It is being widely reported in Channel Islands' media that an Aurigny pilot en-route from Southampton to Alderney earlier this week sighted two UFOs over the English Channel.

The reports were followed up by a further report from another pilot in the area and a radar trace reported by Jersey ATC.

The Aurigny chap was apparently so shaken up by his experience that he did not feel able to fly the return flight until he had a long sit down and a cup of tea.

Anyone seen any further reports on this?

W'at d' ya mean by UFO ?

Uncooperative First Officer ?

It made the beeb ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/guernsey/6591365.stm

"However, a similar encounter in 1978 over the Bass Straits in Australia, where the pilot was in radio contact with the ground throughout, resulted in the pilot never being heard from again, so these phenomena are important to study."

Phwor! Wonder was it little green men, black helicopers or men in white coats that resulted in him "never being heard from again" .... :ooh:

JAS

"Phwor! Wonder was it little green men, black helicopers or men in white coats that resulted in him "never being heard from again" "

We'll never know, but his death is hardly a matter for amusement..

Green Guard, if it was a Trislander, there is no Un-cooperative First Officer, in fact there is no First Officer at all!

Yes indeed I'd heard the same story, a friend of mine dash skipper heard the exchange on Jersey zone, he believed that the other pilots who saw them were a blue islands jet stream crew, he also went to GCI tower after landing and confirmed that zone had a radar trace.

Scary that the American military in their secret machines can get this lost!! (or so we hope!)

Guernseys reputation as a tax haven obviously spreading throughout the universe!

From the Beeb:

Nick Pope, who used to investigate UFOs for the Ministry of Defence said: "While no witnesses are infallible, pilots are trained observers and less likely than most people to misidentify something mundane.

What part of pilot training is that then? Is it tested? Performance A, perhaps.......or very comprehensive MCC? :) :)

waldo

It's called "see and avoid"

Why is it that, for some people, any mention of 'UFO' requires immediate recourse to 'little green men' or other similar funnies.

It's a perfectly legitimate topic for sensible discourse and I, for one, would prefer that to the usual weak jokes that are always present in whatever media.

It would be nice to hear from the pilot involved. He's probably so afraid of having the mickey taken that we probably won't.

Hardly the sort of reporting culture present in the rest of aviation.:hmm:

What part of pilot training is that then?

Absolutely. Many years ago as one of a bunch of students who had read "Eye and Brain" I discovered first hand that so-called 'trained observers' often made the worst mistakes. A memorable case was the two policeman who chased Venus across the South West as it "hovered in front of their car". Allegedly they wouldn't be shifted, even when confronted with star charts, met reports and the heading of the roads they were tearing along.

Hi there all ,
i flew myself for a different company nearly a year out of Alderney and what i found out that all the Aurigny pilots there("greetings by the way") are very good and experienced Pilots,definately no Freaks or people who need attention.
Also i doubt that the "Alcohol Fumes " of ACI have projected these kind of reflections to worry a experienced Trislander pilot,which normally are busy enough flying that "Camel"Single hand over the Channel.
One thing to think about i guess is that The french are right next door with the nuke Plant ,so maybe they practiced some stuff.
I flew myself along the French coast yesterday and didnt see anything ..though i was night cargo so maybe too late..
Anyways ....dont denie what you cannot understand..discuss and try to understand ...
And nooo i dont believe in any green men ...but im not also that foolish too think were the only ones....
Cheers

Ufos are real, that they contain little green men (or any other alien type) is an entirely different mater.:=

The local rag is saying that NO trace was observed on the old tubes.

The website will have the story from 16.00 today

www.thisisguernsey.com

Perhaps the little green men in the UFO heard people on Earth are willing to pay for a type rating and wanted some green bills.

Wonder what a UFO rating would go for these days. And if I need to pay more for a VFR/IFR/ SFR/PFR (space/planet) endorsement as pic

November 1986 JAL Cargo 747 flight 1628 was followed by a UFO for 31 minutes over the Alaskan skies.

And both the FAA controller and military NORAD controller reported observing the RADAR return of the 'UFO' target on their scopes.

:cool:

I'm sure that the nice people in Licensing at lgw will issue you a special SFR license - for a fee

google "Belgium UFO" ; The pilots were convinced they were chasing something, even though we couldn't see it on the radar

This image has been doing the rounds on e-mail. Apparently from a passenger breaking mobile phone rules... Looks like it could well be strange light on a cloud formation to me, not quite what the local media are making it out to be.

http://QuickImageHosting.com/Image/orfjzlvn (http://QuickImageHosting.com/Image/orfjzlvn)

Looks like a lenticular cloud to me.
If I saw a UFO, even if the aliens formated on me and took photos while one of them mooned at me through the their alien porthole. I wouldn't tell anyone except my wife but only because, she thinks I'm mad anyway.

