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frfly
29th Jul 2009, 11:31
I think EDI may get a lot of old PIK city routes, ie Budapest, Torp etc. These load factors should be higher into the capital, PIK might see an increase in bucket and spade flights.

PIK = outbound tourism
EDI = inbound tourism

Thats just a guess but I reckon when the full timetable gets published in the next month or so we will still see 4 based A/C in EDI, but with a mixture of old PIK routes.

Dont know if that is the case with EDI, as AGP, ALC, PMI, KRK were all operated before by GSM and EZY.



racedo
29th Jul 2009, 11:44
Will FR sell what they have in Aer Lingus? It seems clear they don't want a merger, but does that rule out other airlines? Such as Lufthansa - for example...

FCC

No real reason to sell stake as already paid for.

They couldn't just start selling a million shares here and there because as a major shareholder all of this has to be disclosed to Stock Exchange and selling all would really have to be to one buyer.

LH has its own problems with its intra European market dropping by 5% plus. I don't see what EI could offer LH that they haven't got already.

djp
29th Jul 2009, 11:49
Dos anyone know if it is possible to get a Ryanair timetable that shows in one page all flights from a airport days of the week destinations etc etc .
Rather than the hit and miss system available in the website ?

racedo
29th Jul 2009, 12:01
Dos anyone know if it is possible to get a Ryanair timetable that shows in one page all flights from a airport days of the week destinations etc etc .
Rather than the hit and miss system available in the website ?

Best would probaby be using Airports own website but may not have the new fights updated yet.

Cheap flights: compare prices, find airline tickets - Skyscanner (http://www.Skyscanner.net) useful as well just put in departure airport / date / then leave To to anywhere and see the results.

SFP
29th Jul 2009, 12:35
At today's Press Conference held in Liverpool Ryanair announced for the winter:

Bratislava - 3 per week
Arrecife - 2 per week
Las Palmas - 2 per week
Rzeszow - 2 per week
and Faro - 3 per week

Also referred to increased frequencies on Alicante, Belfast City, and retaining Kaunas and others for the winter.

The Canaries announcement has already been posted earlier in the thread

No references to some of the previous information posted (Shannon frequency etc), when questioned the Ryanair representative stated that they are still finalising the winter schedules.

The fact that AENA the Spanish airports authority are prepared to allow no airport charges (dues) is central to the Ryanair strategy

Confirmed 7 aircraft based at LPL for the winter

neutrino
29th Jul 2009, 16:50
Looks like the Irish and U.K. governments' plan to make all their taxpayers stay at home and spend money domestically rather than abroad is working;

With the airlines pulling off routes, the remaining carriers can put up their prices (supply goes down, demand goes up, price goes up);

So punters are less inclined to travel to the sun for a few weeks, and the Spanish don't really want to come here during our dull dark cold wet winter, so more tax revenue (V.A.T. on purchases, excise on alcohol, petrol, etc.) can be collected from Irish/British people staying at home and spending than would be gained by visitors staying and spending for a much shorter term on a narrower range of tax revenue generating streams.

Essentially, the government is using Ryanair's bolshieness to increase tax revenue by plugging one money leak out of the country; it was never about getting €10/£10 per punter per flight, it was to precipitate the eventual Ryanair 'throwing all the toys out of the crib' reaction and reduce availability of cheap flights full of spenders to other countries.

racedo
29th Jul 2009, 17:58
Taxpayers aren't staying at home.....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif
Taxpayers are still travelling, they're just shunning Ryanair.


How many airlines are showing growth in passenger numbers and profit in Europe ?

As for business fliers !!!!! Well funnily enough BA who relies on business passengers is pretty clear they are not flying.

Its also nice that Ryanair can sell on 2nd hand jets for $30 million plus as already proven.

mickyman
29th Jul 2009, 18:07
ASFKAP

It would seem this site is intent on letting you rant
on about Ryanair in your usuall negative manor -
Why is it not okay to challenge peoples notions and
uber-negativety but let them have free rain over
this thread?

MM

Are you the key-holder to this site by any chance!
I think we should be told.

Skipness One Echo
29th Jul 2009, 18:43
mickeyman just chill out and let it go. You're taking this a little personal, a lot of people disagree with you but play the ball and not the man please.

He's not ranting in a negative *manner* he's making a good point in a rather blunt way. Those who disagree with MOL and Ryanair hardly have free *reign* on this thread. Ask racedo, he's always ready to support the company and does it rather well, however much I disagree with him on occasion.

JDB1052
29th Jul 2009, 18:50
Some priceless "if we say it they will believe it"-isms in today's Ryanair's state aid press release rant, claiming the reduced level of Irish travel tax which applies to destinations within 300km of Dublin amounts to state aid to Aer Lingus, Aer Arran, Dublin Airport and anyone else they can mention.

The tax is simply based on distance from Dublin, as is the UK tax (different bands depending on the distance from London). Anywhere under 300km is 2 euros, over 300 km is 10 euros. Ryanair themselves avail of the reduced 2 euros tax on both its domestic routes (including their Irish Government-subsidised Dublin to Kerry PSO route) and on all routes between Ireland and anywhere less than 300km from Dublin. So that's Dublin to Cork, Dublin to Kerry, Dublin to Liverpool, Dublin to Manchester, Dublin to Glasgow, Shannon to Manchester, Shannon to Glasgow, Shannon to Liverpool, Cork to Liverpool, Cork to Dublin, Kerry to Dublin and Knock to Liverpool.

So now that we've established that Ryanair think they are in receipt of state aid due to the lower taxes they pay on these routes (plus the direct PSO subsidy they get too), let's see what further words of wisdom Ryanair has on the subject:

“Ryanair believes the tax should be scrapped as it has resulted in the collapse of Irish tourism and unfairly protects domestic travel, but if this misguided Government is going to stick by its failed policy of taxing tourist it should at least ensure that it is applied fairly”.

Stop the lights - is this Ryanair asking for an increase in taxes? Ok then, if the Government are not going to scrap it, then increase it to 10 euros on all the above routes. Cue rant from MOL and more route reductions.

Embarassing.

cesare.caldi
29th Jul 2009, 20:04
Yesterday the route map was briefly showing routes to the Canaries from Edinburgh and Bergamo, but theses airports seem to have not been part of the Canaries expansion in the end.

39 new routes from Canary Island and no one of these to Italy, i'm very sad :{

I believe BGY-TFS and BGY-LPA are very good route for Ryanair. From all Italy there are no direct flight to Canary Island only charter flights, and people must take Iberia via MAD with price starting from 300 euro for a returs flights....

mickyman
29th Jul 2009, 21:48
ASFKAP

What was ever achieved by negativety - to be allowed
unchallenged to argue with incorrect/misleading personal
bias is dangerous on both sides.I am trying to
conduct an argument/conversation that is not the stuff
of tabloids.That is why some facts need to be written
down as a base for this.

Ryanair carried 60m last year so clearly they are doing
something right or are you not able to agree with that.

MM

FutureCC
29th Jul 2009, 21:54
I think Racedo and Mickyman is talking quite a lot of sense, Ryanair made 60 million people fly, albeit - they might not be different 60 million people - but 60 million went again and again.

Bottom line, they have got to be doing something right. And they are the only airline in Europe expanding and recruiting new crews. I want to be an Air-Steward, and Ryanair are one of the only airlines looking for new recruits!!!

I have seen more and more business passengers on the Stansted-Prestwick and Stansted-Dublin route.

I think what MOL is saying is that no one is coming to the UK, as it is now the most expensive route. For example, between France, Germany, Italy and the UK - and Spanish tourist would not come to the UK at the prices now charged!

People must accept that Ryanair --love them or hate them-- have revolutionised air travel. And a lot of us, myself included - are grateful that one can fly for such a little price.

Skipness One Echo
29th Jul 2009, 22:52
I agree and I fly Ryanair on occasion. However they are also bringing the competition down to lowest common denominator level which is destryoing choice for the consumer. Now I know that sounds ironic but with deep pockets and ruthless efficiency, they destroy a lot of other options that people might otherwise choose.

If you really want to work as a trolley dolley for MOL, paying for your own training and uniform then go for it. Have you ever seen Logan's Run?

B257
29th Jul 2009, 23:02
Does anyone have info on SNN-BHX winter schedule?

blueplatinum
30th Jul 2009, 01:52
39 new routes from Canary Island and no one of these to Italy, i'm very sad http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

I believe BGY-TFS and BGY-LPA are very good route for Ryanair. From all Italy there are no direct flight to Canary Island only charter flights, and people must take Iberia via MAD with price starting from 300 euro for a returs flights....You are correct. There have been loads of Italians here lately and they are nearly all having to connect via Madrid except for a very small number of charter flights.

pee
30th Jul 2009, 07:46
39 new routes from Canary Island and no one of these to Italy, i'm very sad
You do not have to be. There are hundreds of lo-co routes from/to Italy and your country has been a core business for FR. Look at Finland. Millions of Finns have to pay hundreds of euros to get anywhere out of cool and rainy autumn environment, yet nobody is offering us even a single direct (truely) low-cost connection to the Southern Europe's beaches. Try to get to Spain herefrom paying anything under 250€, even "cheap" Bulgaria flights start at 200, not without a little luck of course. A true goldmine for the first lcc that will be able to realize and explore that.

Seljuk22
30th Jul 2009, 07:47
Viva Espana!

Also new:
MAD-XRY
ALC-FDH
GRO-AGP

Buit what if the tax goes up one day?

Charlie Roy
30th Jul 2009, 09:11
I wonder if Madrid is getting an additional aircraft?
The 3 routes announced yesterday to the Canaries are all daily, and now another route, albeit domestic...

Seljuk22
30th Jul 2009, 10:16
I've checked all the flights from/to MAD at Nov 9th and there have to be 11 a/c next winter (now 7).
Morning departure from MAD to CRL, EIN, GRX, XRY (starting 3 weekly from Oct 1st and daily from 25th Oct), LPA, STN, BGY, OPO (until 24th Oct it's operated by OPO-based a/c), SDR, TFS and VLC.
Maybe FR changing the times again but there have to be more a/c than now.

pee
30th Jul 2009, 10:20
Cesare, as far as I can understand (being not good in Italian), FR intend to place as much as 4-6 planes in Treviso (to become a new base), so the expansion in Italy is far from over. Look at this article (http://www.oggitreviso.it/un-hub-di-ryanair-al-canova-17324).

befree
30th Jul 2009, 11:11
Ryanair are cutting Dublin down to 14 planes. They are trying to force cuts in tax and charges. In reality they are in trouble and cannot operate profitably if they have to pay tax and charges like everyone else.

In reality they will operate more routes from the other bases into Dublin.

They have to pay for planes even if they are not used. At some point I expect they will revised the profit guidance down again.

al446
30th Jul 2009, 11:31
And far be it from us to have negative thoughts about the little Irish spiv.

FutureCC
30th Jul 2009, 11:48
I was thinking the same thing, Ryanair will just operate the route into Dublin/Stansted from another base, which still gives the route for those flying out of Dublin/Stansted!

Well, the goverments gave in on Weeze - if Ryanair pulls out of one of the many airports they are in; realistically, it will collapse. As most of these airports are small and secondary - with no hope of another carrier coming.

If Ryanair was to leave Girona (for example) then Girona Airport would collapse, and I think AENA wouldn't be so stupid to push them out...

Evileyes
30th Jul 2009, 11:48
OK, obligatory warning with mixed metaphors. Keep the punches above the belt, play the ball not the man, and lighten up.

A valid point, pro or con and respectfully put forth, is welcome here. Stab in the dark, unprovable assertions and ad hominem attack posts are not. Neither are obvious shite stirrers.

If the shoe fits, be warned that you might not see your post or this thread at all the next time you log on. You might not even be able to log on at all if your post is tedious enough to the mods.

And for gawd's sake, some of you need to get offline and out into the fresh air a bit. ;)

The Mods

Charlie Roy
30th Jul 2009, 12:05
Cawley confirms Ryanair are in talks with:

Naples
Crotone
Catania


Aeroporto Napoli Capodichino, Ryanair interessata? :: Ciaopeople Magazine - Viaggi Cultura > Viaggi & vacanze (http://magazine.ciaopeople.com/Viaggi_Cultura-5/Viaggi_&_vacanze-63/Aeroporto_Napoli_Capodichino,_Ryanair_interessatau-12483)
Ad aprile il vice-presidente di Ryanair Michael Cawley ha dichiarato: ""dopo Pescara qualsiasi cosa e' possibile. Siamo in contatto con altri 3 aeroporti, Napoli, Crotone e Catania, che ci chiedono voli a causa della perdita di rotte e passeggeri".

racedo
30th Jul 2009, 12:16
Charlie Roy

Thanks for that :ok:

I guessed Ryanair would already be working on something without even considering the demise of My Air but now have other opportunities opening up in addition to those already planned.

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 13:02
Pee, I'm not so sure about Treviso. FR want it as a base but noise problems and environmental concerns have put the dampers on it so far from what I hear.

Morbid
30th Jul 2009, 13:14
Its startling to see how UK centric the views on this thread are when we're talking about what is now a pan european airline. So Ryanair cuts some services from the UK. Its the right way to go with a saturated market suffering from gross over capacity. If they can throw in a few pot shots at the regulators and competitors whilst doing so all the better for free publicity.

Expansion in Italy and Spain. Most logical move possible in the present economic climate.

National airlines in both countries are shoddy and have cut back on service to the bone without reducing prices or cost base.
Charter airlines in both countries struggling to survive.
Airports in said countries fighting for revenue post building and construction projects.
Regional government support available in just about every province due to a high dependency on tourism where visitor numbers ergo visitor spending are the most important factors in the local economies.
Outbound tourism from both countries growing rapidly especially amongst the key 20-40 yr old demographic.
Finally, very few airlines looking to actively expand hence less competion.Personally I believe that in the next two - three years we'll see Ryanair taking on a number of destinations outside the EU as destinations conforming to the above conditions will become fewer. It'll all depend on traffic rights being granted by 2nd tier tourist hungry destinations but I can well imagine destinations in N Africa, the black sea and even the Middle east. You won't get flights to Dubai but other emirates would welcome tourists and to not have to develop their own airlines would be a very welcome saving. Balkan resorts, the Crimea and North africa all present a similar situation. Would they be routes from the Uk... not likely, instead rathermore from historical mediteranean trading partners.

