Paying for training while working full time

[Capt_SlackBladder]

I am looking to start my helicopter PPL very soon and aim to move up to CPL eventually with a view to making a career out of it. I will be taking the modular route as I have to work full time and am only really able to fly at weekends (and perhaps some more intense blocks of training during holidays). I just want to know if anyone else out there has taken this route. If so, what was your job whilst training and what kind of salary is required to afford it all? I am an engineer (fairly junior at the moment but still have a salary close to £30,000) and work 9 to 5. I have a mortgage and bills but I live alone with no family to support etc and always have a decent amount of disposable income each month.

Also, what're the options on gaining a CPL? Hour build until at an employable level? I know an instructor rating and then building hours working is an option but that would mean leaving my job and instructing full time. I've heard that it's poorly paid and unreliable so I'd rather have the security of the job I'm in now until I am employable in other areas of the commercial sector.

Any advice or even tales of previous / current experiences would be greatly appreciated.

[Al Smith]

Hi I did my PPLH in 2005, whilst being a secondary school teacher. This gave me the advantage of school holidays and it took me 75 hours and nearly £17,000 but I manged to complete the course in under eight months. I am now doing my CPL ground school via the modular course at London Metropolitan university. The course fees are about £2,000. Its a very expensive process, but I guess, in the end, worthwhile.

[Bravo73]

Slackbladder,

It can be done but (by all accounts), it is very, very hard work.

Try sending a PM to The Nr Fairy (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=23150). (He followed the route that you suggest and is on the cusp of changing from old job to new job).

He might even add to this thread, if you're lucky...


With regard to which route to take after initial CPL(H) training, the best advice comes from Camp Freddie:

"Option A, CPL(H) only, high risk, chance of employment poor or nil
Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns"


Best of luck,

B73

[gulliBell]

That's a lot of money to be spending, particularly when you have a mortgage to pay, and even more so considering there's only a very remote chance of getting a flying job soon after getting the license.

Unless you're doing it to get a flying job there's not much point in doing it. Just be prepared that it's a very long road ahead, and the only guarantee is it's going to be expensive.

But whatever you decide, good luck to you.

[Capt_SlackBladder]

I understand that it's hard work but it's the only possible way unless I get a load of cash somehow. The other thing is that I'd like to get a PPL just because I enjoy flying. I've already got a fixed wing PPL but had a trial Helicopter flight and found it much more enjoyable than any other flight I'd had. The reason I want to keep my job is that I may decide not to go for the CPL but I definitely want to fly in some capacity. I just figured that if I flew for pleasure for quite a few years I'd end up building up a substantial number of hours and could start thinking about taking the CPL exams.

Does anyone know if there are flight schools that take on instructors to just work at the weekends? Just a thought.

I want to keep my job because I don't want to go for ithe flying career, fail and be left with no job, no career, worthless or no license and no money.

[Whirlygig]

There are lots of us who are doing the modular route with a full-time proper job - it's quite common. Part-time instructing is probably the way many people start; the problem is having an understanding employer who can let you have time off and, of course, there comes a point when you'll want to bite the bullet and become a full-time pilot.

However, do your costings and research well. There's a lot of sound advice on this forum and many questions have been asked before but you are certainly not the only one.

Cheers

Whirls

[The Nr Fairy]

Well, I was very lucky. Having gone to Oz for work for a year and turned a PPL(A) into a PPL(H), I came back to the UK with old wife and mortgage and a new child. The lucky bit was a) having a supportive wife and b) being paid shedloads to sit at home most of the time for 18 months.

After that it got a bit difficult - had to find a new job, which paid a damn sight less. But a combination of luck (some commercial work mostly on R44s), and planning (getting R44 and B206 type rating) helped. What didn't help was ending up overtorqueing a JetRanger while flying commercially, and the fallout meant I didn't fly for a year or so.

