Cornet Wales (Prince Harry)

[letsgoandfly]

Does anyone else out there feel that possible service of Prince Harry in Iraq has been getting far too much media coverage? What about the rest of the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and the work they're doing? What about the repatriations of those who have died on this Government's latest misadventure? I know we're downsizing but it's not a one man Army surely? Either he goes and and that's that or he doesn't and he sticks to his promise to leave. Just wondered if anyone else was getting as sick as I am!

[craigJ]

Yes I completely agree... he signed his name on the papers so there should be no question as to whether he goes :ugh: . The only thing I do wonder is if he received his commission simply because he is royalty? In which case, he could be a hopeless incompetent :} .

[MINself]

Personally I don't give a monkies about whether Harry is getting p***y about not being allowed to serve in Iraq, but all this extra publicity surrounding his units deployment will make the soldiers he is so concerned about leading all that more at risk from trophy hunting insurgents. Good luck all those deploying :ok:

[airborne_artist]

There is the valid argument that his scalp will be much sought-after by the insurgents, and so all his squadron/regt will be on the receiving end of even higher numbers of attacks/IEDs, which does make the risk to them all much higher.

Did they sign on to be such a target? - probably not.

[The Swinging Monkey]

letsgoandfly

Yes I agree with you also, I'm sick of hearing about it.
I think he should have just gone out there and got on with it - endex. Unfortunately, all this hype from the media about will he? won't he? when will he go? when will he come back? has frankly been the cause of all of this.
He should have gone, without the media or the press or the public knowing about it and got on with the job, if that's what he wants. Maybe when he got back, something quiet and sensible could have been released to the press along the lines of 'hey you lot 'Arry's back from Iraq' Hoorah!

TSM

[ZH875]

But Harry wants to fight, ......... lets face it, he has had plenty of practice, but maybe he is scared that AQI might hit back unlike newspaper photographers.


Anyway, who :mad: cares.

Just hope the poor lads he 'commands' stay safe, and ALL return home Safe and in one piece.

[Corrona]

Folks, think about it...he's already there, has been for a while. In that environment the bad guy wouldn't spot him from anyone else and because the baddies understandably would view him as juicy target worth putting an extra effort in to, the best way of throwing them of the scent would be to fuel a media debate as to whether he should go or not - thereby implying that he isn't already...

[Winch-control]

Whilst it raises the profile of the forces in Iraq, then surely it is a good thing? If he does deploy, Iraq is a safe bet for the front pages. If he doesn't, then unless something happens, he will be remembered as the little upstart that he is. Of course he can also exercise the option to resign his commission, and wait for JPA to sort out his payments....

[Tigs2]

Corrona

So who was it watching Liverpool and Chelsea (with Chelsea) yesterday:confused: :confused:

[Corrona]

there you go, the bloke at the game, was just another one of hewitt's kids - if you couldn't tell the difference how could them them lot hope to from ???yds??

[sharmine]

I think you have missed the point. Like you, we in the military have always appreciated the fact that our Royaltiy join the military and take part. In fact kings lead the charge in medievil times. I would welcome his participation in Iraq if it wasn't for the form of warfare we are currently involved in and if it wouldn't be such a political windfall for our enemy. If he goes to Iraq, the soldiers he serves with will be at greater risk than if he didn't. Do their parents, wives and children desrerve that?

I believe he really wants to serve but also believe his serving will be of great concern to those who have familly members that serve with him.

Had this situation not received the media coverage that it has then the matter may not have arised.

Sharmine

[Ken Scott]

It seems to me that the insurgents are already going all out for our people in Iraq, so there probably isn't much 'extra' risk for the troops that Harry commands.

He is a commissioned officer, he is trained & ready, & should go - to not do so would be to imply that his life is worth more than any other & therefore too valuable to risk out there. Yes, it would be a coup for the insurgents if he was killed, wounded or taken hostage, but it's probably no more likely to happen to him than any other serviceman out there. The Royal Family have always served in the military, as they should do, & they should not be above being put in harm's way for their country.

It would be good to see some of the politicians' kids in uniform!

[samuraimatt]

Well that is you lot told again.

BTW Brandnew I think your spell checker is broken.

The mere fact that Harry is sering in the army raises our profile immeasurably, and reminds people of the daily efforts made by the armed forces.

Oh, you also forgot to put "treatment" after appalling.

the appalling of our wounded:ok:

[MINself]

Brandnew, I doubt any of what you are saying is anything other than your idealist opinion. Maybe you should of preceeded your tirade of drivel with IMHO?

You cannot possibly know the level of increased risks to those soldiers serving alongside Harry and IMHO I doubt they appreciate the extra risk that the General Haigh characters seem willing to dismiss as part of serving in the army, even though its alongside Harry.

[MReyn24050]

I fully agree with all you say at Post #11. Why cant the media just leave the guy alone. As for giving these b******** spouting all this s*** of what they will do to him airtime,whose bl**** side is the BBC on?

[Tigs2]

Brandnew

You still haven't got it right have you

The moronic and bizarre claims that Harry recieved his commission because he is a member of the royal family, and the pathetic statements discouting his parentage are not becoming of serving members of the armed forces.

You said to your last spelling corrections offered

I've amended my entry thanks your PAM101 insert (I looked for reference to those silly cartoons you put in your post, but have yet to find anything...)

