Crop Spraying

[g-mady]

Any pilots who used to crop spray or still do with helicopters?
Just would like to know what its like?
Obviously none in the UK (was it banned?) but for young pilots sounds good work, building hours? I know the hours are long but its sound worth the effort. Although language problems perhaps in EU countries?

Anyone recommend or not Helicopter Crop spraying?

MADY

[inmate]

I guess I must be out of touch with UK flying but at one time (74) you could crop dust in the UK. I started my career on a UK validation and dusting for Sloan Helicopters out of Sywell (Peter Nutting days for you realllllly old farts), at that time Bond had two H12E and also dusted. Well time marches on and so does change.
You might try reviewing the HAI helicopter operators directory, this may take a little time but probibly get some leads. Evergreen had a WHO contract in Africa and that continent is loaded with dusting.
Its a lot of fun,scare the crap out of you a few times but if you live through that phase of your career then go for it.
Best of luck to you and fly safe.

[g-mady]

Thanks for the reply - Ill have a look at those leads.

Yeah last I heard was during the 70s, so I assume it was all banned in the UK around then.

I wounder if these days its cheaper to use fixed wing for c/d but then that requires a landing strip or decent road?

Anyone else done this line of work?

MADY

[tecpilot]

At first crop dusting is definitively not a starter job!
Secondly crop dusting needs in the most countries a special rating or training, which will usually cost more than a FI rating.

AG is one of the most difficult helicopter jobs and the accident rates are very high. Flying very low and slow with large booms on both sides is very special. It's a job with a long day. Every unseen obstacle could be your last...

Spraying chemical is in our new world now unliked, the market goes down.

Spraying chemicals is not a healthy job. May be today the common chemicals are not the same poisons like some years ago, but some good guys i was knowing some years ago died on cancer in young years. And be sure in some parts of our world they have up to today the same poisons.

[ericferret]

Howden Helicopters were still spraying in the UK as late as 1993 with Bell 47's.

Manfriday helicopters were bracken spraying with R22's around the same time maybe later.

Bond sold their Hillers in 1986 to a company in Lincolnshire who were also spaying with a 206. Around that time Agricopters sold their Hillers to a couple of Greek companies. G & SG Neal still had a pair of Hillers spraying around this time as did Tom Clark (Helicopters for Industry).

Not sure when any of them finally finished. The back end of the 80's was the death knell of spraying in the uk.

[ericferret]

As to the effects of chemicals, we were spraying Quela(spelling) birds in Tanzania in the mid eighties with a 206.

We wondered how we treated the pilot in the event of an accident resulting in him being covered in the stuff.

The answer came back Atropine!!!!!!!! Standard military injection for nerve gas poisoning.

Mind you when you saw the effects of the stuff on the birds it was easy to believe, not nice.

Somehow the passing of spraying, certainly in Europe is probably not to be mourned however there were some good times in the process.

The increacing costs of keeping up with the legislation and the increaced use of low tyre pressure ground vehicles made it largely uneconomic in the end.

[tecpilot]

... most spraying action in Europe could be seen in the wine business. Mostly all 14 days the vines are sprayed with fungicides, pesticides and insecticides. Enjoy your meal!

[g-mady]

Thanks tecpilot, whilst a little brutal that was the sort of answer I was after.

I already work on an arable farm and so the spraying side of things is something I am used to.
Although Im quite young for the industy I did think it could be a way into gaining hours, but it sound like you disagree.
I heard from a couple of guys that Spain desperatly needs pilots for this sort of work...

R22s for Spraying - I always thought they would be good but never saw one kitted up. R44s yes but never saw an R22. Photo anyone?


Any more comments welcome...

[helicopter-redeye]

I saw an R22 kitted and working on a spraying operation at Oban last year (August 2006). It was operated by a southern UK company (cannot remember which) and flown by a pilot with an NZ accent (don't know who, but he waved).

So apart from knowing nothing all I can saw is that I saw something (the tank was underneath and booms either side). Must have been light on fuwl with 2 on board. It was going bracken spraying.

h-r;) (dumb or dumber)

[g-mady]

Found one:


http://i11.tinypic.com/631nf36.jpg

Judgeing by the size of the tank - the chemical must be very specialized or applied thinly!

[DennisK]

My old firm of Spooner Aviation, (Shoreham Airport, 1974 to 1980) ran a spraying business using the Enstrom 28C. (in the UK we didn't call it 'dusting')
We had several good contracts, Boots, ICI (Plant Protection) alongside dozns of 500 acre plus farmers. The turbo charged 28C was certificated to carry 600lbs (max auw being 2,600lbs) using the Agrinautics 36 foot boom spray gear for both the wet and dry application. For the dry spreading, we fitted a Vicon Hopper, the same container the farmer's used behind their tractors.
I recall spending more than a few hours calibrating the dispersal gear to produce the proper application rates. Several separate passes over a couple of dozen glass collection tubes which were subsequently measured and the spray nozzles or spreading impellors adjusted as necessary.
Our Ops Manager was a Paul Manning and none other than Brian Izzard was our Chief Ag pilot. Brian ... to those who knew him, was one of the Caledonian link pilots flying the S61 LHR - LGW route (G-LINK I seem to remember) until transport minister, Nicholas Ridley got the scheduled service cancelled. Brian Izzard was also a real live Bishop !
Spoonair Ag Services employed two other specialist ag pilots (Chris Cook and Derek Alexander both from NZ) and I found myself doing the simpler jobs, such as the Maneb on Potatoes and of course the treatment of Rinkosporium & Septoria. At one time we used some pretty fierce stuff to kill off Bracken, similar to the defoliant in Vietnam.
I recall managing around 100 acres an hour on insecticide work, which at that time we charged out at £4 an acre. So we werew doing good business)
The operation was flown under the CAA's Aerial Application permission ... (not an AOC) I still have the publicity video we made at the time showing how wonderful we were at saving the farmer's tons of money.
But mostly true as I recall the occasion when a Sussex farmer (Brian Harris) turned up with a brand new Rally 325, and was pleased to tell me that having saved his crop from the disastrous plague of Aphids that happened in 1976 ... the profit from his 1000 acres funded the purchase of the aircraft. He even had a Ladybird painted on the nose.
We mostly used human markers and it was important that we didn't spray them at the end of each spray run ! I can't remember why we didn't use the automatic flagmen.
I suppose it all came to an end with the increasing environmental awareness and associated costs, as one of the CAA requirements was to personally notify every adjacent property by a visit. As we often commenced spraying at 05.00 hrs, you can imagine the problem.
Anyway, I enjoyed the work, but as has been said, we did lose two aircraft ... One attempting to lift with the reloading hose still attached. The second due to a 'flashover' from a 33kv power which was being flown under. But thankfully no casualties, and we were spraying the next day. .
I know most farmer's preferred the helicopter for chemical application, since a good ag pilot gets the skids close enough to the crop to give it a good shaking which allows the chemical to reach the underside of the leaf. (Where the Aphids would settle) We used to double spray the headlands too just to keep the farmer happy !

Later in the work, we commenced the ULV and CDA system, (Ultra Low Volume & Controlled Droplet Application) where application rates of one pint per acre was the norm ... good for the R22 of course.

Typical spraying or spreading speed was 40 to 50 knots at around six feet so you didn't need to lose an engine ! At the end of each run, the heli is torque turned rapidly through 180 degrees to commence the return spraying run in the opposite direction. The trick here was to keep a good eye on the booms to keep them clear of the surface ... at the same time switching on and off the spray pump so you didn't do a spray job on the adjacent properties. A max wind spped was usually 5 to 6 knots to minimise spray drift.
So all in all, it was interesting and rewarding work and of course much of it was due to a successful team working well together. I suppose it was those steep torque turns that got me into the display flying.
If any prpruners have a specific interest in the subject I'll be happy to chat further.

Dennis Kenyon.

[DennisK]

My old firm of Spooner Aviation, (Shoreham Airport, 1974 to 1980) ran a spraying business using the Enstrom 28C. (in the UK we didn't call it 'dusting')

We had several good contracts, Boots, ICI (Plant Protection) alongside dozns of 500 acre plus farmers. The turbo charged 28C was certificated to carry 600lbs (max auw being 2,600lbs) using the Agrinautics 36 foot boom spray gear for both the wet and dry application. For the dry spreading, we fitted a Vicon Hopper, the same container the farmer's used behind their tractors.

