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airbusbatics
26th Apr 2007, 18:32
Can anyone recommend a reputable Independent Financial Adviser in Hong Kong, with whom you have had a good working relationship and found competent and impartial in their advice?



Mrs. Busbatics doesn't want me buying toys anymore, I'm being forced to put that hard earned cash to some use...:{

Thanks.

(PM me if you prefer)

FlexibleResponse
29th Apr 2007, 11:01
Reputable Financial Advisers in Hong Kong are as scarce as rocking horse sh1t.

Even in the best case they will charge you an arm and a leg by taking a percentage cut of your hard earned investments each and every year on a continuous basis.

Once I was in your exact position in CX wondering what I should do. I ended up attending lectures (with other CX pilots) that were given by an employee of Dr Doom (Marc Faber). This particular employee and gentleman was an ex-Ghurka Officer who had turned financial guru when he left the British Army. His stated mission was to educate pilots on how to invest by starting us with basic school economics and advancing through to stock assessment, warrants etc. For some reason, as an ex-military officer he felt a close affiliation with pilots that exhibited the discipline demanded by their profession, but did not have the time or inclination be become financially street-smart.

From time to time a student might ask if he could recommend a good Broker or financial adviser in Hong Hong. He would say Goddamn it man! You do not need one of these. What I am teaching you will allow you to advise yourself. It is that simple!

Over the course of the lectures we learned some very basic rules. These may not be verbatim, but pay attention anyway:

1. There are only four things that you can invest in; Cash (or cash like things such as bonds etc), Equities (shares etc), Property (or property like things) and Commodities (such as precious metals, works of art etc).

2. All of your long term investments should be in your end-user currency (ie if you are Aussie, your investment should be in Aussie dollars such as Aussie stocks or property if you intend to retire in Aus). This is because the exchange rate risk will prove to be too high in the long term.

3. If you want to play with the commodities, don't buy them, such as real gold etc. Instead buy shares in companies that produce gold etc. These companies are by definition experts in their products and have a much better chance of getting it right than you do.

4. Invest in bluechip stocks (top 100 stocks by size). Diversify and pick 10-20 of these stocks to spread your risk. This will save your ar$e if one company goes bad (eg Enron or AMP).

5. If you can't resist the urge to speculate or trade in speculative stocks, don't put more than a total of 5% of your portfolio into such ventures. In general you will lose 9 times out of 10.

6. Don't worry about the ups and downs of the market or try to pick the peaks or troughs to buy in or sell. Invest on a regular basis every month. The long term market outcome averages about 15% growth a year over the long term (plus dividends).

7. Invest in some property (private or commercial rental or whatever) to balance your shares portfolio. Typically when stocks are bad, property is good and vice versa.

If you must seek financial advice, go to an adviser in your home town or country. Many banks provide this service essentially free. You can try a range of them and cross-check the advice for consistency or otherwise. DO NOT use Hong Kong Advisers whatever you do!

Investing in stocks in your home country from anywhere you might be in the world is as easy as clicking a computer mouse. You DON'T need to follow the stock market if you have invested in a range of blue chip stocks. They will take care of themselves over the long run. This is a perfect strategy for pilots.

This advice turned me from a financially-dumb professional pilot relying on a wage and being economically-conscripted to work for a ethically suspect management, into a financially independent and very happy person. (Thank you Pat, wherever you are!).

betaboy
30th Apr 2007, 13:59
That is fantastic advice.

I have found that most "financial advisors" in HK are simply people trying to skim easy money off unsuspecting investors. I recently met with one in central who assured me that I should set up an account through them in the Isle of Mann (which is ridiculous to me since HK is essentiallly a tax free port), for which they would charge me 5% of my invested money. Through this account, I could invest in a myriad of hedge funds that aren't available to me in HK. The company would charge me 5% to buy each fund, plus management fees of 2.5% a year (oh, but these would be invisible to me since they would be built into the net asset value of the funds...!). Then, if these funds did particularly well, the fund managers would keep a few percent more for their excellent stock picking.

I also have friends who have dealt with gweilo advisors who specialize in expat situations who put my friends in high-risk hedge funds that turned out to be frauds!

As Flex says, better to be diversified across commodity equities, other equities, real estate, and cash/bonds. Use discount brokers to buy blue chip stocks (www.etrade.com.hk is one, so is www.boom.com.hk), and don't let other people manage your money, 'cause no one else has your best interests at heart!

FairlieFlyer
1st May 2007, 03:39
Betaboy - I'm guessing it was a Wrapper - its so you wont pay excess tax if you return to Europe. If you won't return they maybe you needed to be clearer as to your requirements

Re your money - I'd suggest you get professional advice (it is almost always free then you can decide)

Its like asking Journalists what they think of a Flying incident :}

airbusbatics
2nd May 2007, 04:01
Thank you very much for your advice Flex, and thank you too Beta for your input.

I am aware the most so called IFAs are affiliated with some of the insurance companies and push only for the product that gives them the highest comission, not the product that would suit best the needs of the customer.
I know some on a personal level, most do not have any sort of background or training in Finance (even know an ex-model cum IFA), they just found an easy way of making a buck as an intermediary. The companies that they work for tell them to push to sell a certain plan and that is what they do. More of a salesperson than an actual advisor.


I too wouldn't go to one of these for biased advice nor would I let them manage (skim) my money....The reason I was asking is because I was looking to do one of those retirement plans for expats in the Isle of Man (Hansard, Royal Skandia, etc) which, I believe, are not bad, but unfortunately they have to be setup through a financial intermediary or institution, they can't be done directly. I was just looking for a reputable intermediary who would limit to getting his/her commission from the plan provider and not try to charge me a percentage of my investment.

These kind of jobs are what I like to call the Parasite Professions, they don't actually produce anything, they just like to live off what others produce...


CORRECTION - Mrs. Busbatics reminds me that it is now no further called MY money, it is now known as OUR money...:\

Thanks guys!

Two Cocks
2nd May 2007, 07:38
Try

Financial Partners International Ltd
Kevin McGlynn
3708 The Center
99 Queens Road Central
HK

+852 2827 1199

His PA Desiree Smirke is always keen to help and make an appointment.

He has a number of Cathay Pilots on his books. Good for wealth management and insurance purposes. Check out his Loss of Income protection.

My friends and I are very happy with what he has done for us.

Good luck

FlexibleResponse
2nd May 2007, 12:29
airbusbatics,

There are lots of sharks out there just circling around waiting to gobble up pilots that might appear on the fringe of the circle.

But don't let the negative hype scare you into in-action. That is, not to invest your savings. That would be a very, very bad outcome.

For a start, try smallish sums of money invested directly into bluechip shares in the stock market of your country of retirement through a discount on-line broker. That investment will give you the experience and confidence to know what to do next.

It is normally free to join any discount online broker (Oz = https://www.comsec.com.au/ and other countries just check via google). You can run ghost portfolios on them in which you can simulate investments in shares. But there is nothing like putting your own cash on the line to focus your attention.

If that sound too hard, go down to the HSBC and start a share account and buy some HK bluechips. The local HSBC girl will fall over herself to help you. Invest say HK$20-40,000 in maybe 3 or 4 bluechip companies and sit back and watch the SCMP business pages.

Over the long term, a diversified investment in a stockmarket WILL make you a lot of money.

Financial advisers get to play and gamble with your money. And with that they try to build their own reputations. They don't care about you or your money except how it might affect their reputation and fees. They might win with your money sometimes, but even if they lose they still take a set percentage of your total invested funds each and every year, even if you are losing capital. What a job!

Learn and follow the Golden Rules of investing and you can advise yourself.

airbusbatics
7th May 2007, 21:06
Thanks for the information Two Cocks.

Flex, I do have some investments running already, precisely with online brokers (lowest commission charge and the flexibility to manage my investments from the computer, sitting at home ).