Anything else that you'd like to add reference Cornet Wales?
Today 00:01



Yes, instead of correcting/deleting your errors why don't you delete your crappy comment

P.S. Before I forget sharmine, if you want a spell-checker, I can send you one.

Use it yourself first if your going to comment on others.

People who live in glass houses......:= :=

[parabellum]

Well, if this is going down to the vote then mine goes to Brandnew, well said IMHO!

[Release-Authorised]

Brandnew, I too agree with you. HRH is a qualified officer and as such has "signed on" with the rest of us. I would be interested to hear the comments of the mother of Prince Harry's replacement should the Prince not be allowed to deploy. We just need to media to back off.....

I also usually find that those people who resort to personal insult have lost the argument, so judging by some comments on this thread it appears that you are right.

:D

[A and C]

In my opinion Mr Wales should stay with his unit regardless of the posting, however the MoD is in a no win situation on the spin doctoring front what ever happens.

If they don't send him to Basra then the media will say he is getting better treatment than the average servicman.

If one of his troop gets killed the press will say that he was the target and encourage the greaving relatives to publicly go after the MoD, Queen and who ever else in the system the press can think of to give a hard time on the grounds that Mr Wales being present created "extra" danger for the others in his troop.

The worst situation for UK PLC is if he is taken prisoner, that would be a PR disaster for the MoD that would run and run.

If Mr Wales was unfortunate enough to be killed the PM would have to answer to the Queen (that would be a very interesting conversation that I hope won't happen).

That is enough of putting the goverment type PC attitude, in my opinion Mr Wales is correct when he says that he would loose credability if he is withdrawn from the deployment, this is also true of UK PLC if the goverment is commited to this policy in Iraq then is should show the world that commitment and and be ready to endure what ever happens as a result of that policy.

The question is will the goverment have the same amount of courage when facing the press as British (and other) servicemen show each day in Iraq and Afganistan?.............. I think not!

[Wyler]

He takes his Mums shilling so he should go.

However, the increased threat to his Unit cannot be ignored and so is it really fair on them?

Any comparison to Andrews efforts does not count, IMHO. He fought in a War that had a clearly defined and identifiable enemy. Also, it enjoyed the overwhelming support of the British Public. None of that is the case in this latest adventure. So, as well as the increased threat, his participation could well do further harm to the already diminishing support for the Royal Family in this country. Personally, I think it is high time the Royals found some other train set to play with other than the Military. Some of them treat their uniforms like dressing up clothes anyway.

Hat on.

[letsgoandfly]

Just to clear something up... I respect the decision of Cornet Wales to serve in Iraq and didn't start this thread to give him a hard time. What I am concerned about is the amount of publicity it is getting compared to the lack of publicity the rest of the Armed Forces are getting for serving on operations there. Do the media (and therefore the general public) hear about the lack of equipment and manpower on a day to day basis? Do they know we're having to make do with very old aircraft? Do they know about Government penny-pinching that could potentially put our lives on the line? Probably not. That's why I started this, not to give a soldier a hard time.

[Wyler]

Letsgoandfly.
Sadly, the answer to most of your questions is 'No'. The wider population is far more concerned with paying their Mortgage, finding a Dentist, getting a Doctors appointment, finding a decent school for their kids or working out which credit card to use this week. The Military do not figure highly in their daily lives, indeed, more and more actually seem to think that current Military Ops, under the direction of Mr Blair, is adding to their woes - Air Travel, fuel prices, militants.
I am a Governor at a High School in this area and they have just introduced 'Uniformed Service' as a BTEC type qualification. Out of a student population of 1100, they have had 23 applicants. It is not a popular addition with the majority of teachers. Furthermore, I have yet to find a picture of the Queen anywhere on the premises. As to playing the National Anthem........:*
The times they are a changing.:(

[GANNET FAN]

At the risk of getting booed or jeered, I suggest you could do worse that read the leader in the Telegraph under Rules of Engagement. Or at least try to read it objectively. I think it covers the situation clearly.

[Hill Walker]

brandnew,

Agree with your comments 100%.

Tigs2,


Use it yourself first if your going to comment on others.



People who live in glass houses......


Agree with you on that second bit...

HW

[wingcmdr]

Brandnew

I am 100% in agreement with your comments.

There would seem to be a bit of LMF amongst some, who have a lot to say but have very little to offer, in the way of support.

To all over there, keep up the good work whoever you are! :ok:

Cheers

[GasFitter]

Will the service at BZN improve, or indeed, highlight the fragile nature of RAF AT Fleet?:O

[reallydeskbound]

I have no great interest in whether Harry serves in Iraq or not but what I can say is that the MOD PR machine is to blame for the media feeding frenzy that surrounds this decision. Why was he not permitted to deploy quietly with no fanfare? His troop could have been deployed anywhere in the world on paper - to satisfy the medias unending curiosity - and then ended up in Iraq, served their time and returned - when an annoucement could have been made!

Getting back to the debacle of the MOD press office - their tacit support for the Navy hostage sales campaign, their attempt to bury the news on 6 Sqn's early demise makes me wonder where our leader are getting their advice from? All I can say is that the uniformed element within that particular department has been decimated in recent years as the civil service (note the lack of capitals) disestablishes military positions and fills them with their own form of ineptitude. The lack of military expertise, brainpower, and experience is sadly lacking in many areas now - and it is irrecoverable.

