View Full Version : BA list increases
25th May 2001, 14:13
Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but it was news to me. The BA seniority list is about to expand even further, with a load of guys and girls (c400) joining at the bottom from two airlines beginning with 'B'! I guess it will be on similar terms to Cityflyer.
25th May 2001, 16:04
Is this good info ?
Would obviously be of relevance to us at CityFlyer - our integration is still under ballot (is that good English ?) at present...
25th May 2001, 18:36
I thought Cityflyer were on the BA seniority list as of early April?
Is this not agreed?
Is there a possability of it not happening?
Is there a date yet for Brymon/BRAL going on the list?
All very relevant to my BA application as being a further 600 places (between the three airlines) down the seniority list in such a short time makes the whole thing a waste of time.
Why am I jumping through hoops for BA when many others get a 'carte blanche'?
25th May 2001, 19:08
where did you hear this?
25th May 2001, 19:12
Anyone know exactly what is going on here. Much like everyone else I thought CityFlyer chaps and chapess's were already on the BA seniority list as of April.
Where did you get your info from?
25th May 2001, 20:10
We have been told
(off the record, and unattributably)
[Brymon and BRAL]
will be joining the British Airways Master Seniority List from 16th June 2001.
It is still not clear to me whether this will involve Brymon pilots first, then the BRAL presence, or whether the two lists will be date merged on original D.O.J. of the respective Company prior to being added to the Master List.
Anyone got any update on that?
Nobody ever lost money by overestimating the amount of idiots there are in the world.
25th May 2001, 20:16
BALPA and BA, with the CFE Company Council, bashed out an agreement concerning the terms of the integration. This was put to CFE BALPA members over a series of three meetings to allow everyone to attend. Voting papers were sent out and must be returned by June 1st.
If the vote is a yes then all CFE pilots of suitable age etc. will be offered a BA contract with April seniority. There are also EOG contracts and ATR contracts for certain people. I guess the full details will appear here if we agree to them. Personally, I voted no, but suspect I'm in the minority...
25th May 2001, 20:42
1. A chap is undergoing selection for BA at the moment, knowing that if he passes, he will get a Heathrow Short-Haul slot.
2. He fails, but gains employment with CityFlyer / Brymon / BRAL.
3. Has he had to complete the full BA selection to gain his new BA seniority?
4. Can he simply move fleets 5 years later to B747 or B777 as though he were a Mainline A320 man?
5. How much money will he lose by flying for CityFlyer / Brymon / BRAL rather than on the BA A320 fleet?
I am a confused puppy!
25th May 2001, 20:50
Sorry to dampen a great rumour , but I'm very certain that BRAL/Brymon=BACE=totally seperate from BA and will not appear on the common seniority list
25th May 2001, 20:52
This scenario is of historical interest because all recruitment at CFE has now ceased. Those who were quick enough to get in will benefit as you describe. But please don't think we ever had slack standards. I've passed both processes (never got pulled out of the Hold Pool) and would suggest that CFE is looking for pretty much the same abilities, but we have done it via a purely human system. We've occasionally had BA people not make it through our system, and vice versa is obviously true. I guess the test will come as CFE people move onto other fleets - were there any significant problems from other people who entered the company this way in the past ?
25th May 2001, 21:16
In my humble opinion there is absolutely no way Brymon & BRAL wil get onto the BA seniority list. The whole reason that BA bought these companies is so that they can have their regional network without the wage costs etc. of the BA mainline structure, integration of the lists would go against everything BA has strived for. And yes there is the question of recruitment, BA are too politically correct to allow people in through the back door. As for CFE I don't know they may have a different agreement.
25th May 2001, 21:46
Are we just guessing, or is this fact. Will BA merge their Master Seniority with what ever company they buy alonf the way?
I have been invited to a interview, but if this is true I just stay home.
Does anybody have fact...even on a rumour network :)
26th May 2001, 00:08
Fruitbat...I don't know where you get your info. but I can't see Brymon?Bral getting on to the BA seniority list!
26th May 2001, 03:52
'everybody' is correct. We (CFE) have been balloted to see whether we wish to accept the terms and conditions that are on offer. The cutoff date for the ballot forms to be received is 31st May or June 1st. If, as I suspect it will, it is a landslide YES, then we will be granted seniority as from the 3rd April. They have reserved 200 places for us on the master seniority list and we shall slot in to those in our own DOJ order.
We should have been granted seniority from 8th Jan but some whingeing DEP's and CEP's threw their toys out of the pram and complained so it was put back to April 3rd.
BA will never allow any company that it buys to 'merge' seniority lists again BCal style, so don't worry about that.
'Carte Blanche??????' Wet Power???? Don't apply then. Suits me. Personally I don't have to play with leggo to prove that I can fly a plane safely and on time. I've been flying commercial jets for 4 years and am now in command of one. We didn't chose BA; they chose us. There's a big difference.
Now get to the back of the list.
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam up my clothes!
Capt Pit Bull
26th May 2001, 11:27
I wouldn't worry, Wet Power. Yes, there may be more people on the list but we are bringing our own aircraft, slots and jobs with us, so there is no dilution of the job prospects for you at BA.
Au contraire, the RJ will probably end up being the type BA would prefer their CEPs to start off on, (and I very much doubt they will send any DEPs onto it), so (I presume you are a DEP) you will have less competition for the 'bigger / shinier / long haul' jobs.