But I would be interested in those lecturers you mentioned, any idea if that organization or the individual mentioned still does any?

Thanks,

Airbusbatics

BlueEng
8th May 2007, 05:15
Airbusbatics,

seeing that you mentioned Royal Skandia earlier, I have a 25 yr plan with them set up through "The Henley Group" here in HKG. They are based in 9 Queens Road Central. This plan has done very well for me in recent years, and is intended to be one of my main sources of retirement income (apart from the houses! and UK state pension!) You need to contact a guy called Alex on 28241890. He is very helpful and has a regular 6 month review with you if you need it, more frequently if you request. They do not take any money from you, but get it in commission from Skandia, so for the pessimists amongst the community, I guess you pay in the end, but in reality, nothings for free...

Happy investing...:ok:

Freehills
8th May 2007, 06:55
http://www.efficientfrontier.com/

Some good stuff on investing and portfolio management. Maybe not as accessible as a set of lectures - but if you've got the chops to be a pilot, you've got the chops to be a DIY investor like FlexibleResponse.

FlexibleResponse
8th May 2007, 12:10
airbusbatics,

Great to hear you are already online in investing. Get a subscription to a Shares/Investor/ETC monthly magazine from your home country. This will give you enough information to establish who the blue chips are and which are doing the best. Ignore the new startups and speculative stocks and invest in the big guys.

The lectures I mentioned fizzled after about a dozen lessons due to the difficulty of crew getting to attend them regularly with rosters as they were and still are. These lectures were about 15 years ago!
The company still exists in Hong Kong and Dr Doom is quite high profile. So that tells me you are not reading SCMP Business Section every day or watching the business news on TV closely! Get a subscription to the SCMP and start today!

To most pilots, business is boring as batsh!t. But you must learn what is going on in the business world so that you can advise yourself. It is not difficult, but does take some personal discipline.

If you don't take the time to learn, someone in Hong Kong (or maybe from your home country) will most assuredly take your hard-earned money off you! I guarantee it!

Dan Winterland
9th May 2007, 02:50
IMHO, the best thing to do is ask what your colleagues are doing, and then do the opposite! From my experience, us pilots are not very good with investments.

FlexibleResponse
9th May 2007, 10:42
Dan Winterland takes the cake for the best advice, so far!

superfrozo
9th May 2007, 12:09
Two words:

Ostrich Farm.

You'll be able to retire at 35!

FlexibleResponse
9th May 2007, 13:07
One word:

Diversify!

Dan Winterland
9th May 2007, 16:58
Macadamia nuts!

boocs
9th May 2007, 22:49
Having worked for an airline previously in Oz, these "wise" investments were doing the rounds at one stage:

Olive trees
Gum trees
Ostrich eggs
Ostrich farms
Pine trees
Deer farms

Unfortunately :hmm: :rolleyes: my timing was off and I missed all of these.
b.

FlexibleResponse
13th May 2007, 07:38
Unfortunately, my timing was off and I missed all of these.

No, you actually got lucky by missing out!

AVOID get-rich-quick schemes like the plague (especially if they are run by aircrew or your friends). They have too much associated RISK and will almost certainly make you get-poor-quick (and lose your friends).

Stick to INVESTING in blue-chip shares. They WILL make you rich! But you be patient and allow time for your investment to work its magic via the rules of cost averaging and compound interest.

Sow the seeds of your blue-chip INVESTMENT now, add a little more INVESTMENT fertiliser on a regular basis, and sit back and enjoy your aviation career.

Remember, "Patience Glasshopper!" When your flying days are done, you will reap more than you can spend.

Those who don't heed and take action on wise investing now will be economically doomed to fly the freighter in their later years until they expire alone in some dingy crew hotel bed...

If you don't believe me, ask some of the poor old suckerss why they are still flying and then sift through the BS in their answers to find the painful truth.

mrsurrey
13th May 2007, 08:49
For free advice on the Dow 30 check here:

http://www.valueline.com/dow30/index.aspx

You can also pay a few hundred dollars a year for the full set of reports (1500?) which is worth it in my opinion is you're looking to find +20% returns in a diversified portfolio.

Note that there are always only a few very attractive stocks out there so don't diversify too far or you'll be forced some stocks that aren't as much of a bargain. Perhaps 10 stocks is enough to stomach so long as you stick to quality companies are looking at the long term.

Just in the Dow 30 there are a few quality companies at cheap prices at the moment:

General Electric:
http://www.valueline.com/dow30/f3807.pdf

Home Depot:
http://www.valueline.com/dow30/f4402.pdf

American International Group:
http://www.valueline.com/dow30/f465.pdf

No need for luck in the long-term!

Good luck!

MrS

(p.s. this is all very easy if you stick to the basics, my mates in the city with maths and physics degrees are bored stupid, they're just doing basic arithmetic.)

FlexibleResponse
13th May 2007, 12:12
Perhaps 10 stocks is enough to stomach so long as you stick to quality companies (and) are looking at the long term.

No need for luck in the long-term!

Excellent advice from mrsurrey!

FlexibleResponse
13th May 2007, 13:11
Ladies and Gentlemen, hold onto your hats, here they come...!

FlexibleResponse
21st May 2007, 14:44
No disrespect meant to STUEYXAN. I am absolutely sure that there are some very good and ethical Financial Advisors out there (even in Hong Kong), but it is really hard to differentiate between the crooks and charletons for the uninitiated.

But, please do remember, that the worst mistake you can make is not to invest. It is better to invest and lose rather than not to invest at all. At least, if you invest and lose, you will learn a hell of a lot and be a much smarter investor next time! If you don't invest, the Bank will eat your savings alive.

Please invest some money, even if it is small, and thereby learn the art. Just remember to limit your exposure first up and diversify your investments.

CMOTDibler
22nd May 2007, 04:56
...it doth mock the hand that it feeds upon.
OK so maybe that originially was about jealousy but it also applies to quite a few financial advisors.
I have had two expeiences with financial planners wanting my money, both bad. I learned from the first mistake so when I got cold called by Mondial in Hong Kong I decided to have some fun. After they listened to what our priorites were they promised to come up with a sound investment plan. Lo and behold the plan they came up with was the exact opposite of what we had said, but it did involve a lot of front-end loaded schemes that kept us locked in until 60 and gave them the fees to keep them in flash offices downtown. I played along until Mr Walker finished his spiel and then asked questions that revealed what the "plan" really was. Just remember that these people generate no money, they simply use yours. You pay for every facet of thier lifestyle (as well as kickbacks from the fund managers of course).
As has been said, for them it is no risk. It is not thier money and they don't even manage the funds.

Go out and buy 'Financial Planning in Hong Kong- A Fast track Study Guide' by David Choy. Available at Dymocks. Then at least when you go to see one of these guys you will be able to help him draw up your Client Assessment and risk matrix.

I agree with Flexible, investing can be as basic or complex as you want it to be. Stick some money away, don't lead a consumer driven lifestyle and before you know it your options in life are expanded.

Good Luck to you.

FlexibleResponse
25th May 2007, 13:13
Go out and buy 'Financial Planning in Hong Kong- A Fast track Study Guide' by David Choy. Available at Dymocks.

Great advice from CMOTDibler who said he has learned the hard way.

Educate yourself and manage your own fricken' money. Don't give it to these self appointed "financial gurus" to gamble with. Most of them are trumped-up used-car salesmen. For heavens sake you are a pilot, you are intelligent enough to look after yourself!

Learn about investing and do it for your family. It's dead simple.

FlexibleResponse
30th May 2007, 12:17
As pilots we all know the importance of the 1 in 60 rule and its practicable application to aviation

So who can anyone explain the importance of the rule of 72 and its practical application to investment?

Busdude
30th May 2007, 19:26
Divide the interest rate into 72, that will give you the number of years it takes for your principal sum to double. For example: interest rate of 10%, principal of $1000, it will take 7.2 years to double the $1000 to $2000.

