B737NG Captains SPICE IT UP

[Nevrekar]

I have just joined Spicejet in Gurgaon, India as a Captain on the B737NG (800/900ER). I was previously with a major US airline flying the NG. For those of you considering India, Spicejet might be a good place to hang your hat. You must be 737 typed with 500 hrs PIC on type.
I had looked into JetAirways & AirIndia Express but decided on Spice instead. My major reasons for selecting SpiceJet were:
1. Smaller, and more personable as a Company. 11 A/C with 10 more coming.
Easy to communicate with them and they are very friendly and accomodating even after being here. Management team is top notch and pilot friendly.
VP Flight Ops is Jati Dhillon and Chief Pilot is Jack Ekl (Southwest/former USN Blue Angel #5). They go out of their way to make you comfortable. All the Capts and other pilots I have met have been very approachable and friendly. Other expats here love the place for the most part. They are hiring lots of age 60 guys from UAL, SWA, CO, AirTran, Suncountry, Alaska, AA.
2. Monthly scheduling. You get a monthly schedule so you can actually plan things. While they may be changes from time to time, you at least have a pretty good idea what you are doing all month. No daily rostering like JetAirways. It's 10 weeks off/3 weeks off, but they can adjust that. Like I said they are very accomodating. Mostly(90%) day trips--I have my family with me and so thats a big plus.
3. Pay is about same as any of the other pay packages offered.
4. Basing: New Delhi & Hydrebad. No Mumbai!!! Yipee. That was a big one for me.
5. Accomodations: 5* Hotel in Delhi like Taj or DLF City Club. Otherwise they give you $1500/month or a furnished apartment.
Hope this helps. Good luck in your job search. I highly recommend that you
SPICE it up !:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[skytrek21]

Good post...definitely helps the guys looking for jobs in India and it's a really nice place to live and make good money. Whenever you get a chance post what you think of the industry there. Whether all the companies flying there are making money or you think consolidations are in the works. Good info thanks in advance.

Sky

[bear11]

I'm not disputing the majority of what you say, and it's great (unusual) to hear an expat in India who isn't complaining about a multitude of things. I would query your point 3. though - 2 Captains I know shopping for 737 in India at the start of this year decided to go elsewhere for one reason - they weren't being paid for their 3 weeks leave! Spice are unique in this, and they don't do flights home, which Jet and Air India do. If you add this all up, your comment on pay doesn't stack up. Can you confirm this is still the case?

[Nevrekar]

Havent heard anyone here complain about not being paid, and trust me I would have heard! I ran into a guy last week who has been here 4 months and he said "its a great place to work, you are really going to like it."
For the B-200 guy who sent me an email. I hate to be a naysayer, but the big thing here is time in type. Even time on the 737-200/300/400/500 does not seem to be greatly appreciated. They really want 500 PIC in type they currently fly for Capts. F/O's--they get Indian cadets with 250 hrs, so they have no incentive to hire expats. Some carriers do hire expat F/O's I'm told.
Spicejet is not one of them. With the age 60 rule, many 60 plus guys are coming over for some "play money."

To answer the last point made--You are correct--You DO NOT get paid when you take your 3 weeks off. Instead you get a travel allowance of $3000.
It amounts to making a bit less than Jet but QOL issues wise Spice is a better bet.

[HAWK21M]

Nice Guidelines for those interested.
Blue Dart has started hiring Expats F/Os too after Commandrs due to Pilot shortage for the B732SF & B752SFs.
regds
MEL

[Nevrekar]

Just completed my PIC "line check." I did several observation flights to get familiar and then 2 legs of IOE and a 2 leg line check. The hardest part for me was getting my bearings and getting used to the new procedures, accents and airports. They just give you a bag full of manuals. No ground school or indoctrination whatsoever. Lots of paperwork for performance etc. Its all done manually. No ACARS. Checkairman were very nice and friendly and experienced. Most of years of military flying plus a decade or so in civil aviation. F/O is responsible for paperwork (thank god!) and ops does the W&B.
They try (emphasis on try) to pair you with an experienced F/O for the first week or so, and then you can get just about anyone. Most of the F/O's have around 250 hrs when they start and are coming from a C-152/172/Seneca.