However, the GAPAN FI(H)R scholarship and a supportive boss last year means I'm now in a position where with a good following wind, I can build up hours and get paid for it. Keeping current and building hours until I've no mortgage (10 years, aged 52 or so) means I'll have a decent commercial working life and a longer instructing life left in me, unless I win the lottery first.

I've no clue about your financial position, but mine at the time was peachy. I added it up once and from my PPL(A) in 1989 to my CPL(H) in 2005 I spent the neck end of £55,000 - but I told my wife it was only £300 a month over 15 years :)

That's pretty much it. If you want it, you'll get it - I'm taking my time over it

[Chukkablade]

Slackbladder, you're not alone. I'm also a PPL on the road to CPL. It's a long road for sure, but look on the bright side, your lack of family commitments mean you will be responsible to no one. My situation is that with a wife and child, I have little or no excess time. Time is the one thing I just can't buy. Hence why I've seen the far side of midnight on more than one occasion studying the books after a 12 hour day at work.

Good luck. You'll get there if you want it bad enough, or so they tell me!:ok:

[anvilman]

Captain Slack Bladder

(Ah, great show that, Blackadder, the heady days of the early nineties. My favourite episode was Corporal Punishment, I think. Ahem, anyway I digress)

You are certainly not alone. I have a PPL(A) from many years ago in the UK, then worked in IT for too many years (and still do). Always harboured a passion for flying and time marched on. Then moved to Aus and started choppers and that was it, hooked. I now have a PPL(H) here in Aus, which has taken two years part time, with 120 hours. I now have all my CPL exams, R44 rating and just around the corner will be taking my CPL(H).

All of which is merely rung number one of a very long ladder.

Then I plan to hour build part time, do any odd scraps of charter anyone throws at me, and work towards instructing. Beyond that, I'm not too worried at this stage although would love to go further.

It is clearly a long and expensive road and a lot of hard work. I have a wife, child and mortgage. And I'm in the wrong half of my 30s.

But my philosophy is to enjoy and learn from each flight one at a time, keep sight of the end goal, but not be obsessed by it to the detriment of the rest of my life. I am still kicking myself I didn't start choppers earlier, but I am not going to bet the farm on it as the risks are too high. I am going to enjoy the fruits of my other career in IT, whilst continuing with my passion for flying and see where it takes me.

If you want it badly enough, it'll come, just take it one step at a time. In my view, happiness is a journey, not a destination.

Good luck with it all!

Cheers,

[shadey]

Slackbladder

I recently completed my PPL(H) Oct 06 and am planning to continue on to do a CPL(H) in Canada. I started in Jan 06. I worked full-time while doing the course.

In my experience it is better to do the training as intensely as you can. In that way you consolidate your learning and therefore take less time overall, as the saying goes the longer you take the longer it takes as you spend time refeshing etc which means you spend more money.

I completed by PPL(H) in 65hours on the R22. I understand that this is average. The costs including all the incidentals like fuel, study materials and B&B overnight near the airfield etc. added up to £20,000. So basically £2000 and month. I flew on average every other weekend and tried to fly 4 hours (2 hours /day) over the weekend. To begin with this is as much as I could handle physically and mentally. (I was not much use on Monday mornings after a weekend flying.) Towards the end it was not problem doing 4 hours on a weekend, I also took a week off to do some of the solo flying and polish off some of the exercises.

I stayed near the arifield as I had a hour half drive each way to get to the airfield as I live in central London.

My recommendation would be to build up enough funds so that you can be sure that you can complete the training in a fairly short time say within a year. There is a fair amount of reading to do and if you have a full-time job and busy home life I think this is about the right balance.

I have subsequently kept current by flying once a month at least and I have got a R44 Rating. My next step is to go to Canada and start a CPL(H) course. I applied for immigration so by the time I complete the course I will be able to start looking for a job. The system is very different to the UK. Let me know if you would like to know more.

Good Luck, I can recommend my instructor, having flown with a couple of other guys who did not impress me.

Cheers

Shadey

[HELOFAN]

I tip my hat to all those that take the work & study route and especially to those that dont give up.

