PPL Cost Comparisons

[chrisyross]

Hi
This is my first post on this site – so go easy. :)

I’ve recently started a PPL in Edinburgh but due to weather conditions and aircraft availability I’ve struggled to get many hours in. My plan is to do as many hours as possible in the UK then go to Florida/Spain in July/August to do a block of hours and hopefully complete my PPL. I am aiming to do 10 Hours minimum in the UK and cover all the ground exams here as well.

I’ve read a fair bit on training abroad and have created a spreadsheet (http://www.mediafire.com/?anrdjzzw1zq) that compares certain providers in Florida against one in Spain and a UK price for comparison.

Can anyone point out any glaring ommissions I may have made or anywhere I may have over/under estimated costs?

I'm quite surprised by how close the figures actually work out. Unless I've made any mistakes in the calculations I'm likely to go to Spain as it gives me more flexibilty when I go as there are no Visa issues to worry about.



Notes on the Spreadsheet
I've put in figures for 35 hours flying and 45 hours flying as I'm not sure how many hours I will need (having done some in the UK).

Obviously this spreadsheet is for my own benefit but could easily be tweaked for anyone else thinking of doing PPL training abroad. For example a flight to Florida is going to cost me £5-600 in July/August but you could probably fly for about half of that in the off-season.

I've tried to compare Cessna 172 or similar aircraft where possible, many of the US flight schools give prices for training in a 150/152 which may not be suitable for many people.

Visa issues
I wasn’t sure exactly on costs as some US schools say they pay for an M-1 visa. I took this to mean they meant they would pay any visa registration fee. I’ve added a figure in my spreadsheet of $250 to cover visa though after trawling through a few posts I’ve came up with costs of

Application fee £65/$130
Embassy visit £70/$140
SEVIS Fee £50/$100
Personal visit to embassy (flight to London + costs) £100/$200
Total £285/$570

[tiggermoth]

I'm impressed with your speadsheet - you've gone to a fair amount of trouble with it.

It's quite surprising to see the figures presented like that.

I can't comment about some of the prices there, but for OBA, if you go there for PPL training (rather than just buying hours like it appears that you have calculated) then some things are included: flight test, flying instruction, accomodation. I see you've even included the cost of a bike (I took a pucture repair kit with me, and repaired an abandoned bike and rode it)

The Visa process for the US is a real pain. The form filling, the queing for hours, and even travelling hundreds of miles to get to the embassy. The 'interview' after all the wait is a complete farce.

I got good instruction at OBA, and had a good laugh with the people there.

[slim_slag]

Haven't actually validated the cells and formulae (probably needs doing as, for example, 'Florida - OFT'!C6 <> 'Florida - OFT'!C5 and I suspect it should be equal) but a large omission could be sales tax in the states. A small omission would be examples like paying for an FAA medical in the states in order to solo. Are you sure a bike is all you need when in the States? How about transport in the UK, that has a cost. If you have made the decision to drill down to the nearest $25 then you should probably work out food costs more exactly.

Also add 20% contingency.

Otherwise a vey good way to look at it.

[gcolyer]

I will also point out that all the TSA, SEEVIS and VISA fees and the training pack are part of the course price with OBA. You pay the fees yourself at each stage of the M1 process, the cost then gets deducted off of the course price. Obviously your expenses to and from the embassy are not covered.

So the £200 (ish) for the M1 and the £200 (ish) for the study material and pilot supplies are inclusive of OBA's price. So is the accomodation.

[chrisyross]

It's quite surprising to see the figures presented like that.

I can't comment about some of the prices there, but for OBA, if you go there for PPL training (rather than just buying hours like it appears that you have calculated) then some things are included: flight test, flying instruction, accomodation. I see you've even included the cost of a bike (I took a pucture repair kit with me, and repaired an abandoned bike and rode it)

Thanks for looking at the spreadsheet.I was surprised as well with the costs - I've been looking round the forums and have seen a few people say training isn't that much more expensive in the UK when you take all costs into consideration but I've never seen the figures before.

Your point about the inclusive prices for a PPL is something i looked at when doing the figures. I assume that for booking block hours for the PPL meant you get a discount but if you take my figures and subtract things like upgraded accomodaton (own room) and the flight to Florida the prices come very close to the advertised PPL prices.

The additional Visa requirements for the US could end up swallowing up any savings to be made by going there though I'm keen to choose somewhere the instruction is good and not just the cheapest.

[chrisyross]

Haven't actually validated the cells and formulae (probably needs doing as, for example, 'Florida - OFT'!C6 <> 'Florida - OFT'!C5 and I suspect it should be equal) but a large omission could be sales tax in the states. A small omission would be examples like paying for an FAA medical in the states in order to solo. Are you sure a bike is all you need when in the States? How about transport in the UK, that has a cost. If you have made the decision to drill down to the nearest $25 then you should probably work out food costs more exactly.

Also add 20% contingency.

Quite right about the validation.
I'll add a medical ($100) into the calculations.
The bike is probably uneccessary as you say the costs are so small. I've ignored food as its going to be a cost wherever i go (though probably not the same).

