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Skipness One Echo
11th Feb 2009, 09:02
Actually you can also fly for £200 less with a full service airline and still get the free lager. I'm NOT kidding !

Bearcat
11th Feb 2009, 10:18
stevie9 what aload of bunkin....over priced beer and cheap pizza is the fare of a lot of loco's. When you have got your ars@ on a seat for half nothing, there's no better airline for sqeezing you for every penny re ancillarys. ....

Steviec9
11th Feb 2009, 10:25
Bearcat - completely agree but they get nada from me. Strangely, I've managed to keep life and limb together for the hour or so I am onboard without recourse to the over priced trash available. If I think there is a possibility I can't make it without food or water for a short haul, I've found that most Ryanair planes leave from shopping centres anyway (certainly in UK), so I buy what I need as I make my way to the gate at greatly reduced prices.

Abusing_the_sky
11th Feb 2009, 12:20
so I buy what I need as I make my way to the gate at greatly reduced prices.

From the shops in the terminal??:eek:

Note to self: I need to go to the terminal building more often.

MAN777
11th Feb 2009, 12:43
Boots

Meal deal

Sandwich, drink and crisps, £3 ish !!!!!!!:ok:

transmagnificat
11th Feb 2009, 16:04
and £30 to bring the bag on board

Gold Rivet
11th Feb 2009, 22:57
Any of you guys in Ryanair know the name of the Cypriot company being used to Lease aircraft from?
It should be stamped on a plaque somewhere in the cockpit (usually).

How many aircraft do they have on lease altogether?

MAN777
11th Feb 2009, 23:22
Interesting and slightly amusing forum about Ryanair

(we at pprune are much better behaved than they are !)

Is Ryanair heading for serious financial trouble? - Politics.ie (http://www.politics.ie/transport/41447-ryanair-heading-serious-financial-trouble.html)

Mrs-rodge-bless-her
12th Feb 2009, 02:43
Concerns Dublin base, anyone know whats happening?

Tight Seat
12th Feb 2009, 08:38
Aer Lingus are putting a 1bn euro deal together for the entire business.

Charlie Roy
12th Feb 2009, 08:48
Belfast City - Bristol
Gerona - Seville
Stockholm Skavsta - Toulon

befree
12th Feb 2009, 08:53
If ryanair is to go bankrupt it will take quite a few quarters of poor results. It is a real possiblity in my view as they have far too many planes on order. They can sell off the older planes but are getting millions less than expected for each plane. Ryanair is still very dependant on UK passengers and we will soon be fed up of paying £5 a pint when we go away for a weekend.

Ryanair needs to take over weaker airlines so that it can use the planes on order. The Easyjet - GB deal was a great way for them to get some growth and use up some planes.

I got the closuer of Silverjet spot on but FR is too complex to predict. It is very dependant on what deals happens with oil prices, excahnge rates and general market conditions. Maybe one of the online bookes could offer some odds. bankrupt in 2013 would be most likley but still only 10 to 1 in my view.

ryanair1
12th Feb 2009, 09:07
Ryanair continues to post record margins overall - the highest margins of any airline in the world.

I think people who hate us love to talk this rubbish, but fact is and will remain we are one of the most profitable airlines in the world.

uncontained growth, further hikes in oil, terrorism can dent but never prevent travel and low cost growth. you should be turning your attention to the likes of Alitalia. they are being propped up for emotional reasons. Nothing more.

we're a business, we continue to innovate and will lead /help other low cost airlines such as those in asia

BALLSOUT
12th Feb 2009, 09:23
befree, My six year old could have predicted the failure of Silverjet, Ryanair is a major airline, not the local flying club.
They are sitting on half the purhase price of the entire order, nice place to be. I agree, they will have to work hard to keep making money in the recesion. They may also find it harder to sell off some of the older aircraft, but that is business. In this day and age, all airlines are at risk but I think Ryanair are better placed than most.

skychef999
12th Feb 2009, 09:29
Maybe something to do with SRT Dublin as it has just been annouched that the maintenance facility will close down within 30 days!!!

AltFlaps
12th Feb 2009, 09:34
Is he about to admit that he's a complete a$$hole ?

BladePilot
12th Feb 2009, 09:35
Waiting for more news later today. I guess he'll blame it on the DAA and the Irish Government... again...

Ryanair to announce cuts in Dublin Airport services - Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/business/ryanair-to-announce-cuts-in-dublin-airport-services-1636943.html)

Latest...at 1100hrs local Irish time
Announced on Radio;

FR to hold a news conference at 1130hrs regarding cuts in Dublin services.

AndyH52
12th Feb 2009, 09:47
I really don't think Ryanair would go bust and it would be a disaster for the industry and local economies at many airports if they did. As for problems over off-loading their older fleet, don't forget they are starting the process of seeking offers from Boeing and Airbus for future fleet replacements. I'm 100% sure that the winning manufacturer acquiring the existing older fleet would form part of any such deal. Ryanair may be crass but they are not stupid...

ItsAjob
12th Feb 2009, 10:27
Maybe an announcement of a brand new huge site to park all his empty aircraft where people can go and look around!

840
12th Feb 2009, 10:41
20% fleet reduction at Dublin.

200 jobs gone.

No word on routes yet.

ICEHOUSES
12th Feb 2009, 10:44
Or does MOL think the depression is so good for lo cost outfits like FR he's confirming the order for 300 + new planes, another great decision after his great fuel hedging plan earlier..:{

Provance
12th Feb 2009, 10:51
transatlantic services perhaps ?? :}

Wee Weasley Welshman
12th Feb 2009, 10:51
SR Technics to close Dublin hangar apparently. Something like 1,200 engineering jobs up in smoke.

Shocked reaction to SR Technics closure - The Irish Times - Thu, Feb 12, 2009 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0212/breaking36.htm)


Is this related to the MOL announcement scheduled for now?

WWW

positive
12th Feb 2009, 10:55
Ryanair has announced cuts in its summer schedule at Dublin Airport, saying this will result in the loss of 200 jobs among pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

It has blamed the Government's decision to bring in a €10 travel tax from April.

Ryanair will cut the number of planes based at Dublin from 22 to 18. The airline earlier this month announced cuts in its Shannon services.

Lord Lardy
12th Feb 2009, 10:59
It has blamed the Government's decision to bring in a €10 travel tax from April.


And yet again the blame lies with external influences, and not their own.

Tooloose
12th Feb 2009, 11:16
"Ryanair....are not stupid"

Neither are Airbus. They told them where to stick their 400 aircraft order.

ericlday
12th Feb 2009, 11:26
RTÉ News: Over 1,100 jobs to go at SR Technics (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0212/srtechnics.html)

leeds 65
12th Feb 2009, 11:36
'200 jobs gone'

I presume these are not full redundancies but '200 jobs moved' to other bases around Europe.

The media LOVES bad news and they HYPE it up Big time

potkettleblack
12th Feb 2009, 12:01
Or does MOL think the depression is so good for lo cost outfits like FR he's confirming the order for 300 + new planes, another great decision after his great fuel hedging plan earlier.

And telling the world that you r*ped boeing over the 737 purchases has proved a silly move. He is now screwed with Airbus publicly stating that they have no intention to offer a discount but would be more than happy to sell him aircraft at normal list prices. I think a lot of the world are waking up and smelling the roses and realising that it isn't good for your health to do business with MOL.

Bootcamp
12th Feb 2009, 12:20
DUBLIN (Dow Jones)--Irish low-budget airline Ryanair Holdings PLC (RYAAY)
Chief Executive Michael O'Leary said Thursday he wants his staff to take a pay
cut of between 5% and 10% this year, and said he'd already taken a pay cut "far
above" that amount.
Speaking at a press conference, O'Leary also said he will also take a
"significant write-down" on his company's investment in Aer Lingus Group PLC
(EIL1.DB) in Ryanair's end-of-year results.
Ryanair has spent around EUR400 million on its stake in Aer Lingus at an
average price of around EUR2.40 per share. It has written down the investment
to EUR1.00 per share and sees Aer Lingus shares hitting EU0.50 and EUR0.75.
"If I had my choice, I'd write it off completely," O'Leary told Dow Jones
Newswires on the sidelines of the pres conference, "but accounting rules don't
allow you to write it off completely."
He said it was "highly unlikely" that Ryanair will make a third bid for Aer
Lingus. Ryanair's EUR748 million, EUR1.40 per share bid for Aer Lingus was
rejected last month. The airline still has a 29.8% stake in Aer Lingus.

Bootcamp

vkid
12th Feb 2009, 12:57
Interestingly MOL was just on Newstalk and said if the government remove the 10Eu tax or change it to a % of the fare, he will reverse the cuts at DUB and SNN in March..otherwise they stand.

elle may clampit
12th Feb 2009, 13:49
This is priceless - or just plain irish - true colours are hoisted high in SNN and DUB by the bloke that the Irish Govt briefly flirted with recently for the position of National Minister for Aviation!!

boyzinblue
12th Feb 2009, 13:56
Another 4 aircraft from Dublin to be moved to European bases...:D
Off to Italy again?

Seljuk22
12th Feb 2009, 13:58
Ryanair confirms the DUB reduction on their homepage. First SNN then DUB and tomorrow maybe Cork, Kerry and Knock :hmm:

What about STN? FR reduced a lot at STN like DUB this winter. How many a/c will there be this summer?

Are there more a/c at GRO because of the new routes to VST and SVQ? How many are there this summer? Something about 10 I guess.

Thanks!

Sikpupi
12th Feb 2009, 14:35
...I don't see anything in his release about Cork, Kerry or Knock???

840
12th Feb 2009, 14:52
I can't really see them doing much at Cork or Kerry

Most of the routes from those two airports are among the company's cash cows. Perhaps Kerry-Hahn and Cork-Carcassonne could be in trouble. Otherwise, they could close the Cork base and operate Cork-Dublin with Dublin-based aircraft and Cork-Gatwick on a W.

Knock would potentially have more to lose. All routes from there other than Stansted must be quite marginal.

Seljuk22
12th Feb 2009, 15:04
I think if FR reduce capacity at DUB and SNN it is because of the new tax. So if this is true there could be reduction at Cork, Kerry... too. If not then the tax is not the reason why FR cuts at DUB and SNN...in my opinion. Maybe the routes out of SNN and DUB aren't profitable any more and FR needs something to justify the cut backs?

EDIT: I don't hope that they will cut anything but if FR won't pay the tax they have to.

Charlie Roy
12th Feb 2009, 15:06
At Shannon last week they said cuts and Dublin, Kerry and Cork would be announced this week.

840
12th Feb 2009, 15:15
Seriously, what are they going to cut from Kerry?

Dublin? This would put them in breach of their CSO obligations
Stansted? That's their most profitable route from the airport
Luton? Possible, but I still reckon they make a decent amount of money on the route.
Hahn? Probably the most likely to go, but it would mean the Kerry-based aircraft being unused for part of the day

racedo
12th Feb 2009, 15:29
Its a very clear drop the 10 Euro tax or lose the jobs......can't be any clearer than that.

Given the other job losses at SRT plus the reporting of very high unemployment I think the Irish Govt may have to look at this quickly and seriously.

Dangerous brinkmanship.

vkid
12th Feb 2009, 15:57
" I think the Irish Govt may have to look at this quickly and seriously."

You'd think, but if recent performances by the 2 Brians are anything to go by, i wouldnt expect much change. Clueless springs to mind!

Lord Lardy
12th Feb 2009, 15:58
Its a very clear drop the 10 Euro tax or lose the jobs......can't be any clearer than that.

Given the other job losses at SRT plus the reporting of very high unemployment I think the Irish Govt may have to look at this quickly and seriously.

Dangerous brinkmanship.


There are plenty of other airlines out there who will be willing to take up the routes and fill the gap in employment. Ryanair are not the be all and end all thankfully. There won't be any climbdown on this one by the government. The SRT situation is a completely different issue and whether there is a climbdown or not has nothing to do with this so called tax.

Sikpupi
12th Feb 2009, 16:16
Jaysus...between the Civil Servants saying they're discriminated against, the Farmers saying they have been short changes, the Teachers saying why us..... and now MOL thinks that the €10 is coming out of his pocket. Wow...how does a Minister get it so wrong!!! And all the time .. the BAnks are getting away scott-free (and getting a payrise to boot)

On the back of a fag-packet:- How much Revenue will this €10 bring into the exchequer??? €150 Million??? Surely our Tourist Industry is worth investing in and a Direct Tax like this is not good news. Again - a badly thought tax for the fact that it is not applicable to Ferries and Sea Traffic. He can only keep dipping into the tourist Well for so long and on top of bad weather, bad roads, high restaurant prices, dear beer, questionable value for money accommodation - this is all we need to attract tourists ANOTHER €10 PLEASE.


He will have mnore problems on his hands if we continue to have a fall in visitor numbers. There is a domino effect here and a fall in numbers = fall in hotel beds = fall in dining out = fall in employment = fall in taxes = = I don't need to go on.

Ohhh Caithlin mi bhuireen ...what has this government done to you!!!

45989
12th Feb 2009, 20:25
Racedo.
Dump any shares or options quickly

S**t = Fan

racedo
12th Feb 2009, 21:49
45989 - Thanks you for your concern.:ok:

Have got no shares or options in FR.

More into property via Auctions, returns are way much better, got nice 3 bed where mortgage less now than cost of a free flight x2 with FR, incl priority boarding, checking 2 bags and using MC to pay.......yup less than £50. Just wish I had a load like that.:ugh:

Gold Rivet
12th Feb 2009, 22:02
You'll be sorry!

MAN777
12th Feb 2009, 23:01
Sikpupi

You have hit the nail on the head,

This is my view and probably the view of many UK residents

My funds are tight and casual trips are now quite rare, when I do travel, I go to where my money gets me the best value. Ireland has been an expensive place to visit for a few years now but I still came because I thought Ireland was a stunningly location. It still is a stunning place but that can now longer compensate for the expense of everything there, the Euro exchange rate is detering us from visiting, not just Ireland but all euro using countries.

The last thing we Britons want is yet more taxes to pay !

BUT inversely the UK is a bargain place to visit for all you Irish, so is 10 euros a big price to pay for locals coming out of the country ?

turas
12th Feb 2009, 23:45
I can't see Cork-Carcassonne getting the chop -- fares are sky high and it must be a real cash cow for Ryanair. I could see Liverpool or Gatwick going before Carcassonne. Maybe Dublin could be scaled back, now that Aer Arann have partially retreated.

Based
13th Feb 2009, 00:20
There are plenty of other airlines out there who will be willing to take up the routes and fill the gap in employment. Ryanair are not the be all and end all thankfully.

Lord Lardy, correct me if I'm wrong but your comments seem to be made purely in spite of Ryanair rather than based on any genuine beliefs. Ryanair are clearly cutting marginal routes in this announcement which are quite unlikely to be filled by other airlines, largely due to the fact that they are indeed marginal! Whether me or you like it or not they have the lowest cost base in the industry, combine that with their aggressive approach to achieving reduced costs at airports/obtaining marketing support and you've an unlikely scenario of other airlines filling their place on the routes they have dropped - unless, which I'm guessing not, you'd like other airlines to mimic their approach? Take Leeds for example, do you really expect another airline to replace their one summer daily reduction on the Dublin - Leeds route? I'd happily be proved wrong but I suspect it's more likely that you should get real.

