View Full Version : Ryanair - 6
1st Sep 2008, 22:12
There's been a lot written about the dropping of these two routes here and on the Cork thread. Here are some stats:
ORK - EMA: first half of 2008: 36k pax, Average flown LF: 57%. The route has one of the worst LFs from the EMA base.
In addition, as has been pointed out earlier, the combined effect of this route and BHX - SNN (35k pax, LF: 59%) has had a dramatic impact on EMA - SNN (29k pax, LF 47%, collapsing from 48.5k pax and an LF of 71% for the same period last year and now the worst LF from EMA).
It would appear that there simply isn't enough traffic to sustain these three routes plus EI/WW on BHX-ORK.
ORK - PIK: first half of 2008: 37k pax, Average flown LF: 54%. The route has worst LF from the PIK base. And the second worst? By some strange coincidence, the 2nd worst is PIK - SNN (35k pax, 54% LF), which was already weak (39k pax and 58% LF for the first half of last year).
As is happening on an increasing number of routes, FR's biggest competitor is themselves. Some overlapping markets are not large enough.
Personally, with stats like these, I can't imagine that carriers will be queueing up to replace services on these routes.
1st Sep 2008, 22:39
Always good to read your posts as they always do make alot of sense! Surely Glasgow would warrant an ATR42 daily? I thought that Aer Arann would jump at a chance to operate Glasgow.
Shannon/Prestwick has always been quite low on the boardings in the past. I think alot of these services out of Shannon are similar with the exception of the London routes.
I think that we will see Ryanair dropping some Shannon routes in the very near future, I simply dont believe that a 5 strong (or is it 4) fleet is warranted at Shannon for short hauld flights? What do you think?
However, as has been stated on here, SAA will have to agree to Ryanair's terms?
2nd Sep 2008, 07:01
2nd Sep 2008, 07:29
When will summer 09 be on sale?
2nd Sep 2008, 07:59
So that's the real reason for dropping EMA ORK and ORK PIK. Heard that the number of routes in trouble in Shannon is 7 rather than 4 or 5. I see they've announced SNN-TRN, they offered that to ORK but the CAA saw them coming.
They weren't going to give incentives for a once weekly route and anyway there is a wide range of ski flights available from Cork to Plovdiv, Munich, Geneva, Salzburg, Innsbruck and Andorra (Gerona) none of which are operated by Ryanair.
2nd Sep 2008, 08:20
Well if they had to drop 2 routes out of Cork due poor loads, what about the routes out of Bhd? Load factors there are no better and the flights are being given away. How long until Bhd goes?
The load factor figure is misleading as it includes some very poor months at route start-up. The raw passenger numbers this year on ORK-EMA have been
Jan - 2720
Feb - 3705
Mar - 6538
May - 7811
Jun - 8128
Jul - 8562
The last figure represents a load factor of around 73%. Not brilliant, but not bad for a relatively new route.
Now, we don't know the yields, but then we're led to believe Ryanair's business model isn't dependent on the fair yields anyway.
The impact on EMA-SNN is probably far closer to the truth.
Kerry is an example of Ryanair's (perhaps understandable) Irish-centric view of the world. Would they bother flying there if it were not in Ireland?first half of 2008:
ORK - EMA: Average flown LF: 57%.
EMA - SNN, LF 47%
Such results are certainly far from acceptable. However, regardless of the supposedly Irish-centric view, Ireland is just an indicator of the issues to come in the low-cost market. Namely, its saturation is very near if nothing changes. Of course, there still exist some niche areas to be exploited*, but the classic model of low-cost travelling shows an acute need for changes. I tend to agree with one of my predecessors that a demand stimulating solution could be found in a WISE use of connecting flights. With point to point-only routes still existing as a core business and, alongside, connecting flights to destinations with less populated areas around. I do believe in some sort of convergence approaching in the aviation world. That's because more flexibility and versatility can expand the area of competition between the different groups of airlines. No-frills can compete very well on main routes, but by refusing to provide more comprehensive selection of destinations they cannot challenge legacy airlines, being unable to provide the diversity required. The point to point system is a main obstacle here.
MOL looks as if he were too slow to adapt to the present situation when his airline is much bigger than in early years and there are (too) many other lcc's around. Growing older? Oops, I'm older than him... well, never mind!
* the areas to be exploited? Not much left.
- Russia. Very difficult market, hard to penetrate. St. Petersburg as an exception (close to the EU border)
- Central Europe. Not much left, maybe a few places like Munich in Germany, Central France if a base created
- Ireland/UK: almost saturated
- Iberian peninsula: present fast progress shows the signs of slowing
- Italy. Some opportunities if Alitalia takes a few steps back
- Eastern EU: Hmm. From Poland to Rome? Poles will always be keen to see the Pope ;). Some links to Spain?
- Northern Europe: Sweden sees much competition, routes from Finland to the South: still unexploited
- South-Eastern Europe. Greece. While too distant from the Islands, suitable to access from the Central European bases
But not so much overall.
2nd Sep 2008, 16:23
Heard that the number of routes in trouble in Shannon is 7 rather than 4 or 5. I see they've announced SNN-TRN, they offered that to ORK but the CAA saw them coming.
Typically this is unfounded and incorrect.
There are three routes which stick out to me as needing attention. I've seen the figures, and I'm just giving my unbiased opinion.
Ryan2000 can you say that every single route operating out of Cork is "perfect"- The loads are excellent, the yields etc, I think not. It would be unusual for this to be the case in any airport, regardless
FR launches 16 new routes
Apparently FR will fly from Stansted to both Pau and Lourdes - while the distance between the two airports is only 35 km.
Fortunately, London is probably big enough to make this new route profitable. Otherways... My God! What a nonsense! Lourdes is a typical pilgrimage site for Roman Catholics. There is nothing more in the entire city than sanctuaries, processions, prayers, spirituality, the miracle healings and so on. I've been there once during my travels, the place is certainly worth seeing. But while obviously every member of the Anglican Communion is welcome there too, is it the best selected link and potentially the most profitable out of all possible routes? Flights from Dublin, Milan, any Spanish base would attract thousands of Catholic pilgrims, flying from London will attract mostly tourists. Nothing against it, but for me it's one more illustration of how ill-prepared the route planning at Ryanair is. :ugh: Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
2nd Sep 2008, 17:33
fivejuliet, I'm not suggesting that Cork routes are perfect. Clearly EMA and PIK are not. However it was MOL who told the Oireachtas committee in July that Shannon was the one Ryanair base that was losing money.
Also Ryanair has announced Kerry Grenoble, you read it here first although I didn't get as far as naming the French airport
2nd Sep 2008, 18:08
I agree with 840 on the figures. Prestwick - Cork is up to 7603 in August an average of 122 pax. Given that the route is in its first year is not bad especially when you look at Prestwick-Shannon down 17% on last year to 7517. One route appears to impact on the other or could it just be the effects of the credit crunch?.
2nd Sep 2008, 18:30
in the short term the oil price has dropped well below what FR have hedged it at. This makes it complex as how much flying is profitable as oilis $108.80 on the spot market. FR have hedged in a higher operating cost.
(from July q1 results) We have taken advantage of the recent weakness in oil prices and are now hedged 90% for September at $129 per barrel, 80% for Q3 at $124 per barrel, but are unhedged for Q4.
The weak pound is going to hurt the UK to Europe market in the winter. Ryanair is also making a big loss on its Aer lingus shareholding. Also noticeable that the airlines going under are not the ones in direct compertition with FR but those flying to the US.
Ryanair has lots of cash in the bank so its not about to go under but is is making more mistakes as it is starting to dig a hole. If it keeps pulling out of routes when the start up discounts end it will get offered less discounts. The power is shifting to the airports.
2nd Sep 2008, 18:40
My understanding is that 'hedging' gives the buyer the right, but not the obligation, to purchase at a given price. Typically it costs 10% of the hedged price up front.
So if FR have hedged at $129/bbl, as long as oil remains below $116.10, they are better off buying it as required.
2nd Sep 2008, 19:44
My God! What a nonsense! Lourdes is a typical pilgrimage site for Roman Catholics.
Ya but Lourdes airport has a catchment area similar to Shannon airport.
Ok, the airport happens to be near a pilgrimage site, and they have rightly taken avantage of that in the naming the airport, but this Stansted route will appeal to some French in the region wanting to visit London (or chance their arm with a connection to another Stansted route). Ex-pats on both ends of the route will naturally be potential customers as well, and then there are the Brits in and around London who'll want to visit the Lourdes*, the surrounding region, the Pyrenees and the ski resorts. Ya, infact with a 1 x weekly frequency on Saturdays in winter, this is effectively a ski-route in Ryanair's eyes.
*The Lourdes season runs from Easter to end October (roughly), with maybe a bit of activity on Saint Bernedette's day (February) and the start of Lent. But mainly for winter the whole place is a ghost town.
Got me, it was in fact meant to be a bit provocative. Nevertheless I think the entire FR network could be better optimized and some routes better chosen - sometimes I miss the logic of some decisions, that's all.
2nd Sep 2008, 21:19
I have to hand it to you, you were spot on with your information on the new route linking Kerry with a French city. Well done, you are very reliable!
3rd Sep 2008, 08:09
3rd Sep 2008, 08:39
My understanding is that the ryanair hedge is to have a fixed price for a percentage of the oil needs. In effect they have bought ahead of time. Easyjet often buy caps which limits the price they pay but gives them a saving if the price drops. This cap costs money were as buying at a fixed price is cheap but does not reward the airline if the price falls. Easyjet currently has only 28% of its fuel hedged so may overall be buying fuel 10% cheaper then Ryanair until December.
3rd Sep 2008, 21:24
A new daily Liverpool to Paris Beauvais service will also commence from 3rd November
3rd Sep 2008, 21:47
It is not in bad taste that I post this but Lourdes services will not attract the quickest turn-arounds. So, maybe not the Ryanair model.
3rd Sep 2008, 22:42
Where do people get the number of passengers and load figure data quoted in this thread?
4th Sep 2008, 08:01
Google Provisional Airport Statistics. You will find the CAA actuals for every airport and route in the British Isles on a Monthly basis.
Note that they are actuals and not seats sold which is how EZY/RYR report.
You then need to know the number of flights on a route in the month and the seating config, the hey presto you have a load factor.
Is there much space for low cost carriers left in Europe? As an addition to the subject, the news just published in Denmark: private investors planning to open in 2010 a new "low-cost haven" terminal A on Kastrup's grounds were refused the necessary permision by the Copenhagen Airport.
Meanwhile, Ryanair has cut a third of its Danish routes in both Billund and Århus.
Thus, any expansion near Copenhagen will be hindered by lack of the suitable terminal, Kastrup is at present one of the dearest airports in Europe.
4th Sep 2008, 11:30
Ryanair has just updated the stockmarket claiming a 90% load factor. This is overstated as the count every seat booked flown or not. The percentage of people who fly when they have only paid £10 for a seat booked x months ahead must be well below 100%. The other trick is that only count seats that are avalable to book in load factor. Where they are limiited to say 140 pax on a 186 pax plane they use the 140 pax. They could cheat by making more seats unbookable on very early or late flights. Does anyone know how many sectors were flown by RYA in August? Then we can work out the availabe seats for sale compared to real seat on planes.
The Real Slim Shady
4th Sep 2008, 11:37
Some of the airports have limited seat availability due to the landing performance of the aircraft on a short runway or the PCN of the runway or ramp. Where that is the case extra seats can't be made available earlier or later and the LF is based on the seats available.
5th Sep 2008, 18:51
This is overstated as the count every seat booked flown or not.
5% not flying (blind guess) at €10 is €25m (as opposed to €0 for not booking) and I suppose he gets to keep airport taxes in most of the cases too. I'm sure investors and O'Leary are happy to see exactly that.
fivejuillet, unbiased? You're probably the most pro Shannon poster on this forum. There are undoubtedly more than 3 routes in trouble at Shannon. For example: - East Midlands - loads are simply disastrous. 42% for example in the peak month of August. - Prestwick - has been struggling with loads ever since Shannon-Edinburgh was launched - Liverpool - passenger numbers aren't really high enough to justify a daily service. - Beauvais - from what I've heard loads are okay but yields are desperate, given the sector length. Yields have got worse since Air France launched SNN-CDG. -At least one of the Polish routes. From October Ryanair will have 4 routes to southern Poland. This just isn't sustainable given the slow down of the Irish economy, with lots of Poles returning to Poland, or moving to other EU countries. Katowice and Krakow for example are just 90 minutes away from each other. - Berlin. I know someone who travelled on the route and loads were fairly poor. Fares are also rock bottom whenever I've looked. At one point it was just €1 including all taxes. For a route of this length, theres no way this could be profitable.
5th Sep 2008, 21:27
You're being very pedantic. You need to look at the routes as a wider picture over a much longer period of time than you actually are. You're only bringing EMA to light as in recent times loads have suffered as a result of Cork-EMA, same with PIK.
BVA has a sector length the same as SNN-STN, 75mins. It is one of the best performing routes ever operated from Shannon with nearly 350,000 pax pa.
Tom the Tenor
5th Sep 2008, 22:37
Well, I accept that Beauvais has been quite a performer for snn down the years and certainly in terms of load and very likely in yield as well a lot of the time but can it be expected to continue in the climate of a significantly worsening economic downturn in Ireland? These new conditions will surely deter the weekenders from some of their trips abroad and along with the added CityJet/AF three daily services from CDG some dimunition of market share and yield must be expected by Ryanair in the winter months ahead?