From the start (the Stansted base) Ryanair has shown how you can transport the business model to any airport in any country should the conditions that they require be present. Just how many countries currently have:

Incumbent airlines unable to expand
Incumbent airlines enjoying monopoly in their home market
Incumbent airlines with poor quality of service
Incumbent airlines with high cost base
Passengers forced to pass through hubs
Democratically elected politicians
Poor internal transport infrastructure
Underused airports

The Uk is not one of them... It did however enjoy that situation until FR and EZY started services.

mickyman
30th Jul 2009, 13:33
Morbid

I would concur with the conclusions in your post.

MM

FutureCC
30th Jul 2009, 13:51
Absolutely correct, although any new routes out there that represent something completely new I would say would have a flight going to Dublin and Stansted.

Of course, Ryanair are a European airline - but they are not going to turn there back from Stansted or Dublin. New aircraft will be based elsewhere, that makes perfect sense. But one of those aircraft will fly to Dublin and Stansted.

As you have said, expansion from the UK will stop - but not flights coming here.

I say by Decemeber 2010, you will be able to fly Ryanair to the United States and probably Dubai.

captplaystation
30th Jul 2009, 14:17
harer92 (post 5092)
Okay, I'm going to take the bait.
As the last two letters of the reg are painted/well stuck actually, on the nose gear door, and the full reg is visible both under the wing and on the back fuselage if you get on the back, and , given that RYR hardly ever uses airbridges, why, exactly do you want to know the reg the day before ?:hmm: is there one aircraft you don't like ? or you just want to show your girlfriend/wife that you are a super sleuth by telling her the reg before you walk across the apron . . . . I bet she is impressed :D :ugh:

MUFC_fan
30th Jul 2009, 14:49
I say by Decemeber 2010, you will be able to fly Ryanair to the United States and probably Dubai.


Macathur (NYC), Fujairah (UAE) and Oakland (LA) would be by guesses.

Skipness One Echo
30th Jul 2009, 15:19
I say by Decemeber 2010, you will be able to fly Ryanair to the United States and probably Dubai.

MOL has categorically stated that Ryanair will NOT go long haul. He has speculated that they might found a new company in the medium term to test the water but has confirmed that the Ryanair model won't adapt to long haul without tweaks and that is best done with a fresh sheet of paper.

FutureCC
30th Jul 2009, 15:35
That's basically what I meant, whether the aircraft says RYANAIR or RYANATLANTIC. It doesn't matter, the flight would be booked via ryanair.com, as MOL stated.

It sends shivers up the spines of BA, United, American, Virgin etc - but that's the future.

Well of course certain changes have to be made; one free checked-in bag, a free meal and free soft drinks. But if you could fly to New York for a fraction of the cost on one of the so called "full service" carriers - who would say no?

Of course, some of the airports Ryanair flies to don't have facilities to take a Boeing 777 - but Stansted, Girona, Hahn (and probably many more) do!

It would be the same model, flying to secondary airports with transfer links, but bottom line - it will be cheaper so it would be a success.

It may not appeal to everyone... perhaps not the business passengers or those who can afford BA or don't like Ryanair. But for the rest of us, why not?

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 15:46
A triple 7 in Girona!? You're a funny guy!

FutureCC
30th Jul 2009, 16:09
I am very sure I read that as a possible destination... In fact I am certain...

"European airports that would host these flights are reportedly Barcelona-Girona (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Girona_Airport), Birmingham (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Birmingham_International_Airport_(United_Kingdom)), Dublin (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Dublin_Airport), Frankfurt-Hahn (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Frankfurt-Hahn), Glasgow-Prestwick (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Glasgow-Prestwick), Liverpool (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Liverpool_Airport), London-Stansted (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/London-Stansted), Milan-Bergamo (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Orio_al_Serio_Airport) & Stockholm-Skavsta (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Stockholm-Skavsta)."

RyanAtlantic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanatlantic)

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 16:27
Future CC: I see. It's written on Wikipedia so it must be true. You are not at fault. Even the press, and I include respectable broadsheet newspapers, regurgitate Ryanairs spin and propaganda verbatim as if it were fact. Well let me tell you something. It's not. It's hot air. It gets acres of free publicity and excites the innocent such as yourself.

Gironas runway can just about handle a full 737-800 on a short haul flight in certain conditions. Liverpool is not exactly a long runway either. There is no way transatlantic ops with a 777 would work, where would you park it? May I respectfully suggest that you relocate to the Spotters Balcony section of the site where you can salivate over the virtual airline and it's routes that you would run?

MUFC_fan
30th Jul 2009, 16:33
It would be idiotic for the airline to do it in the current climate but whatever you say about MOL, he knows what he is doing when it comes to running the airline.


Gironas runway can just about handle a full 737-800 on a short haul flight in certain conditions.


Monarch fly A330s and Thomson B767s during the summer months to the airport - I guess when the airport is at worst conditions (hot summers?) I do know these are for short haul yet so are the 737s you mentioned.

I can't see it in happening within the next 2-3 years but when the economy recovers it could be MOL's 'retiring' package.

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 16:40
Yes they do but it's one thing doing a short hop to the UK and another to fly to America, and a B767 or an A330 is not a B777 which is the aircraft this publicity stunt claimed was to be used.

MUFC_fan
30th Jul 2009, 16:42
I wasn't making reference to long haul, I was simply stating that your claim a 737 is pushing it when fully loaded is rubbish - an A330 and B767 can do it so a B737 can do it more easily.


I do know these are for short haul yet so are the 737s you mentioned.

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 16:55
I didn't say it was tight. I said in certain conditions. A rare condition it was but the limit was in sight. I fly one for a living you'll have to trust me. I was trying to keep it in simple terms to offer a comparison between operating a light single aisle and almost the largest widebody airliner Boeing have. We are getting away from the point now anyway, the longhaul airline was a PR stunt, as was the charging for toilets, as was standing pax, as was charging for body weight etc etc.

FutureCC
30th Jul 2009, 17:08
I am sorry Telstar, I geuss I was fooled by MOL - something which doesn't happen often!!! I am afraid I do not know enough to say what routes I would run, I don't think I have ever salivated either.

If it was a publicity stunt - then lets draw a line under it, although I did think it was going to happen. :(

racedo
30th Jul 2009, 17:31
We are getting away from the point now anyway, the longhaul airline was a PR stunt

Think it was more along the lines of a statement of future intent rather than a stunt though agree a 777 is the unlikely aircraft.

MUFC_fan
30th Jul 2009, 17:37
A350XWB is the most likely aircraft IF the airline were to take form.

787 may be a bit small yet Airbus would have to co-operate with MOL which isn't exactly what the bosses at Toulouse have come to terms with yet - he wants them for LESS than it costs you to make! LESS! God...all these execs who are not doing what MOL wants - what is this world coming to!:}:ok:

racedo
30th Jul 2009, 17:43
Well Racedo as the Ryanair employee assigned to monitor this corner of PPRuNe I'm sure you get to hear the whitehouse rumours first hand.

No chance, as have not nor ever have worked for them.

Getting back to the question rather than the people do you think FR would run a T/A Service from the airports mentioned ? Not with as you pointed out a 777.

OliWW
30th Jul 2009, 17:45
MOL will be looking at a number of aircraft, A330's, A340's, A350's and then B787, B747.8 and the B777. So who knows which one he will pick, EMA should also be on that list as they will be able to handle the B777, B787, A330 and A340

Telstar
30th Jul 2009, 17:54
A330's, A340's, A350's and then B787, B747.8 and the B777.

Why stop there!? This is a great game. Maybe we could add the Space shuttle? Those Concordes could easily be made airworthy again too.

Racedo, The FR model works on high utilisation of aircraft and 25 min turnarounds. These don't seemingly mix with long haul ops. What could a Mol startup do that would be different from say Zoom?

racedo
30th Jul 2009, 18:55
he FR model works on high utilisation of aircraft and 25 min turnarounds. These don't seemingly mix with long haul ops. What could a Mol startup do that would be different from say Zoom?

The current FR shorthaul model works on that basis, why does everybody assume a longhaul model has to be exactly the same ?

In relation to the diff a FR start up (prob may not be MOL) V Zoom would be
1.) existing bases that would be used to feed into the T/A service
2.) exisiting bases that happy to start T/A services where none exist
3.) cash resources required for first 3 years as start up capital to survive.
4.) database of millions of existing customers

Chances of success are probably 50-50 maybe even less than that..

It would require separate company which doesn't take best people out of existing operation because the biggest risk to company would be taking best people for a startup and forgetting what is the bread and butter.

History is littered with examples where people forget about what brings in the money to concentrate on what looks exciting.

Of course options like ordering and paying for meal and drinks beforehand on line and other things like that can easily happen so 250 passengers with 100 different meal options are equally possible.

conti onepass
30th Jul 2009, 19:31
hi, flew to gerona 2 weeks ago from manchester on thomsons 767-300, runway is abit short we braked very hard and stopped pretty quickly

Noxegon
30th Jul 2009, 23:04
Dublin Airport puts Ryanair in their box...

DAA Statement Regarding Ryanair Capacity Cuts (http://www.dublinairport.com/at-airport/latest-news/300709_daastatement.html)

davidjohnson6
30th Jul 2009, 23:14
DAA must *really* like MOL to put out that press release !

EISNN
30th Jul 2009, 23:28
That's quite a comprehensive statement. Fair play to by DAA considering the slating that MOL gives them. About time they grew a pair of b*lls. but for entertainment purposes I'm hoping that MOL comes back with something just for laughs.

Skipness One Echo
30th Jul 2009, 23:56
Actually given that BA seem to be in freefall, ( don't get me started on losing the free sarnie! ) and VS are not far behind, this *MAY* me a good time to test the water.

Ex-RN
31st Jul 2009, 00:45
Telstar ! Ref LPL runway being short - Shite !!
For Champion's League finals it has wall to wall 747's

MUFC_fan
31st Jul 2009, 00:48
The 747s did only fly four approx. four hours!

When comparing them to runways in London, Amsterdam etc. (even next door!) they are not the longest but I would say that they do suit the airports operations: short haul low cost.

super737
31st Jul 2009, 00:52
Big talk for EI's b*tch. DAA need FR more than anybody. Why? EI are such a success transtlantic and expanding from Ireland. Oops i meant outside of the republic, culling transatlantic routes and starting to look like ENRON.

The DAA need to realise that even though its home turf for the flying harp, there are dispensable. Wheres the statement for the flying shambles sorry I mean shamrock???

The DAA are going to regret this, you don't pi** on one of your biggest if not the biggest customer and tell them it's rain.

Skipness One Echo
31st Jul 2009, 01:22
The DAA need to realise that even though its home turf for the flying harp, there are dispensable.

Stop rambling please. Exactly what in the statement from the DAA are you claiming to be innaccurate?
You can't work for Ryanair Super 737, they've got a thicker skin than that! Good on them for speaking out, I doubt it ought to harm their relationship as they need each other.

Noxegon
31st Jul 2009, 07:48
Yawn. If Ryanair decide to pull services from Dublin then I'm confident Easyjet will replace them. End of line.

pee
31st Jul 2009, 08:01
Do you like puzzles? Here is one for you to solve.FR is set to open one new base in Britain — housing up to three aircraft — by the end of October.

O'Leary said yesterday that the company is considering three airports for the new base and could be in a position to make a further announcement within the next fortnight, with the new hub possibly being operational by the end of October. Mr O’Leary said that Ryanair currently flies to two of the three airports being considered. It would bring to 34 the number of European hubs, Ryanair operates.
You can also read more in the Irish Examiner (http://www.examiner.ie/sport/ryanair-to-open-british-base-dublin-capacity-cut-97702.html#ixzz0Mofyrocm).

So, which could be the three airports in question? And what's the airport not yet being flown to?
In fact, there are not so many left in the entire UK. Cardiff perhaps?

An additional puzzle for me: why all that fuss about the reduction of UK flights when at the same the new base will be announced there?

gate 22
31st Jul 2009, 08:20
With an announcement on the runway extension at BHD due any day soon, it may not go FR's way, hopefully 'cryinair' won't be coming to BFS.

globetrotter79
31st Jul 2009, 08:21
I would guess two out of MAN, LBA and NCL as the two existing points of operation and CWL as the third.

If you look at their existing route map, the only existing UK points that are not bases are ABZ (will never support 3 aircraft), LDY (same), NQY (same), DSA (possibly, but still so very close to EMA, BHX), LGW (difficult to see where they'd get the slots to run year-round services for three whole aircraft..after all the lions share of EI's slots at LGW have been handed to them on a plate by BA, which is hardly likely to happen with FR) which just leaves MAN, LBA and NCL.

VanBosh
31st Jul 2009, 08:23
"Due to theBritish Governments refusal to remove the idiotic tax on tourism......we will halt all expansion at UK airports"

One week later and they announce about 25 new routes to the canaries now a new UK base is in the pipeline. I wonder how do these guys keep a straight face at any press conference they do.

In terms of where the next base is I would say the airports they are talking to which they fly to currently are two from Gatwick / Manchester / Leeds and the one which the do not currently fly to would be Cardiff or Glasgow International?

Any one know anything more concrete?

840
31st Jul 2009, 09:13
How easy is it to get slots at MAN?

Putting three aircraft in there doesn't sound like that easy a task.

Also, would Durham-Tees Valley not be a possible base?

Charlie Roy
31st Jul 2009, 09:30
FR is set to open one new base in Britain — housing up to three aircraft — by the end of October.

My money's on Gatwick. "Die Aer Lingus, Die".

FutureCC
31st Jul 2009, 09:32
Well, I geuss the TA operation is going to be something to play by ear and wait and see...

Awaiting MOL's reply - it will be excellent as they have just bad mouthed Ryanair!

The cardinal sin!

racedo
31st Jul 2009, 09:45
Dublin Airport puts Ryanair in their box...