[Tappers Dad]

Dear Mr Letsgoandfly
I am doing my best to raise public awareness about the lack of equipment and manpower.
But it does need some whistle blowers to get the media and the public to sit up and take notice, many wisper in corners but few shout it from the roof tops!!!
As for Harry I don't care if he goes or stays but the top brass should have discussed his possible deployment before he started his training and not after.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

brandnew, for my part (notwithstanding your one man JSP101 impersonation), you were doing fine up to; In essence, there are far more newsworthy stories than the upcoming deployment of Cornet Wales: the total lack of funding for essential UOR projects; the shameful waste of money on such projects as Typhoon, T45 and the Nimrod MK4; the appalling treatment of our wounded; the 18 month delay on mineproof vehicles for Basra.

I would have hoped that you weren't yet another "can't see beyond the current tribal hostilities" experts. Look at the bigger picture as there are some potent bad buggers out there who are lying low just now. OK; for various reasons, the Typhoon and Nimrod 4 are late and over budget but we will probably still need them and the T45s.

My simple view is that the Prince Harry has been commissioned and joined his Unit. If they deploy then so should he. If he takes a hit, it will be very sad but hardly a national catastrophe. I have seen the responsibility for making his Unit a prize target argument in many of the Posts here. That may be so and we need the Media to wind in their necks for the duration of his Tour. Secondly, why are we convincing ourselves that it can only have one big negative impact? I'm sure the likes E Rommel would have taken such a disadvantage and turned to an advantage. Of course Johnny RH will want to capture the lad or at least kill him. To take randomness away from either, he will have to make additional effort and probably in greater concentration. He will probably show a greater presence and take greater and bolder risks. He's up against a trained and disciplined force that will capitalise on any mistakes and recklessness. Instead of viewing it as intolerable risk and overwhelming odds, lets look for a target rich environment.

I do hope that he and his return alive and in one piece.

[Pontius Navigator]

The moronic and bizarre claims that Harry recieved his commission because he is a member of the royal family, and the pathetic statements discouting his parentage are not becoming of serving members of the armed forces.

Brandnew is coming across as a bit of a **** critising the lack of a spell chucker. Perhaps it would be as wel to check the glass in the greenhouse first.

[nav attacking]

Surely this is why we actually have a line to the throne. Let him lead by example. If IRAQ is good enough for everyone else then he should deploy. Unfortunately the media debate is only heightening the threat to the rest of his unit.
Just as an aside and not wishing to bring in any form of debate about The Crusades. Wasn't Richard the Lionheart the last Royal to deploy into this theatre during operations and look at him, he was at the top of the line!!

[nav attacking]

Oops for a moment I thought this thread was about Prince Harry and his deployment to Iraq!!

[samuraimatt]

PNAV - Thank you for that. Please feel free to go through the rest of posts correcting my spelling. I'll even send you some of my staff writing to red pen if you want... Last edited by brandnew : Today at 13:23. Reason: wasn't quite finished!

You still haven't finished. You missed another word. This time it is "my" which should go before posts. I bet you wish you hadn't mentioned spell checkers now. Look I have even used red.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

brandnew. I do, of course, see your point on conflicting programme immediacy and what look like money sponges. That would be a whole new Thread on user requirements, procurement and contract management.

The argument about the Prince's presence putting others at risk is using the same psychology as the passive smoking and 4 x 4s hurt children lobbies. As I said before, why not stop binding about it and turn it to an advantage?

Another point that we should consider is that if it's deemed too dangerous and he doesn't go, Johnny RH has scored another instant victory. Where's our national backbone disappearing to. We can't all become MPs or health and safety officials can we?

[Tigs2]

Brandnew
I agree with your statements concerning Harry.

Pleased be advised that nobody wishes to check your spelling, it was you that detracted from a sensible argument in the first place by offering someone else a spell checker, which is ok if you do it yourself, but is a bit arsey if you don't, which you don't. I don't which is why i don't offer spell checkers.

[pulse1]

I ask this very much as a layman but, with a bit of foresight, would it not have been better to have trained him for a less personal role in Afghanistan?

It appears to me that the fighting there is on a much bigger scale where the Taliban would be unlikely to know who they were fighting and his presence would make little difference to them or his fellow soldiers. If he is admirably determined to do his bit, this could be the answer.

[letsgoandfly]

Pulse, it doesn't matter what he's trained as, or really where he goes. The fact that he wants to go and do his bit for his country is very admirable. My point, or complaint, is why the media circus? If you or I went out there they wouldn't care, in fact, they only seem to care when deaths give them a front page story (for a day or two). His deployment is in most of tomorrows papers (Sat 28 Apr) instead of worthy stories into the Armed Forces and the problems that we are suffering. The continued speculation probably won't help us look good to the public either.

[GreenKnight121]

Let's follow the "increased risk to his mates" "reasoning" for a minute.

Yes, the baddies will try to "get Harry" extra hard because of who he is.

They will also want to try extra hard to "get" the sons/daughters of multi-millionares, bankers, oil executives, high-level politicians, Generals/Admirals... ad nauseum... if they learn they are there, and can get good pics to identify them with.

Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?

Are the only people we can send into the fighting "those who will not bring increased risk to their mates"?



That means that the poor & unknown are the only ones who will be allowed to fight our wars, and to die for their country.

Nice choice, isn't it?




Cut the crap... the bleeding-hearts have been screaming for the "sons of privelige" to be placed at risk of their parent's policies for decades, and now they complain when they get their wish granted?

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


The only ones in this situation who have my respect, or to whom I will pay any attention, are Cornet Wales and his mates. :D:D:D
Bravo Zulu to them all!

[green granite]

Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?


No just stop the newspapers from publishing the fact that they are there. Then of course somebody would scream about censorship.

[Capt H Peacock]

I would express the same concern for any of our servicemen who are sent into battle without adequate protection. However, why this trained young officer should not be put in the same theatre of operations as his classmates escapes me. Why would he not lead his men into battle?

This administration cares nothing then if for their own vainglorious public perception. If one of ‘the celebs’ was killed in Tony’s War, what would the Daily Hatemail say about them? And what if he came back with a meritorious war-record? What kind of message will that send to the socially re-engineered fluffy pink Republic of Blairistan? A warmonger as heir to the throne?

This man must do his duty by his country, his grandmother, and his men. In fact if the Iranians insurgents want to target him, then lets get some Global Hawk coverage, follow the trail back, and send them some Green Granite.

[parabellum]

News reports here are now suggesting that the insurgents have put a bounty on Harry's head - something in the order of $1Mil., I think.

[SPIT]

Hi
According to the press yesterday (FRI) Harry stated " I AM NOT AFRAID TO DIE". What about the poor crews of the vehicles ? I always thought that an OFFICER is supposed to think of the men under his command and Not be selfish and thik ONLY about themselves.:confused: :confused:

[expedite08]

To be honest he needs to pull his finger out and grow up. He's meant to be a commissioned Officer, a leader, he prances around over here falling out of clubs getting in to this that and the other trouble. If that was one of us we would be up before the CO quicker than a bullet flies! Even in training i think he had his fair share of mr meners (excuse the spelling!!) Again, I'm sure after that any one of us would have been out the gate!

This deployment will hopefully change things and see him come back with honours, a new man and hopefully a bit more mature.

Best of luck to him

[JessTheDog]

It's the fault of the Treasury. Too many cutbacks. If they had left a regiment or two spare, then those units blessed with the Royal presence could simply have been sent somewhere non-dangerous.

This is also down to the government's desire to avoid the slightest chance of the very bad news that any unfortunate incident involving this particular officer would generate. I am sure that HM believes he should do his bit, the rest of them as well - after all, he is the "spare" (and ginger at that). However, the spinners in Whitehall must have twitching sphincters at the thought of something happening to Hazza and the media disaster that would follow.

[Wiley]

I haven’t waded through all the posts on this thread, so apologies if this had already been said.

In an ideal world, Cornet Wales would complete his tour and the fact that he had been on active service not announced until he was (hopefully) safely home. That would be the best for both him and probably even moreso, the poor sods who’ll have to serve alongside him. But five minutes listening to Sky News would convince anyone that’s not going to happen. If the MoD tried something like that, some cretin looking for news scoop would announce every detail of the deployment down to Harry’s jockstrap size the moment he could learn it, including the grid co-ordinates of the bunker he was to sleep in and the khazi he’ll be taking his morning bog in.

Which led me to thinking that surely the military in Iraq could put this whole Harry business to their advantage? Having high profile people on the battlefield isn’t new. From Alexander the Great to Shakespeare’s Henry the Fifth, doubles (and triples and quadruples) have been used to confuse the enemy and have them expend major effort in trying to kill or capture the king. From the times of the ancient Greeks, it was common practice for more than one knight to dress in the king’s armour to confuse the enemy. (Anyone remember poor old Eric Bana aka Hector thinking he’s got Brad Pitt in the first reel of ‘Troy? - or was it the other way around?)

Surely having Harry (and a half dozen doubles) in theatre could be used to flush out as many bad guys as are willing to present themselves for slaughter? It goes without saying that there will be a huge force in place to ensure Harry doesn’t find himself in a Third Retreat from Kabul situation, so why not put that force to good use and troll him (and his many doubles) past the bad guys and invite attack – on our terms?

[tacr2man]

Wiley,
your expecting a bit much from the selection of morons that we have running (I use the term very loosely) this country !:ugh:
It would appear from all the mistakes (''that we will learn from'' ) that these chosen ones make that they dont have the ability to think inside the box let alone outside it:ok:

As for press integrity an oxymoron surely:confused:

[Bunker Mentality]

So what if the insurgents know he's in theatre? It's too late to worry about that now. The application of half-decent OPSEC would mean that the insurgents would have no idea where he is at any particular time, and they should therefore be unable to tgt him specifically. However, they are already ramping up their activity again, and that's nothing to do with Prince Harry.

Didn't Napoleon say something alnong the lines of: 'the moral is to the physical as 10 is to 1'? This issue is about political will and moral courage. If the insurgents can dissuade our leaders (through our own media:yuk:) from sending Harry because they are afraid of the political consequences of his death or wounding in action, the insurgents will score a major propaganda victory. More seriously still, they will prove that we do not have the moral wherewithal to defeat, or even control, the insurgency.

