A bit of advice please. If one has a UK IMC rating and then goes to the states to get an american IR are the 40 FAA hours still required ?
Thanks in advance
DEED

Yes, you will need to do the full FAA IR course including exam and IR skills test.

Obviously you need an FAA license to stick your FAA IR on.

No

You need to read 14 CFR 61.65(d)


(d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have logged the following:
(1) At least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot in command, of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes for an instrument—airplane rating; and
(2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation of this section, to include—
(i) At least 15 hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in the aircraft category for which the instrument rating is sought;
(ii) At least 3 hours of instrument training that is appropriate to the instrument rating sought from an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the 60 days preceding the date of the test;
(iii) For an instrument—airplane rating, instrument training on cross- country flight procedures specific to airplanes that includes at least one cross-country flight in an airplane that is performed under IFR, and consists of—
(A) A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along airways or ATC-directed routing;
(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and
(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems;

Provided you have sufficient IMC time gained in the UK you come under the 15 hour portion (but bear in mind that's the minimum).

What I would advise however is you check your cross country time - under the FAA regs a cross country is a landaway of more than 50 nm from point of departure.

Chilli Monster is correct. You may need to show that your 15 hours were done with an Instructor i.e. each entry may need to have been signed and to include details of the training flight. That is common in the US. Of course you will need to have a FAA certificate before you can add the IR. You do not say if you already have a FAA PPL cert - so that is a hoop to go through first. You will need to complete the IR written and the PTS (ground and flight) with the FAA Examiner. The PTS can be found here: http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/media/FAA-S-8081-4D.pdf

You would of course, require TSA clearance and a Visa etc for the Fight Training.

Remember that you can only exercise the privileges of the FAA IR in an N reg aircraft.

But wouldn't that have to be an FAA instructor ? Unlikely when doing an IMCR in the UK....

Not necessarily, unlike the CAA, the FAA will accept instruction time given by a 'foreign' instructor and allow it to count towards the FAA cert/rating.

However, as I said, the log book entries should ideally be signed by the Instructor who gave that training with a signature and his license number.
Otherwise, there is no guarantee that the US instructor is going to simply 'accept' what is written or indeed the Examiner when he reviews the 8710.

are you sure about this ? runs counter to my info, but I'm not a specialist on the intricacies of instructing....

Yes.

For the same reason that the FAA accept all hours previously obtained during training for a UK/JAR PPL. The FAA will issue a FAA 'based on' certificate without any further training etc.

Likewise, a UK PPL, wishing to get an unrestricted FAA PPL - simply has to review FAR 61.109 to ensure that all the FAA required Aeronautical Experience has been completed. Then take the written and PTS.
Clearly any differences training might be required but you do not have to start from 0 hours.

Here you go 172driver, there is a FAR (61.41) which specifically allows foreign instruction to count towards FAA ratings.

http://tinyurl.com/2fybjc

Flying isn't done the same way in the States :)

Hmmmm - very interesting. I hold both FAA and CAA standalone tickets and this question has come up in the past (e.g. in connection with a BFR) and the answer has always been 'no'. Have you got a link to the relevant Part in the FAR/AIM ?

slim_slag you beat me to it..... and yes, I know, flying isn't the same over here :{ :{ as in the US :ok: :ok:

Re BFR, I dDon't think it applies to BFR, just training for ratings/certificates which is a different thing. You need an FAA CFI to give a BFR endorsement.

Yeh, I miss the flying in the States. Is it enough to move back???? Tough question...

A BFR has to be done with a FAA Instructor as it has to be completed according to the FAR/AIM requirements. A UK Instructor cannot conduct a FAA BFR (unless he also holds a FAA ticket)..
It is only flight time accrued that can count towards ratings etc.
The actual test (PTS) and written have to be done and overseen by the authorised FAA Instructor and Examiner.

If hours were NOT permitted to be included, then the FAA would not be able to "give away" FAA based upon certificates etc.

I had a UK PPL and got an unrestricted FAA cert. It was only necessary to present the log book showing hours accrued - emphasizing those that were required by FAR 61.109 for ease of reference. Then take the Written and the PTS. Any time or checks required to keep the FAA cert current (BFR) and the UK/JAR current (time with the instructor every second year etc) must be done with the Instructor appropriate to that license/cert.


For the FAA IR - 61.65(d) Simply states that the hours must have been logged.
The maximum that the student might have to complete is 15 hours of training and the 3 hours in 60 days rule etc if he holds a UK IMC.

SoCal is right.

