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View Full Version : Does the Red Bull AirRace promote Flying/Aviation? - Apparently NOT!!


skydriller
18th May 2007, 08:22
Title says it all.

There is a Thread running on "the other site" about promoting GA to the wider public, and if the Red Bull Air Race is a good opportunity to do so. Apparently Red Bull are just NOT INTERESTED AT ALL in promoting the activity that promotes their own product.....:ouch:

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=32269&start=90&sid= (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=32269&start=90&sid=a2e5a)
(Third post down)

I think that any good publicity about flying is better than none, but dont understand the Red bull attitude in this respect. I do think that the Aviation organisations (AOPA/PFA? perhaps) should be promoting themselves and our hobby/sport at events like Red Bull AirRace to get the public on our side. Even if it doesnt actually make poeple take up flying, it is portraying Aviation in a positive light.

Regards, SD..

Final 3 Greens
18th May 2007, 08:59
Does the Red Bull AirRace promote Flying/Aviation?

No, it promotes the Red Bull brand.

PPrune promotes aviation, so Skydriller why don't you order a personal title and do your bit ;)

Anyway, Red Bull is illegal in France, isn't it?

BEagle
18th May 2007, 09:08
What on earth is 'Red Bull' anyway? I thought it was some drink used by rave-goers to offset the effects of whatever else they use.

God-daughter's younger brother talks of some yoof-concotion termed 'TVR' - apparently consisting of tequila, vodka and Red Bull?

172driver
18th May 2007, 09:23
Red Bull is a drinks company, period. They not only sponsor the air races (which, unsurprisingly, are of most interest to PPruners), but also all other sort of 'extreme sports', such as speed skiing, guys 'flying' with wings attached, etc, etc. It's part of their branding strategy, which, dare I say, has proved HUGELY successful. Now, one of the owners, a chap called Mateschitz (sp?), apparently IS an aviation buff and had a hangar replete with all sort of exotic / restored flying machines constructed at Salzburg (LOWS) airport. AFAIK, the aviation connection ends there.

rats404
18th May 2007, 09:29
...Amazing how much money one can make selling cans of pop...

http://www.hangar-7.com/

SkyHawk-N
18th May 2007, 11:22
Does anyone really think that fast, noisy, poluting Red Bull aircraft flying a few feet from the ground carrying out non-too safe maneouvres next to thousands of onlookers is good promotion for GA?

gpn01
18th May 2007, 11:50
Absolutely!

FB11
18th May 2007, 11:54
Skyhawk-N

What a strange post from someone who (I assume from your title) flies an aircraft that burns leaded fuel at around 8-10 gallons per hour.

That aside, anything that keeps flying in the spotlight when we face a future of dwindling licence uptake, increasing fuel costs, closing airfields, increased EU limitations... the list goes on.... has got to be a good thing. Even more so when the flying is exciting to watch.

Your dangerous comments are a touch naive. The rules governing any form of aerobatic manoeuvre are in line with current air show regulations; 10 people or 10,000,000 people watching would be just as safe. The courses are designed to be safe for onlookers. Equally the 'non too safe manoeuvres' are flown by pilots who, surprisingly, are very well qualified to fly them and they are very safely flown when compared to someone with, say, a 45 hour PPL. The only 100% safe aviation is to leave aircraft gently gathering dust in a hangar.

If the Red Bull concept gets more punters down to the dwindling numbers of airfields on a Sunday to watch, wonder and maybe even pay for a half hour trial flight (in a Cessna, let alone an Extra) then it gets my vote.

Noisy? Yep. polluting? I guess (compared to a diesel VW Polo.) Dangerous? The highly skilled pilots would agree to an element of risk but know their aircraft and their limits sufficient to mitigate low level aerobatic risk.

Great to watch? You bet. Along with Formula 1, BTCC, Flying Legends, the Paris airshow, WRX..........

A good way possibly give people the flying bug? Absolutely.

SkyHawk-N
18th May 2007, 12:25
FB11
I personally think that dwindling GA is mainly down to costs (hire/purchase, running costs, insurance, fuel, maintenance, increased legislation, etc), lack of airfields due to land prices and NIMBYs, UK WEATHER!, in a lot of cases having to rely on booking club aircraft, the 'it's dangerous' factor, and, probably, time pressures due to work and family. Can you explain how Red Bull can help with these?

Red Bull is great to watch, I'm positive the pilots are 100% competent and it is great promotion for pilots to climb up to aerobatic flying and for people to go and watch aerobatic competitions, but promotion for GA as a whole? I personally don't think so. It's like saying Formula 1 and BTCC is good promotion for people to learn to drive.

Equally the 'non too safe manoeuvres' are flown by pilots who, surprisingly, are very well qualified to fly them and they are very safely flown when compared to someone with, say, a 45 hour PPL.

Noisy? Yep. polluting? I guess (compared to a diesel VW Polo.) Dangerous? The highly skilled pilots would agree to an element of risk but know their aircraft and their limits sufficient to mitigate low level aerobatic risk.

Ok, which is it? You agree or you don't?

