if price is not the question - EC 130 B4 vs 407 ?

[Paulsddd]

I am planing to buy a heli - and thinking between EC 130 B4 and 407.
Can you ( as profesionals) coment what are the pluses and minuses of those two ...
the main aspect for me is the safety ...

Thanks
Pauls

[Whirlygig]

And linked to safety would be availability of maintenance.

Cheers

Whirls

[Fun Police]

i'd say it would depend on what you are using it for. anything to do with people and i'd have to say the B4. if you are doing external load work, then the 407 might be a better choice.
as far as maintenance goes, they are both FADEC (is the 407 dual? the B4 is) and parts availability for the 407 will be better than the B4. the B4 has a nice dual hydraulic system with a gear driven pump unlike the B2 which is a serious improvement.
however, if it were up to me i'd go B4 any day but then i am a fan of the eurocopter products.

[Tango and Cash]

From a safety standpoint: the 407 has a single FADEC. If the FADEC decides to take a break, it reverts to manual control with the engine spooling up or down to match the throttle's "Fly" detent (90%). After you catch up to your power demands, you're flying a fancy 206. The EC130 has a dual-channel FADEC, plus a mechanical backup. EC130 has dual hydraulic systems. 407 has single hydraulics. Plus the EC130 has no exposed tailrotor (safety benefit plus makes the EC130 significantly quieter).

From a passenger standpoint, definitely the EC130--no aft facing seats and you're not sitting on the fuel tanks like in 407, which allows use of energy absorbing seats for both pax and crew. And the back seat visibility of the EC130 is far better than the 407.

[TiPwEiGhT]

As some others have mentioned if i am looking for a confortable machine I would fly EC. The 407 is a great proforming machine in my opinion but I have always found Bell product to be uncomfortable.

Can spend the entire day flying the EC's, but my previous employer used the 407 and I couldn't wait for a refuel stop so I could get out! I find the 130 a cleaner, neater machine and it looks the dogs aswell!

That's my 2 cents.

TiP:ok:

[rotorboy]

I agree with much that has been said. The EC , has the comfort, visibility and ease of getting in and out of.

That said, if I had to operate one, I would look real carefully at the DOC and the availability of parts from EC and turbomecca ( esp turbomecca) ( not that it isnt getting harder to get stuff from bell either).

I Areil engines are at a premimum these days

[Paulsddd]

....hmm
thanks for advices !

looks like only problem with them is geting a spare parts in time from EC.
.. but is it possible (if I buy a new one directly from EC) to make a contract with huge penalties - in case they dont bring spare parts in exact time?

Pauls

[chuckolamofola]

looks like only problem with them is geting a spare parts in time from EC.
.. but is it possible (if I buy a new one directly from EC) to make a contract with huge penalties - in case they dont bring spare parts in exact time?

I doubt either Bell or ECF would sign such a contract, especially since production is sold out for both models months in advance.

Before you buy, get a demo flight in both models. I think you'll also find that the 407 is faster than the 130 too. It's hard to beat a Bell, support is still much better for both RR/Allison than ECF/Turbomeca.

Another option you may want to exercise is Power by the Hour, that will lessen your downtime as the OEM will generally have to give you a rental engine or component if they can't supply a fix to yours in a reasonable amount of time.

Regards,

Chuck

[docstone]

Feels like comparing apples with pears - different aircraft for different jobs. 407 (own and operate) is fast, smooth, solid, great for passangers if they like to be seperated by the broom cupboard - nice to be a passenger, nice to be a pilot.

130 is quiet and a great sight seeing platform, but far less good for VIP transport.

Then there's the lifting power - no contest, 407 wins by a country mile. Add in the Bell support and its a no brainer IMHO

[nigelh]

I would stay away from turbomeca at all costs...they are great when they work but can and do go wrong which is a) very expensive and b) they never have any spare modules etc at the factory so you either have to wait aog for months or accept some old dog of an engine with 1,000,s hrs post o/haul .....407 does have the feel of an old Long Ranger but has bags of power and is fast and i would guess a lot cheaper to run ....and more reliable.

[minimo]

If you give a quick look to engines operating in hot and high conditions, you have to admit Arriel engines are by far the best...(in the light single engine class).This mean they are very reliable even if Turbomeca support could sometimes be deficient but I think this issue can be "bypassed" is you choose to get a contract with an approved Eurocopter/Turbomeca service station. I know couple of private who did this choice and they are very pleased of it. You just should ask for the right maintenance facility. PM if you want more details.:ok: