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Tooloose
5th Jul 2008, 17:17
Yes. Book your flight with another airline.



lexoncd
5th Jul 2008, 17:33
Ryanair have been reported to Trading standards who are investigating their decision to remove from view all taxes and charges on the first screen showing a flight. This is contrary to the OFT regulations requiring all airlines to so this and one that Ryanair were the last to introduce.

Are they risking a fine thinking the costs will be lower than the loss of revenue from passengers seeing the true cost of a flight.

You can use smoke and mirrors for so long.

JulietNovemberPapa
5th Jul 2008, 18:24
Ryanair have been reported to Trading standards who are investigating their decision to remove from view all taxes and charges on the first screen showing a flight. This is contrary to the OFT regulations requiring all airlines to so this and one that Ryanair were the last to introduce.

Are they risking a fine thinking the costs will be lower than the loss of revenue from passengers seeing the true cost of a flight.

You can use smoke and mirrors for so long.


It'll be interesting to see what the incompetent OFT say. But what has your reply got to do with the thread starter's question? Zero, that's what.

Coquelet
5th Jul 2008, 18:38
The explanation is on www.ryanair.com (http://www.ryanair.com), at "Travel questions" :

Ryanair.com - FAQS : What is covered by Taxes, Fees and Charges in my reservation? (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=pnr&quest=taxesfeescharges)

A lot of informations about RYR are to be found on their website, although nobody ever read them ...

lexoncd
5th Jul 2008, 19:00
Quote

It'll be interesting to see what the incompetent OFT say. But what has your reply got to do with the thread starter's question? Zero, that's what

The reply states that in the first instance of showing a flight cost all mandatory items must be shown.....that's what and as Ryanair aren't showing theses taxes and charges you can't get a breakdown...

mickyman
5th Jul 2008, 19:12
coquelet

If they bothered to read them,then they wouldnt come
on here to moan....

Ignorance is bliss and all that!

I have never had a problem with Ryanairs' web-site and
wonder who complained to the OFT about not showing
taxes,on the first booking page? I have never been stupid
enough to book a flight which I didnt know the full cost
of.
Unfortunately there are people out there/on here who
manipulate reason so as to HAVE a complaint.

There are people who continue to be tedious in their
thickness and stupid by design.Be it an 'English desease'
or pan-european you can bet on them to carry on.

MM

JulietNovemberPapa
5th Jul 2008, 19:30
The reply states that in the first instance of showing a flight cost all mandatory items must be shown.....that's what and as Ryanair aren't showing theses taxes and charges you can't get a breakdown...


Here's what you earlier put:


Ryanair have been reported to Trading standards who are investigating their decision to remove from view all taxes and charges on the first screen showing a flight.


The fact that the taxes and charges presently don't appear as they should is irrelevant to this discussion because the thread starter - who is in possession of the breakdown of taxes and charges, having navigated to the next page - wants to know what constitutes a particular charge, namely insurance.

lexoncd
5th Jul 2008, 19:42
Insurance like taxes is a mandatory requirement and a such it is a requirement that the breakdown of all charges be shown.. The fact is the Oft made it a requirement that all charges be shown on the first page. Ryanair are failing to do this and so you are unable to obtain a breakdown of what the final cost and charges are until further in the booking process.

They are breaking the law. simple as that...or don't the laws of the Uk that apply to all airlines apply to Ryanair.

The Norwegian Government fined Ryanair some years ago for failing to comply with their legislation. Ryanair soon complied.

mickyman
5th Jul 2008, 20:04
Lexoncd

Is Ryanair a UK airline ?

MM

lexoncd
5th Jul 2008, 22:55
Mickyman

Ryanair trades within the Uk and a s such is bound by Uk rules realating to pricing regulations.

The wheelchair levy came about as many may recall when they lost a case for charging passengers who required assistance. This was against the disability discrimination act. Ryanair then used this as a way to place a levy on all passengers. They will carry no more than four disabled passengers per flight.

The sooner Ryanair show all charges the better. They will be seen to have the high ground and can defend themselves from the critics for these hidden charges. If as they say it is they have the lowest fares then proove it...and challenge others to do likewise.

Pending this we await the OFT and Trading standards report...

INKJET
6th Jul 2008, 01:48
Wheel chair levy

is it still 0.75p a flight? nobody is going to complain about that, so a nice little earner 50m pax x £0.75p= £37.5m a year credit were credit due MOL has got some neck

RAT 5
6th Jul 2008, 09:43
Not wishing to defend RYR on all fronts, it is true to say that on their booking page they ackowledge the lack of inclusive charges on page 1 and declare they are tackling the problem, and that all additional charges are shown on page 2. Thus, they are not flouting the law quite so blantantly as some would suggest.

Seat62K
6th Jul 2008, 10:25
I agree that Ryanair should initially quote fares which include all unavoidable charges, but their final fares payable are, for the European routes I fly, typically (but not always) unbeatable. For example, recently I booked flights on Ryanair which, in total, would have been almost two and a half times as expensive on BA (237% to be precise). Even though I'm an Executive Club member, flying with BA on these occasions would have made no sense whatsoever.

sam dilly
6th Jul 2008, 11:00
Actually I believe that the Wheelchair levy is now outlawed. This charge under an EU regulation is now included in the PSC charge at all airports in the EU. Therefore anybody booking and being charged this fee, is in fact having their money stolen !
Who is brave enough to actually have the charges brought ?:=

mickyman
6th Jul 2008, 11:29
Lexoncd

I think all airlines flying around Europe are regulated
by European law and not as I understand on an
individual country by country basis.However if it IS
A European law then surely the continental law makers
would investigate and not just the OFT etc....?

I write again that:

PEOPLE WHO PURCHASE TICKETS WITHOUT KNOWING
THE TOTAL COST ARE VERY DIM.

The thread starter was just too lazy to click here and
there on Ryanairs' web-site - but found it much better
to start this thread which probably required a few more
clicks to start!

MM

Skipness One Echo
6th Jul 2008, 12:52
OK this sounds insane, BUT do Ryanair's B737s have the seats at a different height across the fleet? The last couple of flights I made I had to shuffle down quite far in the seat to see outta the window, takin pics was tricky. These were EI-DP* aircraft, except comin back on EI-DHI I was seated at the right height to see out! Clearly I have lost six inches in height or I'm going mad. Anyone in the know comment? I know some have the life jacket beneath the seat and some have it above your head so they don't have a uniform fleet....

Budfrey27
6th Jul 2008, 15:22
lol...skipness...i know exactly what you mean....in the DY. series and DC. i have had the same problem....get the overwing exits so you can really slouch in peace and look outta the window!!

best o luck
Bud :uhoh:

lexoncd
6th Jul 2008, 21:36
Mickyman.

Its quite simple really. The rules on pricing relate to all airlines and travel providers. They must include all non optional prices.

Strange how Ryanair have now posted they have a "technical problem" that prevents them from showing the prices according to current legislation. Whys isn't this given prominence on their home page in a similar size to their current offer rather than hidden away on a page after you have selected a flight.

I wonder if the IT people will devote as much haste in fixing this issue as they would if the system was down completely...

Based
7th Jul 2008, 00:01
Lexoncd, Ryanair do now advertise their fares including all non-optional charges. If you're talking about the initial flight selection page, even the likes of the wonderful BA don't show all taxes and charges on theirs - do you moan about this too? Go find something else to whine about.

lexoncd
7th Jul 2008, 08:20
Based. If you look again at BA.com you will see that when you select a fare it includes all taxes and charges and has this in red text highlighting the fact. In the final breakdown it shows these net with taxes and charges added but this is still the sum of the original flights you select.

Please take the time to avail yourself of the Oft ruling on airline seat pricing and all tarvel pricing matters and you will see the point or perhaps not.

Based
7th Jul 2008, 08:59
Whilst BA advertise their flights departing within the UK including taxes, etc., they advertise them excluding taxes, etc. when they're departing from Ireland for example.

sky9
7th Jul 2008, 11:26
The insurance levy is £4.04 per passenger per flight or £200m per year in 2008.

I would love to know exactly what their insurance premium is and what it covers.

I just call it profit.

mickyman
7th Jul 2008, 12:23
lexoncd

You missed my point about European law.

If Ryanair are acting illegally by not showing
all charges,then I would have thought that
the greater might of the European Union,would
come down on them like a ton of bricks.
Yet I have not heard any fuss around Europe
involving Ryanair and this issue.

As Burrows wrote 'open up the doors of perception'
and you may see things more clearly!

Newspapers always appologise on the inside of their
papers - I wonder why.

MM

Angry Rebel
7th Jul 2008, 12:23
The insurance charge isn't a levy, it's an optional charge which you can say no to. Granted, it's nasty that it's set to purchase by default, and you have to opt out of it, but you don't have to pay it.

bristolflyer
7th Jul 2008, 14:00
For the love of God people, it's Ryan Air! I agree with the second comment by Tooloose "If you don't like their practice book with another airline". If you pay £25 to fly to a field in France you will be treated accordingly. I find it astonishing that people can still be aggrieved by Ryan Air and their add-on costs despite years of bad press publicity highlighting such activity. If you haven't worked out that the lead in price will be nothing like the final price then you have been living in a cave for the last ten years. The added costs are the way they make money. I bet if you really investigated the insurance risk is covered by a sister company Ryan Air "Insurance" Ireland Limited!!. Everybody knows they will try to catch you out at every stage. Just play them at their own game and come within their regulations and check the booking form before you purchase so they cannot impose extra charges.

kingston_toon
7th Jul 2008, 14:39
Most of my flights are made to places I've never been before, just for a break, and to travel around. For that, Ryanair is unbeatable. I'll have been to every EU country by the end of this year, and that's all thanks to Ryanair. If you accept you'll be flying to a random airport in the countryside, check-in online, carry only hand luggage and pay using Electron (I got this card purely to beat Ryanair's payment charges) then they are brilliant. I haven't paid more than £10 one way for any flight with them this year, and am rarely delayed.

If my trip has a point (i.e. visiting parents at Xmas, where a suitcase is necessary, or to a specific place where my football team are playing) I'll use Ryanair if they substantially cheaper all-in... if not, then there are tens of other airlines out there who I'll happily give my business to, if the fare is competitive.

They are certainly getting sneakier with their fares though... on some routes (Dublin especially), you can have £0.01 fares which are no taxes, £0.00 fares at £25.91 taxes or £15.00 "special offer" fares which have £4.99 taxes. So the £15.00 base fare is cheaper than the £0.00 fare, but the £0.01 is the cheapest of the lot! I wonder how many people look at this before pressing "book"?

JulietNovemberPapa
7th Jul 2008, 17:33
The insurance charge isn't a levy, it's an optional charge which you can say no to. Granted, it's nasty that it's set to purchase by default, and you have to opt out of it, but you don't have to pay it.

Travel insurance integrated into the booking process can massively increase sales. Moreover, the reason for customers having to de-select an option (in this discussion, travel insurance) if they don't want it is obvious: it can massively increase sales. Indeed, flyBE says* that by changing from the option not being automatically selected to being selected (so customers must de-select it if they don't require it) resulted in a 60% increase in travel insurance sales.

* Page 23 on http://www.airlineinformation.org/conferences/2007_ARAC/documents/MilitsaPriebetichGill_Flybe.pdf

TartinTon
7th Jul 2008, 18:12
Think we're getting confused over different things here. The insurance levy is compulsory. The travel insurance is the one that you can opt out of but is initially set to be included unless you choose to opt out.

Based
8th Jul 2008, 07:27
Handling fees seem to be up to €5/£4 per sector for all cards, debit or credit. Only Electron still free - to avoid having to include these fees in the advertised price I assume.

kingston_toon
8th Jul 2008, 09:58
*faints* That's outrageous. How on EARTH can they justify charging a £4 debit card on what could be a £4.99 fare?? I can see this one being the last straw for some people....

However, it certainly vindicates my decision to get an Electron card solely for the purpose of booking flights! When will they start charging for that too, I wonder?

Based
8th Jul 2008, 10:10
Their statement is that "As a special offer to Visa Electron card holders, Ryanair, for a limited period only, will not apply a Debit Card charge"

I suspect it will remain free as long as bookings using Electron cards remain below a certain percentage of overall bookings. If more and more people move towards Electron cards (quite difficult given it's limited availability worldwide) then they will have to apply a charge to consolidate revenue. The downside to Ryanair being having to include this charge in their advertised fares, the whole reason for having it free in the first place.

JulietNovemberPapa
8th Jul 2008, 12:08
FR's debit card fee (excluding Visa Electron) was previously £1.20 per person per sector. Now that's rocketed to £4 ppps. That's an increase of 333.33%.

If I recall correctly its credit card fee was previously £3 ppps. Now that's increased to £4 ppps. That's an increase of 33.33%.

Dramatic increases.

We don't know how many passengers buy return tickets and how many buy one-way tickets, so the following will just be an illustration: £4 x 50m passengers = £200m. So it'll generate a minimum of £200m from this ancillary revenue source. Of course, some people - probably a tiny fraction - will pay by Visa Electron as that doesn't yet incur a charge, but I foresee that that will change.

Anyway, it brilliantly illustrates how ancillary revenue, particularly fee-for-service components, very often supplements ticket revenue, and just how fundamental ancillary revenue, taken collectively, very often is. And it brilliantly illustrates how aggressive FR is in pursuing profit from every possible source.

lexoncd
8th Jul 2008, 12:59
By not charging a fee on a card few people have they can defend themselves from increasing other charges by saying "you have a choice" I would like to know what Barclays and mastercard have to say about these charges for using a card. Everyone knows that those transaction charges aren't justified.

Calll it what you want but it's all a fuel surcharge in disguise....and being tucked away right at the end of the transaction is where they're hoping to get away with it...and most likely will for a time.

Excess baggage fee for a second suitcase is now £16!!!!

besj
8th Jul 2008, 14:24
I am one (of many I believe) who have a Visa Electron only for booking with Ryanair, especially their 1 p all inclusives (excluding credit card charges). There are several companies who offers Visa Electron without any annual fee, just a 2-3 % upload surcharge. These are perfect for those who try to avoid Ryanair's fees and charges...