I recall spending more than a few hours calibrating the dispersal gear to produce the proper application rates. Several separate passes over a couple of dozen glass collection tubes which were subsequently measured and the spray nozzles or spreading impellors adjusted as necessary.

Our Ops Manager was a Paul Manning and none other than Brian Izzard was our Chief Ag pilot. Brian ... to those who knew him, was one of the Caledonian link pilots flying the S61 LHR - LGW route (G-LINK I seem to remember) until transport minister, Nicholas Ridley got the scheduled service cancelled. Brian Izzard was also a real live Bishop !

Spoonair Ag Services employed two other specialist ag pilots (Chris Cook and Derek Alexander both from NZ) and I found myself doing the simpler jobs, such as the Maneb on Potatoes and of course the treatment of Rinkosporium & Septoria. At one time we used some pretty fierce stuff to kill off Bracken, similar to the defoliant in Vietnam.

I recall managing around 100 acres an hour on insecticide work, which at that time we charged out at £4 an acre. So we werew doing good business)

The operation was flown under the CAA's Aerial Application permission ... (not an AOC) I still have the publicity video we made at the time showing how wonderful we were at saving the farmer's tons of money.

But mostly true as I recall the occasion when a Sussex farmer (Brian Harris) turned up with a brand new Rally 325, and was pleased to tell me that having saved his crop from the disastrous plague of Aphids that happened in 1976 ... the profit from his 1000 acres funded the purchase of the aircraft. He even had a Ladybird painted on the nose.

We mostly used human markers and it was important that we didn't spray them at the end of each spray run ! I can't remember why we didn't use the automatic flagmen.

I suppose it all came to an end with the increasing environmental awareness and associated costs, as one of the CAA requirements was to personally notify every adjacent property by a visit. As we often commenced spraying at 05.00 hrs, you can imagine the problem.

Anyway, I enjoyed the work, but as has been said, we did lose two aircraft ... One attempting to lift with the reloading hose still attached. The second due to a 'flashover' from a 33kv power which was being flown under. But thankfully no casualties, and we were spraying the next day. .

I know most farmer's preferred the helicopter for chemical application, since a good ag pilot gets the skids close enough to the crop to give it a good shaking which allows the chemical to reach the underside of the leaf. (Where the Aphids would settle) We used to double spray the headlands too just to keep the farmer happy !

Typical spraying or spreading speed was 40 to 50 knots at around six feet so you didn't need to lose an engine ! At the end of each run, the heli is torque turned rapidly through 180 degrees to commence the return spraying run in the opposite direction. The trick here was to keep a good eye on the booms to keep them clear of the surface ... at the same time switching on and off the spray pump so you didn't do a spray job on the adjacent properties. A max wind spped was usually 5 to 6 knots to minimise spray drift.

So all in all, it was interesting and rewarding work and of course much of it was due to a successful team working well together. I suppose it was those steep torque turns that got me into the display flying.

If any prpruners have a specific interest in the subject I'll be happy to chat further.

Dennis Kenyon.

[zebedee]

I used to spray in Oz, and I agree that it is not job for the low timer. You used to need at least 700 hours (I think) just to apply, then there was about 9 exams to pass before you could even start the course. Then there was the training and the flight test. Admittedly this was with a CASA guy who probably had never been anywhere near a real spray operation in his life, but it still cost money! After that you could go and do it, but real life is much more complicated and it's like ten minutes of happiness and ten hours of smelly, dirty, uncomfortable, DANGEROUS sh1t! Another thing is that you can never get rid of the chemical smells - I used to have a shed where I kept all my Ag clothes. I would change in there to go on a job and shower and change back before going into my house. Even then my girlfiend sat on the other side of the room!
If you want to try it can be great fun, but mostly for the people. The job is the pits.
Zeb

[zebedee]

I don't know if he's still flying, but John Howells used to be one of the best helicopter Ag pilots in Oz. He used to be in Gatton, QLD so maybe a websearch, or even the yellow pages might help.
John McDermott was another ace, also in QLD but he sprayed in Scotland for a few years as well. Last I heard he hurt his back in a crash a few years ago but I don't know what happened after that.
Zeb

[nigelh]

I did my crop spraying training in Gettysburg with Ag Rotors under the guidance of a great old timer with around 20,000 hrs of piston under his belt .Hank Whitfield....mainly the 47 and the Hiller. After that my first job was spraying cotton in Egypt which was interesting to say the least ...the inside of a Bell 47 gets to a temp where the seat belts burn you if they touch your skin ...so you have the doors off and if you do a particularly vigourous torque turn you would be coming back into your own spray...after using one particular chemical the other pilots ( all Greek cypriot ex army )and i all had yellow finger nails and eyes :eek: We also lost 3 aircraft in 4 months ....later i ran a company near Ripon called GSM Helicopters and we ( using 5 Bell 47,s) competed with an outfit near Thirsk called Farm Supplies using the Hughes 300. Those were great fun times flying with my old mate and chief pilot Dick Meston , who a lot of you will have known, with him fighting a losing battle trying to keep me out of trouble := I am afraid you are too late for the crop dusting era has gone and the little bit of bracken spraying left will be banned by the tree huggers:ugh: There were never many English pilots as the very best were usually the kiwis who followed the season around the world...now watching some of them spray a field was poetry :ok:

[paco]

It's not exactly banned in UK but very awkward to do - there is some bracken spraying every year in Wales done by PABG (yes, he's still at it!)

I did some cut blocks in Canada one season (with a 355!), and they've got to be the must unsociable hours in aviation! I agree - not a job for a low timer!

phil

[crop duster]

Spraying with a helicopter or a fixed wing is a great way to make a living. Here, in Louisiana, it is accepted as a good way to help farmers feed the world. It is safe if done safely and the exposure to the chemicals are negligible. Use common sense. I tell my people that if they get it on them, wash it off.
http://www.webshots.com/user/cropdustern

Spraying is a way of life. If you are getting in it to build hours you are wasting time. It's just the opposite. You've got to build hours to get a job. The insurance companys want 1000 hours total time and 500 hours ag work. Kind of tuff finding that first job.
Ag flying requires you to get up early and work late. Fouteen to Eighteen hour days are the norm and forget taking off early to go out with the gang. When there is work to be done it's expected that you get the job done. It's really a farming job in an aircraft. More in common with a tractor than an aircraft. The pay is normally a lot better than most aviation jobs. Kind of like logging and other specialized work. A lot of pilots that try ag are just not cut out for it. I can usually tell when I first see a guy spraying whether he's got it or not. Unfortunately, I've never been able to tell before he begins whether it's his thing.
I've been doing ag work for 24 years and I'm still learning. Every day is a little differnt than the last. Flying in the morning is usually great. The middle of the day can be hell. We don't go by the regs on gross weight. We learn what weight we can work with and there is not a lot of excess power. Take offs from a truck or trailer are usually what we call rolling off. There simply isn't enough to come off from a hover without over torquing. A typical load takes 5-6 minutes to put out and then back to the truck for another. Loading takes 30-45 seconds and it's time to go. Carry enough fuel for 5 or 6loads so you can carry more product. Sorry to hear you guys in the UK can no longer spray. Each year it gets a little harder here in the US. Guess it'll take a food shortage before the extremist wake up. You can bet if food gets short in Europe and folks start going hungry because some insect is destroying all the crops, the public is going to want know the name of the **** that outlawed spraying.
barryb

[g-mady]

Thanks for the great replies chaps!
Especially DennisK, - 100 acres an hour! Thats what any farmer would love to hear!


I already live and work on a 2000acre arable farm so the Ag side of the flying would not be a problem. The long hours and smell is something of a way of life!
Apart from "crop duster"s post it sound like its a dyeing sport though!

Being young the Flying for me is for the near future but it does sound like its not for the inexperianced.
I didn't realise it also requires all the exams, flying training and tests! Might as well be and FI or IFR course!

but judgeing by the responses it is good work if you can get it! Sounds like you have all had some fun doing it!
Only problem is the word "had", seems like it is becoming less and less...

MADY

[helimutt]

Not sure if Mike Horrell is still at it but he was spraying heather with R22's in Scotland until a few years ago. MFH Helicopters I think. He was my FI course instructor and fantastic in the R22.

