New OAT Cadet Scheme ...

[hollingworthp]

There is a new teaser banner on the OAT site to coincide with the ending of the NetJets scheme so might be worth a look on Monday for those who could nor or did not want to apply to NJE.

http://www.oxfordaviation.net/

[JetSetJ]

I would imagine it's the next Thomas Cook scheme!!

I'd watch out for the next Excel scheme too later on in the year!!

It's just history repeating itself:-)

JJ

[Sagey]

It probably is the next Thomas Cook scheme although if it is it is slightly earlier than in previous years. The Excel scheme normally comes out a week or so after the Thomas Cook one has finished. Great way to get your target audience to check your website.

Sagey

[HeathrowDictator]

I was talking to someone at OAT yesterday and they told me that it's a TCX scheme which starts on Monday.

Hope that helps - just a shame HSBC only offer upto £60k on a cadetship, and the student still needs to find £17k :(

-HD-

[bri1980]

That is a big shame indeed: it's also a shame you need to secure it against property: in this day and age not everyone can afford to get on the property ladder either!

All the best to those who apply.

[Adios]

Londonmet,

For those who can't fund the difference, CTC Wings is the only option and it is a good one. For those who can fund an OAT cadet programme, the compensation once working is often better. The NetJets programme seems to have the best pay at around £50K before tax and just over £40K after tax. I guess we'll have to wait until Monday to see what the announcement is. NetJets are still taking applications until midnight though.

[bri1980]

I agree entirely. CTC is the only organisation that can truly claim to bring an airline career within reach of anyone who has the skills.

I wouldn't be able to get the £50/60k HSBC funding for an Oxford integated course as I don't own my house, and I couldn't afford the self-funded top-up I'd need either. This isn't through lack of trying to save, it's just when you have paid the rent and bills, and Mr Brown has finished ravaging your salary, there isn't much left to save!

Unfortunatley the days of airline sponsorship have gone, but let's be thankful that CTC were forward-thinking and innovative enough to begin and maintain a scheme that is still in the spirit of sponsorship: rather than a self-funded 'we will pay you back later' scheme!

B

[dumdidum]

Any ideas how much is FO salary at Thomas Cook after this program?

[Vee One...Rotate]

That is a big shame indeed: it's also a shame you need to secure it against property: in this day and age not everyone can afford to get on the property ladder either!


Don't be so sure. These kind of loan agreements can be bespoke, at least to a degree.

dumdidum,

I doubt you'll find too much detail about the Ts & Cs until later in the selection process but if they are broadly similar to last year's scheme you can expect a starting salary of c. £23k (plus duty pay, allowances, etc.) plus £1k p/m tax-free for 7 years.

Rgds,

V1R

[drunk_scotsman]

dumdidum:

http://www.thomascookjobs.co.uk/USER/airline/pilot_salarie.htm

Cadets starting on: £20,843 ?!?

Though i don't know much this seems to be very low... no?

I assume there are hidden extras that i am ignorant off?

[Vee One...Rotate]

drunk_scotsman,

The financial benefit is the tax relief - see above. The figures on TC's website haven't been updated - the current (basic) starting salary is around £23k (which goes up year-on-year). So, p/a, you can expect £23k (basic salary) plus £12k (tax-free) plus duty pay, allowances, etc. Again, assuming the deal is similar to last year's.

Non-financial benefits are a conditional job offer and a paid-for type rating.

V1R :ok:

[ron83]

Though CTC offers great opportunity to obtain fATPL,and offers unsecured loan and money for living,it's still not an alternative,because ALL students will need to fund their own money for what they call Basic training or simply saying PPL part,and even those who already hold PPL still need to undergo this training...:ugh:

[londonmet]

ron83

Are you sure? I was aware that you could add this additional sum onto the bond for the fATPL part. May I suggest you look into this part.

L Met

[Felix Saddler]

The CTC Cadet scheme seems like the only realistic way for us youngsters to progress!!!