Based
8th Jul 2008, 16:23
JulietNovemberPapa, it doesn't matter whether people book a single or return trip as the charge is applied per sector so your illustration is fairly accurate. Yes ancillary revenue is the key to airlines surviving in the current economic climate but the problem is that paying for your flight is part of the booking process, not something optional!

While I had no issues with any of Ryanair's other charges and whether they are advertised or not, this is one that is pushing my tolerances a bit. I have no real sympathy for people with excess luggage or if people wish to pay to have priority boarding that's all fine - these are issues where the choice of payment is completely within the control of the passenger. An Electron card however is not always easily accessable depending on which country you live in and in some circumstances will make the debit/credit card fee mandatory to passengers.

Seat62K
8th Jul 2008, 16:55
Just booked a shed-load of flights with easyJet out of Stansted for the winter. I was surprised to see, when comparing like-for-like with Ryanair, how much better value easyJet was, despite the Ryanair "£20 off" offer. I'm effectively paying fares unchanged in comparison with last winter. My only concern is easyJet's poor punctuality compared with Ryanair (and the disorganised boarding).
Interestingly, easyJet charge 2.5% of the fare for paying with most credit cards, with a minimum of £4.95. It also allows you to add flights to a "basket"; I find this so much more user-friendly than Ryanair, which only allows one single/return flight to be booked at a time. For someone who wishes to book multiple trips in one go this is a pain.

Seat62K
8th Jul 2008, 17:11
Has anyone else noticed that Ryanair converts the fares for flights booked in currencies other than the one of the cardholder without the agreement of the cardholder? I've made a few one-way bookings back to the UK which quoted prices in euros. Instead of these fares appearing as euros on my UK credit card statement - and then converted to sterling by my card provider - I found only a sterling debit. Am I right in thinking that because of the possibility of high rates of conversion "commission", consumers have to be offered the option of being billed in the "local" currency or in their own?

JulietNovemberPapa
8th Jul 2008, 17:51
it doesn't matter whether people book a single or return trip as the charge is applied per sector so your illustration is fairly accurate

Yeah, £200m would pretty much be the minimum generated.

If we knew how many people book returns and how many book singles it'd be far better: it could massively alter the total generated. For example, rather than £4 x 50m = £200m, what if 25m bought one-way flights and 25m bought returns? £4 x 25m + £8 x 25m = £300m. An extra £100m. What is clear is that card charges generate massive revenue.

Based
9th Jul 2008, 07:25
No JulietNovemberPapa, as I said it's irrelevant who books one ways or returns. Ryanair are currently carrying in the region of 50m passengers per annum. This is calculated on a per sector basis so a person booking a return trip is two passengers. Therefore it may be that 12.5m are booking returns and 25m booking singles but since the credit card charge is per sector it doesn't matter how the 50m figure is arrived at.

Budfrey27
9th Jul 2008, 08:43
...hi folks...could somebody advise whether Santander has ever been flown from LPL...cos if not...it soon will be!
cheers
Bud

JulietNovemberPapa
9th Jul 2008, 09:13
Aha, yes, silly me - I added an extra 25m pax to the total. :8

Ok, around £200m no matter the breakdown of returns and singles.

Far easier just to stick with the basic calculation: £4 x 50m. :P

anna_list
9th Jul 2008, 09:45
Liverpool - Santander was flown 3x weekly between Oct 06 and Oct 07.
The average flown LF was 66% - not too fantastic, although marginally better than the 64% achieved by LPL-SCQ, which has been resurrected this Summer. Cue usual comments about loads and yields ...

Budfrey27
9th Jul 2008, 10:10
...is this site that bad that as soon as a comment is made someone is waiting to put you down? Sounds like people aren't making good use of any spare time they may have.... Thanks for the info anyway Anna List...much appreciated....i was hoping that if it was LPL then maybe BHX could be next (don't bother flaming my wacko logic anyone)...it's the route i am waiting on..sick of going down to STN for it!
cheers
Bud

greenbroker
9th Jul 2008, 15:50
Who did you get your Visa Electron card through jesi? I did a search and couldn't find any banks. It appears to have gone out of fashion (except Ireland)? It was introduced as a student card mianly.

40&80
9th Jul 2008, 21:29
Not amused to find an extra £16 suprise! (two adult passenger returns) added to the original expected bill of £39.96 today... having used my debit card in an effort to avoid a credit card charge.
That is an unexpected extra of 40.04% and the small print does say it applies now to both a debit card and a credit card payment.
Apparently when opening up the small print one does find that a £4
charge per sector per passenger is due...a total of £16 for one debit card transaction...this must be some sort of record a 40.04% charge for useing a debit card once.

Exasperated
9th Jul 2008, 21:40
Has anyone else noticed that Ryanair converts the fares for flights booked in currencies other than the one of the cardholder without the agreement of the cardholder? I've made a few one-way bookings back to the UK which quoted prices in euros. Instead of these fares appearing as euros on my UK credit card statement - and then converted to sterling by my card provider - I found only a sterling debit. Am I right in thinking that because of the possibility of high rates of conversion "commission", consumers have to be offered the option of being billed in the "local" currency or in their own?

Ryanair are almost certainly breaking the dynamic currency conversion rules of the credit card company by not offering the option to charge in the local currency. This is certainly the case in the UK but may differ overseas, speak to your card company having first checked the conversion rate used

Ex

True Blue
9th Jul 2008, 21:40
I have to laugh at all this moaning on this forum re Ryanair CC charges. Why are you using them? Go find a decent airline. When Fr see their pax nos falling in decent numbers they will soon change their policy. meantime if you want to pay these rip-off fees, more fool you. At the end of the day, fr will suceed or fail on demand and supply. If the demand falls, they will fall. And we all control the demand. But as far as I can see, many are slaves to the idea that Fr are cheap. Due to all their extras, a hidden fuel supplement, they are not.

True blue

lexoncd
9th Jul 2008, 22:48
The EU ruling on all inclusive pricing makes me laugh.

A Ryanair spokeman stated that:

“Ryanair is delighted that the European Parliament has decided to bring other airlines into line with Ryanair’s high standards of fare transparency. There will be no changes to the Ryanair website following this legislation as Ryanair already complies with it. .”

Then tucked away on page two of their site they admit that since the 25th June they haven't complied.
Credit and debit card charges have risn
Priority boarding charges have risen.

The Danish authorites are following the Norwegian ones and challenging the way fares are displayed/advertised.

There is a fundamental swithc in the market coming with changes in the economy. Ryanair would gain far more by being open and then challening anuone to a direct fare comparison or is it this they always back away from?

I'm waiting for my local petrol station to advertise fuel at 63p per litre plus taxes ( 50.5 p hydrocarbon tax and 17.5% VAT) plus electronic pump dispension tax 5p, disposable glove tax 2p, carparking charges whilst refuling 8p.

Anyway you look at it Ryanair are still unhedged on fuel and for a slong as these silly crude prices continue it will wipe out a huge amount of their profits. For what its worth If I was MOL I would have done the same as him when oil was $65 as I couldn't see it sustaining higher prices for long...

Based
10th Jul 2008, 01:36
You make me laugh lexoncd. Your rambling leaves me unsure as to what it is your whining about this time. Overall the EU decision I guess.

Your petrol station example acts as a very good point actually. I acknowledge that Ryanair doesn't always break down taxes and charges in a completely clear manner yet it does serve as a good indicator of where a customer is receiving overall value for money. For example I don't perceive to be gaining any additional benefit or enjoyment from flying out of BHX rather than SNN yet I have to pay over 4 times the charges to fly from BHX when standard taxes and charges are applied. Why should airport charges be hidden within an airfare? Why should additional charges at a petrol station be hidden within the price per litre? I welcome Ryanair's (and other LCCs) shakeup of how customers are given details of air travel costs and can only hope this spreads to other industries. I personally don't feel the need to be treated like child, I studied mathematics at school like the next kid.

Coquelet
10th Jul 2008, 09:03
I don't understand all that moaning about the Ryanair prices.
At the end of the booking process (it takes one or two minutes at the most), you get the final total price, including or not hold luggage, insurance, priority boarding, and all - and then, you have the choice of buying it or not.
If the price is too high, you click on the "x" at the upper right corner of your screen, and that is it. Where is the problem ?

james170969
10th Jul 2008, 15:47
Who did you get your Visa Electron card through jesi? I did a search and couldn't find any banks. It appears to have gone out of fashion (except Ireland)? It was introduced as a student card mianly.

Greenbroker, I got a Visa Electron card from the Co-operative Bank last week. Now I'll be able to book flights on Ryanair and not pay a credit or debit card fee.

OliWW
10th Jul 2008, 16:23
I know that Apr 09 is quite a way away, but does anyone think that FR will expand from EMA next summer, or are they sticking wiv BHX?

JulietNovemberPapa
10th Jul 2008, 17:38
Now I'll be able to book flights on Ryanair and not pay a credit or debit card fee.


Yep, for the time being. But it will at some point go from free-of-charge to pay-to-use, based on: "As a special offer to Visa Electron card holders, Ryanair, for a limited period only, will not apply a Debit Card charge." Emphasis mine. That's from: Ryanair.com - FAQS : Table of Fees (English) (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=CHARGES)

Seat62K
10th Jul 2008, 20:04
Today, 2100 UK time, Ryanair Website completely unavailable. Does anyone know what's going on?:confused:

h&s
10th Jul 2008, 21:58
It happened MANY times over the past weeks, actually since they changed their booking software. Apparently, this is their new, more convenient, quicker website lol
Fact is since they changed it, it's completely rubbish :ugh:

kingston_toon
11th Jul 2008, 00:00
Electron cards: I used Halifax Easycash... apply online...

The other good thing is that, if you're with HSBC (and perhaps others) it now only takes 5 mins or so to transfer funds from your main account to Halifax... no more waiting 2 days or more. So you can transfer money straight in to pay for your flight just before booking.

JadeGoody
15th Jul 2008, 10:04
New routes!:)

NYO-PRG 1-3-5-7
NYO-LCJ 3-7
NYO-WRO 2-4-6
NYO-LRK 2-3-6



Increase capcity

NYO-Berlin 14 fligths per week
NYO-Milano 9 fligths per week
NYO-Riga daily
NYO-Eindhoven 6 fligths per week


and a new route from luton BIQ (http://www.theairdb.com/airport/BIQ.html)

Hollymead
15th Jul 2008, 10:10
Does that mean the end of STN -BIQ ? :{

JulietNovemberPapa
15th Jul 2008, 10:30
Seems it'll be:

STN-BIQ: 1, 3, 5, 7
LTN-BIQ: 2, 4, 6

positive
15th Jul 2008, 13:49
Ryanair has announced it is reducing the number of flights into and out of Dublin Airport this winter.Ryanair will operate 18 aircraft out of Dublin this winter, down from 22 last year, and it says it will have 1,200 weekly flights compared to 1,350 last year. This represents an 18% reduction in aircraft and a 12% reduction in weekly flights.

Founder
15th Jul 2008, 14:47
Seams that they are moving aircrafts... they are increasing traffic from sweden to the baltic and eastern countries...

EI-BUD
15th Jul 2008, 15:23
It seems that there will be a cut back in Dublin to Stansted by 2 a day, Cork by 1, most of the UK regional airports remain the same, so the big reductions must be on route to the continent and longers sectors.

Might be some opportunity for Aer Lingus here.

EI-BUD

positive
15th Jul 2008, 16:08
I think they will also try and push up their load factor on certain routes by cutting frequencies etc.There is also a lot of Sun Routes which would also be summer only routes Palma,Zadar,Porto etc..Aer Lingus will be pleased to see this move as well.Lets wait and see whats in store for Stansted!!!!

Jes
15th Jul 2008, 18:08
Isn't there a Ryanair thread that deals with all this?

sunday8pm
15th Jul 2008, 18:32
Heard a rumour at Liverpool airport on Friday evening that Ryanair are about to start a LPL-STN service? Anyone shed any light on this?

drnick384
15th Jul 2008, 20:15
DAA Rains Some Facts on Ryanair's Latest Colourful Parade


The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) wishes to respond to Ryanair's latest colourful communication with some relevant facts.

Dublin Airport's maximum airport charge of just under €7.40 per journey is amongst the lowest of all major European Airports. Dublin Airport is now Europe's eighth busiest international airport and is not comparable to the remote former airfields to which Ryanair largely flies.
Dublin Airport's maximum airport charge per journey amounts to less than half the €15 cost of checking in one bag on a Ryanair flight at Dublin Airport.
Dublin Airport's maximum airport charge per journey amounts to less than 75% of the credit card handling charge per passenger for a Ryanair return flight.
Dublin Airport's maximum airport charge per journey is only slightly higher than the €5.49 per passenger journey, Ryanair charges for "insurance" against terrorism attacks.
Airport charges at Dublin Airport are paid by passengers and not by Ryanair or any other airline. Airlines pass this charge fully to passengers' via their airline tickets.
The airport charge at Dublin Airport helps to cover all the Airport's operational costs, including a 24-hour fire brigade service, nearly 700 passenger security employees and up to 100 customer care employees. The airport charge also partly pays for the €2bn investment programme underway at Dublin Airport.
Ryanair pays a rental charge of €25,000 per year for each check-in desk at Dublin Airport, or total of €750,000 per year. Ryanair generates approximately €40m per annum from check-in and baggage charges at Dublin Airport's check-in desks. The €25,000 charge per check-in desk represents less than half the full cost of providing these desks and their IT and baggage handling support systems.The DAA is disappointed when any airline announces plans to reduce traffic at Dublin Airport. The DAA believes strongly that Ryanair's own business environment has influenced its announcement today and not the competitive charges on offer at Dublin Airport, from where six new Ryanair routes have been launched to date this year.
The combination of a sharp economic slowdown in many of its key markets, its own failure to provide hedge against historically high oil prices and its heavily loss-making investment in Aer Lingus are the key factors driving this decision to consolidate seasonal schedules and not airport charges, which are paid fully by the airline's passengers.
Ryanair's own recent statements have acknowledged that the scale of the impact of current oil prices alone is sufficient to eliminate the airline's current year profits. In this context, the competitive charges at Dublin Airport paid for by the airline's passengers, are of marginal significance.
The DAA is fully aware of the impact of the current economic environment on all its key customers. As a fully commercial business, its own commercial revenues and operational costs have also been impacted by slowing economic activity and higher energy and other costs.