[nigelh]

You can often tell an ag pilot by the way they drag their skids for 50 yrds before taking off :uhoh: they are so used to being overfilled with chemicals ( which happened all the time with the ragheads) and being over weight and 110 degrees OAT means at max power you barely get light on the skids :eek: My old girl was a 47 G3B 1 G -BHKW and i even slept in the hangar with her :O

[shorthorn]

G'Dday Nigel,

Spraying when it's 110 degrees!! I'm suprised any chemical at all would reach the ground at those temperatures. I wont feel so bad now spraying when it's above 30 (C).

[Heliport]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Gallery/Lama_Bex.jpg

[g-mady]

Ok im assuming thats some sort of illusion so:

What is the liquid comming from under the tanks? Is the spray leaking?
Looks a much more suited helicopter to the job, larger tanks, more fuel. Expect running cost of the turbine.

Lookout heliport, that picture may stur up the anti Photoshop gang again!

MADY

[inmate]

Not sure if John is still dusting but he was working in PNG up to a couple of years ago. One of the gentlemen of this profession and it was always a pleasure to see him or fly with him.

[g-mady]

"Take offs from a truck or trailer are usually what we call rolling off"

Is this what you meant? Presumably one of these would drive until translational lift was gained???

http://i18.tinypic.com/6btqjx5.gif

[paco]

Wow! Nice truck! All we could afford was a jimmy....

http://www.electrocution.com/scan0234.jpg

phil

[RJC]

Not sure if Mike Horrell is still at it but he was spraying heather with R22's in Scotland until a few years ago. MFH Helicopters I think. He was my FI course instructor and fantastic in the R22.Yes, Mike is still going strong, Bracken control and Heather re-seeding. MFH Helicopters is who the spraying work goes through.

He is taking me through my PPL(H) based at Peterborough Conington. He also does spraying courses from time to time - I hear those are hard work but amazing to do. Some details on his website http://www.mikehorrell.com/

[lartsa]

nigel h

god you must be as old as my dad i thought you were younger

[ericferret]

Following a number of spray booms being damaged by being flown into the crop a memo was placed on Dollar helicopters notice board.

Do not fly at 2 feet when 3 feet (above the crop???) will do.

They were serious as well.

[nigelh]

Thanks Lartsa :rolleyes: I was only 21 when i started instructing ....and very quickly went onto crop dusting coz i thought it was safer :ok: :ok:
One of the notices we had on a board was the times when there is high usage on the elec grid .....lunchtime...teatime etc You may be able to fit under the wires at 10 am but go back at 1pm and you wont fit under any more due to expansion :{ Also the more humid the day the further away from the big cables you want to be due to arking which can reach 10 ft or more ......

cheeky bugger ...get back in yer R22 :*

[DennisK]

Crop spraying.

Just an odd note to brighten the day ... anyone out there recall the evening at the Sutton Bridge Hotel (Norfolk) when, after the end of a great ag season, (circa 1980ish) Spoonair Ag services held a 'thanks to all' staff dinner.

Our leading ground op/flagman had an exciting lady partner to say the least, (the rumour was an ex-Windmill lady) As the wine flowed, said lady decided to warm the evening by standing on the table and removing her top. I certainly enjoyed the views, but the hotel management and dining guests weren't so impressed and invited us all to leave. Those present were the C ag P Brian Izzard, Dave Cook, Derek Alexander, Paul Manning and the spraying team whose names I can no longer recall. (God bless wherever you are now)

I do know how competitive those days were. David Dollar's outfit were the Ag industry leaders alongside Heli Scott and perhaps ourselves, who were always being undercut in the price war. Still, the impromptu insecticide season was very short and very sweet, and our Ag team just got stuck in and made figurative hay while the sun was out. And even as the team boss, I also spent the odd night in the heli so to be reading for a sunrise start. Sadly not with the said lady!

But yes ... tons of team spirit, happy working and enjoyable days as long as the Hostathions didn't get up your nose!

Fond memories and best wishes to all ex and current Ag men.

Dennis K

PS. Don't pinch any Nitram for your lawn at home. I did once and spent the next month mowing every second or third day!

[ericferret]

I liked the photo of the spraying Lama. Did Dollar ever spray with their Lama's? I know they used an Alouette 2 G-AWFY.

[g-mady]

THE FUTURE!

http://i16.tinypic.com/5x6l4x0.jpg

Yes they are tiny spray booms! The website showed GPS and gyro stabalizers so you just set it to work and of it goes - more accurate than a pilot!

Another reason why it might be a dyeing sport?

[allyn]

I posted this under the video thread awhile back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLk8-ljPcuM

[g-mady]

Great Video!!!

See the way he gets out rotors running :eek: and stands in front of the tail rotor to reload!!!

I have seen R22 bush pilots do that. Are the frictions just strong enough to hold the controls centered? Obviously if the cyclic drifted it would be catastrophic!
And the way he lands on the mobile truck! He has clearly done that several times. Theres no hover, its just straigth in straight down!

Would love to do that one day, long way off though :rolleyes:

MADY

PS - How close was he to that wire!!!!!!!!!!!

[cpt]

The few crop spraying hours in Africa and france I have flown are amongst the best flying memories I ever had....Plantations and farms are nicer places to stay for an helicopter than airports. I had the feeling to be close of what was called "barnstorming" in early 30s America. Sadly enough, it's difficult to make a living of this now....

[allyn]

...Hungary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5zwayYY5BY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pP9VdfxgV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhbIR5v2-_c

The siren-like howl you hear are the cooling fans interacting with the shutters.

[g-mady]

The Kamov looks like a great aircraft to fly. Anyone know how it handled with one engine (an engine failure)?

The video shows how close you get to the trees!!!

Question for the like of DennisK... Did you ever see a Kaman crop dusting? I know its designed for heavy lifting but sounds like it could have been used???

MADY

[allyn]

The KA-26 is said to be underpowered. Here's a wikipedia entry that gives some background on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka-26
There's a KA-226 turbine version which probably has better performance...but the KA-26 sounds more interesting! :D

[g-mady]

found another pic (bit small though)

http://i18.tinypic.com/61nvo5u.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/4zxrsbp.jpg

[staticsource]

I know this is only my second post but i hope the pictures below work.

I have been fortunate enough to know Mike Horrell for the past seven years, and he took me through my PPL, CPL and FI ratings.
I have been lucky enough to work along side Mike while crop spraying, I started off learning about the ground equipment and ground crewed for three years prior to spraying myself.
During the months of July and August each year we go off around the UK spraying bracken. We usually use three R22's, one is based in the Highlands and Islands, one in the Borders and the third in Engalnd and Wales. Along the way I have been lucky enough to fly with some really experienced pilots, just to name a few: Noel Boyd (featured in The Last Great Adventure), Colin Bint (RIP) a true gent and Andy Brown from around Nelson.
The spraying aspect of the job is really quite tricky, very few of the areas that we spray are marked out using flags, therefore we use line features on the ground. Each job is different and I constantly learn each time I go out.
In N.Z. Dynamic GPS is used to plot out the spraying area and you can add in your swath width. This then produces a grid which you can follow on the screen (correct me if this is wrong as I have not seen this system before). When the job is finished you can get a print out of the area which has been sprayed and you can hand this to the client.
The draw back to this type of spraying is that you can not see where you have or have not been. The chemical which we use kills the bracken the following year and if you accidently miss an area you can end up with stripes - not good!! Bracken is really the only crop which we are allowed to spray in the UK however we have been out in Oman spraying date palms using insecticide.

Hope this gives a small insight into spraying - here are some pics

Me taking off
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/staticsource/IMG_0566.jpg

Me landing
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/staticsource/IMG_0565.jpg

And the equipment (notice the spray booms are just inside the disc area to reduce vortices)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/staticsource/IMG_0567.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/staticsource/IMG_0570.jpg





Links fixed.
Heliport

[crop duster]

static, just curious, how much can you work with in the R22? I've read somewhere that the tank holds 40 gallons. How are you flagging the fields? Is someone walking with a flag are are you free handing (guessing) where to make your next pass. We use Satlocs in the fixed wings and AgNavs in the helicopter. Can't imagine going back to the old ways.

barryb

[staticsource]

Barryb,

You're pretty limited on what volume you can carry - usually around the 100ltr mark, but you are correct about the 40 gal capacity. Flagging - what I was meaning was that the spray area is marked out for you, no men walking with flags, i dont think health and safety would like that too much!!! But yes we are free handing, the good old MK1 eyeball. But things are looking up, i'm pretty sure we'll be using GPS soon.
Do you find the AgNavs reliable? Is it similar to what i was saying about the printouts? We do most of out spraying on hillsides where there is no access with vehicles, does this system compensate for reduced swath widths on angled slopes?