[The Dominican]

Most of the F/O's have around 250 hrs when they start and are coming from a C-152/172/Seneca.

It is like that in any regional in the US right now as well:hmm: We are a few years away from that being the case in a 73, but it is coming:ooh:

[NelsND]

Thank you for a very informative post on spiceJet. After personally looking at another Indian carrier, I think spiceJet will be a much better fit for me. It's refreshing to read a positive article about a carrier and its management.

[Nevrekar]

The big complaint at Spicejet from expats right now is that they are flying too much. They do a monthly schedule but since they are so short Capts, they keep changing the schedule on you. Until they get more guys, I was told by other expats to work 6 day on/1 off, 30/7, 120/month. Some guys like that since they are sitting in the hotel anyway. The schedule is 10 week on/3 weeks off. But many negotiate other terms. They are in need so they will probably be open to just about any schedule terms. Indian Capts I am told fly 75-80 hrs. The dollar is losing ground on the rupee (used to be 45=1US). Now it is around 39 to a dollar. So keep that in mind. The problem as I see it is that they overwork you since they are short. But then guys get burned out and quit, which really shoots the airline in the foot. The work ethic in India is very different. People work 6 days a week normally and so scheduling does not seem to differentiate a desk job from flying. As I observe and learn more I will be happy to post. I will try to be as un-biased as I possibly can. Just know that while the opportunities are great, India may not be for everyone. Please come here at check it out before you sign. That would be my suggestion.

[fullforward]

Congrats for more one nice, honest and unbiased post.:ok:
This is what Pprune is all about.

PS.: how did you figure out this user name?:confused:

[unruly]

Probably from "nerve wrecker"? :) Just kidding! At last, a breathe of fresh air! Good post!:ok:

[Nevrekar]

Actually I am fairly transparent. It's my last name!! I have been called Nervewrecker, and also Never-a-car, always a bus! I am a US citizen of Indian origin who has never lived in India for any length of time. The last 19 years has been at several FAR121/135 Carriers in the US, including a stint in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. Here is a list of carriers:

Conquest Airlines, Austin TX .. No longer operating
American Eagle, NY, MIA.
Carnival Airlines, FLL No longer operating
Sempati Airlines, Jakarta, Indonesia No longer operating
PanAm Airlines Furloughed
Kitty Hawk Not operating
Saudi Aramco
Midway Airlines... Shut down Sept 12, 2001
AirTran Airways
Spicejet

[Nevrekar]

Speaking of schedules and changes. Spicejet does a monthly schedule. Most expats here don't pay much attention because it keeps changing. For example, today is the 7th, and they have posted change #7. Expats are given SIM cards by the Company (you have to buy your own phone). You are apparently expected to answer the phone, even on your days off. It's very different from what most of us might be used to. The days of 15 days off etc are non-existent here. Also you seldom will get a long stretch of days off in a row. Bear in mind that this is what I am being told by expats who are currently here. I have not experienced this first hand but I am mentally preparing for this. The contract states minimum 8 days off. Expats are not getting that necessarily because you are not assigned "DAY OFF" on the schedule. You are simply not on duty for the day. All that means then that it is a day off unless they decide to call you out. Some expats went to scheduling yesterday-- "Blanket party"??? I have to clarify the day off policy because right now it is as clear as mud. Also some schedules have you RON somewhere for 24 hrs, and your day off is there. Works ok for single guys, but for family guys like me(family with me) it does not serve much benefit.

[jati dhillon]

i greatly appreciate the frank discussions and comments being shared about SpiceJet. The last few weeks have stretched the pilots due to grounding of aircarft. A spate of unrelated unservicibilities of pressurisation, alfa vane damge, engine change have occured in quick succession which required rescheduling of aircarft.