Boeing's machinists went on strike today, seeking improved pay and job security as the planemaker benefits from record orders and tries to keep its 787 Dreamliner schedule from slipping further.
Boeing will deliver planes completed prior to the strike and won't assemble any others during the walkout, spokesman Healy said. Last night, Ryanair Holdings Plc, Continental Airlines Inc. and Alaska Air Group Inc. each had two 737s visible at Seattle's Boeing Field, a base for making deliveries.
fivejuillet, 350,000 per annum????? You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The route only operates once daily. That means total annual capacity is 137,970. (i.e 365 days per years, 189 seater plane, return trip - 365*189*2), and thats not even allowing for Christmas day etc. when flights don't operate. As for blaming poor loads on the East Midlands and Prestwick routes on Cork, those routes were doing badly before Cork-EMA and Cork-PIK were ever started, starting the routes from Cork has just made things worse. Looking at the CAA sats for November 2007 for example (the month before Cork-EMA and Cork-PIK were launched), SNN-EMA carried 5,476 passengers (a 48% load) meanwhile SNN-PIK carried 5,581 passengers (a 49% load). You shouldn't be making statements unless you can back them up with figures. As for saying SNN-Beauvais has the same flight time as SNN-STN, I've never travelled SNN-STN but I have travelled ORK-STN and that has a flight time of between 55 and 60 minutes depending on the weather. Its very surprising that you say that SNN-STN has a flight time of 75 minutes as I would have thought ORK and SNN would be a similiar distance from STN?
6th Sep 2008, 17:23
I never mentioned flight time- it is block time.
In this instance I do not think it is I who does not know what they are talking about! I will say no more seeing as anything realistic (and true) I say is deemed false :=:ugh:
6th Sep 2008, 18:09
en2r is correct, 350,000 passengers is off the wall. to be achieving this level of passengers on the Shannon/Beauvais route there would need to be almost 3 flights a day in each direction.
Fivejuliet, where do you get your information on Passenger number for Shannon routes to the continent? These are not published, well not officially? IAA dont release this sort of information, however, such information would be great. The CAA in the UK do publish Uk/Ireland so we can get sight of this information.
Future 737NG pic(?)
6th Sep 2008, 23:57
Was wondering if anyone could help explain why Ryanair suffered so many delayed flights yesterday please (many well over 1 hour delay)? Most other carriers seemed unaffected or to a much lesser extent.
A selection of arrival times at DUB yesterday (6th):
Origin Airline Flight Scheduled Time Status
Reus Ryanair FR1973 15:15 Arrived 2240
Birmingham Ryanair FR667 16:25 Delayed 0059
Stansted Ryanair FR295 18:25 Arrived 2147
Almeria Ryanair FR7143 21:30 Arrived 2328
Gatwick Ryanair FR1127 22:05 Delayed 0135
Thanks in advance.
7th Sep 2008, 08:48
Future 737NG pic(?)
I don't know the specific answer as to why FR flight were worse effected, I think the reason may partly be that they schedule much more tightly than most of the other airlines. ie shorter turnaround times. EI do short turnarounds on alot of flights but on a lot of european flights the turnaround can be as much as an hour and same for LHR. So I would suspect that Fr find it much harder to catch up once the schedule gets behind.
7th Sep 2008, 09:46
Shannon is an interesting case because it crops up time and time again (often in FR's own communications) as an FR base that is struggling.
Irish passenger stats can be found here:
The stats show that FR carried over 1.6M pax to and from SNN in 2007. Perhaps the biggest surprise is that FR have managed to reach this level of traffic at SNN at all, given that the airport doesn't exactly lie in a massively populated catchment area.
SNN-BVA carried 94K pax in 2006 (72% flown LF) and 99K pax in 2007 (74% flown LF). The route was well inside SNN's top 10 by LF. The best loads were on the routes to Poland, LGW, AGP and MJV. The worst were on some of the regional UK routes. Interestingly, SNN's overall average LF for 2007 appeared to be broadly in line with that of LPL and MAD and was better than PIK.
I find it difficult to imagine that Shannon has just a handful of routes that cause the entire base to be loss-making, however, I may be wrong.
Shannon currently has 33 FR routes (STN, CRL, BVA,PIK, LPL, EMA, GRO, NRN, BGY, LGW, BRS, NTE, AGP, MAN, WRO, MJV, BIQ, CCF, FAO, KRK, TSF, EDI, BHX, LTN, FUE, TFS, ALC, PMI, SXF, LCJ, KRK, KTW, TRN), 6 of which operate in Summer only.
Shannon also has a long list of dropped routes (10 so far: NYO, LBC, HHN, CIA, BOH, DUB, KUN, RIX, MAD and LBA). LTN and LCJ have already been dropped once and then re-started. So FR have launched 43 routes from SNN and binned 10, giving a 23% dumper rate, which is roughly double the FR average.
What would worry me if I were in FR's shoes is the question where any future growth can come from at SNN. It seems to me that there are very few obvious destinations that haven't already been tried: The UK is covered, except perhaps for the North East, which hasn't been a particularly happy hunting ground for FR so far, key destinations in the major European markets (Germany, Italy, France and Spain) have all been tried with varying levels of success, the one excursion to Scandinavia (NYO) didn't work, Poland is covered (and no longer appears to be a growth market).
Where is left? BUD and BTS might work, BHD might be worth a go, MLA might get some help from the Maltese authorities, the likes of PSA, MRS and REU might be ok in Summer, but now I'm really scratching my head ... Is this as good as it gets for Shannon or can FR somehow conjure up more routes to push their passenger numbers at the airport past the 2M per year mark?
7th Sep 2008, 11:03
I couldnt have put it better myself, anna_list :ok:
7th Sep 2008, 11:43
fivejuliet - annalist has completely contradicted you with facts. :ugh:
fivejuillet, the point is that you haven't said anything realistic or true. You seem to have plucked the 350,000 pax per annum figure for the Beauvais route out of thin air, and the facts presented by Anna List show that the route carried over 250,000 less passengers that you claimed. You blamed ORK-EMA for poor figures on SNN-EMA but as I highlighted in the figures above, the route was struggling before ORK-EMA was ever launched. You also claimed that SNN-Beauvais had the same sector length as SNN-STN. This just isn't true. If you look at the Ryanair website you'll see that SNN-Beauvais is advertised as taking 100 minutes, while SNN-STN is advertised as taking only 75 minutes. MOL has publically stated that Shannon is just one of two bases in the entire Ryanair network that is loss making. With the current price of oil, and the current economic condition, I can't see Ryanair continuing with this for much longer. It is inevitable that the loss making routes will have to be reduced/axed. I think a lot of Shannon supporters like fivejuillet are still in denial about this.
7th Sep 2008, 13:36
Annalist thinking could also apply to Cork although it would probably support a few more routes than Shannon. Therein lies the reason why the CAA are under no pressure to deal with Ryanair.
The fact is that almost all of the viable short haul routes from Cork are already serviced by Aerlingus, Aer Arann and a handful of overseas airlines. Most of these are on full charges so why would Cork give Ryanair the kind of deal they're looking for if its only going to dilute their existing business.
The only way for Ryanair to get control of Cork is to meet the opposition head on. ie. Cork to Beauvais, Gerona, Ciampino, Murcia, Malaga and Faro would put it up to Aerlingus while EDI, BRS, NTE would put RE under pressure.
This would involve paying full charges.
A 2nd strategy would be to avail of Cork's existing incentive scheme and fly to destinations such as Milan, Biarritz, Pisa, Charleroi and Hahn. This would indirectly put pressure on the opposition as it would dilute their loads and yields due to the limited size of the Cork Catchment area.
The existing strategy of calling hyped up press conferences and attacking CAA/DAA isn't working.
7th Sep 2008, 14:21
en2r, excuse me, I am full sure I am not "in denial" :mad:
The published flight time as advertised by Ryanair is padded to allow for delays, the block time for crew is exactly the same for both STN and BVA, varying perhaps by 5 minutes. The whole point of mentioning sector length etc was that someone pointed out that BVA was "unprofitable for its sector length". Unfortunately the 350k pax figure I had in my head was from a Ryanair memo a year ago stating that the said figure had been carried since its inauguration.
The attitude of the "Cork supporters" indicates that any flight operating into Cork is not/and could not be affected by the economic climate, oil prices etc! There is just as much a chance of routes from Cork, not nessecarily Ryanair being culled in this instance as there is Shannon
7th Sep 2008, 15:59
FiveJuliet - perhaps your account has been hacked, but you are in a state of violent contradiction.
BVA has a sector length the same as SNN-STN
SNN STN 392 mi 1.20 mins 3.05 minutes return block time
SNN BVA 530 mi 1.40 mins 3.45 minutes return block time
It is one of the best performing routes ever operated from Shannon with nearly 350,000 pax pa.
I will say no more seeing as anything realistic (and true) I say is deemed false
Not deemed false -proven false. Throughout this thread people are pulling you up on false statements you make. :ugh:
Last Friday, Ryanair's Michael Cawley has visited Finland. In Tampere he said he was very satisfied with Ryanair routes to Finland (everywhere a standard sentence I guess), especially with German and Bergamo routes - and indeed they've been running excellent. After the upcoming upgrade of the Terminal 2 he sees Tampere as one of the new FR bases. Next year will bring a couple of new routes to Tampere and one of the destinations (not announced yet) will most likely be in Central-Eastern Europe (Poland, Czech Rep., Slovakia or Hungary).
I think many routes to CE-Europe could succeed, however in none of the countries mentioned there are FR bases as yet (and W-pattern is rare at FR). Ryanair enthusiasts (quite a few here) discussing the issue favour destinations like Berlin and diverse in Southern Europe.
8th Sep 2008, 12:28
Eu01 "for me it's one more illustration of how ill-prepared the route planning at Ryanair is. Please correct me, if I'm wrong"
Eu01...your right...Having just loaded 7 x Wchr and 1 x assistance dog with its own EU pet passport, plus 2 x Blind and several special needs this morning...Mad Mick has got it wrong on this one
If they are to attract the Pilgrims on the LDE route, then they will have to remove the "only 4 PRM " from their terms and conditions and charging £100 for their own oxygen... unless they want a court battle for discrimination against these peoples human rights !
As for 25 minute turn arounds and we don't use jet bridges....come on.
I think the corporate types in Dublin must have been seduced by the route assist... rather than looking at the actual pax profile on this route.
8th Sep 2008, 13:58
RYANAIR and LOURDES
they must be desparate to take this on.Looking in the local paper for Lourdes this weekend it says that their airport is giving FR a 75% discount on all charges.No doubt STN are also giving a huge discount as well as a start up route incentive. BUT how can this be correct.There have been charters 3 times a week March to November on this route since the new airport opened years ago.
For the last couple of years it is quite usual Mondays and Fridays to see TITAN or JET 2 and an occasional Air Med with loads of less able slowly loading up.
So this cant be considered a new route. Also why should these airports be charging full wack to the existing flights, and then giving back thousands to
FR in subsidies, is that legal ?:=:=
If the charterer of the existing flights only cancels a few flights because of the loss of his income to FR then both airports have truly shot themselves in the collective foot !
So either the clever man in Dublin is about to change his operations manual ,and his whole scheduling policy,or just maybe just between him and the airports they have got this wrong.
8th Sep 2008, 14:41
Just to note that Aer Arann have replaced Ryanair on the Cork Prestwick route.
Everyone probably knows this by now anyway, but it hasn't been mentioned.
Another small point; as has been proven over the past few weeks, SNN is a low cost airport, and FR is a low cost carrier. They are made for each other. If I want to avail of a low cost flight, I can drive to SNN and if I want to go to a business destination, I can go from ORK.
If the CAA caves into FR, then in a few short months ORK would be in the same boat as SNN, minus the US military flights.
8th Sep 2008, 15:04
Why get so hysterical about FR flying there once a week, on a Saturday?! It is a SKIING flight! The only likely wheelchair pax are those returning home after having taken a high altitude tumble!
8th Sep 2008, 16:11
The Skiing isnt that good either.
Bareges one hotel 3 star , bus to the ski slope every 30 mins.
Cauterets not much better, La Mongie , no good hotel, at all.
Thomson Hols used to fly 500 every weekend into LDE but due to lack of investment in the ski resorts gradually reduced their programme and then killed it off. Dan Air did quite well on the route , but BA pulled it.
£3,000 per flight subsidy is what is being mentioned.
cheaper than leaving it parked at STN
8th Sep 2008, 19:39
Budget alternative to TLS for Andorra (Pas de le Casa etc)??
8th Sep 2008, 19:50
It seems odd to me, to only do one flight a week.
But, this is the desperate realisation that FR find themselves in. They cannot afford to develop a route, because the losses are not covered by massive gains on other routes anymore.
A 75% DISCOUNT in previous years would have been excuse for multiple daily flights and lots of fanfare.
It's a losing game for FR I'm afraid. I believe we haven't seen the worst yet either. Their figures will be shocking this winter.
The game is over for their existing business model. The punters no longer have any money, and FR are no longer cheap.
And that's all they ever had. MOL had better think up a plan and quick.......
p.s. Tommyc2005: I thought people go skiing on other days other than Saturdays??? I thought that was the whole FR principle... open up options....
8th Sep 2008, 20:24
The game is over for their existing business model
It's a winter once weekly flight from Stanstead to Lourdes. Does it really warrant so much discussion?