FlexibleResponse
31st May 2007, 12:41
Arrrh! The magic of compound interest!

Just invest some money, add a sprinkle of years and poof! You have doubled your money.

But wait, there is more! Just add the same number of years once more and you will again double your money (quadruple), and then once again (eight times) and....OK, you know the drill!

The real secret of wealth creation is time...so, START NOW!

(you do the flying hours and let your money do the working hours!)

Numero Crunchero
1st Jun 2007, 10:17
The "Rule of Ex-Wives"
'The number of jobs you will need to have had in your career in order to retire is one more than the number of ex wives you have'.

So, if you have no ex wives, you can get by only having had one job. In my case, ex mrs crunchero totally ignored the rule of 72 and went straight for the rule of "I will take 75% of everything and then some of everything you earn for ever", and so now I am on 'wood'. That is, I am on my second job, so I can't afford to have any more ex wives...if I do, I will have to get that asiana job, followed by the emirates job, followed by jetstar etc etc till I die.

FlexibleResponse
1st Jun 2007, 13:17
LOL!

Ex mrs crunchero need to be introduced to a nice young man to get you off the hook!

Failing that, a new mrs crunchero is the only known remedy to keep an ex mrs crunchero in check.

Playing with volatiles and naked flames can be an explosive business!

whodunnit2
21st Jun 2007, 13:43
OK Flex you have convinced me, it is time to give myself a pay increase! I have spent the last few weeks surfing the net for all the info I can get regarding investing. I have started pretty much from scratch. Knew absolutely nothing three weeks ago and now I know just a touch more than nothing. :}
Has anybody read any good investing/How to books they can recommend? My eyes are getting criss-crossed staring at the computer screen!
In the meantime my poor pot of savings is sitting in the bank waiting for me to educate myself.
W2

FlexibleResponse
21st Jun 2007, 14:31
My mentor told me to read anything about Warren Buffett. But that can be as boring as bat**** for a pilot new-investor (worse than Vol 1 or the FCOM 4 sleeping pill!). It took me some years before I could approach the business pages of the newspapers with anything other than severe distaste. Now I devour business information! (Perhaps I have an undiagnosed phobia?).

I have a small pdf file that I stole from a broking site which seems to encapsulate the essence of investing that I can send to any email address. Your profile doesn't allow emails, so if you just make up a temporary one-use address with hotmail or whoever and I'll send it to you.

whodunnit2
21st Jun 2007, 16:14
That will be fantastic, thank you very much. I have adjusted my settings to accept mails.

W2

FlexibleResponse
22nd Jun 2007, 13:03
Hi whodunnit2,

Check your private mail.

Flex

[email protected]

whodunnit2
8th Jul 2007, 15:27
I came across this outfit while paging through the DB Magazine. www.wealth-mentors.com

Has anybody attended or know of someone who has attended one of these seminars? I am still trying to figure out how to go about earning myself a pay increase.

Thanks

W2

Freehills
8th Jul 2007, 16:00
No. Looks like a standard day trading technique, trading options with a stop-loss. Sure you can make money, but you can gambling too...

Options in HK are expensive, in the long run the trading fees will win, IMHO

Are you trying to invest, or make more money? If the latter, maybe better to find a hobby/ job that you can do around flying (trading on ebay for example, buy stuff cheap in China, sell it expensive in your home country)

FlexibleResponse
8th Jul 2007, 16:10
whodunnit2,

Your link is all about options trading. Win big or lose big!

This is completely different to the philosophy I am trying to project.

I want pilots to learn about Investing!

Investing is worlds apart from trading or gambling or pissing your money down a black hole!

There is a huge difference between investment and speculation. It is very important that we understand and respect that fundamental difference.

FlexibleResponse
31st Jul 2007, 13:40
In the interests of demonstrating more about investments, I have created a theoretical portfolio of what I consider to be 10 investment-grade Australian stocks.

In each stock I have invested a theoretical AU$10,000 at the closing price of each stock on 31 Jul 2007, for a total investment of AU$100,000.

The stocks I selected are listed on the Aus stock exchange and the codes are ANZ, BBI, BHP, BNB, LEI, NHC, QGC, SUN, WDC and WOR. This choice represents my personal dumb pilot's opinion.

The total value at 31 Jul 2007 is of course AU$100,000. I will give updates from time to time on how this investment goes in terms of value and dividends returned.

You can build a copy of this theoretical portfolio on one of the many free internet trading sites, and follow its' progress, or you can try and beat this mix with your own personal selections!

Even better, you might even select some stocks yourself and invest some of your real money and really ride the train! Go on, you can do it!

FlexibleResponse
1st Sep 2007, 12:36
Well that was a very exciting month on the market!

After all the pain and grief, at the end of trading on Friday 1 Sep 2007, our initial investment of $100,000 of shares were worth:

$100,528 (Just over 0.5% gain for the month or about 6.3% gain on an annual basis).

Plus Dividends of $991.75 announced to be paid as follows:

BHP announced a 33.63 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($90.80).
BNB announced a 21.40 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($75.97).
LEI announced a 65.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($165.75).
SUN announced a 55.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($283.80).
WDC announced a 53.25 cents per share dividend to be paid in August ($279.56).
WOR announced a 32.50 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($95.87).

routetuner
1st Sep 2007, 15:19
whats your name -kevin?

Cpt. Underpants
1st Sep 2007, 15:38
Told to me when I joined CX by an Old China Hand:
THREE RULES FOR FINANCIAL SUCCESS IN HONG KONG

Never Buy A Car In Hong Kong
Leave With The Same Woman You Arrived With
NEVER (repeat) NEVER Take Financial Advice From A Pilot


Beware of a certain B744 Captain (LAX based) who peddles an "investment" in the Isle Of Man. Read the fine print, you're in it for a lot longer than you think.

If you do get into the stock market, invest in stocks in an industry in which you have a fundamental interest. Ghost the investment at first, see how you would do without the risk of being burned.

Rule three above negates most of what I have said, but if you solicit advice here, that's what you're going to get.

scanscanscan
1st Sep 2007, 17:44
I like this thread and what flexible respose has to say......however it is a big investment world out there and investing ONLY in Australia does not spread risk enough...just my 10 Tola bars worth..

FlexibleResponse
3rd Sep 2007, 11:17
Cpt. Underpants offers excellent advice! Pilots can be the worst source of investment advice because of the way they assess risk! If you take the time to absorb the lessons contained within the the material that we have previously covered, you can educate yourself to understand and properly assess commercial and investment risk.

investing ONLY in Australia does not spread risk enough.
Patrick, the ex-Ghurka Officer, turned financial-Guru from the house of Dr Doom advised us many years ago, to invest in the stock market of your end-user currency. He advised that if you invest in other markets, you will suffer currency exchange risk, and in the long run you will stand to lose more than you will gain.

I use the Australian market only as an example of the investment philosophy, primarily because that market is the one I am familiar with and also that represents my end-user currency.

However, the concept of investment that I am espousing is applicable worldwide.

Numero Crunchero
3rd Sep 2007, 13:11
I would also like to offer caution to that LA's recommendations. I investigated it about 8 years ago and found it sadly lacking. Very heavy MER etc and huge penalties for leaving within 10 years etc. Caveat Emptor.

Flex - I like it - keep updating us.

sizematters
3rd Sep 2007, 13:37
invest in loose women, fast cars and booze..............................and simply waste the rest OK !!!!

FlexibleResponse
4th Sep 2007, 15:38
Arrrrgh! How true!

Fast women, fast planes, fast cars and booze! The elixir of life.

Invest some money now, and you will always be able to afford to keep your partner and yourself happy!

It doesn't get any better than this!

FlexibleResponse
28th Sep 2007, 14:58
Yet another interesting up and down month on the market! But we are making very good profits on our investment already. Who would have thought this to be possible in such a tumultuous time? Well guess what…we investors know that if we take the long term view that we will make excellent profits.