I work part time ( to help with the living costs ) from about 16hrs to 40+ hrs a week.

Its not easy when the course is full time & your trying to juggle classes , flying , study, ground 1 on 1 with instructor, work schedule that is usually regular times ..usually... a little free time to breath somewhat & not let it all build up.

I often think of those that do have a full time job & and manage to get it all done , wife , kids , job, bills, stress etc.

I take my hat off to all of you.
Well Done !!

:D

HF

OH NR Fairy... mind talking more on the over torque story how , when why what etc... sounds interesting and why did it ground you for a year ?

[Pandalet]

Chalk me up to the 'working and flying' route. I completed my PPL at the beginning of this year, having done approx. 1 hour per weekend since the beginning of 2006. I'm lucky to have a decent(ish) job and no kids, but we did live very carefully for most of it!

I'll spend the rest of this year hour building (including a R44 rating and some flying in South Africa), and then take stock of where I am at the beginning of next year. While I have considered non-JAA CPLs, as I'd ultimately like to work North Sea, it seems to make sense to do as much training here as possible. Which is not to say I'll rule out doing the CPL at Bristow Academy or end up emmigrating back to SA in the end!

Good luck!

[Bravo73]

OH NR Fairy... mind talking more on the over torque story how , when why what etc... sounds interesting and why did it ground you for a year ?

IIRC, Nr Fairy discussed the incident in detail in the past and if I was him, I'm not sure that I would want the ashes to be raked through again. :( But a search through his previous posts should provide you with the answer.

Why the grounding? I'm only guessing but this is a very small industry that we work in. A reputation, whether justified or not, can sometimes be very hard to shake.

[HELOFAN]

AH , thanks Bravo, I was thinking it was more like it was due to $$$.

Cheers

HF

[Capt_SlackBladder]

Shadey,

You must be doing alright to have £2000 disposable each month. There's no way I can afford that much. I was thinking of flying no more than 4 hours a month and then taking about 16 months to PPL. Then I'd hour build in the same way but at a slightly reduced cost, possibly saving up and doing some blocks of hour building abroad to save some cash. I know it'll take a long time to get to CPL and then a lot longer to get to an employable level, but it's the only way of doing it without selling my flat and losing the security of my current job. I'm also just doing it as I love flying and if I never get a career from it I can accept that.

Good luck with it all anyway.

[AndyJB32]

I did my taining in 1994/5 in California, so don't know how far things will have changed regarding the conversion of licences (at the time the UK were operating under CAA; JAA licencing not yet having been introduced), and the ease of working out in the states (post 9.11).
I decided to train out in the States largely due to cost, where at the time i reckoned i needed about £25,000 to cover all my flying and living costs out there, until i could start earning money flying. I figured i needed the PPL(H), CPL(H) and Instructor rating and guessed on about 160 flight hours. While i was in the states SFAR73 came into force, meaning i had to stretch my money out to give me 200 hours before i could instruct on the R22. It took roughly 6-7 months, working Monday to friday, to get to this position. At the time, for similar experience in the UK i would have been looking at roughly £40,000 which i couldn't afford.
I got the money by saving and borrowing, having finally fully paid of my loan about 4 years ago. I realise that being able to take a year or so off to live abroad while you complete your training may not be either possible or desireable, but in the long term i think it will save you both time and money due to the continuity, and also the fact that you'll have a lot more time to spare for study. If you are interested, one option may be to see if your work will give you a sabatical for up to a year. This will give you the safety net of a job to return to if the flying side of things doesn't work out the way you plan.
It may be worthwhile contacting Bristow's (no i don't work for them.....) who have bought a flight school in Florida (formerly HAI i think) with the intention of being able to get a JAA licence while flying in the states, with the benefit of lower costs and better weather, so fewer flying days lost due to unsuitable weather. A significant amount of further costs occured when i returned to the UK with 1000 hours or so R22 time, only to find that i had to pay an additional few £1000 and sit 14 written and 3 flight exams just to get the UK CAA licence............not that i'm bitter about that or anything!
Hope that offers a bit of help, and whatever you decide to do, all the very best. I'm certainly very glad that i took the plunge and gave it a go.
Cheers, Andy:)

[Old Skool]

I worked full time while working towards my PPL(H) and CPL(H). It was a long road and i did lose focus and became discouraged sometimes but it was well worth the effort. The hard part was working full time, at a job that i hated while distance learning for the JAA written exams, but i took a big chance, sold my house and now fly full time for a living.