Cheers Static

[crop duster]

Static, I don't care for the AgNav personally. I cut my teeth on the SatLoc and kind of favor it. The AgNav is reliable but not as user friendly in my opinion. As far as your swath width, it's up to you to tell it what you want it to do. There may be some special programs that will adjust but I've never heard of them. SatLoc, and maybe others, have programs that allow you to fly contours or around a hill but I've never used it. Hope you get your GPS soon. You'll think you died and went to heaven.

barryb

[Brilliant Stuff]

I love it that the old R22 which has come into so much stick and here it is performing a fantastic job crop spraying.Soon someone will use it for SAR.

Thanks for the pictures. I would love to do that on my days off.

[shorthorn]

G'Day Static,

I use the Trimble AgGPS EZ Guide Plus. It consists of a lightbar and a screen that shows your runs. I have a iPAQ handheld computer next to it and my spray runs are shown as thick blue lines on it. All you need to do is fly the boundaries of the paddock, then fill them in. After flying the boundary it tells you the size of the paddock, so you know how much chemical and water to use. This is a good feature as I have rarely spoken to a farmer who didn't tell you his paddock was at smaller than it really is.

The unit is primarily designed for tractors but is great for use in a helicopter, especially an R22 where weight is such an issue. I reckon my whole system (antenna, lightbar and iPAQ) weigh a total of about 2.5 kgs and is powered from a cigarette lighter plug, so no expensive EO's. I did try a SATLOC but I could barely lift the light-bar so I sent it back.

And the price? About 5 grand Australian.

Watch out for wires and happy spraying.


Shorthorn

[g-mady]

Did somebody say R22 in SAR mode?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/rhmaddever/R22rescue.jpg

[Head..er..wind]

Where's the winch and nitesun???

[g-mady]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/rhmaddever/R22rescue-1.jpg

Winch is belly mounted for C of G restrictions!

I fear I know where this is going and Capt Hollywood will know what I mean!

[flyer6893]

Am rgistered on pprune now. Kindly respond on my mail now. I am 65 yrs now & have an Indian CPL endorsed with Dauphin 365N, AS365N2, As355N.Alouette111,Lama.Bell47G3, Bell47G5, Agusta109C. I woild appreciate details regarding any setup tht is not particular about age limit. Am fit Class1 & have 7500 hrs on helicopters.

[Web Ferret]

What a coincidence! - What looked like an R22 with a spraying rig flew low over my house earlier!

Barnsley, S Yorks, around 19.00 flying due east - I'm new to this but I'm guessing less than 1000ft

[g-mady]

due to all this rain recently - crop spraying seems to be doing very well once again spraying potatoes when normal sprayers cant reach due to the water/mud.

The articles say that only 3 chemicles are now allowed to be aerial sprayed. One of which is bracken which seems to be the only thing keeping the industry going in the uk.

The quoted price for a jet ranger is now £30 and acre!!! A bit different from the £9 it used to be!

MADY

[havick]

Still plenty of it to boot in Aus, hopefully the rains will help NSW out a bit.

[Watson1963]

Look at this list of CAA documents held by a part of the National Archives...I stumbled on it looking for "Dollar Air Services".

Looks like all the well-known UK ag operators of the time, rotary and fixed.

Amazing days :ok:

The National Archives | Access to Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=007-aviation&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1)

Wonder what nasties are in the CAA file called "Chemicals policy" :eek:

[DennisK]

G'day ag fellahs,

Just seen the revitalised post on ag flying and now in semi retirement, I'm able to spend more time with pprune so first to apologise to G-Mady for not replying to his request in 2007!!! but I can say I haven't personally seen a Kaman any model on Ag work, but its ten to one there's someone in the world using it. But yes Mady, I usually achieved the 100 acres an hour with a decent sized field.

The Kamov 26 was in wide use in Ruskie land and when I vacationed there a few years back I managed to scrounge a ride in one on a spraying op near Kalinagrad. It wasn't the yellow chemical that got you ... just the noise of a couple of close radials!

I often wonder why the ULV/CDA system didn't make it into general Ag service ...about a pint to an acre I seem to recall ad ideal for the Robinson 22

I have a couple of videos of the Enstrom 28C on wet and dry spreading work and also on bracken up in Scotland. T'was an early morning, high humidity sortie and the piccy I have shows a pair of tip vortices trailing the Enstrom ten yards behind each 360 degree ring about 40 feet across. If anyone can explain how I get the video off my video tape nd on to pprune, let me know.

Good wshes to all past and current ag pilots.

Dennis Kenyon.

PS And if those two whizz kid New Zealand ag men ... Derek Alexander and Dave Cook are still out there, give me a hi!

[EMS R22]

Ag flying still flat out in NZ . We use 22's and 44's for spraying and spreading fert.

[Ned-Air2Air]

I just spent some time shooting Anderson Helo's AS350B2 topdressing out side of Hokitika and stopped in at the Hawkes Bay to see Jimmy Guerins guys sitting out the bad weather :ok:

In Kiwiland we have a large mix of helos working on ag from 22s, 44s, 500s, AS350s, Lamas, and even an old S55.

Europe is now seeing a lot of western machines there working with a 480B now working in Bulgaria.

Ned

[crop duster]

I just spent some time shooting Anderson Helo's AS350B2 topdressing out side of Hokitika and stopped in at the Hawkes Bay to see Jimmy Guerins guys sitting out the bad weather
I've been shot at a few times myself. But, I've never had anyone admit it in writing.:hmm:
barryb

[Ned-Air2Air]

Barryb - would be happy to come over there and shoot you - with the camera that is :E:E

[Lloyd Vandermeer]

Hi Dennis
I was with spooner a very short time with Dave Cook from NZ I'm Lloyd Vandermeer also from NZ . I was taken on to look after the spray gear etc, When I got back to NZ became a Helicopter pilot myself had my own company, Flew in Australia, now in CAnada living here, flew here for a while, I was at Spooner in 1978 so I'm getting on as well. Just finished with Pacific helis in PNG theres an experience I can forget .
Take care

[DennisK]

G'day Lloyd,

How super to hear from one of the old 1978 Spoonair Ag team. Really wonderful thing this Pprune site. I posted a while back on the wild 'apres-spray' evening at the Sutton Bridge hotel. Where you there? You'd surely recall the ex-Windmill lady doing her t..' thing on the dining table!

I've not yet heard from Dave Cook but was privately told that New Zealander Derek Alexander was lost on a spraying job. He was a tall 5000 hour man and a top ag man. God bless and RIP Derek.

Thanks too for the post Lloyd ... do you have any pics of the mid 1970s spraying ops at Shoreham. You will of course know of (something) Manning who managed the operation so very well. And of course the Chief Ag pilot ... again something (Bryan ?) Izzard. A real life Bishop and a wonderful guy who quietly talked so much sense but never let his religeous beliefs invade others privacy.

I have a video of my Nitram spreading on Brian Harris' 1000 acres after his tractor had churned up football sized chunks of mud one wet spring just north of Shoreham Airport. 'Twas following the hot summer of 1976 when every square yard of cereal must have been invaded by the Aphids. The lady-birds certainly had a good year and the resultant plague of insects was to be seen lying an inch deep in the gutters in their thousands on the streets of nearby Brighton.

Enjoy the retirement as I'm half doing!

Dennis Kenyon.

[shropshire21]

I have a film (now on DVD) of Peter Nutting spraying in Shropshire made with a cine camera in June 1959.

[austin19]

I am interested in getting into the aerial application business. I currently have a commercial license and working towards my cfi. Is there any way someone like me with low hrs could get his foot in the door, such as working ground crew? Any input is appreciated.