At the end of trading on Friday 29 Sep 2007, our initial investments of $100,000 of shares were worth:

$110,178 (That’s 11.02% for the two months or about 66.1% gain on an annual basis).

Plus Dividends of $1205.03 announced to be paid as follows:
BHP announced 33.63 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($90.80).
BNB announced 21.40 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($75.97).
NHC announced a 5.5 cents a share dividend to be paid in November ($258.28).
LEI announced 65.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($165.75).
SUN announced 55.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($283.80).
WDC announced 53.25 cents per share dividend to be paid in August ($279.56).
WOR announced 32.50 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($95.87).

So did you invest and make money like the rest of us?
Or did you procrastinate and just put it off?
Are you now thinking, “Damn, I should have done that, but now it is too late!”(?)
What a crock of sh!t! It is never too late to invest.
Do it now for yourself and your family!

Beta Light
28th Sep 2007, 17:05
AVOID a company Devera and partners, especially a very smooth yuppie called Phillip two-dad’s

missingblade
29th Sep 2007, 12:56
Yep - Had Devere cold call me 15 times and force me to meet them - then they tell you they will present you with what you need- except they sell only one product - Generali Life. They do a very hard sell. Same old SH!*e. Avoid. You don't need them to sell you essentially the same thing you already have through your provident fund. Which makes me wonder who gets the commissions on that?

willnotcomply
3rd Oct 2007, 17:24
Who do you think gets the commission Einstein?

FlexibleResponse
8th Oct 2007, 11:51
COS 2008 is in your face. Sixty-five yo before you get parole!

If you don't become financially independent, many of you are likely to die on the job before you reach retirement age.

Start your investment in your own future now. And you can tell your employer when to shove-it, and on your own terms!

missingblade
8th Oct 2007, 12:09
Who do you think gets the commission Einstein?

Ever heard of a rhetorical question? And sarcasm is the lowest from of wit...

willnotcomply
8th Oct 2007, 15:55
missingblade

Do I understand you correctly? You were "forced" to meet after 15 phone calls to discuss a product "essentially the same" as your provident fund. You, my dear man will have a long and prosperous career in CX.The company really like pussies that are easily coerced. I would have told him to go and get :mad: long before the 15th call. Are you also forced to work on G days? Oh sorry, that was my rhetorical question. I suspect you are missing more than a blade!

missingblade
9th Oct 2007, 01:58
I am so sorry for sharing my experience with the likes of you "willnothave sense". I profusely apologize for my lack of common sense in allowing Devere to come all the way out to my local pub to buy me a beer and present me with promised total financial solution. I am ignorant and dim and did not realize they were going to try and pull the wool over my eyes untill I actually met them. I couldn't smell it coming. My philosophy of investigating all possibilities when it comes to investing must be fundamentally flawed. My Einsteinian idiocy in trying to warn my fellow colleagues like you against this company trying to sell you something you already have courtesy of the CX group was a travesty and an infringemet on your time. Thank you for enlightening me to the fact that I am a pussy with the brain of Einstein. You do wonders for my self confidence. I would love to fly with you soon!

FlexibleResponse
10th Oct 2007, 14:19
Gentlemen (and Ladies) please! We are all on the same side here. Let's try and learn from one another so that rather than make the same mistakes of those who have gone before, we get to stand upon the shoulders of giants!

We are all human and we all make mistakes. It takes a lot of guts to 'fess up to an unpleasant experience. We should be most appreciative to those who share information and therefore help make all our lives better!

The aim here is very simple:

Become financially independent.

FlexibleResponse
2nd Nov 2007, 13:30
OK, it’s Friday 2nd November 2007. We got past a very interesting October with all the gloom and doom folks predicting the worst. But, we are Investors and we don’t care about the day to day share prices. We are looking down the track 2 to 3 years ahead. Having said all that, where are we with our investment strategy right now?

At the end of trading on Friday 02 November, our initial investment of $100,000 on 31 July 2007 in shares were worth:

Share Value $115,047 (That’s 15.05% for the three months or about 60.12% gain on an annual basis).

Plus:
Dividends of $1919.17 announced to be paid as follows:

ANZ announced 74 cents per share dividend to be paid in December ($261.22).
BHP announced 33.63 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($90.80).
BBI announced 7.25 cents per share “dividend” to be paid in September ($408.54).
BNB announced 21.40 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($75.97).
NHC announced a 5.5 cents a share dividend to be paid in November ($258.28).
LEI announced 65.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($165.75).
SUN announced 55.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($283.80).
WDC announced 53.25 cents per share dividend to be paid in August ($279.56).
WOR announced 32.50 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($95.87).

There is no excuse for not investing your earnings wisely.

Your family and your future well-being depend on the decisions that you make now.

FlexibleResponse
30th Nov 2007, 11:07
The Australian Stockmarket has been very robust in the face of the waxing, waning and dithering of the immature so-called professional money managers as they seek to come to terms with a new experience...what to do about the exposure of the sub-prime loans scandal. In focusing on this problem, they have completely overlooked the opportunities that exist in areas that are not affected. Let's hope they all consumed by the monster they created!

At the close of trading 30 Nov 2007, our initial investment of $100,000 on 31 July 2007 in shares were worth:

Share value $112,626 (That’s 12.63% for the four months or about 37.89% gain on an annual basis).

Plus:
Dividends of $1919.17 announced to be paid as follows:

ANZ announced 74 cents per share dividend to be paid in December ($261.22).
BHP announced 33.63 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($90.80).
BBI announced 7.25 cents per share “dividend” to be paid in September ($408.54).
BNB announced 21.40 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($75.97).
NHC announced a 5.5 cents a share dividend to be paid in November ($258.28).
LEI announced 65.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($165.75).
SUN announced 55.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($283.80).
WDC announced 53.25 cents per share dividend to be paid in August ($279.56).
WOR announced 32.50 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($95.87).

BHP wants to takeover RIO. This could mean a very rosy future for BHP above and beyond what is forecast.

Pilots, please invest in blue-chip companies for you and your family!

FlexibleResponse
2nd Jan 2008, 00:04
Well that rounds out another healthy calendar year. For us, it also marks five months of investing in selected Australian stock market blue-chip stocks. In that time as an investing team, we have suffered two major market corrections and also a change of Government in Australia and still we made a very healthy profit!

Where do we go from here in 2008? China is growing strongly and demanding more and more raw materials to feed its voracious appetite. Australia is expanding its mining and infrastructure to try to keep up the supply.

At the close of trading 31 Dec 2007, our initial investment of $100,000 on 31 July 2007 in shares was worth:

1. Share value $112,103 (That’s 12.1% for the five months or about 29.04% gain on an annual basis).

Plus:
2. Dividends of $1919.17 announced and paid as follows:

ANZ announced 74 cents per share dividend to be paid in December ($261.22).
BHP announced 33.63 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($90.80).
BBI announced 7.25 cents per share “dividend” to be paid in September ($408.54).
BNB announced 21.40 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($75.97).
NHC announced a 5.5 cents a share dividend to be paid in November ($258.28).
LEI announced 65.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($165.75).
SUN announced 55.00 cents per share dividend to be paid in October ($283.80).
WDC announced 53.25 cents per share dividend to be paid in August ($279.56).
WOR announced 32.50 cents per share dividend to be paid in September ($95.87).

The combined increase in share value and dividends was $14,022 which is $33,652 on and annual basis. Therefore, using the rule of 72, when we reinvest our dividends, we will double our initial investment of $100,000 in 2.14 years (ie, $200,000). And if we can maintain that % rate, we will double again to $400,000 in 4.28 years.

Your most precious commodity when INVESTING is TIME.

Start Investing NOW!

willnotcomply
22nd Jan 2008, 06:17
How is your share portfolio looking today? ****e, I would think. Another reason to invest in quality property.

jobe
22nd Jan 2008, 09:24
Any suggestions what to do with the P-fund? I'm all equities.Ouch!

