Cancelling Internet after 7 months - possible?

[Gingerbread Man]

Hello all,

I am coming up to the end of my time at university and will get to leave this shared house behind at the end of June. I signed up for the internet from BT in December, after trying to get it from a different supplier in October, and them pissing me about for weeks before I told them to get stuffed and went to BT. When I enquired over the phone, I was told the account could be cancelled after a minimum term of three months, which sounded perfect. I believe I enquired as to why the website stated a minimum term of twelve months, and was assured I could cancel before that time.
After phoning BT, I have now learned that the 3 month rule only applies to the phone account, and not broadband. Therefore unless I transfer the account to a different property, I have to pay the remaining months to cancel the contract.

Is there any way of getting out of this? If the service hadn't been atrocious I wouldn't want to get out of it quite so badly, but they have tried to charge me for connection fees twice, even though the connection already existed. This stems from them sending an engineer out to mend a fault just two days after connection, which they seem to be confusing with the connection itself. Even though I have explained this I am regularly told that I have outstanding fees every 3 months. That and the fact that none of the numbers on their bills add up to the final amount that is apparently outstanding.

I was just wondering if I bleat enough about how rubbish they are if they'll cut me loose...

Cheers

Ginger ;)

[DaveO'Leary]

Hi
Are you paying this via a cc?

[Gingerbread Man]

I have to admit to not knowing what a cc is. It is paid for by direct debit, if that helps.

[amanoffewwords]

cc = credit card, welcome to the real world :ok:

ps. you should have read the TOS before signing up - the answer is probably in there

[DaveO'Leary]

Ginger....Contact your bank and cancel the dd=direct debit. Prob solved.

Dave

[IO540]

In this case, stopping the payments should do it, but....

The contract which every ISP has with the owner of the phone line (which is normally BT) contains a protection clause which enables the ISP to block BT from allowing another ISP to be on the same physical line.

So if you have eg. a 12 month contract and want to back out after 9 months, you will not be able to get another ISP on that line until you have paid for another 3 months, or settled out with the original ISP by paying a 3 month block. ISPs tend to be quite aggressive on this because they don't want somebody to stop paying and then get service from another ISP.

I had some hassle with Clara once who cut me off for alleged copyright infringement (they refused to provide me with evidence, citing the data protection act :yuk: ) and they blocked the line until I paid them off for the balance of the year. Clara confirmed they would cut you off purely upon receipt of an automated email complaint....

I got around it by getting BT to renumber the line. It was an analog line purely for ADSL so its number was not anything important. Renumbering cuts off the ISP and you can then (usually) get another ISP to provide a service. In fact it was BT who suggested this ;) They said the only other time they can get an ISP to vacate a line (against the ISP's wishes) is if the ISP has gone bust.

A neater way is to have two analog lines (probably quite a common thing, now that BT have dropped Home Highway) and you can get a new ADSL service on the other one, regardless of a dispute with an ISP on the first one.

In a business context, I would recommend every business (using ADSL) to have at least two analog lines. Yesterday, we got hit by a spammer who sent us about 20k emails, resulting in loads of bounced emails being transmitted by our email server, and we got all our outgoing ports disconnected by the ISP - without any warning. It took a day to sort it out. A lesson learnt. I don't think ZEN would have done this but I am already with ZEN at home and that's where our backup server is, and one can't have the same ISP for both locations...

[slim_slag]

It's changed recently, and I think the 'losing' ISP now has to provide a MAC on demand even prior to the end of any contract. This doesn't get you out of your contractual obligations to the losing ISP but lets you get another provider connected up. The only problem here is that some providers will not accept all MACs, but if the losing provider is BT that problem shouldn't arise.

[planecrazy.eu]

Well as said before, the truth is in the TOS (Terms of Service) for the ISP.

If you are on a 12, or even i have seen an 18 month contract, then you are "tied in". There is no escaping paying the service, as if you dont pay, they will see you in court, and with small claims court been so cheap and clear cut in a fair ammount of cases, they are doing this alot.

Companies do have to give MAC addresses out, they have to release you, but only if the contract is expired.

Its just the same with mobiles, if you stop the direct debit, the payments you owe will mount up, and eventually the collectors come in to play.