Cyrano
13th Feb 2009, 03:28
Take Leeds for example, do you really expect another airline to replace their one summer daily reduction on the Dublin - Leeds route?

Actually, yes, I'd think it'd be quite feasible. Yes, Ryanair have the lowest cost base and the most aggressive marketing, so perhaps no-one else could get as many passengers as they could. But (and I'm just using Leeds as a random example) there must still be some passengers who want to travel between Dublin and Leeds and are prepared to pay slightly higher average fares than were on offer with Ryanair. Not enough to achieve a decent load factor on a 737-300, say, but perhaps enough for a Q400, or an ATR72. Just because a route is marginal on a 189-seater doesn't mean it's marginal on a smaller aircraft.

An example would be Dublin-Cardiff. Ryanair pulled off the route a couple of years back (to the sound of champagne corks in the CWL boardroom) and Aer Arann took it on. It's obviously worked out well enough for RE that they are still operating it - I'm sure the total passenger numbers are lower than with Ryanair, and quite possibly the average yield is higher, but the route is still there for the passengers who are prepared to pay a bit more.

C.

Lord Lardy
13th Feb 2009, 08:33
Lord Lardy, correct me if I'm wrong but your comments seem to be made purely in spite of Ryanair rather than based on any genuine beliefs. Ryanair are clearly cutting marginal routes in this announcement which are quite unlikely to be filled by other airlines, largely due to the fact that they are indeed marginal! Whether me or you like it or not they have the lowest cost base in the industry, combine that with their aggressive approach to achieving reduced costs at airports/obtaining marketing support and you've an unlikely scenario of other airlines filling their place on the routes they have dropped - unless, which I'm guessing not, you'd like other airlines to mimic their approach? Take Leeds for example, do you really expect another airline to replace their one summer daily reduction on the Dublin - Leeds route? I'd happily be proved wrong but I suspect it's more likely that you should get real.


With the greatest of respect Based, if you look at the Ryanair website, some of the listed flights that are due for reduction are Manchester, Leeds and the airport they call Barcelona which is Girona. Now, based on the fact that the 10 euro tax is on flights over a certain distance, two of these in fact fall under the lower bracket, so passengers will not be paying a full 10 euro departure tax to either Manchester or Leeds. Manchester is already served by both Aer Lingus and Ryanair. Load factors on the Aer Lingus twice daily Barcelona flights have always been good, with generous yield now that Clickair, the only direct competition to the same airport pulled off the route. Many of the seats and in turn alot of the generated yield on the Barcelona route coming during the summer season are from presold tickets to the 'Travel Department' company who themselves sell these seats as part of their Mediterranian cruises to the general public. If demand requires it a mid morning Aer Lingus rotation could be increased, or indeed Clickair may in fact review the route again.

A reduction in capacity by Ryanair on the Manchester route can be offset by an increase by Aer Lingus should they so choose, but the route itself is serviced far too much at the moment, especially when you consider Ryanair themselves fly to Liverpool which is only up the motorway. Regardless of the tax, one if not both of these airlines would have reduced their service on it anyway.

As a sidenote, Recently Ryanair pulled their services away from Blackpool and cited charges and fees etc as the reason for doing so. The usual spin of lost tourism by Ryanair etc ensued. Aer Arann picked up the route and by all accounts seems to be doing quite well on it. There is nothing to suggest they or Flybe won't do the same with a suitably timed Leeds-Bradford rotation with a more suitable smaller aircraft, which operate well on routes where as you say yourself the margins are tight.

As you see, my comments are not made in spite of Ryanair as you suggest. I would suggest that the routes mentioned are loss makers as they stand now and by simply blaming others it is an easy way of pulling off the route whilst at the same time gaining maximum free publicity for the airline. I can't knock them for that. For me I simply see the wood from the trees. The big picture, if you read between the lines is that attack on the DAA charges. The DAA stand to gain nothing by the tax. However as they were mentioned yesterday as part of the reason, it's quite clear that they can use these route closures as a means of raising public awareness to support dropping these charges. Again, I wouldn't knock them for this.

However, I have to admit I laughed yesterday whilst listening to the Ryanair communications spokesman on NEWSTALK FM. He was spouting all sorts of impressive figures and percentages to the interviewer, about how this has increased by 'x' percent and that their fares have decreased by 'y' amount. However, when asked a simple question whether his quoted average Ryanair fare included taxes, his answer was - I'm not sure, I'll have to get back to you on that, an answer coming straight from page 1 of Sarah Palin's memoirs. It obviously wasn't written down on the notepad in front of him. As you can see it dosen't take much to amuse me.

en2r
13th Feb 2009, 10:50
I can't see Cork-Carcassonne getting the chop -- fares are sky high and it must be a real cash cow for Ryanair. I could see Liverpool or Gatwick going before Carcassonne. Maybe Dublin could be scaled back, now that Aer Arann have partially retreated.
I can't see Gatwick getting the chop. As far as I know, Cork-Gatwick is Ryanair's most profitable route out of Cork. Also if they pulled off the route, Aer Lingus would probably replace them straight away, given their Gatwick expansion. (Theres been rumours of late that Aer Lingus might launch Cork-Gatwick even with Ryanair still on the route!). I can't see Ryanair handing a profitable route to Aer Lingus on a plate.

I can't see any reduction on Cork-Liverpool since Liverpool is less than 300km from Dublin and hence only attracts a €2 levy. Perhaps the 5th Cork-Dublin rotation could be pulled (this is currently operated by a Dublin based aircraft) but since Cork-Dublin is also only liable for a €2 levy, they can't exactly blame the levy for any reduction.

Based
13th Feb 2009, 12:18
I take the Cardiff and Blackpool points but these are cases were Ryanair has abandoned those airports completely and are, I agree, probably more suited to a smaller aircraft serving them anyway. If Clickair tried to return on the Barcelona route or Flybe on Leeds, Ryanair would immediately increase their frequencies again so it's a totally different scenario. Actually Leeds is probably the most unfortunate UK airport affected by the Irish tax as it falls just outside the €2 bracket and is subject to the €10 tax.

Ryanair will have selected to cut marginal routes for them where they don't expect to see a reaction of increased competition. Yes, they may have had to be cut from the summer schedule anyway but surely you can accept how a €10 increase in charges will accelerate this given the amount of taxes and charges they already absorb in their free/€5/€10 offers already.

JDB1052
13th Feb 2009, 12:47
Where's the beef?

This is more a way of reducing costs coming into a bleak summer without admitting that high frequency 190 seat 737s just does not work in a recession. Demand is down, so no need for frequency as the days of "we will build it and they will come" are well and truely gone. Answer - chop the network, cut costs and blame it on anything but the business model.

Why did they reduce Manchester "because of the 10 Euro tax" when it is only liable for the 2 Euro tax level being within 300km of Dublin? Other reductions on Leeds, Newcastle, Barcelona etc. but I cannot see how these all add up to four full aircraft, unless this is against some as-yet unpublished plan they had in a drawer somewhere.

Go to Dublin in July and count them in at night - 2 to 1 there will be 22 coming home to roost.

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

Charlie Roy
13th Feb 2009, 12:51
Ryanair will have selected to cut marginal routes for them where they don't expect to see a reaction of increased competition.

Exactly. If Ryanair cut/reduce Kerry to Hahn, no other airline will ever introduce a Kerry to Germany route.

ssflyer
13th Feb 2009, 15:58
Sorry,late on this thread (been faffing in ME).
What is happening with routes/aircraft at BHX and GIR??

eu01
13th Feb 2009, 18:04
This is more a way of reducing costs coming into a bleak summer without admitting that high frequency 190 seat 737s just does not work in a recession. Demand is down, so no need for frequency as the days of "we will build it and they will come" are well and truely gone. Answer - chop the network, cut costs and blame it on anything but the business model.
Agree. The Ryanair's fault is the resistance of their very own business model to the unavoidable changes. The "high frequency 190 seat 737s" could still work on some ailing routes, but under a few conditions. Like this one: apart from selling the "free flights" in the point-to-point system, the rest of seats ought to be filled by selling much more expensive connecting flights serving the locals (paying "normal" fares in return for a better service). Some other issues I've already discussed before. The FR business model's rigidity and its barrenness combined with the stubborn attitude of the management results in... well, just what we see right now. The development close to negative.

An other matter; the news spotted today on the net (here (http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/02/finavia_in_bid_to_transform_lappeenranta_domestic_airport_te rminal_546376.html)). The City of Lappeenranta and Finland’s Civil Aviation Administration – Finavia – have reached agreement on plans for the development of the Lappeenranta Airport. Fly Lappeenranta and Finavia have agreed to set up a joint limited liability company to manage the airport’s commercial operations.

Air traffic control and maintenance operations will remain the responsibility of Finavia. The goal of the new arrangement is to increase passenger traffic through the Lappeenranta airport and to open up new air routes from the south eastern [Finnish] city.

The holding company will be able to charge more flexible aircraft turnaround fees, to help position Lappeenranta as an attractive hub for budget airlines.
The low-cost Irish airline Ryanair has consistently ignored Lappeenranta as a possible stopover because of its high berthing fees. However the company has expressed interest in offering direct flights from Lappeenranta to (...) Weeze.

Proximity to St. Petersburg a Plus
“Lappeenranta’s proximity to St. Petersburg has also made it an attractive stopover option for the budget flyers,” said Finavia CEO Samuli Haapasalo.
A survey conducted last autumn for Finavia by Tampere University of Technology revealed that the population within the range of Lappeenranta airport would be enough to serve the budget airlines. About 5 million residents live within a 200 mile radius of the airport, including residents of St. Petersburg.

Currently a significant number of Russian airline passengers connect to Ryanair flights from Riga, which is served by daily bus trips from St. Petersburg and Moscow. A similar number of Easyjet passengers arriving in Tallin, continue on to St. Petersburg by bus.Don't want to sound conceited, but... I've already claimed (much earlier) precisely the same.

ara01jbb
16th Feb 2009, 13:37
Was making some searches this morning to book a flight over to BHD in March. Delighted with the £0.01 fares...

http://jamesbrownontheroad.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ry1.jpg?w=510&h=515

Guess they're being subsidised by Easyjet and Jet2 who are advertising with Google Ads on FR's own website... :E

http://jamesbrownontheroad.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ry21.jpg?w=510&h=289

pee
16th Feb 2009, 13:48
Harnessing my secondary-school level knowledge of Russian, I'll try to translate you the Russian newspaper's opinion about Lappeenranta plans:
Лаппеенранта, несомненно, сможет стать привлекательным аэрпортом для петербуржцев, так как расположена всего в 220 км от Петербурга, тогда как до Хельсинки ехать в два раза дальше. А доступность шенгенской визы для жителей Северо-Запада России сделает этот путь еще более привлекательным. Если бюджетные авиалинии начнут осваивать аэропорт Лаппеенранты, то он может составить конкуренцию петербургскому аэропорту "Пулково" в сегменте дешевых перелетов.Lappeenranta could certainly become an attractive airport for Petersburgers, as it is situated just 220 km from St. Petersburg, while the distance to Helsinki is twice as much. And the availability of a Schengen visa for residents of the North-West Russia will make this journey even more attractive. If the budget airlines will start to use Lappeenranta airport, it can compete with Petersburg airport "Pulkovo" in the segment of cheap flights.

Frankly, I'm looking at these plans somewhat indifferently now. Until recently I was trying to promote Ryanair and defend it in some situations when the angered passengers argued against it. But enough is enough. Once again, so blithely and on a very short notice they have reduced the STN-TMP flights (thousands of tickets sold) from daily to just 3/weekly. So many pax have the hotel bookings already payed for, some have the connecting flights they are unable to use any more. By reading the travel forums one can become pretty devastated indeed. Everything has its limit, including patience. Maybe in Russia FR would find less demanding customers, I don't know, but right now many in Finland is completely fed up with this attitude. Not a very good assets for a future development, I'm afraid.

INKJET
16th Feb 2009, 13:52
busy fools make no money!!

Take it whilst you can, just be sure not buy anthing at PIK that isnt in your hand luggage, other wise a packet of crisps will cost you thirty quid as a second bag!! but seriously i look forward to the day when we all will be able to fly anywhere for just 1p, Thank you dear lord and Master MOL, not sure Greenpeace will share my joy tho:8

stormin norman
16th Feb 2009, 14:14
NewGolf shot - A Ryanair

Flys well but dosn't land anywhere near where you want to be.

eu01
16th Feb 2009, 17:33
on a very short notice they have reduced the STN-TMP flights (thousands of tickets sold) from daily to just 3/weekly.
Obviously they are losing to EZY immediately after the commencement of a new LGW to HEL route. Could any tax in Finland or elsewhere be used as a scapegoat by FR to be able to blame [the governement presumably] for the [next] defeat? :p

daz211
16th Feb 2009, 17:36
How old is that old gag ?

Take a look at the FR route map and you will see more and
more destinations are to main Airports.

If people didnt want to go where FR fly they would'nt be one of
the worlds fastest growing Airlines would they :ugh:.

Skipness One Echo
16th Feb 2009, 18:00
Ryanair were *FORCED* to take the step of flying to airportts people wanted to go to on the terms of the airports themselves as they ran out of minor airports to steamroller. Look at EDI, BAA Airport, spending millions on the Terminal, you can be sure as Hell that Ryanair got a good deal but NOT a freeby.
Hence the full service passengers don't subsidise the Ryanair passengers and

FR have to pay a market rate to use the facilities. Any introductory offer is for an inital period only. This is a major shift in their business model, only time will tell where it will pan out.

daz211
16th Feb 2009, 18:28
Forced or not its fact !
Nice to see that FR have a flexible approach to business.

Cyrano
16th Feb 2009, 20:27
Daz: you're not Ryanair's press spokesman moonlighting are you? Sooner or later in any discussion on Ryanair you pop up to defend them against any and all criticism.

Just out of curiosity, in your view is there anything at all that could be improved in Ryanair's way of doing business? I'm not asking to be nasty - it's just that you've been such a consistent and unswerving defender of everything FR does, come hell or high water, that I'm genuinely curious.

Respectfully,
C.

daz211
16th Feb 2009, 20:54
I just hate the way people dig at Ryanair, I took my first flight
with Ryanair when the only routes they had was UK-Ireland
and to see how fast and big they have grown in what is such
a short time is worth shouting about.
People do not nor should not have the right to take
the pi$$ out of what is a very good Airline with a very good
well proven business model.

The amount of times FR get put down on here is unreal,
what is it? pick on the fat kid the ugly kid or the clever kid
that all the thick people could never dream of matching
never ming beating:ouch:.

How bad, how wrong, how much of a con can they be
to get so big so fast, they must be doing somethig right
or the rapid groth would never have happened:ugh:.

Noxegon
16th Feb 2009, 21:51
Notice how he didn't answer the actual question asked?

mickyman
16th Feb 2009, 22:11
Cyrano and all,

'in your view is there anything at all that could be improved in Ryanair's way of doing business?'

Ban the people who diss the airline from ever travelling with them again.

MM

davidjohnson6
16th Feb 2009, 22:23
mickyman - if one were to impose a lifetime ban on flying with Ryanair for the crime of dissing them..... then I think most previous FR customers and a large number of people in Europe would have been banned by now !

We may all diss FR and MOL at length, but sell us a ticket cheap enough and we'll fly with FR all over again (and then diss again for good measure !)

TartinTon
16th Feb 2009, 23:07
daz211...it's the usual British attitude of criticising anything that's a success..Ryanair have been and will continue to be a fantastic success story despite what some of the blinkered BA brainwashed muppets on here seem to think. You wait and see their results this year compared to everyone else. They were hedged to 0% from Jan onwards when most other airlines were between 60-90% hedged for the rest of the winter/summer at stupid rates. Ryanair got caught for the period Oct-Dec only.

They are going to make BA/EZY and everyone elses results look stupid for the rest of the year.

mickyman
16th Feb 2009, 23:10
davidjohnson6

A ban will now be imposed on you and all your kin

MM

EI-CFC
17th Feb 2009, 10:59
some have the connecting flights they are unable to use any more

Whatever about your other points, this one isn't FR's problem. They don't offer "connecting" flights, and don't try and sell them as such.

If you are depending on a flight to get you somewhere in time to get another one, Ryanair is not the way to go.

BFS101
17th Feb 2009, 11:31
After the revelation from travelmole.com yesterday about the tie-up between Ryanair and Costa Cruises...


The three-year deal, announced yesterday, will see the Italian cruise line featured exclusively on the airline’s website and more than 5O Ryanair routes connecting to Costa departure points.

Despite assurances from Costa UK managing director Marco Rosa that the deal would not undercut existing agency partners or take bookings from the trade, agents have questioned how the deal will impact Costa’s reputation.



Some responses from the trade, from the artice...

“Why would anybody want to be associated with Ryanair?” asked Jeremy Scott at Leisure Fare. “What does it tell first time cruisers and repeats about the quality of Costa?”

Other agents expressed their concerns about Ryanair’s strict baggage allowance and excess luggage charges.


“This will be interesting to see, as how long will it be before passengers realise that it is difficult to pack light for a cruise,” said Martin Owens of Instant Holidays/World Pride Travel.

“I think Ryanair's attitude to customer service is well documented,” he said. “It’s not too much of an issue if you end up getting to your hotel a couple of hours late, but its no use getting to the port a couple of hours late is it?”

airbourne
17th Feb 2009, 12:41
BIt of a non story, but worth the read anyway.

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Emergency crews put on standby for Ryanair flight

A RYANAIR flight from Birmingham declared an emergency prior to landing at Shannon airport yesterday amid fears that a tyre in the rear undercarriage had been damaged during take-off.


Flight 1313, which left Birmingham at 2.50pm on its scheduled service to Shannon, was carrying 177 passengers and crew. The aircraft carried out a low-level fly past over the airport’s main runway so that fire crews on the ground could visually inspect the landing gear as the aircraft flew past.

After nothing unusual was observed in the undercarriage, air traffic controllers contacted the pilot and advised him that he could land. The jet touched down safely just minutes later under the watchful eyes of crash crews.

The alarm was raised after ground crews at Birmingham discovered rubber debris on the runway after the Ryanair Boeing 737-800 jet had departed for Shannon. Air traffic control in Birmingham contacted the crew of the Ryanair flight to notify it of the discovery.

As the flight began its descent into Shannon, the captain notified controllers at the airport of the potential problem and requested that emergency services be placed on standby.

Units of the fire brigade from Shannon and Ennis, along with ambulances from Limerick and Ennis, were scrambled to the airport in support of the airport’s own fire and rescue service.

A Ryanair spokesperson said last night: “A piece of rubber was discovered on the runway at Birmingham airport. Air traffic control in Birmingham notified the crew of the discovery and as a precaution, the pilot asked the emergency crews be put on standby at Shannon. The aircraft landed without incident.”


Originally Posted by Limerick Post

Emergency landing for Ryanair jet at Shannon

Written by Andrew Carey
Monday, 16 February 2009 09:27


Shannon Airport emergency services were called to alert on Sunday afternoon last when one of Michael O'Leary's Ryanair planes was forced to make an emergency landing at the county Clare airport following a report from the flight deck of problems with a tyre.

On route from the UK, the pilot made contact with Shannon to say it had a tyre problem, shortly before 4pm in the afternoon.

The plane operated a circling pattern above the airport at a safe distance and landed 15 minutes after notifying the emergency services.

The plane was carrying 177 passengers and crew and no injuries have been reported.

The Shannon Airport Authority reported that the plane carried out a low-level fly past over the main runway at Shannon so that fire crews on the ground could visually inspect the landing gear as the aircraft flew past.

The fire crews had nothing to report so the aircraft was cleared for landing with no further incident.

frfly
17th Feb 2009, 12:48
Haha fr will love this....177 pax, based on around 5% no shows booked load factor was probably 100%.....another way of showing how full the a/c are!!!

pee
17th Feb 2009, 13:13
some have the connecting flights they are unable to use any more
Whatever about your other points, this one isn't FR's problem. They don't offer "connecting" flights, and don't try and sell them as such.
...or "connecting" easyjet/BA flights, trains, whatever. Everybody knows FR are not offering the connecting flights, but for the pax it's sometimes the best option to use such solutions. When the passenger does not allocate sufficient time for plane changes - it's his/her fault. If the flight is cancelled due to weather conditions or alike - it's his own risk and bad luck, nobody to blame. If the carrier changes/reduces flights already sold, it's a good reason to get furious.

Btw. The official FR's connecting flights could be a good solution to improve the LF's and profitability on some routes (I'm not the first one to notice this). It wouldn't be a big "FR's problem", it could be a win-win for them and pax as well.

MME4eva
17th Feb 2009, 13:38
Any chance of MOL et al taking pity on poor little MME and opening a base of some degree there? Even if it was W patterns or inbound flights from their European bases, I suspect they would be popular and attract punters from the NCL and LBA areas as FR's aggressive pricing will help to turn heads.

davidjohnson6
17th Feb 2009, 13:51
A ban will now be imposed on you and all your kin

mickyman - is a Ryanair ban a bit like an ASBO ? Something giving street-cred of which one can be proud, and worthy of showing off to all one's friends... ! :)

mickyman
17th Feb 2009, 20:52
davidjohnson6

If the cap fits then it must be the dunces.....

Ware your idiocy with pride.

MM

davidjohnson6
17th Feb 2009, 22:46
If the cap fits then it must be the dunces.....

Ware your idiocy with pride.

This idiot is glad he can remember how to spell and use an apostrophe !
Mods - my apologies if this is *ever so slightly* off-topic....

KENNEDY TOWER
18th Feb 2009, 12:20
From todays Daily Mail quote--Ryanair chief Michael O Leary said the airline wants to buy 200 aircraft. The carrier is in early stage talks with two planemakers, and is happy to wait untill their "order book collapses" negotiate a better deal.
The planes have a book value of about £50M each but Ryanair expects to negotiate at least 50% discount.
Any new planes would be for deliverybetween 2013 and 2016 unquote".
The planemakers are Boeing and Airbus.
Looks like going over the pond is a real possibility. :D Look out you big boys:ok:

GobonaStick
18th Feb 2009, 12:23
Are they still churning out this story? They said this in August '08. Wake up, Mail.

lexoncd
18th Feb 2009, 13:12
I like the latest Ryanair Price Guarantee....What..can only book on two days?? Check their site to see for yourself.


This offer is valid only for return flight bookings made on the Ryanair website between Wednesday 26th March 2008 and Saturday 28th March 2009 inclusive.As for the Mail story. Airbus have stated the following....taken from the FT and widely quoted

John Leahy, Airbus chief commercial officer, said: "We are not in discussions with Ryanair about aircraft. That is on the record. We don't have plans to enter a sales campaign with Ryanair, which would be very expensive and very time-consuming."

So back to Boeing who will have read with interest the comments from O'leary on his last deal, the views of Airbus and might be thinking hmmmm...does it helpBoeing when he moves on aircraft in the long run.

Noxegon
18th Feb 2009, 13:35
Looks like a year and two days to me...

EBC-S9
18th Feb 2009, 13:42
What with their recent announcement of 200 redundancies!

Mountain pilot
18th Feb 2009, 14:14
Its true - a big order soon. Type to be confirmed1

chocfingers
18th Feb 2009, 14:16
Err.. that's jobs moved ...

EGAC_Ramper
18th Feb 2009, 14:20
And Airbus chief Leahy said on the record " airbus won't be bidding.



Regards

ItsAjob
18th Feb 2009, 14:26
More spin away away from the current situation.
'Quick look over there'

Gold Rivet
18th Feb 2009, 14:29
Of course Ryanair is expanding!

Like it or not, they have 47 aircraft coming this year......:bored:

adam12345
18th Feb 2009, 14:57
Ryanair has updated the website with a new design. Its okay. :rolleyes:

BombardierCR7
18th Feb 2009, 15:08
According to Travelmole, Ryanair to cut 1 aircraft out of Liverpool and 10 routes blaming the UK government APD tax.

Lord Lardy
18th Feb 2009, 15:13
It appears Liverpool is next for the chopping board, Michael Cawley announced this afternoon.


Jobs to be axed as Ryanair cuts flights

18/02/2009 - 15:31:33
Ryanair today announced plans to cut flights from Liverpool airport, with the loss of 50 jobs, blaming “high and rising” UK government passenger duty as well as falling sterling exchange rates.

There had been a “devastating impact” on the airport, which had become a higher cost destination and uncompetitive against other European cities, said the airline.

Ryanair said its business continued to grow at airports where governments did not impose such “idiotic” taxes. The company announced it was reducing aircraft operating from Liverpool from seven to six, cutting flights and axing jobs among pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Further cuts in Ryanair’s winter schedule at Liverpool will be announced later.

Spokesman Michael Cawley said: “The combination of the high cost government airport passenger duty (APD) and falls in sterling has already created a traffic collapse at Liverpool Airport.

“The decision by the UK Government to continue to impose high charges and increase them over the next two years is completely unacceptable given the current economic climate.

“Ryanair has repeatedly called for this tax to be scrapped by highlighting that such travel taxes have failed in both the UK and Dutch markets, where they immediately resulted in traffic declines and sadly these declines look set to continue. This Government must realise you can only promote tourism by welcoming visitors, not taxing them.

“These cuts can and will be reversed if the Government’s greedy APD is scrapped – only then can we grow passenger traffic at Liverpool and throughout the UK.”


Link (http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/mhsnsnojaumh/)

MUFC_fan
18th Feb 2009, 15:23
You mean the tax that was increased for ALL UK airports including all their other UK bases and NEW bases!:=

They sometimes have a point when blaming people but that is pathetic.

Didn't it go up in January 2007? A long time since...

Why don't they just admit it, 10 is too many?!:ugh:

befree
18th Feb 2009, 15:59
A masterstroke from Airbus to keep Ryanair in with boeing. As Ryanair only buy airframes at half list price they make a very bad buyer anyway. Ryanair also spend a lot of time blameing boeing for some of the cuts in capacity when we know they have plenty of planes doing nothing.

The latest provisional CAA traffic numbers show very big drops in pax on FR routes. When the report to the stockmarket they show seats sold (some times a 1p) and not the real pax flown. The decline is looking shocking. For the airports that have reported Jan saw 7% less pax departing UK airports compared to Jan08.

A319-100
18th Feb 2009, 16:16
Everytime they have a small bit of bad news they manage to distract people by reiterating their supposed massive plane orders to make everything look rosy. Airbus/Boeing to battle it out-cutbacks at dublin. New boeing order- cutbacks at Liverpool. I would like to know what they plan to do with the 8 aircraft a month they have arriving at the moment if they are downscaling around the Uk/Ireland. Very strange :confused:

Special Limitation
18th Feb 2009, 16:55
A little birdie told me part of Ryanairs business plan involved buying A/C in large numbers to get maximun discount and selling them on after a year in small numbers, both making a profit on the deal and keeping maintenance to a minimum. It may or may not be true but in principal the deal makes sense.

INKJET
18th Feb 2009, 17:18
Now would be a good time for other UK airline to start services from the UK to Dublin, with out this gravey train the Ryanair train set is in danger of coming off the tracks.

Ryanair flys cheaper, That they do but bring little else to the party that is positive, flooding the market place with self sponsered cadets (slaves) is not good for anyone in the long term.

Even the Goverment might have held back on some airport duty taxes had it not seen the 99p fares and think 50 million paxs we'll have some of that!

Rhodes13
18th Feb 2009, 17:26
Yes lets all blame RYR for degrading terms for pilots :ugh: Never mind the fact pay for type ratings started long before RYR was on the scene. Lets also forget BMI and easyjet are partaking in pay for line training schemes shall we, something that RYR doesnt do.

Befree yes the falls are bad but I wonder why that is? Do you think that traffic is falling because there's a small economic crisis on the cards? The majors are all reporting massive falls in profits from low pax numbers.

But hey its all going tits up and the end is neigh! For all the armchair experts how would you run an airlines in the current situation seeing as you seem to have all the answers?

BALLSOUT
18th Feb 2009, 17:37
The deal with boeing requires ryanair to keep the aircraft for a minimum of five years, other than that you are correct.

757_Driver
18th Feb 2009, 18:03
typical ryaniar smoke and mirrors, however I was waiting for someone to start having a pop at APD! Just about every industry in the UK is having bailouts / protecionism / tax breaks right now - apart from the aviation industry - our taxes went up! At least someone is starting to put the excessive Air passenger duty in the media now.

mathers_wales_uk
18th Feb 2009, 18:06
Can't we talk about this in the Ryanair thread please?

Mods please merge forums!

Based
18th Feb 2009, 18:18
As Ryanair only buy airframes at half list price they make a very bad buyer anyway.

Befree, tell that to Boeing in 2001. They did have a choice in this agreement you know, they did what they felt necessary to keep their business afloat with Ryanair being the primary beneficiary.

The Real Slim Shady
18th Feb 2009, 19:23
Rhodes brings it al into perspective.

bmi were selling TRs way back in 1999: if can find the powerpoint presentation I can come up with some hard numbers, but, basically, they had spare sim capacity and came up with a ruse to utilise it.

You buy a 737 TR and we "may" offer you a job.

Sim gets used, you don't get job. EASY

airbourne
18th Feb 2009, 23:15
Hmm, Boeing V Airbus. Do you think that either of those 2 compnaies are going to fall for Ryanairs ploys a second time around. Back in 2001 before MOL placed the last minute big order with boeing, they had pretty much decided to go with Airbus. Now some might say well done Boeing for the 11th hour deal that secured those orders and saved your company.

Ryanair got the deal and nailed Boeing in the rear end. Ok, fair play to them. That wont happen again. From the airbus prespective, do you think they believe that the biggest low cost airline would operate a mixed fleet? Not a chance. Why bother bidding for the business when Ryanair already have 180ish 737s? A definate good ploy on airbus's behalf to put their cards on the table and say they have no interest in Ryanairs business. You wont see Ryanair getting the same deals they got before.