8th Sep 2008, 20:28
Well, see my comment about 75% discounts.
In the old days, FR would have put a route on properly, i.e. multi weekly flights at least, if not daily... or multi daily.
Now, the case cannot be made, even with 75% DISCOUNTS.
Do you see a trend? I do.
The model is broke. FR can't lose money on a route now, as others cannot subsidise it's losses. Hence, once a week.......
There may be trouble ahead.......
Does it really warrant so much discussion?
Certainly, this route is not worth it as an individual phenomenon. But hey, stansdead has made some interesting remarks, like:
The model is broke. FR can't lose money on a route now, as others cannot subsidise it's losses. Hence, once a week.......
Now, what could be done to make Lourdes [or any similar destination] work?
They can fly once a week from London... because it's a big city.
They can fly once a week from Dublin... because there lives an active Catholic population (in case of LDE).
They can fly once a week from Madrid... because there lives (ditto).
They can fly daily from, let's say, HHN.
What? Why on Earth should HHN be better than STN or anything else? How could it succeed?
Well, here we go again:The game is over for their existing business model.Hence, the (old) business model has to be changed. What would be relatively simple and not even costly? As I said before, the creation of one centrally-located real hub WITH CONNECTING FLIGHTS. Not necesserily Hahn, but let's just follow this example:
Having such a central hub, FR could fly to LDE daily, because:
- Catholics from Milan and Rome could fly to Lourdes via HHN
- Catholics from Wroclaw and Gdansk coud fly to Lourdes via HHN
- Catholics from Budapest coud fly to Lourdes via HHN
- tourists from Scandinavia coud fly to Lourdes via HHN
- and so on, and so on.
Times are changing, some principles of the low-cost flying should be re-evaluated and changes made. To be competitive and get more passengers, to get better yields (same subsidies, if necessary, more paying passengers).
Forgive me Lourdes (and Catholics) for using you to colour this example. I claim there are still money to be made in the low-cost sector and even more potential, just there is a need to re-think the strategies. It concerns mostly FR as using some minor airports, give it a try.
From the news:THREATS allegedly made to passengers on a flight to Stansted led to an emergency response.
Police were called after reports that travellers had been threatened on a flight from Dublin to the Essex airport.
The Ryanair flight was met by police and security staff, who spoke to 18 passengers about the alleged incident.
Ryanair confirmed that the incident, on Saturday evening, had taken place.
But it's not the incident that prompted me to citing the news. "The Ryanair flight was met by police and security staff, who spoke to 18 passengers".
Just 18 passengers aboard this flight or they just choose 18 passengers to talk to. Was the load as bad as it seems?
9th Sep 2008, 07:32
What do they mean threats? A bomb scare? Or agressive cabin crew?
9th Sep 2008, 08:51
Most Catholics travel to Lourdes on Charter flights and pay rip off prices to tour operators to do so. Ryanair would be a lot cheaper but many pilgrims wouldn't like the idea of being left starnded at a so called Ryanair hub due to a missed connection or a last minute cancellation etc.
9th Sep 2008, 09:36
Yeah, pilgrims (and catholics in general) will just NOT tolerate delayed and cancelled flights.
Better stick to protestant destinations, Mr. O.
9th Sep 2008, 09:54
Tommy, almost all the passengers who travel to Lourdes go there to visit the shrine of the Virgin Mary. There will be many 'mobility challenged' people and their helpers travelling.
They are most certainly not interested in skiing!
9th Sep 2008, 10:17
Lourdes is a ghost town for most of the winter, and 95% of hotels are closed.
Winter is not pilgrimage season!
The STN-LDE route is not intended to cater for pilgrims :cool:
We have very few Roman Catholics here in Finland, so I can be 99.9% sure we'll never have direct flights to Lourdes. Nevertheless, I could be interested to fly there, with Ryanair too. In this regard, the idea of a central hub somewhere in Central Europe is obviously worth considering. It would require early morning flights to this hub and late evening returns [from/to TMP] with the connecting flights [to/from LDE] around mid-day. With some efforts the route planning could be tailored to achieve that goal, it doesn't seem very difficult. By allowing 2-3 hours for the flight change I could imagine over 99% of such connections would fully succeed. The core issue is elsewhere, though. In order to get not only those unbiased like myself :) but many other people from Finland to fly to Lourdes and to dozens of similar destinations via this Ryanair Central Hub (wherever it were created), the carrier would have to adjust the system. Namely, they would have to start selling tickets from the starting point until the final destination. There is no other way to tempt the "average" customers, none of my neighbours would accept two separate point to point tickets travelling anywhere (I've already tried to persuade them, no way).
Before FR would be able to sell any connecting flights, the carrier SHOULD START TAKING FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the passengers on those remaining 1% of connecting flights that wouldn't succeed (if the connection is lost regardless of the reason). And THIS is probably the most difficult issue here. Having to take some care. :hmm:
There is perhaps a solution. Ryanair could continue its usual business selling point to point tickets. And, to be more versatile / better fill the planes, they might consider selling those connecting flights in a totally different (higher) price range. And accepting the responsibility at least for those passengers. N'est-ce pas?
9th Sep 2008, 10:37
So if I'm reading this right, has anyone got any idea why "pilgrim flights" pay more than "ski flights" to use the airport?
A group of Dublin teenagers who fell ill on a flight home from England were rushed to hospital when their plane landed, turning a fun day trip into a horrid nightmare.
"It was a miracle that there were six doctors on the flight, and they said that it was safer to get the kids home."
The next comment of mine that will concern a minor detail rather than the main subject, sorry. I must confess. Being relatively well-off I do fly with Ryanair from time to time. Now, six doctors on a flight, that's something. Wow, I feel better, my self-esteem is more stable now. :ok:
chair 5 has no room
9th Sep 2008, 13:00
Because wheel chairs are heavier than skis. This has great effects on landing weights! :}
Cant wait to pay hundreds of pounds to ryanair to carry my skis. NOT!!!!!
9th Sep 2008, 14:41
From the Times Online
Ryanair pilot learns: You were fired – six weeks ago - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4188626.ece)
9th Sep 2008, 14:56
Yea, I was wondering about that exact point after I heard about this on the radio last sunday morning...!
Actually, couldn't ryanair somehow use the wheelchair wheels to their advantage thereby saving on tyres. And if they carried electric chairs they might not even need the use of a tug and would save on fuel in the taxi!
FR delay the opening of Edinburgh base blaming... Boeing
Tuesday, 9 September 2008
Ryanair said it had moved the start date for its new routes from September 23 to November 5 because Boeing was unable to deliver the two new planes Ryanair had bought to operate them (due to strike started last Saturday in Seattle).
Deputy chief executive Michael Cawley said passengers who had already booked for the six-week period would be refunded over the next seven days.
Sales not good enough, huh?
9th Sep 2008, 17:47
I thought they were parking planes!
9th Sep 2008, 17:58
They have 20 too much but have to wait for 2 new :ugh: Isn't it ironic
Exactly they are grounding aircraft in STN and DUB so why do they need to worry about boeing not delivering aircraft?
Surely it is just an excuse to get money/ aircraft out of boeing and are covering up they are having financial difficulties.
Ryanairs base is due to open in 2 weeks but they arent grounding any aircraft until the end of October, it could be true.
Let's hope it goes horrible wrong for Ryanair - I'm sure not many within the industry will shed a tear - and as for Nasty Oleary, god will judge him!
9th Sep 2008, 23:49
Let's hope it goes horrible wrong for Ryanair - I'm sure not many within the industry will shed a tear - and as for Nasty Oleary, god will judge him!
So, you hope for thousands of people to lose their jobs plus thousands more airport workers that would be similarly affected? Is that what YOUR GOD asks you to pray for?
9th Sep 2008, 23:56
If its written in the contract of financial penalties if aircraft are not delivered as per the schedule then why not claim? You don't take out travel insurance, subsequently break your camera and return home not to ask.
10th Sep 2008, 07:57
Obviously sales not good enough to lease in two aircraft to operate for 6 weeks...
although perhaps the exposure they get from critisising Boeing for this is worth more to them. they probably get some kind of PR benefit and compensation from Boeing which could be sizeable
10th Sep 2008, 08:18
Why all the fuss, routes get pushed back all the time because of aircraft delivery delays.. Look at Emirates and Etihad as recent examples.
If the aircraft isn't available the flights won't operate. Simple. Leasing in gets messy look at Flybe with the E195 delays, all sorts of different types brought in, hardly efficient but OK if someone else is picking up the bill (Embraer in this case I'm sure)
FR always said that aircraft capacity would be available in winter and lo, its winter when the flights start! No surprise there.
FR don't yet know when they will get the new aircraft because of the unresolved (still I think) IAM strike.
Ryanair has not given up the idea that it could develop a base at the Riga International Airport, David O’Brian Operations Director of Ryanair, said at the European Airport Development Conference yesterday.
In the next four to five years' time the airline could place five of its airplanes at the Riga Airport, but for this major investments are still needed.Ryanair expects Riga Airport to be cooperative similarly as it was in 2004 when the airport lowered its costs. Ryanair say that they constantly manage to cut down on their costs and that they see no reason why the airport could not do the same.
Last winter MOL said that development of a new base is a matter of cooperation with and the development of the airport. O'Leary noted that the airport should be developing at such a pace that it is able to meet Ryanair requirements on passenger turnover, and make it possible for the airline to launch its base here. According to him, opening a new hub at Riga Airport could prompt the airport's annual passenger turnover to 2.5-3 million, and the number of flights by about 20,000.
10th Sep 2008, 13:15
Apparently, a strike at Boeing means that aircraft are not available:- BBC NEWS | Scotland | Edinburgh, East and Fife | Ryanair cancels Edinburgh flights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7607633.stm)
Low-cost airline Ryanair has been forced to cancel flights from its new Edinburgh base for the next six weeks because of strike action at Boeing.
Ryanair said the strike meant US aircraft manufacturers Boeing was unable to deliver two 737 planes it purchased to operate on the new routes.
Ryanair said it now hoped to start flying from Edinburgh on 5 November.
There is a Ryanair thread.
10th Sep 2008, 14:40
FR delay the opening of Edinburgh base blaming... Boeing
According to the FR website, not all routes are affected. I was able to get flights from and to Hahn in October.
Ryanair routes affected by the postponement are:
FORCED CANCELATIONS UNTIL 5th NOVEMBER
10th Sep 2008, 15:43
If MOL needs 738s didn't Futura just park some?
Too many creature comforts in them probably :rolleyes:
10th Sep 2008, 16:29
FR flights from HHN to EDI are operated by a HHN based aircraft!
New start dates for EDI:
5th Nov: Billund, Bournemouth, Bratislava, Stockholm, Poznan, Berlin
6th November: Malaga, Wroclaw
8th November: Lodz
18th December: Krakow
23th December: Palma de Mallorca
Oil fell on Wednesday as slowing demand outweighed an unexpected OPEC crude production cut and a steep drop in U.S. inventories.
U.S. crude traded down $1.41 at $101.85 a barrel by 1537 GMT, after hitting fresh five-month lows. London Brent crude fell $1.67 to $98.67 after falling below $100 on Tuesday for the first time since April.
Right time to hedge for 2009 possibly?
Happy being NOT responsible myself, though :8
10th Sep 2008, 19:26
N14HKLet's hope it goes horrible wrong for Ryanair - I'm sure not many within the industry will shed a tear - and as for Nasty Oleary, god will judge him!
Oh dear, someone REALLY hates FR!
Thank you for not carrying if i lose my job Sir. I shall do the same when i will be given the opportunity to laugh at YOUR misfortune...
I suggest you get off your high horse and have a bit of consideration for other people's jobs within FR. You might hate MOL however it's not the girl's at the back fault.
Think twice before you act dears:ok:
An Aito operator is threatening to report Ryanair to competition authorities over plans to start flights to Lourdes in December.
John Tangney, director of Tangney Tours, claimed the no-frills carrier’s plans will mean fewer disabled people will be able to visit the shrine, famed for its healing powers.
He wants the Competition Commission to investigate the deal Ryanair has signed with Lourdes airport which he said makes it impossible for his charter-based operation to compete.
Tangney fears he will lose able-bodied customers to Ryanair because he will not be able to compete on price.
He has to pay for full service operations and extra airport help to cater for up to 20 wheelchair passengers per flight.
He said that could force him to cancel 20 of his 120 flights a year – meaning fewer seats would be available for disabled passengers. Ryanair has a limit of four wheelchair users per flight
Tangney claimed Ryanair had negotiated a 75%, or £1,500, per flight discount on airport charges that would allow it to undercut his fares.
Quoted from: ttglive.com
Anyway, one has to expect some real problems with passengers who "don't understand" that Lourdes is a "ski destination" and will be coming on wheelchairs, certainly more than four per flight...
11th Sep 2008, 18:16
EDI routes were really strong actually. Very good loads and yields I believe. It is a case of there is no slack in the current sched. for spare a/c hanging about....hence the mega delays currently being seen across the network on certain days.
RYR are a low cost airline....they might have leased last year, but going into winter when your looking at just breaking even, its not economically sound to spend $$ on leasing. Its a shame for passengers, and all the staff involved....but thats the effect strikes have on any company.
11th Sep 2008, 20:18
Things can't be too bad at their other bases if they couldn't find aircraft to allocate to EDI.