DAA Statement Regarding Ryanair Capacity Cuts (http://www.dublinairport.com/at-airport/latest-news/300709_daastatement.html)Good old DAA such a well managed company.:ugh::ugh:

After all it has such good controls that it allowed Cork Airport spend €200 M plus on an airport that carries 3 million passengers a year and then claimed it didn't know it was happening or

Spending €1 Billion on Dublin and ignoring what its customers want while watching its passenger numbers decrease by 10%.

Seljuk22
31st Jul 2009, 09:50
I don't believe it. First we got BRI or BDS as a possible base followed by SVQ and GOA. Yesterday TSF (and FR is in talks with NAP and CTA) and now a new base somewhere in Britain.

Shed-on-a-Pole
31st Jul 2009, 09:52
Hi 840,

The marked decline in Air Transport Movements at MAN over the last two years means that acquiring runway slots for three based units is unlikely to be a problem. And in the case of Ryanair which seems to favour first rotations in the 06-07 hour (local time) there would be even less of an issue.

I suspect that whether Ryanair chooses MAN or an alternative airport will be wholly down to the financial package on offer and not runway capacity.

Cheers, SHED.

840
31st Jul 2009, 09:56
Thanks for that.

I'd been under the impression that slots weren't things you easily got at MAN, but I guess the world has changed a lot in the last few years.

I'd imagine one thing that counts against MAN is the proximity of the existing base at Liverpool.

Thinking of it in those terms, the obvious gap in Ryanair's UK bases is in the North-East, so Newcastle and Durham-Tees Valley must be contenders. But as you say, the package offered by the airports may be as important as the potential market.

Ian Brooks
31st Jul 2009, 10:05
When you see the number of Ryanair flights in an evening at MAN you would wonder

Ian B

apaul
31st Jul 2009, 10:16
Some of your criticisms of DAA may well be valid Racedo, but is there anything that the DAA statement says about Ryanair that is inaccurate? Surely it hits the nail on the head, hence your diversion onto other issues.

Facelookbovvered
31st Jul 2009, 10:30
Jet2 have LBA to themselves at the minute and this is reflected in the price they charge from LBA when compared to the same destinations flown from other Jet2 bases.

With the airport having been given the nod to spend 28million on terminal improvements (ie more shops) they need more pax to command rentals to pay for it and whilst Jet2 have done a great job for Leeds pax numbers are still stuck the wrong side of 3m, whilst 3 based aircraft might not worry Jet2 the impact will be much greater because far more aircraft will route through Leeds from non UK based aircraft

Question can the 737-800 with a full load land on R32 (Autoland) in the wet and whats the max tailwind 0-10knts?

Ryanair are very strick about SAC, not easy at LBA when its very windy

FutureCC
31st Jul 2009, 10:37
My money is also on Gatwick as the new base, offering - oh so original - routes that Aer Lingus is flying; Faro, Malaga, Memmingen (West Munich) Dublin, Basel, Marseilles, Krakow (definietly a Polish destination) Lanzarote and Tenerife.

Well, EI don't fly to Basel and Marseilles - but you get what I mean!

Direct competition with Aer Lingus. And some with Easyjet.

dwlpl
31st Jul 2009, 10:54
they do suit the airports operations: short haul low cost

Very good at it to and they want, as the Government suggested, extensions to both ends of the runway.

they do suit the airports operations: short haul low cost

;) ;) ;)

mickyman
31st Jul 2009, 14:57
BA reporting a loss of £148m makes Ryanairs
performance seem good.
Or do others have a different reading of this?

MM

runway30
31st Jul 2009, 15:31
A UK airport that Ryanair currently doesn't fly to. That's one very short list!

Skipness One Echo
31st Jul 2009, 15:33
Cardiff as they pulled out recently?
Glasgow where they last flew BAC111s in the late 1980s? I still remember seeing them roar overhead....

They've also just pulled out of Inverness but that's less likely.
Blackpool or Exeter are a bit leftfield....

I doubt they'd make Gatwick a base, you can almost hear the screams of panic as the crew are asked to hold remote for the stand to become available. I recall one easyJet pilot informing Gatwick Ground that the Ryanair on his left was NOT ready for push and start as the doors were wide open and they had no tug, and so could they please stop holding him up and let him push now!
Tis not really a Ryanair airport, not a criticsim, just the way it is.

Mickeyman comparing BA with FR is comparing apples and oranges. Not a FACT, just an opinion.....

840
31st Jul 2009, 16:03
Aside from those mentioned, other options are
- Southampton - But the runway is short and it's close to Bournemouth
- Southend - Similar runway problems
- Manston - Has failed to support regular services previously
- Norwich - Again issues with the runway length
- Humberside - Problems with the market size for 3 aircraft and isn't that far from Doncaster or EMA
- Jersey - Another short runway

There's a few others (mostly ex-RAF bases) that have adequate runways, but nowhere near enough catchment.

EISNN
31st Jul 2009, 16:54
@<hidden>

I don't think Jersey is problem cos of a short runway. Aer Lingus operate flights from ORK and DUB to Jersey on A320's with no problems and no passenger number restrictions. So I can't imagine that FR would have any problems either.

racedo
31st Jul 2009, 16:59
BA reporting a loss of £148m makes Ryanairs
performance seem good.
Or do others have a different reading of this?

It does but Primark making the same and comparing against a loss at M and S is just as comparable but they serve different markets and consumers. I don't see a fair comparison.

BA is a long haul operator who abandoned short haul apart from feeder routes to its LH services and relied on premium passengers mostly paid for business to make its money.......decent strategy when economy is booming. They are operating an inflexible model though with working practices from another era that take a while to change, not a criticism but just my reading of the situation.

Probably their biggest mistake was not turning GO into the LC to serve the European market even if it bled the SH business as that could have kept them in the game.

At the moment its a constant retreat back to Fortress which will utimately get challenged and painful.

holyflyer
31st Jul 2009, 17:52
There is, of course, a rather large well equipped RAF base about to lose its residents to Brize Norton - Bristol East/Swindon International coming soon?

Dedicated airspace already in place. Sitting right under an airway. 2 nice long runways. Hangars. etc etc. neatly placed close to M4 . Decent catchment area within 30 miles.

Just a thought. I'm sure MOL will be leafing through the airfield guides.

james170969
31st Jul 2009, 18:24
Does anyone know if Ryanair are still interested in flying to Stornoway? A few years ago they wanted to fly from Stornoway to Prestwick and Stansted.

Sober Lark
31st Jul 2009, 19:00
Stornoway (Rockall east)

mickyman
31st Jul 2009, 20:19
Skipness

Probably the first rule of business - pay your way to
make a profit - all else means nothing.
Irrespective of niche markets - making a profit is the name
of the game - ask any business person !!


racedo

No matter how many ways you can 'skin a cat' -
I bet M+S would like the Primark profit figures.

MM

james170969
31st Jul 2009, 20:49
"Stornoway - Rockall East"?
That's incorrect. Stornoway is actually New York East!

ncleflights
31st Jul 2009, 20:53
As mentioned in a previous post the obvious gap in the UK market at the moment is the North East of England. Three poss airports 1, NCL, 2 LBA and 3 DTV. Cant see it been NCL as they have two locos already based there in the form of Jet 2 and Easyjet and I am not sure they would come up with the financial package. Leeds/Bradford has Jet 2 with a wide spread of routes and Company HQ at LBA, again not sure they would come up with the deal they would make the airport attractive to FR.

My moneys on DTV, they are desperate for a new opertor since loosing flyglobespand and before that BMI Baby. Just look at the departures board to see how services have slumped, sometimes 5 flights a day, I am sure they would give FR whatever they wanted to get them in. Knowing FR I would imagine that DTV would quickly be marketed as NCL South.

eastern wiseguy
31st Jul 2009, 21:02
BFS.....move out of the docks to a PROPER 24 hour fully equipped airport with no need for a spurious runway extension or the associated public enquiry. :hmm:

JKKne
31st Jul 2009, 21:04
I can't see FR at MME.

I can't see anyone at Teesside to be honest! FR already axed DUB and already have Gerona and Alicante from Teesside whilst NCL retains DUB (even against EI over winter) and also Gerona

NCL is probably too expensive for FR to expand from and I'd guess they aren't interested in Teesside or they'd have done something a long long time ago

Gulf Julliet Papa
31st Jul 2009, 21:37
My moneys on LGW and MAN as the two they are looking at. Ryanair have expanded services in the last year at both. Plus LGW has the added bonus for Ryanair that its an Aer Lingus hub. I think with BAA selling both STN & LGW it wouldnt be a suprise if they played one off against the other and stick with who ever has the best deal.

The other airports they already operate to which are not bases are ABZ, NCL, MME, LBA, DSA & NQY. All of which have seen a significant decrease in flights recently, and therefore would suggest a lack of interest in expansion (or basing an aircraft there). MME defenatly not...the loads on the existing routes are not great.

But anything can happen with Ryan. Bare in mind this year we have heard about newspaper articles relating to MLA, CTA, BRI, BDS, TSF to name a few off the top of my head, and still nothing! It will all depend on the deal at the airport, but I wouldnt hold my breath for a new UK base

GJP

MUFC_fan
31st Jul 2009, 21:40
I agree. MAN was an airport excluded from the 'threat' of no expansion.

apaul
31st Jul 2009, 22:13
A base of 'up to 3 aircraft' at a UK airport would not make much sense at Gatwick or Manchester as it would leave Ryanair a small bit-player at either. If it happens at all, it's more likely to be a smaller airport desperate enough to offer a very good deal.

WELSHGUY40
31st Jul 2009, 22:49
its a shame it wont be cwl we need some good news for a change

rpmac
31st Jul 2009, 23:06
LBA would seem a logical place to set up a small base, however FR have said that costs at LBA are too high and have said that expansion is not on the cards, yet load factors have been good and FR seem happy with their operation there. Jet2 are certainly there too but it demonstates that the customers are there and want to fly from LBA if possible. The catchment area is good and can draw in customers from both the DTV and DSA regions. On the downside though is the problem of major terminal works getting started. Nevertheless both the airport and FR are keen to expand so maybe a deal will be realised.

davidjohnson6
31st Jul 2009, 23:29
I know it's great fun trying to figure out what Ryanair might or might not do depending on what they said in a press release (not always known for their reliability !) and coming up with reasons to justify one's argument...... but it does seem just a tad speculative in nature.

aeulad
1st Aug 2009, 00:07
My money is on Newcastle, plenty of potential there. I would say Manchester as a second option. I pray for Humberside, but that ain't gonna happen, and no way 3 aircraft!

Regards

Mike

daz211
1st Aug 2009, 09:33
There is alot of talk by ryanair Cabin Crew of Southend getting some
flights before the end of the year, Now I dont know if a base is on
the cards or if they are talking about a few routes from other bases.

Maybe MOL and Mr Stobbart have been in talks we will have to wait
and see how true it all is...

Ian Brooks
1st Aug 2009, 10:17
That sounds like a bit of a bargaining tool against Stansted, say they will move some flights away?

Ian B

Whiskey Papa
1st Aug 2009, 10:29
These aircraft will need to go somewhere - but does anyone know how many aircraft FR will dispose of?

WP

Ryanair press release:-

Ryanair Announces $1.6Bn Aircraft Financing Agreement



FOR 55 NEW AIRCRAFT DELIVERIES


Ryanair, the world’s favourite airline today (31 July) announced that it has awarded mandates to a syndicate of banks for approximately $1.6bn of financing for 55 aircraft delivering between November 2009 and October 2010. The syndicate of banks is comprised of BNP Paribas, Calyon, and Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation. The banks have been mandated to act as joint arrangers for Ryanair’s US Ex-Im Bank Euro dominated export credit facility. Calyon have underwritten 25 aircraft and BNP Paribas and SMBC have each underwritten 15 aircraft.

Commenting on this financing, CFO Howard Millar said:

“Ryanair is pleased to announce the agreement for approximately $1.6bn of underwritten funding for 55 aircraft to be delivered between November 2009 and October 2010 with our partners BNP Paribas, Calyon and SMBC. It is testimony to the financial strength of Ryanair and the standing of our partners BNP Paribas, Calyon and SMBC that we have been able to complete a facility of this size in the current challenging financial markets. The securing of this facility will enable Ryanair to continue to grow its business and bring more competition, choice, and lower fares to consumers in Europe”.

Commenting on this financing, Eric Eugène, Global Head of Transportation Group BNP Paribas, José Abramovici, Global Head of Aviation Group & Rail Finance Calyon and Craig Macdonald, Head of Aircraft Finance SMBC, collectively said:

“The Banks were most pleased to jointly support the financing of 55 B737-800 aircraft for one of the leading European carriers. Ryanair has once again proven to be cost efficient not only in its operations, its aircraft purchasing, but also in negotiating the terms and conditions of its jumbo 55 aircraft financing in an unprecedented period of scarce liquidity from the aviation banking universe”.

LGS6753
1st Aug 2009, 10:43
This is only confirmation of funding for aircraft already on order.

MUFC_fan
1st Aug 2009, 13:53
I think LGW would be too much of a challenge to take on U2 and would sort of go against their reduction at STN - another BAA airport etc.

They do have A LOT of new planes coming and I can probably see MAN benefiting from this personally. Maybe build it up quite quickly like the BHX base.

OliWW
1st Aug 2009, 14:04
DSA would be a good base for FR, because they have flights in and out of MAN currently and a base at LPL, they can serve a wide range of destinations and passengers would be able to choose from a wider range of destinations within a certain range. It wouldnt help LS at LBA and MAN either. Instead of moving to LGW, they should consider MSE, however isnt suitable for a base, but is possible for cheap flights, as almost 60% of passengers at LGW come from the South East. Another place for a possible FR base would be NCL as easyJet have only 5 aircraft based there this winter, and have seen upto 7 the past couple of years or Exeter/Newquay for passengers in the South West, as currently if they 'want' to fly FR they have to travel to BRS or BOH

Stewart28
1st Aug 2009, 14:54
How about LDY as a base they already have 6 routes from the airport

cuthere
1st Aug 2009, 15:09
Stewart, a similar thought had crossed my mind.