MOL's arrogance will only get him so far. What goes around, comes around. Its coming Michael...straight at you and your company. You can only blame Boeing, Governments, airport authorities, unions, pilots, the weather or the economy so much before it comes back to bite you.

Bearcat
19th Feb 2009, 08:18
good post airbourne.

pee
19th Feb 2009, 10:14
The company announced it was reducing aircraft operating from Liverpool from seven to six, cutting flights and axing jobs among pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
Oh where, oh where will LPL jet go?
According to the news from Belgium (http://www.express.be/sectors/fr/logistics/ryanair-va-baser-deux-avions-supplmentaires-charleroi/103475.htm), two additional AC will be based in Charleroi, probably from the end of March.

Bootcamp
19th Feb 2009, 10:39
Ryanair finally finalise the onboard mobile service

http://http://breakingnews.ie/business/mhsnsnojidcw/

Seems pretty expensive to use though

groundhogbhx
19th Feb 2009, 12:19
Mr Shady, you are a little out on your dates, BMFT were doing courses to use up spare slots at Coalville in 1994. Some got jobs with BM and others went to places like EZY:ok:

runawayedge
19th Feb 2009, 13:08
Ryanair rhetoric is used to fit whatever the occassion suits. NEVER will FR admit to having gotten something wrong, that creates a bad culture, especially when it comes from the top. Last week I flew with FR from STN to SNN and was apalled at what I saw.

Firstly, paid for check-in and approached check-in desk,, to be told that FR do not offer check-in anymore, that I must go to a self-service kiosk, and then return to check my bag. The desk is now solely for baggage drop, agent admitted it was causing uproar with pax. Didn't get what I paid for, is false advertising, and should be removed as a paid option when booking. Got over it and flight was delayed. Usual queues at gate, however handling staff were going through the pax and validating ID against boarding card, this surely goes against security. I was on my mobile and told to turn it off, even though the aircraft was not even on stand. Got over it.

Aircraft arrived on stand, 1 cc got off to assist in disembarkation, 1 cc to gate, and 1 cc each at forward and aft stations. Pax off boarding immediately began. This is not the first time I have noticed, but what happened to the aircraft security check on turnaround. Answer it did not happen.

All aboard, flight full as there had been cancellations the previous day due snow. It soon became obvious that there was not enough space in the overheads for all the 'large' carry on pieces. All passengers seated. There happened to be a positioning crew on-board, and along with the operating crew they were attempting to force the cases that would not fit and that were blocking the aisle (12 of them) into the overheads. Had there been an emergency evacuation, it would not have been pretty. Eventually doors had to be opened and excess headed for the hold.

In the cruise and during the service I decided to purchase a panini, order taken. I noticed the cc who had checked the toilet, was handling money etc. place an 'unwrapped' panini into the oven with her bare hands. When ready she went to the oven and got a piece of tissue to remove the panini, came down the aisle juggling my food as if it were a hot potato, with her bare hands. I didn't eat it.

Landed late in Shannon and the buggler embarrsingly announced another FR flight on time, to chuckles of pax.

So what is my point? Very simple, why are the IAA, various Department of Transport (security divisions) CAA and the relevant food safety authorities allowing unfair competition in that FR give the finger to security and other legislation, while it is rigourously enforced upon others. There is a cost to be compliant, a cost that FR choose to ignore, their turnaround times are not achievable with the resources they employ. Rules are for all, but maybe not for bullies!

MUFC_fan
19th Feb 2009, 13:21
I travelled last with Ryanair in January from GRO to LPL. Our flight landed late from LPL, even though there was only a 25 minute turn around. We were up in the air 1 minute after the scheduled departure time. How did they do it?

Well...another Ryanair flight was on stand next to our a/c and was receiving maintenance so the flight was delayed. I then saw two cabin crew come across from that a/c and onto ours as the inbound PAX started disembarking. They then went on board and we immediately started to board as soon as the last passengers left the a/c. I can only assume that these two crew members helped with the turnaround on the a/c (6 British crew members from LPL) which increased turnaround time. The Captain did his checks which I was happy about!:ok:

However...is it allowed that two other crew members make the checks. I know they are qualified (maybe even more so than the other crew who were actually operating the flight) but surely it would be a safety breach for these two to help? I am not saying this happens or anything but what if they did find something that could potentially be dangerous, but, because they are not actually flying on the plane they turn a blind eye to it as it is too much effort and they have had a long day already and they still have more to come, sure that would not comply with the international safety laws?!

Rhodes13
19th Feb 2009, 14:55
runaway edge how does boarding staff validating your passport at the gate go against security? Surely that would help you board quicker and I have seen this done at many airports from London to Australia. And again how do you know the security checks were not carried out? Where you on the aircraft to see them not done?

I love it how you seem to know it all but can you prove that the required checks were not done?

As for the bugler if the flight arrives within 15 mins of scheduled it is deemed to be on time as with most carriers.

Bags are a big problem thats why the carrier is trying to enforce the one carry on only rule (unfortunately people take the piss then get angry because they cant read!) .. as for emergency evacuation would be the same if there were pax in the aisle. How do you suggest we load the pax and bags? Two at a time? How about no bags then there wouldn't be a problem with blocking emergency exits?

If you have a genuine grievance how about you raise it with the CAA or IAA and let them go and investigate.. they will most likely tell you that we already comply with the rules as they are laid down. Have had several inspections and see them going on all the time. To suggest we as a company ignore health and safety regs in naive and fool hardy in the extreme and demonstrates your ignorance of the whole process! If we are so unsafe why do the French, Italian, German, Dutch etc etc aviation authorities allow us to fly in their airspace. Why does EASA allow us to continue to operate if we are so unsafe. It must be all those massive kick backs we are giving them :ugh:

PS As for the panini did you point out what you saw and hand it back? Lodge a complaint with the Head Cabin Crew member or company? How about lodge a complaint with the food hygiene standards agency in Ireland or England? Nope instead you waited and suffered terribly then thought the best thing to do was write a load of bull on a website.. :rolleyes:

Skipness One Echo
19th Feb 2009, 15:11
Firstly, paid for check-in and approached check-in desk,, to be told that FR do not offer check-in anymore, that I must go to a self-service kiosk

So for my next STN-PIK....I just paid to use a SELF SERVICE check in???
Geeeeezz!!!

runawayedge
19th Feb 2009, 16:11
Rhodes.....my point was that the checks were not done as the pax transited throught the gate.....when the flight was called there were no checks at the gate. As both on-board cabin crew are required to be at their stations and remaining cc were at the gate, who did the checks? the captain was doing the walkaround and the FO was completing the load sheet. I am merely stating the facts as I saw them, and I can categorically tell you NO security checks were carried out, and it's not the first time I've observed this. The flight was 30 mins late, so buggler wasn't called for. EASA does not have oversight on security, each member state is responsible. Why should I have to complain about food handling, it should be done properly. I do not profess to be a 'know all' as you describe, and have in the past been an ardent FR supporter, but on this and many recent occassions I personally felt things were not done properly. But, hey I see your attitude complies with company culture, and nobody else is entitled to have an opinion.

Based
19th Feb 2009, 16:33
Very simple, why are the IAA, various Department of Transport (security divisions) CAA and the relevant food safety authorities allowing unfair competition in that FR give the finger to security and other legislation, while it is rigourously enforced upon others.

Quite serious allegations there, what evidence do you have to suggest that this is indeed the case? Modern air travel is, unfortunately, a compromise between efficiency and security and I fear in a lot of cases inefficiency tends to be perceived by some as increased security. Take the 100ml liquid rule, totally inefficient but we're definitely safer now!

Rhodes13
19th Feb 2009, 16:35
Security checks are conducted by the cabin crew on each turn around. They have to give the all clear for the pax to start boarding. Thus you will notice on most aircraft the under seat area has nothing under it thus its easy to see that the floor is clear, you'll also notice each overhead bin has mirrors allowing someone to see whether a package has been left on board. All thats left is to ensure that the toilets are free and that there is nothing in them. Total time a couple of minutes. Can be conducted by one cabin crew or ideally two.

So I'm surprised that you as a pax at the gate can categorically say that there was no security search unless you were on the aircraft! This also escapes the fact that the toilets are locked so that during deplanning the pax cant access them. So I ask you again are you sure the security wasn't done?

You also state there were two cabin crew at the gate. Again wrong, you may have seen the junior at the gate with a swissport service rep. Once on board the number one is at the front, the number 3 at the back and the number two in the middle of the cabin. If refueling and boarding all cabin crew must be on board to comply with safety regs or upon the 150th pax coming on board then the number 4 must come back.

My attitude is one of constant amazement of how a little knowledge is dangerous. I respect your right to have an opinion unless that opinion is blatantly false and based on half truths and a lack of knowledge.

I am very far from a dyed in the wool supporter of RYR and have my issues with them but I take offense when SLF state categorically that we are unsafe. I want to come home to at the end of the day just as much as you want to get your destination.

As to the food are you saying that mistakes are never made? If you believe that perhaps we should stop all the inspections of food premises then? Of course you should have pointed it out. Otherwise how do we as a company learn?

For the record I dont like the baggage fees and think that is a problem as well as staff relations at the moment, but im far from dismissive of your opinion. How about I start commenting on your job without knowing whats going on! :ok:

pamann
19th Feb 2009, 16:46
Don't get me wrong I disagree with the charge to use a machine to check-in (like internet check-in it should be free). However when you take into account that it's Ryanair what benefit are you going to get from check-in at a manned desk? Check your veggie meal is onboard? Request an aisle or window seat? Get them to swipe your RyanMiles card?

They're only going to take your bag, tag it and hand you you're boarding card then... Next!

CorkEICK
19th Feb 2009, 16:51
Security checks are conducted by the cabin crew on each turn around. They have to give the all clear for the pax to start boarding

What amazes me is the number of people on here who feel so much safer when they see "security checks being carried out properly" at the entrance to departures or at the boarding gate. Believe me I would be quite happy to see no checks because they certainly in my view are purely cosmetic and painfully disruptive. They have more to do with "keeping up appearances" and making lots of money for the companies involved. Don't be fooled by the authorities claiming how much safer air travel is as a result of these checks. Do we have such checks at rail terminals, coach stations etc...? Similar damage would be caused to train, bus etc as an aircraft but would not be as dramatic as the aircraft crashing on school, church, hospital etc as result of incident

Spotthedog
19th Feb 2009, 18:08
Friend (passenger) on this flight spent 5 hours in the plane on the ground before departure at Dublin. Usual stuff - uncommunicative/invisible cc with instruction from cpatain not to pester them for information, no drinks, water, any refreshments offered to an increasingly angry and concerned SLF who were't allowed to get off the plane. Then, stranded due late arrival in LGW with no trains etc.

It was a bit snowy so weather may or may not have been an issue as other London bound Aer Lingus flights were departing during this period and arriving in London it transpired. Who knows the reason - it could be any number of perfectly reasonable explanations that were never provided.

But, even if the flight did cost just a few tens of pounds (a large part of which was the credit card usage fee) engendering low service quality expectations, does that still give the right for a company to in effect destroy a whole day of someone's life without so much as a rational explanation or formal apology? Not to mention an acceptance of fault or offer of compensation which I fully understand from other comments here is not worth pursuing.

How do the people in this thread who argue that Ryanair's business model is one of the best in the business, rationalise this kind of approach when arguably they could have done simple, cost effective damage limitation actions like - offering honest explanations, apologies, offered water to thirsty pax etc.

Rhodes13
19th Feb 2009, 18:48
spotthedog not defending the airlines handling of this as it is a woeful customer experience however do you know the exact reason for the delay? Could it have been slot delays at dublin or LGW? You say yourself there was snow at the time. I can tell you from personal experience that the smallest amount of snow has in the past month sent airports at both end unserviceable. I myself was stuck on a flight the other day at STN due to 1cm... reason being that the runway was closed, then when it did open we had a slot and were number 7 for departure. Moved up several spaces but then RWY was shut again and remained so till the flight was cancelled.

Now I ask you what would you have done? You as the captain have sent a ready message to control saying that you are ready an immediate departure. You now have to keep the pax seated as the tower may be saying you should push in the next ten mins. Many of the times we as crew know a little more than the pax but not much in regards to when the airport will open. If you let pax deplane then you have to do a security search, then reload the aircraft. You let pax move around and it takes an age to get them seated again so you can push. By the time that is done you have missed your slot. Your now stuck at the gate waiting for a new slot to be issued. Its a bit of a juggling act trying to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.

Its up to the captain to release the cabin crew and if he thought it best to keep them seated surely he thought there was a chance of movement soon? But I wasnt there so cant tell you. You should send a complaint letter to RYR and see if you get a response.

The problem with telling pax the whole truth is that in many cases its the worst thing you could do. Pax get upset and it takes only one to start a scene. Yes a simple statement of we are delayed due RWY closing but again I cant say what was going on. I can tell you what I would have done and hindsight is a great thing. Yes you should be apologized to so I urge you to complain.

RYR is good at what it does. Transporting a hell of a lot of people and generating profits. However being good at generating profits doesn't always mean treating the customer as they should be treated, BA terminal 5 lost baggage ring a bell?

A319-100
19th Feb 2009, 18:51
All that is required is a truthful PA with what is happening to the passengers. The truth is the best policy. Most passengers are adults and respond well to being kept informed.

daz211
19th Feb 2009, 18:55
Well here I go !

1. Ryanair and many other Airlines CANX flights during the snow
so lucky they departed at all.

2. Ryanair CC are not INVISIBLE, its hard to hide CC on FR's 738's.

3. Ryanair are a point to point Airline which means they have to get you from A-to-B and thats it.

4. Forget about stranded at your destination, that is nothing to do with FR what so ever [see point 3].

5. If you really think people on here [even the FR bashers] think that
the CC or Flightdeck didnt offer a reason or apologies even once then
you as mad as your post.

Rhodes13
19th Feb 2009, 18:59
You'd think they would but unfortunately we had a pax that starting screaming blue murder and carrying on like a child the other day when told the RWY was closed due to snow.

Started swearing and carrying on as though she was the only one on the aircraft that was missing appointments. Caused a lot of distress to those around her. This is the unfortunate reason we can't always give you the whole truth

She started screaming about aircraft in siberia able to take in snow so why cant we and was eventually off loaded.

Its the likes of her that spoil it for the rest much like the baggage. You think the gate staff like saying to pax sorry no to big and then enduring the abuse that follows? You tell people that whole truth and you get some idiot demanding all sorts of things that we can do.

Whenever the normal lay person goes near an airport all sense of decency and proper behaviour is lost. The traffic to the carpark is the first sign :ugh:

Skipness One Echo
19th Feb 2009, 19:55
5. If you really think people on here [even the FR bashers] think that
the CC or Flightdeck didnt offer a reason or apologies even once then
you as mad as your post.