The DAA will continue to work closely with all its airline customers to try to identify appropriate support for their services in a very difficult aviation environment. Any such support can only be agreed in the context of the DAA's own challenging commercial and investment requirements and, under EU rules, must be fully transparent and available to all airlines at Dublin Airport. The DAA also continues to evaluate all its costs rigorously.
The DAA can confirm that Ryanair has recently sought support for some of its winter services at Dublin Airport on a seemingly exclusive and non-commercial basis. The DAA finds it ironic that Ryanair, the so-called champion of competition, complains publicly when its request for anti-competitive support mechanisms, are justly declined. The DAA is responding to correspondence from Ryanair this week, seeking support under current route incentive schemes for routes the airline plans to launch this winter.:ok:



DAA explains some facts to Ryanair (http://www.dublinairport.com/at-airport/latest-news/150708_DAAexplainsfacts.html)

EI-BUD
15th Jul 2008, 20:41
Ryanair to STN from LPL, I would be amazed given that they axed Blackpool and easyjet used to do LPL LTN and it was withdrawn due to poor loads.

MUFC_fan
15th Jul 2008, 21:50
1. Not enough money can be made
2. Slots at STN at peak business periods (which they would need to be) are becoming gold dust
3. Virgin Trains
4. Is there a real need?

owenkirk2005
15th Jul 2008, 22:13
Hi im traveling ryanair to dublin from east midlands on online check-in and was wondering if pushchairs can be taken free of charge? thanks

rubik101
15th Jul 2008, 22:37
It's the 2bn euros of airport development that RYR are peeved about. This will be the most expensive terminal in the EU?
Without it the charges would e 3 euros per pax.

frfly
16th Jul 2008, 12:56
Ryanair only allow infants 0-2 to carry one piece of baby equipment i.e. pushchair. I presume that as you are checking in online, then you must be travelling with a child, 2+, therefore technically you might have to pay for it as baby equipment. However, it all depends on the ground staff and whether they pick up on this. If you are checking in online and taking a buggy, then you must go to check-in anyway to get the buggy tagged, as it will be going into the hold. If you want to be really cheeky just turn up at the aircraft with the buggy and online check-in, however this can cause major issues for the ground staff, and if it could cause a delay, the buggy could get left behind.

Best to check-in online and go to chek-in, try your chances with the ground staff! Hope that helps.

compton3bravo
16th Jul 2008, 15:18
I see from another website that Ryanair are to commence flights to Malaga, Basle (both easyJet routes at present) and Fuerteventura from Stansted but no start times. They are not available on the booking engine at the moment. Ryanair seem to be creating quite a presence at Malaga at the moment.

easydan319
16th Jul 2008, 15:18
These new routes are listed on www.theairdb.com (http://www.theairdb.com)

Alicante - Leeds/Bradford
Alicante - Palma
Gerona - Ibiza
Gerona - Leeds/Bradford
Gerona - Palma
Gerona - Turin
London Stansted - Malaga
London Stansted - Basel
London Stansted - Fuerteventura
London Stansted - Ibiza
London Stansted - Katowice
London Stansted - Tenerife South

Seat62K
16th Jul 2008, 16:18
compton3bravo, please may we have the Website address. Thanks!

bermudatriangle
16th Jul 2008, 16:35
very interesting to see the public bust-up between oleary and the Dublin airport authority about reduced schedules.finally even those in dublin realise ryanairs business model of relying on unfair subsidies to start new routes,which are then chopped when the subsidies expire,or are threatened to be withdrawn.the writing is now on the wall,no subsidies last forever and in the future ryanair are going to have to compete without subsidies.it's anyones guess how long it will be before numerous routes get the chop.ryanair still in business in 2 years time ??

compton3bravo
16th Jul 2008, 16:36
TheAirDB - The Global Aviation DB (http://www.theairdb.com)

cuthere
16th Jul 2008, 17:20
Since when did Ryanair decide it'd be okay to charge £4 perflight "handling fee" when booking a flight on their website. I've just paid £24 for the pleasure of booking three return flights.

I thought this kind of thing had been banned?

VanBosh
16th Jul 2008, 18:26
According to todays Irish Independent, Ryanair will announce a new base tomorrow in the UK. Whats Left? MAN, NCL, LDY or maybe LBA considering according to the post above they are to get two new routes...ALC & GRO...but they are prob just re shuffle of ALC & GRO.

Edit - Heard another interview with MOL who said he was announcing 7 routes ex UK today and he would be in London so perhaps incorrect news by the indo.

daz211
16th Jul 2008, 19:13
Well done Ryanair :D:ok::D.
STN to TFS, FUE and IBZ, Win, Win, Win :ok:.
Long time in coming but all will be well used.

Yorkielondon
16th Jul 2008, 20:02
It seems that Fr will announce grounding of around 16 aircraft at STN this winter due to worsening market conditions. What are the real reasons?

Conditions definately tough

Send messagfe to BAA re charging structure

Get a few heavy checks done?

Crews already reached max hours by Dec

Traditional graveyard Dec-Feb

Comments please....

babemagnet
16th Jul 2008, 20:10
my comment is : Old news!

Yorkielondon
16th Jul 2008, 20:12
Why old news? sure they've done this before but the scale is greater-around 40% of based fleet at STN.

My bet is that it wont be an out and out grounding but some slack time according to day of week and some will be added to other bases...like the one near to you perhaps?

JulietNovemberPapa
17th Jul 2008, 06:31
Gerona - Turin



That used to be operated by was cut. So good if it reappears.

Bagso
17th Jul 2008, 07:21
...i thought the grounding was a pre cursor to redeploying the aircraft to the new Manchester base where apparently charges are much cheaper than Stansted ?

rubik101
17th Jul 2008, 08:28
Bermuda Triangle, it is far more likely that the airline you work for, assuming you do, rather than RYR, is no longer with us in two years time. RYR do not 'rely' on any subsidies but strive, as all good businesses do, to extract the most favorable rates from their suppliers, in this case, the airports.
The grounded aircraft will not be sitting idle for the winter, they will be generating a very tidy sum when leased to the Asian carriers that are crying out for short deliveries on new aircraft.
When other airlines are reducing capacity, raising fuel surcharges, yet again, raising prices and canceling routes, RYR is opening new routes, new bases and training newcomers as fast as ever.
Hardly the sign of a company on its knees, which I imagine is what so many of you might wish to see.
You will be disappointed, one way or another!

JulietNovemberPapa
17th Jul 2008, 08:55
When other airlines are reducing capacity, raising fuel surcharges, yet again, raising prices and canceling routes, RYR is opening new routes, new bases and training newcomers as fast as ever.


Yep. From difficulty very often comes opportunity (for some airlines, anyway). Think back to what happened after 11th September: Ryanair, easyJet and Southwest were still growing (in terms of new routes and aircraft and consequently staff numbers), acquiring excellent deals from aircraft manufacturers, etc.

Special anna.aero briefing: Capacity and route reductions provide opportunities for niche carriers (and LCCs) | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2008/06/20/capacity-and-route-reductions-provide-opportunities-for-niche-carriers-and-lccs/)

Ryanair has, of course, been tweeking upwards some of its fee-for-service ancillary streams, particularly its card fee and excess baggage charges. Ancillary revenue does, of course, supplement flight ticket (primary) revenue.

Budfrey27
17th Jul 2008, 10:00
...nice new destinations map (microsoft silverlight) on the website....the older version was a little clearer to me though!

cheers
Bud :8

Patuta
17th Jul 2008, 10:25
But now you zoom into the map with the mouse wheel. That's great.
Also watch: Greece is on the map now!

VanBosh
17th Jul 2008, 10:30
so is Australia and every country in the world!

doubt it means much

JadeGoody
17th Jul 2008, 10:31
USA is also in the map :p

jack_essex
17th Jul 2008, 11:05
Great to see the new routes from Stansted! Tenerife and Malaga have been long overdue in my opinion. Ibiza and Madrid (already announced) will also make good new additions. Will be interesting to have Ryanair and easyJet going head to head on most of the Spanish flights.

840
17th Jul 2008, 11:15
According to this report, flights into 7 airports will be suspended for 6 weeks this Winter.

Ryanair to stop flights to seven airports this winter | BreakingNews.ie (http://breaking.tcm.ie/business/mhqlauaugboj/)

Now, one of the airports listed is Valencia, which is a hub. Pretty drastic, No?

VanBosh
17th Jul 2008, 11:19
same data on RTE.

to close a base for 6 weeks is pretty drastic but oil at 130 a barrell is pretty drastic too..

JulietNovemberPapa
17th Jul 2008, 12:55
Offically announced from STN (listed at the bottom of its STN reduction news article):

AGP 3x weekly 28th Oct
FUE 3x weekly 28th Oct
TFS 3x weekly 28th Oct
IBZ 3x weekly 28th Oct
KTW daily 27th Oct
BSL 3x weekly 21st Dec

thepeacock
17th Jul 2008, 13:26
I don't think IBZ will work very well in the winter.

Crusher1
17th Jul 2008, 13:42
I have a flight booked EMA-VLC on 15th Dec, I looked on RYR web site but no news about it being cancelled (yet).

JulietNovemberPapa
17th Jul 2008, 13:58
The following are listed in FR's pull-down menu and are on its (new) route map:

ALC-LBA = 3x weekly
ALC-PMI = 3x weekly
GRO-IBZ = 3x weekly
GRO-LBA = 4x weekly
GRO-PMI = 4x weekly
GRO-TRN = 3x weekly

Seat62K
17th Jul 2008, 14:18
So, BA decides to introduce Gatwick-Valencia flights whilst Ryanair suspends its Stansted-Valencia service from 4 November to 19 December! What a funny old world we live in!
On a more serious note, these cancellations will make me think very carefully in future about choosing Ryanair in case I, too, find flights cancelled once they've been booked (this is especially true for essential journeys or those involving non-refundable hotel bookings). I hope MOL reads this.

befree
17th Jul 2008, 16:13
MOL is going to mess around lots of pax by pulling all the flights. next time they will book with someone else.

bermudatriangle
17th Jul 2008, 16:16
the locost airline business strategy is clearly falling apart and is in no way sustainable with the current economic factors in play.passengers must be very,very wary if booking ahead with ryanair,with the real possibility of having their travel plans thrown into chaos with route cancellations.no ammount of charges for check-in,hold baggage,priority boarding,undrinkable spirits in plastic sachets served with no ice onboard,will make up for the increase in fuel prices.added together,locost travel is no longer locost.all the passengers taking advantage of cheap fares to pop around europe on their days off,will no longer be passengers,as the very incentive,ie cheap travel,will have disappeared.i pity all those who bought holiday homes in the middle of nowhere,only accessible via airports we had never heard of,only to find the flights no longer exist,or cost 5 times more than this time last year.laying up aircraft due to pre-planned cancellations is one option,flying the others half empty will not be an option for long.tough times ahead for ryanair i believe.

frfly
17th Jul 2008, 18:34
What an utter load of rubbish! I think you'll find both EZY and RYR are most likely to whether the storm over your traditional carriers. Punters are feeling the pinch in Europe, as well as the States. They are going to be far more attracted by the low fares of LCC's, with no fuel surcharges etc. Yes they have to pay for a few extra things, but if they are wise and cautious then they'll get a cheaper fare generally than offered by a legacy carrier.

All airlines are reassessing their strategies, but you cannot say that RYR will suffer most, because they have proven that they quite clearly wont. They might only break even next year, however watch this space, others will lose money.

OliWW
17th Jul 2008, 19:28
I recentally read that Ryanair are considering:

Gothenburg City 3x Weekly
Basel 4x Weekly
Malta 2x Weekly
Hamburg 4x Weekly
Reus 3x Weekly
Ibiza 2x Weekly

from EMA
Is this true, or should I keep on dreaming about expansion at EMA in the next few months... If they are considering it, wouldnt that be a definate 7th aircraft for EMA...

Seat62K
17th Jul 2008, 19:56
I'm confused! Apparently, Ryanair will cease flying between Stansted and Valencia between 4 November and 19 December. If this is the case why (as of just five minutes ago) is it still possible to book flights within this period? (I only tried 7-8 November.) Doesn't the left hand know what the right one is doing or did I miss something?

MAN777
17th Jul 2008, 20:23
Is it correct that credit card fees are now £8 per booking per pax ?

JulietNovemberPapa
17th Jul 2008, 20:53
No, it's £4 per passenger per sector for both debit and credit cards, as here: Ryanair.com - FAQS : Table of Fees (English) (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=CHARGES). Presently, Visa Electron is free, but that's likely to change considering this wording: "As a special offer to Visa Electron card holders, Ryanair, for a limited period only, will not apply a Debit Card charge."

h&s
17th Jul 2008, 21:39
RYR do not 'rely' on any subsidies but strive, as all good businesses do, to extract the most favorable rates from their suppliers, in this case, the airports.


Wrong!
It has already been proved that ryanair received illegal subsidies from the airport, and trust me, they will be condemned again many times in the futur

Ryanair business model is founded on the economic exploitation of the weaker, and especially the cabin crew coming from the east (really bad paid whereas they are harder and harder to find) and the airports (because ryanair knows very well that many airport's revenue are 90% driven by Ryanair, so if they lost Ryanair, they stop operating)

A stricke of their cabin crew and the europen commission that really stop illegal subsidies and Ryanair will be in a very very unpleasant situation

Crusher1
18th Jul 2008, 06:45
I'm confused! Apparently, Ryanair will cease flying between Stansted and Valencia between 4 November and 19 December. If this is the case why (as of just five minutes ago) is it still possible to book flights within this period? (I only tried 7-8 November.) Doesn't the left hand know what the right one is doing or did I miss something?

Seat62K - likewise from EMA! It would be nice if RYR let passengers who have booked sets know what's happening with this.