Considering the commitment to the travelling public, flights were not canceleld but rescheduled. The comoany ran a 11 aircarft schedule with 9 aircarft for a few days. This tore up the monthly schedule.

Things should stabalise by Monday.

[NGFellow]

Nervewrecker--I hope that your transperancy as you put it does not get you in trouble. Look out for "Big Brother"--You are obviously used to speaking your mind without reprimand. It takes B***S to use your own name on this forum. I know a lot of guys who have been raked over the coals because of something they posted on Pprune.

[Nevrekar]

Thank you for your concern. I remember when I interviewed with Saudi Aramco back in 1997. They were very concerned that applicants and especially their wives would be able to adjust to life in Saudi Arabia. Many folks looked only at the money aspect, got there and didn't last more than a few months. It was counterproductive for ARAMCO because they spent tons of money to get you there, and now they had to hire someone else. The point I am making is that you are better equipped to make an informed decision if you know the facts ahead of time. From my experience US flight scheduling/Ops is quite different from India. Someone used to having 15-17 days off a month (I did), with designated days off (no phone answering) needs to be aware that this is not the case in India or in many parts of Asia and the ME. It is not a Spicejet specific issue. It is a cultural one.
Its apples and oranges. On the flip side of the coin, there are numerous positives here that can be used to offset the negatives. It depends on your approach and attitude.

Contract pilots accept contracts for a variety of reasons. Many stay for a few short months, while others stay on longer because of need or simply because they enjoy the organization and the flying. Some even come with their families. My case is unique. I chose to come to India for personal reasons. I was very happy in my last position and enjoyed great seniority and scheduling. I found Spicejet on pprune and folks were quite happy working there. Even those who had left had nothing bad to say. So we decied to have a go of it. My wife & I came in March to check things out and meet the folks. We made a major decision to move to India. We sold our house, cars etc and shipped all our personal belongings at our own expense. Our being in India is for the long term. We have lots of family here, business and other opportunities, and we can live in India without a time limit. We also can converse in the language--atleast enough to get a point across. All these aspects make India much more palatable for us.

Spicejet is a growing organization with a lot going on in its favor. The load factors are phenomenal. I have yet to meet someone who was unfriendly.
The operations are very efficient. We do 20-30 min turns.
We have a great bunch of Indian & expat pilots. I have met a few of them.
They have varied backgrounds and this place has become a mini United Nations! It brings a lot of flavor as well as good experience to the flightdeck.

If you are a 737NG Capt considering a contract in India then I still think that Spicejet is one organization that you should consider. I wish you well in your quest. :ok:

[NelsND]

Thanks again for a VERY informative post. And I am especially impressed by a Director of Flight Operations who takes the time to explain what the problem of scheduling was, and on this forum. As I stated previously, I went to Mumbai for a screening as was not impressed with how it was handled by a "major" carrier (I never did get my air fare reimburstment as advertised, but I would have gone anyway.) Your posts and the words about SpiceJet from the Chief Pilot have assured me that I am making the right choice. I've been an expat before, and what you say about the job is absolutely correct. It ain't for everybody. Check it out for yourself, it's worth the tripand expense.

[Nevrekar]