You were on this flight to be so confident?
Are you the new racedo?
Do you have MOL's photo on your wall?

runawayedge
19th Feb 2009, 21:24
I'm not saying security checks are of any benefit, what I am saying is that becuase they are the rules everybody else follows them, and as a result their turnarounds take longer, same at the gate, every other airline checks the pax as they pass through the gate, and Rhodes not everybody on here are SLF. I never stated that FR were unsafe, I admire FRs attitude to engineering and Flightops, but the cabin in my view is different. What I saw was last pax off, first pax on 10 seconds in between. Try going through the cabin some day and checking under each seat, and the overheads, and that nobody has nicked a seatbelt. See how long it takes!

frfly
19th Feb 2009, 22:09
3 crew check 11 rows each, no seat backs, no cleaning. Fr policy puts first pax out on a/c steps while the crew finish security checks. Maximum time two mins. Tried and tested, audited regularly and works. Fr do it better than anyone because everyone is under pressure from the top. Remember, when the crew r on the ground they r not getting paid.

Spotthedog
19th Feb 2009, 22:42
Thanks for all your thoughts on this one guys.

Re Rhodes13 question about what would i have done if I had been captain facing the situation outlined - well I think I really would have to agree with A319-100 and tell the truth. Now, that might be tricky because it probably would be hard to explain the complex range of factors in a suitable way. But I would certainly have tried to explain why it was best to keep everyone on the aircraft (after an hour say). I'd have pre-empted the possibility of delay due snow and made sure at least some refreshments were ready to calm any hint of passenger rebellion (Is that provision outside the power of the cpatain on Ryanair?)

But what happened was that the flight deck crew made 'promises' (viz. that "we would be underway in 15 mins") which were repeatedly 'broken' for 5 hours! So all crew credibility appears to have been lost in the eyes of the passengers - I guess any reason or casual apologies that may have been offered would justly sound very hollow after that.

Now I can see that a small number of passengers would lose it and scream with a delay regardless of anything you say to them - maybe alcohol induced, maybe a difficult ride to the airport or an unfortunate check-in or security experience contributed - whatever. On this flight no one had to be carted off. Don't most people simply mutter and seethe in a restrained sort of way when faced with this kind of adversity? Surely, not being honest is far more likely to turn the majority of reasonable people against you bigtime and increase the chance that some of them will lash out or that they will organise as a group - as started to happen on this flight?

I shall relay to my friend daz211's view that "he was lucky to have departed at all"! Love it! I suspect though he feels he would have been luckier not to have travelled that day at all.

Thanks also for your clarification that "Ryanair is a point to point airline which means they have to get you from A to B and that's it!" That's not entirely true is it as particularly 'lucky' passengers have been known to fly via point C, an airport near to B with a deceptively similar runway configuration!
But more importantly where does that equation leave safety and duty of care - both of which are presumably compromised to a degree if passengers are stretched to fluid-deprived emotional breaking point?

becki_
19th Feb 2009, 23:20
I flew with Ryanair for the first time this week; firstly MAN-DUB then DUB-LPL. I must say, the flights were spot on time and I had no complaints at all.
Bit nonsensical really the amount of hand luggage people take onboard though. I myself checked mine into the hold but on the flight from MAN-DUB the overhead lockers were completely full; people cramming&pushing to their heart's content to get their larger than life suitcase above them.

Ryanair does what it says on the tin: cheap flights to popular places, no-frills service. Why people would complain about it when the prices are so low is beyond me.

CorkEICK
19th Feb 2009, 23:42
@spotthedog


My experience last night was totally different! STD of 2050. Fully loaded at 2040. Door closed at approx 2052. Delay appeared to be caused by pax who had her online boarding card but no photo id and was stuck at gate trying to sort it out. Problem was solved and ready for push @2054.

No push and after about 10 mins Captain advised that a landing aircraft had just suffered a minor incident(spilled some fluid which needed to be cleaned up) on landing on rw 28 (the active runway). Main runway was closed and we joined the queue for start up for the changed runway. We taxied at 2115, airborne approx 2120 and arrived ORK @2152 only 12 minutes behind schedule. Crew again apologised for the delay.

Anytime Ryanair have had a delay they have never been slow to apologise. On one occasion last year I had a 3 hour delay after boarding because of slots implemented at Dub due to weather conditions. I decided not to travel and crew quickly arranged for a handling agent to get me back in the Terminal.

EGAC_Ramper
20th Feb 2009, 04:04
Its great telling the pax the truth but then again alot do not understand the intricasies of operating aircraft in low vis procedures etc and just EXPECT the planes to operate.

Then they complain blaming Ryanair when just as much everyone else is in the same boat.......



Regards

Maverick8701
20th Feb 2009, 09:36
BBC Link
BBC NEWS | Technology | Airline approves mobile phone use (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7900941.stm)

Steviec9
20th Feb 2009, 09:42
Deep joy.

"I'm on a plane innit. Yeah, a plane. Is it that I am on a plane..."

Must make sure my iPod is charged and ready to blot them out...:ugh:

tinyflyerBHX
20th Feb 2009, 10:02
Not a first really bmi and Air France beat them to it and trailed this last year.

Maverick8701
20th Feb 2009, 10:11
Not to mention the fact that it will cost you more than your ticket to make the call!!

Tom the Tenor
20th Feb 2009, 11:13
FR9849 DUB-ORK

You just cant beat a Cork crew!

You just can beat Cork, full stop!

Corcaigh abu! :ok:

danielson81
20th Feb 2009, 11:36
Anyone know anything about this 37 hour delay in Malta?
timesofmalta.com - Ryanair flight delayed for more than 37 hours (http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090220/local/ryanair-flight-delayed-for-more-than-37-hours)

ericlday
20th Feb 2009, 12:38
See thread on FR Delay

racedo
20th Feb 2009, 14:19
Then, stranded due late arrival in LGW with no trains etc.


There were no trains running on 2nd of Feb on the routes through Gatwick so not sure what difference it would have made if on time.

davidjohnson6
20th Feb 2009, 14:33
Ryanair now allow mobiles to be used in flight!Does anyone have any figures showing the cost of keeping the picocell equipment in the air for around 10 or 12 hours per day ? Alternatively, does anyone know the cost for carrying 1 kg of extra mass in something like a 737 for a year ?

I suspect that network airlines may want to provide a picocell as part of the general service offering - particularly to those sitting in the pointy bit of the airframes, but that the likes of Ryanair will do so only if it's a directly profitable ancillary. I'd be interested to know how much people would need to spend on an average 2 hour flight for this kind of thing to be profitable to Ryanair

frnikolai
20th Feb 2009, 15:17
Firstly, RYANAIR are now closing check-in desks. They will be replaced with kiosks and bag drops. Which has been set now to lower the price of baggage, as you can check-in online. Plus drop you're bag off! That would save £8.50 per bag. Which could be used for other things. This story is being covered by the Daily Telegraph.

Secondly, this on-air phone system is going to be profitable. No one will be making a call at £1 a minute. And lasting 30 minutes. But I myself would use it just for a text or a very quick call to my children. No more than 1 minute. Now, if 100 people do this = £100 profit per flight.

Just my view!

Nikolai.

Charlie Roy
20th Feb 2009, 15:24
Many flights will have a scattering of people whose phone bill is paid by their employer. Surely these people will use the service, not giving two hoots about the cost :cool:

frnikolai
20th Feb 2009, 16:00
I never thought of it that way! Thanks - my kids can talk to me the whole flight, and my BlackBerry can send the bill to my firm!

I hope internet will come too!

ssflyer
20th Feb 2009, 17:00
Hope you don't mind if I copy my posting from another site here:-

The arrogance and lies of MOL on TV this morning.
"I am inundated by customers pleading with me to allow mobiles on Ryanair-my in tray is full of their letters"
Bulls..t.
A recent survey gave a massive 80% NO to mobile use on flights.
It is GREED and nothing else.
I will avoid them at all costs and the only time I will be dragged onto the plane is when there is no alternative.
Mind you - I doubt you will be able to hear them talking, what with the announcements from the FA's flogging stratchcards and the hairy ar...d bloke in a vest next to you bellowing at his sink estate brats to sit down and eat their burger.

Nuf said
SSflyer

daz211
20th Feb 2009, 17:17
There is always an alternative :*.

Sounds like you may need FR more than they need you.
People like you makes me sick :yuk:, please dont slag the Airline off
then use them to get to your destination.

Maybe we will see you getting dragged of the plane rather than being
dragged on it while you shout and kick about people making calls.

You have to remember Ryanair is a business and any way of making money
has to be good for the company.

ssflyer
20th Feb 2009, 17:59
You do have a point, not slagging them off and I have no problem with their business plan, it is the deceit of MOL:yuk: that really gets up my nose.
"My customers are wanting this":suspect:
Bo...cks-80% say NO.
With FR you get what you pay for (well you don't really- a £7.99 headline fare each way turns out at £102.20 if you have luggage,airport check in and don't have an electron card)
But I would pay £50 more to sit in an aircraft with no in flight phones,prearranged seating,no scratch cards and affordable F&B .
I chose mobile free areas on trains - showing my age, when I was on the road I knew where the phone boxes were and had change in my pocket!
However,if you follow his rules,check in on time ,no overweight luggage,stuff your sandwich /newspapers in your cabin luggage- it can work very well BUT I do not want mobiles on my flight so Dublin is off my list with FR.

frnikolai
20th Feb 2009, 18:12
Does it really make a difference to a flight if someone is on the phone? After all YOU don't own the plane? And if you sit next to people who occupy the other two seats who know each other they will be talking already?

Nikolai.

Rhodes13
20th Feb 2009, 18:22
ssflyer i suggest you are quite easily balanced having a chip on both shoulders :ugh:

You dont like RYR and more particularly MOL thats fine but why then did you feel it necessary to come on here and rant. For every person that doesn't want a phone you would probably find there are other people that do want it. As for affordable food and beverage I have never ever seen a reasonable price at 35000 ft... I wonder why that is?

As for you assertion of 7.50 turning into over a 100 pounds I think unless you are carrying an elephant you wouldn't be paying that. But hey lets all bash RYR

I dont like Branson so should I go and rant and rave on another forum? :ugh:

PS I take it you wont be flying BMI, Emirates or a whole host of other airlines then seeing as they are also looking into adding this feature? You might want to see if you can catch a train to any where you want to go!

daz211
20th Feb 2009, 18:29
Only time will tell, if 80% of pax dont want it then maybe it wont be that much of a problem in the air !

However in some cases some pax may find it a good thing, there is a lot of
reasons for people traveling.

I for one would have found it very reassuring last year when traveling STN-NCL with EZY, IT was 0345 on the dot when I got a call from my Dad
telling me my mum had been rushed into hospital and was going down for a 6 hr operation I was TOLD that I should get to Newcastle asap.

I would have payed £100 per min to be able to be on the phone to my dad for the whole flight it was the worst day of my life, me in Essex my Dad on his own in Newcastle [two hrs from home] and my Mum fighting for her life.

So you see it might not be what you want but someone else my need the service.

ssflyer
20th Feb 2009, 19:02
daz-very good point. Text I can live with and it would have worked for you.

rhodes-chips and elephants and rants.

Please do not see this as a:yuk: but I do fly BMI and Emirates (and Gulf/Thai/Monarch/flybe/BA/Virgin/Turkish) and have posted frequent detailed reports on their flights,all of them objective and reasoned
It is my very hard earned money that is spent on flying and I have no axe to grind with FR and its business plan-it is just the honesty of MOL saying "this is to meet customer demand".
If he said "The money we make from these calls will keep us a low fares airline" at least,for once,he would have been honest and transparent.
I still say NO TO MOBILES:{

BEagle
20th Feb 2009, 20:50
The figures I heard today were £3 per minute for calls and 40p per text.

Which is outrageous - it should be £10 per minute for calls at the very least.

I only fly with real airlines, not with the awful locos. When business users of my regular airline were asked last year, they resoundingly rejected the idea of mobile phones being allowed in-flight.

Thank god!!

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 10:23
Well it won't be long before other airlines start to implement this idea - and if you don't like it; fly with someone else.

Just don't moan about the aging Airbus A320, the staff that are rude, the disgusting "Tuna Tika Marsarla" sandwich and tiny pepsi. Or the fact the flight has a €100 surcharge for fuel, 5 hour delay. And the worst part is - you could of flown with RYR or EZY!!!

60 million people can't be mobilephonephobics? Plus, an extra 7 million people are expected to choose RYR.

For the record, I am talking about BA above. They had this A320 from 1988!!!

Nikolai.

Skipness One Echo
21st Feb 2009, 11:24
I flew in a nice BA A320 last month and it was in good shape for a 20 year old aircraft. It also most certainly wasn't booked with a £100 fuel surcharge.....

Anyway good stories and facts don't mix so back to the fantasy!

Plus, an extra 7 million people are expected to choose RYR

Now THAT's real fantasy.

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 12:18
£60 per person surcharge, that's fact.
Add two little children - and mine goes up to £100.

Fact again, average age for aircraft on BA is 15 years old. Ryanair has 2 years average.

BA - well over 90% down on profit...

No, 60 million people choose to fly with Ryanair in 2008. The predictions was 58 million.

The prediction is 67 million, but that will almost certainly rise to 70 million.

London to Barcelona (BA) - £250
London to Barcelona (RYR) - £50 (total, inc 1 bag) add €10 for transfer from Girona.

No surprise BA will be joining the rest... XL, Futura, etc...

Skipness One Echo
21st Feb 2009, 12:46
Nikolai we know how it works, be selective on the dates all you like I have found Ryanair to have become increasingly expensive with all the new charges for things that BA sensibly absorb as part of my ticket.

BA aren't going bust any time soon and the reasons that Ryanair are about to head into the brown stuff have been discussed a lot on here. DUB, SNN, LPL all slashed, only real growth is in airports with new deals, come the end of the honeynmoon period Ryanair bully them with an ultimatum.

Are you saying that you wouldn't fly on a 20 year old BA B747-400? Or Cathay? That's just plain silly. These airlines have strong maintenance operations to safely support older aircraft. Anyhoo BA and Ryanair aren't really competitors, different markets, different business models, different airlines.

I'm guessing that you're a Ryanair trolley dolley mon ami?

mickyman
21st Feb 2009, 14:01
One day all the Ryanair haters will just get the message.
If you dont like it then go by a.n-other.
Your continued moaning about the airline just show you all
in a pathetic and silly light.
Its not even entertaining anymore.
You all must have a lot of free time to waste on this forum
with your criticisms.Did you all miss a step on the evolutionary
road?

MM

Skipness One Echo
21st Feb 2009, 15:36
I don't hate Ryanair, I use them a lot on STN-PIK. I don't love BA and I use them even more.
However the blinkered and one sided views are not helpful, there have been some informative supportive and critical posts on here and that's always good.

mickyman
21st Feb 2009, 16:25
Skipness

Just remember that Ryanair is the biggest low-cost
operator in Europe - not by default.
The 'British desease' that you propigate in your posts
(along with others) reflects badly on your contributions.
It would be theraputic for you to post something positive
sometime - along the lines of :
'Ryanair charged me so much for this journey and added on
this amount,but you know what, the trip aboard a modern jet
that I took, was still a snip!'
If you use them alot then surely you have had good experiences
with them - but have failed to mention them on this forum - why?

I have never travelled with any airline if the fare that I chose
was a rip-off,because I wouldnt choose it!!

MM

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 16:28
I am afraid I do not speak French (4 languages - just not French) nor do I work as a trolley-dolly.