[Lama Bear]

Get at least a Class B CDL with HazMat, tanker and air endorsements. Next go get a seasonal job as a driver/loader. Find out if aerial application is really what you want to do. The pilot jobs are few and turnover is not great. Might as well start getting your state licenses too. It's hard work with horrible hours. Enjoy! This same advice would apply to most any utility job.

[Rotorhead84]

Hello, just wanted to introduce myself. Name is Matt and I've been flying for going on 2 years now. I have my FW PPL and I got my commercial rotorcraft ticket last May. I've been addicted to turbine exhaust since I was a baby and grew up wanting to do nothing else. So here I am finally. Did all of my training in a 300c in a few different places.

Currently 320ish hours TT and 180ish turbine.

First job out of school was doing Ag work.

Still wanting to get my instrument rating and CFI in the next few years while I get some time built up to compete for a full time gig. Loving it so far, and I learned a lot this past summer.

I'm here to learn from those that know way more than I do. If anybody has an experience with flying Ag I'd really like to pick your brain. Thanks!

-Matt

[Savoia]

.
Dear Matt

Welcome to Rotorheads and congratulations on landing your first commercial flying role.

Like you, my first flying job was spraying. In my case this was on a three year contract with the Rome-based FAO organisation of the UN. My assignment was spraying locust and quelea bird in East Africa - this was back in the mid 80's.

For locust control the helicopter (a Bell 206) was used as a scout to identify locust colonies in the savannah before they would reach areas of cultivation (a decent swarm can deplete upwards of 100 tonnes of crop per hour) and involved 'trawling' the plains at about 40-50 kts using the downdraft to 'disturb' the locust. Given the size of some of the plains in East Africa you could spend anywhere between one and three weeks trawling a single plain!

When eventually a colony was found we were supported by three DeHavilland Beavers of the Desert Locust Control Organisation of Kenya and by two Cessna 185's of Tanzania's 'Kilimo Anga' (agricultiral air) who would come in and douse the swarm. The 206 would also assist (we had a Simplex system with booms) and concentrated on those swarms closer to populated areas.

Quelea bird control was a slightly different story and the booms were swapped-out for Micronair sprayers which dispersed the lethal Fenitrothion mix. Spraying ops were conducted at tree-top level, at about 80-90 kts .. at night.

There are too many stories to relate here and now. Mercifully, during the three year contract the only incident was a shattered windshield which occurred after striking too many birds - hitting the birds was of course normal for this op and the 206 was fitted with snow baffles to protect the air intake from clogging up but, too many and it became a risk. Quelea birds are however quite small.

* * *

Words of advice? I never participated in crop spraying but I believe from the work I performed there may be one or two similarities and what I have to offer might apply across most types of flying activity.

Firstly, personal attitude. Some say it doesn't matter, I believe it does. 'Hot heads', the arrogant and fool-hardy are always more prone to accidents than those who approach their work with measured responses. Remaining calm, sensible and ultimately professional is, for me, crucial to successful flying.

Ag work, in my view, represnts a great opportunity to 'know' your aircraft. There's plenty of maneuvering involved which enables you to understand how the craft responds in a variety of scenarios and this, over time, will build your experience and grow your confidence.

Complacency is always a killer. It could be towards the end of the day and you are off to dust another strip and its the same old routine but .. every sortie, no matter how mundane or repititive must be embraced with an alert and conscious commitment to executing the task with absolute dedication to professionalism.

Last but by no means least, low-level ops means keeping your eyes constantly peeled (especially for the known obstructions). The mind has a tendency to 'relax' once a threat has been observed and which is why one needs to remain the more vigilant when it comes to familiar obstacles.

Being familiar with how to perform an auto from a low-level run or from a pedal turn are also techniques you need to be conversant with.

Keep your head down (metaphorically that is), be humble (in attitude) as well as confident in your commitent towards upholding professional standards in everything you do and you should be off to a good start.

Wishing you all the best.

S.

[RVDT]

Matt,

Hopefully by now you have made enough money to buy a helmet and also at least a couple of nomex flying suits!

[Savoia]

.
Good point RVDT. :ok:

No only were we equipped as such (including fire-proof gloves) but we also had masks (similar to a painter's mask but which were fitted with a microphone). This was used when we were spraying at night as it was impossible to avoid entering one's previous swath. Plus .. face-contact goggles which had to be in place prior to donning one's helmet.

The incentive to keep applying this garb was to look at the Beaver pilots - most of whom suffered from respiratory ailments of some description or another as a result of having applied Fenitrothion for years without any protection. :(

S.

[griffothefog]

I sprayed in a 47 in Saudi back in the early 80's, but back then NO helmets or nomex suits....:{

Just a pair of ear defenders with ear inserts underneath for ZZ Top from tape recorder :)

Complacency...... Got bored after 8 hours of mundane torque turns and aphid bashing and decided it would be more interesting to run the booms through the crop..... er wrong :{

Bent booms later hanging down off safety pins, I hobbled back to base low level with penis securely affixed to forehead :E

Stay sharp buddy, :ok:

GTF .

[Rotorhead84]

Matt,

Hopefully by now you have made enough money to buy a helmet and also at least a couple of nomex flying suits!I understand the concern. I was thinking about at least getting a helmet. As far as a flight suit, too hot for this kind of work. I've never seen a single ag pilot wearing a nomex jump suit. Even the guys in air conditioned air tractors.

Unless you're flying through your swath all day (which usually means you're doing it wrong :ugh:) I don't see the need to protect yourself from chemical exposure that doesn't exist.

Anybody have an experience or tips involving maneuvers in spraying row crops?

[topendtorque]

Hi Matt,
I hope you are really giving us a wind up WRT your preferences to not wear protective clothing. Just in case you are not, may I offer some friendly advice from my experience of more hours and years than I care to remember or will admit to and training and managing more pilots that I can remember. And yes we do ag as well as all low level stuff on our AOC but mustering / shooting etc is 95% of my profile, if there is one away from a fridge.

In our industry and I am sure even in little ol' Nebraska, you will notice that an accident that results in serious burns and facial or head injuries because you were not wearing helmets etc, could result in no insurance for your self. That's nasty, apart from holes in the head resulting from lack of protection, apart from the one that you have, would be even nastier.

As far as experience goes I can tell you that Savoia and other posters here are uttering wise words. Pilots become used to manipulating their machines in, err, the routine stuff when doing routine work at around 300 hours. That is when Fixed wing pilots and routine work pilots like yourself enter their dangerous stage.

Rotary pilots who consistantly do a highly demanding manipulative sort of work, such as mustering, long lining or any of the other hundreds of jobs that we do with these damm things, become really smart arses at anywhere between 900 to 1200 hours. That is when I take them up and do violent T/R failures from in the hover at 1200 ft AGL., and other little nasties to really bring them down a peg or three if they need it.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your candour, but of course you will not be at any stage to understand what I am talking about yet. I sincerely hope that your CP is reading your posts and will help you understand some of the good advise that you might glean from many who post on these pages.

You have a nice bit of gear there and every indication is that also would be a reflection of the maintenance of the aircraft. However, good maintenance aside being mechanical they are fallacious, be warned failure will occur when you least expect it.

Full protective clothing is a must to give you any sort of protection in case it bloody well brews up and your legs all of a sudden don't work and you can't get out even though one hand is still working and you can't undo the seat belt. I note that on your shirt I couldn't see any sleeves when I blew your photograph up a bit. I hope for your sake it is not of the plastic variety.

As far as chemical burn is concerned, for sure the stuff that our guys over here use nowadays, is a lot less harmful in most applications than it used to be, something to do with not spraying human food with carcinogens eh? That might be the least of your worries, but I am surprisied that your handlers are not wearing more protection, surely the state laws there would require it which they should see when you and they get their poison handling tickets.

WRT to full clobber and high quality saftey gear, there is a couple of good threads through these pages that you can use to study up on.

However, I sincerely wish to impress upon you to forget about your conceited attitude about how hot it is. That is absolute and utter drivel. How f'n hot do you think it is for your contry men in Iraq or back in the jungles of Vietnam? Just ask one of them if you are game, about your attitude and whether they would gallivant around in shorts and no socks. Be expected for a blast if not a good biff under the ear or a number ten on the backside, if they even care to pass the time with you.

I indeed work a lot closer to the equator than you and I wear full length clobber at all times, at least heavy cotton or wool and helmet.