Just completed my SIM training/checkride in Hong Kong. The company does their sim training either in Mumbai, Dubai or Hong Kong. I was sent a packet with all information needed including foreign exchange for the 3 days I would be here. Transport picked up and took me to the airport. I traveled on AirIndia (economy) and it was a 5 hr flight. We left at 11PM and arrived 0700AM. HK is 2.5 hrs ahead of India. I stayed at a very nice hotel called the Novotel Citygate which has a mall connected. It is 5 mins from the airport and the surrounding view is breathtaking. A few hrs after arrival I received a call from our Chief Pilot, Jack Ekl welcoming me to HK and giving me details of report time etc. My sim was from 1945-2345 for two days. We met downstairs at 1830 and the hotel takes you to the training center. The training center is called GECAT. It is a GE/Cathay Pacific training center and it is very impressive. First day in the Sim was recurrent training. We covered a variety of items no different than what you might expect at any FAR 121 airline (if you are coming from the US). Here is a list of things I remember.
Start problems, taxi out engine overspeed, hig/low speed abort, windshear profile, v1 cut, 2eng ils, 1eng ils, ieng vor, non radar vor with full procedure, steep turns, all stalls, eng fire, failure, damage, rapid D, emergency descent, visual approach, flap assymetry leading to no flap landing, cat ii to a G/A followd by eng failure on G/A, pilot incapacitation, cargo door open in flight, eng fire/fail on short final etc. etc. The next sim session was similar and items were introduced at different times. Ther were no tricks and I found the training/checking to be excellent and unbiased. Debrief was thorough and meaningful. Initially I did not know what to expect and after going through it I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't get to see much of HK or get any suits made this time! I was too busy hitting the books. US citizens get a 90 visa at the airport while Indians get 14 days. If you like to gamble Macau is 1 hr away via ferry. Hope this helps. Best regards.:ok:

[rajchid26]

anand,
i appreciate ur candor and i do NOT think that is any cause for worry.I'd just like to put down a few observations on expats in general as a chkcrew member,for the benefit of all:
1.RTOW charts are a weak area,espy with 998mbs &49C.
2.A few donot rigidly follow procedures ,thus setting a poor example to the youngsters.(ex152/172)
3.Excessive VNAV /LNAV reliance, in that ,there is many a time one is just told to intercept radials,this leaves a slightly greyarea.
4.While things r NOT ideal in INDIA, it does hurt one's national pride when these r criticised very often.
happy landings

[speedtwoten]

Very interesting post fro Navrekar, how could we apply to Spice, heard any restriction for expat in India to change job, as I'm now flying for Air Sahara which so mess organisation lead by graduated Capt from Jet Airways name Capt. S. Kapur, more expat here are looking for other job's but restrict by company to obtain No Objection Clearance, even you are resigned.

[Nevrekar]

Not sure how a job change is approached in India as far as expats are concerned. I think there is a 6 month no compete clause in most contracts for expats in India. If you leave a carrier you must wait 6 months to join another. As far as the NOC (no objection certificate) I guess you can approach the carrier you wish to apply with. The Indian civil aviation market is still a relatively small one. I can bet you that most checkpilots and management pilots know each other from the military or previous airlines. We lots of ex Air Sahara, Jet, etc etc guys. As they say have your people call their people and see what happens. As long as you have a good record and reputation at your current place there should be no problem getting a NOC I would think. Ofcourse, you would have to go elsewhere for 6 months to comply with the contract.

[davidjurgens]

Hey!
i wanted to fly for an Indian airline with a 737 type. But I dont have any hours in it. Does anyone know if an airline is hiring with just a 737 type rating.

[Nevrekar]

Spicejet is actively seeking DEC for the 737NG. But no airline here is hiring expats without time in type. 500PIC in type. No grey area there. The airline might be interested but DGCA wont allow it, as far as I have been told.
Spicejet is a great place to be if you are considering a contract job in India.
B737-900ER's are on the way and I can bet Intl flying will be next. This is a pilot friendly airline and the tone is set by the top guys. Lot of guys left other Indian carriers to be here. The Gestapo/Mafia does not exist here!
Resumes to [email protected]. If you are not current/qualified with time in type please dont send your resume.

DEC= direct entry capt

[MYROSTERSUCKS]

This might help some with a type endorsement but no hours....as per the new regs if you have at least 1000hrs total time and a type rating on say a 737 you cld be hired!! If less than 1000 hrs total u need type experience!