If the Government and Service Chiefs want the British Armed Forces to be taken seriously in future, they must prove that they have the will to win and determination to fight this war properly. We've already suffered numerous setbacks in this area, most recently through the capture and release of Cornwall's boarding party. Our reputation for military effectiveness and determination is an intangible, but nevertheless priceless, asset - one which is worth real sacrifice to retain.

An officer's men are, indeed, one of his highest priorities - but not his highest. In war, winning is the highest priority - and it is utterly peurile to suppose that winning can be achieved at no cost. In the case at hand, winning back some our tattered reputation is what matters, and that can be achieved here by showing that we are prepared to pay the butcher's bill.
That's what I think, anyway.

BM

[letsgoandfly]

We could win back some of our 'tattered reputation' by the media showing our soldiers on the frontline, doing their jobs and trying to help the Iraqis and Afghans. The speculation in the media regarding Prince Harry surely only makes the upper echelons of our command structure look like doddering fools, which the public then assumes applies to the whole of the Armed Forces. I have the utmost respect for all our troops out there, but I'm serving. The general public's perception comes almost entirely from what they see and hear in the media which, at the moment, makes us look like fools.

[Bunker Mentality]

letsgoandfly,

I completely agree, but I think that's a slightly different issue.

BM

[barnstormer1968]

Many Ppruner's have served, or are serving in Iraq/Afghanistan. There are also many complaints or gripes on this site about poor conditions, and long separations for family and loved ones.
IMHO these deployment's are too regular, and many don't see any benefit to the UK from anything WE are doing in Iraq/Afghanistan. But in the true professional British military tradition, the men and women in our forces answer the call, and perform in a class of their own.
BUT, I can't help but think that I had been offered the chance not to risk life and limb, then it may have been much harder to want to go!
I'm not sure if I feel this way due to being a civilian for some time now, or maybe I'm suffering LMF, or whatever reason!. Certainly, when I was younger, I would have wanted to be with my squadron/friends, and to do my bit. But as I say above, would it have been different if I didn't have to go.

IMHO. All credit to Harry, for stepping up to the plate, and having watched both Harry and William on TV recently, Harry seems very at ease and natural in uniform. It seems harry may also have a natural flair for banter!

PLEASE NOTE. I have not offered a spell checker, or criticised anyone's grammar here. so let me off if I have missed a few thing's
Barnstormer1968

[WorkingHard]

Who is driving the media scrum? Clarence House? Buckingham Palace? MOD? It all seems abit strange that the first two have not raised the usual objection to "press intrusion"

[Robert Cooper]

It's a pity that this ever got into the media in the first place. The fact that Harry is going to Iraq should never have been released to the press.

Bob C

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Bob C, lets face it, journos aren't stupid. You can't really hide the unit that he's serving with, someone will find out. Then announcement that said unit deploys to iraq.... 2+2=4 and young harry isn't to be found anywhere abouts... Not exactly rocket science!

(BTW to all those that slate him for being found making a fool of himself in clubs/pubs/bars, he's significantly better behaved than most of the country's youth today, so don't knock it!)

[eagle 86]

A few of you are a bit naive re the media. My close association shows me that if there is no story they will make up the story. The facts of this story probably come from a few wannabes with a very vague association with his circle who believe they think they know what he might have said - give that crap to the media and you've got a story they can milk for weeks on end - there is very little truth in the "pages" of today's "meeja"!
I say good on the bloke - he joined - he trained - there's a war on - he wants to go. My son did all this and he's over there. Only difference is my son is a prince in my eyes only!
And for those serving officers who imbibe perhaps a little too much occasionally and say/do things you may regret - sorry but news about you does not sell papers!
GAGS E86

[Fat Reggie]

There was a time when Kings led their armies into battle. I am touched by the young man's willingness to sacrifice so much for Queen and Country. The bastards know he is coming and they will be gunning for him and all units like his will undoubtedly suffer casualties because of it. The die is cast. The world will be watching. All eyes will be on the young Prince and his youthful exuberance.

Plant your flag young Harry. Let the heathen know they are opposed by a Prince and grandson of a most extraordinary and gracious Queen of the most extraordinary Monarchy of all time. The heathen will surely not understand, and, let them be the worse for it, but the world will!

Long live His Royal Highness Prince Harry!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I see some eminent defence experts, Messrs Portillo and Nott, have been lining up to resist the Prince's deployment sharp and sandyside http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/27/nharry27.xml . What folly it would be to ignore them, eh?

If only we could shut the sodding Media up for the duration

[Polikarpov]

If only we could shut the sodding Media up for the duration

Indeed, the sensible thing would have been to place a gag on the media reporting anything to do with Harry's operational life from day one, including what units he may or may not have been attached to.

Was never going to happen though.

[joe2812]

Anyone think he'd have even made it to the Sandhurst assessment stage on his bum A levels in art history and underwater basket weaving?

Reckon Joe Public would get in on those qualifications?

Guess he must have interviewed pretty well at the local Windsor AFCO.

[ZH875]

Best he takes an iPod with him.




Is called 'Cornet' because he likes to give photograhers a good licking?

[SilsoeSid]

I totally agree that Harry should serve wherever his troops are.
I'm all for the days of royalty leading the men into battle,

"Cry God for Harry, England and Saint George!"