Seat62K
18th Jul 2008, 07:40
There's what looks like a very worrying contribution to the Ryanair thread on the "Rumours and News" section of the Flight Deck Forum about a sick Ryanair pilot reporting to work because of management pressure. If this is true it would be absolutely disgraceful, not to mention potentially dangerous. Ryanair must be aware that passengers who had concerns about safety would stay away in droves. Let's hope that, if true, this is an isolated incident, bad enough that this would be.

Michael SWS
18th Jul 2008, 10:25
It looks as though Ryanair is still having problems with its website.

I just tried to make a test booking (not to actually travel - god forbid - but as research into additional costs and charges) and halfway through the process received the following message:

An Error Has Occurred

An error condition exists which is preventing you from continuing. You may wish to start over and try again.
If you continue to get this error message, please contact the airline.

Additional details about the error:
An error has occurred. Please try again.




(I love those "additional details"! Very informative. :) )

Seat62K
19th Jul 2008, 07:40
Just seen a post on www.airlinequality.com (http://www.airlinequality.com), dated 16 July, about the cancellation of a 1625 Carcassonne-Stansted flight (not sure whether this was 16 July, too). The contributor states that the cancellation was due to rain (sic!) and that the inbound aircraft diverted to Perpignan. Does anyone know exactly what happened? Thanks!

JulietNovemberPapa
19th Jul 2008, 08:44
(http://www.airlinequality.com/)www.airlinequality.com (http://www.airlinequality.com/)
(http://www.airlinequality.com/)

A stupid site, not least because it has very low number of reviews per airline. For example, it has 372 reviews for Ryanair - not at all representative when it carries 54m. What about Southwest, which carries over 101m? 90 reviews.

JadeGoody
19th Jul 2008, 10:28
Oliww any source??;)

The Real Slim Shady
19th Jul 2008, 11:29
Seat62K

CCF is not the best equipped airport in Europe. the ILS is on runway 10 and in a westerly wind the approach to 28 is a circle to land procedure ( visual pattern).

The runway is 2050 metres long, pretty short for a 737-800 and the approach is steeper than normal 3 degree ILS / visual.

If the cloudbase is lower than 900ft the circling procedure isn't feasible hence the likelihood is that the aircraft will land at the alternate instead.

Weather is not something MOL can control even if some people do think he has Divine powers.

Seat62K
19th Jul 2008, 11:59
Thanks for the information about Carcassone. I suspected that there could be more to this story than meets the eye, but wondered, initally, if this was a case of blaming the weather to avoid compensation under EU rules.
Customers, including presumably the poster on www.airlinequality.com (http://www.airlinequality.com), who lack an understanding of airline operations need to be given more detail about a cancellation like this than just to be told it's due to "bad weather" (accepting that this is all they were told), particularly since, from their own perspective, it's "only raining" (if only to retain some goodwill). Airlines need to realise that keeping an existing customer is probably cheaper than finding a new one (the poster on www.airlinequality.com (http://www.airlinequality.com) said "never again with [Ryanair]"). Sounds like a situation which could've been better handled.

toledoashley
19th Jul 2008, 19:10
I have booked to go to Tenerife in January at the grand cost of £38 return. I have never known anything so resonable for a flight to the Canaries, really is excellent value.

eu01
20th Jul 2008, 08:46
The nonsense-marriage of Ryanair with Microsoft (via Navitaire) went even further. If the slowness of the already-crippled Ryanair website were not enough, now the stage two is coming. Shortly the usage of this site will be virtually impossible without M$'s newest operating system and software. Running Vista and the Internet Explorer, trying to see the route map? Well, your system might be slow, but you are able to do it. Now, try to do it running Firefox on W2k, running Opera on... anything, running anything on Linux... No way, you just see another screen with "sorry you can't".

Microsoft Silverlight may not be supported on this browser.
Review the System Requirements

Operating System ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ IE 7 ¨ ¨ IE 6 ¨ Firef. 1.5 ¨ Firef. 2 ¨ Safari
Windows Vista ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨No ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ No
Win. XP SP2 ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ No
Win. 2000 ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨No ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes** ¨ ¨ No ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨No ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨No
Win. Server2003 ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ No
Mac OS 10.4.8+ (PowerPC) ¨ No ¨ ¨ ¨ No ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes* ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes* ¨ ¨ ¨Yes*
Mac OS 10.4.8+ (Intel-b) ¨ No ¨ ¨ ¨ No ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes ¨ ¨ ¨ Yes

It's just so hopeless. Ryanair keep saying the customers: "Don't like it our way? Go to others. We will not change our rules/ customer relations/ booking systems/ anything". Many passengers do try other options, often finding them. FR's load factors are unsatisfatory, the route development is far from its targets, the profitability is falling. Just due to the fuel prices? Or maybe the once-unquestionable success story is jeopardized by simple obstinacy?

EI-BUD
20th Jul 2008, 10:13
I was reading your post above, I find it next to impossible at times to get bookings done on ryanair.com, it is either so slow or doesnt give the information. I think that the big source of Ryanairs worries around loads etc of late has been this one. Hence the huge discounting, ie tax free. No doubt fuel is a huge headache but the website is less than effective, and all since they had it closed to facilitate the new rules ie total costs to be shown on on page etc.

EI-BUD

Seat62K
20th Jul 2008, 10:34
Have some sympathy for poor MOL, hanging on the line (premium rate £1 per minute) having to endure "LoCost IT Solutions" recorded message ("your call is important to us, please hold for the next available agent.."):}.
But seriously, I also wonder how much business Ryanair is losing as a result of this and exactly how long it will take to get sorted.

MUFC_fan
20th Jul 2008, 10:47
Maybe they are benefitting from it!

If they can't use the internet but can't find any cheap fares like the FR ones they might ring up and book!

£1 a minute and £5 extra each way per pax!:ok:

JulietNovemberPapa
20th Jul 2008, 11:12
In purely load factor terms, FR June 07-June 08 was an average of 81%. In June 07 it was 85%, 84% in June 08. Here's an interesting article:
easyJet still European LCC load factor champion; now also fastest-growing | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2008/07/18/easyjet-still-european-lcc-load-factor-champion-now-also-fastest-growing/)

I haven't personally had any problems accessing or using FR's website at home, but I have at work - but it's quickly sorted.

CorkEICK
20th Jul 2008, 14:24
IMPORTANT REMINDERS! - Please read

NO CHECKED BAGGAGE PERMITTED. STRICTLY ONE ITEM OF CABIN BAGGAGE PER PASSENGER WEIGHING UP TO 10KG WITH MAXIMUM DIMENSIONS OF 55CM X 40CM X 20CM IS PERMITTED. (HANDBAG, BRIEFCASE, LAPTOPS, DUTY FREE ETC MUST BE CARRIED WITHIN YOUR PERMITTED 1 PIECE OF CABIN BAGGAGE). CABIN BAGGAGE MUST CONTAIN NO PROHIBITED ITEMS.

The Real Slim Shady
21st Jul 2008, 08:51
Corky

It has to be written that way to cover the the airports where 2 items of hand luggage aren't allowed. FR actually do allow 2 pieces, handbag and bag, where the airport allows it.

CorkEICK
22nd Jul 2008, 12:19
Hi Slim,

Are you sure there is no change in policy? I travelled on 6 ryanair flights over the last week and did not see any new policy being implemented.



News Release 11.07.08


Ryanair reminds passengers of Cabin Baggage allowances


Ryanair, Europe’s largest and most punctual low fare airline today (11 July) reminded all passengers of its Cabin Baggage allowances in advance of the peak summer travel period.

Each passenger (excluding infants) is permitted to carry one piece of cabin baggage on board (free of charge). It should weigh no more than 10kg and not exceed the maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm. Due to security restrictions, certain items cannot be carried in cabin baggage. We reserve the right to cancel any reservation without refund and deny boarding if a passenger arrives at the boarding gate with more than one item of cabin baggage or an item that exceeds the maximum dimensions. Infants do not qualify for a cabin baggage allowance (although a pram / buggy will be carried free of charge).

Restrictions apply to liquids, gels, pastes, lotions or cosmetics carried in hand baggage

Speaking today, Adrian Dunne, Ryanair’s Deputy Director Ground Operations said:

“We are again facing the busiest time of the year, where airports struggle to cope with the volume of hand baggage carried by some passengers. Ryanair’s simple but generous policy allows passengers to carry one piece of cabin baggage (inclusive) which must weigh no more than 10kg and not exceed the permitted dimensions. We will not allow anybody to exceed these permitted allowances, and will be rigidly enforcing our one bag rule this summer.

Passengers presenting themselves at a boarding gate should be warned, they will not be permitted to travel if they do not comply with this one bag rule.

Skipness One Echo
22nd Jul 2008, 18:25
So if I go shopping in the departure lounge I will be denied boarding? Really?

TSR2
22nd Jul 2008, 19:16
Not if you put your purchases inside your permitted ONE piece of hand baggage.

peter we
22nd Jul 2008, 19:42
I have booked to go to Tenerife in January at the grand cost of £38 return. I have never known anything so resonable for a flight to the Canaries, really is excellent value.

Booked and paid for, doesn't mean you will actually fly. A friend flying from Krakow has just been informed the flight (in 7 days) maybe cancelled.

Almondgrove
22nd Jul 2008, 20:45
Overnight, Ryanair seems to have suspended flights to Krakow from several of UK airports between November and December - that's in addition to the reductions from Stansted announced a few days ago.

Polish press reports that this is as a direct retaliation to Krakow Airport managment refusing to give in to Ryanair's demands to abandon all airport taxes for the duration of "low season".

Can anyone in the know comment on this?

Apparently, Ryanair is considering moving its entire Krakow operation to Katowice.
Well, I'm for sure will be driving to Luton again (looong way) and flying with Easyjet to Krakow direct!:rolleyes:

Just hope my summer flight in a fortnight is safe!!!:sad: ( a wedding ! )

airbourne
23rd Jul 2008, 09:50
Good Luck to the new Head of Communications from Ryanair. 3 weeks in the job and he faced his first grilling from Matt Cooper on Today FM yesterday afternoon in relation to the 'visa electron' and normal visa card charges. Cooper actually asked him how long he was in the job and that he already had the mantra of ryanair.com

How much bad press would you be willing to take for €100k a year?

Crusher1
23rd Jul 2008, 10:06
My flight EMA-VLC on 15/12 is no longer bookable. Despite best efforts I have not been able to get a reply from RYR when I ask if it's been cancelled, which isn't great customer service.

Aisle2c
23rd Jul 2008, 10:09
He'd want to improve on his lying...err Customer Relations ability, along with Matt and the woman contributor, I was laughing my backside off at the idiocy of the stuff he was coming out with.

peter we
23rd Jul 2008, 11:15
Just hope my summer flight in a fortnight is safe!!! ( a wedding ! )

Well its not is it? It maybe cancelled at short notice.

BFS101
23rd Jul 2008, 14:09
We all know how Ryanair love banging on about their excellent statistics regarding baggage, fewest cancellations and on-time departures. Especially comparing themselves to their worse performing competitors.

Well will these winter flights they are cancelling now, though if previously on sale, be included in the statistics for number of cancelled Ryanair flights. Or will they find some loophole to manipulate statistcs, and paint inaccurate reflections of their service levels???

Does official stats for cancelled flights have to be flights cancelled within a certain period before departure etc??

h&s
23rd Jul 2008, 18:35
Good Luck to the new Head of Communications from Ryanair. 3 weeks in the job and he faced his first grilling from Matt Cooper on Today FM yesterday afternoon in relation to the 'visa electron' and normal visa card charges. Cooper actually asked him how long he was in the job and that he already had the mantra of ryanair.com

How much bad press would you be willing to take for €100k a year?


:D
It reminds me the former one, P.Sherrard, one of the nicest guy ever met, but always obliged to say aggresive and controversial things...
Head of communications at ryanair is actually quiet simple: don't have any idea, shut up, and repeat what MOL tell you to say!

100k for that? I guess you could easily decrease by 40/50%

h&s
23rd Jul 2008, 18:37
Btw, why they haven't yet published the annual report for FY08???
Last years it seems to me they published it few days after the result release, and this year, 2 months later, still nothing...

Flyer126
23rd Jul 2008, 19:07
On Monday (21 July) I witnessed something I cannot recall having seen before. Ryanair had two flights departing Seville at the same time (2115), one to Liverpool, the other to Stansted and both departed from the same gate:eek:! There was, understandably, a certain amount of confusion amongst the passengers (for example, one thought the Liverpool flight might be going via Stansted!). As I'm not familiar with Ryanair's operation at Seville it left me wondering whether this happens regularly. Does anyone know? Would it not have made sense for the two flights to be scheduled to leave, say, thirty minutes apart?

h&s
23rd Jul 2008, 20:42
Overnight, Ryanair seems to have suspended flights to Krakow from several of UK airports between November and December - that's in addition to the reductions from Stansted announced a few days ago.

Polish press reports that this is as a direct retaliation to Krakow Airport managment refusing to give in to Ryanair's demands to abandon all airport taxes for the duration of "low season".


What an easy way to make business for Ryanair!
They consider passengers as idiots (eg. "no surcharge", Paris for Beauvais etc), they have incompetent top managers (here, the list is toooooo long: no hedge in an environment of increasing fuel price, stupid revenue management with cheapest fares available 1 month before the departure, opening of a base in BRE, BHD, BOH..., investing and continuing to invest in Aer Lingus which make them loose a lots of money without any hope to merge, new website that is rubbish etc etc), they have very aggresive non sense communication, their business model is based on illegal subsidies and economic exploitation of the cabin crews, but at the end, they tell us that this is up to the airport to compensate for their hundreds of errors!!!

Non sense!!! Well done Krakow!!! Hopefully you'll find a descent airline for the traffic you lost who are not doing hundreds of errors and always ask you to repair it...

peter we
23rd Jul 2008, 21:02
Overnight, Ryanair seems to have suspended flights to Krakow from several of UK airports between November and December - that's in addition to the reductions from Stansted announced a few days ago.

Polish press reports that this is as a direct retaliation to Krakow Airport managment refusing to give in to Ryanair's demands to abandon all airport taxes for the duration of "low season".

Can anyone in the know comment on this?