FlexibleResponse
22nd Jan 2008, 10:15
Flexible response

How is your share portfolio looking today? ****e, I would think.

The CommSec site is max’ed out at the moment and cannot give us the value of our Custom Portfolio. If it could, I think we all would agree it would look like ****e!

What I want all you Investors to ponder is, “last week it looked good, today it looks ****e, and sometime in the not too distant future, it will look great”! How can this be? What has changed? What will change?

Over time, the stock market goes up at a rate of 15% pa. So don’t panic…what the Captain means is, “Don’t sell and realise a loss”!

Investment is all about time in the market.

It’s as if we have gone back in time in a time-machine. The market today has reset time by about 12 months. If you buy now you will get shares at prices that haven’t existed for a year. What a great opportunity to buy in! Do YOU have the guts?

Another reason to invest in quality property.

Property is the same as the Stock Market in that it goes up and it goes down. A balanced and diversified portfolio will include Property as well as Shares.

Remember, in this life there are only four classes of investments that you can invest in:

1. Shares.
2. Property.
3. Cash or cash-like instruments.
4. Tangible objects such as physical gold, works of art, etc.

The mix can be changed to suit the conditions. But you can’t escape the reality of choosing your investment vehicles!

canonball1
23rd Jan 2008, 02:20
Flexible Yapper,

You do know how to wan.k

pill
23rd Jan 2008, 03:01
Wan.k and quote Noel whittaker. Better to listen to him than that crank who is our current GMA. Any word on a phone box for his going away do.

broadband circuit
24th Jan 2008, 04:59
Interesting that DeVere & Partners was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I hear that one of our pilots got so pi:mad:ed off with their calls that he eventually agreed to meet them, but refused to go their office, insisting that they came to him, and when the guy got there, told him to go back to his office and remove his name from their cold call list.

Apparently he's never received a call from them since.

FlexibleResponse
31st Jul 2008, 12:37
In the interests of demonstrating more about investments, I have created a theoretical portfolio of what I consider to be 10 investment-grade Australian stocks.

In each stock I have invested a theoretical AU$10,000 at the closing price of each stock on 31 Jul 2007, for a total investment of AU$100,000.

The stocks I selected are listed on the Aus stock exchange and the codes are ANZ, BBI, BHP, BNB, LEI, NHC, QGC, SUN, WDC and WOR. This choice represents my personal dumb pilot's opinion.

The total value at 31 Jul 2007 is of course AU$100,000. I will give updates from time to time on how this investment goes in terms of value and dividends returned.

You can build a copy of this theoretical portfolio on one of the many free internet trading sites, and follow its' progress, or you can try and beat this mix with your own personal selections!

Even better, you might even select some stocks yourself and invest some of your real money and really ride the train! Go on, you can do it!

Wow! A year has gone by today. And what an interesting year it was on the stock market. So, how did we do with our stocks? Well some produced exceptional results and some were downright appalling! This goes to reinforce one of the basic rules of investing, that is to diversify (don't put all your eggs in the one basket).

Overall, on our initial capital investment of $100,000 we lost $2505 (2.5%) for a total share value of $97,495 as at market close 31 Jul 2008. The good news is that we made $3741.11 in dividends for an overall gain of about 1.2%.

Code Purchase Price Units Market Value Profit / Loss % Change
ANZ 28.300 353 5,736.250 -4,253.650 -42.580
BBI 1.685 5,935 5,341.500 -4,658.980 -46.590
BHP 37.000 270 10,721.700 731.700 7.320
BNB 28.190 355 2,328.800 -7,678.650 -76.730
LEI 39.200 255 10,837.500 841.500 8.420
NHC 2.130 4,696 22,024.240 12,021.760 120.190
QGC 3.000 3,334 15,669.800 5,667.800 56.670
SUN 19.400 516 6,904.080 -3,106.320 -31.030
WDC 19.050 525 8,494.500 -1,506.750 -15.070
WOR 33.900 295 9,437.050 -563.450 -5.630
__________________________________________________________
Total 97,495.420 -2,505.040 -2.505

So in essence after a full year in the stock market we made an overall profit of capital loss plus dividends equal to a whole 1.2%. Whacky doo! Actually as we are not going to sell, we made a profit of 3.7% and an unrealized loss of 2.5%.

I suppose on the other hand, considering some of the severe investor losses out there who were involved with the "professional" advisors and also minus their advisors' fee plus a cut of the total invested, we really have done very well to hold our heads above water (just!).

What do we do now? Cash out, realign our portfolio or just maintain what we have and plough on? To assess the resilience of our philosophy of long-term investing, we will select the latter. That is, we will sit and watch for another year!

This is precisely the time when most inexperienced or timid investors will cut and run. However, this market weakness has created the opportunity for the wise and long-term investor to seek opportunities!

I will keep us all posted!

Tiburon peligroso
31st Jul 2008, 20:33
Has anybody heard of Abbey Financial Solutions?
www.abbeyfinancialsolutions.com (http://www.abbeyfinancialsolutions.com)

FlexibleResponse
2nd Aug 2008, 13:27
Has anybody heard of Abbey

No, but they are likely to be the same as every other Financial adviser company.

1. They talk you into giving them control of your money.
2. They gamble with your money in their favourite product.
3. They make a gain for you and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.
4. Or, they make a loss and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.

It's all quite simple really:

1. You take all the risk and risk losing all your money.
2. They can't lose as they get paid regardless of whether or not they win for you or lose all your your money.

Tiburon peligroso
3rd Aug 2008, 17:24
Thanks Flex
I'm new to the investment field...Your wise words will be remembered.

I will proceed with caution.
Thanks
TP

flyboy007
4th Aug 2008, 00:22
Interesting stuff Flex cheers for the constant updates.

FlexibleResponse
11th Oct 2008, 11:51
...from another thread, a request for update:

Flex,

Could we get an update on your sample investment portfolio?

Yes...it the portfolio has a market price of $64,046.030 at close of trade Friday, 10 October 2008! But, we will NOT sell. In say, two(?) years time we will laugh about this major event in economic history.

If there is any solace, one might be forgiven for thinking that it couldn't possibly go down any further. But...no one knows the future.

What we do know is that mankind will continue to need food, fuel, energy, resources and manufactured goods, which will all be provided by the companies that comprise the stock market. So the world of the stock market will not come to an end. The market WILL recover. But no one can tell us precisely when.

The current market conditions have been caused by fear and panic brought on by a complete lack of confidence in the market system. As that confidence is slowly regenerated, market prices will slowly rebound to more closely represent the value of stocks.

What has been created is an unbelievable opportunity to buy very high value stocks at unbelievably low prices. This is an opportunity that only happens once a lifetime for the astute investor.

Buttie Box
11th Oct 2008, 12:36
Didn't he get a game for Celtic?

40&80
12th Oct 2008, 23:15
Reference my post as scanscanscan in 2007.......The ten tola gold bars are presently in profit...just thought I would mention it .

Dan Winterland
13th Oct 2008, 01:08
Here's my advice on how to turn $10,000 into a million. Invest it at an interest rate of 5%. Then collect it 95 years later. It will be a million!


Does that qualify me as a fianancial consultant?

HKPAX
16th Oct 2008, 03:03
My grandfather said "never take investment advice from anyone who works for a living".

FlexibleResponse
16th Oct 2008, 14:40
My grandfather said "never take investment advice from anyone who works for a living".

There is a lot of truth in this!

Beta Light
28th Oct 2008, 06:53
Anyone heard of Gladstone Morgan

Some where they got hold of a CX crew or HKAOA list, have been cold calling myself and all my mates the last 2 weeks.

They will tell you it's a investors market right now - don't need to be a consulant to know that.