However and it's a big one, with $625,000 on his head, I'm sure there will be people hell bent on getting to him and never mind anyone in the vicinity!

All well and good him wanting to go and do his job, but for everyone else, like us armchair generals saying he joined up and should go and do his job like every other squaddie, think of his comrades.

I think I would be really peeved if I knew a member of my family had been killed because of no other aim of the enemy than to get the Prince.

If he was to stay in London and perhaps show some moral human courage and compassion, in a role such as families officer, (without of course nights out for the duration of the tour and 'trying to kop off with the lonely ones at home') supporting those left at home and showing a compasionate side. He will still be fighting with his troops, protecting their families against the ravishes of time, lonely time and knowing that your family member is at risk, while those who decided to go to war rest peacefully in their beds at home with their families with them

I admire his commitment and loyalty, but for the protection of his comrades I think not this time.

[ZH875]

I think I would be really peeved if I knew a member of my family had been killed because of no other aim of the enemy than to get the Prince.How would you feel if a member of your family who was sent out in Cornet Wales's place, was killed?

The only people who should not be sent to Iraq/Afghanistan are THE PRESS. Deploy the :mad: parasites to the gates of Chez Beckham in Los Angeles for the duration. Our guys would be a lot safer then.

[robin]

>>>The only people who should not be sent to Iraq/Afghanistan are THE PRESS. Deploy the parasites to the gates of Chez Beckham in Los Angeles for the duration. Our guys would be a lot safer then.<<

No. I've got a better idea. Let's send the press and politicos for a stint in the front line. Make sure the editors and ministers are first at the front.

[SilsoeSid]

As far the press are concerned, if past incidents are anything to go by, Sky will make up where he is, the enemy will bomb said base, Sky will report that he wasn't there but further up country, enemy will bomb base up country and so on...

By acting as a media forward observation officer, the media will eventually succeed in getting Harry injured at the expense of every other man in theatre.


If the press can be ordered not to report where the Bliar family are on holiday, surely the same can be done in this case.

[SilsoeSid]

How would you feel if a member of your family who was sent out in Cornet Wales's place, was killed?

Based on that silly argument, anyone in the unit not going would get the blame for any casualties. :ugh:


I think I would feel more bitter about it if I knew they were killed because of an all out offensive to get Harry!

[eagle 86]

Yes, the terrorists/insurgents what ever you like to call have got you lot beaten! What crap statements are being made here. A little bit of waffle from a bunch of towelheads and you all start diving under the bed clothes! Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, we are there and best we just get on with it. Everyone serving there is in mortal danger including my son and soon young Harry. If you think the towelheads are going to get Harry any more easily than any other digger then you can't have much regard for your troops. Let the lad serve - maybe it will help to portray the "family" in a better light. Or am I talking to a bunch of republicans?
GAGS
E86

[midsomerjambo]

You have to assume that he, his family and the Army are all happy about him deploying - it's not as if the possibility should come as a shock to any of them, so if they're bothered, why did they let him join? Anyone who expects the media to keep shtum about it is living in a nice little world, it's just a pity it's not the real one.

pba_target - Assuming you have some, I take it you would include your own kids in your sweeping generalisation regarding HW being significantly better behaved than most of the country's youth today. Personally, I am quite happy about the behaviour of my kids and their friends, which is significantly better than this young man's.

eagle_86 - What's the point of the jibe about republicans? I'm a republican and proud of it. I see my joining up oath as not very different to my marriage vows (the Queen part of the former and the God part of the latter I mean) - necessary to say under the circumstances, but essentially meaningless. You can be a serviceman and a republican at the same time, it doesn't make you any less effective.

MSJ

[DaveO'Leary]

Thought Maj. James Hewitt might have some say on this matter:suspect:

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Midsomer, thankfully most of the folk I know have similarly well behaved kids. However, mrs Target is barking enough to be a teacher, and has spent quite some time at inner city schools in both B'ham and Leeds.... I'll say no more.

[midsomerjambo]

Target - Mrs. MSJ is similarly devoid of marbles and teaches physics, but I guess Trowbridge isn't such a bad place to do that if you really must ;)

MSJ

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Haha nice one.... I'm just waiting for mrs Target to develop an overwhelming compelling desire to teach in east london somewhere, then the ticks in boxes will be complete, she'll be happy and can settle for dry-stone walling in the lake district or something to pay her debt to society....

Damn these women and their need to feel useful.... would never catch me having such thoughts!

Anyway, back on topic, probably worth comparing the recent "Drunken UAS antics" (I forget the exact title and frankly it's far too early in the morning to even consider using the search feature...) to tabloid articles of Harry. Maybe we could set up some kind of points system?

[Zoom]

I'm all for our leaders leading our troops in battle. So give Blair a shoulderful of pips and stripes, an honorary rank and stick him in the desert with a tin hat, a SA-80 and as many bullets as he can carry. His sons can help if they wish, and they can use Prescott as a (sub-human) shield. Then let's see him sort out the mess he has created.

[Heliringer]

Fat Reggie, you say you respect our Kings and the such leading us into battle, be told mate that Young Harry will never leave the gates of his base, it's the others in the regiment that might pay the price.
Cheers
Ringer

[Fat Reggie]

Hellringer

Well, I suppose the question remains, will the Brave soldiers of Great Briton fight when the fighting is so...unfair? Or will they...how you say....whinge?