They are cancelling flights next week, apparently because of this dispute and Ryanair's 'financial difficulties'. Thats a rumour.

lexoncd
23rd Jul 2008, 21:32
Ryanair are simply breaking the Uk law on the pricing of airline seats. The law changed in may 2007 yet only one airline, Ryanair were given an extension to january 2008. Despite this they failed to comply until March 2008.

Since June 25th 2008 they have failed to show taxes and charges. Initially this was shown on page two in small text. Now its in Red but why can't they simply alter the fares to show all charges?

bad system? Bmi baby and Southwest use the same system....

i.e £1 suddenly equals £48.......simple really....

Notice how they initially balmed Microsoft but now blame navitaire....Big lawyers in Seattle...

So why have credit card charges, luggage charges, taxes and check in charges increased by almost 150%......call it what you want but its a fuel surcharge in disguise.

The sooner they may this bunch of cowboys comply with the rules that apply to everyone else the better.

"No hidden costs with Ryanair" according to their spokesman.....Yeah right!!!

Michael SWS
23rd Jul 2008, 21:43
So why have credit card charges, luggage charges, taxes and check in charges increased by almost 150%......call it what you want but its a fuel surcharge in disguise.
Precisely. At least the major carriers are being honest about the surcharge rather than hide it in an ever-increasing number of chargeable extras.

How long before FR introduces a "booking fee" on top of the credit card charges?

Seat62K
24th Jul 2008, 06:43
I see that Air Berlin has a 10 euro "per person and booking" (?) service charge (for reservations made on the Internet) which is not included in the initial price quoted, so it too is presumably breaking the rules.

pwalhx
24th Jul 2008, 07:17
It is quite simple really, with Ryanair you get what is on the tin, if you don't like them don't use them.

Surely everyone knows nowadays that what's on the first page isn't what your going to pay, despite what the regulations say. Do what I do, go through the process and see what the end result is, compare with other airlines, then book whichever flight is cheapest and /or suits your needs.

Constantly going on about surcharges or booking fees from whichever airline (and Ryanair are not alone) will not chnage things one bit.

Seat62K
24th Jul 2008, 07:29
Much of the criticism of Ryanair here and elsewhere comes from prospective customers thinking that their flight is going to cost a lot less than it actually does, once baggage/check in/credit card etc. charges are added. They feel tricked. I think some of this criticism is unreasonable (takes cover at this point!) because, in my view, the expection of such low fares is unreasonable.
Yes, Ryanair's "base" fares (e.g., for travel within the next day or two) can be high but, for the routes I'm familiar with at least, generally this is not the case. I think some historical perspective is called for. I have been flying regularly between the UK and the Spanish Mediterranean for twenty years and, fortunately, still have a record of what the earlier flights cost. In the late '80s I flew mainly on a "seat only" basis using companies like Jetsave and Thomson. A typical July/August return fare was £150. Now remember, that was twenty years ago. When I consider wages/salaries at that time and inflation since (not to mention the cost of jet fuel) the real cost was much more than the same journey today with Ryanair (if booked at the same point in advance). Remember, too, that these seats on charter flights were themselves much cheaper than those on airlines like Iberia.
Perhaps some of the criticism of Ryanair comes from passengers who do not have this historical perspective and do not, therefore, realise how low the cost of air travel now is in comparison with the past.

eu01
24th Jul 2008, 08:06
if you don't like them don't use them
But here EXACTLY is Ryanair's problem. Too many dislike them and the carrier is being unable to fill the planes during the off-peak season to such a degree that would secure enough profitability. As every enterprise, also Ryanair needs customers' loyalty. But according to MOL's style of thinking, the only way to achieve the fast development is being able to offer people the "free flights" and "special prices". There are, obviously, plenty of other means to achieve the customers' loyalty (and to attract new passengers), but MOL disregards them completely. Now, this policy (just prices) can be successful, albeit under some conditions. Namely, you must be able to offer "rock-bottom" prices continuously and cannot afford to rise them. The dramatic rise of fuel costs makes it very difficult at present. I believe if the passengers were treated (cared for) in a better way, they'd be able to "swallow" a moderate rise now. But after years of that "if you don't like us" policy... will they?

geordiejet
24th Jul 2008, 08:11
My favourite part about FR is them bitching about increasing airport charges, when their own charges just go up and up.

Fair enough a lot of charges are avoidable (airport charges are not), but their latest increases mean we need to pay £4for the pleasure of buying a ticket. Yes, it is avoidable, but I've never even seen an electron! PB has also doubled, and baggage fees have pretty much doubled.

I've had current accounts with Barclays, Nationwide, Northern Rock - and I've a joing HSBC account - and they just gave me a Visa/MC debit card by default.

So yes, the plastic fee is avoidable, but only for a very small portion of people, and only for a limited time.

MUFC_fan
24th Jul 2008, 08:19
I have an electron for use on the interent. I use the plane and train quite often and it saves me a fortune on these stupid charges.

Aisle2c
24th Jul 2008, 08:31
Now that fuel prices are starting to come down, will we see Ryanair reduce/abandon some of these ridiculous stealth charges, or, will they leave them there to be added into their profits ?

Michael SWS
24th Jul 2008, 09:08
Now that fuel prices are starting to come down, will we see Ryanair reduce/abandon some of these ridiculous stealth charges, or, will they leave them there to be added into their profits?
Hmm. Tricky one. :)

eu01
24th Jul 2008, 09:11
Now that fuel prices are starting to come down...
Hold your horses, let's wait and see how long this cicle will be, it could be a very short phenomenon, unfortunately.

MUFC_fan
24th Jul 2008, 09:26
People have started to buy less fuel, especially in the UK. If you look down the main street less people are using their cars. I see more full buses and more people walking and cycling, well especially where I live anyway. Its great! I can see the price of fuel dropping as long as we don't have some smart arsed c**t who decides to speculate!:mad:

I think we should be watching the likes of BA who have heavily increade fuel surcharges over the past few months on both passenger and cargo traffic. Its very unlikely they will drop theirs. Unless the papers were to take note - I am sure there may be a small change!

Over the past few motnhs we have certainly seen the power of the people in the UK.

eu01
24th Jul 2008, 11:36
Well, the retreat across the board. Look at this:Ryanair today said it has stopped negotiations to establish a base in Poland because of increases in fees charged to passengers in the country.

PANSA, Poland's national air traffic control authority, wants to increase charges for landing in the country almost 10-fold, Ryanair said today in a statement.

The Dublin-based carrier wants the Polish government to reverse PANSA's decision.

“Ryanair has decided to stop all negotiations with airports in Poland on the development of any bases as this cost increase has made many of the prospective and actual routes economically unviable,” the airline said.

The carrier had been talking with five Polish cities, it said.
Source: irishtimes.com (just published)

peter we
24th Jul 2008, 12:36
Hold your horses, let's wait and see how long this circle will be, it could be a very short phenomenon, unfortunately.

There is an article in WSJ speculating that the fluctuations are down to the very large hedge company that went bust this week. What that will mean with investors buying back into shares (because the oil price has come down and the economy has gone to shit).
The markets are like sheep. They will realise that oil demand has gone down due to the economy collapsing and get back into commodities again as a hedge against the dollar. Which will hammer share prices until they stop buying oil and ..

The fundamentals problems are still there and they are long term. Increasings demand from outside the industrialised nations and no increase in production. Dollar falling due to excessive borrowing and being gradually dumped as the reserve currency.

OliWW
24th Jul 2008, 13:15
I know i might go on again.

I booked to go to Cork from EMA in august. and the flight was on special offer, and there was a advert for a £0 special offer flight... when i went to book it was okay, then when came to confirm the flight, I noticed I had to pay a extra £16 just for booking the flight, and then £8 for checking in at the airport as I will have luggage, and then tax and charges and god knows what else, and then it froze, so by the time i got back onto there slow website at the moment, it was a regular flight, i booked it anyway, but that was another £10, so where as I was planning to spend around £20, it came to £37 in the end... even though the atual seat on the plane was £0 and £9.99 on the way back

Day_Dreamer
24th Jul 2008, 13:30
Not Just Ryanair at Stansted.
From Citywire.
Is this the beginning of the end for low-cost flying?
By Tony Bonsignore | 12:04:05 | 24 July 2008
More worrying news for the budget airlines this morning, with Easyjet announcing it had been forced to severely curtail its growth plans over the coming months.
The Luton-based cheap flight pioneer said it would slash its capacity at Stansted by 12% during the winter months, as well as close its base in Dortmund. Easyjet said its hand had been forced by the high price of oil and the worsening economic climate.
Annual fuel costs have increased by £185m, Easyjet reported.
The announcement comes just weeks after rival Ryanair said it would cut around 250 winter flights from Stansted in a bid to cut spiralling fuel costs.
The key question for investors – and travellers for that matter – is whether this a temporary blip, or the start of something more fundamental.
On the one hand our thirst for low cost travel seems unlikely to subside any time soon. The EU is expanding and its citizens becoming ever more mobile. And with money getting tighter many of us will be turning to the Easyjets of this world as we look to put together cheaper DIY holidays.
Neither should we forget the hundreds of thousands who have bought second homes on the basis that No Frills Air flies daily to an airport just 90 miles away for less than a fiver all in.
And yet…one can’t help but feel that there is something inherently unsustainable and perhaps indecent about flying to the south of France for the day for the cost of an M&S prawn sandwich.
Especially with the dollar cost of a barrel of oil still well into three figures.
And especially given growing concerns over climate change.
Today then, the Money Blog asks for your thoughts on the future prospects for the cheapy airlines. Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of budget air travel? The end of the beginning, even? How would you feel about the return to the days when a plane ticket to the continent cost hundreds - rather than tens - of pounds?
Or is this simply a minor setback in the inexorable growth story of the budget airlines, a trend which has rightly put regular air travel within the reach of the masses?

Seat62K
24th Jul 2008, 15:40
OliWW,
East Midlands to Cork (return, I assume) for £37 - what are you complaining about?! Seems a very reasonable fare to me. (Remember, it's actually £27 plus £10 Air Passenger Duty.)

OliWW
24th Jul 2008, 20:22
At the end of the day im still happy, because I think the service is good by FR, even though you have to pay for everything, i believe there flights are always ontime, aircraft clean and newish, and a happy environment, and i thought that was quite a lot, considering when i go to Dublin sometimes its about £18 all together...

FRying
24th Jul 2008, 22:09
One other loss of revenue for FR in the future will be the subsidies from French airports. A growing row is now under way among local authorities at the fact these authorities gave out so much money to Ryanair with poor returns in terms of quality of service. Also Ryanair did not abide by what had been agreed, not delivering the number of flights that were part of the deals.

I believe this major issue will rise to the point FR will not get money any more for landing on these remote airports which I believe is the cut between profitability and losses.

jimworcs
25th Jul 2008, 07:37
Just for clarity, Ryanair has already been forced to stop charging the so called "wheelchair levy" to disabled passengers. What they do now is incorporate the charge on to all passengers, (and charging far in excess of what it actually costs to provide the service). This is within the law, so will make no difference to Ryanair's income. In accordance with their nasty approach to their passengers they choose to separate out the "charge" on the billing, which is potentially divisive.

farnworth
25th Jul 2008, 07:49
You will recall the original story in which Ryanair denied a gentleman a wheelchair without payment; condemnation followed around the world in the press, some of it in very strong terms.

Just a few weeks later I was medically repatriated via OPO after a bad break. Insurance paid for three seats and assistance but when I got to the airport, Ryanair refused to attend me and refused to supply a wheelchair. I was literally left standing with plaster up my leg, a flapping multiple break and not even a stick. Ryanair demanded that I pass through the airport first and they would take responsibility post security!

I was left with only one option which was to lay down on the concourse floor and refuse to move until the crowd of security guys that gathered forced Ryanair to act. I got a chair, and a ride to the plane in a van. Have not flown with them since.

VanBosh
25th Jul 2008, 11:12
Ryanair dont employ any staff in OPO so it would not have been Ryanair staff who refused you a wheelchair. Obviously it was disgraceful behaviour on the part of the handling agent but in most airports it is the local airport providor who is responsible for providing wheelchair assistance.

Fair play to you for standing up for yourself (no pun intended) though and getting the required treatment.

Sikpupi
25th Jul 2008, 14:03
Von Bosh is right.....its usually the airport who supplies the service. However - they would expect to get some sort of advance notice of same, usually stated at time of booking and the airport is aware of same via the pax manifest. Hope that was done in your case....

Heard of the odd case of a pax arrive and didn't feel like walking to the gate and then ask for a wheelchair. At least the new legislation asks for min 36 hrs notice and therefore airports have the right to refuse these 'lazy' pax.

frfly
25th Jul 2008, 14:53
It really annoys me when Ryanair get slammed in the media for wheelchair treatment. When in actual fact it is either down to the handling agent or the airport. It's not always the handling agent, in most airports a separate sub-contracted company deal with special assistance, and thus it is their responsibility. The airline i.e. Ryanair pass on the information to the agent. Which they do do, in the form of an SSR comment on the Ryanair manifest (if this was requested by the passenger at the time of booking). It is then the responsibility of the handling agent to pass this information onto the subcontracted company.

Many reports recently have been about Ryanair and their handling agents treating wheelchair pax badly, however when you look more closely, and you actually understand the process in depth, you will see and realise it is these subcontracted companies who have lack of staff, or equipment. This is not in the control of FR or the agent in a lot of cases.

Ryanair's treatment of these pax has dramatically changed, and the wheelchair voucher now seems to be being phased out. During the short 25 minute turn around, the passenger is boarded first or seats are reserved for them to board last. This is what should be being done, by all parties, in particular by the agent and the special assistance company.

Seat1APlease
25th Jul 2008, 15:39
Sorry, but to say it is not the airlines fault, but the agent's is simply 100% wrong.

An agent is chosen by, contracted to, and paid for by the airline to act as their representative. They are in a legal sense one and the same. An airline can no more walk away from the failure of its agent than can a company walk away from the negligence of its employees.

If an airline is under obligation to do something then it can either do it itself or pay others to do it, but either way it is responsible.

Facelookbovvered
25th Jul 2008, 15:46
I understood that the airport charged the airline for providing these services and Ryan used to charge the the RPM pax the cost + some, until the court case some time back. We all know Ryanair are a cynical bunch and they know that RPM pax slow down turnarounds, trying to get off a "wheel chair R or C" as they are know in the trade means that you cannot turnaround an aircraft in 25minutes at most places.