You will go a long way toward gaining some semblence of respect here-abouts by posting a photograph of yourself and staff being suitably attired for impact, fire and poison protection.

What I am saying is chicken feed to what some the dudes here who have thousands of hours doing ag work may say to you.

Unless of course it is a wind up in which case I will unreservedly apologise. BTW where did your sight bar gear come from, out of the ark?
cheers tet

[Rotorhead84]

In our industry and I am sure even in little ol' Nebraska, you will notice that an accident that results in serious burns and facial or head injuries because you were not wearing helmets etc, could result in no insurance for your self. That's nasty, apart from holes in the head resulting from lack of protection, apart from the one that you have, would be even nastier.

Not sure how the insurance thing works when it comes to not wearing a helmet or nomex. I'm going to look it up though and make sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I do plan to get myself a helmet. I agree that it'd be stupid not to.


As far as experience goes I can tell you that Savoia and other posters here are uttering wise words. Pilots become used to manipulating their machines in, err, the routine stuff when doing routine work at around 300 hours. That is when Fixed wing pilots and routine work pilots like yourself enter their dangerous stage.

Hence the saying "I know just enough to kill myself" Is that where it came from? I'm trying to avoid that "I know what I'm doing/nothing can go wrong" mindset entirely. My goal in my career is to be completely humble and learn from others as much as possible.


Rotary pilots who consistantly do a highly demanding manipulative sort of work, such as mustering, long lining or any of the other hundreds of jobs that we do with these damm things, become really smart arses at anywhere between 900 to 1200 hours. That is when I take them up and do violent T/R failures from in the hover at 1200 ft AGL., and other little nasties to really bring them down a peg or three if they need it.

I've heard plenty of horror stories about the "cocky pilots" and another goal of mine is to not fall into that mindset. I don't see any need for it. And I certainly don't see how it could possibly be good for helping my career along.

Could you elaborate on the T/R failures and other tricks up you might have and the appropriate corrective actions? I'd love to learn!


You have a nice bit of gear there and every indication is that also would be a reflection of the maintenance of the aircraft. However, good maintenance aside being mechanical they are fallacious, be warned failure will occur when you least expect it.

This mindset of always be ready for failures was engrained in me early by my fixed wing instructor and then really hammered home by my helicopter instructors. But thanks for the advice. Any general tips or tricks for such situations?



However, I sincerely wish to impress upon you to forget about your conceited attitude about how hot it is.

I sincerely wish to say to you that I don't have a conceited attitude. At all. If being brief and quick to my point makes it seem like I have any sort of an attitude, I apologize. I am here to learn, not front any sort of attitude towards anyone.


How f'n hot do you think it is for your contry men in Iraq or back in the jungles of Vietnam? Just ask one of them if you are game, about your attitude and whether they would gallivant around in shorts and no socks. Be expected for a blast if not a good biff under the ear or a number ten on the backside, if they even care to pass the time with you.

Its pretty hot in Iraq. I served two combat tours in the US Marines. We gallivanted around in shorts and socks quite regularly. Not sure about Vietnam, but most of the stories I've heard and pictures of seen from relatives or military superiors who served in vietnam that there was also plenty of gallivanting around in shorts and stocks. I realize what you were going for by making your comments, but I think maybe you should reserve judgment until you know the person you're dealing with. And I say that respectfully. I understand the point you're trying to make about protective clothing.



You will go a long way toward gaining some semblence of respect here-abouts by posting a photograph of yourself and staff being suitably attired for impact, fire and poison protection.

Growing up in the aerial application business most of my life I've seen several of the nearby operations and met many others in the industry. I can say the level of protection we use is pretty standard for the types of work we do and the chemicals involved. Our handlers are the only ones I've ever seen over the years that always wear gloves, protective eye wear, and earplugs.


BTW where did your sight bar gear come from, out of the ark?

I think by sight bar you mean light bar? Its a SATLOC system. Lightbar works great. Not sure what is meant by the Ark comment? Does it look old or something? :p

[ozaggie]

Once upon a time, there were three bears, Big... ah ****, wrong story. Anyhoo. A while ago, about 20 yrs, a bloke hit a wire in a Pawnee. In the ensuing melee, the right hand boom entered the cockpit and lodged in the pilots helmets. The helmet, which was 4 hours old, was destroyed. The pilot survived with minor cuts and bruising. Kinda says it all really.
ozaggie....

[RVDT]

experience of more hours and years than I care to remember or will admit to and training and managing more pilots that I can remember

Concur!


Matt,

As you are in the USA a "green bag" CWU27 Flight suit can be had surplus starting at about 25 bucks upwards depending on the quality.

As you claim it is so "hot" just wear the bag at least. Buy a few and all I used to do was shower with the bag on wash / rinse it after you get out of it and hang it up to dry. Put a clean one on for the next day. Worked OK for me at temps around 115F and your OAT only sez 84F or 29C. Thats a balmy winters day where TET comes from!

Be careful that with time the Nomex can wash out. Try a cigarette lighter comparison between a green bag and your current gear.

Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs but..................

[Ag-Rotor]

Been doing ag flying now for many years now & after a few dents here & there I am fortunately still alive to enjoy this exciting job. Tip one always wear a Helmet, I'm personaly not a fan of nomex suits but I wear 100% cotton overalls or jeans and shirt, and don't get caught up on the feelling of done 100 turns done them all scenario, every day and every turn is different from the last one because wind & weight conditions are allways changing. Have a good wire avoidance routine and stick to it, only fly in the zone you have inspected and become a creature of habit.

[topendtorque]

Hi matt,
how's it going, still alive? just a couple more tips.

firstly, don't bother about having an f'n answer for everything, save the explanations for you own learning and conduct.

secondly, I note you're operating in a bit of dust, got any dust filters on that rocket?

thirdly, keep your engine trend chart right up to date, you're environment may need it. why/ because even tho' you have top gear what you are doing is launching at max weight off a skid rest almost into a direct OGE situation prior to translation well above the most efficient rotor height. this may mean that as you go along you may? become complacent and just keep on pulling that little bit more power, hotter day - loader stuffs up and puts a bit too much in you tank -those sorts of things. It's always much easier to lift a good load from IGE. That engine performance may creep away from you before you notice it.

fourthly, make sure you have an escape plan if the donk quits just after you pull power and are lifting off. The considerations are 1) how to get away from the truck with your T/R - the loaders really won't appreciate bits of metal in their ear holes, 2) then figure out how to be able to stop forward motion before touchdown - the ground that you mostly will launch over is a fine tilth of plowed soil, usually wetted down to make the plants grow innit and thus not condusive to run on landings.

fifthly, not only is your OAT gauge a bit of a give away as to how cool your environment is, but those lilly white legs man, how much sun have they really seen? is this some sort of a windup? and please tell me how many pilots did you see getting about in Iraq flying in shorts, give it a break mate, pull the other leg it plays jingle bells. no, better still don't worry about the f'n stories we already know the answer to that.

Number six. if your loaders wear gloves and ear muffs they must of forgot 'em for the photo huh?

number seven, if others in the industry swan around in shorts, well I say to that why put your head in a gas oven just because some else does? be an individual and be responsible enough to set your own pace, and as Ag-rotor says, form some good habits, helps when you get old an' doddery and forgetful.

surely there should be three more stories to round it off, but I can't think of them right now, just keep you head down, your eyes and ears open and you're trap shut an' you'll be alright.
cheers tet

[nigelh]

You just got to love that TETguy havent you ....full of encouragement for the newbee spray dude :D:ok: I used to have Dick Meston telling me everything i was doing was wrong ( and even some of the things i was thinking of doing would be wrong too ) !!!!! I am sure his heart is in the right place :ok:

[griffothefog]

Give the newbie sprayer a break... I learnt the trade seat of the pants with no protection what so ever and we were spraying ULV Malathion/Semathion :eek:

I've only got a slight cough these days.......:E

Good luck son and keep the booms above the crops. As my boss said to me after I wrapped the booms up, " you were supposed to spray the bastards, not beat them to death"

GTF.

[topendtorque]

I hear exactly what you are saying there nigelh and I am quite happy to cop the criticism. I am also happy to say in front of the subject that impetuousness, which I think he may have a tad of, is one of the many failings or traps that many newbies can fall into. This quality is perhaps a totally separate entity from ego in all its variables. Of course that ego quality is often found in racing car drivers, -and helicopter pilots. surprise - surprise.