Capt Pit Bull
26th May 2001, 12:41
I sure hope we (British Airways CitiExpress) are not to be appended to the BA list. We are a separate company with a very unique characteristic compared with mainline BA. We (I refer to both BACE constituent parts) make a healthy profit on turnover. We want and need our own seniority list and identity.
In the future when we take over mainline, we will append all mainline BA pilots to the bottom of our list.
Furthermore we will rename BALPA as CELPA, and our union will provide only the most minimal service to BA mainline pilots, using them only to raise money. CELPA will have as part of it's new constitution a guaranteed majority of CitiExpress pilot representatives, and they will at all times put OUR interests at the top of any negotiating agenda.
A new era will be born. All pilots will have PA's. Mine will be called Rod (Roddy when I'm feeling petulant) and assist me in flight planning by fetching my weather etc.
When he's very good, I will offer him stock options at a really inflated price which I will later offer to pay back at half the value.
The future's is definitely bright.....Roddy fetch my shades!!
26th May 2001, 16:26
I like your style mate, my PA will be called Rob, and Robby when I'm feeling in a good mood!
To err is human, To forgive is not company policy !
26th May 2001, 16:47
I've got the list in front of me and my fleet goes from number 326_ to 349_ which is 234 places. DO Cityflyer have 234 pilots? I would imagine so.
I am also under the understanding that City flyer have stopped recruiting.
[This message has been edited by Suggs (edited 26 May 2001).]
27th May 2001, 03:25
Secret Squirrel my friend,
You stated, <We should have been granted seniority from 8th Jan but some whingeing DEP's and CEP's threw their toys out of the pram and complained so it was put back to April 3rd.>
I've been away for a while (emprisoned in 'Branecrank') so havn't been able to keep up with all the 'latest'.
It was explained to me however that the 8th Jan was going to be a deal until some of the CF chaps/chapesses said no.
I can't see how any of our DEP's/CEP's could have had a say in the issue as a)99.9% of 'em were employed before said date, and b)BALPA would have ignored the very few who weren't. [I'm working on the principle here that BALPA ignore the minorities, if you get my gist]
So is it just possible that the CF council said 'no' to the deal on offer and eventually agreed thereby losing a few month's seniority. If so I'm really sorry.
I removed that thread on CF because I felt that certain contributers (i.e. Harry Wragg) were going to spoil the CF Pilots from getting a good deal.
I wish the whole lot of you all the best and look forward to flying with you in the future.
27th May 2001, 12:14
Well said "Exeng" and for the benefit of all our new colleagues just think on this;-
Over the next 4 to 5 years over 600 BA Captains will retire. As an example there are 11 retirements off the 747-400 in July alone. This trend then continues into the foreseeable future with never less than 100 retirements per year ( me included!!)
If you join the BA list at the end and have at least 10 years service left then a mainline command will eventually come your way.......
27th May 2001, 15:17
Dear oh dear more ageing junior trash to add to the moaning fraternity. look forward to it
27th May 2001, 15:59
Secret Squirrel, I really hate this, but I told you so..... Now is the time I think you said you would find alternative employment. No way would you work for Big Airways. How are the interviews coming along?
28th May 2001, 16:26
I bow to your four years of flying commercial jets.
BA 'chose' Cityflyer! This is the same national airline that 'chose' multi-coloured tails.
A degree of decorum restrains me from any other comment.
[This message has been edited by Wet Power (edited 28 May 2001).]
28th May 2001, 17:54
......and so it came to pass that the poor huddled masses were accepted upon the shores of the brave new world. Much to the chagrin of those who entered via Ellis Island a small and unclean minority jumped over a rather small fence down Mexico way.
Oh the consternation!
The list just keeps getting bigger and bigger, as do some ego's......
Try delete this opinion EX old boy. You should be in management. I think you'll find that it was actually BALPA, the BACC, and the BA management that came up with the deal.
I thought BA was so great that anybody would be happy being anywhere on the master seniority list......
Mines a 400 command please, ta very much.
Happy Harry, BA's favourite pilot.
28th May 2001, 22:14
Normal Nigel, I would like to see your licence. (if indeed you have one). I have seen a great number of your "postings". At first I guessed they were there to "wind up" the readers. I now think you have very little to do with flying.If I am wrong (god help us), I hope I never have the misfortune to fly with you!
Your CRM skills set you aside from 99% of pilots I have the privlage of "flying" with!!
28th May 2001, 22:48
Get a life - i hear woolworths sell them ( or is going to woolies beneath someone as obviously senior as you.) Were you never junior yourself, have you never complained about anything? i suspect that a lot of us are heartily sick of your constant sniping.
As to those CFE pilots joinging us at BA - WELCOME. the last thing we need is an 'us and them' attitude.
28th May 2001, 23:00
Psycho Nutter Bloke.
Too right, Hi to all of the folk that we are soon to fly with. Look forward to it.
28th May 2001, 23:42
Oh this is so easy. Par 72 I hate to disappoint you but there it is, an ATPL (Aeroplanes) and its been there for many a year.Keep biting
28th May 2001, 23:50
Normal Nigel, I don't go fishing for recreation(sorry , I don't know the current "in" word for dangling a worm in water) but if I did, I'd like to take you with me, the fish would be leaping onto the Barbeque before I'd lowered said worm into the river!!
29th May 2001, 01:52
It's interesting to see how people can write off a claim just because they think it improbable! Why not phone Balpa and ask them, after all...that's where the info came from.
First Officer Horrendous
29th May 2001, 12:22
ANGLING, fudpucker me old mate, ANGLING!