[freightpuppy]

what are the new regs any more details, and where are they posted.:rolleyes:

[davidjurgens]

Hey!
I was wondering if anyone knew what the requirements were for first officer and if spice jet is hiring anyone for first officer. if so, who do I contact! Please help:)

[freightpuppy]

Seriously guys does any one have details on the new regs regarding what MYROSTERSUCKS mentioned or its just another rumour.:=

[MYROSTERSUCKS]

you guys cld contact Jet or Spice or Blue dart n check with the HR people!!! FO's with type endorsement who have at least 1000 hrs total are being hired.... cheers!!!!

[divinesoul]

what are the new regs any more details, and where are they posted

This is what the Indian DGCA website has on foreign crew

http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/D7G-G2.pdf

[Nevrekar]

As of today at Spicejet there are no expat F/O's. Only expat Capt's on the 737NG with previous NG experience and/or EFIS/NG conversion endorsements.
Spicejet has a cadet entry program as well as direct entry for other qualified Indian F/O's. I have been told that F/O manning is more than sufficient. So much so that some F/O's are being contracted out to Oman Air for 1 year.
Perhaps some other carriers have a need for expat F/O's at present.

[jati dhillon]

The DGCA India has issued a CAR to which a link has been posted earlier. The gist is that we take pilots who have type rating on the B737 NG. He need not have any time on the B 737 NG, but must instead have PIC time on B737 variants of 1000hrs. Glass cockpit, PFD/ND experience on other aircarft types and total experience is considered. The comapny would provide IOE (line flying experience) on th eB 737 NG

The company prefers to hire Captains from reputed airlines and is not hiring expat First Officers. Proficiency in english is essential.

Expat pilots wishing to change companies in Indai can give a notice of leaving the company, and can join another Indian carrier at the end of six months or earlier if they get an NOC.

We look forward to enthusiastic and commited pilots in our cockpits, willing to take on the challenge of a rapidy expanding avaition industry.

[Rahul B737]

Can you please help me Capt Nevrkar
Hello Sir, I am a maharshtrian and will be acquiring my US Citizenship very soon. I am going to take up The Overseas Indian Citizenship scheme provided by the Govt of India.
I will be having no restrictions on any employment in India.
Will I be considered a Indian national or a Expat when I apply for a flying job in India.
Also what would you suggest.
Should I get my Indian CPL or stick to my FAA CPL with a B737NG Type rating with no time on type.
My e-mail id is [email protected]

[acmd]

I am in a similar situation and would very much like to hear comments on the issue of hiring practices for pilots of Indian origin but holiding citizenship from other countries.

[Nevrekar]

As Capt Dhillon stated in his earlier post, and this ofcourse only applies to Spicejet. Since we are not hiring expat F/O's, you have to come here as an Indian applicant. What that means essentially is that you will have to convert your foreign licenses to Indian before you can be considered. Other airlines may have different requirements. Good luck in your aviation career. For many
young/old aviators India now is truly the "land of opportunity". For F/O candidates, please attempt to complete all requirements in earnest as there is soon to be (if not already) a surplus of new-hire F/O applicants. I'm told that there are close to 4,000-6,000 Indian pilot trainees all over the world attempting to soon break into the aviation market. So it would help to be as competitive as possible. For example if you are applying to Spicejet, having a B737 Type or experience will probably put you ahead as would having Airbus type for Kingfisher, Deccan or Indigo. My best guess is that the applicant who stands out the most with competitive stats, skills and a good attitude will be picked up first. For others, it will be "take a number, we''ll call you, don't call us." A simple matter of supply/demand.

P.S. For the record, these are just my personal views on the subject and not an official representation of Spicejet hiring policy. I am not invloved in hiring or at any management level at the carrier.

[NGFellow]

Nevrekar--Do you know if Spicejet is planning on changing their terms and conditions anytime soon? A little "birdie" told me there are losing a bunch of expats next month and half a dozen Indians have turned in their papers. The big issue I'm told seems to be the pay issue,unpaid leave, poor rostering and substandard hotels. I had considered Spicejet way back but chose another brand X instead. Most NG operators are offering around $1000/month more than Spice, 12 days off a month with a positive space ticket to commute, stable roster and paid leave plus 5 star hotels. Besides once the age 65 rule kicks in the US I doubt that many of us will go overseas if we still can fly in our home country.