If you take our a Contract, its legally binding, BT or no one esle can do nothing unless the company who you took the contract out with is going to do nothing, or they let you go.

You can find way the isp has violated there agreement with you, this rendering the contract void.

In the case of "Clara" was it above, it would be feasable that if they did take the guy to court, there was no evidence, and they woudl loose, so it wouldnt have been in there interest.

Chaning lines could solve the problem of getting connected again, but remember, you still put you name to a contract, and in the UK and every other place i can think of, a contract is legally binding, and you are legally bound to fulfill that contract if the contract terms are maintained.

ISP's have an SLA too, thats a service level agreements, so if they are not providing you with the service they said, this could be grounds to render the contract void. Rather than turn you back, it be better to get them to cancel to agreement

[slim_slag]

No. The losing ISP has to provide you with a MAC within 5 days, they can no longer refuse for contractual reasons. This all changed in February. I suppose they can then pursue you for any balance they believe is due, but I don't know what the exact figure would be for it to be legal. For example, they are no longer paying BT for your local service rental, so they might not be able to recover that as it's not a loss.

[Gingerbread Man]

Hmmm. Thanks for the replies everyone. It had occured to me that I could 'sell' the service to the next tenants until it finishes, but they would then be in the same position that I am when they start a new contract. Otherwise they won't be able to get a line put in anyway it seems. How annoying that the internet world seems to assume that people live their lives in neat, 12 month blocks.

Ginger ;)

[slim_slag]

If you wanted to 'sell on' the broadband then you would also need to keep the BT line in your name and be responsible for the bills. If you cancel your phone service, the broadband gets cancelled too.

If you are on BT equipment at the exchange there is a setup cost payable to BT, that is why they like to lock you in, they have to recoup that one off cost. There are broadband providers who do month-month but you get hit a setup fee for that, I think. Apparently the setting up of broadband in the exchange requires a couple of men to go in with a tool kit to make a physical connection, it's not automatic in the existing generation hardware in most exchanges.

[planecrazy.eu]

Well thats right, they "have" to provide you with the MAC address, they "have" to let you go too, but then "dont have" to stop charging you as the contract is in place.

Just because they are not paying BT for the line once the MAC address has been leased, doesnt mean they dont have costs. In the first place, most isps make a loss, they have fees to pay to initiate the line, equipement costs, etc, and they "do" take people to court if they are going to make a "loss" If the case was 7 months, then it could be feasable that they have broke even, but contractually, the contract is binding and can be enforced, it wout be the isps choice.

BT are introducing charges soon to people who cancel there broadband and dont transfer to another ISP within the BT exchange. These fess come into force around July, they have been delayed as ofcom dont "agree" with them, well more the costs, this was due to be forced May 1st but its been prosponed.

You could well sell on the broadband and phone to the next customer, you would need to talk to BT on this one about transfering the agreement, or you could just have an agreement that the new tenants pay you.

I have always made sure that the landlord has the internet and phone in his name, this way, after my 9 months is up, i am not tied into paying him as its his responsibilty, its worked for me...

[slim_slag]

It's not a MAC address......

The contract is no longer in place, you have materially breached it by refusing to pay for service for the whole 12 months. That means they are due damages. What those damages will be is very unlikely to be the same amount of money they would have got out of you had you continued to be a customer, though I sure they would settle for that. I don't know what the true figure would be you would need to talk to a lawyer/accountant/telecoms expert.

[SyllogismCheck]

Many ISPs have a condition which allows you out of the contract if you move to a property to which they are unable to provide service. This includes instances in which another ISP is already providing service, thus preventing your original ISP doing so.

To allow you out on this clause, they'll require a proof of your residence at the new address and a copy of a bill from the ISP providing service at that address. Simple as that. :ok:

[IO540]

I have no problem with paying off one's contractual obligation, but this is a different thing from getting summarily cut off (on the basis of some unverified machine-generated email) and then having to wait for days or longer to get it sorted. ISPs are in no hurry to deal with these things fast; they like to "teach people a lesson".

If the ISP is now forced to give up the line more or less immediately, that's good news, but I bet they will still take a few days at a minimum, to teach people a lesson.

Two lines is the best answer for anything half critical.