Let me also say, that I have been against this war in Iraq from the outset. No politician on earth can change my opinion.

However, should Her Majesty the Queen ask the people, (me), of America to support this God Awful war on her trust alone, I would instantly do so and without question. Such is the respect and admiration I have for this magnificent Queen!

I only wish, that I (we) had this Queen as our sovereign to love because our government has left us confused, cynical, numb and void of patriotic feeling. Not to mention at each other's throats. We have no one to turn to in our dilemma, no one to trust. Our government has failed us, our "president", a laughing stock.

The British people are fortunate to be able to place their love of country upon such a magnificent Monarch, while we are left with the cold tattered shred of self admiration.

Long Live Her Majesty the Queen!

[eagle 86]

MSJ,
No jibe intended - there are republicans here and there - most are anti-monarchy regardless of what the Royals do. Not interested in creating a royalist/republican debate. It is a system of government that in the main works.
GAGS
E86

[non iron]

Not so. l am a middle aged old fart who can`t believe what Bush`s numpty has done to the UK. For the people fighting out there with minimum resources, as a result of political shysters, - " what`s in this for me, Oh we`ll have both flats then said Cherie " - you have my admiration.
Why do it ?


l will go away now. But l`m not alone, sorry peeps.

[airborne_artist]

"Prince Harry will not be sent to Iraq, the head of the British Army has said. The Prince had previously stated that he wanted to be involved in active service with his unit.
But the Chief of the General Staff, General Sir Richard Dannatt, has confirmed the Prince will not go with his regiment, the Blues and Royals."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6663053.stm

[hobie]

Have to confess I've always thought popping in and out of London Nightclubs at every hour of the day/night (as all young men will do, if they get the chance) presents far more of a terrorist risk to his wellbeing than a posting to Iraq ......

I noticed a comment by an eminent commentator this evening ..... "he must serve by not serving" ...... sounds a good idea to me for everyone, when it comes to Iraq and Afghanistan ...... :D

[Taildragger67]

Reggie,

She's not a bad old stick. I hope I'm still powering along at 80+ (or, 86, like Phil). :ok:

Anyway...

I sometimes recall, back to the 'good old days' when various GOP talking heads were saying how much damage ol' Bill had done to 'the office of the President' after getting his cigar smoked in the Oval Office. :}

Well, that was FL350 compared to what the current pack of :mad: s have done to it!

[JessTheDog]

Is that why all his chums were wearing Tshirts emblazoned with "I'm Harry"? So they wouldn't have to go? ;)

[Colonal Mustard]

Must say i`m dissappointed in the decision..........as Mrs mustard says, (he signed up for it):E

[parabellum]

In an interview on TV down here a 'military expert' has said that latest intelligence shows that the insurgents have already formed small squads who's sole task it was to 'Get Harry'.

I believe it is fair to say they would have been suicide type operations and would have inflicted many more casualties than just Harry and because they were suicide missions no withdrawal plan would be required.
Harry would just be the catalyst for a very ferocious and deadly assault on his unit that would be out of proportion to the threat they pose to the insurgents.

The decision, in the end, is not just about Harry's safety but about saving what had the potential to be a bloodbath bringing misery on a wide scale.

[Oldandgrey]

Personally I believe that the media have a lot to answer for on this one, maybe they should have not been so quick to splash the fact that he was going in the first place and let him get on with it. Once he had completed his tour then release the story.

[green granite]

Well said Oldandgrey, Bring back the "D" notice I say.

[jayteeto]

Correct decision in my opinion. Could you imagine one of your kids serving next to him?? We would have needed new AT aircraft to cope with the body bags. He would have gone, unlike his RM quitting uncle. An impossible situation for Harry.

[Evening Star]

Personally I believe that the media have a lot to answer for on this one, maybe they should have not been so quick to splash the fact that he was going in the first place and let him get on with it. Once he had completed his tour then release the story.

Just popped up from Jet Blast to get the straight talking take on this, and must I say I thoroughly agree with O&G on this. As one person has already commented, 'the media did everything but give the registration number of his tank [sic]'. I feel sorry for the lad because it seems that his heart is in this job and now he is denied the chance to get on with the job he wants to do.

[A2QFI]

Hear Hear Oldandgrey and Evening Star. It is not his choice, he wants to go and his presence has been deemed inappropriate. The media have much to answer for in this. 24 hour rolling news progs full of mindless drivel and uninformed comment fobbed off as news. Don't get me started on Maddy overload - what about the BBCs Alan Johnson, missing for 9 weeks in Gaza?

[TheSmiter]

Lets be fair, lads, who honestly thought it was going to happen?

General Dannatt has made the right decision - one that should have been made a long time ago, like er, when Harry joined up. As many have said, his military career and any related deployments may have worked had the media treated him like a normal soldier, but, with the thirst for 24hr 'news' ( I use the term very loosely) that certainly was never going to happen.

Maybe Harry will now join his brother in the bizarre military job sharing carousel which has been created for Wills from the MoD's bumper book of alternative postings. Whatever!

In all of this fuss about Harry, spare a thought for the poor blighter who will now be parachuted in at short notice to do his job. I guess the Booze and Royals have a vast pool of Troop Commanders on a high state of readiness.