What is the rate of sales tax in Florida?
Does it get added to the cost of every lesson or is it just on goods purchased?

[chrisyross]

I will also point out that all the TSA, SEEVIS and VISA fees and the training pack are part of the course price with OBA. You pay the fees yourself at each stage of the M1 process, the cost then gets deducted off of the course price. Obviously your expenses to and from the embassy are not covered.

So the £200 (ish) for the M1 and the £200 (ish) for the study material and pilot supplies are inclusive of OBA's price. So is the accomodation.

Thats good to know that all visa fee's are included.
I take it this is the case for all flight schools that say visa included?

I was trying to compare like for like for accomodation (a single room) so for 4 weeks at OBA that would mean 1* $200 (for an extra week) and 4 * $140 (for my own room).

[slim_slag]

What is the rate of sales tax in Florida?
Does it get added to the cost of every lesson or is it just on goods purchased?Don't know the rate, I would have to look it up, will be around 8% +-. Some places you don't pay sales tax on a dual flight, only on solo. Some places you don't pay sales tax on solo if you are in a club. You need to look it up, or make a phone call.

[gcolyer]

Not all schools that say VISA included mean the cost of is included.

As for accomodation, why bother with a room for yourself? The rooms at OBA are fine and being that they are not costing you any extra money.

[foxmoth]

For example a flight to Florida is going to cost me £5-600 in July/August but you could probably fly for about half of that in the off-season.
I would strongly advise against going July/August unless you are stuck with these dates - best time to go is beginning of November, not only are prices a lot lower then (Brits stop going end of October and the Americans do not really start until after Thanksgiving - towards the end of November,last week in October you will probably find some very cheap flights out), but the weather is normally a lot better,July/August normally being Thundery in the afternoon. :ok:

[chrisyross]

I would strongly advise against going July/August unless you are stuck with these dates - best time to go is beginning of November, not only are prices a lot lower then (Brits stop going end of October and the Americans do not really start until after Thanksgiving - towards the end of November,last week in October you will probably find some very cheap flights out), but the weather is normally a lot better,July/August normally being Thundery in the afternoon.

I've just been thinking about this, both the US and South Spain will be very hot in the July/August period.
I'm keen to get the PPL training in ASAP as I'm keen to carry on my training after the PPL in September/October.

[JAY PATEL]

Having just returned from doing the same thing, you need to also consider:
airport transfers to flight school
car hire whilst at flight school - some are nowhere near the training airfield
US compliance costs e.g fingerprinting
calls to home - these can be expensive if you're not careful
cost of maps - you won't have the need for the US ones once you're done but still have to buy the UK ones
Cost of medical & RT prctical tests - you won't need the US ones once you're done but will still need the UK ones if you train in the US i.e. you will pay twice

Hope this helps.

PS - I went to Fort Pierce - great place & great people

[gcolyer]

airport transfers to flight school

Inlcuded in OBA's price

car hire whilst at flight school - some are nowhere near the training airfield

Don't need one for OBA


US compliance costs e.g fingerprinting

Included in OBA's price


calls to home - these can be expensive if you're not careful

Don't call home. :hmm:

cost of maps - you won't have the need for the US ones once you're done but still have to buy the UK ones

You get the UK southern half mil chart in the OBA training pack that is included in the price. Along with a scale ruler, protractor, whizz wheel, all 6 AFE books, log book, pens, map, flight bag, Lasors.

Cost of medical & RT prctical tests - you won't need the US ones once you're done but will still need the UK ones if you train in the US i.e. you will pay twice

The JAA RT practical is included in the price and done at OBA

JAA medical is a separate cost where ever you train. The cost varies from Dr to Dr.

[michaelthewannabe]

hello!

I did a similar exercise recently, to make the same decision. I'm similarly looking for a block of concentrated hours towards my PPL, in a place with weather which allows that - although I'm at the start of the course aiming for solo, rather than the end of the course aiming for the ticket.

I'm quite surprised by how close the figures actually work out. Unless I've made any mistakes in the calculations I'm likely to go to Spain as it gives me more flexibilty when I go as there are no Visa issues to worry about.

I reached the same conclusion, and I'm going to Spain for a week on Sunday! The flying hours are much more expensive in Spain than in the USA, but for 20ish hours of flying over a week or so, Spain works out a little cheaper and a lot more convenient.

[chrisyross]

I reached the same conclusion, and I'm going to Spain for a week on Sunday! The flying hours are much more expensive in Spain than in the USA, but for 20ish hours of flying over a week or so, Spain works out a little cheaper and a lot more convenient.

Correct - It totally depends on how many hours your going to do.

It looks like these calculations that if you we're doing 0-PPL Florida would be the cheapest though if like me, you are going to need less hours then there isn't much in it (£2-300) between Spain and the US.

This obviously ignores the standard of instruction but you've got no way of guaranteeing a good standard of instruction wherever you go.

Best of luck in Spain - let me know how you get on.