They'd only need to base 1 or 2 planes there to cover the routes they fly from Derry (maybe add an EDI or MAN?), thus freeing up the planes that fly to Derry to perhaps operate routes from the respective bases. Who knows?

racedo
1st Aug 2009, 18:28
Incident: Ryanair B738 at Parma on Jul 31st 2009, rejected takeoff due to runway incursion (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=41d94059&opt=0)

Nice load factor......

EI-BUD
1st Aug 2009, 20:05
So If Ryanair are serious about a new UK base what the chance of it being

Glasgow International? unlikely?
Manchester?
Durham Tees Valley?
Doncaster Sheffield?

I would bet that the 3 under consideration are in this list. My money is on Manchester though given the awful state of affairs at Durham Tees Valley perhaps they will give Ryanair the deal of the century.

Is Cambridge capable of taking a 738 comfortably? I remember when the freight 747 crashed in STN GO 733 were landing and taking off from the Cambridge....

Richard Taylor
2nd Aug 2009, 08:47
Once upon a yesterday RYR did speak (albeit in local press!) about ABZ as a possible area for expansion into Europe. But as has been said:
i. pax nos. generally are falling here, quite significantly presently
also:
ii. catchment area (too small)
iii. runway also too small, as BAA STILL dither over it's teeny weeny expansion
iv. high operating costs

I doubt RYR would now want to base anything here, let alone fly. LPL was axed & DUB is presently down to 3w. I think 189-seat aircraft are too big for ABZ in terms of making any other route work.

Surprised RYR want to expand in UK at all, let alone base anything here, given APD & its forthcoming increase.

But we'll see.

Powerjet1
2nd Aug 2009, 09:09
Flights missed in Ryanair chaos at Stanstead airport -Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article6736349.ece)

Flightrider
2nd Aug 2009, 09:57
1/ Cardiff
2/ Leeds
3/ Durham

WELSHGUY40
2nd Aug 2009, 10:21
:ok: to cwl shame it wont be

captplaystation
2nd Aug 2009, 10:51
If Fiona Wilson's luggage went without her to "Grenada" there will be trouble at mill. :ooh:
First there will be questions asked why the flight departed with unreconciled unaccompanied baggage, and secondly, ops will want to know why the crew chose to operate a jolly to the Caribbean instead of going to the S of Spain as instructed. :rolleyes:

Journalism at its finest by "the times online", what happened to spelling/proof reading in the modern age ?

WELSHGUY40
2nd Aug 2009, 11:27
money on leeds

conti onepass
2nd Aug 2009, 12:50
perhaps it is manchester we av lost shannon to liverpool, perhaps its coming back but using a manchester based aircraft.

mybrico
2nd Aug 2009, 13:41
Another Peel airport? my bet Teeside and then Robin Hood, makes sense for Teeside to take on NCL catchment. Or Southend

sky9
2nd Aug 2009, 14:14
Re flights missed at Stansted. It appears that Ryanair couldn't care a shonet about their passengers as long as they have paid their money.

One day someone will get them into court for the total cost of their holiday, sooner rather than later I hope.

ara01jbb
2nd Aug 2009, 14:16
Wow. An actual apology, although with a big fat finger pointed at Swissport...

Source: Ryanair - Notice : Ryanair statement - Stansted Airport (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/notices.php?notice=gops&code=090802-STN_staff_shortages-GB)

Ryanair statement - Stansted Airport

Ryanair apologises to passengers who missed flights or had their flights delayed at London Stansted airport yesterday.
Ryanair operates an on-line check in service for all its passengers. No passengers are required to queue to check in at the airport. Only passengers with checked-in baggage are required to use the bag drop facility. Yesterday due to staff shortages at our ground handling partner, Swissport, an inadequate number of bag drop desks were operating at Stansted.
Ryanair assures its passengers that it is working with Swissport to ensure this situation does not recur.

virginblue
2nd Aug 2009, 14:26
Geez, what's going on at Ryanair? Is Mick on holidays and cannot oversee his PR department properly? :confused: He must be furious now that a customer-related press release went out without the usual "stuff it" and "shut up" attitude. I hope Ryanair is up to its rudeness standard sooner than later.:cool:

cuthere
2nd Aug 2009, 14:36
And even that half-hearted "apology" doesn't mention words like "refund", "offer of alternative travel" etc.

Checking-in online is all fine and well, but it encourages people to turn up at airports at the very last minute, meaning chaos at security/bag drop.

I haven't been through Stansted for some time, but have used RYR through BRS, BHX, LDY and BHD recently. Getting through security at any of them is bad enough, but becomes a nightmare when several RYR flights are due to depart at roughly the same time.

I've decided I'd rather be early and bored, than late and miss my flight.

sky9
2nd Aug 2009, 16:48
Having accepted responsibility for the problem why did the aircraft depart without passengers?
I hope someone takes Ryanair to Court for the loss of their holiday as it is obviously company policy to depart on time with or without fare paying passengers.

Centre cities
2nd Aug 2009, 16:54
True but in my book 3 hrs is early for a euro flight.

On the subject of a new UK base, DTV fits perfectly, I would think desperate for traffic as it basically has none, no operators toes to tread on and a underserved North East Ryanair market.

I really hope it goes there as I seriuosly fear for the wrists of the locals if nothing happens soon.

A good deal for both I would think, cheap rates for Ryaniar, an area begging for some services and and passengers for the airport to generate some income and jobs, even if Ryanair do not pay a lot.


Centre cities

Jamesair
2nd Aug 2009, 17:46
I think NCL has a good chance, Ryanair already have their toe in the water with Dublin and Gerona (Shannon did well for the short period it operated). There is a proven demand with new destinations keenly sought.

anna_list
2nd Aug 2009, 18:19
Hi,

It seems odd that so far the Northeast of England has not been a very happy hunting ground for Ryanair. So far they have tried and dropped the following routes (please note the usual caveat about loads and yields):

NCL-SNN - carried 9000 passengers last winter with an average flown load factor of 59%.
NCL-TRF - carried 82,000 passengers in 2005/6/7 with an average flown load factor of 51%.
NCL-BGY - carried 173,000 passengers between 2005 and 2008 with an average flown load factor of 67%.
MME-DUB - one of Ryanair's oldest routes, operating from 1997 until it was dropped this summer. Last year the average flown load factor was 59%, which was unchanged from 2007.
MME-CIA - carried 78,000 passengers in 2005/6 with an average flown load factor of 65%.

The following routes are still running:
NCL-DUB - has been operating since 2003 and in recent years Aer Lingus have dropped the route twice.
NCL-GRO - 75% flown LF so far this year, 81% last year and 82% in 2007.
MME-GRO - seasonal, but an 81% flown LF this year, 83% last year and 79% in 2007.
MME-ALC - seasonal, but an 81% flown LF this year.

With these mixed results so far, how far up Ryanair's list of priorities is a base in the north east? To what extent will it depend on how good a deal they can strike with the airport(s)?

toledoashley
2nd Aug 2009, 18:35
What about Jersey as a base?

JER-STN/BRS/PIK/DUB/BHD/CRL

cuthere
2nd Aug 2009, 18:44
Runway at Jersey might be prohibitive. What is it? Around 5600ft?

dionysius
2nd Aug 2009, 19:52
Fiona Wilson, 35, was told she was too late to board her flight for a two-week holiday in Grenada but some of her luggage had been put on the plane. “They are not sure when we can get it back,” she said.

Should her bags not have been offloaded by Swissport if she didnt travel :confused:

Is this not illegal under AAA regulations ?

STN Ramp Rat
2nd Aug 2009, 20:29
Dionysius
Yes that would be illegal and I would have thought he Dft would be speaking to Swissport. That said any deficiency notice is served on the carrier not the handling agent.
I hear that Servisair have been drafted in to load all the domestic Ryanair flights until further notice

EI-BUD
2nd Aug 2009, 21:10
Newcastle as a base, I cant see it, Copenhagen Airport own the airport at Newcastle and the manager has said in a recent interview that they would not give more favourable terms to other airlines than the existing based airline-easyjet.

Easyjet have said that NCL is one of the most profitable bases in % terms and are very happy. I simply cannot see Ryanair getting such a low cost base without Easyjet getting a massive cut in costs?

At this point in time MOL is saying that Many Spanish airports are giving zero cost to them, so bear that in mind when considering what their next move will be. I contradict myself to some extent as I suggested that
Manchester
Durham Tees Valley &
Doncaster are the most likely short list.

option 2 and 3 with train of thought seem like the most likely??

ConstantFlyer
2nd Aug 2009, 21:56
Go on then, I'll have a guess:

- Cardiff
- Leeds/Bradford
- Manchester

though South East England is also a good bet with:

- Oxford West (Brize Norton) or
- London Kent (Manston)

WHBM
2nd Aug 2009, 22:01
Dionysius
Yes that would be illegal and I would have thought he Dft would be speaking to Swissport. That said any deficiency notice is served on the carrier not the handling agent.
This must be an opportunity for the CAA to have a go at Ryanair in support of their passengers they let down. Normally Ryanair hides behind the skirts of the Irish CAA, who they well and truly have sewn up, on the basis that their AOC is in Ireland and under European regulations they can thus evade the UK CAA's scrutiny, for UK departures and even for UK domestic services.

One wonders why the handling agents gave a release to the aircraft through their dispatcher when they had not completed their ground arrangements, namely taking and loading the passengers baggage. If they're not ready, don't sign the release. This is a legal document and Ryanair Ops cannot bluster you to give it to them, or if they try that's another reason for the UK CAA to have it out with them. The baggage loaded when the pax were not is a separate matter (and given the baggage delay difficulties I wonder how this was happening). Anyone who has been through a CAA inspection will know they are hot on an operator they feel does not have the resources to handle their operation effectively, and this is exactly what is happening here.

JKKne
2nd Aug 2009, 23:40
he following routes are still running:
NCL-DUB - has been operating since 2003 and in recent years Aer Lingus have dropped the route twice



EI haven't dropped NCL, they only operate it within the winter season, apparantly football related according to EI's own customer service

Ryanair have cut back on the flights to Dublin from NCL to once daily aside from Fri-Sun and the flighttimes are crap

The presence of jet2, easyjet and flybe are probably enough for NCL but I certainly don't see FR at Teesside as base. If Alicante can't last all year round what hope for any other route?

Shamrock350
3rd Aug 2009, 00:25
EI haven't dropped NCL, they only operate it within the winter season, apparantly football related according to EI's own customer service

Aer Lingus dropped it earlier this year, they originally announced it would continue throughout the summer but then decided against that before cutting the route entirely. If Ryanair have had to make reductions it seems the route can only just about sustain carrier.

Nakata77
3rd Aug 2009, 02:58
Think about it...which airports are commercially embarrassed right now through lack of services or withdrawn routes? These are the kind of airports that would be willing and desperate enough to offer Ryanair a completely free deal on airport charges - and a long term one at that. I can only think of FOUR in that desperate state (that also have appropriate runway lengths)

Carlisle (South of PIK, would explain why PIK cut back so much)
Durham Tees Valley
Kent International
Coventry (this is less likely, but they must be desperate)

WELSHGUY40
3rd Aug 2009, 10:34
who knows cwl only got one lowcost and thats baby which are shit and they dont do much for cwl

BALLSOUT
3rd Aug 2009, 11:11
Won't be Carlisle, It has little or no approach facilities and I doubt if the runway/taxyways are even capable of taking a 737.
The reduction in Prestwick flights is simply an adjustment, some flights are now from EDI instead of PIK, but PIK is getting lots of new holiday type flights to replace them.
I think which ever airport they chose, the flights will be mainly to holiday destinations.
My bet is on a North or North East base as this is the big gap in the UK network. Leeds, Doncaster, Teesside or Newcastle.
As airports seem to be protecting existing carriers by not allowing competition on existing routes I would say MME offers the best possible route structure, and they could steal passengers away from NCL and LBA. Not to mention the fantastic deal they would get, allong with their existing working relationship with it's owners at Liverpool.

mickyman
3rd Aug 2009, 12:36
ASFKAP

Flexability in business enables you to meet new challenges.
Ryanair has shown itself over the years to be able to
change tack and still come out on top.

If you dont admire their strengths and just critisize them for
alleged PR blunders etc your missing the bigger picture.

And again all this moaning about the airline can be alleviated
by simply not flying with them - all your problems would be
over in an instant.Just think........no more time complaining
about this and that ........you could get on with 'other'
stuff.........go outside and breath in some fresh air.......
enjoy life.

MM

apaul
3rd Aug 2009, 13:05
A shame you weren't stuck in Stansted on Saturday, MM. It would have given you plenty of time to chill out and admire Ryanair's 'flexibility'.

mickyman
3rd Aug 2009, 13:43
ASFKAP

It will be very interesting to see how the airline shifts into newer
markets throughout Europe in the coming years - I agree.
Concentrating your efforts in other areas will bring challenges
to be overcome and as I said before - the airline has managed
(sic)to deliver results from difficult situations in the past.

apaul

I was not at Stansted when the unfortunate incident(s) happened
but hey! nobody died!!

MM

Skipness One Echo
3rd Aug 2009, 14:12
The reduction in Prestwick flights is simply an adjustment, some flights are now from EDI instead of PIK, but PIK is getting lots of new holiday type flights to replace them.

Nope, routes and numbers are well down. Eight routes dropped, four added as compared to this summer, that is taking into account seasonal reductions as well!

Evileyes
3rd Aug 2009, 16:16
Catfight posts removed. Need we say more?

And now back to the topic please.