It is not an easy road but if you keep chipping away it's funny how some things turn out.

[Capt_SlackBladder]

Thanks for the advice. Ideally, I'd like to do the training full time. I got my fixed wing PPL in Florida post 9/11 in 2003. It took 3 and a 1/2 weeks including all the ground exams (I didn't have a full-time career back then and had a lot more freedom). Unfortunately I don't think I'll get the time off work to do the same for PPL(H) and CPL(H). I would be able to take the time to do a few weeks hour building in the States once I'd achieved the PPL(H).

I think, for the sake of security, it's going to have to be done part-time until I'm at an employable level. I'm not looking forward to the theory self study though!

[heliduck]

Like many others I worked full time, did all the study by myself at home in between work from PPL(A) right through to CPL(H), IREX & now ATPL(H). A long, hard & extremely rewarding process, & EXTREMELY expensive to get to an employable experience level.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR POST which will determine how difficult you will find it is - "I live alone with no family to support etc and always have a decent amount of disposable income each month".
If you want to fly commercially you will find it easier if you keep it that way until you are comfortably employed. Dependants tend to compete for training dollars no no other resource I know, & they'll always win. Good luck.

[Capt_SlackBladder]

Thanks for all the advice so far. To those who have already started down this route and passed the PPL(H) stage, if you don’t mind saying, what sort of salary were you on which allowed you to complete the training? It’d help me gauge how tightly I’m going to have to live. I don’t want to have no life at all until I can actually become employed as a pilot. Almost none or not much of a life I can live with.

[Whirlygig]

It wasn't so much the salary (although I was on, at the time, about £45k) but the enormous redundancy package I got made through a compromise agreement! However, that was in the Thames Valley with a Thames Valley salary with Thames Valley housing costs. Here in Norfolk one is considerably lower paid but ones housing costs are even lower!

Set yourself a budget cash flow on a spreadsheet in order to work out what you can afford. And stick to it!!

Cheers

Whirls

[Chukkablade]

Slackbladder, not having a go, but with the cost of a PPL(H) being equivalent to a second hand Vectra, it's hardly life changing money to get one is it? So if your biggest concern is the money side of it right now, then back away quickly, because...

Where the cash does get interesting, and where you will feel the bite, is the hour building (if done in the UK) and the frequency of flying to stay pin sharp at it. If I didn't feel confident I could handle any emergency I was taught to overcome in the PPL syllabus, I wouldn't even step inside the machine. For me, if I dont fly once a fortnight then I feel rust creeping in with regards to auto's/stuck pedals/quickstops etc. Hence why I fly weekly, and do at least 20 minutes of that every time I go up. Pretty soon, you start the '44 conversion, and then you'll prefer flying that, and then it gets even more expensive etc etc.

But all that means spending well over £1000 per month of hard earned disposable income, and as has every other poor sod in this country, I have the pre requisite big mortgage thats now part of the Wife and Child life formula, and thats when it can all start to seem expensive. Realise you'll be sacrificing 20k per annum to do it. 20k P.A. before you pay 40% tax on it is a fair old chunk of your top line.

You know your own finances, but if it's an opinion your looking for, unless you have over a £1k per month to throw at it, then don't bother. If you dont do it with cash, and use plastic (the Devil's debt), it'll put you'll be a debt monkey forever and make you frustrated as hell. I watched fixed wing friends do it that way. Not nice. Like watching a car crash in slow motion sometimes actually.

As before though, good luck.