Finally, Hobie,have you received your royalties from the Daily Snail for your contribution to todays edition? Well done mate for being the only Pruner quoted amongst all the Arsers!

[Wiley]

If the world was like Hollywood - which it ain't - we'd find four months down the track that despite the announcement to the contrary, he went - unannounced - did 'is bit, and came home - the way it should have been done in the first place.

But this "ain't" Hollywood, and if the Army tried to pull something like that now, you could bet your next pay cheque that some (insert your favourite epithet) bottom-dweller "journalist" (or REMF) would have it splashed all over the world's media before he took his first shower in country - probably with the grid reference and number of the shower stall and his scheduled "time to ablute" included in the report.

[ExRAFRadar]

And how long do you reckon it would have been before before he appeard in some squadie's YouTube offering taken from his mobile phone if he had gone ?

In the age of video camera's as small as a matchbox I would suggest D notices are long past thier sell by date. Especially in such a chaotic place as Iraq at present.

[South Bound]

Just wonder where it goes from here. Can a young Lt have a career without the opportunity to deploy? Could he be promoted without operational experience?

Really don't see how, and IMHO he should resign his Commission.

Not suggesting this is in any way a lack of moral fibre on his part, rather that he has been put in an impossible position that makes his role fairly pointless. Shame he did not have the opportunity to show what he was made of though, it is good to see the princes working to earn some of the hugely priveleged lifestyle they are condemned to.

[Ballast]

So where in the statement does it say he will not go??

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6663347.stm for the text

Prince Harry will not deploy as a troop leader with his squadron

and

he will not be deploying with his troop

To me it does not say he will not go - it says he will not go with this troop.

I bet he will turn up in a "safe" role.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Some of you will have access to the defenceintranet and the MoD has made an UNCLAS statement on this matter. For the benefit of those without access, this is lifted direct from the MoD Home Page this morning;


General Dannatt said: "Over the last few weeks I have made a particular point of saying that I would keep under constant review my decision to deploy Prince Harry to Iraq with his Troop. As with any military operation, circumstances do change, and therefore so should decisions, if necessary". "I have decided today that Prince Harry will not deploy as a Troop Leader with his Squadron. I have come to this final decision following a further and wide round of consultation, including a visit to Iraq by myself at the end of last week". "There have been a number of specific threats – some reported and some not reported - which relate directly to Prince Harry as an individual. These threats place not only him but also those around him to a degree of risk that I now deem unacceptable. Now that I have decided that he will not be deploying with his Troop, the risks faced by his Battlegroup are no different to those faced by any other Battlegroup or other of our Servicemen in Iraq". "I have to add that a contributing factor to this increase in threat to Prince Harry has been the widespread knowledge and discussion of his deployment. It is a fact that this close scrutiny has exacerbated the situation and this is something that I wish to avoid in future". "Let me also make quite clear that as a professional soldier, Prince Harry himself will be extremely disappointed. He has proved himself both at Sandhurst and in command of his Troop during their training. I commend him for his determination and his undoubted talent – and I do not say that lightly. His soldiers will miss his leadership in Iraq, although I know his Commanding Officer will provide a highly capable substitute Troop Leader". "In conclusion, two further points: First, I have asked Prince Harry’s Commanding Officer to continue to develop Prince Harry’s professional career in the Army, but I am not prepared to speculate, either now or in the future, on what Prince Harry might be doing over the next few weeks, months and years". "Second, I pay tribute once again to the excellence and commitment of all our Servicemen deployed around the World and I thank them, and their families, for the way that they are doing their duty in the best traditions of the Armed Forces."


The MoD statement goes on to say;


This was a military decision based on a military assessment, taken by CGS. Clarence House, Buckingham Palace, 10 Downing Street and the Defence Secretary have been informed. Whilst MOD acknowledges that the security situation in Iraq is challenging and demanding for all our troops, this decision was taken as a result of the very specific threat to Prince Harry. This is not the first time that deployment plans for individuals have changed in the light of a specific threat. This does not mean that Prince Harry will never deploy. Both Prince Harry and his elder brother Prince William will continue to play a full role within their regiments, with future overseas deployments considered on a case-by-case basis. Lessons will be learnt from the widespread knowledge of Prince Harry’s deployment. CGS's preference is to say nothing or the absolute minimum about any future deployments of the Princes for reasons of operational security. Although some insurgents might try to paint this decision as a success for them, the reality is that UK operations in support of Iraq's government will continue, and deny them such a high value target. Prince Harry's troop will still deploy, commanded by a suitably qualified individual.


The man acknowledges that the Media have made matters impossible, as has open and loose debate. Whether that includes Pprune, ARRSE, RumRation and Goat (who could take that seriously?) is something we need to think about, I suppose.

[luoto]

And the media got their info Ct Wales planned deployment... direct from H.M.Gs spinmeisters at No.10 DS and MoD I am very reliably informed.

A bit of chaff, you may say, to help, err, steer the news headlines and agenda of the time.

[hobie]

Finally, Hobie,have you received your royalties from the Daily Snail for your contribution to todays edition? Well done mate for being the only Pruner quoted amongst all the Arsers!

Bugger ..... :)

I only get the Sunday Mail ...... :{