I did the FAA/IR about 6 months after 9/11 before all the new rules were put in place. They looked at my logbook at the point I did the CAA/IMC training and accepted the IMC hours as they'd been signed off by the instructor.
.
I still had to do a (fairly lengthy) cross country but as it happened it was more or less all in IMC (unusual for Florida), so was excellent practice.
If you do decide on the FAA/IR route, try and get some training here (self -study used to be accepted) and try and do the written here to get it out of the way.

When you get your 'Pass' cert there will be numerical codes on it which correspond to those bits of the written exam you did not do well on: these then can be given prominence in the oral part of the exam which usually happens just before the flight test.. It pays therefore to find out about these codes as if you fail the oral, your flight test ain't gonna happen.............
Like I said above, all this was 4 + years ago so there are probably sh*t loads of extra regs now.

Safe flying

Cusco;) ;)
NB advice given here may be worth no more than you paid for it.

Indeed, the 250nm x/c flight is most unlikely to have been done by an IMCR holder, because it is to be done "under ATC direction" (I haven't got far/aim handy but recall those words) and this isn't really meaningfully possible in the UK, without going into Class A, because there is nothing one could call a "service" OCAS, and one cannot fly 250nm wholly within Class D (which would be the only other way to get a service).

And most IMCR training studiously avoids Class A, partly because most UK instructors don't have a [valid] IR, and partly because of the seemingly widespread belief (which may be true - does anyone have a reference?) that training within UK Class A must be done within an FTO approved by the UK CAA for IR training.

The simplest way, in both a G-reg and an N-reg, to knock off this 250nm flight, is to go up with an IR instructor on a long airways flight somewhere abroad.

I eventually did mine in the USA, with the rest of the IR.

I would strongly advise anybody doing the IR (and going to the hassle of TSA+visa) to get themselves a standalone FAA PPL while at it. It will take just a few more days.

One must read the far/aim and work out all the logbook requirements for the IR. There is some night flight too, which a JAA PPL holder with the NQ will probably not have. This kind of stuff is easily done in a G-reg though, with any JAA instructor.

IO


Indeed, the 250nm x/c flight is most unlikely to have been done by an IMCR holder, because it is to be done "under ATC direction" (I haven't got far/aim handy but recall those words)
FAR 61.65(d) A distance of at least 250nm along airways or ATC-directed routing.


I would strongly advise anybody doing the IR (and going to the hassle of TSA+visa) to get themselves a standalone FAA PPL while at it. It will take just a few more days.

I would agree - maintaining the "based on" cert can be a pain.


One must read the far/aim and work out all the logbook requirements for the IR. There is some night flight too, which a JAA PPL holder with the NQ will probably not have.

This is true. A thorough review for a PPL going in for an IR would be to review FAR 61.109 Aeronautical experience to make sure all the PPL stuff is handled. There may be things in here not done for a UK license.

Then review 61.65(d) for the IR Aeronautical experience.

Otherwise, if you turn up with the 8710 and it does not meet the requirements, the Examiner will simply show you the door...

Of course, this all assumes that the prospective FAA IR candidate actually has access to a FAA IFR certified N reg aircraft on return to the UK. !!!!

You would need to do the 15 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and total flight time of simulated or actual of 40 hours.


Authorized instructor means— ii) A person who holds a current flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 (http://www8.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=12345&FAR/part_61/toc.html) of this chapter when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate.

The 250 NM X country would have to be completed by the FAA instructor as it falls within the 15 hours of flight training.

For an instrument—airplane rating, instrument training on cross- country flight procedures specific to airplanes that includes at least one cross-country flight in an airplane that is performed under IFR, and consists of—
(A) A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along airways or ATC-directed routing;
(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and
(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems;

Hope this clears up the questions. Alternatively you could get an IMC added to you JAA PPL if you hold an FAA IR, without the need for any additional tests.

N-01
which is why I wrote the following further up in this thread - note the "might'...

For the FAA IR - 61.65(d) Simply states that the hours must have been logged.
The maximum that the student might have to complete is 15 hours of training and the 3 hours in 60 days rule etc if he holds a UK IMC.
It is a known fact that people have been able to get their log book reviewed and hours signed off regardless of the definition as laid down in 61.1(b)(2).

I agree that the definition of an authorized instructor is very clear - but the fact remains that some people do get through without it - hence why I specified 'might' in my earlier reply.

For example, some people with a UK license have been able to get an unrestricted FAA cert by reviewing 61.109, taking the Written and the PTS - regardless of the reference in 61.109(a) for the need to do 20 hours of flight instruction with an "authorized Instructor'.

Secondly, some people get a FAA cert based upon a foreign ICAO license. They can then fly unrestricted in the US as PIC - probably having done no more than 2-3 hours as part of the initial BFR with an instructor.