[ron83]

Hi Felix,

the last time I checked info from CTC,I understood that you can get unsecured loan and funding for living,but you still need to cover you PPL training with them,which is called not a basic training as I mentioned before but a Foundation training.:ugh:
Please correct me if I'm wrong,I wish I would be wrong and I wish you can get all inclusive unsecured loan:D
yep,just got on their web site and found out that now they offer full bond includin foundation training and 5k for living expenses per year,might give it a try:E
Regards,Ron.

[bri1980]

[/quote]
Don't be so sure. These kind of loan agreements can be bespoke, at least to a degree
[/quote]

Perhaps so, but it would still need to be secured I'm sure. And I (and many others) simply can't do that. As someone said above CTC is the only way forward to major airlines. You can try Air Atlantique (if you are youger than me).

If CTC can manage to get HSBC to part with cash on an unsecured basis-why can't Oxford and Thomas Cook/Excel/Netjets in combination?

B

[scruggs]

You can try Air Atlantique (if you are youger than me)I thought they now considered us old fogies too. Don't they have the same requirements as Highland, who now say:

Be aged between 18 and 25 years of age*

*Although an upper age limit of 25 has been set, Highland Airways will also consider applications from candidates over 25 with the required qualifications and abilities.

I'm not 100% sure though about Air Atlantique.

S.

[bri1980]

I recently e-mailed Atlantique on exactly this point: reply below:

Unfortunately, it is the policy of Air Atlantique that an application
for sponsorship will only be considered if the candidate meets all of
the basic requirements including age.

I fully understand that this will be a disappointment to you however,
there are many factors within the sponsorship programme which are just
not suitable to the more mature individual. These include but are not
limited to, the policy that candidates offered sponsorship are required
to reside within company accommodation during the full period of
sponsored training, there is only a minimum monthly allowance paid and
the cadets are required to be available on a roster 24/7. With over 16
years experience in conducting cadet pilot sponsorship, we are fully
aware that this is not a situation which the more mature individual with
personal commitments is willing to undertake.

This aside, Air Atlantique do continue to offer pilot employment
opportunities and in this regard, you are invited to contact the airline
directly. Please forward your CV to Ray Allen, HR Manager, Air
Atlantique Group, Coventry Airport West, Coventry, CV8 3AZ.

[Vee One...Rotate]

Bri1980,

Check your PMs.

V1R

[scruggs]

Thanks for posting that bri1980.

With the recent new age laws imposed, are they still allowed to enforce an upper age restriction? It was only after the new legislation was enforced that Highland made the "Although an upper age limit of 25 has been set...." statement. Prior to it their upper age limit was set in stone.

Sorry if it's been asked and answered before.

Thanks,
S.

[PAJ]

Just to clarify, the deal HSBC offers CTC Wings cadets is financing for the training bond, full funding for the Foundation Course (PPL, NR and advanced SE training) and then just over £10k in living expenses. All of this is available without security. If you already have prior experience, you get credited back hours (and therefore money) that you do not use.

[ron83]

Hi guys,

can anyone give links to threads regarding CTC wings cadet selection process,can't find one.

Regards,Ron.:)

[fibod]

Blatant age discrimination. Surely as a cadet programme leads to employment, it is covered by the regulations?

[bri1980]

It may depend how they define the course. If the legislation says that employers can't discriminate on age but doesn't mention students, then they could just call the cadet pilots students? I don't know I'm only speculating there.

Also Atlantique are effectively giving you 70k, so they may be able to impose whatever conditions they like.

If there is someone with a more informed opinion than that please post it.

I also asked if they would make concessions, for example increasing the bond period from 5 to 7 years etc., but this was a no go as well.

B

[drunk_scotsman]

Vee One,

Is the £23k before or after tax?

I assume the £12k goes straight to the nice people at HSBC?!

Also how much do you think allowences / duty pay would come to p/a ?

Thanks for the help!

[Vee One...Rotate]

Hi drunk_scotsman,

The £23k is before tax. The £1k p/m is yours to do what you want with - there is no automatic transfer to HSBC.

It's v. hard to guess what allowances etc. will amount to but I've heard a figure of £3-4k p/a being banded about for duty pay as being a reasonable guesstimate. This is, again, before tax and the tax arrangements with duty pay are slightly different to those with your normal salary.

