Flight Engineers in short supply [Archive]

haltonapp

20th May 2007, 11:12

I work for EAT/DHL as an A300 FE, the company is taking delivery of its 15th A300B4 freighter in August and is becoming concerned that it is running out of FE's, so if you have a UK CAA licence, perhaps without a type rating, it might be an option for you. The company has a good record in promoting FEs into the right seat if they get a CPL, we have a Line Training Captain who is an ex FE, so it could offer a solution to a younger man prepared to spend money on flying lessons. It is not all beer and skittles, night parcels can be very tiring, especially a four sector night! Eight days on six off, but I'm still working, have passed my 60th birthday now, so the wages augment my measly masters pension! It is Brussels based, but travel to and from UK can be made in company jet. Most of the sectors are in Europe, occasionally to the ME, our C checks are done at GAMCO, nothing across the pond though!

BEagle

20th May 2007, 11:34

Happy Birthday, Pete! You old bugger - didn't realise you were 60!

Elbeflugzeugwerke has had a big cut back in modification orders for the A300 freighter conversion, so it could well be that there a few FEs available from other companies now that the 3-person aircraft orders are less.

haltonapp

20th May 2007, 12:35

Apart from Turkish operators of the B4, EAT has the biggest fleet in Europe, ACL has three aircraft but they may finish soon.

Thanks for the birthday wishes BEags, picked up my bus tokens in Witney the other day, free prescriptions and heating allowance this winter!

Impiger

20th May 2007, 14:33

How difficult is it to become a Flight Engineer? Could a knackered old directional consultant hack it?

Just a thought - not looking for a job.

bwfg3

20th May 2007, 15:00

Pete,

PM for you.

BEagle

20th May 2007, 15:01

(Couldn't get this bloody Firefox junk to cut and paste!)

How difficult, Impiger? Well, here are a few essentials:

1. Speak your mind and don't let pilots do something stupid. You're well qualified there, mate!

2. Speak your mind when some pratt of a senior officer tries to reinvent the wheel you've seen thousands of times before...... But you won't have got to your current lofty status having done much of that!

3. An ability to trap the ugliest old moose imagineable when down route. Neither you nor, indeed, haltonapp meet that requirement. But I know a few who do!

Otherwise take a look at JAR-FCL 4 and it'll tell you all you wish to know - and a lot more besides.....:hmm:

samuraimatt

20th May 2007, 16:56

perhaps we could even have separate brevets.......

How else are you going to get people to become AEop's?

The Gorilla

20th May 2007, 16:59

Yes it's a sad story....

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

bwfg3

22nd May 2007, 18:57

So if the air force is foreseeing a shortage of engineers, and the school is closed, why are the RAF (or more to the point PMA desk wallahs) trying to pee off the better operators on the fleets and make them feel like the air force doesn't care about their careers and lives? Despite all of the bull spouted on CMT 1 and 2 the management is one way only. How about putting an Eng on the Eng manning desk, rather than a guy who knows nothing about the trade? Manning shortage? well deserved due to poor management.
Rant off. :rolleyes:

Throttle Pusher

22nd May 2007, 19:38

It's very tempting, but do you get 4 week holidays in Muscat with all the Afgansitan sight seeing you can manage. As for the abiliy to trap a moose, he who is without sin cast the first stone. A pulse is desirable but not essential.
Pete, look forward to seeing you at the forthcomming 101 do, I assume you'll be there Beags.
Meanwhile back to delivering avtur.
Fly safe TP

BEagle

22nd May 2007, 19:45

"I assume you'll be there Beags."

Does the Pope crap in the woods.....?

The Gorilla

22nd May 2007, 20:10

Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwither on the vine the Air Commode said, I was there when he spoke those magic words in front of a huge NCA audience. Withering on the vine is exactly whats happening. Me? I have nil sympathy, the writing has been on the wall in huge f**k off neon signs for the last eight years or so and I have lost count of the number of Air Engs who have found good quality alternative employment out here. As for peeing the best operators off? It's my opinion that since the time they went to Oz to recruit Air Eng's they have been pursuing a deliberate policy to encourage guys and gals to leave. Expecting of course one or two new aircraft to be well in service by now. It hasn't happened and now the chicks are home to roost!!

Like I said, it's a sad story....
:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

snakepit

22nd May 2007, 20:13

FE's who needs them?!!!!!!!!

Oh yes, all the RAF ME aircraft (not including the C17 as it isn't national property)

I was there when they shut the school with every ME fleet flying more hours than ever and no hope of any ac replacements on the horizon. Also remember several months after the school closed when an AOC from strike said to the CFS air eng rear crew examiner at crandits "these FE's, when do we stop training them?" :ugh:

Now find myself approaching the 22 year point qualified in 3 different aircrew roles but still not on the PA spine, probably not competitive enough.