INSIDEVIEW

"Anyways ....dont denie what you cannot understand..discuss and try to understand ..."

I agree. There is a bit more "going on" than we (mankind) know about.
We as humans are not that smart, we can't even cure the common cold for example, nor can we get our heads around infinity. Are there any brainstorms on board who can explain to us, mathimaticaly or otherwise, infinity?

Is that better Tooloose? Well I wasn't far out.

The sightings seem to be located close to the ortac triangle. Enough said!

Not only can we 'not get our heads around infinity', some of us can't even spell it. What chance have we?

Never heard of the ortac triangle? What is that?

It is similar to the 'Bermuda Triangle' but based on the reporting point 'Ortac' situated on the UK and French FIR boundary mid - channel.

Many ships and aeroplanes have disappeared there over the centuries.

Oh! Goodie!

We can blame the French then.

Seen funny stuff coming off the rock enroute to the mainland after a few days in GCI, no sales just motoring back with brain hurtz.

christofj,
If those cell phone photos are of the same phenomenon, thanks!

Where I live, I've seen some absolutely marvelous "spaceships".
Mostly wave-generated, with the right lighting doing the rest.

Did somebody else notice the size estimations were all over the board?

Oh! Goodie! We can blame the French then.

Actually, the French got bored with the conspiracy theories and dumped their database on the net.
http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/
Should be accessible by now... in the first few days the server was somewhat overloaded.

I don't know if everything is on the site yet. They said they'd start with the 28% "Adequate data for analysis - Unexplained" category.

(The other three categories were "Explained", "Likely explanation" and "Inadequate data".)

> Looks like a lenticular cloud to me.

..but not at 1500 ft.

Maybe it waas just the glow from the Nuclear plant at Cap de La Hague!

Not so long ago a professional pilot would rather not talk about UFO sightings. The results were often terribly amusing to co-workers. I've seen a few odd objects in the skies over the years, mostly from terra firma. Haven't run into any little green men (or big uh purple women). :p




UFO - Un Fotograph-able Object.

jokes aside...many years ago I encountered wake turbulence from an object not observed on any radar scope, as we flew past OTR. We could see the contrail, and continued to observe it for approx 15 minutes, as we liaised with ATC and the watch commander from some RAF station in East UK, neither of whom had any traffic on thier scopes......was it a UFO? or some secret military a/c....I don't know, but I do know what I saw and felt!!

In the case of the Belgians - did they not get camera footage from the F-16's that were chasing 'it'?

I seem to remember that 'it' apparently could perform 90 degree turns at speed and accelerate from a standing start to something stupid like Mach 3 or 4 in seconds...

More likely to be the US than little green men though methinks :)

If the doubters amongst you should ever be involved in such an incident you'll find that your opinion will change in about 20 nanoseconds... believe me. I don't believe lenticular clouds could be mistaken for UFOs to experienced observers but the terrified voice of a pilot reporting a UFO to me will live with me forever - it turned out to be the moon rising above a layer of cirrus.

According to Jeremy Clarkson in 'I Know You Got Soul' a RAF Lightning pilot happened upon a SR71 Blackbird mid channel. When the crew spotted him, they accelerated away. His squadron mates where highly sceptical. "Oh I see. So you saw a hugh black plane that accelerated away from you spewing diamond shaped blue exhaust.." This when the Lightning was pretty much the fastest aircraft in the sky. You can see their point.

Most observations have a simple explanation.

Looking at the picture and reading the pilots description this looks like the green flash phenomenon.

This happens during sunset or sunrise if the atmosphere has the right conditions.

A small bright mirage of the very top of the sun can appear high in the upper atmosphere. Normally green/yellow it can be blue in colouration.

It is rare enough to be called a UFO when observed, but of course it depends if the sun was actually setting below the horizon at the time of the reports.

Any idea what time the sightings were logged ?

If the sun was still up it is still more likely to be a Lowitz arc.

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/lowim1.htm

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/lowim4.htm

..except I thought a Lowitz arc couldn't be observed from both sides? I thought all observers would see it in the same direction - eg in the direction of the sun. In this incident two planes observed the object from different sides and one report says it was 1500ft below the aircraft.

Seems the origional link to the story as timed out but AFAIK it was at around 3 PM local time so even in the Channel Islands the Sun was well above the horizon, plus the greenflash is supposedly exactly that, a greenflash, lasting a second or two, so I doubt it can be construed as anything solid (never seen it though, despite trying over and over again).