Impetuousness expresses itself in many ways and I have seen many bits of bent stuff as a result of it so I ususally react the way I did here and I have found it helps. Case studies reveal the old; "seemed like a good idea at the time," or, "gees I knew I shouldn't have done that." in each case the underlying and previously tested judgement capacity appeared to be very sound.

In this case this dude is well organized, has obviously worked hard to get where he is and I would guess has a quite high skill level in most of the disciplines that he will need. I am sure that he will go well in aviation. Most of us would envy his excellent start and job for sure. I am sure you don't need any introduction to what I am saying, it is for the benefit of the newbie.

Just perchance this (as below) turned up on my email this morning as a good demonstration. It is a true story of our families youngest teenager of the next generation, my brother's daughter, who has managed to - I hope - learn a little of a couple of lifes values in a way that we as parents hope that they don't. The good news is, she has survived, well so far as you'll see. Happened just a couple of days ago somewhere in north USA.

cheers tet

"Onto one other bit of education.
S---- decided to go shopping when at swimming carnival that she drove herself and L-- to.
S---- left her advised location without informing mother because she thinks she is entitled to.
S---- stuck the nose out to test the air in the peak hour traffic.
Then drove blind across to second lane under direction of stopped first lane driver.
Bang.
Removed nose off Mum’s car.
S---- is not hurt nor are the other two drivers.
Fine of $425.00 from Police for failing to yield.
Court appearance –yet to happen.
Perhaps driver training.
Two cars to also claim insurance against me.
One white mice benz to repair if not written off.
S----’s dad is not happy.
And the worst of all is just starting, for S----’s Mum is so totally - totally - totally so pissed off that she can’t even look at S----.
S---- faces strangulation

[540DEGREE TorqueTurn]

what topendithinkimahelicoptergod was trying to say was that this is how he was ,and the traps he has hit ,he just loves hearing& reading his own speech , and im sure he grins to himself in the mirror everytime he walks past 1.

topendtorque I have a really good VHS video of you showing everything your talking about , does a yard up at larrys lake vrd make you smile as much as it does us.

better still i will put it on here soon so ,you can tell rotorhead 84 where you went wrong :E

[heliduck]

This is not directed at TET or Rotorhead84 in particular, just a saying I like to remind myself of occassionally which came to mind after reading through this thread - "The problem with young people is they think that intelligence is a substitute for experience, & the problem older people is they think experience is a substitute for intelligence".

[crop duster]

Matt, congrats on your job. Sounds like you are off to a great start. You have a good attitude and are willing to listen. Get yourself a helmet before the season starts even if it's an old motorcycle helmet. Trust me, you need one. If you need to talk or need some advice, PM me.
barryb

BTW, gooding looking bird. I had the first Satloc in La way back when. Using the M3 now with the same "ark" light bar.

[osmosis]

austin19
Zebedee's post is how I remember it. Chemical soaked protective gloves, overalls & boots and living out of a duffle bag are not glamourous as far as I'm concerned. Long days no creature comforts and often no sustenance during the day. Back to the pub at night on an empty stomach and horizontal by the third pot. Sun rises a few hours later and do it all again. There is much to be learned about aircraft handling but it is not the life for everyone, I assure you.

[Rotorhead84]

Anybody ever seen this video? Not me of course as I do not work in Indiana. I've never seen these types of Ag turns utilized. Anybody else fly like this? Seems to be more stress on the aircraft than necessary for the work. I'm probably way wrong about that, I was taught to be as easy on the aircraft as possible, especially when loaded and turning. Only be as aggressive as necessary to clear the biggest obstacle and nothing more. I was also taught to gain as much altitude as your entry airspeed will allow before sliding back the other way. This video seems to be the exact opposite as I was taught. Cool video either way.

YouTube - helicopter crop dusting. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN4IXwJjzWY&feature=feedf)

NN4IXwJjzWY&feature=feedf

[krypton_john]

Surprised it is economic to use a helicopter when the terrain is so flat and vehicle accessible. Down here they'd be using a tractor towing a trailer mounted tank and sprayer. Slower but you'd get a whole field done without reloading and tractors don't cost much to run.

[Rotorhead84]

Tractors are slow and cumbersome. Field conditions or wind usually keep them out 50% of the time when you're ready to go or they'll mess up the row crops. So if you farm 1500ac you won't be able to get all your fields done during your windows for treatment (varies from a few days to a week where I am from). A spray rig costs 300k. For that price + the cost of an ag kit, you could buy an OH-58 and be able to work 2000+ acres per day. So most farmers just hire somebody to do it. For as much as they pull in for crop, its just a drop in the bucket.

[nobloodywind]

Hey rotorhead, why don't you put back up those still photos you had. The guy in this ship looks mighty like you. so does the ground rig look identical.

[Rotorhead84]

Is it the fashionable attire that makes you think I have aged 10 years and moved to indiana? :O

Ill get the photos back up. I didn't realize I had killed the links when I re-organized my photo hosting service. My aplogies.

The ground rig looks much different than what we've got as well.

[Scooter77]

Was just searching for crop spraying videos and found a good one on this guys website :sad: Apex Helicopter Inc - Home (http://apexhelicopters.vpweb.ca/) its worth a watch if like helicopter crop spraying videos.

Q2LCYAK1buA

[Reafidy]

Heli A1 Commercial & Agricultural Helicopter Service, Waikato, NZ (http://www.helia1.co.nz)

Video:

Heli A1 AS350B2 HELICOPTER LOW LEVEL AG OPS - YouTube

[2054]

Hi Dennis,

I'm looking to start a Braken spraying business up in Scotland and have been reading your posts with interest. Do you have any advice for me, any contacts in the industry or any further information that you would consider to be useful? I have contacts in New Zealand where the current competition comes over from to complete the requirements. I would very much appreciate your thoughts - you seem to be the leading SME on the subject. Please get in touch and we can have a chat over this forum initially if you are comfortable. Look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

2054

[MightyGem]

Caterpillar Spraying in the UK:
Pest caterpillar helicopter spraying goes ahead despite local residents' concerns | Environment | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/15/pest-caterpillar-helicopter-spraying-local-residents)

[Wildpilot]

Just a general message really, I'm a fixed wing pilot from Sussex (UK) and now working for one of the largest aerial fire fighting and ag flying operations in Australia. My point is if you really really want to get into this work it is possible but you got to move around. To get experience I have been a pilot in NZ, Africa (piston bush flying) and on floats in Australia ( piston and turbine). And now I am the new kid in ag and I'm mid thirties.

There is still work in various places throughout the world, lots in Africa certainly for fixed wing, I guess also helicopter.

So my point is I grew up in Sussex used to watch the planes flying into Gatwick had my first lessons at Redhill and gained my ppl there. And now I am starting my career in ag in Australia. It is still possible but its going to take allot of effort.

Have really enjoyed the thread, used to work for London helicopters on the spanners by the way.

Dream big and dare to fail.

[JaredYng]

I was wondering if anyone currently does this and if so could you help me learn more about the industry? I have a friend that is looking into doing it for his own farm but I don't know what the best aircraft is or really anything about it. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks

[Savoia]

Jared: There are many outfits still engaged in spraying.

I suggest you browse a couple of the spray company websites to gain some basic information and then contact one or two of them with your enquiry. They will immediately ask what type of crop you have, what it is you want to apply and the size and basic layout of the area involved.

Here are a couple you can start with:

Apex Helicopter Inc - Home (http://apexhelicopters.vpweb.ca/?prefix=www)

Home | Applebee Aviation (http://www.applebeeaviation.com/)

Helicopter Air Services (http://www.countryviewhelicopters.ca/)

Welcome to Lohman Helicopter (http://lohmanhelicopter.com/)

http://www.sintonhelicopters.com/

You can also try: National Agricultural Aviation Association (http://www.agaviation.org/)

I think you will find that any of these people will be willing to speak with you and provide basic information and if you can find an operator near your farm they may even come over and discuss your requirement.

[newfieboy]

Jared
I am currently spraying in Canada, for conifer release for forestry. We were doing Ag a month or so back. We are using 2 Longrangers and a AS350B2. Next season we plan to add our B3's also. What do you need to know. Fire me a pm and will try to answer your questions.

