for a simple Y seat and MORE for a Y seat that is upgradeable. So, they win both ways. I speak with bitter and recent experience of this. BUT I found that just trying to use Miles to get the seat directly, had less availability than if I was giving them some cash.

[Bangkokeasy]

I recommend trying TG.

It is usually much easier to get awards seats on TG and there is a direct flight Bangkok to Bali.

F is very acceptable on TG and compares well with any F, although C is less so, even with the new configuration.

You might even try to do this direct with TG, although I suspect you may have to go through LH.

http://www.thaiair.com/Royal_Orchid_Plus/Redeeming_Awards/Air_Awards_on_Partner_Airlines.htm

In theory, you can redeem your awards on a one-to-one basis within Star Alliance partners, which means you would have enough for F both directions for and Mrs Q H.

[Mr Quite Happy]

I'll try TG, thanks for the tip. Unfortunately we actually want to spend a week in Sing for the atmosphere (?) - as we are looking to possibly move there with the rug rats for a few years expat life. So I wanted to show Singapore off, then dash down to Bali for a private villa/nice hotel somewhere (not Kuta!) to demo more of APAC to the wife, she's then super impressed and we can move there out of bloody switzerland ASAP.

F class EUR to APAC is 180,000 I believe so therefore 360,000 return. My miles are 460,000 in the bank so I am actually looking at spending cash and using miles to upgrade to get max miles. (Kids and babysitter in Y FYI). LH definitely have the rule that you can only upgrade with miles on a certain class of economy (e.g., not the cheapest). I don't know about the other airlines but I would require KNOWING if I can upgrade before I bought economy ticket. Does anyone know if that information is given at the time of purchase?

Regarding flexibility. I looked at EVERY FLIGHT with SG between Zurich and Sing' from Sep 2007 to May 2008 in F, C and D. I did my bit!

[HKPAX]

I had same problem in HK with Marco Polo (Cathay Pathetic). Couldn't get ANY seats on ANY class on ANY flight to ANYWHERE half attractive on a generously wide time window. I filled in a small claims form claiming breach of contract and applying for a court order for them to give me the listed price of a business class return to London in exchange for the quoted number of airmiles and mailed it in saying (politely) "sort this out or this gets filed". A couple of days later I got a phone call saying they would redeem me the ticket for my preferred date. I've no doubt I would have lost if it came to court but they would not want the publicity. It cost me $20 (about one pound sterling) for the forms. Try it......

[ydnpa]

A good tip from another forum for * alliance flights. Register on the ANA website, you do not need to book flights. That registration will then show the award inventory, which will give you a pointer for * alliance although each airlines inventory may be slightly different it will tell you if SQ for example have any award seats left on a particular flight.

SQ awards ZRH-SIN will be very rare as the flight has the new F&C product, which to Krisflyer members is doube the cost

[Bangkokeasy]

I think you may be flogging a dead horse with SQ. I actually gave up my SQ FF card when I was living in Singapore a few years ago for precisely this reason. On the occasions I had to fly SQ, which was quite a lot when living there, I used to credit any miles accrued on SQ to either TG, or to SK, where I could actually use them. In my experience, unless you fly frequently enough to be "Solitaire", then you don't get any favours from them at all.

For SQ to/from Europe, I tried to make a booking in C by (gulp) paying for it last week for two months hence and they were showing full even for that.

P.S. Switzerland to Singapore eh? Better introduce the Mrs to Asia Lite first - she may not even notice the difference!

[ZFT]

I've never been refused a mileage upgrade on TG for either myself or my family using either mine or their accrued points, likewise never been refused a mileage only ticket if there was a seat available on the flight I wanted.

(In a previous life I virtually gave up trying to utilise BA points for all the reasons stated in the above posts).

TG really does seem to recognise the value of their frequent flyers and does not put any obstacles in the way when trying to utilise the benefits.

Now if they would only sort out their entertainment programming......

[Mr Quite Happy]

"SQ awards ZRH-SIN will be very rare as the flight has the new F&C product, which to Krisflyer members is doube the cost"

spoke to the SQ lady in CH and she said there was nothing available for ZRH-SIN and was in discussion for the past 3 months. Meanwhile, she said, i could go via FRA and they have availability.