Then ask them to show you how much money they made their clients the last year, with some clients as reference, they could not provide anything credible, I talked to a Dinno person, claim to be the main man at Gladstone Morgan.

Follow the advice here, we all burned our finger before with the fees etc.

FlexibleResponse
28th Oct 2008, 11:40
1. Buy shares directly and hold the title directly yourself (ie, not through some investment fund or whatever).
2. Only buy investment grade blue chip shares.
3. Never lend your shares or title to your shares to anyone.
4. Never borrow to buy shares.

flyingkiwi
23rd Nov 2009, 04:00
Hi how about an update of your portfolio, where to from here? To me it seems at a cross road, i have significant csh sitting doing nothing but am fearfull the market has over rebounded, any ideas?

Dragon69
23rd Nov 2009, 06:21
How does one make "significant amount of cash" and then requests for financial advice on PPRUNE out of all places????? Why not spend some of that cash and hire a professional financial advisor, or are you too frugal to do that???

yokebearer
23rd Nov 2009, 08:26
Dragon you missed the whole point of this thread....

Dragon69
23rd Nov 2009, 09:19
yokebearer,

Maybe you should have a re-read of the initial post!

flyingkiwi
24th Nov 2009, 00:48
i made cash via HK property i was lucky enough to buy during SARs, ask how many cathay pilots have been ripped of by "proffesional financial advisors" you will get the point, i have already fallen for that trap, and by the way if you cant answer the question then get off this thread, if i wanted jealouse snide remarks i would have asked for it.

Dragon69
24th Nov 2009, 07:40
if i wanted jealouse snide remarks i would have asked for it.

You must be full of yourself if you automatically assume readers are jealous because you stated "significant amount of cash"...and yes you did ask for it by being stupid enough to ask for financial advice on PPRUNE.


ask how many cathay pilots have been ripped off by "proffesional financial advisors"


Ask how many pilots have lost money listening to financial advice from other pilots.

The point is there are plenty of bad financial advisors, and some good ones, this was the whole point of this thread...trying to find contacts to the good ones.

kluge
24th Nov 2009, 08:02
Calm down ladies.

To stick to the thread and to add to FlexibleResponse's input (which IMO is VG) I hope that the following (posted on a similar topic a few years ago) helps those reading this thread.

Would be interesting to hear answers to FlyingKiwi's question. :ok:

Of course life is not a dress rehearsal so an alternative is to go down to Wanchai eat drink and be merry for tomorrow........etc


Financial Education
You need financial education. This is not taught in schools. You can teach yourself to be financially smarter and recognise these types of legal "investment" scams by so called IFAs. Nobody has your financial interests at heart better than yourself. No one. Always remember this.

There are only four things ("asset classes" they are called) that you can invest in. Every "investment" product that you read about will fall into one of these or will be a derivative. Sometimes it is not clear, therefore this should raise alarm bells and look for hidden costs that will eat into the rate of return.

1. Cash or cash like products
2. Equities
3. Property
4. Commodities

Understand, assess and compare each investment opportunity against these categories:
1. Rate of return
2. Capital Gurantee
3. Liquidity
4. Ability to leverage
5. Any tax advantages
6. Costs of the product

What you need first and foremost is financial education to really understand what all of this and other terms in financial/investment language means. You are not taught any of this in school and the industry makes you feel ignorant. It preys on this ignorance to part you from you hard earned. Therefore you need to teach yourself to recognise when you are being sold a line. The upside is that you can teach yourself to be financially smarter very easily.

A good start is to read Robert Kiyosaki "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book and then his series. He has a game also. It is very good for educational puposes. It will teach you a lot about how investment and money works. It is actually fun once you start to learn about how the industry works as it opens up all the b/s you see in the market and in the high st banks. It brings clarity. Don't worry too much about the property related stuff given the current market, but it will teach you to recognise asset class volatility and cycles. One of his best lines of advice is this - and it is the hardest to find:

- Find an expert who can give you good advice, NOT a salesperson.

Others include
- The high street banks are not your freinds. They are there to screw you.
- Build income generating assets and then build pipelines between them. Increase the size of the pipelines and velocity of the money that goes between. Don't let money stay stagnant and not earning.
- Once the sum of your portfolio and passive income exceeds your total expenses you can quit the rat race.
- Once you make passive and portfolio income a part of your life, your life will change.
- People fail financially for two reasons; they fail to manage their money and they fail to leverage their money. You have to understand how to employ power leverage (the banks money), safely.

One you start to learn and can cut throught the cr@p and educate yourself the whole industry becomes very illuminating and the common tricks of the trade become apparent.

Hope this helps. Whether you like the author or not is not the point. This is just a pointer for you as it worked for me. Educate yourself and your kids. Good look with your ongoing financial education. It's fun. At the very least it will stop you falling prey of the "financial advisors".

K

FlexibleResponse
24th Nov 2009, 10:54
flyingkiwi said,

Hi how about an update of your portfolio, where to from here? To me it seems at a cross road, i have significant csh sitting doing nothing but am fearfull the market has over rebounded, any ideas?

Yeah, a good call! What has happened to the original portfolio? And what should we be doing right now and into the future?! I'll make it my project to give an update very soon which will show the good, the bad and the ugly...and some real surprises!

flyingkiwi
24th Nov 2009, 14:30
thanks Kluge and Flexible response

Finnally proper answers, its much appreciated, i am sure theres a few more out there with an interest in others thoughts on the current market and possible options.

Moneyman1
4th Apr 2010, 13:54
I think I miight be a bit late for this post. Have been doing some research on working for this company as I have an interview and some bad posts are popping up all over the place.

I had a look at this website which might answer some of the questions being talked about on here. It put me straight! Offshore- Exposed! (http://www.offshore-exposed.com) As for me I think I'll skip being an offshore IFA....

LongExcursion
7th Apr 2010, 03:25
As a buddy of mine recently said, I've spent 90% of my income of the last 60 years on wine, women and fast cars. The other 10% I've wasted.

On a more serious note, I've a close friend who I've known for many years who started an investment firm with another very smart and successful friend of his mid last year. I was one of the first to invest with them and I've been very happy with the returns, the service and importantly the transparency since. These guys put $5m each of their own money into it, so unlike most people giving financial advice or investment services, they actually have their own money at stake. It makes a hell of a difference, I reckon. There's plenty of people willing to charge for advice who aren't going to suffer any loss if what they recommend bombs. His advice over the years has not simply made me money, but saved me money. The best example being convincing me to convince my then fund manager to sell nearly all my shareholdings just before the market collapsed. Another more was walking me through getting my Dubai apartment hedged on the currency risk just before the AUD took off (thus far saving me $690k if I wanted to sell it and convert it back to my retirement/home currency). That's real money and genuinely good advice.

When you invest, you actually do so under your own/company name so your money is always and only available to you. They invest it using a limited power of attorney (they cant withdraw or deposit), and best of all there is absolutely no performance fees unless they make profits for you. You can also add or withdraw your funds whenever you like and see exactly where your funds are being invested, live!

The billions of dollars lost by people hoodwinked into investing in Bernard Madoff's pontzi scheme were all the more a surprise because his company was regulated by the US Securities and Exchange Commission and had been functioning for over 30 years. The lessons to be learnt from that are:
- Just because an organisation has been around for years doesn't necessarily mean it's legitimate
- Do your own due diligence, and if you do choose to abdicate your own investigation to someone else (eg. word of mouth) as many of us sometimes have to given so many of our waking hours are spent in the air, then mitigate some of the risk by making sure where possible that you're able to see your funds at all times and able to remove them at a moments notice. Not tied up behind a wall of so-called professional privilege where all you get is a monthly/quarterly update and dont get to see where it gets invested.