I think you should just accept that Ryanair is beating the hell out of BA. One seat in every row on a BA flight is empty!!! THAT IS FACT FROM THE TIMES.

Ryanair flew 60 million last year THAT IS FACT

How many did BA fly?!?!?!

Ryanair are going to be around forever, and the routes that have been cut - well who in their right mind would go on holiday in the summer to Liverpool? By cutting one route - another takes it's place.

BA are going to start charging for extras, just too survive. You are only allowed one bag free to check in with BA on Euro flights, and soon enough the charges will rise.

Just so you can take your cake and eat it... look at this:

I just booked this:

Ryanair: London Stansted to Faro Algarve, 1 adult 2 children:
Outbound: 01/08/09 STN-FAO
Inbound: 14/08/09 FAO-STN
Total: 526.68
1 bag: £28.50
American Express Black Credit Card Fee: £28.50
Total: 583.68

British Airways: London Gatwick to Faro Algarve, 1 adult 2 children
Outbound: 01/08/09 LGW-FAO
Inbound: 14/08/09 FAO-LGW
Total: 702.68
NOT INCLUDING CREDIT CARD CHARGES.

Now tell me that British Airways is going to beat Ryanair. Myself, my two kids - are on that flight.

It will take me 45 minutes on the Stansted Express and I have saved a lot of money.

And that is for the summer on a popular route.

Very Best Wishes,

Nikolai.

P.S

The only time I use BA is to Moscow.

Skipness One Echo
21st Feb 2009, 16:39
For the record I have never been late with Ryanair and the aircraft are fine. However I think the service is poor, the staff rude and the only flight where someone struggled to deliver a safety demo due to passengers laughter was Ryanair. You get what you pay for.

As to the BA flight, looks like the yields are holding. I should also remind you it IS the middle of winter so load factor isn't great.

BA are going to start charging for extras, just too survive. You are only allowed one bag free to check in with BA on Euro flights, and soon enough the charges will rise.

Different market, I disagree but we shall see. We shall also see where the shed load of new Boeings end up with the biggest of expansions at a time when people aren't flying...... We'll see.

True Blue
21st Feb 2009, 16:56
Yes and it will cost you more to get to Stn than Lgw. So all the time the gap is closing. Then you get to a point, or you should, where you start to compare the difference in fare with the service you get. For people with brains, it should then be a no-brainer. However, it seems most never compare the total package.

True Blue

mickyman
21st Feb 2009, 17:50
'For people with brains, it should then be a no-brainer'.

Nice one!!

Skipness

Well done for the one sentence of positivity, but you let yourself
down in the following ramble.Could you please say why the 'service
was poor' - do you mean that the CC didnt wash your feet as you
boarded the aircraft and laugh at your jokes - or were they doing
their jobs so that the aircraft would get you to your destination
on time?

MM

the_fish@blueyonder.
21st Feb 2009, 17:54
Ryanair will abolish all thier check in desks by the end of the year, opting for the bag drop desks which are common with the full service airlines, according to:

BBC NEWS | Business | Ryanair to abolish check-in desks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7903656.stm)

I'm not really affected here, I can't see how anyone would be greatly put out by this either as there are also check in kiosks at a lot of thier airports now too. I've checked in online with them for as long as I have been able to. I hope it now means that non-EU passport holders are able to use the check 'n' go service, as otherwise they will be losing out on a large market of Euro-Trippers from North America, Australasia etc in the summer months as just one example. :ugh:

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 18:15
For Christ sake, people will always fly. Just as a finanical crisis is here, doesn't stop the 90% of travellers who want and must fly.

It just means that people are becoming more price aware, and for exactly the same service. People want cheaper tickets - and Ryanair do this.

We shall see... but my money is with Ryanair expanding rapidly - and BA retreating to non-europe travel.

Well - for 45 minutes on the train, versus 30. I think the extra 15 minutes justifys the saving. I can use that to higher a better car. And how much more will it cost? Certainly won't match the BA price.

ADDING EVERYTHING AS WELL - AND IT STILL IS CHEAPER!!!

The package is the same, albeit slightly longer to get to Stansted. But not that big a deal.

It is a no-brainer - Ryanair will win.

Nikolai

davidjohnson6
21st Feb 2009, 18:25
Ryanair will abolish all thier check in desks by the end of the year
It is my understanding that in much of the EU, if an airline carries a passenger from country A to country B and the passenger does not have the relevant visa / right of entry to country B, then the airline in question is liable for a big expensive fine - I've seen figures of 10,000 pounds per passenger on this theme. I used to have a passport that was fraying at the edges - when I checked in at a desk at Stansted in the past, Ryanair staff were usually *very* sharp at noticing the state of my passport for this reason.

Yes, much of the EU is now part of the Schengen area, but this does not apply to the UK, Ireland, Morocco or Romania, so for flights to/from these countries, there are still immigration rules that need to be followed.

For those with a passport from the EU / North America, this is not a problem. Further, those working for an airport will not want to get involved in any kind of visa policing. In addition, Govt immigration officials care only about who is entering or leaving their own country - not whether they have the right to enter the country to which they are going.

Thus, the only place I can think of where Ryanair staff can check visas for those with passports which are generally less welcome in the EU, is at the gate immediately before boarding when there is very little time to resolve any queries.

I would imagine that there are plenty of people with neither an EU passport, nor a residence permit, flying to/from Rzeszow, Tampere, Kaunas, Riga and Morocco. What about all the South Africans in London who need a Schengen visa ?

I'd be amazed if Ryanair haven't thought of this problem already - so what's really going to happen ?
1) All checkin desks really will be closed across the whole network ?
2) Those without EU / North American passports will not be permitted to fly with Ryanair to/from the UK and Ireland ?
3) Some checkin desks will actually be retained at airports, but they will just have a very expensive fee to use them - paid only by non-EU citizens ?
4) Ryanair doesn't care about the potential immigration fines ?
5) Checking of visas will be done at the gate with little or no time for sorting out any queries ?

Skipness One Echo
21st Feb 2009, 18:36
Mickeyman I don't mind flying Ryanair but I don't think the service is good. The Cabin Crew struggle to communicate effectively quite often. If I fly in the morning the aircraft is fine but often if I am flying later in the day the aircraft is a little untidy.
I don't mind as I know what I'm paying for but they're nought to be proud of. Cheap as chips but it shows. As time goes on, if I think I am going to be sitting next to someone on the mobile at FL350 talking to his mammy in Poland, tbh I'd pay a lot more money NOT to have to do that as it really winds me up on the Tube, God knows listening to some loudmouth for a half hour six miles in the sky.

So yeah, good aircraft, good fares if booked in advance, not a fan of the Cabin Crew though.

frnikolai full service legacy carriers will survive. I use BA as Stansted is in Essex and I have to pay for the expensive Stansted Express to get there as it's not on the Tube. So LHR or LGW it is. EasyJet from LGW is good for me too, and even not having checked baggage, Ryanair are charging me silly money to use a debit card and check in as I don't have a printer in the house. BA is generally CHEAPER for me mate, not in all cases but more and more this year than ever before. Ryanair are attracting punters on board but they are losing a fortune by giving seats away and then clawing it back by screwing me over with expensive charges for the basics.

I will continue flying and generally enjoying FR but part of me really wants MOL to fall on his arse as he has f***ed over so many good people.

It's important that we have a choice OTHER than Ryanair and the locos.

Just as a finanical crisis is here, doesn't stop the 90% of travellers who want and must fly. YES IT DOES FFS!!! That's the whole point. People aren't going to some god forsaken place that they haven't heard of on impulse in the same numbers any more. Given you are FRnikolai I guess you're on the payroll?

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 18:51
Don't be so rude, and unless you are just that god damn arrogant to read my posts. I would not be on the phone to my parents in Poland - ever wondered why I am raising my younger brother and sister? Use you're damn common sense. And watch what you say; lets keep this clean and fair.

Well - would you rather be stuck here; or go to some new place and at least get a holiday.

You seem to be very pro-BA. Shame as the profits don't reflect the overall satisfaction.

Nor load factors...

Now get out of this RYANAIR post, open a BA one - and I'll continue to demonstrate that BA are going down the crapper.

Why did 60 million people fly Ryanair last year?

Nikolai.

mickyman
21st Feb 2009, 19:03
Skipness

'MOL to fall on his arse as he has f***ed over so many good people.'

Please expand on this.............

Your comment about the phone was a cheap shot you should
reconsider and apologise for?

MM

bigmustard
21st Feb 2009, 19:10
Nikolai

Why did 60 million people fly Ryanair last year?


Probably because 20 million of them didn't know any better :}

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 19:17
Thank you - I am glad someone else spotted it. I think you can't get much lower. I would be grateful for an apology.

Nikolai.

P.S

I am Russian.

eels
21st Feb 2009, 19:45
Maybe I'm worng, but it was my understanding that passengers with children under 2 were unable to check in on line. Is this restriction lifted?

frnikolai
21st Feb 2009, 19:47
I am afriad I can't vouch for that - but mine are 4 and 6. So I don't usually worry! However, you are probably right as they charge if you take an infant.

Nikolai.

PPRuNe Pop
21st Feb 2009, 20:24
Now guys! Just get a grip and stop throwing stones - windows get broken!

Get on topic and cut out the rude snidea and abuse. Some posts already deleted and one guy gets a short ban - as a taster!

Get the point?

AA&R Mods

frfly
21st Feb 2009, 21:51
100%web check is expected in September. Self service kiosks are replacing airport ticket desks for taking payments. The next few years will be increasingly interesting in the fr world.

I must say the bickering in this thread is terrible. We are all part of a business, different ones that we would like to succeed. BA can never be put against fr the model is completely different. BA should worry about KLM Air France etc, fr about wizzair, easyjet. So this pointless mine is better than yours attitude in this thread is growing tiring. I am pro fr, I do a lot of work for them. I can see the massive strengths, but I also see the weaknesses. We get you from a to b 98% of the time on time, with your bag (0.4 per 1000 pax lost) and generally for the lowest fare on safe modern efficient a/c. Yes we don't give silver service, if that's what the market wanted then BA would be the largest internation passenger carrying airline, not ryanair. But they don't, joe public want the above, and that's what we as a business strive to achieve through new innovations in the way we travel.

BA are a superb airline for service, I would chose ba long haul if I could and if it required, and to me, that is what they need to concentrate on, hub and spoke.

So enough bickering on here now please, no ba bashing, and especially no dr bashing, everone has the right to show their opinion but please make an informed one, when you actually know the facts and how these airlines work.

the_fish@blueyonder.
21st Feb 2009, 23:06
Just another thought re: Check in desk closure.

Non EU-Passports aside, it would be great if they also allowed people with Dricing Licences and in particular Provisional UK Licences to use these as ID too. A Full DL is not, at present, available for those wishing to use Check 'N' Go. I assume this will be sorted as I know a few people at the moment who, when using FR, have to opt for desk check in as they don't own passports and therefore can't check in online.

frfly
22nd Feb 2009, 00:03
I think in terms of web check n go, everyone will be able to do it. It will become solely the responsibility of the passenger to have the correct documentation. I think during the quick boarding process the gate staff will have to check visas, however I believe that the passenger may become liable for any expenses in the eyes of ryanair. Remember, handling agents do the majority of the work and it will be their responsibility and themselves who ryanair pass the fine onto. Only place ryanair could pick up the charge could be on DUB departing flights, as it is self handling. Only the next few months will show what is to happen, it is still in development. Hope this helps.

waffler
22nd Feb 2009, 09:36
Am I the only person who realises that the end of check in desks means the firing of hundreds of staff who are on minimum wages and in many cases have moved to another country on false promises by contract agencies used by ryanair. This is the reality and human face of the Ryanair statement. We all know that Ryanair will keep the money, after all, profit is more important than people.

the_stranger
22nd Feb 2009, 10:27
Welcome in the modern world. Companies worldwide will try to cut costs, not only RYR. I have been working at Amsterdam Schiphol airport for 12 years now, and in those 12 years, I have seen an explosion of the numvbers of self check-in desks/machines/bagage dropoff point, in all colors and with all logos.

Yeah, it will mean a loss of jobs, but that seems to be inherent of " progression", just like the invention of steampower, automated looms and glass/automated cockpits meant less needed people to do the work...

Skipness One Echo
22nd Feb 2009, 11:51
'MOL to fall on his arse as he has f***ed over so many good people.'Please expand on this.............

If you were familiar with pprune or Ryanair you might be aware of MOL treats his staff. Google the following
1) Unionisation of Ryanair pilots at Dublin
2) Treatment and asset stripping of Buzz

He is a succesful businessman I grant you, however there are lots of succesful businessmen who make a lot of money without revelling in the chaos they leave in their wake.

I suggest Michael O'Leary by Micheal Ruddock and Ryanair by Siobahan Creaton. Good reads both of them and they are not hatchet jobs. Have a look and compare MOLs behaviour with say Herb Kelleher. That's the reason that many people are anti Ryanair.

EI-CFC
22nd Feb 2009, 12:16
Am I the only person who realises that the end of check in desks means the firing of hundreds of staff

Well, FR won't be losing many, actually.

In most bases, it is outsourced/contract staff (e.g. Aviance, Servisair) who also do similar work for other airlines. These companies win and lose contracts all the time as airlines enter and pull out of airports and/or change handling companies due to getting a better deal. So really, there isn't that much job security anyway in these companies. Staff get redeployed to other contracts if they can, or let go.

mickyman
22nd Feb 2009, 13:26
Skipness

Forgive my ignorance but who is :
Herb Kelleher.

MM

Skipness One Echo
22nd Feb 2009, 13:35
Herb Kelleher is the legendary founder of Southwest, upon which the Ryanair low cost model was based.

mickyman
22nd Feb 2009, 14:24
Just interested in how many international routes do
Southwest operate.

MM

davidjohnson6
22nd Feb 2009, 14:31
I believe Southwest don't operate any international routes at all - they are at the moment setting up codesharing with WestJet for US-Canada flights. I believe they are also looking at flights to/from Hawaii as well, although ETOPS might be an issue here

Then again, when you have the whole of the lower-48 states in the USA in which to fly, international flying which adds complexity to the operation is not really necessary to grow one's business

As an example of scale comparison, Wikipedia shows Southwest to have 539 737s, compared to Ryanair's 181. Sure, the 737s Southwest fly are smaller than Ryanair's 737s in terms of passenger capacity..... but that's still a lot more metal in the air

Skipness One Echo
22nd Feb 2009, 14:36
Ryanairs core focus is within Europe which is pretty much a single market these days. I know there are exceptions but that's why the business model was chosen.
The distinguishing factor is that Southwest values it's employees highly and treats them well. There was a good interview with Herb in both Airliner World and Aircraft Illustrated recently. He is a little reluctant to take credit for Ryanair though, worth reading if you can get a copy.

mickyman
22nd Feb 2009, 14:50
Can you give some comparisons - pay rate wise
between Southwest and Ryanair and their 'full service'
rival carriers from Captain to CC if possible..........I'm
just curious.

MM

racedo
22nd Feb 2009, 16:17
For those with a passport from the EU / North America, this is not a problem. Further, those working for an airport will not want to get involved in any kind of visa policing. In addition, Govt immigration officials care only about who is entering or leaving their own country - not whether they have the right to enter the country to which they are going.