The mods.

eu01
3rd Aug 2009, 16:43
It used to be all about finding a small regional airport (within 100km of a large population centre or catchment area) with cheaper handling fees than the main airport for the particular area, and establishing a series of routes between there and a series of other small regional airports (within 100km of a large population centre or catchment area) likewise with cheaper handling fees than their respective main airports then pass on the savings to the passengers by way of cheaper fares....:confused:

Now it seems to be all about finding a regional airport ANYWHERE that offers them zero handling fees and charges and establishing a series of routes between there and ANY other regional airport ANYWHERE that offers them zero handling fees and charges
ASFKAP, you have been "chronically" critical about using minor regional airports. For example in 2005 you wrote:

Hi,
Has anybody heard rumours about a possible opening of a Ryanair crew base at Strasbourg? I've 'heard' of a place called Strasbourg so it can't be there,
are there any former cold war air strips about 50 miles from Strasbourg in a place that no one can pronounce, never mind heard of before?
Contrary to you, I do appreciate the "hidden" potential of many small regional airports. They are important for local communities and they are often pretty close to some valuable tourist attractions. For example, I have nothing against flying to Bergamo instead of Malpensa, the traveler can find as much interesting monuments there as in proper Milan area, with some charms of nature on top of that. Why not see some Lübeck attractions on the way to Hamburg, and so on. I do not see any misconception here.

If only Ryanair tried to use the "dormant" potential of these places providing local people with some connecting fligths... Unfortunately, it's out of question for now, as it seems.

davidjohnson6
3rd Aug 2009, 17:07
eu01 - I compeltely agree with you on visiting the less well known places in Europe - so far this year I've very much enjoyed visiting Agrigento (near Trapani), Tarragona (near Reus) and the Pont du Gard (near Nimes) amongst others. Even much maligned Prestwick allows one to easily and cheaply get to Stirling and visit a much underrated castle.

However, some places really are miles from anywhere remotely interesting - it takes 30 mins on the (not on weekends) bus from Hahn to get to anywhere even remotely interesting and over an hour to get to somewhere of more than minor interest. There really is absolutely nothing of interest in places like Lautzenhausen or Sohren (walking to these villages seemed more interesting at the time than waiting for 3 hours at HHN !)

eu01
3rd Aug 2009, 18:03
There really is absolutely nothing of interest in places like Lautzenhausen or Sohren Go to Traben-Trarbach, Bernkastel-Kues or Trier instead. Otherwise, HHN could provide SOME connecting flights (but as above, due to the "puristic" approach of FR it doesn't seem realistic at this time).

Shed-on-a-Pole
3rd Aug 2009, 18:51
hi davidjohnson6,

Hahn is in the Hunsruck region which is excellent for cycling or hiking. I found Sohren to be a very pleasant base for a short break (very nice family-run hotel there). As an aside, the coach station adjacent to the terminal at Hahn has an excellent range of connections. I took a short break from MAN with Ryanair for a very low basic fare, and being familiar with the M.O. managed to avoid assorted fines and surcharges, so keeping the price reasonable. No complaints overall.

Cheers, SHED.

mickyman
3rd Aug 2009, 19:11
ASFKAP

Perhaps he hired them whilst there?

MM.

davidjohnson6
3rd Aug 2009, 19:17
Shed - I've spent much (dull) time at Hahn's coach station or in the Lucky Luke bar in Latzenhausen killing time between a coach having arrived and catching a plane out. The point I'm trying to make, is that while places like Trier, Koblenz, the Rhine, Mainz, Heidelberg, Worms, Speyer, etc... can be reached by coach from Hahn, they all seem to involve a s*ddin' long time on the coach, or a coach that goes infrequently, necessitating much time wasting at Hahn.

Stansted may not be next door to London, but it's not exactly far away from some things of interest. Hahn by contrast needs at least 30 mins (and more like an hour or more) on the bus to get anywhere of cultural interest !

mickyman
3rd Aug 2009, 19:38
davidjohnson6

And yet Ryanair have flown there for quite a few years have they not -
so some people think its ok.

MM

mickyman
3rd Aug 2009, 19:47
I have this vision of a bus station where everyone wonders around waiting for the next bus to arrive,with riot scenes as they all rush to get on one that does arrive,then finally the driver gets the doors closed and zooms off-into the fog which roles along the station windows with the motion of the bus.Leaving the unlucky ones dragging their carry-on baggage behind them waiting for the next one to come.Circling around aimlessly waiting........and then another plane dumps its contents onto the forecourt and leaves.

It could be a film called 'Bus station of the damned'.

FutureCC
3rd Aug 2009, 20:16
I was flying on Saturday from Stansted to Faro on the 10:35 Ryanair flight (which was delayed due to extremely slow boarding and baggage!) The desks open were about 6. The queues were getting big even at 7:30AM, one check-in desk required an engineer to fix the baggage conveyor. So for at least 30 minutes it was 5 desks. Although, it wasn't a nightmare - it wasn't as good as usual.

Other desks had the screens saying RYANAIR but no one there...

Personally, I found the problem with Swissport at Gate 88. The inbound flight was disembarking passengers, whilst people were already forming a sort of half moon around the desk waiting to board to Faro. Then only ONE boarding staff was performing the checks on passports and boarding passes. Eventually, everyone got on - but this was the problem.

She called for priority passengers but everyone just went up.

Nothing at Gate 88 (or any gates there) to divide the passengers coming off the aircraft to those waiting to board.

However, the manager at the time at the check-in was dealing with the queues very efficiently and effectively.

I still love FR! But this particular journey wasn't the best! In the end, landing in Faro 1 hour 30 minutes late.

CabinCrewe
3rd Aug 2009, 20:23
At least you wouldnt have got that dreadful ontime fanfare...almost worth the delay

BFS101
3rd Aug 2009, 21:05
At least you wouldnt have got that dreadful ontime fanfare...almost worth the delay

How true :D:D. Not an hour and a half though, maybe just 15 minutes!!

inglebyboro
3rd Aug 2009, 21:08
My 3 choices would be:

London (North) - Durham Tees Valley
Glasgow (South) - Durham Tees Valley
Amsterdam (North West) - Durham Tees Valley


;) ;)

Skipness One Echo
3rd Aug 2009, 21:13
Nothing at Gate 88 (or any gates there) to divide the passengers coming off the aircraft to those waiting to board.

Not an issue, it's a domestic gate so no need to seperate the passengers. You get what you pay for mate.

racedo
3rd Aug 2009, 21:21
BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Foyle and West | Bird strike forces plane to land (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8182583.stm)

Bird strike on a LDY-BHX flight with an unscheduled landing required at DUB.

Expressflight
4th Aug 2009, 07:39
daz211

It's impossible to operate the 738 commercially out of Southend - just check the declared distances.

Flying_Frisbee
4th Aug 2009, 08:14
Skipness One Echo Quote:
The reduction in Prestwick flights is simply an adjustment, some flights are now from EDI instead of PIK, but PIK is getting lots of new holiday type flights to replace them.

Nope, routes and numbers are well down. Eight routes dropped, four added as compared to this summer, that is taking into account seasonal reductions as well!

Agreed, I've been trying to book flights between PIK and HHN recently and I've never known known it so difficult to find flights. For various days I tried, more often that not, the booking page tells me no fights are available. Another thing I notice is that now, the flight times are different for different days, which never used to be the case.
I've been using FR on this route almost since it opened, and it's never been as bad as this. Either there's been a huge jump in bookings, or there are substantially fewer seats available.

Charlie Roy
4th Aug 2009, 09:15
Stockholm Skavsta - Oslo Rygge [2 x daily - big win for Rygge]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they tried Skavsta to Torp before. But indeed, Rygge is probably better positioned than Torp.

exloadie
4th Aug 2009, 09:16
Problems brewing at LPL with Servisair wanting to cut 23 jobs despite Ryanair announcing new flights???,I hear a strike ballot has taken place over this,its not a case of people being millitant,its a case of apron staff doing more work since their transfer from LPL airport for no extra pay and none asked for but they (Servisair) want to "boost" profits.

stormin norman
4th Aug 2009, 09:25
Unfortunately Strikes and Liverpool go together like fish and chips.

Bucephalus
4th Aug 2009, 10:04
We'll have less of those comments thank you very much!

Seljuk22
4th Aug 2009, 10:13
From 25th Oct FR starting NYO-RYG and NYO-CRL both double daily.

djp
4th Aug 2009, 10:37
Hahn is OK once you get a hire car you can be out and about onto a couple of nearby motorways very quickly .

OK it can get very very cold in winter .

But I just love the bunny footprints in the apron !

pee
4th Aug 2009, 10:41
New route

Stockholm Skavsta - Oslo Rygge

Correct me if I'm wrong but they tried Skavsta to Torp before.
Yes indeed, they used to fly from NYO to TRF and had to cancel. There were quite a few routes inside of/from Scandinavia that didn't work as expected. Like NYO-AAR or NYO-TMP. I think formerly FR has been very reluctant to restart the "failed" ones, as if it was offended by any fiasco, nowadays we can observe that from time to time the same or similar do return.

I think there is no reason to generally avoid re-trying some of these less successful ones. For example, if NYO-TMP wasn't first ever Ryanair's route to Finland, it could have succeeded. But right at that time FR has been more or less unknown in Finland, the press was very critical towards them, people found it strange to use a cheap carrier (is it safe?) while Ryanair tried immediately the twice-daily flights. Hence, sometimes it could pay to try again in different circumstances, you never know.

Jippie
4th Aug 2009, 11:01
Interesting to see Ryanair starting 2, 2x daily flight from NYO in the winter while they usually only start low frequency(less then daily) routes.
RYG might be better positioned then TRF, not only is it closer to Oslo, it's also close to the Swedish border and could draw some people from midwest Sweden.

Cymmon
4th Aug 2009, 17:46
Its good to see more competition on this Island. Hopefully the arrival will lower the fares as they are currently much more expensive than flying to Gran Canaria or Tenerife.

My only worries are how long will Ryanair stay on the route?
When does the discount for landing fees stop?
Will Mr O´leary still stay on the route if the airport does not continue with the discount as he left Fuerteventura?

apaul
4th Aug 2009, 21:21
Not sure how long Ryanair will stay, bur Easyjet, Jet2 and Monarch also have reasonable fares to Lanzarote. There's more competition on flights from UK to Lanzarote than to Gran Canaria.

bravoromeosierra
4th Aug 2009, 21:31
Newquay-Stansted doesn't seem bookable past the Summer '09/Winter '10 changeover in October, have Ryanair pulled out?

Skipness One Echo
4th Aug 2009, 22:41
Yup was announced that it was being dropped a few weeks ago.

davidjohnson6
4th Aug 2009, 23:17
Skipness - is STN-NQY being dropped just for the winter season while it's too cold to consider going to the beach (as far as most people are concerned), or is this a permanent cancellation ?

Skipness One Echo
4th Aug 2009, 23:47
I think it's a seasonal drop from Stansted but don't quote me as I can't remeber where the Hell I read it.

exloadie
5th Aug 2009, 07:51
can you inform me when the last time there was a strike at LPL? or are you just useing stereotypes again?:ugh:

rapidman47
5th Aug 2009, 08:56
Unfortunately Strikes and Liverpool go together like fish and chips.Would have been true fifteen years ago, but man you are living in the past Liverpool is vastly different now:ok:I moved up from the south

boyzinblue
5th Aug 2009, 08:57
New Routes:
OPO-FAO
OPO-FKB
OPO-NRN
PSA-BDS
PSA-TRS

racedo
5th Aug 2009, 19:43
July Passenger numbers

July 08 - 5.66 Million
July 09 - 6.73 Million
+ 19% increase

Load factor 89% unchanged

Last 12 Months to July 2009 61.3 Milllion
Last 12 Months to July 2008 53.19 Milllion
Plus 8.1 Million

Last 12 months load Factor 82%

mickyman
5th Aug 2009, 22:11
racedo

Interesting figures...........Im waiting for the ASFKAP
interpretation which cannot be long in coming!

MM

Seat62K
5th Aug 2009, 22:32
I assume that these are not passenger numbers but seats sold.

(To be fair to Ryanair, it is not the only airline to report in this way. EasyJet does, too, I believe, and there may be others.)

blueplatinum
5th Aug 2009, 23:12
There is much excitment here in LPA about the first services starting from September.

Many bets on whether they will use IBERIA or GROUND FORCE handling (do they normally just go for the cheapest or will they just piggyback it onto the existing contract for TFS?).

We also want to know if they normally put their own staff in or subcontract the supervision to a third part such as Phoenix or ServiceAir.

Can someone who understands the company ethos please enlighten us as to what is likely to happen?

Thanks.

Phileas Fogg
5th Aug 2009, 23:38
Anybody that can get excited about Ryanair arriving really does need to get out more :)

Skipness One Echo
6th Aug 2009, 01:54
racedo
Interesting figures...........Im waiting for the ASFKAP
interpretation which cannot be long in coming!
MM

Play the ball and not the man and keep the issues for the playground please. This thread can be like wading through treacle that level of playground comment doesn't help.

July 08 - 5.66 Million
July 09 - 6.73 Million
+ 19% increase

Now that is impressive I have to agree.

We also want to know if they normally put their own staff in or subcontract the supervision to a third part such as Phoenix or ServiceAir.
Outside of home base at Dublin I believe it's all handled by external handling agents.

frfly
6th Aug 2009, 07:22
Ryanair will use a handling agent, there will usually be some onefrom fr on station for the launch but once that's done an airports/regional manager will just keep an eye on things usually through email. It's all down to the handling agent. Hope that helps.

racedo
6th Aug 2009, 10:11
Obviously to draw any meaningful conclusions from the somewhat selective statistics given it would be helpful to know the yield on those 'seat' sales and also the percentage or actual increase in capacity over the same period.

If capacity increases by X and yield is exactly the same as previous then increase in passengers numbers is the same as increase in capacity.

mickyman
6th Aug 2009, 10:36
ASFKAP

If you take these figures and the profit made last quater
of £118m and compare it with (for example) BA, then you
can clearly see that Ryanair is not in such a bad state -
taking yields into account or not.

Your interpretation is again leaning towards the negative -
trying to seek solace from yields to prove validity of your
thoughts - Ryanair have trumped you yet again with their
results.

As another poster has written -they must have really p1ssed
you off when they got rid of you (dont worry its just a
negative stab in the dark!!) hey! I could be wrong.

MM

racedo
6th Aug 2009, 11:00
Once the price of that seat goes above that price range people tend to no longer use them (ie people might say I don't mind flying Ryanair if I can get a ticket for 1c but I won't fly Ryanair if I have to pay €250 for the ticket).
This is why the yield is more important than the actual number of seat sales.