12th Sep 2008, 11:50
Ryanair, Europe’s leading low fares airline, today (12th September 2008), in response to their request, offered the CAA the use of one of its aircraft for the next two weeks in order to secure the return of stranded holidaymakers abandoned by the closure of bankrupt airline XL Airways. Ryanair is using one of its spare 737-800 aircraft to help the authorities in the UK and Ireland provide services for outgoing and returning passengers who have booked with the now defunct airline.
Above from Ryanair website
12th Sep 2008, 11:55
Ryanair couldn't have put that plane in EDI?
Instead they :mad: up the travel arrangements of so many passengers by delaying the base start. What management are running this company? Their decisions are crazy!
The opening of a new Reus base will be postponed too.
The deferral of the [Reus base] opening from its original date of the 1st October to a new date of 5th November is as a result of the strike by Boeing employees in Seattle which has resulted in the indefinite delay of the shipment of new aircraft to Ryanair.
Announcing the postponement today, Ryanair’s Deputy Chief Executive, Michael Cawley, said:
“We sincerely regret the postponement of the opening of our Reus base but unfortunately the two new aircraft, which we had reserved for this purpose are now indefinitely delayed due to a strike by Boeing employees. However, we are pleased to confirm that due to the reduction in the number of aircraft flying at our other bases during the winter period, we will be able to secure two further aircraft to facilitate the new opening date of 5th November for these exciting new routes from Reus.
We sincerely apologise to all our passengers for the inconvenience caused by this change in our plans but I hope they understand that it is due to circumstances over which we have no control and we look forward to seeing them on board at our new scheduled opening date of 5th November .”Separately FR announced it was postponing the location of a seventh aircraft at its Bergamo base in Italy by four weeks.
12th Sep 2008, 19:31
If FR are able to find an a/c in a couple of hrs to fly XL passengers, for the next TWO WEEKS does anyone really believe that the boeing strike is why FR have delayed the opening of their EDI,Reus bases & delayed the arrival of a seventh a/c in bergamo?
12th Sep 2008, 19:53
Is this aircraft not the standby (spare) aircraft incase one of there own planes goes tech.???
That would make more sence to me!
12th Sep 2008, 20:37
Any information about what flights that Ryanair will operate on the XL routes available?
12th Sep 2008, 21:58
Several recent posts merged here: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/342760-ryanair-tail-strike-dublin-sept-11-a.html
15th Sep 2008, 19:28
Ryanair must be well pleased with these :-
Skavsta - 152 pax per flight - 80%
Pisa - 161 pax per flight - 85%
Gdansk - 157 pax per flight - 83%
Poitiers - 159 pax per flight - 84%
Biarritz - 153 pax per flight - 81%
Dinard - 151 pax per flight - 80%
Billund - 144 pax per flight - 76%
Torp - 128 pax per flight - 68%
Bydgoszcz - 169 pax per flight - 90%
Rzeszow - 166 pax per flight - 88%
Trapani - 162 pax per flight - 85%
Perpignan - 159 pax per flight - 84%
Oporto - 162 pax per flight - 86%
Olbia - 152 pax per flight - 80%
Forli - 151 pax per flight - 80%
Shannon - 160 pax per flight - 85%
Reus - 160 pax per flight - 85%
Trieste - 158 pax per flight - 82%
Bratislava cannot tell because of Sky Europe
Marseille cannot tell because of BMI Baby
Dublin cannot tell because of Aer Lingus
Source - CAA
16th Sep 2008, 10:41
Looking through the XL rescue flights Ryanair have carried out some flights already, with a few more planned over the next few days.
15-Sep FR8511 LPA/LGW 12.40/16.40
16-Sep FR8531 PMI/LGW 08.25/10.50
16-Sep FR8533 TFS/MAN 21.15/01.35
17-Sep FR8535 FUE/LGW 09.55/13.55
17-Sep FR8537 FUE/LGW 21.10/01.10
18-Sep FR8511 ACE/LGW 10.05/14.00
18-Sep FR8513 ACE/LGW 21.05/01.00
16th Sep 2008, 13:10
First time a Ryanair aircraft ever at ACE?
16th Sep 2008, 14:22
Great figures for BHX and it is just the second month of the FR-Base :ok: Hope that more comes soon.
16th Sep 2008, 15:05
Anybody know how the LDY seats are selling from BHX
16th Sep 2008, 16:48
Those BHX figures - does anyone know whether they represent passengers carried or simply the Ryanair/easyJet method of quoting numbers of seats sold:}? Considering some of the fares which Ryanair charges, I wouldn't be surprised if its no-show figures are relatively high.
16th Sep 2008, 17:06
They are CAA figures so they should be numbers through the door
and not seats sold.
anna aero did some early analysis of the bhx fares for July and if the
method they used was accurate then it was not bad reading.
Dinard and Torp were poor and I actually monitored the August
fares on these routes and they were cheap even fairly last minute.
However they said Billund was performing well and passenger wise
it is but whenever I looked fares were cheap.
anna aero also said stated the Polish routes were performing well and
whenever I checked the Spanish fares plus Pisa they were also
quite high. I suppose January will be the acid test once everybody
is broke after New Year!
However for the second full month of based operations the figures
17th Sep 2008, 11:11
I see the staff in Kerry had a great workout this morning with the Hahn. So how many staff does it take to move a 737 :ooh:?
18th Sep 2008, 22:23
5Q, tell us more, don't tangle it like that !!
The Real Slim Shady
18th Sep 2008, 22:51
Just 1: Trimmers.
19th Sep 2008, 09:22
In effect its not the amount of seats sold that
counts - its the revenue from all the seats that have
been sold which is the important fact to the
No-shows do not 'cost' the airline.
Do Ryanair have standby passengers?
If the airline is happy with the early results (On BHX
Ops ) it bears well for the future.
The Real Slim Shady
19th Sep 2008, 11:59
Only standby pax we have are staff.
19th Sep 2008, 13:59
No-shows are the best PAX. The airline has no charges to pass on to taxman or airport. In Winter the airline depends on them for a profit as the margins on those who fly is low.
It was interesting when I followed the rise and fall of Silverjet that the CAA data showed a lot more PAX then the airlines reported load factor. I guess RYA never flys extras for free!
The stockmarket only sees the load factor for seats sold not how full the planes are in the air. selling seats that are not used are good for share price.
The replacement of Airport dep tax with a per plane tax may change things. The marinal cost of empty seats will drop and RYA taxes and charges will change.
19th Sep 2008, 20:42
Pax can be put on standby at the airport, they can buy this fare at the local ticket desk on the day of departure. Maximum amount 15 people. Theres an order in which standbys must be given seats, starting with disrupted pax and ending with staff standby.
Both flights from BGY to CIA on Monday 22nd are sold out. FR must be profiteering from Alitalia's situation. I think they are ready to stand in for AZ if it stopped flying, but how fast and to what extent?
20th Sep 2008, 18:52
FR said that they will park 20 aircrafts this winter. If AZ disappears (what I don't believe when I see the italian government) FR maybe use these aircrafts for the italian market. But notice that AZ had nearly 2 million passengers in this summer each month with a fleet of over 140 aircrafts (+30 aircrafts Alitalia Express). A huge market where FR can participate but only a little bit.
20th Sep 2008, 19:58
Should Alitalia go, and Ryanair were able to put the 20 "grounded" aircraft into service they would probably carry 700,000 in a month using these aircraft based on Ryanair's average load factor and they would probably fill empty seats on existing flights in and out of Italy. Ryanair could probab;y carry an extra 1 million passengers a month.
If Alitalia only carries 2 million a month using 140 aircraft, including long haul flights, it show how poor the Italian carrier' load factors are! On that basis I think very few passsengers will miss them.
20th Sep 2008, 20:23
AZ July: 1.86m -21.9% LF: 75.3% (-4.3 p.p)
But for sure EZY and also LH and AF/KL are waiting, too.
21st Sep 2008, 13:19
But for sure EZY and also LH and AF/KL are waiting, too.
But none of the above will offer 1 euro flights with no tax !
if AZ do go under, watch FR move from BGY to MXP or
set up in MXP as well as BGY :ok:
if AZ do go under, watch FR move from BGY to MXP or set up in MXP as well as BGY :ok:
Not so fast, gentlemen! One of Ryanair's principal rules has obviously been: no deal - no flights and certainly no base. Last year FR already wanted to invest some money and to establish a base at MXP expecting ''greater efficiency and lower prices'', this offer was turned down by the airport authority. Of course the environment has changed since, but for the reaction on part of SEA (running both Malpensa and Linate ) we will have to wait and it won't necessary be much different. Moreover, Ryanair will be reluctant to move some operations from CIA to FCO (every road leads to Rome) and I don't think it will be granted more slots in Ciampino even now.
21st Sep 2008, 15:59
You are right, But as you say things have change at MXP
or should I say may change at MXP.
I dont see FR wanting to move from CIA to FCO as CIA is closer
to the City or Rome and FR get a very good deal at CIA and dont
need anything FCO have to offer, like connections to longhaul
however one thing is for sure, If AZ goes under we will see alot
of domestic Italian routes announced from many Italian Airports.
Once again very bad press around Ryanair, this time in Sweden (it could concern any traveller from Northern countries, though). FR has been flying to Scandinavia for so many years, but still pretends to be unaware of the severe glitch in its booking system. If your name is Andersson, it will be accepted. But what about Ulrika Örtegren-Kärjenmäki for example? No way. First, it's too long and will be truncated. Even worse, the Scandinavian characters (like ä, å, ö) will NOT be accepted... or they will, but the barcode boarding cards will not work.
And that happens. Last week, Mrs. Örtegren-Kärjenmäki has been stopped for the first time in Stockholm Skavsta, but they instantly knew how to handle this (of course). Well, at STN they didn't. The flight departed without the passenger and her daughter, they had to book a hotel room and... would you believe? They had to buy new expensive tickets next day. The Swedish press has asked Ryanair's European communications director how such things could ever happen. - We deeply regret that Mrs Örtegren-Kärjenmäki was not allowed to pass through security checks, answered Daniel de Carvalho asking Mrs. Örtgren-Kärjenmäki to contact the customer service, but he wasn't able to confirm that she would get back the money she had to spend for new plane tickets and an extra hotel night.
You might imagine the reader's reactions. Does FR really need such publicity? Does this kind of hostile attitude really pay? And an other bad feature of FR booking software. I never use Scandinavian letters (to avoid the problem), but many customers are constantly frustrated also here in Finland, this issue should have been addressed years ago.
Again and again. This one will start on Wednesday, presumably. With the crude oil prices rallying (spiked more than $25 a barrel today) it's a dangerous game. There are better ways to fill the planes... well, not being a grumbler, I'll stop here.
i'm delighted..going to get some very cheap seats for my week off in November... :D
gonna go city hopping(or whichever "airport 50 miles from the city" hopping). Don't care though. Hotels are cheap too at the moment. Win win for the consumer imo.
23rd Sep 2008, 07:43
News - 2008-09-23 Ryanair (http://www.theairdb.com/news/2008-09-23-ryanair.html)
23rd Sep 2008, 09:38
Ryanair have announced their latest 2 day giveaway sale, only problem is getting onto the website, has anyone else tried ?
23rd Sep 2008, 10:52
I have no problem accessing the website!!
23rd Sep 2008, 11:49
Perhaps I better re phrase that, has anyone tried to book anything ? Home page is fine but as soon as you ask it to start booking it fails.
23rd Sep 2008, 12:25
Just booked day return PIK - BOH. £38 all in - no hassle with website.
23rd Sep 2008, 15:01
I booked BOH -EDI for 6th Nov - Day return for 0.2p all in now thats good.
23rd Sep 2008, 17:34
Was checking the Ryanair website for seat available from Derry and found this, don't if it new routes from derry or a mistake.
i'm delighted..going to get some very cheap seats for my week off in November...I booked BOH -EDI for 6th Nov - Day return for 0.2p all in now thats good.I guess you both sympathize with Ryanair? If so, I wouldn't be that happy about it. It is a very slippery way. And it uncovers how difficult is to get passengers flying right now. Actually, even the finance boss Howard Miller admits it: “We're heading into recession and people are becoming much more price sensitive. We are already seeing signs of this ourselves despite a reduction in capacity." But, not surprisingly, he adds: “People are more price sensitive and carriers will struggle to fill their seats unless they reduce fares." That means, Ryanair's strategy will not change. And it bothers me. Just fares? It's not the whole truth.
Why is is so difficult to accept a change in the style of thinking? No-one can win the battle using constantly just one and the same weapon (prices), neglecting everything else. How many more passengers one can get by lowering the fares from 5 euro/pounds to one cent/penny? And what is the profit from having more and more those guys who just hunt for free flights? It is a good "catch" for marketing, but again, not as the only solution.
If a traveller living in, say, Salzburg, wants to visit Paris, he wants to get there and only THERE. Checking different offers, possibly looking at FR as well? Sure. But as long as Ryanair can offer him flights to Dublin or Stansted for 1 cent, but not anywhere near Paris - it will not influence him, it doesn't matter. He will spend 200 or 300 euros and will fly with a legacy carrier to get to HIS destination, not to one of the two Ryanair wants him to go. The sole worst self-implemented limitation FR has is nothing else than the famous point-to-point system without any options. Having so many destinations in its network FR could become a real challenger for many legacy carriers (having some connecting flights as an addition to the point-to-point majority of flights), especially with its true low-cost base... Nope, it's better to ground planes and sell flights for nothing. :ugh:
23rd Sep 2008, 18:25
This is to get as many people looking at the website,
Its not just about bookings, far from it.