If anyone is interested, I'd recommend you take look at this website.
www.npcinvest.com/members (http://www.npcinvest.com/members)

Freetime
16th Apr 2010, 00:28
If you have purchased a product through this company can I urge you to check the advise you were given by them with the PRODUCT PROVIDER.
In particluler please:
Check the Terms & Conditions: Get a FULL copy from the provider.
Check what fees you will be paying, how much they will be and over what period of time.
Check you have been given ALL the documentation provided by the product provider.
I didnt and was misinformed and misled.
Once they have your money they dont reply to your concerns.

LongExcursion
19th Apr 2010, 05:39
Handy info thanks. It's just as helpful to know who to be wary of. Keep a wide berth on a so-called commodity trading company called "ThreeCoins", based in HK as well.

FlexibleResponse
19th Apr 2010, 13:02
If anyone is interested, I'd recommend you take look at this website.
Nussbaumer Pearce Capital - Newsletters (http://www.npcinvest.com/members)

:
Has anybody heard of Abbey
FlexibleResponse
No, but they are likely to be the same as every other Financial adviser company.

1. They talk you into giving them control of your money.
2. They gamble with your money in their favourite product.
3. They make a gain for you and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.
4. Or, they make a loss and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.

It's all quite simple really:

1. You take all the risk and risk losing all your money.
2. They can't lose as they get paid regardless of whether or not they win for you or lose all your your money.

FlexibleResponse

1. Buy shares directly and hold the title directly yourself (ie, not through some investment fund or whatever).
2. Only buy investment grade blue chip shares.
3. Never lend your shares or title to your shares to anyone.
4. Never borrow to buy shares.

Nothing new here ladies and gentlemen...people still sniffing out you high income earners with promises of riches.

You must learn about investing and become your own adviser...or you will be bled to death of any wealth that you accumulate by the blood suckers...you have been warned.

kluge
20th Apr 2010, 05:28
Absolutely - spot on.


De Vere & Partners - I remember this lot a couple of years ago inviting me and Memsahib for a very nice evening at the races.

We had lots of fun thank you very much. Excellent nibbles and champoo.:ok: Got quite tiddly.

However;

If a company cannot answer basic questions regarding their product on
- liquidity
-safety of principle
-rate of return
-any tax advantages

....but steer you into a diatribe of "in 10 yrs time, the mkts traditionally increase blah, blah, we just charge you every time you make a transaction, deposit monthly payments and watch it grow" bolleaux then smile, nod, drink copius amounts of their champoo and tell them you'll get back to them. ;)

It's the only return you'll ever get. At least they've invested in you up front and you had a good time. But learn and understand why not signing up for these things is a good thing. :hmm:

It is nice to be invited to these things though and interesting to see similar faces doing the rounds between companies. Champoo anyone ?

Bemused accountant
20th Apr 2010, 12:58
I have found this thread via google and wondered if anyone can actually recommend any worthy professional ifa firm? I am a qualified expat accountant and due to the number of 'sharks' I had call me, decided to look into qualifying as an IFA. I have taken the exams but would like to have gained experience through a reputable firm but I simply cannot seem to find any worth talking to. Unless anyone can recommend a good firm I agree totally with the replys on this thread that you are your own best advisor.

kluge
21st Apr 2010, 04:51
a reputable firm

Remember that this is the Finance industry we are talking about here.
Their job first and foremost is to make money from you not for you.

Some of them can be good investments. Just be careful if you are considering purchasing their products. ;)

Moneyman1
23rd Apr 2010, 20:09
I just don’t get it!

Everyone knows these guys are salesmen dressed as IFAs obtaining outrageous commissions. After all, they actually advertise that fact: just look at the requirements on there own website for IFAs – (no financial background required as you will be sent on a week’s course!). A week’s course!!!!

Who do I feel more sorry for: the poor clients being given investment advice on there hard earned saving by an ex carpet salesman masquerading as an IFA or the gullible commission only fools who spend an equal fortune being sold a idiotic dream job of making riches ripping off those poor clients!

Facts: kicked out of France, Singapore, Panama (you gotta be hard-pushed to get kicked out of Panama!), Brazil. Given warnings in Germany, Switzerland, Russia, Oman and probably others, yet they still manage to make a trade across the world.

Eh! :ugh:

kluge
25th Apr 2010, 15:24
aka FILTH

Failed In London Try HK

LongExcursion
26th Apr 2010, 23:00
Don't miss the wood for the trees. Refer post of 7th April. About to close another month and these NPC champions have added another 4.7% to my net worth while I've been working for a living. Talk is cheap. Results are what matter. If I thought I could do it myself better, I'd have switched careers.

roll_over
28th Apr 2010, 18:21
Flexible Response can you give an update on the portfolio? I am interested, thanks!:ok:

FlexibleResponse
2nd May 2010, 09:36
I have been putting off the valuation of the portfolio because of a few factors mostly to do with my time!

But, I will do a quick and nasty estimate.

Of the original 10 companies, three have gone. Babcock and Brown (BNB) was an investment bank that overextended themselves in the good times and were wiped out by the financial fiasco. We lost all our money on that one.

Babcock and Brown Infrastructure was also immersed in or at least tainted with its parents problems and so when BBI eventually re-invented themselves, we ended up with one new share for every 50 old shares that we held. I consider this to be a complete write-off of our money as far as our portfolio goes.

Queensland Gas (QGC) was taken over by BG Group and we were paid $31,081 for our original $10,000 worth of QGC shares. This amount is cash which probably earned interest of say a conservative $1000.

Our active portfolio of the 7 remaining shares was valued at 71,410 on Friday 30 Apr 2010.

I don't have the time to work out the dividends we received, but lets say over the three plus years we got a conservative $7000.

Portfolio at 30 April 2010

1. 71,410 Shares
2. 31,081 cash
3. 1,000 interest
4. 7,000 dividends

Total = $110,491

It is not a lot for over three years of investing, but the world financial fiasco was very cruel and we are still ahead.

Also, we did not allow for intelligent reassessment of the companies in which we first invested. That is, when BNB started to look shaky, I sold my personal shares of both BNB and BBI to recover some of my capital. I also sold my personal SUN shares when I decided that the management team were not performing well enough. I sold my bank shares (ANZ) during the world financial crisis when it wasn't yet clear who may have had exposure (early on, even the Oz banks were unable to work out their exposure). I immediately reinvested the proceeds of all of these sales into resource companies (as I did with huge winnings from the QGC takeover). So my personal portfolio was able to come back on the upswing in very healthy condition indeed.

But for the PPRune portfolio, out of curiosity, I decided to let nature take its course and see where the "do nothing" strategy took us.

In essence since we first invested, we went straight into the worst crisis in our lives and after three years we have emerged with about 10% more than we started with...

...so just imagine where we would be in more normal times! :)

LongExcursion
7th May 2010, 07:25
These are the times when that seemingly illusive "good" financial advice differentiates itself from the rest. A kiss, a welcomed cup of coffee and an enjoyable breakfast free of ulcers and concern about what the last 24 hours financial "Armageddon" means to me. The boys at NPC didn't call to tell me woes of meltdown. The call I did get was to re-assure me that they had hedged my AUD/USD mortgage at 0.9300 (telling me it was now 0.8800 and saving me $10000 on the potential exchange loss). That my Dubai property hedge had been removed at the same time on the expectation of a medium strengthening of the USD, crystalizing a profit of 120% on the face value, rather than a notional decline of 55% in the last 12 months on the wholesale collapse in the capital values of our local real estate market). And that my investment account was up US$170k in 3 days after they'd finally been rewarded for their expectations on what Greeces turmoil meant for the EUR and "risk based" currencies. All then validated by me going into my transparent, online account and seeing the numbers in black n white.
In amongst all of that, I actually get to feel the buzz of trading and a proxy sense of achievement.
This thread began with someone in search of good advice. It's when markets collapse and people panic that the cream rises to the surface.
Good luck punting your own money. I'm guessing the above self-managed portfolio looks even less impressive again. And that ignores the opportunity costs and the cost of capital.

kluge
12th May 2010, 05:42
LongExcursion - sounds interesting. Tell us more about this 'FX as an asset class'. Interesting website.