[Nevrekar]

I haven't been privy to any information suggesting that there will be a change in T&C's here although I imagine it is possible for new entrants. Especiallly because of the falling dollar. Dollar has gone from 48/1USD to 39/1USD.As mentioned once the age 65 rule takes effect the pool of NG Capts and Capts at large will dry up. I do believe Indian Capts are on par with expats as far as gross pay is concerned. They still have to pay for their housing and Indian taxes. As far as mass exodus, not aware of that either although there are always rumours of such. True there might be a few leaving (X-mas holdiays) but that I think is factored in when considering manning of contractors. It is to some extent a revolving door process. Bluntly put, there is seldom "brand loyalty" when it comes to contract flying. If you are a contractor flying in some distant land without your family and support group, it makes no difference whether you are in India, China or Korea. As long as the T&C's are good. This is not in any way to discredit anyone who flies as a contractor. It's part of the human equation. Any Indian Capt asked to fly in a distant land without family and support would probably be exactly the same.
Life as a contractor for me is very different because I get to see my wife and kids pretty much every day. I am sure if I was here on solo status, I would most likely look at commutable contracts (Korean Air) and other perks. Then again I would never have left my previous airline for a solo contract. I am told that a carrier in South America is offering a 2 week on/2 week off contract for 737NG Capts. It would make it very attractive for anyone living in North America. It would be an easy commute as well.

[non sked]

Great thread: View from a old guy who did the ex-pat deal during the 70's in Indonesia, ME, SE Asia in B707's. I retired from a 121 Airline with retirement in tact, good health, and lots of B737NG time.

When Bush signed into law the fly to age 65 bill I started to look at doing the foreign country thing again. The "dream" was to find a country that needed a experienced B737 Capt with the goal being to learn about a different country and culture. What I found was yes there are lots of countries that need qualified Capt's but there is a huge downside.

Most operations will fly you max on and min off. 6 days on and 1 off seems to be the norm. The dream now becomes the stuff that nightmares are made of. Most people really don't know what to expect when taking on a new job in a new country. The WX, culture, food, bugs, ect ect. All this takes time to adjust to and working that kind of sched. will cause a event in attitude or health issues. What was fun and exciting at 34 or less was now at 63 looking more painful than not.

I don't need anymore practice flying the B737, as Im as good or as bad as I will ever be. Will I be able to take advantage of the country Im a guest in or will I be slaving over a hot auto pilot most of the time. With little or minimal time off would I have time to enjoy the country and it's people or would I fall into bed exhausted with my one day off.

Now if I was building time I would take this gig in a heart beat. Did it when I had to and loved the experience. Real grateful that someone with the grace and kindness gave me a job when I really needed it.

SpiceJet, weirdjet, nojet, anyjet. You will pay a heavy price to pump handle a Boeing around these days. When I retired and set the brakes on the B737-900 in 2004 I should have known that I had seen the best of it.

Not to be a downer, just a different view from the particular ox that Im on.:ugh:

[Stingaling]

All good stuff coming out on this thread.

I am thinking of coming over to India as P1 on the 737 but the big issue for me that I can't find out on this thread is this. What is the take home/net pay I could expect to be paid if I was selected for employment by an Indian operator?

[Nevrekar]

For a contract in India the amount quoted to you by the contract organization should be NET pay. The amount is usually for 80 hrs of flying. Anything flown extra will be at the applicable hourly rate and paid in the following month (arrears). Housing is either an allowance or a hotel stay. Your leave is either paid or you get a travel allowance. Your taxes are supposed to be paid in India by the company. You are responsible for your home country tax.Pay scales vary based on type of A/C and seat--i.e Line Capt, TRI, TRE. You Should be able to take home somewhere between $8500-$12,000/month, depending on the flying accomplished.