Just glad things are looking up on the outside.

snakepit

22nd May 2007, 20:19

Gorrilla

Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwither on the vine the Air Commode said, I was there when he spoke those magic words in front of a huge NCA audience.

Was that the same audience that was told "as we don't need you air engs any more we might take away your flying pay" because I was there too.

haltonapp

22nd May 2007, 21:08

I have heard that when the youngest Air Eng retires the RAF AWACS will still be in service. Outstanding planning!

The Gorilla

22nd May 2007, 21:10

He did mutter some crap about that when a few gorilla type Air Engs stood up to him as we do!! (Sorry did) I have a feeling it was a briefing concerning the introduction of rear crew and the associated brevet? Not sure now though as it is all fading into the past a bit!!:confused:

And snakepit, my industry wants more of our type out on its front line!!:)

Truckkie

23rd May 2007, 06:47

Working as a driver on a soon-to-be-retired(tbc), ageing 4 engine Tactical Air Transport aircraft, I have witnessed first-hand the destruction of the Air(Flight)Engineer trade.

As a 1st and 2nd RO I have tried to impress upon my subordinates that there is still a mangaged career path for the young, keen Sgts and FSs - only to be told by PMA that there are 1 or 2 slots per year and those will probably go to lumpy jumpers in non-flying posts or non-med cat holding OCU REMFs who have been nowhere near the frontline in years.

Closing the school and scrapping individual brevets and identities has all but destroyed morale and enthusiasm within this proud trade.

More importantly, at my secret airbase we are shortly going to face a recruitment and retention problem into the more demanding and esoteric roles of the airframe because Air Engineers are leaving or moving onto pastures new.

The whole NCA management and career path is a shambles - but as always you reap what you sow.

bwfg3

23rd May 2007, 08:57

The Gorilla,
PM for you mate.

Mike,
Its normally me getting in the brown stuff for kicking off, but Petes contribution is much apprieciated :}

Door Slider

23rd May 2007, 09:14

At least the air ships have seen sense for ALMs and will be opening the commissioning stream again. However, I've had enough of rotary and would glady re-stream to FE if that was going to be an option.

Ayla

23rd May 2007, 12:16

keepin it in trim

23rd May 2007, 17:16

I always felt that a good flight engineer was worth his weight in gold... and that could be an awful lot of gold!!:)

bwfg3

23rd May 2007, 19:32

Ayla,

Just sent you e-mail.. bet you've all guessed I'm out of airforce soon..:rolleyes:

Throttle Pusher

23rd May 2007, 22:00

I had a severe finger poking sesion with a certain AVM at a BZN dinning in night.
He had no idea as to the effect that the "wither on the vine and die" coment had on serving air engineers.
He appeared genuinly surprised that his words had created so much bad feeling and, after much alcohol induced beratement, appologised for his comments.
I think the vine is still very much alive.

The Gorilla

24th May 2007, 13:19

bwfg3

Check your PM's sorry for the delay.

TG

Dan Winterland

24th May 2007, 15:12

BEagle: You forgot the bit about knowing where to find the cheapest beer!

Happy birthday Pete.

MarkD

24th May 2007, 15:53

I have heard that when the youngest Air Eng retires the RAF AWACS will still be in service.Or will have been sold/scrapped by Broon...

bwfg3

24th May 2007, 16:54

I reckon that before I retire.. May next year.. We should all meet up and have an almight P1$$ up and toast the Air Eng trade.. Somewhere central in the country would be good.. in the Bredbury area of Stockport perhaps :} Just a thought :E

The Gorilla

24th May 2007, 20:00

I am game!! Ahh Bredbury Hall nice mamories!! :}

FE Hoppy

25th May 2007, 07:10

I left 216 as an FE in 2005 after 22 and went into the FlightTraining world. I have to say that after seeing the way the branch was treated over the years and the deteriorating quality of life I have no regrets about leaving. In my new line of work ex RAF Flight Engineers are highly regarded and sort after, very different to how I felt in the Air Force. Anyone leaving with instructional experience needing a job there's plenty available.

And I left 216 as an FE in 98 after 11 years and did the same.

Any ex FEs with instructional experience who fancy working for the 3rd largest manufacturer with a base in the Lion City should pm me pronto. We are also looking for someone based in Zürich.

After 11 in the mob and 5 flying civvy my career really started when I stopped flying 4 years ago.

Biggus

25th May 2007, 08:43

Throttle Pusher

'.....He appeared genuinly surprised that his words had created so much bad feeling and, after much alcohol induced beratement, appologised for his comments......'

Well no doubt the AVM in question (presumably promoted since then) now feels his conscience is clear - but a drunken apology to one guy at a dining in night does not undo the damage his earliers remarks had made!

It also speaks volumes that none of his flunkies around him had told him of the impact his remarks had had!!

By the way TP, I'm not having a go at you - full marks for taking him to task!!