Its designed to get people talking and looking, If a friend tells a friend they tell more and more friends,
Not all will be able to travel where they want to go, however this gets the word out on NEW routes, there are many people out there that dont know that FR fly to, eg, PMI, TFS, FUE, IBZ and MAD. and also all the SKI flights.
when people who dont normaly book many mini breakes and holidays see the normal priced flights Ryanair offer they are still more likely to book a Ryanair flight as many flights, dates and destinations cost alot less than people think, even without the 1p flights
So to sum it up - it gets people looking at what FR have to offer.
Right, it's an old good trick, a "catchy" one. But alongside, FR should try also other marketing variations to get the broader spectrum of passengers. The need to ground more and more planes can be interpreted as a kind of defeat.
23rd Sep 2008, 18:37
I don't think it will be granted more slots in Ciampino even now.
So do the EU slot allocation rules not apply in Italy then - rather like the State Aid rules? :eek:
the EU slot allocation rules
It's not about the slot application rules. Due to the intended shut down of Ciampino (in a few years) it's very difficult to introduce any new flights there.
23rd Sep 2008, 19:02
Due to the intended shut down of Ciampino
Source? I thought the intention was to keep 3 airports serving Rome. Ciampino, fiumicino and viterbo.
The source? If you understand Italian (I do comprehend a bit), look here (http://www.ansa.it/infrastrutturetrasporti/notizie/fdg/200809101805324343/200809101805324343.html). The main sense: A new civil airport in Viterbo will replace the Ciampino airport in 2011 and within the next 15 years will serve 12 million passengers a year. When the new airport in Viterbo opens it will intercept all the current 5 million passengers from Ciampino, the latter will be used only for the institutional and private flights.
Torygraph: Ryanair plots transatlantic price war (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/3067643/Ryanair-plots-transatlantic-price-war.html)
Ryanair is preparing to trigger a transatlantic fares war as it seeks to cash in on the crisis engulfing the aviation industry.
Low cost flights could be run from Stansted, Prestwick and Birmingham to New York under the airline's plans. They would be operated by a new company, which Ryanair would set up purely to take on the established airlines on the route.
Senior executives at Ryanair first floated the idea of entering the transatlantic market more than a year ago. But at the time it appeared to be little more than a pipe dream. But soaring fuel prices over the past 12 months and more than two dozen airline failures have dramatically changed the landscape making it far easier for Ryanair to enter the market.
With the industry bracing itself for a number of airline mergers, Ryanair now believes it will be harder for the European Union to block its bid for Aer Lingus, the Irish national flag carrier. "I think the whole European agenda has changed," said Howard Millar, Ryanair's deputy chief executive. He added that should the bid be approved the new carrier would use some of the 15 long-haul planes Aer Lingus has on order for the new service.
In addition the Ryanair offshoot is ready to hold talks with leasing companies over the possibility of acquiring some new Boeing 787 dreamliners. This has become possible because of the slump in the airline industry, which is expected to bring down the cost of leasing aircraft.
Even though it could take a few years before the new carrier begins operating, it is now clear that the strategy is at an advanced stage, with Ryanair talking about the type of fuel-efficient aircraft it would need.
Underpinning the company's plans is the belief that other weak carriers will go to the wall over the next few months. "This industry is in a rapid period of change. Smaller carriers will not survive as Europe moves towards recession," Mr Millar said, adding that Ryanair planned fare cuts this winter to "help a few carriers on their way" to failure.
In the short term, Ryanair expects to offer passengers the chance to make mobile phones on some of its aircraft from next month.
The company also plans axeing some of its 15 French routes during the winter, but Mr Millar declined to say which services were at risk.
In the middle of another round of free flights sale I can read on a Finnish forum:
" - The flight from Tampere to Milan was fully booked, we didn't get any tickets!".
" - Oh really? Recently we didn't have any problems getting the cheap tickets. Return flights with Ryanair costed us just 250€ pp. :rolleyes:. But you know what? Half-way to Milan they run out of ALL alcohol beverages aboard. How could it happen?"
Don't know where to put some planes?
The Real Slim Shady
24th Sep 2008, 19:36
It is well known that the Finns will empty the aircraft of alcohol ASAP.
I used to work for Air France: we would typically empty the bar for the southbound and northbound flight on the HEL - CDG sector!!
There isn't a company in the world that can deal with the Finns' predilection to alcohol.
...but it means a good business for the airline that SELLS these drinks.:ok:
In that context, what is the reason that Finland has so low penetration of lcc's so far (few routes, one destination)? Are you Finns that much devoted to Finnair or something? Nevertheless, looking at some FR results it's hard to justify such an explanation. The Finnish routes are on top of Bremen and HHN statistics, excellent loads from BGY... no development, though.
25th Sep 2008, 08:58
New route: Shannon - Newcastle
Restart: Shannon - Hahn
SNN-NCL on Friday and Sunday evenings.
Almost the exact same timetable as Jet2's ORK-NCL service.
Could they be any more predictable :rolleyes:
25th Sep 2008, 10:11
You would have to wonder about putting an extra plane into shannon (it's 6th) considering it is according to them, one of only 2 bases which doesnt make a profit.
Surely they could deploy this aircraft more profitablly elsewhere. TMP, BGY, TSF...anywhere
25th Sep 2008, 10:17
RTÉ Business: Ryanair gives and takes on Shannon routes (http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0925/ryanair.html)
The new routes will start in November. Ryanair also said the placing of a new plane will result in more weekly departures to destinations like Bristol, Edinburgh and Paris.
However, the airline is scrapping its Shannon-East Midland route and it also reducing capacity on the Luton route from October 31 to facilitate the two new services.
I am shocked that they are scrapping East Midlands though. Sure the route has been under performing, but partly because of the ORK-EMA service which will soon be history.
Also reducing Luton will increase fares to London as Ryanair have a monopoly on the Shannon to London market :suspect:
Between ORK and SNN, they were carrying over 12,000 pax per month between Munster and EMA. Even if the yields were low, that's an awfully big number to drop.
25th Sep 2008, 12:59
Lets hope they announce other 'new' routes in the future from SNN and not the on and off flight to HHN. What about Bremen twice a week?
Interesting both ORK and SNN to EMA are gone. Are they trying to put a bit of a squeeze on EMA by any chance?
25th Sep 2008, 14:27
Let's face it, FR's move to EMA was mainly aimed at obtaining from BHX a deal similar to those they have squeezed out of other airports; having achieved this it is now becoming obvious they are focusing their attention in the Midlands on BHX and the airlines operating from there.
In future I expect FR to only base sufficient aircraft at EMA to enable them to operate those routes which are in direct competition with WW and EZY.
I suspect that the management at EMA, when they soon start to see their pax figures decimated, will be wondering if it was such a good deal for them after all - and as a result of FR's ruthless tactics perhaps the BHX management may ultimately feel the same way too?
SNN-Hahn again! This route has already been axed twice and yet they are having another go at it! When will they realise that the route just doesn't work? Launching it yet again is only going to damage yields on their Kerry-Hahn service. Yields on that route are only just after recovering from the last attempt at SNN-Hahn.
SNN-Newcastle! They couldn't be more predictable if they tried. I don't think Jet2 on Cork-Newcastle will be the pushover Ryanair think they will be. Jet2 are much better known in the Newcastle area than Ryanair who currently operate just 2 routes from Newcastle. Also Jet2's smaller 733s will be much easier to fill during the winter than Ryanair's 189 seater 738s.
Surely they could deploy this aircraft more profitablly elsewhere. TMP, BGY, TSF...anywhereRyanair management seem happy to just keep throwing more money at their loss making Shannon base. Michael O'Leary has publically stated than Shannon is one of just two Ryanair bases across the entire Ryanair network that is lossmaking, yet they keep basing aircraft there!
25th Sep 2008, 19:58
Maybe something to do with keeping slots active, ready for longhaul
flights to use them in the future :oh:.
Maybe something to do with keeping slots active, ready for longhaul
flights to use them in the future
Slots, at Shannon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You obviously haven't been at Shannon any time recently. The place is like a ghost town at times. It is very rare that the airport ever operates to capacity!
25th Sep 2008, 21:27
just wondering what routes do the shannon based aircraft currently fly.
25th Sep 2008, 23:14
The extra Beauvais flights may well dilute the yield on the AF/City Jet flight from SNN to CDG.
There will be far too much capacity on Shannon Paris. My money is on City Jet blinking first.
26th Sep 2008, 00:05
The extra Beauvais flights may well dilute the yield on the AF/City Jet flight from SNN to CDG.
I disagree. The extra Shmeauvais flights will have minimal impact on the CDG route. I regularly see (talk to) the CDG and the BVA pax at Shannon airport. The CDG are for a big part simply connecting in CDG en route to another (exotic) destination. Leisure passengers travelling to CDG have enough dollars in the bank not to get distracted by Ryanair's twice daily free flights to an airport that's a smelly bus ride to the North of Paris.
26th Sep 2008, 08:01
Would Ryanair not try ski destinations from Shannon for the winter season and see how they work? Once or twice a week to Salzburg or Linz?
Ah the SNN bashing continues from the usual directions..
I'd have to agree with Charlie Roy. The difference in the two services to Paris is huge...on price alone the difference is massive...and aimed at two totally different markets.
1st Oct 2008, 07:41
News - 2008-10-01 Ryanair (http://www.theairdb.com/news/2008-10-01-ryanair.html)
1st Oct 2008, 08:27
4 routes from main airports to main airports.
It will be interesting to see the frequencies as these are usually key on internal routes.
1st Oct 2008, 10:06
It is likley that the new Spanish domestic routes are intended amongst other things to hasten the exit of Spanair from the market and at the same time further entrench RYR in Spain.
Spanair is already weakened by the disaster at Barajas and by the high speed rail link between Madrid and Barcelona which has decimated pax numbers on what was a lucrative city pair, not to mention economic recession in Spain.
I also expect to see more routes from Mad to Germany announced by RYR and on sale for next summer, to lessen Spanair's cash intake in the winter months. See Spanair route map for Germany compared to RYR today.
Smart tactics by RYR.
1st Oct 2008, 16:35
Ryanair, Europe’s leading lowest fares airline, today (1st October) announced that due to strike action at Boeing it has had to cancel 25 return flights to/from Birmingham. As a direct result of this strike, which has delayed the delivery of new aircraft, Ryanair cannot now operate flights on 21 routes to/from Birmingham between 24th and 28th October (please see below for routes affected) as originally scheduled.
Passengers who were due to travel on these cancelled services will receive a full refund from Ryanair.
Not as bad as Edinburgh but still.....
1st Oct 2008, 17:54
Same in NRN: 20 routes from 27th to 29th October are canceled
"Ryanair, Europe’s leading low fares airline, today (1st October) announced that due to strike action at Boeing it has had to postpone the operation of 11 new routes from Dusseldorf (Weeze). As a direct result of this strike, which has delayed the delivery of new aircraft, Ryanair has had to cancel 20 return services to/from Dusseldorf (Weeze) which were due to operate on the 27th, 28th and 29th October (please see below for routes affected).
Passengers who were due to travel on these cancelled services will receive a full refund from Ryanair."
Düsseldorf To/ From
27 Oct 08
27 Oct 08
27, 28, 29 Oct 08
27, 29 Oct 08
27, 29 Oct 08
27, 28,29 Oct 08
27, 28, 29 Oct 08
27, 29 Oct 08
28 Oct 08
28 Oct 08
28 Oct 08
2nd Oct 2008, 11:38
Ryanair was last night stunned to hear a Spanish court backed an online travel agent against its policy of only accepting flight bookings from its own website. Yesterday, a court in Madrid sided with Spanish online travel website Rumbo, who in August applied for an injunction to prevent the low-cost carrier from going ahead with its plans to cancel flight bookings made through third-party websites.
Full story on Belfast Telegraph website.
Ryanair stunned by Spanish court decision - Business News, Business - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/ryanair-stunned-by-spanish-court-decision-13989446.html)
3rd Oct 2008, 16:25
I can understand why Ryanair wants to fly from Madrid to both Santiago and Palma.
The routes from Madrid to Alicante and Valencia can both be done by train in 3h30. In the past, when he's tried doing this kind of route, he's had to stop flying a few months later - presumably because the railway company can undercut on price and beat him on frequency without losing money.
Yes Ryanair have bases at VLC and ALC which makes it easier, but is Spanair-bashing really sufficient reason to fly MAD-VLC and MAD-ALC given that Ryanair will lose a lot of money in doing so ?
3rd Oct 2008, 20:06
I think that the opportunity on MAD VLC & ALC is good. IB has a high frequency and not all of their traffic is transfer traffic.
Ryanair see routes like this one where a high fare national carrier operates as a honey pot with an opportunity to undercut the incumbent and still get a reasonable return.
In the case of ALC the timings are not really convenient for day tripping business traveller, so this tells me that MAD would not give them a knock down deal on slots on the route so perhaps they were offered a low price on off peak slots???
In the past, when he's tried doing this kind of route, he's had to stop flying a few months later
What are these routes that he had to stop like this one? Dublin Shannon is hardly a good comparison? London/Blackpool is hardly another good example as it was a new market? Alicante Madrid is well established with high volume.
Interesting comments nonetheless davidjohnson6
3rd Oct 2008, 22:46
In my humble opinion...