RPM =Reduced Personal Mobility
C = Cant walk=lift off
R= Can make the steps but not walk to arrivals

The new regs require airports to provide care from car park to aircraft, and about time too!! i wish they would do the same for aircrew

frfly
25th Jul 2008, 16:02
Again you missed the point, it is not the agents fault in a lot of cases either. It is the poor and mismanaged subcontracted agencies that are used, BY AIRPORTS not by airlines or agents. It is not up to the airline or agent to pick this, they are usually not given a choice. You must also understand, agents and airlines dont have the insurance to deal with this passengers in a lot of cases. Therefore thats why help cannot be provided by anyone but the insured company in the airport. Also, it is other full-service airlines that have to put up with this service, and I have seen much worse treatment on full service carriers than on Ryanair. But as usual, because Ryanair are an easy media target, their issues are always highlighted the most. Im not defending anyone here, I just wish people would look at the bigger picture, instead as always laying the blame on the first person they see, without looking at the service lines.

Jet22
25th Jul 2008, 16:44
May i ask the question to anybody who may have the answer, Why no FR in Turkey, Greece, Cyrpus?

Over the years they have expanded into the North African market (Morocco) so why arnt they in this part of the world. EZY, AB and others take advantage of the market because there is no other competition on certain routes from other LCC (EZY LGW-RHO-LGW springs to mind). Is it because they simply isnt enough 2nd airports that are about 50 miles away from the destination in Greece/Cyprus/Turkey.

rubik101
25th Jul 2008, 17:06
Jet 22, how very cynical of you! There are plenty of airports for RYR to choose from in that part of the world.
Perhaps, as has been pointed out elsewhere, lots of short flights get more bums on seats, hence maximising revenue. Longer flights are only recently becoming the norm for RYR, Tenerife and Morroco, so perhaps in the future you might well see flights to these Eastern destinations.
One reason Greek flights are so paltry is that the Greeks insist all flights touch down in the new and expensive Athens airport before or after going on to any other airport in Greece.
Cyprus is well served by the likes of Monarch and First Choice etc. but to go there also means the aircraft have a maximum of 2 rotations a day. RYR like 4 or even 5 rotations a day per aircraft.

OliWW
25th Jul 2008, 17:15
Thessaloniki springs to mind here, easyjet fly there from LGW, as do BA, I would have thought that STN-SKG would be popular, 2/3x Weekly maybe, or BHX-SKG, as BHX are loosing a SKG flight a week next year...

Kalamata would also be a good choice, down in the south
Preveza and Corfu maybe...

Jet22
25th Jul 2008, 18:32
Cynicil but true:ok:

cesare.caldi
26th Jul 2008, 22:31
I see that Air Berlin has a 10 euro "per person and booking" (?) service charge (for reservations made on the Internet) which is not included in the initial price quoted, so it too is presumably breaking the rules.

If you book AirBerlin flight on Expedia don't pay this service charge :ok:

lexoncd
27th Jul 2008, 17:26
Ryanair still have another 67 aircraft to arrive over the next three years net of planned disposals....that a lot more routes to start when some seem to be closing. Surely you operate your premium routes already so if you've closing them what must the yields be like on those yet to be operated with the new aircraft.

Same problem for easy too.

befree
28th Jul 2008, 07:12
Ryanair have seen most of the profit for April to June gone. They expect to make no profit for the year as a whole. The shares are down over 20% already. Half the cost is now fuel. Ryanair have run out of good luck and no longer have cheap oil hedges. They have so much cash that they are not going broke soon but may never make a full year profit again.

MUFC_fan
28th Jul 2008, 08:29
They have so much cash that they are not going broke soon but may never make a full year profit again.


Companies adapt. FR has pots of hard cash which a lot of airlines are short of. They have the power to change their way of flying. Obviously it would be very hard and they would not be able to make drastic changes but if we look at their route map, we will see that they serve little major international airports, and if so not on a great scale (LGW, MAN tec.)

If they were to expand, which was the origional plan, into the larger airports I am sure most of their routes would work. Add that to the current set of routes that are working and there we are - profit!

Well, thats the idea anyway...

befree
28th Jul 2008, 09:27
If they were to expand,

They have the planes on order to expand. They control the size of the fleet by selling planes. Last year that was very profitable making over 2 million euros more than book price for each plane. Ryanair have some very good profitable routes but finding new routes that would be profitable is going to be hard. Ryanair are going to have more planes then they will know what to do with. Airports will also have a stronger hand as Ryanair need more routes and have parked planes.

Ryanair are also upsetting lots of PAX who have already booked for flights that have been canned. I think it is the start if a downward sprial.

Facelookbovvered
28th Jul 2008, 09:31
The playing field has levelled, other have got their cost down, Ryan have moved to Airports they said the would never fly from BHX,AGP because that where the pax want to fly from, Ryanair wont get golden deals from these airports, they have slower turnarounds, in other words welcome to the real world. you can compete on price alone if your cost base allows you to do so, if your cost are the same as others then other factors come into play and many view Ryanair as the Nasty airline, but fly with them because they are cheap or they fly near to somewhere you need to get to. If Ryanair stop flying these thin routes and/or put the price up you might as well go with someone who wont treat you with utter contempt

This winter empolyees of Ryanair will see the nasty side, remember MOL not only dosen't care about employment regs he doesn't care about pilots even less so cabin crew, there will be huge pressure on costs, it will need only one major crunch and the games over.

eu01
28th Jul 2008, 11:01
Ryanair are also upsetting lots of PAX
They've been constantly upsetting their passengers ignoring them or being offensive especially when something went wrong. Thus, the "devotion" of many (to fly with FR) is going to last only as long as the flight price is unbeatable. Unfortunately, higher fuel costs will be flattening the cost differences, hence... welcome to the real worldRyanair will HAVE TO improve the profitability, e.g. by rising the load factors (what will be difficult in winter) AND rising prices (even more difficult). Obviously they should have taken care of how people associate Ryanair brand name a little bit earlier...

VanBosh
28th Jul 2008, 11:54
higher fuel costs will be flattening the cost differences, hence...


Fuel costs have risen for all airlines so the cost difference will still exist.

I dont believe this will be the end for Ryanair, I just think it will mean the end of starting up whatever routes they want. They will need to focus more on actual demand rather than creating it themselves.

MXP was one airport where they prob could have based 10 planes at once and done well but they wouldnt pay the fee's. I think shareholders would rather see a plane based at MXP and paying 10per pax than at BGY and paying 2 per pax as the yields would easier be 8 higher from MXP.

I doubt MOL would share my opinions!

peter we
28th Jul 2008, 11:56
"If this airline is going to survive and prosper, it's got to double its fares, its got to do what other airlines are doing and cut capacity,'' said Howard Wheeldon, senior strategist at BGC Partners in London.

Ryanair profit falls 85% on fuel prices - Business, Frontpage - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/ryanair-profit-falls-85-on-fuel-prices-1442287.html)

That puts a figure on it, double the fares.

Michael SWS
28th Jul 2008, 12:15
But, presumably, when an analyst suggests that Ryanair double its fares he means the total fare, including all taxes, charges and surcharges? Doubling a 1p headline fare isn't going to make a lot of difference.

I would expect the headline fares to remain low but the stealth charges to start creeping up. It's a fuel surcharge by another name.

Powerjet1
28th Jul 2008, 12:55
Credit card fees can give Ryanair a 1900% profit : Stansted Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/stansted-airport-news-270708.htm)

eu01
28th Jul 2008, 13:05
I doubt MOL would share my opinions!
That is, presumably, a problem too. MOL has his own vision of the business which, very successful until now, might be in need for more radical adjustments (I bet it is). Isn't Ryanair's board too uncompromising to adapt to this new situation? There exists, as said, the necessity to improve e.g. the load factors on some routes and not much room for fare changes. One way to achieve it is by reducing the flights (and that will happen). An other would be to make the services more attractive in order to tempt more customers (and better fill the planes). Hence, isn't it just about time to try something else? For example, why insist on "100% point-to-point only" rule? If you fly to a smallish town, 200.000 dwellers or so, gradually your offer will become unattractive for the people living there if you continue to sell them just London flights and nothing more. Try to select just one airport in the middle of the continent to provide connecting flights. Try it just with several selected flights, just at this one airport. I'm sure this would radically improve the profitability on many "small size" routes. By concentrating some resources on one carefully selected (cheap) airport, you can afford to be more flexible... while you'll have quite a few planes idle this winter, won't you?

But, as I said, MOL is too tenacious in his policies, I'm afraid...

LGS6753
28th Jul 2008, 16:30
There are lots of ready-made new route opportunities about to open up for FR as other airlines drop routes. BA are expected to reduce short-haul services. When they do, FR will be offering 1p fares on a similar route, and picking up the volume.
They will look at opportunities like that wherever in Europe they occur. If Alitalia were finally to collapse, FR would be enhancing their services from CIA and BGY to the destinations once served by AZ, or a field nearby.
I for one don't believe the wheels have fallen off the model yet.

Powerjet1
28th Jul 2008, 16:55
ABTN – The latest air travel & airline news (http://www.abtn.co.uk/Ryanairs_new_zerobag_policy)

MUFC_fan
28th Jul 2008, 16:55
There are lots of ready-made new route opportunities about to open up for FR as other airlines drop routes. BA are expected to reduce short-haul services. When they do, FR will be offering 1p fares on a similar route, and picking up the volume.
They will look at opportunities like that wherever in Europe they occur. If Alitalia were finally to collapse, FR would be enhancing their services from CIA and BGY to the destinations once served by AZ, or a field nearby.
I for one don't believe the wheels have fallen off the model yet.


Remember...there isn't only FR who will take the BA routes, if any are to be lost from LGW (which I expect as LHR has a 'use it or lose it' policy) then U2 will compete on the EXACT same route which will probably be more effective.

If Alitalia were to go (which I doubt), U2 again will be on the hunt offering services from MXP which are EXACT route duplication. Not to mention Air One who would be the big benefactors as they move into the long-haul.

Ryanair do have a good model that works well in a healthy economy but when it comes to the crunch - they struggle more:

1. Not a huge business base
2. Rely a lot on seasonal traffic
3. Don't serve business airports very much
4. Have a lot more seats to fill than other carriers
5. Don't have a large commited customer base because of their lack luster service

When we come out of the troubled economy, which I have no doubt we will do, the airline will prosper and they have the money to keep them going through this period.

eu01
28th Jul 2008, 17:03
They will look at opportunities like that wherever in Europe they occur.
(...)
I for one don't believe the wheels have fallen off the model yet.
In my view Ryanair-preferred sector of the point-to-point market is already saturated. Surely, the collapse of Alitalia would give a boost to Ryanair operations in the region, but can they build their future on such kind of speculations only?

Let's see Ryanair's view on the current situation. A short quote from the new presenation: "(we) plan to double traffic and profits by 2012". And as cited by the press: "Ryanair will respond as always with lower fares and aggressive pricing in order to continue filling its seats". A delusion, dear gentlemen! Nothing new, this remedy will not work any more. When the demand weakens, lowering the fares is not the only one factor that should be considered. Want to make the route between, say, Haugesund in Norway and Bremen in Germany profitable? Haugesund has just 30 thousand inhabitants. The planes on such a route can only be filled by giving these people the opportunity to change in BRE and continue towards e.g. Italy or France. Why not give the passengers from Finnish Tampere or Polish Wroclaw some destinations in Spain via HHN, or maybe Czechs twice-a-week connecting flights to Portugal? It's not unthinkable to charge them €10 or so for making this connection viable, it could work. The policy of "aggresive pricing" is in current situation simply not enough.

mika3
28th Jul 2008, 17:04
New routes from Dusseldorf Weeze?

News - 2008-07-28 Ryanair (http://www.theairdb.com/news/2008-07-28-ryanair.html)

EI-BUD
28th Jul 2008, 17:58
alot of chat about Ryanair challenges after the announcement of profit declines today and future outlook.

This is an opportunity for Ryanair, they will strip out other costs to become even more lean an operation. Yes there are challenges but the hedging holiday will soon be over for its competitors and Ryanair is best placed to weather the storm due to a strong bank balance and a fast acting management team. This will be an opportunity for MOL to buy lots of shares cheap in the company and these will grow in value as the company rebounds.

Furthermore, there are loads of opportunies in many of Ryanairs markets, they have barely touched the business community in many countries, ie penetration of primary airports, so desperate times will force MOLs hand on this.

As regards a comment that I read above saying that in a challenging economy Ryanair struggle, this has not been the case. Ryanair have progressed the most in challenging times. In hard times people have less money and hence are more price conscious so they will often be led to Ryanair rather than the more expensive competition.

Ryanair will continue to grow and meet its objectives of size and volume by 2012.

I think think that things will be a lot clearer when we get through the winter?

JadeGoody
28th Jul 2008, 18:07
EU1 dont forget that Haugesund is located 85 km from Stavanger, and 120km from Bergen!

PAXboy
28th Jul 2008, 18:32
befreeRyanair are also upsetting lots of PAX who have already booked for flights that have been canned. I think it is the start if a downward sprial.
Pax can be upset but there are enough of them. This is NOT the downward spiral - for they will find new ways to save money and make mooney. For an that decide they will never fly RYR again, there is a new generation of pax along every year that want to spend less money. They have pre-eminent status and visibility. Expect them to continue.

Charlie Roy
28th Jul 2008, 19:47
Ancona
Birmingham
Dublin
Faro
Gothenburg
Manchester
Riga
Santander
Berlin-Schoenefeld
Tenerife
Oslo

Seat62K
28th Jul 2008, 19:58
It's interesting that there have been no comments on the abtn.co.uk link above (post 2211). The idea of "zero bag" flights is intriguing and is, to a degree, a logical outcome of the airline's encouragement of cabin baggage only/web check in. On the other hand, I would imagine that a lot of income comes from checking in bags. The idea that a premium might be charged for "zero bags" flights is risible: on what basis could you charge more? The article mentions faster turnarounds and less congestion. The opposite might be true if more people try to take luggage into the cabin because it cannot go in the hold. I can't see passengers paying a premium for this (but their employers might....). Interesting, though, that this would seem to indicate Ryanair's growing interest in business travellers (evidenced too, perhaps, by the plan to introduce check-in machines). Now, a frequent flyer programme - that might take off......(and, yes, I know, the "old" Ryanair had one!).

peter we
28th Jul 2008, 20:33
I fail to see the benefit of quicker turnaround. Why would business travellers care about that? And are any of Ryanair destinations viable business destinations?