My take on the very poor picture was it looked like Lenticular Cloud, but you not going to get that at low level (?). However having seen Lenticulars a lot ( Pyrenees) I know they can look very solid and difficult to "range". Anyone know if there is any topography adjacent to the Channel Islands that can produce lenticulars?

Wiggy, got you on the lenticular cloud.

Here is a great photo of one, reminds me of independence day.

http://taskboy.com/lectures/AlienAbduction/01_Introduction/lenticular_clouds.jpg

About 5 years ago I was walking along the coast at night with a group of friends (a few of whom also fly) and we spotted 2 lights out to sea moving backwards and forwards at incredible speed.

We all followed this for about 5 seconds or so convinced they were from UFO's. Then out of the darkness into the seafront lights emerged.... 2 ducks!

How the light reflected from them created the optical illusions it did I have no idea but if I hadn't seen them fly into the light I would probably be telling people to this day that there were UFO's off the South Coast.

I imagine there is usually a more likely explanation than little green men, unless of course you believe the papers:O

"Anyone know if there is any topography adjacent to the Channel Islands that can produce lenticulars?"

Ortac rock!

I have seen lenticulars in mid-Atlantic on a couple of occasions (and I speak as someone who has done a fair amount of wave soaring - apart from the day job).

At 3:31 am 27 April 2007 a large shiny object was spoted levitating about 10 min on the skyline.

"As I was walking home, I noticed a 'star' which was slightly larger then the others. I stopped for a minute and realized that it was changing it's shape. From an oval to a circle. It was shining very bright. A yellow object with a green outline. I couldn't believe my eyes. I used my cellphone to take two pictures. At first, I didn't really think it was an UFO because I don't actually believe in those things, but I'm not so sure any more." said the eyewitness, Damir Đuretić.


The picture was taken in Knin (Croatia). It was also seen by some UK Pilots (the same object ?)

http://www.tportal.hr/2007/04/27/0505007.19.jpg

and

http://life4tech.com/images/stories/UFO.png

About eight years ago we cruised west over Michigan somewhere. The 757 Captain described to me something which I have never heard from any pilot, whether a pro. pilot or amateur.

He had been on a similar flight just before sunset and they could see the lights of Chicago to the left across Lake Michigan. Both pilots saw several bright but very small round objects move at an unbelievable speed from near Chicago across the lake to their plane. There were no small spotlights anywhere-no possible source, and it was a clear sky, or at least there had been no clouds. The very small bright round objects flew small aerobatic sort of maneuvers in front, to the side of the plane. They asked ATC if anything was nearby. Nothing.

The objects disappeared and then came back. When the Captain asked the FO whether he saw them again, the FO looked down and said "I don't want to see them", because nobody else would ever believe them.

This is all that he told me and I wish that I had written his name down and called him later about the incident.:hmm:

1) The photo with the cloud like phenomens is apparently faked.
Some curious person at another forum has found the original photo where the "UFO"s were superimposed upon:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r13/RamATS/perfect-match.gif
Source (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread279748/pg4)

2) What are all those jokes about this ORAC waypoint?

Apart from some people thinking that this rock is some kind of sinister ("Accordingly the sailors, as they passed, were in the habit of kneeling many times before the Ortac rock, until the day when the fable was destroyed, and the truth took its place. For it has been discovered, and is now well established, that the lonely inhabitant Of the rock is not a saint, but a devil.") it looks pretty much like a... rock: ;-)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/Ortac.jpg/400px-Ortac.jpg
(from Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortac)

3) The interview with the pilot can be found here:

http://cdn.streamcdn.com/cdn.asp?c_id=channeltv&mt=channeltv&fn=ufovt.wmv

According to Jeremy Clarkson in 'I Know You Got Soul' a RAF Lightning pilot happened upon a SR71 Blackbird mid channel. When the crew spotted him, they accelerated away. His squadron mates where highly sceptical. "Oh I see. So you saw a hugh black plane that accelerated away from you spewing diamond shaped blue exhaust.." This when the Lightning was pretty much the fastest aircraft in the sky. You can see their point.

Just curious, but I had understood that the Blackbird was even faster than the Lightning?

Considerably faster, but I think the point he is trying to make is at the time, the existence of the SR-71 wasn't common knowledge.

OK, I’ll stick my head above the parapet.

I was an aerial photographer from 1979-2001, dealing mostly with fast jets, and was also involved closely with flight testing & development projects.

In all that time I never saw anything remotely UFO-like.

This last Sunday however ( bearing in mind the original report at the beginning of this thread ) April 22nd, about 21:30 I saw something pretty odd from my boat, in the NW corner of Chichester Harbour, West Sussex.