A certain % of fares will be sold on promotion however hitting an 89% load factor clearly means that you will also be charging a lot of people a higher fare.

FutureCC
6th Aug 2009, 11:08
I have found that my summer flights with Ryanair this year, have been more expensive than last year. Stansted to Hahn, Alghero, Faro - this year all 3 were more expensive than last year.

But in May and June, tickets were very cheap! Stansted to Marseilles and Basel.

Still, the results are impressive. Even if they have charged passengers more - they still beat every other airline.

pee
6th Aug 2009, 12:40
Even if they have charged passengers more
FutureCC, before you can attempt any analysis or interpretation of the statistics, you actually have to collect the data. Your own good or bad luck in purchases (concerning you = 1 person) is far too insufficient to draw any conclusions. In reality, the fares have dropped.

Based
6th Aug 2009, 13:00
Obviously to draw any meaningful conclusions from the somewhat selective statistics given it would be helpful to know the yield on those 'seat' sales and also the percentage or actual increase in capacity over the same period.

Their quarterly and annual results will give an indication of yield performance. There was a 13% reduction in average fares in Q1, ancillary revenues up 13%

89% load factor in July 08 with 5.66M bookings, 89% load factor in July 09 with 6.73M bookings so approx. 19% growth in available capacity. Refer to annual results to assess the financial impact of any planes on the ground.

mickyman
6th Aug 2009, 14:07
pee

Whatever the stats say ones own experience when booking
flights is relevant.I dont think that he wanted to analyse company
performance - just his findings as a fare paying passenger.
Which is fair enough isnt it?

MM

befree
6th Aug 2009, 14:24
If the airline is "selling" 19% more seats but at 19% less per seat then it is not doing very well. A could open a pub selling very good beer at 49p/pint and I would pack out the place but make a massive loss.

Discounting is a very good way to fill spare capacity but Ryanair are undermining there income instead of just clearing spare seat.

racedo
6th Aug 2009, 15:06
If the airline is "selling" 19% more seats but at 19% less per seat then it is not doing very well. A could open a pub selling very good beer at 49p/pint and I would pack out the place but make a massive loss.

Discounting is a very good way to fill spare capacity but Ryanair are undermining there income instead of just clearing spare seat.

More makey up figures. They not charging 19% less per seats and their revenue seems to be holding up nicely, add in the fact they made a nice profit.

mickyman
6th Aug 2009, 16:14
ASSKAP

Whilst 'the city' interprets statistics - the bottom line
is the most important one.A profit of 1p is still a profit.
Indeed BA would have been grateful for such a profit
last quater would they not?

But then again - I could be wrong?

MM

Based
6th Aug 2009, 18:01
If the airline is "selling" 19% more seats but at 19% less per seat then it is not doing very well.

Not a very intelligent comment. An airline could choose to sell seats at 75% less and still do very well as long as their total revenue exceeds total costs.

A could open a pub selling very good beer at 49p/pint and I would pack out the place but make a massive loss.

Pointless analogy and again incorrect. You would only make a loss if your equivalent cost per pint served is greater than 49p.

Is that not how the City judges your performance....? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

No. It is one factor, judging by yield only would be as stupid as judging by load factor only.

davidjohnson6
6th Aug 2009, 19:03
mickyman - whether a large company makes £1 profit or £1 loss is not considered by equity analysts in itself as particularly important.

Instead, one considers how much capital (or equity) the company is using per share, the current share price, and then compare it against the profit (or loss) figures. Of course, people also consider the size of the balance sheet and (when companies are struggling) the cashflow situation. One also considers the profit as a proportion of revenues

Broadly speaking, if one deposits cash in the bank, one is unlikely to get more than a few % of interest as bank deposits are normally deemed low risk - the Govt essentially guarantees them anyway.

Investing money in airline shares is considered rather more risky, and investors will demand a much higher return on capital employed - a figure of over 10% is quite normal.

On revenues of £1 bn, the City doesn't care whether you made a profit of £1 or a loss of £1. The City does however care whether you made a profit of £50m or just £10m

mickyman
6th Aug 2009, 20:32
davidjohnson6

You are correct ofcourse in respect of the city and
its overall statistical analysis of a companies health.

Unfortunately some people on here are not able to
grasp certain aspects of business and therefore
make sweeping statements on unproven figures and
expect to be taken seriously.

Posters who try and turn all things into negatives
using spurious figures/assumptions need challenging

Mr blanket statement should be argued with for the
sake of fairness.

MM

FutureCC
6th Aug 2009, 21:32
I think a passengers experience regarding the price of the ticket is entirely relevent.

Also, Ryanair have made a profit in a time like this - yes it was not the €400 or so million that they wanted or that would be achieved in a good boom; but in a deep recesion making any money at all is, in it's own right, a blessing.

I don't think any other airline in the "Big 3" -Air France-KLM, Lufthansa, BA- have made any money. If anything, they are loosing money.

Whilst other airlines are putting expansion on hold - Ryanair is continuing to grow. Which surely, must mean more money in the bank?

Ancillary revenue has remained strong (I think this is the real money) which means passengers are still taking bags, can't fly without priority boarding, and must have those oh-so-delicous sandwiches and coffee.

Last year it was €21 million - now it is €136.5 million. Enough said.

Skipness One Echo
6th Aug 2009, 21:58
Whilst other airlines are putting expansion on hold - Ryanair is continuing to grow. Which surely, must mean more money in the bank?

That doesn't follow, you can be loss making and cut a dash for growth and survival. The issue is that with Ryanair, they have their fan boys and detractors but only time will be the judge of ultimate success. There is a real argument that this growth means they will over reach themselves.

Ancillary revenue has remained strong (I think this is the real money) which means passengers are still taking bags, can't fly without priority boarding, and must have those oh-so-delicous sandwiches and coffee.
Last year it was €21 million - now it is €136.5 million. Enough said.

Passengers are taking on FEWER bags as was the intention of hiking the prices, hence the rise... I think you are being oversimplistic. I am spending way less with Ryanair as I have gotten wise though still happy to use them.

Buster the Bear
6th Aug 2009, 22:00
Ryanair's long-term problem is travelling folk perceptions. The UK market I would wager as far as Ryanair is concerned is stagnant or in decline, probably due to the fact that folk are wising up to the subtle fees inc bizarrely, one to check in!

So what happens as the recession bites deeper and our European cousins also realise that flying Ryanair for 1 Euro is more like 70-90Euro per sector and then start looking elsewhere?

Ryanair flying from Gatwick is frankly absurd considering their anti 'big airport' stance, but when I read that Ryanair are looking at a new UK base, Gatwick it must be? (Yields, market, presence at Gatwick already, anti Aer Lingus who will have 8 planes based by winter...) Only a guess, but somewhat an educated one?

Ryanair is a not a low cost airline, but then again, which one is now?

FutureCC
6th Aug 2009, 22:40
You're absolutely correct, expansion too quickly could lead to collapse - look at Easyjet; expanding, but not so rapidly. However, look at any big Ryanair base; Girona, Weeze, Hahn, etc - when Ryanair comes, passenger numbers soar. So I geuss the model they have is proven, reliable, and trusted! 3 banks have backed the $1.6 billion aircraft finance agreement. So I geuss they are not going anywhere.

Passengers taking fewer bags? I disagree, although passenger experience doesn't seem valued - each flight I have done, most passengers check-in at least 1 bag.

In theory, ancillary revenues would fall - I think what people are not paying for is the on-board food and drink, credit card charges, and the priority boarding. But checked-in luggage is not falling.

Well, the travelling folk certainly must like Ryanair - as the passenger numbers are on the rise, and have been since Jan 09. In fact, have Ryanair's passenger numbers ever fallen?

MUFC_fan
6th Aug 2009, 22:49
Saying Ryanair is going anywhere is just wrong. They will be around for a while longer!

The reason they can open bases and see numbers flock in is because they are able to offer fares at stupidly low prices and people swarm in like flies.

I have flown with them a number of times on day trips and weekends away where I wouldn't have been able to if I hadn't of only paid £2 etc. for a seat. I know this is not good for the airline but there are passengers who will pay much more from most places as their perception of flying is still quite expensive and many who look on Ryanair see a price of £200 etc. and assume they are the cheapest and not look anywhere else.

The first reason is why it is good for the passengers and the latter is why it is good for Ryanair.

SO! Next time you are on a Ryanair flight - thank the person next to you for thinking that Ryanair would be the cheapest fare they would find at short notice which in turn has saved you tens, maybe hundreds of pounds/euros!:ok:

Skipness One Echo
6th Aug 2009, 22:50
So I geuss the model they have is proven, reliable, and trusted! 3 banks have backed the $1.6 billion aircraft finance agreement. So I geuss they are not going anywhere.

First of all it's "guess".
Secondly you're advocating a banker as a trusted man of good judgement with other people's money.
Thirdly the whole point of the bag check in fees is to reduce bags carried and speed up turn around times. Hence, fewer bags carried. If you still disagree can I have the link to the figures you are using?

I think what people are not paying for is the on-board food and drink, credit card charges,
Rubbish given the comparitively low circulation of the ONE card that they don't charge for that's not true.

Well, the travelling folk certainly must like Ryanair as the passenger numbers are on the rise Did you see the news at Stansted this weekend? Very few people LIKE Ryanair, I use them but I think they're God awful in many respects.

Google PeopleExpress and discover what happens when you go mad for growth at low cost with an inflexible business model. Not a perfect analogy but there are good comparisons.

FutureCC
6th Aug 2009, 23:03
Can you show evidence to suggest that checked-in bags are falling?
There is nothing either way, but with results on ancillary remaining strong, I can only draw the conclusion that bags are here to stay! Now that I have to pay to check-in, why not take a bag? It's a extra £20 - and if I am lucky enough to find a fare with free check-in, the bag will only cost a mere £20. Seems to be like a false friend about this reduce handling costs and fast turnaround times...

Well, there are online services which act as a Visa Electron, so anyone with a credit/debit card can use Paypal or Entropay to get a virtual card, so no one really has to pay the £10 a flight charge.

I was in Stansted that weekend, and it seemed like a lot of people were queueing at Ryanair desks, each and every passenger has a choice in the airline that he/she flies with. And more and more people are choosing to fly with Ryanair.

Well, I geuss it pays to shop around - usually Ryanair are cheapest, however on a recent flight Aer Lingus was cheaper; so I went with them!

I said "geuss" as if I said anything else, quotes regarding my age would of surfaced dismissing whatever I say.

I am only 17 -as pointed out many times before- and here is a example of being 17! I went with Aer Lingus as I couldn't afford Ryanair's price - if anyone thinks Ryanair is cheapest (usually they are) well it is there own fault if they find another airline offering a cheaper route.

blueplatinum
6th Aug 2009, 23:24
Ryanair will use a handling agent, there will usually be some onefrom fr on station for the launch but once that's done an airports/regional manager will just keep an eye on things usually through email. It's all down to the handling agent. Hope that helps.So I take that to mean that Iberia or Ground Force will operate solo without any local supervision ?

(Thanks for your input)

bia botal
7th Aug 2009, 14:59
the whole point of the bag check in fees is to reduce bags carried and speed up turn around times

Bollocks, its to make money, if only one bag goes in the hold at 10 euros then they just make 10 euros, if a hundred bags go in for free they made nothing.Its all about money, less bags also means less weight.

Did you see the news at Stansted this weekend? Very few people LIKE Ryanair, I use them but I think they're God awful in many respects.

And ryr don't give a shite if you like them or not, all they care about is your money, they know that the bag levy at the gate pisses people off, they don't care, they are collecting over 1000 bags a day and charging 30 bucks a hit, its all about the money honey.

mickyman
7th Aug 2009, 16:48
bia botal

Correct !!

MM

Skipness One Echo
7th Aug 2009, 16:51
Bollocks, its to make money, if only one bag goes in the hold at 10 euros then they just make 10 euros, if a hundred bags go in for free they made nothing.Its all about money, less bags also means less weight.
And ryr don't give a shite if you like them or not, all they care about is your money, they know that the bag levy at the gate pisses people off, they don't care, they are collecting over 1000 bags a day and charging 30 bucks a hit, its all about the money honey.

I agree. Which market is seeing poor growth? It's the UK and Ireland, the market where low fares aren't new, where the competition raised it's game, where there is no basket case nationalised carrier with government money pouring in. I suggest to you that people here are becoming wise and getting fed up of the attitiude that you display. Are you employed by Ryanair? You can't s*** on people forever and expect them to come back every time. One day they won't and you will over reach yourself. Ryanair will continue to grow for years as there are loads of European airports that need them. However as to maintaining that, one only needs to look at what happened at STN. You can only p*** off so many people mate, they won't be coming back, the one's you hacked off last year won't come back and the supply of people that haven't been dumped on is slowing. Hence your growth will slow here as people will come to HATE you.

racedo
7th Aug 2009, 17:28
I agree. Which market is seeing poor growth? It's the UK and Ireland, the market where low fares aren't new, where the competition raised it's game, where there is no basket case nationalised carrier with government money pouring in. I suggest to you that people here are becoming wise and getting fed up of the attitiude that you display. Are you employed by Ryanair? You can't s*** on people forever and expect them to come back every time. One day they won't and you will over reach yourself. Ryanair will continue to grow for years as there are loads of European airports that need them. However as to maintaining that, one only needs to look at what happened at STN. You can only p*** off so many people mate, they won't be coming back, the one's you hacked off last year won't come back and the supply of people that haven't been dumped on is slowing. Hence your growth will slow here as people will come to HATE you.

Remind me again of how may strikes and disputes BA has had since 2000 in August where thousands not 1100 people were abandoned and holidays plans screwed up.

Oh yeah but its BA not FR so thats ok then.

Based
7th Aug 2009, 17:29
The issue is that with Ryanair, they have their fan boys and detractors but only time will be the judge of ultimate success.

Ryanair has been a successful business to date and nothing can change that part of the company's history now. 'Only time will be the judge of ultimate success' is a pointless comment as time is infinite and there is no such thing as ultimate success when you operate an ongoing concern. I do accept that it's possible, as with all companies, that Ryanair may not be a success in the future, who knows!