We advise all with the outcome. but other suggestions are most welcome.

Mr QH

[barry lloyd]

One thing to bear in mind with all this - and I'm not defending any of them - is that SIN/HKG/BKK etc., are all en route to Australasia for most carriers, (whether directly or indirectly), and this is the main reason why it's so difficult. Naturally they want to fill the flight with people who are paying (marginally) more to travel further. Compare this with transatlantic flights JFK/IAD/MIA/SFO etc., and you'll see that there is almost always availability, simply because of the number of seats that are chasing pax, rather than the other way round.
I do sympathise; I was trying to book seats a few months ago with our own national carrier to BKK, but it was completely out of the question.
The whole attitude to 'miles' changed after PanAm found that there was a huge number of people with massive mile banks. They then brought out a rule that they had to be used by a certain date, and for several months, their flights were inundated by non-fare-paying passengers, which simply hastened the demise of a once-great airline.
Naturally the others were watching closely, and then the bean-counters moved in - 'nuff said.

[Mr Quite Happy]

"One thing to bear in mind with all this - and I'm not defending any of them - is that SIN/HKG/BKK etc., are all en route to Australasia for most carriers, (whether directly or indirectly), and this is the main reason why it's so difficult. Naturally they want to fill the flight with people who are paying (marginally) more to travel further."

Baz, on first reading this made absolute sense, but for F/CD there are PLENTY of passengers going on business to those locations (maybe not BKK) so I think that this isn't so. Simply, if i took a straw poll of the number of colleagues that had gone to Singapore, Japan, Honkers on business compared to Oz. Oz would not get a look in. Likewise, if you asked guys in Oz how many of them had been to LON, CDG, FRA on business compared to how many had gone to Tokyo, Singapore etc, it wouldn't compare. So I refute your suggestion.

"Compare this with transatlantic flights JFK/IAD/MIA/SFO etc., and you'll see that there is almost always availability, simply because of the number of seats that are chasing pax, rather than the other way round."

Route and seasons vs. throughput? OBVIOUSLY I can see how you arrived at your first para by comparing routes but I am not convinced. Competativeness has to play a part (no matter how you spell it) and I am prepared to be wrong, but I am not sure you are right.

"I do sympathise; I was trying to book seats a few months ago with our own national carrier to BKK, but it was completely out of the question."

Thanks buddy, it is bloody annoying.

"The whole attitude to 'miles' changed after PanAm found that there was a huge number of people with massive mile banks. They then brought out a rule that they had to be used by a certain date, and for several months, their flights were inundated by non-fare-paying passengers, which simply hastened the demise of a once-great airline."

Great? Must have been before my time. But a reasonable lesson if accurate

"Naturally the others were watching closely, and then the bean-counters moved in - 'nuff said."

Bean counters! Now you are on my track... A friend of a friend in FRA was working on the LH M&M project for a consultancy in order to make the scheme seem the best whilst costing the least. He is quite proud of it.

[PAXboy]

Another example of how you can be given a great 'offer' but they do not always have to deliver ...

I have the BA AmEx credit card which although not my main card, I use a reasonable amount. Last year they sent me a voucher to say that, as I had spent £XX within a certain time frame, I was able to get a 2-for-1 on mileage. Any flight I book and pay (in full) with BA Miles, I will get a second seat for free (+ taxes, natch) for the same route. Only restriction: both tickets are same rotations out and back. Fair enough. "Book and start journey within one year".

This could have been worth a lot as the plan was to use this for the next trip to South Africa which was the only big trip being planned in that 12 months. That is, use 100,000 for a Club seat and get another for taxes only. That is, if you can get two seats on the JNB or CPT route at anything like the dates you need to go in order to attend two weddings in the same month ...

If we were retired and could have gone at any time they offered the seats?? But that is not how it is. So we went on VS with a mixture of miles and money (but there was only enough in that account for PE not Upper. :{) Musn't grumble, the new PS is very pleasant.

So I expect to use the BA voucher for a long weekend in VIE, which will be fine but not worth as much to me and yet BA gave the voucher and can (correctly) say that I could have used it to go to Australia if I wanted. But then, having worked in corporates for many years, I do not expect anything from them. :(

[spanishflea]

Flexibility is the key to using miles effectively. However by the very nature of the average individual accumulating miles, flexibility is practically the only thing they do NOT have!

Mr Quite Happy, I believe ANA have a tool you can use that tells you where there is and is not mileage availability on the Star Alliance. It may be worth taking a look at that and seeing if you can find any creative routings. Obviously if you are in First all the way, then taking connections suddenly doesnt seem nearly as bad as a multi-stop itinerary in Economy.

PAXboy, hard luck with South Africa! I don't think I have ever seen Club availability on the routes because they are flown with Low-J configured aircraft. First is a totally different ball game however, and with the exception of the really peak travel periods, its easy to find First availability on BA to both CPT and JNB.

[Mr Quite Happy]

have joined ANA for the web access, have to say the website is THE most amateur site I've seen in years.

Can anyone hint the link or key words to the find the Star Alliance award flights locations?

[MyData]

Interesting reading. I've never had any problem getting any of my dates / class fulfilled.

For major trips I usually book 3 to 4 months in advance. I'm in BMI Diamond Club and spend my points on the Star Alliance network. Last year had no issue getting two F seats return from MAN to PEK via FRA on LH. This year we've holidayed in Thailand doing the same MAN to BKK via FRA on LH. Seats etc. available on all flights on the days requested.

Indeed, for the MAN to BKK flights this year we were given all kinds of options via LHR (with SQ to SIN then back to BKK), FRA (with Thai), ZRH (with Swiss). I specifically wanted to try out the FCT at Frankfurt so chose the Lufthansa option (I do like their level of service).

For info - each time we flew out we did so on a Saturday, returning on a Sunday / Monday. Don't know if that might make a difference on availability.


On the BA Amex 2-for-1 offer. I also used that some years ago. I was saving points for a Concorde trip to New York and was just THREE MAN<->LHR shuttle flights from getting enough points when Concorde's retirement was announced - by the time I got my points (one week later!) I was told all seats had gone for BA Miles :{ So I quickly made a call to get F flights to LAX and they honoured the 2-for-1 without hesitation, and I got the dates / flights I was looking for.


Perhaps I've just been very, very lucky! Or I fly to places that no-one else wants to go to :suspect:

[strake]

I have found the easiest way to get the seats and times you want is to request them when you are at the airport on a prior trip, in the lounge and can talk face to face with someone.
I appreciate that it is not possible for everyone to do this but it seems to be an unfortunate fact that airlines, having made a very big thing about their FF programs over the years, cannot now deliver on the free flights.
I don't know if the "Air Miles" program is still going but I can't imagine how difficult it must be to get a flight for a family of four for a once a year trip...

Edited to say I never have a problem getting FF to Moscow:E

[spanishflea]

Try getting a family of six out on a summer holiday with miles!

Managed it twice with BA though :ok:

[wub]

Paxboy, I've found the secret of the 2-4-1 and miles is to be totally flexible. I've just come back from a BA Club World trip to Sydney, with a week's stopover in Singapore, booked with a 2-4-1 and miles. I had to book 11 months in advance and had to accept 'offpeak' flights, i.e. out on a Monday and back on a Thursday, but I ended up with about £8k worth of flights for just over £500!

[PAXboy]

strakeI don't know if the "Air Miles" program is still going but I can't imagine how difficult it must be to get a flight for a family of four for a once a year trip...It is still going but I am planning to withdraw from it because it is too expensive. By which I mean that: May 2006, two people LGW/AMS for a five day trip. It was cheaper to go on EZY then to pay some 400 miles each + the taxes. Yes, the TAXES of 'Air Miles' were about the same as the fares INC taxes on EZY. Following that, I had an exchange of emails with AirMiles who would, natch, only break down the 'taxes' thus far and no more.

I also compared AM taxes with the ones levied by BA on that route. As you will know, the flight would have been on BA. It was not a suprise to learn that the BA taxes were different and lower - for the same flight. At the risk of libel, I think that they may be playing similar tricks as alledged against FR in this area.

wub Paxboy, I've found the secret of the 2-4-1 and miles is to be totally flexible.Yes, indeed. But with work, weddings and only six months notice, that was not going to happen.