It appeared as a bright white light with a strong red tinge.

It seemed to be a short distance N of Havant, and about 2,000 ft, but of course not knowing the item it’s impossible to tell distances etc.

It was static, in all axis, and certainly not a flare.

I used 7 x 50 binoculars and it still appeared a strange bright white light with a red tinge – I feel I would have recognised an aircraft with landing lights, and this was not it.

I had a fairly decent digital camera with me, but felt it pointless as the object was hazy and any zoom would have taken out ground references – now I understand a little more the lack of decent photo’s, as it eluded me, a supposedly pro’aerial photographer…

I’m familiar with Goodwood, the Tacan beacon & traffic at Midhurst ( live near there ) and the fairly frequent unlit helicopters at night W of Midhurst.

I also know there’s an advertising blimp over W.Havant at the moment – it was not that, much too far NE from our vantage point.

My father, who has spent a lifetime in aviation and is probably the most sceptical person on Earth, stopped in his tracks when he saw it.

I do think there’s ‘something to all this ’ but of course what it may be is another matter.

In 1985, my girlfriend ( who did not drink or take drugs of any kind ) called me at work saying she could see a silver spherical object over W.Horsham, West Sussex.

As I knew the Dunsfold ATC staff well, I called and asked if they had anything on radar.

I was asked to come over.

I never got a firm answer about the radar, Gatwick said they had nothing, but the SATCO ( a very good guy at that time ) gave me a form straight from a handy pile,
“ UFO Sighting Report” or similarly worded.

It asked for all the details & a sketch.

I was told “ pity you couldn’t have called when it was still in sight, we could have got up a couple of QRA fighters from somewhere”

I was told quietly by quite a few ex-RAF groundcrew of aircraft in their care sent off in chases only to be totally evaded ( as in the Belgian F-16 incident ) but one simply did not discuss such things with pilots.

When I was about 12, so 1974 ish, a bright orange light moved slowly over Horsham one night, seen by thousands including my family.

We tried 10 x 50 binoculars on it and it seemed a translucent orange upright rectangle, with a very bright white light at it’s centre – about phone box proportions.

It moved slowly roughly NE for a good 30 minutes, then shot skywards at phenomenal speed.

After the local paper initially said “ mass sighting ” the next week there was a disclaimer saying it was a ‘scientist bouncing a laser on clouds ’ – interesting, as I even as a young boy was using the stars behind to watch it’s progress – a clear night !

Without going all Von Daniken ( I actually mean this & am not making money from it ) it must be noted that sightings often coincide with historical events – everything from the ‘Foo Fighters’ at the end of WW2 - & the atom bomb – to biblical records ( possibly the truest bit – oops, I’ll get my coat ).

As I am the inverse of Stephen Hawking, my mind like his body, as far as I can make out the current thinking is that faster than light travel involves ‘time travel’ – to the static people – so what some people think of as ‘thousands of years of observation ’ could be an afternoon’s work by some recce’ team !

If you’re reading this, E.T, if planning to do an ‘Independence Day’ please start with Crawley, with Havant a close second…

OK you can all take the P*** out of me now…Just don’t say I didn’t warn you when you’re being probed.

Slightly off track.

The only occasion the MOD will admit to a UFO sighting is when it is to their advantage.

I will give you an example. Many years ago a missile, during test at a MOD establishment, went way off the intended course and became in close proximity to an A/C. The crew I believe filed an air miss report. The MOD came up with the smart finding that it was probably a UFO! Got them off the hook nicely.

I'm sure as a nautical type you know your planets, but looking at a map I see Havant is West of Chichester Harbour and at the moment Venus is verybright, low, to the West, in the sky for several hours after sunset. Add a bit of colouration due to dust in the atmosphere and there is also scope for the red tinge.

Wiggy,

I completely understand your comments ( and tend to rather believe the story of the Police car chasing Venus for hours - that would explain a lot on many levels ! ) but if Venus ever gets as big & bright as whatever we saw, the orbits have gone out of synch & we're about to collide with it !

To the naked eye, at a pure guestimate & memory, about 1/2 - 1" wide and a lot brighter than the street lights ashore - I realise that's a good time for atmospheric distortion but genuinely think this was something else.

Also it was to the North of our position ( Sweare Deep, Chichester Harbour ).

I've pointed out Venus to many a crew, among Polaris & other things, in the vague hope it might help them get home if I went over the side or got hit by the boom etc and there was a systems failure or 'finger trouble' ( had a major electrical AND magnetic compass failure at the same time a few years ago, naturally singlehanded in fog, which got my attention ).