Which market is seeing poor growth? It's the UK and Ireland, the market where low fares aren't new, where the competition raised it's game, where there is no basket case nationalised carrier with government money pouring in.

Yes these two markets are fairly saturated, growth can't continue indefinitely I'm afraid - I mean if we were seeing clear trends of increases in other airlines passenger numbers then you mightn't look quite as ignorant, but we aren't. I'm not sure what poor competition you refer to in the first place. State aid is illegal under EU rules so there shouldn't be money 'pouring in' anywhere.

Hence your growth will slow here as people will come to HATE you.

Quite a bitter comment, I find it crazy to see someone who seems to have such distain for a company continue to use them!

Skipness One Echo
7th Aug 2009, 17:39
State aid is illegal under EU rules so there shouldn't be money 'pouring in' anywhere.

Consider the case of
Olympic.
Alitalia.
Aid need not be direct aid. Only Britain scrupulously obeys all the rules of European Law passed by an institution that hasn't had the books signed off in years due to endemic corruption.

Stop calling me ignorant please, I can disagree without name calling.

Remind me again of how may strikes and disputes BA has had since 2000 in August where thousands not 1100 people were abandoned and holidays plans screwed up.
Oh yeah but its BA not FR so thats ok then.

Good point and a fair analogy, I hope WW hammers BASSA into accepting market rates and the dinosaurs are paid off. It's easier to run a 21st century airline without the contracts of the 1970s. Two wrongs do not a right make!

racedo
7th Aug 2009, 17:56
Good point and a fair analogy, I hope WW hammers BASSA into accepting market rates and the dinosaurs are paid off. It's easier to run a 21st century airline without the contracts of the 1970s. Two wrongs do not a right make!

I agree and you def not ignorant, an idiot some times but then again who is not :).

Were Ryanair a British airline and MOL a member of the establishment, he would be viewed as a great British success story. An element of the media hate, even from those who have never used him, comes from his unwillingness to become part of the establishment unlike Sir Stelios. The Media hate people who don't do defference to their supposed power as in the we make you, we can break you syndrome. MOL I think is well aware of this and uses it to his advantage all the time and wants to be seen as anti establishment, the only Palace I reckon MOL will ever visit would be Crystal Palace.

racedo
7th Aug 2009, 17:59
Aid need not be direct aid. Only Britain scrupulously obeys all the rules of European Law passed by an institution that hasn't had the books signed off in years due to endemic corruption.


AF and their big cheque every year to provide X number of seats for the french military in the event they may be called upon. €1000 a seat was the figure I used to hear, never proven of course but you have to admire how the french work in their own inimitable way.

Based
7th Aug 2009, 18:12
Consider the case of
Olympic.
Alitalia.
Aid need not be direct aid.


Considered, however as I say state aid is illegal. My main difficulty here is how these examples are supposed to be a positive external factor for Ryanair, as you seem to have suggested in a previous post. Surely operating in a market where there actually is a 'basket case nationalised carrier with government money pouring in', is more difficult given the unfair competition.

Stop calling me ignorant please, I can disagree without name calling.

Apologies if I've offended you, I wasn't name calling. Of course you're entitled to disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong though but you seem to be suggesting that one of the reasons that Ryanair is experiencing poor growth in the Irish and UK markets at the moment is because that competition has raised it's game. I believe that this displays a level of ignorance - as in being unaware or uninformed - as there is no clear increase in other airline's passenger numbers which would need to be the case if this claim was true. Instead this suggests simply that fewer people are flying, regardless of airline.

On a more relevant note, a new Weeze - Gdansk route was announced yesterday, commencing October 4th.

mickyman
7th Aug 2009, 18:34
Skipness - HATE!!!!

Such vitriol - go and have a cold shower man!

ASFKAP

Are you the little puppy of the double-act?

Both your views have been argued with for quite a while
on here and you both still have issues with the airline.
I have tried to argue using some kind of balance as my
meter and you two make blanket statements most of the
time that are not bournout by facts.Your interpretation
is always a negative one and as such is not a fair reflection
of the facts.The facts speak for themselves but you two
continue this campaign of abuse.

You now show yourselves to be little-englanders when
discussing this airline which is possible the most pan-european
on the continent.Why do you think that England is the most
important country to any airline - is it because you just so happen
to reside in it!
Ryanair is a great success story from the early days of BAC1-11's
upto now with their hundreds of airframes - It should be celebrated -
allowing people to travel far and wide.
It would be hard for any airline to grow so much in a relatively short time without stepping on some toes - but that doesnt mean we should
be ready with the dagger in hand everytime.

Based - a good post.

MM

mickyman
7th Aug 2009, 21:19
ASFKAP

Why have you posted a link from an American site
relating to 'Risks' of fuel hedging from the years 2005/6?
Are you really having to research that far back for your
dubious opinions?

It seems you are getting more and more desperate.....
you poor thing.

Listen....when the sh1t hits the fan its only an airline that no-one
is forcing you to fly on.......so chill.

I dont usually forget my E's !!

MM

Hawk
7th Aug 2009, 22:19
We are getting sick of the constant sniping. A few of you have had your posts edited and there has been one ban. Either discuss the topic in a mature and professional manner or take yourselves away from the thread for a while.

Thank you
(AA&R Mods)

bia botal
8th Aug 2009, 13:32
You can't s*** on people forever and expect them to come back every time.

Its not called sh%*ing on them it's called training them. At the moment ryr want rid of hold baggage as a means to reduce weight and to be able to bargain with airports on fees. Of course there are flights where people will always want to have extra bag's, ie, weeks in the sun and for some strange reasons the polish and Lithuania's have a strange desire to travel with all they own. ryr know this and of course gladly take the money.

One day they won't and you will over reach yourself

Only problem with that dear boy is that by the time that day comes(if it comes at all, considering that in the future there will be a new ceo and a different approach to consumer relations)ryr will be the dominate player with very few competitors.

Ryanair will continue to grow for years as there are loads of European airports that need them

Correct! and as you stated yourself,Which market is seeing poor growth? It's the UK and Ireland
And yet we still managed a first 1/4 profit, whilst the BA lost 100million in the 2 most profitable months of the year, the very airline that people like yourself predicted the traveling public would go in there masses to get REAL value for money, My arse they did, they stayed where they KNOW they get value for money.

Ryanair will continue to grow for years as there are loads of European airports that need them. However as to maintaining that, one only needs to look at what happened at STN

What? What happened in STN. That the UK economie collapsed because of the recession. Oh and the fact that they bet the kitchen sink on a unnecessary war. All of which lead to mass unemployment thus less people traveling. The recession will end, and people will again feel the urge to visit there overpaid undervalued house by the golf course in the desert somewhere in Spain. And then stn will revert back to it's usually conveyor of ryr aircraft movements.

You can only p*** off so many people mate, they won't be coming back

Wrong they keep coming back.I use them but I think they're God awful in many respects.
And as already mentioned ryr don't care.

Remind me again of how may strikes and disputes BA has had since 2000 in August where thousands not 1100 people were abandoned and holidays plans screwed up.

SAY NO MORE!!!!!

mickyman
8th Aug 2009, 13:55
ASFKAP

So this document is unique to Ryanair ?
No other airlines write such documents
to enable them to solve future problems?

If Ryanair hits turbulence in the future
we will see what happens.

The world was a different place way back in
2005/6 but to make use of such a document
to back up your critical view of Ryanair is
stretching credibility somewhat.There was no
recession in 2006 - fuel hedging has always
gone on and always will.

Ryanair carried 60m last year - recorded a
healthy profit last quater - stop flapping.

MM

Skipness One Echo
8th Aug 2009, 15:42
What? What happened in STN. That the UK economie collapsed because of the recession. Oh and the fact that they bet the kitchen sink on a unnecessary war. All of which lead to mass unemployment thus less people traveling. The recession will end, and people will again feel the urge to visit there overpaid undervalued house by the golf course in the desert somewhere in Spain. And then stn will revert back to it's usually conveyor of ryr aircraft movements.

They bet nothing on the war(s) as they did it non the cheap and cost nought. It is only now they are having tp pay. You need to be careful as you have just quoted the official Ryanair mission statement about fleecing the drones and them being stupid enpugh to come back for more on a public forum. Won't Ducksy be cross? No he'll be pleased.... As MickeyMan said the world 2005 / 6 was a different place. By 2014, the way things are going we will have people paying to be slapped repeatedly across the gob just for the privilege of travellling with a cheap airline whilst someone from handling boots their luggage into the hold a la Jonny Wilkinson. Someone is going to write a thesis on Ryanair and public behaviour. Is there any point when people say

"Actually, enough's enough." If bia botal is right, and I concede he might very well be, people are morons and we ( me included ) are behaving like a bunch of meth heads who can't stop. "BLIMEY! Europe for free on Wednesday in Feb.Where's my credit card? You kow the one with any credit left...."

I need help I do....

Based
8th Aug 2009, 15:57
The Form 20F document you are referring to is submitted by Ryanair to the SEC every year, as required by all 'foreign private issuers' that have shares listed on US stock exchanges. The submission for the year ending March 31st 2009 is on their website along with all previous years.

If growth in passenger traffic and Ryanair’s revenues do not keep pace with the planned expansion of its fleet, Ryanair could suffer from overcapacity and its results of operations and financial condition (including
its ability to fund scheduled aircraft purchases and related debt) could be materially adversely affected. Ryanair has also entered into significant derivative transactions intended to hedge its current aircraft acquisition-related debt obligations. These derivative transactions expose Ryanair to certain risks that could have an adverse effect on its results of operations and financial condition.

The difference between this paragraph and post 4932 stating 'Ryanair's current difficulties are a direct result of over expansion in the face of a global recession plain and simple. Blaming it on other factors like airport handling charges and passenger taxes is completely false' is that one is a statement of fact of some of the risks that may impact on Ryanair's future performance, the other is a personal opinion with no supporting evidence provided to back this up. Nothing much in common at all really.

The Airline Industry Is Particularly Sensitive to Changes in Economic Conditions; A Continued Recessionary Environment Would Negatively Impact Ryanair’s Result of Operations.

Of course it would, it doesn't take a genius to work that out. Firstly, a continued recessionary environment will negatively impact on a significant proportion of companies in almost every industry. Secondly, it might seem fairly obvious to some people but 'negatively impacting' does not equate to (although it can of course) a company failing or even sliding into a period of sustained losses. A company making an annual profit of, for example, €900m before the recession but only making a profit of €200m now has suffered from a major negative impact on results but is still a viable going concern.

From the wording its clear that they're not even sure themselves of the effect of the new passenger tax yet they use it as an excuse for their recent retreat from the over saturated UK market, when I suggested this I was vilified by the cheerleaders.....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

From your wording, I think it might be you that's unsure of what's being stated in the paragraph you're referring to. Despite what might be your own preferences, it is not legally possible for Ryanair to make statements in Form 20F (or any other legal document of course) that cannot be supported with some sort of fact. They say that they believe that the introduction of these taxes 'has a negative impact on passenger volumes' - without initiating research to prove this, this is as much as they can say in this document.

mickyman
8th Aug 2009, 16:43
Based

Another excellent post if I may say.

ASFKAP & Skipness

I feel totally vindicated in challenging your views
on this airline and am glad to say more and more
posts are challenging you too.

MM

Seat62K
8th Aug 2009, 19:31
So, Skipness, as a frequent traveller on Ryanair you think I'm "slapped repeatedly across the gob".

Not the way I see it. Ryanair provides me with comfortable, modern aircraft, punctual schedules, good service and, above all, unbeatable value.

And no, I'm not a naive traveller who hasn't experienced anything else and therefore has no point of comparison. I have been flying as a passenger with commercial airlines for more than forty years and have plenty to compare Ryanair with.

Okay, I have yet to have anything go wrong. But let's say I had to find a hotel away from home at some point. Perusing just my forward bookings with Ryanair and not even considering the completed trips, I'd say I've saved between £500 and perhaps as much as £1000 compared with what I'd have paid on legacy carriers for the same journeys. Having paid for my hotel I'd still be quids in. And anyway, how often is it that Ryanair lets its passengers down in this way? Around 100 sectors to date and it hasn't happened to me. The laws of probability dictate that it can't simply be my good luck.

Ryanair does care about its public image. Only last week I heard someone from the airline on Radio 4's "You And Yours", taking flak on the Stansted check-in/bag drop fiasco and doing a good PR job. There was absolutely none of the "they pay peanuts so why are they complaining?" that some people associate with the airline. If Ryanair believed that bad publicity is good publicity it would not have made someone available for interview.

Having said that, Ryanair can, in my opinion, be its own worst enemy. All the talk about paying to use the toilet and travelling standing only confirms the bad image that some have of the company. Ryanair needs to attract these people - yet at times it seems to be giving them more of a reason never to fly with them. If I hadn't "taken the plunge", as it were, some three years ago I, too, would be set against flying Ryanair, given the negative coverage in the media.

FutureCC
8th Aug 2009, 22:07
I think that a few people are here wrong about the image of Ryanair, and that nobody comes back after they have flown there first flights.

Continued growth on passenger numbers, never a fall - not now, not last year, never. Certainly says that quite a high percentage must be coming back! Otherwise Ryanair would of ran out of European's a long time ago!

I like, the good service, modern aircraft, friendly crew, comfortable seat, and of course the unbeatable price.

I have flown on other legacy and flag carriers, and honestly - Ryanair can't be faulted, and a lot of people here know that...

Ryanair does care about it's image, as if it didn't they would not be here now.

Well, the "risks" are in my opinion not valid in Ryanair - every single airport they go to, soaring growth in passengers, revenue, and in local and national economies.

Ryanair can keep expanding, and there are more and more airports out there which are awaiting the arrival of Ryanair. The model works, has worked since the start, works now, and will work forever.

At the end of the day, if you are going to fly - you want the best value and comfort. And Ryanair has got the balance perfect.

The other airlines will go before Ryanair does, even if there image is so called "exceptional service". Well, BA... nothing but falling passenger numbers...

The (so called) World's Favourite Airline - explain the falling passenger numbers.

There is no failures in the Ryanair network.

Skipness One Echo
8th Aug 2009, 22:30
and that nobody comes back after they have flown there first flights.