If you sit down and do the numbers you'll find that the first-year take-home pay will be the EQUIVALENT of a gross salary of £44k (ish) p/a.

DISCLAMER: Please remember that all of the above is based on the deal for last year's scheme - it may not necessarily be the same this time around!

V1R

[Commando Dan]

With regards to having to secure a loan against your house etc... the following is in the FAQ section on the OAT website.

***
How quickly could I obtain a bank loan and what guarantees would I need to offer?

Under the special programme, a loan can be authorised within 6-8 weeks. For UK residents, full security will not be necessary, but the equivalent to a ‘parental guarantee’ will be required by the bank.

***

Does anyone know what a 'Parental Guarantee' entails if, quote, 'full security will not be necessary'?
Does this mean I have to ask my dad promise HSBC i will pay it back?

And is this a different loan arrangement to the Previous NetJets sponsorship scheme?

Cheers, D

[thefunky1]

A parental guarantee is just that, it means that you require your parents (normally although others can do it) to guarantee your financial liability.

The effect of this is that if for whatever reason you cannot make the repayments the bank has a legal right to require your guarantor to cover your libability, in short it gives them someone else to sue.

[link_142]

hi,

so has anyone else succesfully made it through to stage 2? any apt/psychometric tests books i can buy tp prepare? any help pls thanks

[Commando Dan]

Cheers,

I thought it would be something like that :ugh:

[Davey2C]

Here are the pay scales after you finish your training.

Thomas Cook- First Officer and Senior First Officer

First Year
£33,551
Second Year
£35,898
Third Year
£40,205
Fourth Year switch to SFO pay scale
£46,220


Plus allowances



British Airways SSP First Officer

First Year
£28,281
Second Year
£33,400
Third Year
£38,922
Fourth Year
£44,753
Fifth Year
£50,891
Sixth Year
£52,604
Seventh Year
£54,317


Plus allowances



NetJets Europe Cadet Programme Salary

First Year Salary
€36,500
Training Reimbursement
€20,000
Per Diem 200 days less 22 holidays
€12,460
Extra Salary for 6 optional days
€4,200
Extra per diem
€420


NB: NetJets offers annual cost of living adjustments of 3-4% and loyalty payments after three years.

[General Zod]

i'd imagine that those salries are for direct entry, experienced FOs -not brand new ex-cadets :confused:

[dlav]

With BA, I think combined flight/duty pay expect to add an extra 5K to that figure, from what I hear.

dlav

[Gingerbread Man]

The NetJets programme seems to have the best pay at around £50K before tax and just over £40K after tax.

I saw this written on the OAT forum by one of their training team, and thought "pffft" because it seemed completely wrong. How can you get away with so little tax? The govt tax calculator says you'll have £35k with an income of £50k.

[dlav]

I agree, it certainly does seem unusally high........

[redsnail]

Have they included the per diems?

[BusinessMan]

It may be because for people on the OAT/NJE scheme, 20k euros of salary for the first 5 years is tax free because it is classed by the HMRC as "repayment of training expenses". The fact that you may not need to have borrowed anything to do the course is irrelevant - it is a tax break that the UK Revenue allow if you have a job signed up prior to forking out for the training necessary for it (hence 5yrs x 20keuros = c.66k sterling, ie cost of OAT course). One little bonus that the self-sponsored guys & girls will always miss out on sadly.

I think you may be right RedSnail regarding the per-diems; OAT included them in the presentation I saw on it all, though I haven't seen the exact numbers they're talking about here.

[Superpilot]

Anyone over the age of 25 actually make it on to the NetJets scheme?

[hollingworthp]

Superpilot - the average age first time around was 25 (I am 29 and possibly the oldest) and the average age this time around is 27.

[Potential]

Hollingworthp, how do you know that the average age of the NetJets cadets is 27? I followed the last selection on the OAT forum but it is practically dead this time around. Have the successful candidates been named already?

[hollingworthp]

I don't know if the people have been named yet - it was a stat I got from the company.

[MrHorgy]

They are launching a TCX scheme? With TCX/MyTravel laying off circa 100 people? Can't wait til BALPA get wind of this!

Horgy