Surprisingly they already do at Airports and think the figure is £2000 rather than £10000 but thats details.

Quite a few of the service providers at Airports incentivise the staff to hold back people with incorrect Visa's. As is pretty likely the airlines will force people like Servisair etc to pay the fine as they checked someone through then getting people like this held way before boarding is worth the £25 bonus to the checking staff.

I can only guess that using the checkin kiosks will flag whether someone has correct VISA or not as believe they are regesitered.

racedo
22nd Feb 2009, 16:23
Maybe I'm worng, but it was my understanding that passengers with children under 2 were unable to check in on line. Is this restriction lifted?

Probably not as there are a number of reasons including child security why this was in place.

There will be some way around this.

racedo
22nd Feb 2009, 16:30
1) All checkin desks really will be closed across the whole network ?
Probably not

2) Those without EU / North American passports will not be permitted to fly with Ryanair to/from the UK and Ireland ?
unlikely

3) Some checkin desks will actually be retained at airports, but they will just have a very expensive fee to use them - paid only by non-EU citizens ?
Probably free to Non EU - a charge for EU

4) Ryanair doesn't care about the potential immigration fines ?
They do big time - reckon their online checkin has a backdoor into false passports so Police / immigration see who is using them

5) Checking of visas will be done at the gate with little or no time for sorting out any queries ?
In most countries flying from Schenegn to UK / Ireland there are security/ immigration checks anyway.......issue not relevant across most of EU as if there automatically assummed you have Schengen Visa........damm never though about that which is why it will be a winner as no need to check anyway across most routes.

racedo
22nd Feb 2009, 16:57
Ryanairs core focus is within Europe which is pretty much a single market these days. I know there are exceptions but that's why the business model was chosen.
The distinguishing factor is that Southwest values it's employees highly and treats them well. There was a good interview with Herb in both Airliner World and Aircraft Illustrated recently. He is a little reluctant to take credit for Ryanair though, worth reading if you can get a copy.Herb,. Colleen Barrett and MOL's families all trace their heritage back to 1 village in Cork surprsingly enough. He was happy to accept acknowledgement for helping FR / Easyjet / Go and numeurous other Loco operations but his point is its ultimately what they do as he just walks them through the model.....this was Business week circa 8-9 years ago.

Comparing Southwest and FR is both easy and hard, easy as their business model is similar harder because method of operation are different.

Southwest had 1 single US market with lots of poorly served routes that it could start with where restrictions limited. Given the US Airlines were served with poor management and agressive Unions he felt better to have a Union working within the company at the start and make them part of the plan. This he did.......this was contrary to what rest of airlines were doing but Herb was noted as a smoker, drinker who did things differently.

Southwest are fun to fly with but will enter and exit a route just as quickly but they are also mindful with 1 million plus lawyers in the US they are always getting sued by whomever for whatever. Similarly they don't get US Federal Govt coming up with passengers charters etc with fines for airlines as a PR stunt like EU.

FR will evolve its customer service over time but as an aggressive growing company it has to reach a point before it feels it can do that and given how it sees Unions have worked so well with other airlines in Europe it stays away from them big time.

Met a guy who works with lots of European airports in the last week and he made the point that many of the big airports who had a distaste for FR were now making discreet inquiries as ultimately bosses gets measured on PAX numbers. He viewed that next stage of expansion would be at more central airports where they would get lots of opportunities as its a recession BUT his key point was come the end of a recession they would be holding quite a lot of slots in key markets.

mickyman
22nd Feb 2009, 17:18
Racedo

Thankyou for an interesting post on Ryanair/Southwest.

MM

undw
22nd Feb 2009, 21:54
I have no brief for Ryanair and can fully understand the frustrations with them.....however......sometimes you get a new perspective on things. Visiting friends in ontario in june and thought it would be a jolly idea to pop over the border and link up with friends in pittsburgh so I idly looked at the possiblities and found only Air Canada do the route through their joke lo cost operator JAZZ and was quoted £220 return for a mid week there and back return from Toronto Pearson to Pittsburgh. That's £220 for a one hour flight on an enquiry 4 months before the planned trip.

I know we're spoilt in the UK with Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizz etc but sometimes you're brought up short by the sheer nonsense in the aviation sector as listed in the above para. I sent an e mail to Air Canada slating them and warning them that their lazy arses will hit the floor when the loco revolution hits North America.....so it's a not altogether unwelcome car hire for one week for me which I can get for about £160-170.

Dumb737Girl
22nd Feb 2009, 21:55
Hi, Just heard in the Grapevine that Ryanair are to close the Base in Marseille from Mid March, and will base there aircraft else where, which causes problems to people like myself for traveling to the south of france,Any updates please keep me posted..Regards Dumb737Girl

ara01jbb
23rd Feb 2009, 08:16
undw - minor point, AC Jazz is not a lo-co, it's a wholly owned regional operator; uses a variety of Embraers and 'props. AC did have a lo-co called Tango that tried to respond to WestJet in the earlier nought-ies, but which was eventually rolled back into mainline. The name lived on as the cheapest/least flexible ticket designation on AC.

North America will, for a variety of reasons, never see a lo-co market like the one we have in Europe. There have been various attempts, and apart from Southwest (which has too many frills and too high a commitment to customer service to count as a lo-co in my eyes) none of them has worked. Google passenger feedback on other forums about the short lived Skybus from a year or two ago. American SLF, it seems, do not take kindly to the lo-co equation. I can't speak on their behalf, but I also suspect that North American employees in the airline industry take kindly to, for example, a FR model of business management.

eu01
23rd Feb 2009, 17:38
A fresh news as an addition to the subject: trans-border airports. Tomorrow FR will announce a new destination in its network: it's Osijek on the outskirts of Croatia. Not much the centre of interest itself, a smallish town with only 100.000 inhabitants. The airport's location is interesting, however, at least from "my" point of view. Situated approx. 160 kilometers from the Serbian capital, Belgrade, not far from Bosnia and just 55 km from the Southern border of Hungary. Especially the amount of Serbian pax flying to (Germany?) could be significant there.

davidjohnson6
23rd Feb 2009, 18:00
While Croatia is closer to EU membership than Serbia, my understanding is that formal accession to the EU is unlikely before 2011. Further, Croatia is not about to join the Schengen area imminently. My understanding also is that Sarmellek / Balaton airport in southern Hungary was not a great performer for Ryanair.

eu01 - I hope you'll forgive my ignorance, but what is the benefit for Ryanair of flying from Osijek instead of somewhere close to Belgrade or Sarajevo ? Are Osijek airport simply paying a large amount of 'marketing support' ?

eu01
23rd Feb 2009, 18:13
@davidjohnson6
Well, Serbia has not implemented the Open Skies Agreement as yet. Osijek is the nearest possible apt in that regard. What Osijek or Slavonia region are paying for this? I have no idea, but knowing Ryanair...

Concerning Saramellek/ Balaton. It's not a viable destination outside of the Summer season (not enough population around).

Seljuk22
23rd Feb 2009, 18:14
Tomorrow there is a press conference at HHN.
But is FR allowed to fly from HHN to Osijek?

chrism20
23rd Feb 2009, 19:02
Is it just me or has the 'update' to the FR website brought back all the old problems that happened with the last update?

i.e. timing out etc

toinou59
23rd Feb 2009, 20:28
Hi, Just heard in the Grapevine that Ryanair are to close the Base in Marseille from Mid March, and will base there aircraft else where, which causes problems to people like myself for traveling to the south of france,Any updates please keep me posted..Regards Dumb737Girl

I hope it's a good joke !
I bought a Lille-Marseille last week for this summer :*

frfly
23rd Feb 2009, 22:09
This is my major concern with 100% webcheck. It just takes one system shutdown again to cause 1000's of PAX not being able to check in. Airports and contract out agencies will not and should not step in the cover the blow should this happen.

davidjohnson6
23rd Feb 2009, 23:43
It just takes one system shutdown again to cause 1000's of PAX not being able to check in. frfly - not quite sure I follow your reasoning here.

The important thing is to ensure that passengers can checkin online over as wide a time window before departure as possible. As Ryanair do not sell flexible tickets relatively few people have a need to delay webcheckin until only a few hours before departure.

If webcheck is open online from (for example) 5 days in advance, this leaves plenty of time for people to print the boarding pass at home. If one tries to checkin 24 hours in advance and the webserver is down.... just wait a couple of hours and try again. FR would be wise to strongly encourage pax to checkin early rather than leaving it to the last minute. Many major corporate websites are outsourced to 3rd parties with 24/7 monitoring and reliability guarantees - the sysadmin team should have specific instructions as to how to restart the webservice for each of its clients in the event of failure. I will assume that Ryanair are taking a similiar approach.

Once initial teething issues are resolved, IT systems like webservers tend to experience failure when they are put under a high degree of strain - either an unexpected surge in people visiting the website or because earlier warning signs of IT server strain were repeatedly ignored. Sometimes I have difficulty booking a flight at 8 pm in the evening - I've never had a problem at 3 am.

5 years ago, when everyone had to checkin at the airport, there would have been a big surge in boarding card issuance around 6 am on Saturday (and thus a higher risk of major system outage at a really bad time), but Tuesday mid-afternoon would have been relatively quiet. By moving to online checkin and spreading the demand for checkin over the week, the 6 am spike is reduced, and the webserver is less likely to experience a major outage.

BigT2207
24th Feb 2009, 06:21
Ryanair

New:Hahn, Frankfurt-Hahn (HHN) to Alicante (ALC)http://www.theairdb.com/img/info1.png
New:Hahn, Frankfurt-Hahn (HHN) to Carcassonne, Salvaza (CCF)http://www.theairdb.com/img/info1.png
New:Hahn, Frankfurt-Hahn (HHN) to Osijek (OSI)http://www.theairdb.com/img/info1.png
New:Hahn, Frankfurt-Hahn (HHN) to Rimini, Miramare (RMI)http://www.theairdb.com/img/info1.png

frfly
24th Feb 2009, 07:27
This is just from previous experiences. The website can have problems - espcecially during major seat sale promotions. Im sure this is currently being looked at, as there will not be the resources at the airports to have check in desks let alone check in staff should the system fail one day.

WebCheck is currently open from 14 days up until 4 hours. It should maybe be extended - perhaps you could check in online as soon as you have booked your flight. This would ensure the majority of passengers do it.I dont know how the newskies system would cope with this, but it is a possiblility. Currently I think U2 allow online check in fom 3 months prior to departure.

jpthomas72
24th Feb 2009, 10:17
As you mention the website: I didn't manage to get two bookings done both yesterday and tomorrow (HHN-MAN and BHX-HHN), on two different debit cards. 'Your Session is locked'. Kept reloading over night, no progress. Not very helpful. Maybe they are officially not supporting Firefox anymore ? Now have to check my bank account if they have taken the money off. Good news for their BHX competitors as not being able to book is quite a big show-stopper.
Juergen

pee
24th Feb 2009, 12:14
'Your Session is locked'I can just urge you to check your e-mail messages. Sometimes while your 'session is locked', the bookings still manage to succeed. If you keep trying, you could end having more than one ticket (and charge to your card as well).

Generally this software has been a big disaster, mainly due to the hardware resource consumption issues.

jpthomas72
24th Feb 2009, 14:25
Yes, what you say happened to me before, 'Session is locked' and I got the email, but now the booking processes really have died. No email, and checked my internet banking which would tell me instantly if something is taken from my account ('available balance'). Of course I'll only book LH or BE tomorrow or so when I'm completely sure Ryanair didn't take anything. But not try Ryanair a third time for the next days. It's annoying, they move BHX-HHN to such a handy departure time on Fridays, and I can't book it. Well, thanks to BHX and UK charges, actually going out (end April) the price is very similar on LH or BE, while as you know Ryanair blackmailed HHN so you can now fly out of HHN nearly for free.

daz211
24th Feb 2009, 19:01
Ryanair has always guaranteed no fuel surcharges, so why
are Thomas cook charging passengers a fuel surcharge when they book
flights through Ryanair ?

Advertising link removed

Or am I reading this all wrong ?

davidjohnson6
24th Feb 2009, 19:49
daz - I do not wish to start an Inquisition and it's entirely up to you as to what you say (or don't say) about yourself on this website, but because of your general comments on Ryanair, the perception might arise that you have a conflict of interest in some of your posts

BFS101
24th Feb 2009, 19:55
From another forum (credit to Kaitak for the story)...

Ryanair after internet bloggers!! Situation arose when a blogger alleged that he'd found a bug on the FR booking system. Professional response from Ryanair as usual. Love the comments from the public at the bottom of the links... Full stories below.

(http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/what-happened-when-a-blogger-d.php)What happened when a blogger decided to take on Ryanair (http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/what-happened-when-a-blogger-d.php) (http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/what-happened-when-a-blogger-d.php)


(http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/ryanair-doesnt-want-anything-t.php)Ryanair doesn't want anything to do with 'lunatic' bloggers! (http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/ryanair-doesnt-want-anything-t.php)
(http://www.travolution.co.uk/blog/2009/02/ryanair-doesnt-want-anything-t.php)

Seljuk22
25th Feb 2009, 17:18
Additional a/c for ALC?

FR announced ALC-HHN 4 weekly and tomorrow new routes from ALC to Lubeck, Aarhus and Santiago de Compostela should be announced.

I think therefore it could be that ALC will get an additional a/c or other routes will be reduced or cut.

GnRdL
25th Feb 2009, 17:39
Yes, 4th aircraft comes in june & 5th aircraft in july. All these new routes (HHN, AAR, LBC & SCQ) will start in july. With this new announce will be 37 routes from/to ALC.

Groetjes!

racedo
25th Feb 2009, 19:39
daz - I do not wish to start an Inquisition and it's entirely up to you as to what you say (or don't say) about yourself on this website, but because of your general comments on Ryanair, the perception might arise that you have a conflict of interest in some of your posts

Doesn't mean that his question is incorrect though does it ?

On one hand people jump up and accuse FR of scamming people and when someone else does it for people on FR routes the same people seem to keep really quiet.

Thomas Cook charged 'fictitious' fuel surcharge on Ryanair ticket - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4799508/Thomas-Cook-charged-fictitious-fuel-surcharge-on-Ryanair-ticket.html)

Thomas Cook have indicated they intent to refund the Passengers so guess FR is correct in this one and the otehr with screen scrapers.

apaul
25th Feb 2009, 20:33
I don't like ficticious fuel surcharges, but I don't see Ryanair's vastly inflated per passenger per leg card fees as any less dishonest. The same goes for plenty of other Ryanair 'fees'.

Seat62K
26th Feb 2009, 09:50
I refer to the "additional aircraft at Alicante" question.
When I was at Alicante the other day I noticed two Ryanair aircraft with all port side doors closed. Perhaps existing aircraft based there are under-utilised......
Nice to see the Madrid departure looking busy as I wasn't sure how Spanish travellers would take to using Ryanair for domestic travel (and I'd previously heard from Ryanair crew based in Spain that Alicante-Zaragoza loads can be very hit-and-miss).

EGAC_Ramper
26th Feb 2009, 10:03
I wouldn't say under utilised possibly as during this winter/economic climate even here at East Mids we have 6 based a/c for the route schedule although we also have 2 spares sitting around awaiting busier summer season no doubt to disappear off to other bigger bases. Although saying that they do get rotated through the routes with the other aircraft.


Regards:ok:

Seat62K
26th Feb 2009, 10:59
I've just read some posts several pages back concerning Ryanair not offering connecting flights and recall that when I arrived at Madrid on Ryanair a few weeks ago that there was a monitor on the way to passport control/baggage reclaim specifically listing connecting flights. I noticed a Ryanair flight to Alicante on this monitor. I did wonder at the time whether the airline is aware of this.

Cyrano
26th Feb 2009, 13:36
there was a monitor on the way to passport control/baggage reclaim specifically listing connecting flights

But surely that's just showing all the departing flights due to leave in the next (e.g.) 2 hours, not "flights-that-someone-has-chosen-to-designate-as-connecting-flights"? Nothing to do with whether Ryanair guarantees the connection!

Seat62K
26th Feb 2009, 17:14
No, whilst walking to passport control there was a separate bank of monitors showing all departures; here I'm referring to a monitor clearly indicating that these were connecting flights. This monitor had a much smaller number of flights.

racedo
26th Feb 2009, 17:41
No, whilst walking to passport control there was a separate bank of monitors showing all departures; here I'm referring to a monitor clearly indicating that these were connecting flights. This monitor had a much smaller number of flights.


Good spot. :ok:

Could be something that is being tested in a small local market without much media fanfare or anybody saying anything. Wouldn't be the first time someone tried an idea well away from media.......things need to be tested somewhere I guess. If it works it may get looked at further if not then not.

eu01
26th Feb 2009, 18:15
Somewhere the connecting flights SHOULD be tested, anyway. Otherwise the development will be crippled by FR's own rules (or business model, if you prefer).

Look at new routes' frequencies. Osijek to Hahn just twice a week. It's symptomatic, I'd say. Obviously, Ryanair is learning to be more prudent, more realistic while planning the new routes. In some way it's a good approach, at least from the economical point of view. However, it's also more and more minimalistic approach.

The same OSI to HHN route could successfully run daily, maybe even twice daily, who knows. But under one condition. Frequencies could be raised only if HHN became a true hub, providing a variety of connections; from OSI via HHN to NYO, TRF, EDI, DUB, MAD and so on. If not, the limits are very near. Some other no-frills, serving bigger airports, do not have to bother with connecting flights, they can probably continue the point-to-point system with no changes at all. These choosing smaller airports (especially FR) should start thinking differently, or the LF's/ frequencies will fall again.

Based
26th Feb 2009, 18:44
The problem here (and key to their success to date!) is that Ryanair like to keep things simple. Once you introduce connecting flights you introduce delays, lost bags, etc. - the exact things they currently measure their performance on.

Probably more importantly, you introduce more complex systems and work practices. Flights can no longer be planned independently of each other, yield management becomes more complex, etc. All this requires additional software applications and significantly more staff training. staff retention then becomes an issue, etc. etc.

I'm not saying connecting flights are a stupid idea but it would definitely require a complete rethink of their whole business model!

darren1
26th Feb 2009, 18:50
FR's website can't cope with point to point bookings, how on earth will it be able to cope with connecting flights?

eu01
26th Feb 2009, 19:08
> Once you introduce connecting flights you introduce lost bags
Not necessarily. No connecting flights for pax with hold baggage (take the offer or leave it, MOL would love it)

> Flights can no longer be planned independently of each other
True. The schedules should be re-shaped anyway, even without any official connecting flights. Think of all these who change the planes "unofficially", think of millions of euros/pounds FR earns thanks to them. Creating more opportunities = winning more pax = earning more money

> it would definitely require a complete rethink of their whole business model
True. Why not earn more money using a mixed model. Fly cheaply combining flights on your own, say, 20 euros + 20 euros for a two-leg travel or buy a complete ticket (connecting flights) for 100 euros and lessen the risk. FR do not have to connect every flight everywhere. Just at one or two airports, just "safe" connections.

> FR's website can't cope with point to point bookings, how on earth will it be able to cope with connecting flights?
By selling the connecting flights via a different website or even outsourcing the service.

racedo
26th Feb 2009, 19:42
Can see where you going on the EU01

Hmmm interesting concept as with removal of checkin to kiosk and bag drop then you remove need to exit security and recheck as can do it airside if required but charge passengers an add on fare anyway for through checkin luggage or as you say not available if you have carryon.

Additionally with Superhubs you do open up an even bigger market place because the 1 flight a day suddenly get a lot bigger via a Superhub.

Its not changing business model that dramtically as work within what you have got anyway but its adding a lot more to what you have to really develop the network..

Based
26th Feb 2009, 20:16
My main point, eu01 and racedo, is you don't seem to be acknowledging the increased costs, particularly staff costs, associated with this.

What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times! Other opton is to allow people to create self-connecting flights as they currently do and suffer none of the risk! There are good reasons why connecting flights aren't currently offered!

Cyrano
26th Feb 2009, 20:39
What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times!

Let's just imagine you focus on one major base, STN say, or perhaps more likely HHN.

Say you specify that passengers with no hold baggage, where there's at least x minutes between arriving and departing flight, can pay say EUR30 (or whatever) extra, and in return if they miss the departing flight FR will get them on the next flight, or put them up overnight if necessary.

Clearly you define "x" (120?) based on your punctuality stats so that the probability of passengers missing the onward flight is very small, say 1%.
That means that for every passenger who ends up missing the onward flight and needing a payout, there's a "pot" of EUR3000 - enough to cover a decent hotel room in HHN, I suspect :cool: , or more to the point, enough to give you a tidy profit, even if you take into account the cost of setting up a "missed connections" desk.

Seems like a fairly logical extension of the business model to me - allows FR to offer a considerable number of new city-pairs which just happen to involve a change of plane. Southwest's managed to do connecting flights for ages. And I'm not the only one who has difficulty seeing where FR is going to put their vast number of on-order aircraft unless they stretch their business model in some new direction. Sure, some airline failures will make a bit of space for them to enter new markets, but not that much.

C.

racedo
26th Feb 2009, 21:23
My main point, eu01 and racedo, is you don't seem to be acknowledging the increased costs, particularly staff costs, associated with this.

Probably little extra cost as redployment of staff goes on all the time so changing for example Hahn into a place with more onwards flights wouldn't cost any more. Potentially less as you increase throughput traffic with same staff.


What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times! Other opton is to allow people to create self-connecting flights as they currently do and suffer none of the risk! There are good reasons why connecting flights aren't currently offered!

That is the benefit of a couple of Superhubs i.e. say Stansted and Hahn. If you have an 8am flight to Stansted & Hahn with passenger onward to Morocco then potentially you switch a passenger onto Hahn if you know Stansted is clogged up......passenger still gets to destination a bit late BUT you move them around the problem. Carryon bags well who cares whether you go via Hahn or Stansted as long as get there.

Given FR on time performance is so high then problem is generally a full base going down as in Lush Mob crashing the fences so all flights were delayed in which case you do what you can to get everything back up and running.

Interesting change to Business Plan but being flexible is what keeps you in business.

Skipness One Echo
26th Feb 2009, 22:25
You'd have to pay handling agents or in house staff to change reservations and chase bags etc etc. It is completely contrary to the strategy of the last decade and adds a degree of complexity and complication that is anathema to the business model.

eu01
27th Feb 2009, 02:45
Cyrano's calculation exemplifies very well the small scale of risk associated with such kind of business model extension if the planning is made well. Actually one can achieve more profit out of that. The handling agents? If you concentrate all such activities at just one centrally located airport (in Germany, presumably?), you can afford it. "Being flexible is what keeps you in business". Right. And many of us have "difficulty seeing where FR is going to put their vast number of on-order aircraft unless they stretch their business model in some new direction". Especially as their boss is very reluctant to accept any new airports to the network when not given the best possible terms. It takes months or years to negotiate, new planes are coming and the time is ticking out.

Facelookbovvered
27th Feb 2009, 06:17
I think part of the problem here is that Ryanair have already changed their business model, in the past they flew from somewhere to nowhere approached worked well, but as aircraft keep coming they are moving into other markets places such as the increase in flights between the med and the Midlands, suddenly they are having to deal with the aumblift delay and of course all this recent bollocks about binning checking desks is unlikely to work well when the summer med season gets going full tilt,, needs some fresh thinking if not to see further reduction in loads, you'll be unlikely to forget your Ryanair experience if your wife has had to stump up £30 at the gate to get either her hand bag or gifts on board

ChalfontFlyer
27th Feb 2009, 06:54
Michael O' Leary has just been interviewed on the BBC Breakfast TV programme & stated that as part of Ryanair's policy of raising discretionary income they are (yes - seriously!) looking at introducing coin slot locks on the loo doors!!

He stated "It'll cost a £1 to spend a 1P on Ryanair"

Presumably it will also take the 1 Euro coin as well!!!

alm1
27th Feb 2009, 07:00
Other low cost carrier Norwegian Air Shutle is offering connecting flights to destinations within Norway (via Oslo hub).
Seems to work well. Of course, there is an additional charge when buying connecting flights on the same booking (last time I flew last year it was 3 euro for each flight segment).

potkettleblack
27th Feb 2009, 07:38
It will never work and is surely just him trying to get free publicity. Consider your average Friday night flight. As the seatbelt signs go out there is a queue within about 30 seconds of people for the toilets. Do you think that each one is going to close the door and retrieve their quid or euro. Me thinks he will get his quid but only his quid which is going to take a long time to pay for the locks. And if he is going to have his cabin crew "monitoring" the doors of the loos then he will be losing money from the cart sales. Its a non runner and no doubt he is probably about to deliver some bad news to the markets about his trading results.

Seat62K
27th Feb 2009, 07:46
To return to the "connecting flights" topic, didn't Air Berlin try a "mega hub" at Palma de Mallorca (remember those wonderful £28 return fares via it to cities all over Spain a few years ago?)? Waves of flights would arrive at PMI with numerous departures shortly after. Now, I'm no expert on Air Berlin, but my perception is that it scaled back this hub-and-spoke operation, at least from the UK. Does anyone know more about this?; if Air Berlin re-thought the whole idea the reasons could be relevant to this discussion.
Connecting flights via airports like Stansted would be greatly complicated by having to go through security again.

conradmueller
27th Feb 2009, 08:05
As you might know, this mega hub in PMI still exists.
AB is the biggest operator in PMI. Just no flights to UK anymore.

racedo
27th Feb 2009, 09:55
You'd have to pay handling agents or in house staff to change reservations and chase bags etc etc. It is completely contrary to the strategy of the last decade and adds a degree of complexity and complication that is anathema to the business model.

2 ways around this

1.) - if you check bags then in initial stages you need to collect them at destination airport so can't do a hub system if you check bags
2.) - RFID tag each bag in which case finding it becomes very very easy as scanners everywhere....also as less people travelling with bags then maybe not such a huge issue as maybe only looking for 2 bags in 60 rather than for example a BA A320 where 2 bags in 200.

Think you have been around long enough to have seen changes to business models not just at FR but everybody else which 10 years ago would have been laughed at.

I think its an option with initialy some complications but these get worked through.

racedo
27th Feb 2009, 09:59
Connecting flights via airports like Stansted would be greatly complicated by having to go through security again.If transiting then wouldn't need to go through security again as would stay airside.

Additionally would assume a Schengen area airport would do it first. It would not add anything to security because its assummed if there then have visa to be there anyway and that issue is an immigration one not an airline one provided they have vouched person could travel.

People joining from non Schengen would just join as they do now into many of the international airports when transiting.

conradmueller
27th Feb 2009, 10:20
In Stansted you can´t stay airside. As you know arriving and departing pax have to be seperated.
So in STN, you have to go to arrivals and then take the shortcut (with new security) to the right and enter the departure lounge. Thats how AB made it.

racedo
27th Feb 2009, 10:43
Thanks Conrad for explaining Stansted but does indicate its a potential goer. Nuts an bolts take a while but not difficult to see it working.

Jippie
27th Feb 2009, 10:49
According to nu.nl: nu.nl/economie | Betalen voor wc in vliegtuigen Ryanair (http://www.nu.nl/economie/1924568/betalen-voor-wc-in-vliegtuigen-ryanair.html)
O'Leary said they will start charging 1 pound for using the toilet.
We always thought of that as a joke...

Bengt
27th Feb 2009, 10:59
is surely a joke from MOL. This has been a joke for several year. It was supposed to be the next fee from FR...

Charlie Roy
27th Feb 2009, 11:59
O'Leary said they will start charging 1 pound for using the toilet.

Without getting into the specifics, under EU law if someone is selling food and drink in a premises (here an aircraft) with more than X seats and/or more than N square meters, they are required to provide toilets free of charge. Thousands of businesses across Europe do not respect this law (many eateries in shopping centres provide shared toilet facilities that you need to pay for - ILLEGAL). This law is not being enforced to any significant degree. But surely the EU would challenge a massive entity like Ryanair if their were to ignore this law.

I suppose, as a work around, by buying something to eat/drink on a Ryanair flight you could receive a token for free use of the toilet, where other passengers would need to pay.

Based
27th Feb 2009, 12:11
I didn't even think I was that passionate about the connecting flight debate! A few more points to add against the idea - a lot of the money made flying to small peripheral airports is through 'marketing costs', etc. not through passenger numbers. The first flight out of these airports will be towards late morning, possibly the afternoon, as a based aircraft has out to fly to the airport first reducing connection oportunities if it ever became an actual service offering. Ryanair open themselves up to a lot more EU regulations regarding delays/re-routing, etc. Ryanair already have self-connecting passengers but suffer no risk in carrying them. Ryanair is all about efficency, offering connecting flights, even a few, doesn't fit into that, that's why it's a complete shift in it's business model.

wind check
27th Feb 2009, 13:05
I have booked a ticket with them:

1 baggage to check in: 30 euros
if it weights over 15 kg I will be charged 16 euros per kilos over 15 kg

and finally, to pay I am charged 20 euros because I pay with visa card which is the only way to pay (they don´t accept cheque nor cash).


:\ :ok::\

dope05
27th Feb 2009, 13:14
Oh come on, its just a publicity stunt by MOL, he's not been on the telly for a while and he loves being on the telly.

RVF750
27th Feb 2009, 13:15
Welcome to FR's business model.

Dangle cheap fares at you, suck you in and sting as much out of you as possible. They'll charge you to breath soon......

Still, at least there will be plenty of seats available for the gullible, with today's noise about charging for using the toilet, I reckon the average passenger might think again about even bothering with FR.

Ten West
27th Feb 2009, 13:21
Didn't take the daily mash guys long did it?

http://http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/ryanair-planes-to-smell-strongly-of-urine-and-faeces-200902271609/

paully
27th Feb 2009, 13:30
Soon it will be make sure you GO before you leave the terminal building ...dont have anything to drink, keep yer legs crossed and dont book a long flight :=........IF you cant make sure you have a supply of £1 coins on you :ugh: (foreign coins not accepted) :{

paully
27th Feb 2009, 13:32
Still makes himself look an arse though doesnt he???