I don't think anyone said that, I said that after something goes wrong and there is no assistance, people are lost. Ref MOLs famous and honest point on "you paid peanuts" so if you want a hotel and food you can er....go elsewhere.

Certainly says that quite a high percentage must be coming back! Otherwise Ryanair would of ran out of European's a long time ago!

No that's not the case as they are expanding into new markets all the time. There is a whole lot of Europe that Ryanair will be succesful in yet. My point which you haven't tried to understand, and I urge you to read before you post, is that in mature markets, my example was the UK and Ireland, Ryanair are moving aircraft and routes elsewhere where they can get good introductory rates and create a loco market.

I like, the good service, modern aircraft, friendly crew, comfortable seat, and of course the unbeatable price.

I give you price and aircraft I agree with but the seats are OK on a short sector for an average bloke, so I'm happy. The cabin crew often struggle to speak English and are on peanuts for wages. The only time I saw an aircraft's passengers laugh at the cabin crew safety demo was on a UK domestic with Ryanair when not one of the crew spoke passable English. They were actually jeered.

Ryanair can't be faulted, and a lot of people here know that...
That's just silly. There are numerous instances in this thread where Ryanair have been at fault. This is true of any business but to say they are faultless is just laughably naive. Really.

Ryanair does care about it's image, as if it didn't they would not be here now.
The CEO is a chap called Michael O'Leary and if you knew anything about him you knew he doesn't care what the detractors think and that there's no such thing as bad publicity. He enjoys baiting people.

every single airport they go to, soaring growth in passengers, revenue, and in local and national economies. Rubbish. Dublin, Shannon, Prestwick to name three. It is of course all the fault of the airports who were keen that Ryanair paid to use their facilities. Bad practice allowing your customers to use stuff for free, the benefits appear to have been overstated.

The model works, has worked since the start, works now, and will work forever. Are you sure you're 17? Work forever? Come on. Juan Trippe thought Pan Am would be here forever. Don Burr thought the same at PeopleExpress. Lord King would not have thought that BA would end up in such a mess. Utter hubris.
you want the best value and comfort. And Ryanair has got the balance perfect. Comfort? Seriously?

The (so called) World's Favourite Airline - explain the falling passenger numbers. BA haven't used that tag line since you were nine years old. All legacy carriers are experiencing massive drops in revenue as businesses and consumers cut back on spending. Ryanair are growing as they are charging less and less in the initial cost and making the revenue up in ancillary charges. They are also moving into markets with weak opposition.

Ryanair are a class outfit at what they do but what you are saying above is just palpaby wrong.

FutureCC
8th Aug 2009, 23:10
I was referring to the risks of expanding to fast, and collapsing - I read about PeopleExpress and made my judgement on comparison.

Comfort, yes!!! No problems with the seats on-board.

And yes, I am 17! I hope that wasn't a patronizing remark...

airbourne
9th Aug 2009, 01:39
Having looked at Future CC comments on the EI thread and now here, me thinks he is one of 2 people. Someone a lot older than 17 that just wants to start and argument or indeed a 17 year old with no understanding of the business and lofty ideals based on what he has seen in the newspapers or history books. I am not attacking the poster, but cmon, how much more of this drivel do we have to listen to. PPrune Pops warning on the EI thread has yet to calm him down.

airbusdiva
9th Aug 2009, 07:08
Ryanair are about to release their plans for a big expansion at LBA, seems like they are going to try and take advantage of Jet2's big cut back this winter !

toledoashley
9th Aug 2009, 08:47
Do we have anything more concrete to say that LBA is to be a base. Shame for Doncaster if it is as I am sure they would have loved to have a new based airline.

mickyman
9th Aug 2009, 09:43
ASFKAP

Nearly all of your posts are negative against this airline - why?

Is it right that someone (you) should be allowed to write such
derogatory stuff without being challenged ?
You have a right to state things as you see them but to infer
as you do often -through blanket statements - misinterpreting
official documents - personel attacks - is not on.You have posted
on a semi-public forum so should expect people to possibly not
agree with you.If your argument doesnt stand up to scutiny then
something must be wrong.

I am again wondering if your vitriol is anything to do with the fact that you are an Ex employee??

MM

zclibbens
9th Aug 2009, 13:36
You have any evidence to support this because if i recall correctly only a couple of weeks ago RYR announced that they werent going to expand any more at all due to airport prices.

So until i see it i dont believe it

EXS258
9th Aug 2009, 13:50
Thats what i was wondering. its not normally like Ryanair to do a u-turn on occasions like this. Although it would be good to see more of Ryanair at LBA.

pwalhx
9th Aug 2009, 17:27
Ryanair have said they are looking at 1 of 3 airports in the UK as a base in the next couple of weeks I believe it was said.

Interesting no mention at all on the Leeds thread of FR, which you would expect if the alleged rumour is true. Also I is there room to base more aircraft at LBA right now? I am not sure but could be wrong.

Or is it a fishing trip to get someone to say ' oh not their not they are going to open in ......?'

EXS258
9th Aug 2009, 18:01
I think there would be room for maybe one RYR ac to be based there. But there maybe a problem on a night because im pretty sure Jet2 take up most of the main apron and remote parking? i could be wrong though.

HOODED
9th Aug 2009, 18:40
There are currently 24 stands at LBA. I can only recall the following night stopping: 7 x EXS 733, 4 x EXS 752, 1 x KLM F70/100, 1 x BMIR EMB145, 1 x EZE J41. This makes 14 stands occupied, I'm sure Ive missed something here as it always looks packed at night when I go past. Even so I'm sure there are not 10 I've missed so there should be some space. FlyBE look like they're basing a Dash 8 for the LGW soon so that will reduce spare capacity by 1.

I find it hard to believe however, as Jet2 have most popular routes well covered and RYR have been complaining about wanting to do more ex LBA but can't as the costs are too high! Nothing new there then!:suspect:

pug
9th Aug 2009, 18:40
As the LBA schedules have returned for the winter could this possibly rule LBA out? Far as im aware, DSA and MME are not on sale yet (though MME do not have winter flights with FR anymore) so could the new base be DSA or MME? Perhaps they are to ammend the schedules when the decision is made hence not putting those on sale yet?

Would DSA be too close to its EMA operations to risk saturating their ow market?

They say one of the airports they are in talks with is not currently served by FR, who may that be?

HOODED
9th Aug 2009, 18:52
Both DSA and MME would make sense as RYR want cheap to operate and both airports are desperate for more trafic at the moment, my guess is both of these are more likley than LBA! Peel have one good airport at the moment in LPL, last I heard both DSA and MME were loosing money.

MUFC_fan
9th Aug 2009, 18:55
Manchester:


21st largest international airport in the world
20 million people per annum
Not slot restricted
HUGE catchment area
Growing city
Already quite profitable for Ryanair
Great access to runway (if moved to T3)
Omitted from Ryanair's "Will shall no expand at these UK airports" rant


Its only a matter of time...

Also, I'm sure FR are pulling out of DSA and MME this winter? Please correct me if I am wrong...

pug
9th Aug 2009, 18:58
I feel as though Peel may be able to push a good deal though we dont know how much financial aid they would be prepared to throw at these airports due to their big losses. The only thing is that the routes from MME and DSA have apparently been marginal at best, particularly the DUB routes.

Could MAN not be a possibility?

aidoair
9th Aug 2009, 19:02
There are currently 24 stands at LBA. I can only recall the following night stopping: 7 x EXS 733, 4 x EXS 752, 1 x KLM F70/100, 1 x BMIR EMB145, 1 x EZE J41. This makes 14 stands occupied, I'm sure Ive missed something here as it always looks packed at night when I go past. Even so I'm sure there are not 10 I've missed so there should be some space. FlyBE look like they're basing a Dash 8 for the LGW soon so that will reduce spare



That list is correct however there is usually 8 LS 737's overnight plus the the TCX A320 over the summer, not that it makes really any difference to the availability of spare stands though :ok:

mickyman
9th Aug 2009, 19:15
ASFKAP

You try and make out that Ryanair is a troubled
airline that nobody likes - I quote the fact it has
seen growth year on year and continues to do so
even in a recession so millions must like them.
You try and justify your stance by taking a document
from this airlines website and presenting it as a
'factual' piece of writing when it was clearly discussing
scenarios that every airline has to consider.
You question the airlines finances and fleet aquisitions
when they have just secured more finance for more
aircraft - from banks who are always reckless in there
lending!
You ARE an Ex employee of the airline so I think it is
legitimate of me to pose the question about your
motivations
You may not like the airline but it doesnt give you the
right to write stuff that is plainly untrue like the above.
I think that you fail to grasp the concept of a low-cost
airline and so struggle interpreting Ryanair ways.
This is different to Easyjets and for that matter Southwests.
You can keep the legacy carriers flying for yourself.

MM

Skipness One Echo
9th Aug 2009, 21:30
I'm not an ex employee and I gave a point by point rebuttal to your last post. It's hard not to patronise someone who at 17 attempts to come across as the font of all knowledge claiming that all things in Ryanair are perfect. When someone points out the inconsistencies in your position then by all means come back with an answer based on information, history or your knowledge.

You have yet to do so. MM is allowing himself to take this personally and is now in a slanging match with ASFKAP. I urge you to stick to the thread and post on happenings and goings on rather than schoolboy insults please.

As to the next base, I have the nagging feeling it may actually be a presence at Gatwick as the temptation to stick the knife in Aer Lingus may prove to be too much. The fact that the airfield is massively slot constrained won't help but the option to rain on the shamrock parade is a compelling one.

LGW_08R
9th Aug 2009, 22:07
Skipness,

I also think that the "next" UK base for Ryanair will be Gatwick. When have Ryanair ever allowed Lingus to get comfortable in a particular market. Since Lingus started Gatwick hub, we have seen Ryanair show more interest to Gatwick launch Alicante, Barcelona, Madrid, Marseille. I think Weeze came before EI announced Gatwick, but it soon went too.

It also seems that most other main Low Cost carriers have bases at Gatwick, easy, Flybe, Aer Lingus...Only seems logical that Ryanair would want in on that too.

EI-BUD
9th Aug 2009, 23:50
LGW_08R; you make some valid points here about Ryanair and LGW, however, I think Ryanair will be quite comfortable with Easyjets efforts to keep Aer Lingus in a Corner!

However, I can see that Ryanair will do a Knock style approach to Aer Lingus on markets where they compete, eg Gatwick Eindhoven, I can see Ryanair increasing frequency and lowering fares on Stansted Eindhoven to ensure Aer Lingus suffer for loads and yield. They may have increased frequency already but I am not sure.

mickyman
10th Aug 2009, 06:35
Skipness

Thanks for your concern but I can assure you
that I am not taking anything ASFKAP says,
personally.
Whilst it may seem heated sometimes its harmless
stuff at the end of the day.We are poles apart
in our stances and theres nothing wrong with
having a lively debate.

MM

mickyman
10th Aug 2009, 14:33
ASFKAP

Its down to your interpretation of the document
in that a perceived risk is a real risk.I see it as a
risk assessment but not at this time risk
management which is what you seem to think it
is?

MM

FutureCC
10th Aug 2009, 14:40
I think the document is assessing the possible risks.

ASFKAP, Can you explain what the risks actually are? As I don't think there are any...

sitgetan
10th Aug 2009, 15:29
Risk Assessment is all to do with (i) identifying the risks (ii) assessing the impact of the risk and (iii) assessing the liklihood of the risk. So when Ryanair submit their risk assessment, that are obliged to identify as a risk "what if all the customers go away?" - It doesn't mean that they think, for one moment, it will happen, it's just something that could happen.

mickyman
10th Aug 2009, 15:55
ASFKAP

You will never perhaps find that I am being logical and
consistant.Others may find that I have been so.

Please read sitgetan 5368 for clarification - once again
of my stance on this document.

MM

Based
10th Aug 2009, 16:28
I've never seen Form 20F getting so much attention! Look I don't really know where this discussion regarding it is going. The document includes a risk assessment to Ryanair and the aviation industry in general - they are indeed 'perceived risks' which may or may not ever materialise.

For example, Ryanair has included a statement along the lines of 'if growth in passenger traffic and Ryanair's revenues do not keep pace with the planned expansion of its fleet, Ryanair could suffer from overcapacity' for the last 10 years or so. It's not something new, of course it's a risk, it always has been and will continue to be under their current strategy. It hasn't materialised to date but of course that doesn't mean this year isn't the year, particularly given the proposed reductions at Stansted. In their own words:

The decision to freeze the Company’s development in the U.K. and reduce flights to and from London (Stansted) presents numerous risks. In the past, the Company’s growth has been largely dependent on flights to or from the U.K. Such flights represented 28.6% of total flights in the 2009 fiscal year. A weak U.K. economy, along with the Company’s decision to freeze its U.K. bases, and reduce its London (Stansted) flights, may affect the overall growth of the Company.


People who quote documents such as Form 20F without fully understanding them, if nothing else, just look silly. Using an assessment of risk as the only means to validate a personal opinion of what is happening right now is just not possible. Worse still, actually thinking that they are two of the same is just ridiculous.

mickyman
10th Aug 2009, 17:40
ASFKAP

You will never perhaps find that I am being logical and
consistant.Others may find that I have been so.

Please read Based 5370 for clarification - once again
of my stance on this document.

MM

BOHEuropean
10th Aug 2009, 19:32
Would anyone be able to tell me when Ryanair will release their SUMMER 2010 flights for booking, please?

Many thanks!

Charlie Roy
10th Aug 2009, 20:44
Would anyone be able to tell me when Ryanair will release their SUMMER 2010 flights for booking, please?

December - January.

Based
11th Aug 2009, 10:05
Leeds confirmed as a base from March 2010, two based aircraft, 14 new routes.

New routes to:
Carcassonne
Malta
Faro
Montpellier
Ibiza
Murcia
Knock
Nantes
Krakow
Palma
Limoges
Pisa
Malaga
Venice Treviso

apaul
11th Aug 2009, 10:08
Together with the obligatory nonsense of '1000 new jobs'. Will knock a hole in Jet2's revenue.