I keep an open mind and admit your theory is worth thinking about, but in 35 years of sailing & flying / generally stumbling about, I've never seen anything like it.

This could be anything but not funny.
Swissair 747 Flight 127 while at FL230 on Aug. 9, 1997 between Philadelphia and New York.

http://hometown.aol.com/jmikehull/swr127.rm

The Australian case referred to which occured in 1978 involved a pilot by the name of Frederich Valentich. No trace of his Cessna 182 was ever found. Valentich radioed that a strange object whith four green lights seemed to be toying with his aircraft.
A strange metalic sound was heard on the radio, and Valentich was never seen again.
Valentich was not the first or last pilot to come off worse from a UFO encounter. In 1948 an American fighter pilot Capt Thomas Mantell was killed when his P51 mysteriously exploded in mid-air as he closed on a UFO over Kentucky.
Also in the Uk in the 1960s an American exchange pilot Capt Bill Schafner vanished after attempting to intercept a UFO over the North Sea. The Lightning jet he was flying was later found whith the canopy intact, but his body was never found.
In 1976 two Iranian Air Force Phantom jets were scramble to intercept a UFO over Teheran. One of the pilots Lt Jafari attempted to fire a AIM9 Sidewinder missile at the object, as he did his electrical systems failed.
And the list goes on.
Are UFOs a laughing matter?

Link to one version of the Schaffner event here

http://www.freethewriter.com/cgi-bin/story2.pl?Mystery%20In%20The%20Skies

It's a very long time since I read of Mantell's accident - however caused - but I remember a vague impression he was in an F-104 ( haven't googled it ).

As for the Lightning, when you say the canopy was intact, was it closed & the seat not fired & where was the parachute ?

I understood early seats had a manual bail-out option.

I've never heard of that one, though there is the fairly famous story of a ground engine technician running up Lightning engines with no hood, sitting on a box, who managed to get into full reheat and had to take off for a horrific little flight.

As I understand it he got away with it in the short term - a thousand gold stars for eventually landing the thing - but did not do him well later.

There is another story of a U.S. transport crew - during the cold war - who 'lost it' and took the a/c headed on an apparent kamikazi mission East from Germany - a Lightning was said to have taken off with two missiles, came back with one...

Most UFO encounters I've heard of seem to be non-aggresive and quite possibly observational - after all if these things are advanced craft they could presumably make mince-meat of any of our fighters in a blink of an eye ( or whatever they have ! ) though there are some worrying reports, especially ground based, which leads the alien encounter camp to suggest there are several different races, good & bad.

I could introduce you to one person - if they have the same or a follow up address - 'in contact' in the UK - long story but I was extremely sceptical until I was shown something quite inexplicable which frankly scared the hell out of me !

This is not a 'friend of a friend' story, PM me if interested - if a journalist beware, I don't think the people involved would take at all kindly to publicity.

I don't know what I saw, but I was completely sobre and don't do drugs - it did show that we really don't know it all yet.

Having just read this link, it strikes me as badly written bolleaux - how exactly does the author know how the pilot was feeling, how is he a Vietnam veteran, and how come the 'aliens' whatever were so kind as to open & close the canopy ( and the Shackleton crew able to see it ) & fit a different mark seat in the process !!!

If there's any 0.0000001 % chance of a 'cover up' here, maybe some seat records were misplaced...

More likely similar to to the result if I tried to write about womens' fashion.

I met the above many years ago at a party. He was sort of seeing a girl I was at college with.

He assured us that there ARE things out there not human and that UFO's are real.

AND I know some of you are going to come back and take the p*ss. So be it, I can take it.

Ok, just to add to the discussion, historically earthquakes are often preceded by 'lights in the sky'. Lots of documented cases but no good explanations.

I have a feeling that a pilot flying from Southampton to Alderney and describing an object to the North-West of the island could be looking towards the reported epicentre of this morning's earthquake.

Or not, of course...

I recall that Mantell was in an F 51 Mustang.

"Earth lights" preceding the Kent tremors? (no disrespect to those who saw what they saw)

According to Jeremy Clarkson in 'I Know You Got Soul' a RAF Lightning pilot happened upon a SR71 Blackbird mid channel. When the crew spotted him, they accelerated away. His squadron mates where highly sceptical. "Oh I see. So you saw a hugh black plane that accelerated away from you spewing diamond shaped blue exhaust.."

Sounds a lot like this other old UFO report:

...Here is the funny story about the P-59 (and explains the funny hats the guys are wearing). In 1942, this was a Top Secret airplane. It was at Edwards AFB, and when they had to transport it, (when the dry lake got flooded) they disguised it with a phony wood propeller on the front -and covered it in a shroud.