If it was 100% safe it would not be considered spectacular and awe inspiring and it would not draw the crowds. Please note I did not use the word 'dangerous', if it was 'dangerous' I'm sure it would not be allowed to take place.

Oh, and it's 6-7 gallons an hour leaned! :ok:

FB11
18th May 2007, 14:31
Do I agree or not? Unsure of your point .

The first stand alone sentence addressed your concern about 'non too safe' manoeuvres by comparing the relative risk of of a low hour pilot flying them as compared to, say, a national unlimited aerobatic champion. Chalk and cheese leaps to mind.

The second stand alone sentence accepts that the only noise free, pollution free, 100% safe aircraft is one in a hangar. Anything else, your skillfully leaned N included, is simply a variation on the environmental lobbie's theme.

And you are right, you didn't use the word dangerous. Just like 'short' people are 'vertically challenged.'

I'm guessing 60 gallons an hour of 130 octane delivered by the thundering sound of the RR Centaurus is next on the chopping block...

Go on, live a little, next time you're up throw the throttle against the dash and do some wingovers. :)

Say again s l o w l y
18th May 2007, 14:44
Aviation became popular at the beginning precisely because it WAS dangerous.
Danger=Glamour=Yoof wanting to have a go=Healthy activity!

This air racing lark is doing all that. I think it's great, even if it isn't as dangerous as people think. More of it please!

BEagle you're not missing anything by not drinking Red Bull, it's vile stuff.

SkyHawk-N
18th May 2007, 16:29
FB11

Where's my answer to the question I asked in my first sentence? How do you think Red Bull promotion will help with the issues which make people not want to fly? Will it make the weather nicer? will it give people more time and money? will it make people think flying is not dangerous? Please, I'd genuinely like to know.

What message will they put over to the public in their promotional material? "get a PPL and do THIS yourself", will they not be a tad disappointed when they end up flying the club spamcan on 1 hour "bimbles", when there is availability and the weather is ok?

You were picking me up on my "non-too safe" comment (again, I did not say dangerous).. here are some quotes from Red Bull Pilots...

Mike Mangold (USA, Cobra):
“I’m happy that it’s over. We’re still working through some problems with everything with our team and hopefully we’ll get there in time to save our season. I’m just happy it’s over. It was a tough day and a dangerous course, as you can see some of the things that happened out there. So you have to be happy you made it through alive and then on the podium."

Kirby Chambliss:
"The one thing about this sport is it is extremely dangerous, and there's not a lot of room for error," Chambliss said. "It's not like a Formula 1 guy who crashes, hits the soft wall, gets out of his car and throws his helmet in anger.
"Ninety percent of the time in this thing you get killed."

Say again s l o w l y, I personally like loud, fast machinary and have owned a fair bit myself (not a fast aircraft though). FB11 thinks I'm a tree hugger, but I'm not, I'd love to go and see Red Bull stuff myself. I just don't see how Red Bull can be used to encourage large quantities of people into GA and help retain the pilots who do get their licences.


BTW FB11, no skill in leaning the N, the computer tells me what to do. :ok:

Say again s l o w l y
18th May 2007, 16:42
I don't think you could draw a direct link, but I don't think it can hurt in anyway.

If you look at advertising, often you'll think "What the hell was that all about?" Whereas the marketing bods are just trying to build brand presence rather than sell you anything specific.

It's a bit spurious, but that's what events like this do, they create a "halo effect" and mean people will think light aircraft are a bit funky, rather than the reality of a bunch of middle aged men searching for the perfect bacon sarnie!
(Well that's what GA looks like from the outside sometimes, or so I'm told by my other half!)

FB11
18th May 2007, 17:38
N

I certainly don't think you're a tree hugger (you are a Cessna driver after all) but to tell me you don't lean the 'real' way? Use a computer? I despair.

But you are right, Red Bull is in no way setting out to promote GA but GA can at least lever off the passion and excitement an extreme sport brings. Extreme meaning few people will have the skill/balls/money to do it.

The reason Mitsubishi and Subaru all create road versions of their WRX cars is because people like the idea that they are driving something that could be hammering around the rocky roads of Wales.

Reno racing versus the Schneider Trophy celebration around the IOW? Any links? Of course. The couple thrashing around at 124kts IAS in their 'souped up' 172 (aka take out back seat and wash aircraft) as compared to September Fury doing 450kts+ has all concerned coming down from their flight happy to have been airborne knowing that few in the country will have taken part in such an event. Happy that they can share the experience with fellow aviators.

If a straight-and-level-never-normally-leave-the-circuit pilot gets even mildly inspired by the hard core Red Bull guys, takes the plunge and pays for a trip in a Firefly or a Chipmunk to turn upside down a few times then good for them. They will be better pilots for it.

Red Bull is not a GA advertising awning but it certainly isn't anti GA, nor can it have a negative effect on anyone even vaguely interested in what happens once you leave the ground.

It's loud, environmentally unfriendly and requires skill and cajones. Brilliant.

If I can't see it in person then wide screen HD please.