Sikpupi
28th Jul 2008, 20:41
I can't see the point in getting rid of hold baggage????? First of all...it money for old rope for Ryanair. With a 40 minute checkin close... there is plenty of time for the bags to be reconciled and put on baggage trolleys.

AND...it couldn't be many airports whereby Ryanair pay 'per baggage handler'. This baggage handling is included usually in their 'airport charges (!)'...so they couldn't expect to make savings on utilisising a few less baggage handlers!!! Same for Checkin Desks and forcing people to use On-Line Checkin. They are not paying per 'Checkin-in Girl'......!! Maybe at the major airports (all 3-4 of them!) they have Checkin Desk costs ..but the majority of their airports do not! So going down this route of NO BAGS is not a cost saving excercise....

Personnally - I feel they could save Millions by saving on wasted newspaper advertising space on full page ads slagging off all and sundry ...or even advertising fares at 1c followed by '+ Taxes' and 'Trms & Conditions apply' eg (Travel on Tues before 10am and return on Mondays after 10pm ...oohh and book by midnight tonight!). A waste of paper .....at least the Newspapers loves Ryanair ...ttey're making money from them I hope.

Crusher1
28th Jul 2008, 20:53
After much chasing about my booked and confirmed tickets RYR have finally agreed that all flights from VLC are cancelled for 6 weeks Nov-Dec and tell me I will get a refund.

There is nothing on their web site about this.

Would I have been offered a refund had I not been able to tell "customer services" exactly what was happening with these routes? Probably, but I suspect very much nearer the date when finding an alternative may prove difficult. My impression was that they wanted me to accept a flight to a substitute airport, a refund was the last option offered.

Being a member of PPRuNe obviously has it's advantages.......

peter we
28th Jul 2008, 21:41
Ryanair withdraws 30% of planes from Stansted - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4351005.ece)

lexoncd
28th Jul 2008, 22:00
In simple terms the market has changed. In the way the market provided an opportunity for Ryanair it has now changed so much so that Ryanair must review their offering to the market.

They now need to be upfront on all charges and force others to do likewise. if they do as they say they will win other wise adios mol....

peter we
28th Jul 2008, 22:06
They are going for broke with a price war

Ryanair heads for red over Michael O'Leary price war - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4419506.ece)

Mr O'Leary said: “If there is not going to be growth in demand we have to take share from our competitors.”

However, the combination of increased supply, falling demand brought about by worsening economic conditions and high costs has worried analysts. One said: “Creating a price war will help drive some carriers out of business but this is a very high-risk strategy because Ryanair is blowing up its own business in the process.”

Facelookbovvered
29th Jul 2008, 03:06
MOL will soon be history, that said a more customer focused Ryanair (like Southwest in the US) would be a much bigger threat to the other operators, you can have new aircraft, run them on time, but if you continue to treat your customers like shit, some will stick and after a while the whole operation get a sort of smell thats not pleseant to be around.

Lets hope is dash for market share is better thought out than his stock buy in Aer Lingus or his thoughts on oil price futures, fast becoming a joke me thinks

pee
29th Jul 2008, 11:28
To my mind, such a price war in the current situation it's not only a very high-risk strategy, it's simply insane. Moreover, a campaign like that would not be a shock nor surprise to anybody, as FREE fligths are being advertised almost constantly. MOL's possible efforts to dazzle the public by further controversies or personal arrogance are doomed as well, we've seen it before, we almost expect it to happen again in a next statement or during a press conference. The only thing we do not expect him to do is, as Facelookbovvered put it, the creation of a "more customer focused Ryanair". So, maybe, dear MOL, you can impress us [only] by doing just that?

Btw. I'm in favour of those connecting flights. With the current fuel prices, I don't have any hopes for a direct low-cost connection from Finland to Spain. I pay double the single fare to get South via Hahn or Bremen. Many thousands more would do the same, they just fear to proceed without any guaranty to be actually delivered there. It's where the "hidden" sources of potential passengers really are.

FR195W
29th Jul 2008, 11:33
Today two more aircraft for the NRN Base has been announced. Eleven new destinations starting at the end of October.

Following new destinations:

- Ancona
-Berlin Schönefeld
-Birmingham
-Dublin
-Faro
-Göteborg
-Manchester
-Oslo
-Riga
-Santander
-Teneriffa-Sued

Greets, FR195W

Silver Tongued Cavalier
29th Jul 2008, 11:39
Looks like the City boys have finally realised they can take whatever comes out of O'Leary's mouth with a pinch of salt. :}


RYANAIR is taking a high-stakes gamble to keep low air fares after Michael O'Leary's bet on fuel prices backfired spectacularly.

The airline will cut ticket prices by more than 10pc this winter in a desperate bid to keep passenger numbers up, despite the deepening recession.

It marks a dramatic reversal of strategy at the airline, which just two months ago said it would raise fares by 5pc this year to compensate for record oil prices.

Ryanair now plans to absorb the massive oil rises itself and continue to push fares down. The strategy could mean the airline loses as much as €60m next year.

The stock market reacted with fury to the apparent u-turn, and repaid Ryanair by wiping €1.2bn from the airline's share price in just 10 minutes yesterday.

Analysts who advise investors on their Ryanair holdings were largely unimpressed by the move.

"For them to have changed tack in such a short space of time does create a real crisis of confidence," one of those analysts said. "It looks as if they gave us misleading information in June, and that's not going down well."

One of Europe's most respected aviation analysts, ABN Amro's Andrew Lobbenberg, added that Ryanair's guidance could now be taken "with a pinch of salt".

The airline's latest gamble comes after its punt on fuel spectacularly backfired. The company failed to secure contracts to buy fuel at the $100-mark last year, believing prices would fall. Oil has since topped the $145 mark, leaving Ryanair massively exposed.

It was estimated last night that this cost the company potentially hundreds of millions.

In the three months to June 30 alone, Ryanair's fuel rocketed 93pc to €367m. The airline has now put in place contracts to buy 90pc of its September fuel at $129, and 80pc of fuel for October to November at $124.

Chief executive Michael O'Leary, who saw €54m of his personal wealth evaporate in the stock-market mauling, last night admitted he got it wrong.

"There's no doubt I was overly optimistic two months ago, and, I can promise, you won't see that again while I live and breathe," he said.

Airlines across the world who have been losing passengers to growing economic pressures have responded by raising prices in an attempt to stay afloat.

But Ryanair has opted to go down the opposite route and will instead launch an aggressive new low-fares drive to entice customers. "We did this [massive sales] after 9/11, after the Madrid bombings, after both Gulf wars -- and we're doing it again now," Mr O'Leary added.

"We've been preparing for this downturn for the last 12 months, that's why we've got bundles of cash in the bank."

However, some industry experts last night poured scorn on Ryanair's strategy, insisting the airline needed to "get real" and deal with rising oil prices by raising fares, rather than burning through shareholder cash.

"Ryanair are taking a gamble here alright," Davy's analyst Stephen Furlong said. "The idea is that by keeping up their growth, profits will eventually come back to where they were.

"That can only happen if oil falls, or if competitors go bust and it becomes 'last man standing'.

"In the long term, I think it's the correct strategy, but it doesn't work well in the short-term."

Ryanair's Europewide price slashing will kick off in the coming weeks, with massive sales promised by the airline.

Deputy chief executive Michael Cawley told the Irish Independent that as many as 20pc of all Ryanair seats could be "free" this winter, up from between 10 and 12pc last year.

Record numbers of seats will also have taxes and charges subsidised, he added. To keep costs down, Ryanair is also planning to trial its first "baggage-free" flights.

- Laura Noonan


Ryanair's fuel fiasco forces new fare gamble - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanairs-fuel-fiasco-forces-new-fare-gamble-1442586.html)

Morbid
29th Jul 2008, 12:09
They´ve no choice. If Ancillary income forms 20+% of your revenues and even more of your profit then you have to keep the pax numbers up whatever way you can...

... Just suprised MOL hasn´t put a positive spin on things somehow :bored:

ORAC
29th Jul 2008, 12:20
Maybe he already has. Evening Standard: Ryanair's gamble may not be so crazy after all. (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23522876-details/Ryanair%27s+gamble+may+be+not+so+crazy+after+all/article.do)

Seat62K
29th Jul 2008, 12:29
If people in the "City" are critical of Ryanair's tactics, I think that gives me sufficient reason to side with MOL:}. Remember, these are, collectively, the people who have brought our economies to the edge of recession through their wreckless behaviour (for which some of them gained handsome bonuses, which they won't, presumably, pay back now the true value of the deals they negotiated has emerged). They seem, in part, too, to be responsible for the high cost of aviation fuel. Stick to your guns, Michael!

Todders
29th Jul 2008, 12:31
Of course he will can see it already...

RyanAir the only airline cutting cost to help you the cash strapped public.

Whats next he'll be asking for customer loyalty .

BOAC
29th Jul 2008, 12:39
I'm sure MOL can ride the nervous twitches of the City 'Red-Braces' panickers.

As ORAC's link says, every pax RYR carry on route with any competition is one less fare for the competition. QED.

Romeo India Xray
29th Jul 2008, 13:04
Regardless of our love/loathing relationship with MOL he has proven his business acumen time and time again. Southwest's Herb is another guy who has ridden storms that have killed off the majors.

The business model is fundamentally sound and FR is one airline with enough "fat" to see off the worst winter cold spells that could be thrown at them.

Did MOL make a mistake? Sure. Will it sink FR? Doubt it. Will FR come out of this in a better position than the rest of the pack? Almost certainly!

My only worry is when they will try to pinch just that little bit more from the crews who already have been whittled down to the bone.

As for the shares, MOL can prop almost anything up with his spin - come to think about it, maybe he should get a job with New Labour when he eventually steps down. lets face it, they need someone like him!!

Silver Tongued Cavalier
29th Jul 2008, 13:17
So oil is at $125 a barrel, and O'Leary wants to charge 5 quid a seat to Paris over the winter?? Sure he'll stimulate demand, fill the B738 with opportunists who wouldn't normally travel that day. But he won't cover his operating costs. So thats his Masterplan????? :uhoh:

BA , Air France etc can still charge a premium which will go further to covering their trip fuel costs, a B737 with a biz cabin has the same fuel bill as a B737 with 5 quid seats with no pockets.

O'Leary is now huffing he will just burn through his cash pile and wait for all the others to go bust, that certainly is a BIG gamble!!! Not for me!!

Romeo India Xray
29th Jul 2008, 13:27
You are missing the point that MOL & co know the cost base VERY well (with one obvious exception). .... thus they know how much each sector will cost.

Yield management is used to get a return from that flight. FR can afford to do that for a long time at marginal profit or possible marginal loss. Either way, it is FR that will come out on top - they have reserves that other just dont.

boyzinblue
29th Jul 2008, 13:35
Ryanair must have sorted the problems they had with Weeze Airport for them to get 2 new aircraft...or as mentioned previously they need airports to take their new aircraft.
Dublin will be interesting with Aerlingus into Düsseldorf - I thought this route would have come much sooner.

Bearcat
29th Jul 2008, 13:37
R IXray you have it one.....MO'L and his hench men I believe made a balls of their fuel policy. Also they have put themselves into a corner re we will never charge fuel surcharges.....I believe thes times as against post 911 the stakes are so much higher and when you have the city boys off side it make things harder. The one thing that has shafted their share price is the short sellers that are making a kings ransom. They knew they were going short no matter. I think and lets try and park the MO'L issue, the company will come out of this. How strong they are in 5 years time will be interesting. If they are hurdling from crisis to crisis then its game over.....I think now is the making of them and let no one doubt how valuable their 30% stake in Aer Lingus is......I note BA/Iberia are talking. Consolodation is kicking off. Another concern is the constant arrival of new aircraft.

befree
29th Jul 2008, 13:47
MOL may be able to fill plane by running them at a massive loss but at some point they will need to make a profit again. As soon as they charge £50 each way the pax numbers will drop off. Oil is never going to be $20/barrel and you have got to charge a fare price to make a profit. MOL is killing all the airlines.

Lord Lardy
29th Jul 2008, 13:52
think now is the making of them and let no one doubt how valuable their 30% stake in Aer Lingus is

The difference with BA/Iberia is however that the possibe merger has the support of both boards. With Aer Lingus and Ryanair they don't nor will they. The investement in Aer Lingus was another monumental disaster. A write down of 90 million in one year. With Aer Lingus having nearly a billion in the bank along with valuable LHR slots, coupled with the fact that there is room for futher cost cutting in EI should it be required, means he will be waiting a long time for circumstances to change there. Ryanair have hit the bottom in terms of cost cutting and with aeroplanes being thrown at them from boeing, it is only adding to the problem. I do believe them when they will be one of the best placed carriers after the storm. However like all airlines they need to drop the arrogant streak, which incidently has got them into this mess in the first place and consider their shareholders. This table tells it's own story bearing in mind that Ryanair don't pay a dividend. Now just consider you are someone with some money lying around and bought shares in the company this time last year. Historically Ryanair has alway had alot of small time investors trying to get into the wheeling and dealing game. Today your investment would have dropped by over 50%. And then you pick up the paper and read the journalists talking about the company gambling with fuel prices and losing knocking 1.2 billion off the value of the company in just 10 minutes yesterday according to one business analyst. You wouldn't be a happy camper.

Share Price€ 2.45 Change Today-€ 0.0652 Week High€ 5.7752 Week Low€ 2.38

Maude Charlee
29th Jul 2008, 14:08
Bet his crews who participate in the company share scheme are absolutely chuffed to bits to see their fortunes get p***ed up the wall by Micky Mouth.

Be interesting to see how he manages to fill seats when his workforce head out the door.

Looks like his long-promised bloodbath is going to be a little closer to home than he expected.