One time, on a test flight out of Edwards, it was spotted by pilot's getting checked out in P-38s out of Van Nuys Airport. When they reported seeing an airplane with no propeller, no one would believe it. The story kept circulating, so the test pilot of the P-59 decided on a great plan. He dressed up in a gorilla mask, put on a derby hat and a cigar. Then he made a point to fly next to the P-38 pilots and waved at them. When they got back to the base, they told everyone they had seen a plane with no propeller, flown by a gorilla, wearing a derby and smoking a cigar. Naturally, NO ONE would believe that one, so it stayed a secret until after the war.


http://ships.bouwman.com/Planes/P59.html


Now, this is no s**t...:)

Mantell/Schaffner
Both cases were tragic accidents, hyped up by the UFO fraternity (which I am ashamed to admit I am a member of). For details of the Mantell case, visit:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/mantell.html
and for the Schaffner case, see:
http://www.uk-ufo.org/condign/secfilcapshaff.htm
and some remarks by his son from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/yorkslincs/series1/alien-abduction.shtml
"Michael Schaffner, Ohio, USA
My name is Michael Schaffner. I am the youngest son of Captain William Schaffner. I would like to thank Ian Cundall and the rest of the Inside Out team for helping us put an end to this "mystery". Having read some of the comments that have been posted I would like to take this opportunity to respond.
For many, this has become a complicated question of conspiracy theories, allegations, deceptions and the like.However, I think that this is a situation that best illustrates Ockham's Razor: the simplest answer is usually the best. It is an unusual stretch of the imagination to believe that UFOs and government coverups are responsible for the tragic death of my father. This is especially true having read the Summary Report of the RAF concerning this accident. Contrary to the assertions made by UFO "enthusiasts", it is far simpler, and more logical, to understand these events in their factual context.
My father simply did not notice that he had lost altitude while trying to decelerate to the proper intercept vector. Given the inclement weather, poor instructions, improper training, and overall stress of flying at high speed and high G, it is no stretch of the imagination to believe that he simply made a mistake. I am completely satisfied that my father died because of a chain of unfortunate events, none of which had anything to do with someone's subjective need to believe in UFO's.
Although I do not doubt that there is life outside of our terrestrial realm, there has been no substantial evidence demonstrated by these "enthusiasts," such as Tony Dodd, to support their claims concerning my father. Not one single, solitary shred of objective proof. I challenge any of these enthusiasts to support any element of their claim with germaine evidence. Their assertions that "they will (n)ever get to the bottom of what happend because the RAF will never accept that a UFO could be involved," is only begging the question. They should be ashamed to call themselves UFOlogists, a name that insinuates professionalism and qualified academic study. I would suggest that they are no more qualified to study UFOs than the average public school student. To say anything more is a waste of breath.
To those of you who still doubt, rest assured that there is no story here. Only the tragic death of a beloved father who is truly missed and who will never be forgotten. "
Joe McGonagle

Well chaps I'm well known to be a cynic of the first order and not able to tolerate BS easily, BUT, I have have had 3 seperate experiences in my life time (two airborne and the other on the ground in the company of fellow cynics) that absolutely confound rational explanation. Lenticular clouds do not manouvre at high speed across 120+ degrees of the horizon.

This does not mean I am an apologist, enthusiast or believer of things UFO simply, so Richard Dawkins aside, I am unable to explain what I saw.

I am therefore slow to pooh pooh those who have experienced similar phenomenon.

... taken from a prominent UFO site.

"As I was travelling along Kirkstall Road in my car, heading towards lower Burley on my way back from Morrisons, I noticed a constant Red light approaching at a low level from the front which came to a standstill slightly in front and up to the right of my car. It was very apparent and a number of people must have noticed it as the road was very busy and all the motorists nearby stopped to gaze at it, as did I. The light remained for some 30 or so seconds before being accompanied by a bright yellow light which was directly below the original red light. Within a second they had both disappeared, leaving a single green light which moved away in the opposite direction I was travelling and so out of my sight. Everything appeared to stand still for the duration of the light and I am unable to explain it."

It seems this kind of thing is always gonna be ridiculed, no matter how 'credible'.

Keep shtum, I say.

I read somewhere that lights are often seen in the sky just before earthquakes. Could the UFO have been related to the kent quake?

Hi BF,

"I read somewhere that lights are often seen in the sky just before earthquakes. Could the UFO have been related to the kent quake?"

