Gordon to Disband MoD??

[round&round]

Rumour has it that Gordon wants to cut UK ministries from 16 to 12 and that the MoD will be amalgamated with the F&CO and elements of the Home Office to form a new security ministry type thingy. Best rumour of all is that it will not contain any serving military and will be exclusivly serpents!! After all, Gordon doesn't let Suffolk's finest pig farmers run DEFRA so why should some Air Chief Marshal with a name that disparages God's own land run the MoD??!! People who actually understand what a ministry should do can be such an encummberance. Once the amalgamation is underway it should make swingeing cuts to the standing military easier to hide whilst allowing plenty of spin along the lines of national security is being enhanced/Britain made safer etc etc.

I guess sales of £5 Asda shirt and tie sets will plummet if Service people are sent back to front line units, so Walmart at least should support my Save our MoD campaign.

[tablet_eraser]

Where did you hear that rumour? Because, and I'm no fan of Broon, it sounds like b:mad:llocks.

[johnny99]

Sounds like it came from the ministry of silly rumours!

[HaveQuick2]

Well, from the way the MoD has "looked after" all branches of the armed forces over at least the last decade, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Their PR departments are a farce, all the forces appear to be rapidly sinking into an abyss, morale is pretty poor, equipment shortages are ignored, and overstretch is taken for granted now.

I say let the MoD disappear, along with all their spineless staff, and try and get some decent support for the services by a department with some clout and influence.

[Talk Wrench]

If I had it my way, I would smash the MOD up into none existence. I would make a new Ministry of the HM Forces. Headed by people who knew what they were talking about. ( unlike me).

[swingy_wingy_thingy]

The guy has spent the last 5 years back stabbing his boss. How can anybody trust him:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[AlJH]

Rumour has it that the MOSR (Ministry of Silly Rumours) is also being disbanded.

[Release-Authorised]

Bring Back the Ministry for War!

[green granite]

why should some Air Chief Marshal with a name that disparages God's own land run the MoD??!

He doesn't, the MOD, like all government compartments, is run by the uncivil serpents for the benefit of the same, The ACM, Admiral, Generals etc. are merely there to take the blame and resign when something goes wrong thereby saving the career of a more important serpent.:hmm:

Ref. Yes Minister.

[Jimlad1]

Actually chaps you need to be clear who actually is in the MOD - if you look, the head office staff are roughly 50% military - and that 50% has a monopoly on all the main positions of power and authority. By all means attack MOD - but understand that its servicepersonnel who are making the calls you hate, not the so-called serpents.

[nigegilb]

I just want to know who writes the letters. Evert time I see one, whether it is from CAS or AOC 2Gp, or Ingram, or a.n. other MoD Spokesperson, they all read the same. A case of politicians one and all? The party line shall be spoken.....

[Jimlad1]

Lines to take developed by local teams - usually military manned. Sent to corporate comms which are headed and heavily manned by military personel plus professional PR types - sent to seniors, usually 2 or 3 in the chain for approval - again signed off by military types. Influence of so called "serpents" in process - roughly zero beyond creating the initial draft.

[tucumseh]

“I just want to know who writes the letters. Evert time I see one, whether it is from CAS or AOC 2Gp, or Ingram, or a.n. other MoD Spokesperson, they all read the same. A case of politicians one and all? The party line shall be spoken.....”


I know for a fact that, in DPA, a very scarce aircraft engineering post (which could be filled by civvy or serviceman) in a certain high profile rotary wing section was advertised when it became vacant. Much to the annoyance of every engineer in Abbey Wood, and delight of sycophants (an increasing majority), the only criteria required of applicants was the ability to write such letters, presumably in the official language called “fob off”.

Prior to this we too wondered where these people came from. But even hardened cynics were astounded of the sheer gall displayed by openly advertising in this way.

[Not_a_boffin]

Jimlad

While your comments may well apply to the various DECs, I doubt it applies to the Resource & Policy types, let alone what used to be known as "the scrutineers". 2nd PUS is also the fella who signs off on all AIUI.

There is a certain disease that captures all who do a spell in MB, which is best expressed as being captured by the system - in other words, forget what you know to be true, do what the system demands. In a way that's how the system should work, but perhaps not to the extremes we see today..

[Jimlad1]

It may well be a disease, but at the end of the day, MB experience is an essential prerequisite to getting to the top. Clearly its seen as essential by the seniors to do.

[Release-Authorised]

When I was a lad and directivcs came cascading in from on high, it was always said that HQ had got into a bit of a "flap". Now perhaps they get into a "spin"?


It used to be all fields around here........

[Not_a_boffin]

Probably true (although a large number of mil 1* seem to end up going straight from their tour to industry). However, none of this changes the essential problem that the mindset in town is always "what do we have to cut to meet the budget" and NEVER in my experience "right, there ain't enough RDEL, CDEL in the STP, EP etc, let's ask for more".

This also leads directly to some long-term assumptions hidden in the background, which then tend to become shibboleths along the lines of "we can't recruit enough people / people cost too much, therefore we must plan on a significantly smaller force in X yrs time". Not once (again in my experience) is the option "pay more + keep retention perks + increase force structure = reduce interval between tours + better retention = less wastage + more efficient use of resource" ever considered.

And don't get me started on equipment related requirementeering.......

[Chugalug2]

If the MOD is to survive, should it survive intact? The disease mentioned above surely strikes a chord, and underlines the self defeating effect of such a monstrous bureaucracy. If the present MOD were offered the Spitfire, Mustang and Lancaster it would surely reject them as not simply being designed to meet the appropriate ORs. Rather than jump to the Lanc, huge sums would be poured into trying to make the RR Vulture engine more reliable for the Manchester. Instead those three war winning machines were designed by people employed by industry, capable of meeting the technological challenge and the military imperatives. We need trained engineers, not scribes, and therein lies the tragedy, for as Churchill was once told, "there are none, Prime Minister".

[nigegilb]

I absolutely don't doubt that a tour in MB is seen as a necessity to get to the top, much more important than, say, operational experience........

[Not_a_boffin]

Nige - in my experience, there are shedloads with plenty of op ex, certainly in dark blue circles. That's not the problem.

What trained engineers there are are busy fighting the availability battle at the other end of the M4, with no budget to speak of, a £10k job requiring at least 1* sign-off, not enough bodies, too much niff-naff and trivia.

Meantime D&ES is formed to "bring a through-life culture to procurement etc" - good luck with that. That fool of a MinDP also decides to merge a bunch of civil, mechanical and electrical engineers with a predominantly aeronautical and electronic engineering outfit, ostensibly as part of some industrial strategy. Top quality meddling that, almost as good as the attempt to recreate British Shipbuilders.....

[tucumseh]

I’m not sure a MB tour is a pre-requisite nowadays. Working in an IPT seems to count as a “HQ” tour. Certainly they have taken to calling themselves “SO1”, SO2” etc, even though most in Abbey Wood actually carry out functions that used to be done by civvies as a pre-requisite to being promoted into procurement in the first place. Typically ILS and Requirements.

Combined with said civvies no longer having to attain these, and other, basic functional competencies – in fact most at ABW now skip the first 5 or so grades and are not required to retrospectively gain a modicum of understanding – is the best indication of the widespread dumbing down we see.