Newfie

[vaqueroaero]

I spent the spring spraying herbicide on to grazing land in Oklahoma and Texas, then moved onto spraying mesquite. There is a chance that in the not too distant future we may start defoliating cotton. We used an R44, which although not my favorite machine for the job done.

Feel free to drop me a line with any questions.

[Savoia]

One of the more informative spraying videos that I've seen in recent times:

Aerial Attack - The Management Advantage #45 on Vimeo

Some 'classic' American accents in there too!

[Dave Ed]

Hillers and Bananas.
Panama / Dominican Republic, early sixties.

At least they all looked survivable!

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae157/skyweaver100/Hillers%20and%20Bananas/HillersandBananas3.jpg

[Savoia]

Panama / Dominican Republic, early sixties.


Early's 60's indeed.

The Hiller 12-A (bottom right) G-AMDN, began life with 'Pest Control' services at Bourn Airfield in Cambridge in 1950. The craft was then registered to 'Fison Airwork' at the same location before Fison was bought (I think) by Airwork Helicopters at Redhill in 1960. In 1961 she was registered to Bristows.

[whirlybirdguy]

Hey Guys,

Need guidance on how much do booms extend out from helicopters & what is the width covered in each run by most helicopters.

Thanks

[Savoia]

Ciao Whirlybirdguy!

How much do booms extend out from helicopters.

The boom width varies from one aircraft type to the next and from one spray-gear manufacturer to another.

On the Bell 206 using the standard Simplex booms, the boom span is 36ft with a rotor diameter of 33ft.

What is the width covered in each run by most helicopters.

The 'width' of the chemical (or fluid) being applied is referred to as the swath and again .. this varies according to boom width, height and speed flown, the density of the fluid/chemical, wind conditions, pilot technique, nozzle aperture and fluid dispersal rate.

What I suggest is that you try and obtain as much information as you can about your requirement, the area to be sprayed, what it is that you are spraying, the type of terrain involved, the elevation and temperature etc. and then contact one of the many spray companies (you can find a partial list of some of these companies on the previous page in post #95) and seek their advice.

[tcamiga]

Hi WBG

Have flown ag work spraying in India - but not crop dusting.

There's a lot more to spraying than knowing about boom width - especially with the density altitude in some areas.

Suggest that you PM me if you need more help.

Tc

[EMS R22]

The standard use to be that boom size was 80% of rotor diameter to reduce vortices.

Although now days with new nozzle technology a lot of booms are 100%.

[SuperF]

might be showing your youth there ems R22.

the standard used to be, make the booms as long as the helicopter could handle. poke the spray right out into the vortices to get as much spread as possible.

then people started to get worried about spray drift, lifestylers moved in, sensitive neighbours came, etc. everyone had to go down to 80% of rotor diameter.

now i guess that some people are looking at extending booms back out again.

it depends on lots of factors, but if you want to spread the stuff as far and wide as possible, then poke the spray right out past the rotors, if it needs to be more controlled, then 80% of rotor width.

[SLFool]

About the oddest thing I've seen spread from a helicopter was pelleted sphagnum moss, in 2010:

http://bleaklow.com/images/2010/sphag_heli.jpeg

More at A busy day on the moors - Alan's Ramblings (http://bleaklow.com/2010/05/22/a_busy_day_on_the_moors.html) and Sphagnum Project | Moors for the Future (http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/sphagnum-project)

The same folks also built a device for spreading heather brash (chopped heather) by helicopter which wasn't entirely successful when asked to deal with blocks of wet, frozen heather :}

http://bleaklow.com/images/2006/black_hill_heli_7.jpeg

Airborne muckspreader - Alan's Ramblings (http://bleaklow.com/2006/04/05/airborne_muckspreader.html)

All this work has been done as part of the Moors For the Future project in the UK, which is doing moorland restoration work in the South Pennines between Manchester and Sheffield - you've probably been over it if you've ever flown into Manchester. Because the area is a peat bog, everything has to be flow in by helicopter and to minimise wildlife disturbance it all has to be done in the depth of winter:

http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/sites/default/files/gallery/Brash%20Airlift%202004.jpg

There's a Bell 205 (think that's what it is) here at the moment. The statistics are quite impressive, all of this was transported by helicopter, and this is just for one of the areas they are working on:

10,000 - 15,000 bags of heather brash spread
10km geo-textiles laid
Hundreds of tons of lime, seed, fertiliser applied
Gully blocking 1,000 heather bale dams and 1700 stone dams (over one year)

This project has now been running to 10 years and I'm guessing it is probably the biggest and longest-running project making use of helicopters that the UK has ever seen.

Search | Moors for the Future (http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/search/node/helicopter)

[helimo]

Dear Rotorheads,
I need your help to answer a customer request for a spray job against mosquitos. I have never been engaged in ag ops befor and have to make an offer to spray against mosquitos.
The customer is askaing for a pesticide which in not harmfull to fish and bees. Does this exist ?
I want to use a 350b2. Which spray gear can you recommend ? Does anyone have a used one with EASA certification for sale ?
What is an average area you can spray per hour if fuel and spray liquids are available on a truck on the job site.

I am thankfull for all kinds of information.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Mainly for 2054 way back in 2012 .... My apologies if the Dennis was the one for me as I haven't looked into this thread for a while. Even if not, the following may help.

Oddly enough, I've just returned from the SA Air Force Base at Waterkloof where I was tasked to display MD's 530F alongside the Enstrom 480B. Had a fab week flying three or four times a day for the period of the show for over 100,000 spectators I'm told. The local MD/ENSTROM distributor, Safomar PTY has also purchased an FX crop spraying version for local Ag work.

Some of the 'oldies' here will know that my firm of Spoonair Ag services operated three Enstrom Turbo models in the role giving us a chemical lift of 650lbs or whatever the EU guys call it these days. We used the Agrinautics wet and dry gear which gave a 30 foot swath width or 36 feet with the approved boom extensions. The dry gear dispersal was via a rotary impeller from a Vicon hopper. Using mostly New Zealand pilots and an Aussie, we averaged 120 acres an hour per aircraft, which at £4 an acre was decent money in those days. (1980s)

I have an old 30 minute film of our equipment calibration work and subsequent spraying and spreading which is now on DVD and I'll be happy to produce the odd DVD copy for potential users. I've asked this before, but if Dave Cook is still on the site, please make contact as my SA customer has a pilot/instructor requirement for the Pretoria area.

And for any interested in seeing the MD 530F display, a couple of the Waterkloof videos are now on You Tube along with my Enstrom 480B gentle ladylike display. Or just dial up my name to view the list.

Take care all and just to say this particular COF is still a flyin.' Dennis K.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Just a quick PS ... Can anyone tell me what happened to the ULV and CDA work that was becoming available when I quit the spraying scene. An average dose would be around one pint per acre I believe. (ideal for the very light helicopters) Thanks in anticipation. Dennis Kenyon.

[catseye]

Dennis,
ULV is used in Oz for cotton generally at night in fixed wing.
bit of video

Aerial Crop Dusting - Australia - YouTube

[Subaru]

The top left image is G-APSL with John Odlin in the picture the helicopter caught fire in flight when the gas tank blew up and jammed the controls, and it happened April 19th 1960 in the Dominican Republic out of Waltario I was the pilot and the year before in Panama G-APNI tail rotor failure out of Puerto Armuelles, and I was flying it too. Not injured in either.

[Downwind Lander]

.
Fire fighting

Interesting post from Wildpilot above. If there is anyone who could assist in the UK's midlands with the current Saddleworth Moor fires, then I reckon they will be treated like heroe by Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service. Who has aerial crop dusting gear which cold be brought into service?

[OvertHawk]

.
Fire fighting

Interesting post from Wildpilot above. If there is anyone who could assist in the UK's midlands with the current Saddleworth Moor fires, then I reckon they will be treated like heroe by Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service. Who has aerial crop dusting gear which cold be brought into service?

Helicopters with Bambi Buckets have already been used on that fire. There are a number of operators in the UK with fire-bucket capability who would be able to assist the Fire Service / Land Owner with this fire if someone is prepared to pay for it. And therein lies the sticking point I imagine.