Re: Low Flying Question

[Helicopspeeder]

We are all professional pilots here, are we not? I have just read the thread (now locked by moderator) started by xrdbear. This concerned resident has gone to the trouble of finding and joining this site and posting on its often hostile forum as he has a legitimate concern. He was polite, gentlemanly and considered in his question and opinion. Why then have you professional pilots told him in no uncertain terms (with a few notable exceptions) to F*&# off and stop wasting your valuable time? This man has a problem and he has come to us for advice. It is obviously a weekend and the CAA can't offer him any help, the heli will be gone by the time the CAA get to their 9-5 offices and he has decided to come to the professionals for advice. Well done guys, we sent him away with his hat in his hands, probably to become another helicopter hater. Why lock the forum to stop further comment. Correct me if I am wrong but I belive that was an abuse of power by the moderator based solely upon his or her individual opinion. Why is it that we all feel the need to defend this pilot's actions rather than aknowledge the concerns of this gentleman and let him know that scaring his livestock, possibly flying dangerously and disturbing his peace are not what we are all about?
We here in Aus take a "fly neighbourly" approach to our operations and take a very dim view indeed of those cowboys who choose to bring ill feeling toward our chosen profession/hobby. I think that xrdbear should be advised to post the rego of the machine involved and let the pilot defend his actions in front of his peers.

[996]

Well said - I agree

[helicopter-redeye]

I think the moderator may have deleted some of the posts as well ... I'm sure I correctly identified the country of origin of the said helicopter and the colour/ type of the machine. The advantage of being on frequency at the same time.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

We here in Aus take a "fly neighbourly" approach to our operations and take a very dim view indeed of those cowboys who choose to bring ill feeling toward our chosen profession/hobby. I think that xrdbear should be advised to post the rego of the machine involved and let the pilot defend his actions in front of his peers.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, having flown in both UK and Australasia I can tell you they are two vastly different flying environments. As a military heli operator we 'fly neighbourly' as much as possible however when you take an island smaller than NZ and cram +60 million people on it, it becomes virtually impossible not to annoy someone! The MOD receive numerous low flying complaints each day and I myself have been accused at air shows and village fetes of 'flying so low you blew my hat right off!' and 'hovering in my back garden'. When faced all too often with these sorts of far fetched, exaggerated complaints it is understandable that heli operators are sometimes a little reluctant to believe claims from members of the general public.
In this instance however, one helicopter pilot may be rather fortunate that xrdbear was able to handle his complaint in such a mature manor.

[Flingingwings]

Perhaps the thread was locked to prevent any more comments being added that would further damage the reputation of helicopter pilots en masse :confused:

Adding the aircraft reg seems not to have been Xrdbears aim, and in a public forum frequented by a number that are not professional pilots OR commercially qualified why is Pprune the best place to discuss things?

It is evident that Heliport and Xrdbear have been in contact, and a link to the registration database will allow xrdbear to contact the owner/ operator so that any concerns or local knowledge can be expressed and discussed.

Sorry but I believe HP acted correctly in this case

[hihover]

Helicop - I hear what you say and under normal circumstances I would agree, however, I read the last thread with interest and I suspect that there was some communication with the local guy through private messaging and perhaps the moderator felt that the tone was deteriorating away from the spirit of the initial cry for help. Sad - but there were a few unhelpful responses.
I can't help but feel that the hotel owner had the opportunity to defuse the whole issue but chose not to. Maybe there's a history here that we do not know. Or maybe there's a sasannach in there somewhere.

[DBChopper]

This concerned resident has gone to the trouble of finding and joining this site and posting on its often hostile forum as he has a legitimate concern. He was polite, gentlemanly and considered in his question and opinion.

Quite possibly, and if that was the case then I share your concerns about the defensive tone of some of the responses.

However, whenever I read such a post, particularly when it is the member's first entry on the forum, then I am reminded of that phrase that appears at the bottom of the page:

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

It is clear that due to the private correspondence between Heliport and xrdbear, that HP felt there were very real reasons to lock the thread. Due to the very few times that happens on this forum, I'm inclined to trust his judgement.