The example I'm thinking of in particular was Stansted - Brussels Charleroi. While Stansted is not central London and so can pick up customers from places like Cambridge and the general surrounding area, the Eurostar has a large chunk of the London-Brussels market. Ryanair was probably a bit cheaper but with 10 trains per day taking under 2h30 to a city centre it would be difficult to compete. The air route was started in June 2007 but has already been cancelled.
Easyjet used to fly Paris-Marseille - potentially a very good route with lots of business travellers, but not so great when the TGV runs in about 3h30. A route like Lille-Marseille takes about 4h45 by train so is probably long enough for Ryanair to be able to compete.
Ryanair doesn't offer easily changeable tickets and its systems don't integrate well to those used by business travel agents - making it really rather business unfriendly. The airline thus seems to be aiming at the leisure component of the market.
Because MAD is a large airport I doubt they offered Ryanair very cheap fees. Further, because it's a large airport it suffers from inevitable delays.
The only reasons I can see that MOL would choose these 2 routes are:
1) He's based too many planes / crew at VLC or ALC for local demand and needs to reposition to MAD each day.
2) As a spoiler against Spanair - neither Vueling nor Clickair fly these 2 routes. This can work if you're American Airlines putting a couple of planes between STN and NYC against Eos, but to really damage Spanair, MOL will need to deploy more planes - in the same way as Southwest is acting at Denver against Frontier.
4th Oct 2008, 19:48
Points taken and well made, but I still think that there is plenty of traffic for Ryanair to make a penny or two on this route.
Maybe he will up the frequency depending on how the competition react.
We will check in about this topic nearer to next summer and see what has materialised!
Almost stunned by the fact... well, FR did something very positive for its customers, of own accord! From today, a simple but useful travel rules change, very necessary indeed:
Avoid Smelly Internet Cafes - Check In at Home
RYANAIR EXTENDS WEB CHECK-IN SERVICE
Ryanair, Europe’s largest lowest fares airline, today (6th Oct) extended its online check-in service from 5 days to 14 days (before travel) to allow more passengers to check-in for both outbound and return legs of their journey before leaving home.
Ryanair’s extended check-in will allow most passengers avoid the inconvenience of having to find a way to check-in online when they are abroad.
Speaking today, Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said:
“At Ryanair we are proud to be the number one European airline for customer care with the best punctuality, least lost bags and the fewest cancellations of any European airline. We continue to focus on the customer services passengers really want by delivering great service and the guarantee of Europe’s lowest fares and no fuel surcharge.
“From today passengers can check-in up to 14 days in advance of travel. This will reduce the inconvenience of having to use a computer and printer when abroad in order to check-in online and should help passengers avoid having to use smelly internet cafes”.Way to go! :D
6th Oct 2008, 22:22
Where did you source above statement. I cannot find it on their website and online check button still shows 5 days before travel?
Tks in advance
6th Oct 2008, 23:02
And yet again 1 million free flights.
Their yields must be terrible.
And yet again 1 million free flights.
Their yields must be terrible.
FR: Passenger volumes UP, load factors DOWN
EZY: Passenger volumes UP, load factors UP
(LF in September EZY 86.9%, FR 84%)
Above all, I think FR has to do a few things to improve its image among the passengers (the check-in service improvements - one step in the right direction, waiting for more). And once again. If the carrier wants to have better load factors and yields serving many minor airports with poor catchment areas, they must decide to introduce some connecting flights. There's no other way.
@<hidden> CorkEICK. my e-mailbox
7th Oct 2008, 13:39
Just read his comments in press, do his pilots feel the same?:confused:
Buster the Bear
7th Oct 2008, 13:52
So that is why he is parking up airframes this winter?
They will not use connecting flights, it simply does not fit in with the Ryanair business model. And once again, how many seats does EZY have?? Oh yeah, 33 less than FR....
7th Oct 2008, 17:06
Is it not 40? easy 149 seats and RYR 189.
Is it not 40? easy 149 seats and RYR 189. ..... thats comparing the EZY 737-700.
Its 33 seats when comparing the EZY A319 to the FR 737-800.
They will not use connecting flights, it simply does not fit in with the Ryanair business model.
What doesn't fit into what? Do you think any business should have a rigid model? What kind of fundamentalism do you represent here?
Right, at some stage this business model has probably been absolutely perfect, but in order to address the changing business environment every model requires constant changes either. And haven't you noticed how much the situation has changed in recent years? No matter how successful any model initially might be, if it is not flexible enough and unable to adjust to the different situation - it should simply be trashed or significantly reshaped.
If you say that it's perfect to give away flights for nothing still having to keep a significant share of planes grounded, I'll tell you it's a b:mad:t, nothing else, not a reasonable policy anyway. We know the business environment is extremely challenging at present, but the Ryanair's attitude didn't change at all, we hear the same old answer how to improve the strategy. Keep reducing costs, sell flights for nothing, earn on everything else. In a short-term perspective this policy can still be half-successful, keeping the carrier afloat and without any dramatic consequences, but in a long term it's just unsustainable. You want more passengers, you must serve them better, in a more friendly and more versatile way. That's why the customer relations should be improved, the flights diversity achieved.
Now selling "FREE" flights, how are they going to impress their passengers next year? Paying them to fly?
7th Oct 2008, 19:06
The facts on Ryanair revenues and costs are in the public domain. Check out their investor relations material.
Here you will see that actually the average revenue per passenger is low, but nevertheless and very importantly revenue is significantly higher than their costs per passenger. Ancillary revenue is also very important.
Certainly some flights are given away, but some too are sold at (very) high prices. The undeniable net result is still a very profitable airline. So the free flight debate is moot, what really matters is the total revenue and the total cost. If individual routes don't work they get chopped.
Yes the data in the pdf is several months old, but you will only have to wait until the first week of November to see the Summer figures (to Sep 30)
I for one will bet that the November report will show the airline is still in the black, and that the company will say that things were not quite as bad as expected because of the heroic measures that were taken through the summer.... but that the winter will be very tough... so no time to be complacent (and cancel unpaid leave for example).
And as for the winter, the airline is now several aircraft light of plan because of the Boeing strike, hence improved utilisation (than plan) and hence lower unit costs for the fleet that is in service.. I wonder too what compensation Boeing will pay...(more heroics)
In the end the Ryanair model works, although I'd be the first to agree that I dont understand why on some routes...
The industry needs successful business - RYR consistently demonstrates its credentials in that regard - free flights included.
Flitefone, FR still is one of the most profitable airlines in the business, no doubt about it. The free flights are a great marketing inducement and as such are necessary as well. Indeed, FR is not losing money so far.
What I can see, it's their unwillingness to use other marketing tools than just low price and the important limitation resulting from the unsatisfactory (too one-sided) offer at minor airports. Some of these routes are getting chopped - but with a bit different approach these could be very prosperous too (if a point-to-point majority of flights were carefully complemented by some connecting flights). I know, MOL doesn't want to bother with any frills, but the market is pretty saturated nowadays and a "softer" approach might help. It's not a costly solution.
7th Oct 2008, 21:16
eu01 I have to say I agree with you whole heartedly when you say:
their unwillingness to use other marketing tools than just low price
Ryanair need to build a brand, one that people actually want to use rather than one that is so cheap that they choose it, a brand that is perceived as fun and innovative. MOL is truly missing a trick here. Free flights are a great marketing tool, but people dont usually place too high a value on something that they get for nothing, and consequently the perception of the brand.
Southwest through their people make flying fun, and people would in the USA see the airline as a carrier of choice and it is not seen as Ryanair is here, ie cheap and nasty.
Just my thoughts on the subject... One or 2 big brand building initiatives could turn this around. But they need to employ someone with expertise in this area, not simply rely on sales managers to create spin around something going on to gain publicity.
I believe that easyjet is seen as a good brand, it has moved up the ladder in terms of brand positioning. It's use of key airports and suitability to business travellers have also helped.
7th Oct 2008, 22:34
I know there's all the stuff about middle-of-nowhere airports being so desperate for passengers that they'll charge minimal fees to airlines. Further because the airports are largely deserted there's no congestion to worry about - so aircraft turnaround time can be very quick.
I think MOL has realised that he needs to start flying to real places. Madrid is now a chunky base - albeit because there aren't any other suitable airports for miles around. Almost all the other bases are near big urban centres. He's now flying to places like Prague and Budapest.
Even SouthWest are flying to big cities - and land for airports in the US is at less of a premium than in much of Europe.
All the airports in Europe are now wise to Ryanair's penny-pinching tactics - giving him a fantastic deal for 2 years in the hope of significantly raising charges afterwards doesn't work. Further, Ryanair have got a load more 738s to deploy - the only real option IMHO is to increase flying to airports not too far from big cities. The Stansted-Balaton route doesn't seem great over the winter !
I think MOL has realised that he needs to start flying to real places.Let's notice that Ryanair's bird was actually seen at Helsinki-Vantaa yesterday. But... only due to fog in RIX. :8
I'm not sure if big airports are always an option to consider. Sometimes it's a must, when there is no alternative solution (like SXF; for FR it is a good destination, why not a future base, where the carrier has been able to make some money apparently). Sometimes a good deal decides (like in MAD, whereas the new big Don Quichote/Madrid South in Ciudad Real seems to have lost the battle). Sometimes flying to big ones it is not really necessary (would it make sense to fly to LHR having the other three viable airports?). Serving smaller centers does have some advantages too - less competition at least. How to give these pax more places to fly? That's a bit more difficult. If these connecting flights are not considered, what else?
9th Oct 2008, 06:44
I've been away and have only just seen the posts about new routes from Madrid.
I am familiar with the Madrid-Alicante route and have used it a fair number of times over the years. I have noticed, however, that Iberia has raised its fares on this route quite a lot in the last year or so with the lowest option ("Web fare") becoming relatively expensive. Spanair fares when I last looked were similar except for a few flights at unpopular times.
The fast Renfe line will be completed to Valencia before Alicante and this will obviously have some impact on the airlines.
P.S. Does anyone know when the check-in machines at STN are coming into use? A good move by Ryanair, I think.
9th Oct 2008, 15:32
RYR share price showing signs of weakness when in fact it should be going the other way in view of the price of oil dropping substantially - any ideas why?
9th Oct 2008, 15:38
A few examples of why: Banks/economies in melt down, less money available for loans to buy/refurbish that second some abroad, people perhaps less willing to part with cash to pay for weekends away in Carcassonokgraditz.... all adds up to uncertainty about future passenger numbers all adds up uncertainty about how much Ryanair will make in profit in the future, means uncertainty about the future share, means uncertainty about any dividends all leading to a weak share price, etc etc etc.....
... or Herc708 more neatly put it "the market"
9th Oct 2008, 16:00
They have hedged most of their current fuel use at around $125/barrel so they are not yet saving. After Christmas they can get it at the cheaper rate if nothing changes.
I agree 'the market' is the reason - in that stock markets are not operating in any sort of rational manner at the moment. If you were to aquire Ryanair today at it's closing share value of €2.00, ignore any potential future income, shut it down, pay all outstanding liabilities it has and then sell all it's current owned aircraft at approx. €28/29million each you would make a slight profit! That's not taking any other sources of income from it's sale into account.
We've just discussed if Ryanair is more prone to fly to "real places" nowadays. Well indeed, some moves are taken.
Jydske Vestkysten (Denmark) citing Borsen writes today (here a rough translation of mine):
"Ryanair is planning flights from Copenhagen Airport in Kastrup within the next year".
The Danish aviation market will soon be challenged by another player in Kastrup. Europe's largest low-cost carrier Ryanair is planning flights from Copenhagen Airport within six to 12 months, thus intensifying the competition.
The opening of the facilities at the new low-cost terminal, Swift, makes the Danish capital an attracttive destination for the company, and although the terminal will not open before 2010, Ryanair want to introduce flights from Copenhagen already in 2009.
- We are very interested in the Danish market, and Copenhagen is a good and attractive market for Ryanair. We will grow by 10 million passengers within the next 12 months, and I hope that between 500,000 and one million of that passenger growth will come from Scandinavia, says Michael Cawley, vice Adm. Director and Operations Manager of Ryanair.
So yes, it's the next "real" airport closely monitored by FR.
What is the Swift terminal? Here some more information (http://www.investindenmark.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=20453) concerning this new low-cost terminal (or directly from the CPH site (http://www.cph.dk/CPH/UK/Newsroom/News/2008/cph+swift.htm)).
10th Oct 2008, 09:31
That will be great news if they do expand into Copenhagen, hopefully they would fly to EMA, seeing as Sterling is dropping the route.
11th Oct 2008, 16:34
From Daily Mail either Wed or Thursday.
Ryanair is planing to launch a discount transatlantic airline offering fares as low as £10 a trip.
Boss Michael O Leary disclosed his plan yesterday as he said the credit crunch and passengers trading down was good for business.
He delivered an upbeat forecast for his company at the London Chamber of Commerce.
He said he may create sister company to launch longhaul, low-cost airline,
if a wave of bankruptcies mean more cheap aircraft become available next year.
The budget airlines chief executive said "The only time to set up an airline is when they are parking planes in the desert. We are not very far from that at the moment.
The new carrier is expected to fly from Stansted and Prestwick to a number of U.S. airports and could be operating within 2 and a half years.
Tickets may cost as little as £10 , but passengers will face additional costs such as for inflight meals.
He said the economic outlook was "great" as the general public "will never stop" flying. End quote.
Good for you Michael and wish you every success.:D:D:D
11th Oct 2008, 16:40
£10 a trip.............
Economically Impossible, do the Math!
Like his free flights, ALL loaded up to the hilt by the time you come to pay the final amount. We'll see eh!
11th Oct 2008, 16:53
OLD! Not true either apparently.
11th Oct 2008, 16:58
11th Oct 2008, 17:04
Great, image sitting sandwiched up next to a fresh smelling ryanair passenger for 8 hours, seat fixed upright with a coin slot for the in flight movie.
All in the safety of a broken English fresh cadet navigating you across the atlantic!
Watch out Branson!
Skipness One Echo
11th Oct 2008, 17:07
Morons with unsustainable business models got us into this mess ( banks ). What makes you think that this business model is any more sensible. I mean you'd have to be really desperate to use Pikey Air across the pond !!! I'm hardly a millionaire and even I find economy to the US to be a pretty fair deal all in as things are !
11th Oct 2008, 17:10
Well in 1986 when RYANAIR started operations the doomsday people said they wont last with the big boys, well here we are 22 years later and RYR will carryin excess of 62 MILLION passengers in the coming year. You guys think its impossible, its obvious youall dont know the Great 0ne very well:=
11th Oct 2008, 17:22
Another 'Great One' fed the five thousand with a few fish and loaves of bread, turned water into wine and walked on water!
Well if 'He' can do it, I'm sure MO'L will have no problem with £10 transatlantic fares!
Just so long as it's not his 'planes that are being parked in the desert.
A well-known website has just posted an article describing 22 ways to beat the credit crunch. Number 16 is as follows:
16. Summer holidays
Now is not the best time to be heading overseas. The pound has fallen in price against almost every world currency (except the dollar) making foreign travel more costly - especially to continental Europe. However, a savvy traveller can still holiday for less - and there are some great holiday destinations in the UK. But if you are really in trouble with debts, flying abroad for a week or two at peak summer prices is one luxury you can do without.
The bigger you are, the harder you fall.
11th Oct 2008, 17:32
Not this old recycled shite again???
I must look up the thread on Airlines&Airports from last year - the one where a few thicko's insisted O'LearyAtlantic was imminent. Yes, any day now...stop laughing. Seriously, it's coming any day. Any day....
The FR share price dropped below 2 euro this week, hit 1.90 at its low point, and I predict further falls on Monday. Micko is grasping at any straw in the wind now to try and bluster up a rally. One of his pet journo's in the Sunday Indo two weeks ago called Mick Air's share price 'seriously undervalued' and wondered 'when the silly punters' would cop on to it....pity the idiots who took HIS advice at 2.50 and are now sitting on a loss of 25%.
O'Leary's world sure is full of suckers.
Romeo India Xray
11th Oct 2008, 17:34
I suggest that those who say there is no possibility of 10 pounds/euro one way Atlantic are the same individuals who have only a very loose apreciation of how the LCC model works. It is a very do-able proposition when properly yield managed however it will also be a big wake up call for Joe Public to see how much of his/her transatlantic fare consists of tax and "other charges and fees".
I suspect that when a true analysis of Pikey Pond Jumpers fares is conducted, the mean fare will be close to the existing full service transatlantic economy. Joe will swallow MoL's ticket price because of the perception of value, because they have all had over a decade of MoL telling them that this is dirt cheap and you wont go for less - that is the brand, that is the illusion and that is (sometimes) the truth - yield manage it correctly and NE USA and Canada are do-able.
11th Oct 2008, 17:55
Let me guess £10 there, £1000 if you want a return!
If MOL is so sure the economic downturn is good for business why is he parking planes, and forcing his crews into a month plus of unpaid leave? Not sure in the legality in that but then I dont know anything about Irish employment law.
Also why is it word around more than one airport is his not been paying his bills and on notice? Rumour or fact, anyone know for sure?
I for one think FR are going to be in a spot of bother before long.
11th Oct 2008, 21:06
400 seats crammed into a firesale 787 bought for cash so appreciating every day, burning say 20 tons on a transatlantic sector costing around £10,000 in fuel. Do a deal with some rural US airport (Boston North aka Bangor, Maine) and an equally rural UK one (Manston or Prestwick come to mind) for a wedge of hello money and get paid per passenger with no airport fees in return for bringing bods through the airport and giving the locals a job. Paint some big brand on the side of the jet for a bit of sponsorship, ratchet up the prices of the inflight a la carte michelin four star trolley menu, pay per the mile for baggage, check-in fees, slot machines for IFE, pay per use toilets, oxygen etc , crews on sector pay only, CC on sales commission only, stick to the east coast to get roundtrip from a daily crew. On the downside only one insurance and hotel sale per passenger but not signfiincant.
Do the maths. It may be a PR Agent's wet dream of a £10 fare to push, but with the average passenger paying in total less than £100 each way, a bargain, it's not inconceviable that someone with Ryanairs market power could pull this off. At £30 to £40,000 per sector - would it work?
11th Oct 2008, 21:23
You'd probably get people who'd try it once.
Repeat business would be, er, problematic......
11th Oct 2008, 22:22
As a non pilot. But I have an interest in FR as my mother lives in Spain, so comes over to LPL from GRX on a regular basis. She was aghast when her baggage costs more than the flight,taxes,etc. All is not what it seems,as they seem to not want hold baggage to keep the costs down. But this would be unavoidable on a transatlantic trip.
If I went over the pond with FR, the way I am looking at their operation is that I would have to travel with no baggage,etc. as I would be hammered by the 'add-on's'. I wouldn't even contemplate it with myself,g/f and 3 kids as the charges would be way through the roof.
11th Oct 2008, 23:53
Seriously guys... I can't believe you actually debating this... It's nonsense! Ignore this stupid story.
You obviously haven't seen the benefit to these addons, so let me introduce you to them.
I was going to Dublin last week on business, with BA it was costing £150 plus 1 stop off and a total of 5hours. I was forced to pay credit card fees, fuel surcharge, baggage fees etc even though I wasn't carrying any of it.
I decided to fly with ryanair, carried hand luggage (never cost anything) check in online reducing the paper waste and made things quicker (never cost anything) used a VISA electron card (never cost anything) and got the flights for £1 each way incl taxes
How can you complain about paying £3 for a bag!!!!
Skipness One Echo
12th Oct 2008, 01:46
Since these £1 only fares with tax included in no way cover the cost of flying you, perhaps you'd like to thank everyone else who had to carry luggage in the hold for paying the price of your carriage for you.........
Since when do BA charge you baggage fees for not carrying baggage? The VISA Electron must be the only method that is free with Ryanair becasue every other method I have used with Pikey Air has cost me at least a fiver to pay them the bloody air fare. Stop comparing apples and oranges. BA do what they do, Ryanair do theirs.
Selective stories from fans and cheerleaders is just pointless (!)
Romeo India Xray
12th Oct 2008, 07:13
Stop comparing apples and oranges. BA do what they do, Ryanair do theirs.
This is (almost) not a case of apples and oranges. Firstly ANY yield managed airline has a proportion of passengers "subsidising" the travel of a proportion of the other passengers. BA do it, FR do it, the just go about it in a different way. While FR hide nothing about their yield management (although dont advertise it either for obvious reasons), it remains quite obvious for all to see that it is indeed in operation at FR:
Rapidly increasing ticket prices as you get closer to departure day.
Credit Card fees
Check in fees
On-board salesThe idea (of FR management) is that you should get each person to pay the maximum the possibly can, while trumping an excellent deal, propped up by the few people on board who have genuinely managed to get one of your 1 Euro (or free) tickets.
Fast forward to BA and you find things are not too different although BA chooses to hide it under as much camoflage as possible. I have not travelled BA for years so am willing to be corrected on this point but do they also not use:
Increasing fares as you get closer to departure day
Higher fares at school holiday times
Business class passengers who are paying 3 - 5 times more for only 1.5 - 3 times more space
First Class PAX paying 10 times more for only 5 times more space
Various other add-on sales through partnerships and alliances(there are probably a lot more but I now very little about BA these days so I will not stab in the dark)
What this amounts to is BA using exactly the same techniques as FR except with a glossy cover. The LCC will give you the option of whittling down your fare price if you are someone who is conversant with the system and knows how to "play" it. On a trans Atlantic route this may not be the most comfortable proposition, but it may work for some few:
Be flexible with your travel dates
Take LOTS of sandwiches
Take a few empty water botttles through security and fill up at the fountains
Use an Electron card when you book
Travel light so get away with hand baggage only.FR know that very few people will be able to commit to this so they will get more revenue - SIMPLE.
So.....FR and BA are essentially similar, just each put a different gloss on the surface of what they do.
12th Oct 2008, 07:33
So who thinks that the crew will have to pay for their own HOTAC when away in the US? Either that or we will see crew plodding through terminals looking disheveled after spending a night in a sleeping bag!!! :}
12th Oct 2008, 08:27
If airlines can fly Heathrow to Melbourne without stopping which they will do next year and the crew doing those hours(dont work for a long haul carrier so not sure how they will work the hours/limitations) I am sure a quick trip to say new york and back from Stansted can do without an overnight in a hotel.
Actually there are a few more European capital cities planning to have new low-cost terminals or airports. One of them is Budapest.
Hungary's building authorities have given the green light for the start of construction at the Alba Airport, near Szekesfehervar, Biggeorge's, which is building the airport together with the local councils of Szekesfehervar and Aba, told MTI on Monday. The airport will start serving international low-fare and charter flights in H1 2010. It will be the country's second-biggest airport after Ferihegy, in the capital.
Biggeorge's also plans to build a business and industrial park at the site.From: realdeal.hu (http://www.realdeal.hu/20080923/hungarys-second-largest-airport-to-be-built-near-szekesfehervar) (23.09.2008)
To my understanding, this Alba Airport will be situated at the site of the present Börgönd Airfield (http://www.budapesthungary.hu/borgond-airport.html), close to the highway and railway line, some 60km South-West from Budapest and 40km from the Balaton lake. Not bad at all.
12th Oct 2008, 09:27
At Ryanair, you don't always get the best price when booking early; especially at this time of the year, there are special sales with tickets beeing sold cheaper than a few weeks ago.
And there are good deals to be made. For instance, I got a Charleroi-Treviso return for 8,02 euros total paid. I consider it a good price by any standard.
How can it be done ? That is not my problem.
Romeo India Xray
12th Oct 2008, 10:56
At Ryanair, you don't always get the best price when booking early
Very true - mine was just a simple breakdown. The yield management system is well aware of the sorts of number of people who will book early for any particular route at any particular time, and can thus load the ticket price to the best advantage (for the airline/shareholders). If there is a sector that is selling particularly slowly on a particular day/time, it is sometimes worth selling at a distressed rate (perhaps even flying that flight at a loss), in order to get the people moving, tickets selling and bums on seats ready to pay a higher price on their return.
Gone are the days when yield management was as simple as "we sell the first 10 seats for 1GBP, next 10 for 10, next 10 for 20 etc". By statistically analyzing historical sales it is possible to get very close to the maximum price from each seat and operate at a very high load factor. Why do you think it is that FR fly with exceptionally high load factors while the rest of us are drudging around on similar routes (but to BETTER airports) with desperately low load factors? :ugh:
12th Oct 2008, 11:55
if he decides to do it then no amount of scaremongering will stand in his way, as regards the impossible, last week i booked MAN-DUB and back, first flight out last back, days spotting for the total price of £0.02 all in !!!
I would have thought that impossible 5 years back !!
CarltonBrowne the FO
12th Oct 2008, 12:31
JDB1052, if you can carry 400 people on a 6 hour sector burning only 20 tonnes of fuel you are definitely onto a winner! And if you can get that fuel for £500 a tonne, will you start sourcing our fuel too please? We'll give you a commission of £25 a tonne and be happy to pay...
12th Oct 2008, 12:35
If intending to fly, first find out what's on offer from full service airlines eg non refundable tickets, two to go fares, special promotions, non flexible tickets, advance purchase etc. Then check the LCC fares this can yield surprises, I found a low costs ticket to be $12 more than an excellent airlines regular, fully flexible, frequent flyer miles included fare on a route I wanted to fly. This was BEFORE the LCCs baggage charges were applied to their non changable ticket price !
B777 with free food and drink 20kg baggage, inflight entertainment and FF miles somehow beats a cramped A320 with none of the above on the same route.;)
Be a savvy traveller and shop around, if you can comply with a LCCs terms and conditions, and you think the saving is worthwhile take the deal. Just don't expect too much and don't assume they are always cheaper.
The passengers departing from Irish airports will soon have to pay a new tax. Eoghan Corry from Herald.ie (http://www.herald.ie/opinion/comment/the-likely-departure-tax-is-a-heavy-new-burden-to-clip-our-wings-1497379.html) speculates on how MOL reacts if/when the new levy is announced.
Screwed again. The word coming down the tracks from tomorrow's Budget is that a new airport departure tax is to be introduced.
No doubt it will be glossed up with some sort of pious environmental dressing, but don't be fooled. This is a revenue issue. You can see why governments love departure taxes.
With 30m passengers passing through the three main airports, the €10 tax will deliver €150m to the Government in one easy stroke. Better still, someone else will have to collect it. Michael O'Leary will kick and scream, and declare that the Muppets in Merrion Street have done something incredibly stupid again.