- What are the costs for this performance based service?

- Is there ANY limitation on your liquidity - can you withdraw the whole amount including your returns at any time without paying any penalty costs ?

- As an asset class will a bank or other lending facility allow you to use the funds you have allocated with NPC as collateral ?

FlexibleResponse
12th May 2010, 13:01
LongExcursion,

Congratulations!...you seem to have done very well!

But, a word of caution, from what you have written, your advisers appear to be gambling with your money on exchange rates. It is really good to hear that they indicate to you that you are up at the moment and furthermore they are sending you black and white accounts that appear to substantiate their claims.

To validate what you are hearing, make a call on them and tell them to withdraw all funds and deposit the full amount in your independent bank account. It this happens without delay and without quibble, then I think you have possibly a reliable adviser. As soon as you have all funds back, when you feel comfortable, you can start the investment process again...no loss.

But, if you hear things like, no that would cause a loss, your funds are tied up, you would miss out on further gains, quack, quack etc...then "Houston, we have a problem"...you have just become the latest casualty...

dbboy
12th May 2010, 16:33
It's a fact that if Berkshire Hathaway operated as a fund manager, charging typical Hedge fund fees (5% up front, 2 % annual and 20% of profit) the approx 62 billion currently shared by the investors would be worth 5 billion in the investment fund, and 57 billion in the management fund!!(2009 figures).
IFA's and fund managers make a fortune off gullible punters. Do your own research and look after your own money, and avoid paying any commision to vultures.

LongExcursion
15th May 2010, 08:21
Flex/Kluge: I like the fact that there's no entry/exit fees. They charge a 2% annual management fee and a 20% performance, but only if they make money. That, plus the fact that the advice/service they provide on hedging my apartment for example is included, are big winners for me. I've no qualms paying someone an incentive fee if it makes them work harder for me and they actually meet/exceed their promised performance benchmark. Having been paying a super fund back in Aus less in fees and having less in my account now than what I've put in there, you sometimes get what you pay for.

As for "gambling", I dont know about you guys, but I'm sick of the Aus based super fund manager I have money with also telling me how safe equities are as an asset class over the long run in response to me complaining about his negative gross returns over the last 5 years and they still have the gaul to charge me for it. I reckon it comes down to the managers.

No idea about collateral. Might be worth asking though.

No penalty costs on withdrawing money because the money's in my name. They get you to sign a document when you apply which gives them authority to trade your funds, but they dont control them, the account holder does (ie. the investor).

I think personally what makes a huge different is that these guys are still small (total managed funds less than $100m). They always return calls/emails and you constantly get a sense that they're working their a.ses off for you and adding value. Hopefully they can continue that service/performance mix as they get bigger.

FlexibleResponse
25th May 2010, 07:18
Financial Advisers are motivated by making money for themselves.

Excessive performance fees encourage investing in high risk, high reward ventures to maximize returns in order to maximize their performance fees.

If they get it right, they get good fees and you get good returns.

If they get it wrong, they only miss out on their performance fee, but you get wiped out.

If you get wiped out, it is not a problem to them, their are plenty more folks like you out there.

They get to gamble with your money and share the profits, but they don't share any of your losses.

YOU carry ALL the risk.

Think about it...You can't lose if you gamble with someone else's money.

LongExcursion
3rd Jun 2010, 02:45
I think this is where we should finally draw the distinction between a Financial Advisor and a self-invested Money Manager. My instinct in handing my money to someone else is not just that I have confidence in their integrity and track record but that they have skin in the game themselves, as these guys do. That way, both parties are investors with stakes to make or lose. Its the most direct way of tying their incentives to your own.
Financial Advisors connect investors with Money Managers. There's a significant difference in context, motivation and remuneration.
Ultimately, we make our own decisions. I get the impression threads such as these are akin to drunks drawn to standing underneath a lamp post, they're there for support rather than illumination.

FlexibleResponse
4th Jun 2010, 13:58
but that they have skin in the game themselves

No, they have NO skin in the game. They are gambling with your skin in the game.

With the next client they have to you, they have done the opposite trade with his skin as a hedge...that way they can't lose...

...if they lose with your trade they win with his...if they lose with his trade they win with yours.

Notice that their "loss" cannot be a negative figure to them...that they always get paid their management fee and with every second client they get paid a bonus?

Are you paying attention..?

LongExcursion
7th Jun 2010, 12:51
Not really, because u seem to have confused some of us with idiots.
The thread began with a colleague wanting to know if any of us had had good experience with giving our money to someone else to manage and if so, who. I think it’s fair to assume that he was asking because, like most of us, he didn’t have the time, experience or confidence to invest it himself.

Your response was an emphatic, “no”, and your advice was that we should buy a book, teach ourselves a brand new skill and invest our own money because as far as your obviously narrow experience had taught you the only way to be financially secure into retirement is to either put our money under a mattress or become a financial investment guru overnight. Your proposition that there wasn’t a single money manager on the planet who was able to provide reliable, long term returns worth paying for wasn’t just completely dismissive, but oddly impassioned. You then hand-picked a portfolio made up of a list of Australian equities and unwittingly showed us first-hand how foolhardy it is for us to assume that we can pick stocks with the aid of a text book, a brokerage account and a few newspapers whilst flying passengers fulltime. The most obvious case in point being your pick of Babcock and Brown, who’s share-price didn’t just collapse they actually went bankrupt. That’s 100% loss on an investment if we’d have brought shares in them, right?!. The net worth of the entire paper portfolio you selected I'm presuming based on whats happened to the sharemarket since is now worth less than what it was virtually purchased it for. And given the point you were trying to make, one can assume you selected what you thought was a sure-fire group of financially sound and reputable businesses. Conclusion: if managing money was something we could do easily, we’d more likely be sitting on a beach in the Maldives with our feet in a bucket of champagne than flying red eye shifts and fighting for bonuses for airlines that seem to care less and less about their qualified personnel.

I wouldn’t feel better losing my own money given my skill-base anymore than I’d feel better handing the control of my plane over to a kid with a RPPL in the midst of a thunderstorm. There are aviators and there are pilots, just as there are guys that handle money well and many that don’t. I can remember a legal friend of mine saying to me once when I asked if needed divorce advice, “The man who defends himself in court has a fool for a lawyer”. Ergo, there are some professions where you need qualified, competent help.

How many passengers get onto our planes and ask to see our qualifications before sitting down? None. Why? Because they assume that either airline or the person sitting beside them has done the due diligence for them and assume that in the event of disaster that every airline pilot has the same experience and skills. Your advice to all passengers would seem to be, hey don’t get on a plane or find an airline with a verifiable safety record, teach yourselves to fly instead and be in control of your own destination. There’s nothing wrong with that, but if the person asking the question

The reality is, its hard enough finding the time to spend with our wife n kids let alone learning enough about financial markets and asset classes to have enough confidence to do it better than the professionals in it and then keep monitoring those markets in order to then be informed enough to respond accordingly. There’s enough stress on the flight-deck and in the day to day politics of fighting for the next bonus whilst keeping my eyes open on-approach, without having to ask my F/O to pass me the financial pages mid-Atlantic when my mind and body is drained from over-work. So until I retire and I have the time to devote to watching the finance markets gyrate, I’m happy to have found some sharp guys to look after my hard earned. In the interim, another month just passed and these guys just increased my net worth another 2.1%. From what I read, equity markets seem to be collapsing and there's more panic. I’ve don’t have any complaints paying a commission to someone who seems to be sheltering me from that.

FlexibleResponse
12th Jun 2010, 16:36
LongExcursion,

That was a really excellent reply. I admire and respect your intellect and wisdom. I very much appreciate the length and depth of thought that has gone into your reply.

There is room for many points of view that are equally valid and you have reminded me of exactly that.

Best regards,
FlexibleResponse