I suppose that may figure in the top ten possible explanations. Elsewhere in this thread (IIRC) there is a comment that the anomaly was close to or within a military danger zone - that seems to me to be a more likely cause, either advanced (plasma?) weapons testing, or maybe something as simple as a target ship on fire.

I hope that the answer does emerge, but if it was a weapons test the MoD are unlikely to admit it, and it will go down in history as a UFO.

Regards,

Joe McGonagle

Earthquakes often involve large chunks of rock - continental shelves, and the like - moving, relative to each other. There are very large potential differences and considerable static discharges involved as a result. Thunderstorms often precede, or occur simultaneously with, techtonic plate movements, as they do with events of volcanism. Lightning and other optical effects can be seen in the air or on the ground, not necessarily near fault lines, before and during earth movements.

i was driving home after a christmas party finished at Warwick Uni in Coventry, driving along the M6 at 2am i noticed 2 lights in the sky that seemed to be dueling with each other, my first thought was a copper chopper using its search light, and thought no more about it. As i got on to the A14 eastbound i noticed the "dueling" lights again, and thought to myself it must be one helluva car chase going on, as i got further up on the A14 i kept seeing the lights in my rear view mirror, then at the front of my car and it kept on happening as i turned off the A14 on to the A43.

It was only when i got close to Stamford, Lincolnshire that the lights suddenly vanished, my first thoughts were that i was too tired and caffiened out after drinking too much coca cola at the christmas party.

As i got out of stamford to go along the country roads to my home, the lights re-appered and followed me again, till was about 1/2 mile from my house. I have only told my parents about this, as i awoke them at 0400 as i slammed the front door and in a frightened state of mind.

I never drink and drive and have never taken any illegal substances.


Just out of interest, If the RAF get reports or phonecalls from people about UFO's but nothing seen on their radar screens, do they send up the QRA Tornadoes?

I am assured by the MoD that between 2000-2005 there were no QRA launches as a result of UFO reports from either Military or public sources. In fact, in a recent statement in the Commons, there were only 12 reports deemed to be of Defence significance and passed by DAS (Directorate of Airspace) to CT&UK Ops (Counter-Terrorism & UK operations). Following assessment by CT&UK Ops, they were deemed to have _not_ been of defence significance.

I have copies of the 12 reports concerned, and it appears that only "reliable witness" reports are considered for passing to CT&UK Ops. I have reservations about the value of "reliable witnesses" in this context, as I have come across many police reports with errors, and I would query the expertise of anyone to judge height,speed, or size of an unknown object in the night sky without electronic aids.

Of those reports, a few were made by civil pilots. One of them was to my mind definitely of defence significance (a "military shaped object" in the vicinity of Harwich/Felixstowe). This is one of the reports that I am basing a presentation "No Defence Significance?" on at St. Annes on 16th June. If anyone would like to attend, bookings can be made at:

http://www.lapis.org.uk/2007.html

Cheers,

Joe McGonagle

Hello MarlboroLite,

This sounds to me like it could be a Laser display, especially given that it was near the Christmas season.

Regards,

Joe

Several people have tried to PM me about this, but when I try to reply the Pprune system crashes.

I would think finger / software trouble rather than a grand conspiracy, but who knows - maybe all the Pprune moderators have been replaced by alien replicants - hang on, there's someone walking through the door...

To all those who PM'd me, thankyou and you will get a serious reply at
andylaw119@<hidden>

At first i thought it was a copper chopper with a high speed chase using its search light.

A laser show could possibly been a very worth while explenation, but what i saw "followed" me was over a distance of 75 miles. I'm open to any explenation possible, because what happened to me honesly left me shaken up.

I don't want to get sucked up in to the "x-files/area51" conspiracy stories, but i dont think we are alone in the universe. But as a race, ithink we would pretty nieve to think that we are the only living things around

I know we can use statistics to prove things anywhich way, Governments have denied UFO existence for years, or even used it to their advantage.



Thomas Mantell was flying a P51 Mustang, he used it chase a "UFO" but it was later discovered to be a weather ballon, Mantell died of oxygen deprivation.

The Iranian airforce did scramble F14 Tomcats and intercept "UFO's" over Tehran, their was gun camera footage around on the net for a couple of years.

Pretty much 'material' can be found on youtube as well. Just type UFO or KGB or MiG and you'll get..what you'll get..

Just out of interest, If the RAF get reports or phonecalls from people about UFO's but nothing seen on their radar screens, do they send up the QRA Tornadoes?
After 25 years in the RAF as an ATCO, seven of those as the emergency controller for scotland I can assure you that the RAF have zero interest. If you phone in a report they'll fill it in and send it to the place such reports are filed. I've sometimes had a look at the radar but only if I was bored.