According to the letter of the ruling, if that individual then wanted to remove the 'based on' restriction, in addition to taking the written and the PTS, he would have to accumulate the 20 hours of flight training with an 'authorized instructor' according to 61.109(a).

Fully agree with the need to do the written and PTS but 20 hours of flight training when the individual already has the FAA cert... is somewhat odd and clearly many people with an ICAO license and hours accumulated do not do those additional 20 hours.

Can any of you guys remind me of the requirements to keep a FAA/IR valid? Especially re-validation following a lapse in flying?

Thanks in advance and apologies for being too lazy to search the regs. - but that's the magic of pprune! :ok:

Alternatively you could get an IMC added to you JAA PPL if you hold an FAA IR, without the need for any additional tests.

I have heard (this is not first hand info) that the CAA don't issue the IMCR unless you have done an IPC within the last 2 years.

Just having a valid FAA IR (valid by having done the 6 approaches in the last 6 months) is not enough, it appears.

SoCal - re that "authorised instructor" thing; this has been done to death on every pilot forum, and been looked at by people much more clever than me, and I recall that any instructor authorised to do the training is OK. One has to read the whole of the regs, not just one bit. Outside the USA, this covers authorised instructors in the relevant country. The FARs don't state he has to be an FAA CFI/CFII, IIRC.

I have never heard of UK based training logbook entries being refused for the FAA IR. Well, except by certain now-defunct UK based FAA training outfits who wanted to maximise revenue, but that area has in the past been a bit of a cowboy scene anyway.

You still have to pass the oral and the checkride :)

Just to come back to a point made by cusco; does anyone know where I could access these codes relating to missed questions on the written test? I recently sat the written and all my missers have a J identifier.

61.41 is the paragraph that allows for overseas training to be counted.

§ 61.41 Flight training received from flight instructors not certificated by the FAA.
(a) A person may credit flight training toward the requirements of a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part, if that person received the training from:

...

(2) A flight instructor who is authorized to give such training by the licensing authority of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, and the flight training is given outside the United States.

(b) A flight instructor described in paragraph (a) of this section is only authorized to give endorsements to show training given.

I have heard (this is not first hand info) that the CAA don't issue the IMCR unless you have done an IPC within the last 2 years.
Just having a valid FAA IR (valid by having done the 6 approaches in the last 6 months) is not enough, it appears.

I think that's correct - LASORS E3.4:

An applicant who holds an ICAO IR or military
green Instrument Rating (Aeroplanes) and have
passed an IR test in the 24 months preceding the
date of application for the IMC Rating will be
exempt from taking the initial IMC Flight Test and
written examination. Applicants will be required
to apply for the issue of the IMC rating within this
period, and the IMC granted will be based from
the date the last IR test was passed.

Regarding the 'fail' codes on the FAA/IR Lasergrade exam certificate the following link gives information on how to access these.
http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_guides/media/faa-g-8082-13a.pdf
I think we got the codes from our FAA/IR instructor at the flying school in plenty of time to brush up the gaping holes in our knowledge. (like where t.f is Atlanta on the weather map in question30)
Safe flying
Cusco

clicking the above link seems to work despite the dots

Just to come back to a point made by cusco; does anyone know where I could access these codes relating to missed questions on the written test? I recently sat the written and all my missers have a J identifier.

If you've got the ASA test prep bool look in the back - the decode is there. "J" codes refer to AIM based questions which you failed - the individual codes are then cross checked with the question subject and relevant part of the AIM

Can any of you guys remind me of the requirements to keep a FAA/IR valid? Especially re-validation following a lapse in flying?

6 approaches in the preceeding 6 months, en-route tracking, en-route (offset) and fixed point (VOR/NDB/RNAV point) in the same period. If you don't manage that you have 6 months to do them with a safety pilot. If you don't manage it within a year then it's an IPC with a CFII.

I have heard (this is not first hand info) that the CAA don't issue the IMCR unless you have done an IPC within the last 2 years.

Just having a valid FAA IR (valid by having done the 6 approaches in the last 6 months) is not enough, it appears.


You need EITHER the initial flight test or an IPC. The CAA will issue an IMCR at any time but its expiry date will be based on the date of the initial FAA IR flight test or the last IPC. So if you do the IR flight test on the 1st Jan but don't apply to the CAA for the IMC until 1st Dec you'd get an IMCR which is 11 months shorter than it otherwise would have been.

DOH!
Chilli's dead right.
Just looked in the back of my asa Test Prep book and the codes are all there!
Safe flying
Cusco:ugh:

Thanks Chilli,

:ok: :ok: :ok:

Cusco & Chilli,
Thanks very much guys. I'll track down the ASA material but already the link provided by Cusco has given me food for thought. Thanks again, guys.