But a departure tax is incredibly good news for Ryanair. It doesn't refund the departure tax to people who don't travel. Miss your Ryanair flight, and not only are you paying the highest fares on the plane to get the next one, you pay the departure tax on the double. Ryanair will have a lot of extra cash to pocket.
13th Oct 2008, 13:16
And another country that adds a departure tax:(.
Though the Irish airports and airlines serving them won't have the problem that passengers "bleed" to other countries, like Holland has.
13th Oct 2008, 15:08
Not good news for travellers in the Republic, but may benefit the two Belfast airports, to help stop the leakage of passengers to Dublin who are tempted by cheaper flights.
13th Oct 2008, 15:56
They wont make much money from it!
For every 1c seat they sell, they will lose an extra 10 euros. That will seriously outweigh the pros.
For every 1c seat they sell, they will lose an extra 10 euros.Just stop selling 1c flights, start selling... :p you know what*.
*make some research, re-organize the schedules, create a parallel website and sell for real money the choice of connecting flights. Sorry to be boring.
13th Oct 2008, 17:30
Personally I believe FR selling connecting flights would not work too well as a lot of their flights are either 2/3/4 weekly or daily which would not work well for connecting flights.
Also, they try to keep a VERY small bottom line and if passengers were to miss connections, especially on a low frequency route or in an evening they would have to fork money out of paying for hotels, food, taxis, etc.
I believe it would be a better move for U2 who serve more of a business sector and have more frequencies on many of their routes. A lot like BE butover a larger scale.
I believe it would be a better move for U2Not necessarily. EZY serve bigger airports. Between the big centres the point to point system is efficient and works very well. FR likes smaller places. One centrally located hub could boost LF to these destinations by giving pax the option to fly "from nowhere to nowhere" via this selected one. Under conditions of course, e.g. connecting strictly a.m. arrivals with p.m. departures only. By selecting just one centrally-located airport FR could concentrate there much more at least twice-daily flights from almost every corner of Europe (at present you cannot fly to most of FR smaller destinations more than once-daily or less, due to generally insufficient streams of passengers).
Okay, I'm a visioneer, but such a system would work, believe me. In 1980 or so (as a very young man) I've been to Hungary and visited Budapest. I still remember a centrally located square in that city where most of tramway lines were crossing. If you didn't know how to continue you could always go to Moszkva ter - always being sure to find a solution [meaning: connection]. Is it still there?
13th Oct 2008, 18:45
STN is by far FR's biggest base. Although the airline publicly does not encourage it - thus avoiding any liability in case connections get missed -they are aware of a lot of people flying from Ireland to STN, and getting another flight to somewhere in continental Europe a few hours later.
There would be nothing to stop FR arranging their schedules such that more connections become possible throughout Europe - perhaps make somewhere like Hahn or Bergamo a pseudo-connection-hub as well.
The difference though is that unlike network airlines, MOL will probably want the passenger to take the risk of a connection being missed. Once connections become advertised by an airline, they are more liable for EU compensation rules. Then one has to consider tranferring luggage between flights with the associated costs and the potential for lost bags. This all adds to complexity which translates into higher costs.
Of course, MOL will make a huge fuss before paying a penny of compensation. If a couple of people on a flight get this compensation and need a hotel for the night - it can wreck the profitability of an entire flight.
Ex Cargo Clown
13th Oct 2008, 18:51
Mikey the thieving pikey being slaughtered on Watchdog now.
Ban them from UK airspace.
14th Oct 2008, 10:26
Ryanair now threating Shannon if the Irish Governmant introduce a 10 € tax with a reduction at their 'loss making' base. For 5 months in the year the average fare in Shannon is under 10 €!! Put in up and customers will still fly.
Valencia being threatened as well if the local government don't help to promote routes.
They must be busy in planning new routes.:)
Not only Shannon. Today it also threatened to close its Valencia base, "following the alleged failure of the regional government to meet with its management and respond to a proposal about how to ensure continued passenger growth at the airport". Ryanair set a deadline of Oct. 17 to get a response from the government before it makes it final decision on the future of the base. It accused the government of "supporting other airlines that have not provided such growth to the airport".
Based on the Market Watch news (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ryanair-threatens-close-valencia-base/story.aspx?guid=%7B9925DF5C-199F-4199-AF9C-CE828CDCCE05%7D&dist=msr_1).
14th Oct 2008, 11:29
Just out of curiousity, all this talk from MOL about closing bases because of the cost base etc etc. Has he actually pulled the plug on the bigger bases? Hes not getting what he wants so close DUB for instance. So then where does he put the aircraft? He can bitch as much as he wants but MOL still needs bases to park aircraft or else you will just see FRs growth fall and fall.
Finally, will FR always be able to get the 19 year old Eastern European girl to work for buttons or the newly qualified ATPLer to replace all the crews that have come and gone or will everybody eventually stop and not work for a tyrant?
14th Oct 2008, 13:33
It may get to the point were MOL can get more money selling all the planes to china and puting the money in an bank ( or maybe but a bank). The FR model only works when debt is easy.
14th Oct 2008, 15:18
As well as Shannon and Valencia, he`s threatening to pull the plug on winter flights to Fuerteventura as well over costs there, which hasnt half got the overstretched property owners knickers in a twist:=..
Maybe Mikey hasnt yet smelt the very recent coffee and thinks he can still bully his way round Europe....lets hope he gets his ass kicked soon:ok:...pleeeese
10Eu for long trips..
2Eu for short trips..ie under 300km...so you can get to most of the UK from Dublin for a 2Eu charge but from any other airport in the country you can get to Dublin or else pay 10Eu. There's competition for you..
Its 200Eu to park at your office now among toher ridiculous measures..joke shop!
14th Oct 2008, 17:08
I reckon some of it is a load of bluster and noise. A while back he made a huge fuss about Cork not giving him everything he wanted - his response was to just cut a couple of routes.
The only reason I can think to retain Shannon as a non-trivial base is to demonstrate the Irishness of the airline. If FR becomes too UK-centric, the CAA has a case to move regulation from Ireland to the UK. I do not wish to make any comment on the safety of FR or the efficacy of the Irish authorities, but I am sure that because the UK CAA is much larger than its Irish counterpart, FR would have to spend more time on things of a regulatory nature. MOL would clearly prefer to keep regulation with a small regulatory authority. No business likes having its costs increased - he's right to make some sort of fuss before accepting it. Can anybody give any other reason as to why MOL has Shannon as a base ?
Valencia has plenty of potential to be a good base for MOL (if only as a way of knocking Vueling / Clickair out of the game) - he knows this and is not going to do anything to seriously compromise this. The Valencia regional Govt and airport know this as well !
Fuerteventura has far too much potential to make money in winter for MOL to even think about cutting routes.
10Eu for long trips..
2Eu for short trips..ie under 300km...so you can get to most of the UK from Dublin for a 2Eu charge but from any other airport in the country you can get to Dublin or else pay 10Eu. There's competition for you..
Yet again the DAA comes out smelling of roses while the regions get the raw end of the deal. This couldn't have come at a worse time for Cork, Shannon or any of the Irish airports outside Dublin. From Cork, the only route I know that falls within the 300 km limit is Cork-Dublin. Possibly Cork-Belfast could fall within the limit, and perhaps even Cork-Cardiff and Cork-Newquay but these three routes are all approximately 300 km from Cork so I'm not sure if they're below or above the limit!
If FR becomes too UK-centric, the CAA has a case to move regulation from Ireland to the UK.
I really don't see how the UK CAA would have the right to tell Ryanair they couldn't be regulated by the Irish Regulator. The EU has an open Skies policy allowing any EU airline to operate any route from any airports within the EU (subject to obtaining airport landing slots of course). Surely it would be against EU law for the CAA to insist they regulate Ryanair. Ryanair are registered in Ireland, they have their headquarters in Ireland, all bar one of the senior management of the company are Irish and they pay Corporation Tax in Ireland. The CAA wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on in trying to force Ryanair to be regulated by them!
14th Oct 2008, 18:22
From Cork, as the crow flies:
Belfast = 350 km
Cardiff = 360 km
Bristol = 400 km
Liverpool = 410 km
Manchester = 450 km
Birmingham = 460 km
East Midlands = 500 km
The only airport in the UK that's less than 300 km from Cork is Newquay
From Waterford, Plymouth, Cardiff and Belfast come into range.
Alternatively, Sligo-Prestwick, Sligo-Belfast or Galway-Belfast are in range.
From Dublin however, Cardiff, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Prestwick all fall into the sub-300 km range
14th Oct 2008, 20:02
10Eu for long trips..
The Belgian government also announced today that it'll be imposing an extra aviation tax. We should know exactly how much tomorrow.
Looks like flying between Ireland and Belgium is gonna get a whole lot more expensive :mad:
I would rather impose taxes (if any) on shorter distances, where the train travel could be a viable alternative. Certainly not the way it looks now.
15th Oct 2008, 09:59
Fuerteventura has far too much potential to make money in winter for MOL to even think about cutting routes.
Davidjohnson6, he already has thought about it and done it. Fuerteventura flights from DUB have been removed from the booking system from January 10th. May well be reinstated if something gets agreed but not normally Ryanair's style.
15th Oct 2008, 14:43
April to June timetables are now starting to be loaded if anyone is looking for flights.
16th Oct 2008, 08:40
Not price rises in aviation fuel, but price rises in the delivery costs of fuel at those airports.
16th Oct 2008, 08:44
If he doesn't like it , why then he can F@<hidden>%$ off. What part of no refund does he not understand? Ryan Oil the low cost oil company, its an idea.
Would this be the same Ryanair who have a similar monopoly on the route from Bristol to Dublin, and who charged me £170 one way for a purchase at the airport ticket counter for their next flight, while advertising "£10 fares" on the large billboard outside the terminal ?
I would have thought it was the commercial world for all, Mikey.
16th Oct 2008, 16:02
Does anybody have info on Ryanair opening routes in Esatern europe especially Bulgaria .
16th Oct 2008, 17:25
Maybe Mikey can get a better deal by booking his Air BP deliveries weeks in advance, otherwise it does sound like an abuse of monopoly and he is entitled to complain.
Bristol based Taffy
16th Oct 2008, 18:59
Sure Mikey, there you go it's only ONE p per gallon.
Ah but naturally to get that deal you have to pre order the correct amount required at least six weeks in advance. :E
Oh and that doesn't include the cost of getting to the aircraft.
Oh you want it delivered quickly by use of a powered vehicle, sorry normally deliveries via horse and cart, that'll be EXTRA :ok::ok:
Ah now you want it PUT INTO the aircraft ASWELL!!!!..That'll be extra please. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Damm where did we put those steps.....Sheesh sorry Mikey that'll be extra too!!!!!
Whilst I don't condone rip off pricing, you reap what you sow
16th Oct 2008, 23:21
Press speculation has suggested Easyjet might open a base in Sofia if that's any help.
17th Oct 2008, 17:25
Thanks 4 info if Easyjet go others will follow . why no coverage of Black Sea coast
17th Oct 2008, 18:32
Funny how MOL likes getting other folk investigated but woe betide those that dare have his firm investigated...
LONDON - BP issued a statement today condemning the Ryanair request for an investigation into their pricing. "Load of b0llocks" said BP CEO Tony Hayward from his Sussex sheep farm. "This so-called 'fair trading office' never investigates Shell or Esso and is clearly against those who provide best value for customers - it's jammed full of bureaucrats leeching off the flow of taxes firms like us provide."
I think you will find Ryanair will add more routes to eastern europe from italy before a base.
18th Oct 2008, 23:53
There will be no base in Sofia for EJ.
What's the latest from VLC base. I thought last Friday 17th was crunch day???
19th Oct 2008, 15:46
Having a look at May next year - LTN remains a 4 aircraft base.
BES? / MLA?
No Trapani or Milan Bergamo on sale yet - I assume due to the Alitalia situation - wait and see on that. Saturday would also imply that they could expand to 5 based aircraft.
19th Oct 2008, 17:57
Does anyone know about expansion at the BRS base? Are they getting more routes and aircraft in February 2009?
20th Oct 2008, 13:45
I've been hearing that Ryanair are about to announce a daily STN-MAN service. Working in Manchester this would be very convenient for me, its a route I used a lot when Air Berlin made it cheap enough and the aircraft was often full. Can anyone shed any light on this?
20th Oct 2008, 14:00
Im not sure if a STN-MAN would work for FR. It would need something like:
STN 0600 - MAN 0650
MAN 0715 - STN 0800
STN 2000 - MAN 2050
MAN 2115 - STN 2215
Maybe JER/ABZ/INV could work as new domestic services from STN?
20th Oct 2008, 16:14
Those were similar timings to the FR Blackpool flights.
It was no problem at all getting very healthy loads from the Blackpool end, for people spending the day in London, but it was difficult persuading people in London to get up around 4am and not get back until midnight.
One of my work colleagues used to travel down from London and be in the office before most of the local staff. He generally finished around lunchtime, so would have been hanging round for hours waiting for the return flight, so ended up travelling back from Manchester.
It might work better from Manchester, although FR had an advantage from Blackpool as there is no proper rail service since the grey bearded wonder withdrew the direct link..
20th Oct 2008, 16:30
A northern based aircraft would work a lot better than a southern based one as people need to get into London earlier than 10.30, which it would always be as the fliht didn't land in STN until 09.10. I was on it myself a number of times and there was always people running to get the train/bus to Liverpool Street in the centre.
However, basing one aircraft in the North would not be economically viable for an airline like Ryanair.