Cirrus Ownership and Training

[LateFinals]

Firstly Hello, my first post, although I have followed with interest many posts for the last few weeks and am impressed with this friendly supportive forum

I'd appreciate advice and feedback from pilots more experienced than myself. I have 250 hours TT (172's and complex singles) and am IMC rated currently training for my FAA IR. I am interested in buying a cirrus or joining a cirrus group. My initial flying experience of Cirruses is that they are a safe fast plane although the conversion and type training is challenging with the glass cockpit environment.

I'd appreciate feedback from pilots who have transitioned, what was easy and what was difficult ? Which training organisations would they recommend around the London area and any other general advice about owing and flying a cirrus.

Kindest Regards,

LateFinals

PS Please don't let this thread turn into a debate about FAA IR's in the UK which is not intended !

[soay]

COPA (http://www.cirruspilots.org/) is the best place for advice and feedback on Cirrus aircraft, although it does have a US bias. The Free Flight Initiative (http://test.cirrus147.com/) should be able to help with anything specific to the UK.

[Runaway Gun]

Whilst I did not convert onto type, I recently did a bit of right hand seat flying in the Cirruss 22 model in the States.
It's been awhile since I have flown light aircraft, however I must say that I was very impressed.
The glass cockpits were very useful, but I could see new pilots getting fixated with concentrating too hard at all the useful data on the screen (especially the large middle one). Instructors suggest utilising the autopilot when staring at this to any extent. Remember to keep looking outside !! My recommendation is to read the manuals as much as you can, and spend alot of time switching menus before you actually set off for flight.
In general, handling wise it was a joy to fly, the sidestick was easy to use, and it was a slippery aircraft. Remember to plan your descent nice and early, as it won't easily 'go down and slow down' simultaneously.

[Fly Stimulator]

Hello LateFinals,

I had less than 300 hours when I started Cirrus transition training, and most of those were on microlights. Other than that I had been flying the usual 150/2, 172, PA28s etc., so I was far from an expert on anything even slightly complex. Even so, I didn’t find the conversion process too bad at all, though it probably helped that I initially trained on an older SR20 with traditional instruments plus the MFD rather than a full glass cockpit.

In terms of flying characteristics the Cirrus is pretty straightforward to fly. It takes about five minutes to get used to the sidestick, though the electric ‘coolie hat’ trim is a little over-sensitive and takes a bit of getting used to. I found the Cirrus easy to land once I had got used to the relatively flat attitude that you need to use. With stalls you may get a wing drop, and, especially with the SR22, you’ll find yourself heading earthwards quite quickly during a PFL.

Engine management was something I spent some time on too, especially thinking ahead when approaching the destination so that you have time to get the aircraft down to the right speed with the engine cooled down gently. The MFD is very useful for that.

Overall though, as one of my instructors used to say, it’s just another aeroplane.

On the systems side there is quite a lot to learn, especially if you haven’t used the likes of the Garmin 430 in other aircraft. It’s worth downloading the free 430 simulator from Garmin and having a play with that. The MFD is a goldmine of useful information, but it all takes time and practice to assimilate.

When I moved on to PFD-equipped aircraft it took a little while to get used to actually finding all the information I was after on the screen. The full-width horizon display is great, as are the moving ‘tapes’ for altitude and airspeed, but I found I had to hunt around a bit for some of the other information until I had a few hours under my belt. It all seems perfectly natural now – it’s just a matter of getting used to it.

I did the training with John Page at Denham who was doing training for FreeFlight pilots and now also operates through TAA (http://www.taauk.net/), also at Denham. He trains a lot of people for the FAA IR and is an all-round good chap, so it would be worth giving him a call.

[Morgo]

Hi,

I can mirror Fly Stimulator's experience and post! However, I only had 130hrs under my belt when I did my Cirrus Transition Training with John and Rob over at TAA (www.taauk.net). It took me approximately 8 hours to transition on both the SR20 and SR22. Although I hadn't any glass cockpit experience I didnt find that learning the systems was that difficult... maybe only taking about 30 minutes to get to grips with. For me the hardest part was the step up in performance of the aircraft relative to what I had flown previously (PA28 and AA5A). This was the lions-share of my training, getting used to the speeds and necessity to stay ahead of the aircraft in terms of management and flight planning... also, I finally found out why a rudder is needed ;) To remain on top of the glass cockpit systems I purchased the Cirrus Avionics Trainer from http://aerosim.com/bizjet/biz_Cirrus.htm. This helps with familiarisation and procedures although I feel it is overpriced at $500.

Although I live over in SE London I have subsequently joined up to FreeFlight (www.cirrus147.com) who have 5 SR22 and 1 SR20 (predominantly based on the West side of London, although 1 SR22 at Shoreham).

I have only been with FreeFlight for a few weeks but so far my experience has been very positive. They also have some members selling their shares, so an opportunity to buy into the group at very good value

[LateFinals]

Thanks very much for the advice, much appreciated !

LF

[clarksn]

Hi,

I've got around 200 hours on Cirrus.

The flying is actually straightforward, especially if starting on an SR20 rather than SR22 (SR22 takes a bit of getting used to unless you already have some high speed/higher power experience, maybe PA32 etc).

Transitioning to the sidestick takes about 10 minutes - though getting the hang of the trim "hat" takes about an hour (in fact I think they have tweaked the way it works on the very latest models)

Although variable pitch prop that is actually taken care of by a mechanical linkage within the throttle system. Fixed undercarriage so no 3 greens to worry about.

Biggest issue is the avionics -or more to the point getting the most out of them. If you are GNS430 fluent then all you need to learn is the PFD and MFD which are fairly simple with a bit of ground study - helps to know how they are all connected together as that explains the quirks and especially the failure modes. This is a "numbers" aircraft where learning the pwoer settings (% power is displayed so that is useful) for different phases of flight makes things easier - especially for instrument flight - glass cockpit experience will come quickly but not instantly - can take as many as a few hours for your eyes to naturally look in the right place for the right information.

If you aren't GNS 430 fluent then you really need to get to sort that first - luckily free simulator is available from garmin. Allow 3 or 4 hours for avionics to really get to grips with them - probably as much as 7 or 8 if you are starting from scratch with the GNS 430 and getting competent in real IMC).

The MFD can be learned at the same time as getting the other experience - lots of cool stuff available depending on the age of the aircraft and the software including TCAS, Terrain avoidance and Charting - lots of fancy engine management techniques to learn too, though the MFD helps with leaning assistance for best power and best economy.

For training go to John at TAA in Denham (though you will need to book three months in advance as he is so popular - if not use one of his other instructors - he has two now I think) - I believe they are the only CCIP school in the UK (Cirrus Certified).

regards,

Steve
PS I have share in Freeflight which operates 6 aircraft, but am actually putting some up for sale due to change in lfestyle and doing less flying.
PPS. See flycirrus.co.uk for lots of my own Cirrus info.

[stickandrudderman]

I too highly recommend John & Wendy at TAA.
I found the transition remarkably simple (I had around 150 hrs total & IMC, but a lot of that was in a PA28 already equipped with the Garmin), completing transition to both types in a little over 4 hrs.:ok:

However, my first solo trip to Dueville saw me shooting through the overhead:uhoh: due to lack of experience at those speeds.

Having the auto-pilot engaged frees up the old grey matter for further familiarisation with the electronics en-route.

Any doubts or questions I've had have quickly and readily been addressed by John, who is the consumate professional!

I agree entirely with the sentiment that the 22 drops like a stone when doing PFLs though!