Just a spotter
29th Jul 2008, 14:19
Oil price in 6 months? Who knows.

It is still FAR, FAR to early to say whether RYR was right to hedge or not. If prices retreat below $100 per barrel then it will be seen as an act of genius. If it returns to above $140 then it will seriously hurt. Yes they have experienced a drop off in margin due to the high fuel price, please highlight one airline that has not in the current environment.

Remember, that airlines who hedge by signing future price contracts will be bound into purchasing that fuel at the agreed price even if the price goes below the agreed price (unless of course they stump up cash now to buy options).

JAS

eu01
29th Jul 2008, 15:49
Booking System Temporarily Unavailable

The Ryanair.com booking system is currently unavailable due to essential system maintenance.
We apologise for the inconvenience caused by this temporary system outage
Did anyone calculate the amount of losses caused by the "upgraded" software?

Edit
Shshsh... now the page is trying to show taxes as well :}

Second edit
Nope, the task of showing fees and taxes appears to be absolutely too ambicious. Now the booking system is completely jammed again...

An Error Has Occurred

An error condition exists which is preventing you from continuing. You may wish to start over and try again.
If you continue to get this error message, please contact the airline.

peter we
29th Jul 2008, 16:16
He's trying to buy loyalty by selling seats off cheap and losing money in the process.

What he's going to do is lose money. 100% of an unprofitable market isn't a sensible plan.

Artie Fufkin
29th Jul 2008, 16:56
He should get excellent customer loyalty with this
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE&feature=related)

jupilair
29th Jul 2008, 17:22
Silver Tongued Cavalier exactly it's really a great strategy.
You seem a bit lost, I will explain you something.
For the moment there is an average of 10 passengers by flight not showing up at the airport, mostly those pax never reclaim the tax that they have paid(+- 15 €) but at the same time Ryanair doesn't have to pay those tax to the airport so it's directly in there pocket.
Yeah ok on one flight it's only 150 € but if you multiply by the number of Fr flight by day (1000) it's becoming more interesting : 150.000 €, in one year more than 50,000,000 €.
So here is the point, if the ticket is really cheap people don't care not to show up at the airport( I am pretty sure that a lot of persons here already took a Fr ticket without showing up, for my part 5 times) but if you raised the price everybody will show up because they don't want to loose 100 €.
So in conclusion cheap ticket --> flight revenue just enough to pay the fuel but ancillary revenue with a lot of zeros.
Expensive ticket -- >flight revenue bellow the fuel bill and no ancillary revenue.

I hope it's help you to understand the strategy Silver Tongued Cavalier.

Have a good evening.

45989
29th Jul 2008, 17:26
You reap what you sow.
Seems the "city lemmings" have finally seen the light.
The Mullingar K*****r never had any clothes among his peers anyway.
Artie sums it up well
AMDG Miicko!!!.......the real one,not the hairy camel twit either!

Silver Tongued Cavalier
29th Jul 2008, 17:41
Lets keep this thread about our Armchair-CEO opinions on Ryanair, their share price, and their U-turn on fares this winter. Not about MOL.

I know alot of pax are getting cleverer about Ryanair and their extra charges, and now don't pay one bean more.

jupilair - That really is an GREAT strategy. Sell all the tickets at 5 quid, hope for no shows, then pocket the tax. Genius. That'll turn things around. Inform Warren Buffett immediately. Seriously though, I do understand about ancillary revenue, but I believe even it when combined with very low fares , is not enough to cover the costs.

cesare.caldi
29th Jul 2008, 17:47
Thursday Ryanair press conference at Bologna BLQ with MOL. Probably will be annunced new routes and/or the move of some flights from Forli to Bologna.

eu01
29th Jul 2008, 17:52
move of some flights from Forli to Bologna
Forli Airport was one of the candidates for a base, wasn't it? Did it become too expensive for FR now?

BEagle
29th Jul 2008, 19:39
But Ryanair has opted to go down the opposite route and will instead launch an aggressive new low-fares drive to entice customers. "We did this [massive sales] after 9/11, after the Madrid bombings, after both Gulf wars -- and we're doing it again now," Mr O'Leary added

Yes, but those enticements worked because his clients wanted to travel and could afford to at Ryanair prices. Whereas the business travellers chose to reduce their travel needs, irrespective of the cost.

But now his clients have other factors to worry about. Such as petrol prices, gas and electricity prices and food prices. So the low cost clients now have far less 'play' money available and will simply be unable to afford to fly anywhere whilst they're wondering how to pay the gas bill.

A few quid off the 'price' of a Ryanair ticket won't be much use if you can't even afford to drive to the airport.......

the grim repa
29th Jul 2008, 19:49
he is now gambling with the companys existence.hey no problem mick,as long as the shareholders are happy to see you **** it up royally once again,then that is cool.what happens if the masses do not have the money to buy ever increasingly priced flights with no service and heaps of abuse.the anticipated downfall of all europes airlines and the fuel price drop do not happen.factors that are not unrealisitic.well what the hell,it's somebody elses money anyhow,right micko!!!!

S78
29th Jul 2008, 19:56
How do you reduce the air fare on a £0.01 ticket?




S78

Maude Charlee
29th Jul 2008, 20:19
Quite right Beagle.

Unless all the hotels are going to sell beds at £10 a pop, car hire companies daily hire at £5, restaurants give away free food and banks offer ridiculous improvements in the exchange rate, then free flights are something of a pointless offering for the leisure traveller likely to consider using Ryanair.

And as for his ancillary revenue, FR may well do quite nicely out of it at the moment, but I seriously doubt that the staus quo is going to continue with regard to this kind of spending.

The man is perilously close to commiting the most spectacular form of commercial suicide.

jupilair
29th Jul 2008, 20:21
S78
I think mainly what will be reduce is the earning by effective passenger from 42 to 40 €. The fact is that they still need to reach the quota of passengers they bring to all destinations all over europe otherwise they loose the subventions given by local tourism agencies.

Steviec9
29th Jul 2008, 21:43
Edit
Shshsh... now the page is trying to show taxes as well :}

Second edit
Nope, the task of showing fees and taxes appears to be absolutely too ambicious. Now the booking system is completely jammed again...



Worked OK for me this evening, if fiendishly sloooow still and it showed taxes. Booked a few £19.99 return tickets London-Ireland between now and March 09. Had to pay £8 'handling fee' (which I agree is outrageous when banks are stating a transaction cost of around 50p). However, Halifax in UK offer a Visa Electron Card and I signed up for one today to avoid even these charges in future, or until Ryanair increase charges for Electron bookings... Still, £13.99 inclusive each way is still a great deal.

cesare.caldi
29th Jul 2008, 21:52
Update MOL Italian tour:

Thursday 11:00 Ryanair press conference with MOL at BLQ
Thursday 14:30 Ryanair press conference with MOL in Milan
Thursday 15:00 Ryanair press conference at Forli with Bridget Dowling

MOL is everywhere.... :eek:

h&s
29th Jul 2008, 22:01
New base at Bologna

cesare.caldi
29th Jul 2008, 22:17
New base at Bologna New base or new airport in Ryanair network? Source?

drnick384
29th Jul 2008, 23:31
jupilair - That really is an GREAT strategy. Sell all the tickets at 5 quid, hope for no shows, then pocket the tax. Genius.I agree Silver Tongued Cavalier the majority of no shows are the pax who get the free flights taxes and charges included or 1 cent and no taxes, BTW jupilair pax don't claim taxes back from ryr because there is a taxes reclaim fee which just happens to be the same or slightly more than the tax

Facelookbovvered
30th Jul 2008, 02:31
Ryanair: the low shares airline

MOL take what you've got and make it work

Facelookbovvered
30th Jul 2008, 02:49
Great, apart from one small detail........... from next year APD is to be axed and is to be replaced by a tax on each departure, empty or full, this will at a stroke remove the millions that MOL pockets each year (by not giving a refund of tax) and put it in Gordons pocket or who ever takes his job, for me i'd be happy to see the back of both of them, everyone thought Gordy was great until the going got tough same for MOL, he'l be gone by Xmas (both)

Michael SWS
30th Jul 2008, 08:32
...put it in Gordons pocket or who ever takes his job, for me i'd be happy to see the back of both of them...
This is not the place for expression of personal political opinions. Let's discuss the problems being faced by Ryanair and O'Leary without such point-scoring (which will, in any case, mean very little to many non-British contributors and readers).

geordiejet
30th Jul 2008, 09:00
I think he is very wise. Yes, the fuel situation FR are in isn't the best (or will it be?) but they will come through tops.

People are price sensitive. They will go for the cheapest option. Yes people may spend less on holidays, but people will still travel. UK domestic tourism is up, and FR have a good range of domestic routes in the UK - more than BA. Not to mention flights to DUB from most major UK airports (cheap weekend gettaways).

I can see where they are coming from - by lowering the prices, and getting people on your flights (and not the competitions'), you push the competitors toward going bust. When they do (not that I believe any major EU airline will), you get rid of the competition, people have less choice, you charge more - and profits increase. Once you top up the cash stockpiles you burned through.

So althought I don't see the competition being elimiated - I see people making the switch to FR based on the lower prices.

Facelookbovvered
30th Jul 2008, 09:20
:8 Its not a polictical point, its about two individuals, both who have been revered in the past and are known internationaly, that some how now seem old hat. In fact i would go further, the common term "Stealth tax" was coined as a result of the deceitful way that Gordon Brown extracted money from the British tax payers through hiden charges and the fine detail of his budget papers, whilst all the time pretending to be doing right by the people of Great Britain. MOL likeswise is a master of all things that are deceitful, wheelchair levvy,reduction from 20k to 15k (because its what passenger want), credit card fee per pax per sector, sure many other now do the same, but by and large they follow MOL lead

So lets have some feed back from other Pprunners? who else thinks that they are Brothers in arms when it comes to deceit?

I don't dislike Ryanair or its employees,its MOL who IMHO i think has done damage to the industry, he has really got the green lobby going with his headline line fares of £0.01p, the churlish bye bye whoever on the side of his aircraft and the treatment of those in his employ, either way time will tell

I'll get me tin hat

eggc
30th Jul 2008, 09:25
Dublin a cheap weekend !! You having a laugh right ?? You need a re-mortgage to buy a pint of Guiness.

allanmack
30th Jul 2008, 11:23
Was over in Dublin a few months ago - Guinness the same price as in London but sure tasted better!

Code 100
30th Jul 2008, 11:28
And how much is a Guinness in London? Not cheap I bet!

Day_Dreamer
30th Jul 2008, 12:40
Why Not
Do You have money to burn.
Or are you just one of those who believes everything that you read, and still believes in the tooth fairy ?
Good flight, new aircraft well maintained, punctual, nice crews.
Cheap flights to regional airports with good onward communications.
Just had my first 2 trips with Ryanair which were better than many legacy carriers.

BA are cutting back flights by as much as 25% so less choice Europe wide.
Ryanair can pick up more passengers there, and have the ability to do so.

kingston_toon
30th Jul 2008, 12:43
Another £1 "no taxes" seat sale has just gone live, with loads of routes not normally covered by this type of promo (Kaunas, Brno etc). But...

...what is the point...

...when...

...the bl**dy (I want to use stronger wording here) website simply CANNOT cope. Bad enough that it can now only search one day at a time, but even that seems too much, and all I'm getting is "network error" followed by "network error". I'm getting to the fares screen maybe one attempt in 10.

To me, it's clear - the number one thing Ryanair need to fix is the website! Without it, they're nothing.

JulietNovemberPapa
30th Jul 2008, 12:46
Flew FR BRS-DUB-BRS yesterday. Great flights, on time, decent price. Both at least 3/4 full. I don't buy priority boarding and I nowadays don't bother to queue much - it's annoying and tiring - and I still get the seat I want.

virginblue
30th Jul 2008, 13:16
We can expect more of this, I guess - since MOL has to concentrate on his own company rather than taking about the competition: He had his mouth shut last week by a German court at the request of airberlin who obtained an injunction against MOL. He is no longer allowed to say that airberlin is on the brink of collapse.

Seljuk22
30th Jul 2008, 13:20
How many aircrafts could be in Bologna? I think only 2 or 3 because Bologna is not so interesting like Rimini, Pisa or Florence and it is not so far from Milan, Verona and Venice which are also Ryanair-airports. Italy is a very interesting market but FR should go to Rome or Naples. Til now there is no competion with easyjet in this two big cities.

Are there any information about the Bologna Base and which/how many routes will come?

eu01
30th Jul 2008, 13:35
...the bl**dy (I want to use stronger wording here) website simply CANNOT cope.
I think MOL is not yet ready to sue his partners (Navitaire rather than Microsoft) for all these losses, but such a decision is just a question of time.

PPRuNe Pop
30th Jul 2008, 15:37
Please do not allow yourselves the dubious distinction of letting this thread lose definition or make silly childish remarks.

Ryanair do not deserve that.

Keep it on topic or some of you will have to find another playground.

Btw. I recently purchased two tickets to Prestwick for a total cost of £44. That is a deal in anybody's language. NO charges for the flight - zero!

Please continue.

AA&R mods

Alvechurch
30th Jul 2008, 16:20
I've got a funny feeling that in 12 months time, one or two airline CEO's will be telling their shareholders 'we had the right strategy to see off Ryanair but unfortunately we went bankrupt before we could prove it'. ;)

missterrible
30th Jul 2008, 18:00
I've got a funny feeling that in 12 months time, one or two airline CEO's will be telling their shareholders 'we had the right strategy to see off Ryanair but unfortunately we went bankrupt before we could prove it'.

Only one CEO talks about seeing anyone off.
Only one CEO talks down any other company.
Only one CEO gleefully predicts the demise of other companies.

2Planks
30th Jul 2008, 18:51
How about a comparison with another industry? Look at the supermarket trade and the 2 stores in the UK that are rapidly increasing turnover are: ALDI and LIDL - in the Grocery trade - the 2 LoCos. Brits will always want to go on holiday but if they can cut back on the cost by booking a cheap villa in Spain (of which there is a glut) and book cheap flights then they will. Personally I wouldn't want to be over exposed to Caribbean or similar long haul destinations.