And no, I'm not a professional pilot, just a private one who tries to do it with a professional attitude :)

[BillieBob]

Correct me if I am wrong but I belive that was an abuse of power by the moderator based solely upon his or her individual opinion.That comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of this site and I am delighted to correct you, Helicopspeeder, because you are entirely wrong. Pprune is a private site, paid for and maintained by Danny and others, and neither you nor I nor anyone else have any 'rights' whatever. If Danny or a moderator decides (based solely on his or their individual opinion) that they don't like a post, or series of posts, they are perfectly within their rights to lock, delete or otherwise censor without being required to justify their actions. If you don't like it - post somewhere else.

[Helicopspeeder]

BillieBob,
I am tempted to leave it there as I believe I have made my point and it seems others agree. Danny and company do a great job with the forum I agree. However, if you look at the header (descriptor) at the top of the rotorheads page you will see: "Rotorheads A haven for professional helicopter pilots to discuss the things that affect them". Not: Rotorheads A haven for professional helicopter pilots to discuss the things that affect them, unless of course the moderators don't agree in which case we will take our ball and go home. What use then is a forum such as this, (with a not undeserved reputation for contentious and often hostile exchange) if those professional pilots are censured merely because their opinions don't exactly match those of the moderators?
I understand that the original topic is closed and may have been settled privately but I do take exception to your "you have no rights" response. I do, in fact have rights and they are conferred upon me by my membership in the exclusive club that makes up 99% of the members of this particular forum. You see, if members of this forum (helicopter pilots, both professional and non) cannot expect freedom of expression when posting here then we will exercise our right not to use the forum.

[Heliport]

Helicopspeeder

"I think that xrdbear should be advised to post the rego of the machine involved"
xrdbear very sensibly realised it would not be appropriate to post the reg.
If he had, I would have deleted it. I don't allow aircraft regs to be posted in those circumstances.
xrdbear did not go away 'to become another helicopter hater.'
I've been in contact with him off-forum, offered some suggestions, and posted an extract from his PM thanking people for their suggestions.
He is now taking steps to minimise the chance of any further incidents which cause him concern.
(He is not pursuing a complaint with the CAA.)
"abuse of power by the moderator based solely upon his or her individual opinion"
Nearly every moderating decision in this forum for the past 6-7 years has been based solely upon my opinion of what is or isn't acceptable on the forum.
Whether opinions expressed in discussions "exactly match those of the moderators" is irrelevant. (eg I strongly disagree with some comments in the 'Chelsea crash' thread running at the moment.) However, my opinions about what is or isn't acceptable on this forum are relevant. I decide - in consultation with my fellow Mod if I want a second opinion.
Live with it, or use a forum where's there's either no moderating or modding by majority vote.

"if members of this forum ..... cannot expect freedom of expression when posting here then we will exercise our right not to use the forum."
I'm sure members sometimes disagree with or don't understand some of my decisions but, out of tens of thousands of posts each year, I get very few complaints/queries (2-3 PMs a year), because I very rarely close threads or remove posts (except free advertisers) and because regulars know I never do so unless I consider there's a good reason.
You've made only 13 posts in 14 months. If you don't like the way we do things here, then exercise your right not to use the forum.


helicopter-redeye
"I think the moderator may have deleted some of the posts as well"
I deleted your post because I didn't want to encourage attempts to identify the helicopter or the pilot. (I now know the reg, courtesy of xrdbear.)


Heliport

[jayteeto]

I had a post deleted as well, in my opinion it was not really out of order, however I have absolutely NO problem with the Moderator withdrawing it. If anyone doesn't like the way things are run, they can always stay away.....

[Bravo73]

I do take exception to your "you have no rights" response. I do, in fact have rights and they are conferred upon me by my membership in the exclusive club that makes up 99% of the members of this particular forum. You see, if members of this forum (helicopter pilots, both professional and non) cannot expect freedom of expression when posting here then we will exercise our right not to use the forum.

You are both right and wrong, Helicopspeeder. You have one right: to vote with your feet. If you don't like how things are run here (or the decisions that a mod might make), then the only right you have is to leave.

No freedom of expression. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

If you want confirmation of this, I suggest that you have a read of a relatively in/famous post from PPRuNeTowers (one of the owners of the site):

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3061175&postcount=3


:ok:

[lartsa]

the identity of the hotel should be known ,i may go there tomorrow [if i knew where it was ] and upset the chap needlesley

if one knows there may be a problem you could try to keep clear if possible




xrdbear didn't give the name of the hotel.
I'll try to find out.
H.