BD

But but but!! Mr BD what if Ivan had ...err ...decided to err thingy? :rolleyes:

This does not mean I am an apologist, enthusiast or believer of things UFO.you mean a believer of Aliens , rather than UFO's , as you said in your post on 3 occasions you have seen things you could not identify ,UFO's ..Anyway the link makes for some interesting reading http://http://www.nicap.org/ufoe/section_5.htm (http://http//www.nicap.org/ufoe/section_5.htm)

But but but!! Mr BD what if Ivan had ...err ...decided to err thingy? :rolleyes:
Then the Q would have been launched but 'mysterious lights in the sky' etc. etc. Please! For once the defence chiefs were pragmatic and kept their feet on the ground.

BD

Oi! Ivan!!!! They're using pragmatism...Fly away.:eek:

Anyone read "The Hunt for Zero Point" ? Written by Jane's Defence Weekly? journo, name escapes me.
Reckons the "Foo Fighters" were German remote control jobs, it's a good read anyway.
No-one has mentioned the "Aurora". Apparently the latest greatest US aircraft. It's appearance would be confounding to any who saw it I daresay, shades of the Lightning guy seeing the Blackbird.
If they can keep an F-117 squadron secret for best part of a decade...etc.

I am an avid follower of this subject and find it very interesting.

Apparently the technology the US and RAF are currently using and that the public know about ie the euro fighter etc are 40 years old. So the stuff they are currently working on would baffle us and could be explained as UFO's are probably legitimate technology tests!

Aurora is a good example of this. It aparently exceeds Mach 6 and can travel long distances. http://wave.prohosting.com/aurora85/

Think about the stealth Bomber now that thing was first in action in the mid 90's now then they would have had to test that thing extensively before using it and probably would have been tested 5 - 10 years before it went public. Can you imagine a normal run of the mill pilot sighting one of these things streaking accross the skyline with its low radar visibility. i can imagine the conversation now! Now 20 years on what are our defence networks working on now If the stealth is used as a bench mark it could be anything and will no doubt look like something out of this world. If your fighting Islamists what best way to scare them pooless then with craft that looks like something from another planet.

So probably a number of sightings are ligitimate aircraft but the thing you have to ask yourself. Where are these technological advances really coming from!!!!!! Are we being helped !! (hahah now theres a little something to think about)

I have almost no doubt that disc-shaped objects have been made to fly using technology other than that we use now. (Wing and thrust to push it).
Dr Townsend-Browne in the 50's had these things wizzing around a laboratory, until the USAF and Navy(I think) took over the lab. Then it all went "deep-black", never heard of again, even after making newspaper headlines at the time..Hmmm.

http://www.smallfilms.co.uk/noggin/carpet.jpg

I can tell you what this phenomenon was.

Last year there was a report in the US of a new method of protecting high value buildings like nuclear power plants from an airborne kamikazi style attack. It involved firing rockets/flares whatever you call them, to generate a huge fog/cloud around the object so that anyone intent on crashing a plane into it couldn't see where to go.

Do a Google search on it

the Frenchies were obviously testing such a device at Cap De La Hague nuclear plant.

It's in the right place and it's definitely a cloud like structure.

I thank you !

I wondered if they were sun dogs: but I guess if there was a radar trace that would preclude that possibility!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog

Bri

I guess that they are seeing too much STARGATE :D
but of course the possibilities for any kind of earth extra life are relatively high, many many galaxies -> ... stars -> .. planets . However the optical illusions time to time could induce that kind of "observations"...

Is not understandable why they don't show themselfs if they are here ?

"keep a look outside they'll appear someday!"

An Alien,if possessing any sense at all, wouldn't come near this planet, surely.

They are not aliens,they are time travellers,Cooks Temporal Tours,they are going to be huge,I would rush out and buy shares now if I were you.
One has been told one cant get near the 15th century for German towels.
:rolleyes:

Book me a front-row seat for the tank-battle at Kursk. Would checkout the Titanic too. Feel a new thread coming on; "Cook's Temporal Tours - book now for your favourite historical event, operators standing by". We take threats seriously and please, no requests for the "Big Bang"...
Hmmmm.

For anyone that's interested the MoD have published the results of their "investigation" at:

http://tinyurl.com/yp6yhg

There was no investigation, simply a statement that as the event took place in French airspace, it is a matter for the French authorities. Amongst the material though are statements by the Guernsey ATCO, and both pilots involved. It makes interesting and puzzling reading.

Joe

A detailed report of this phenomenon has now been published at:

Report on Channel Islands UAPs, (http://www.guernsey.uk-ufo.org/)

The investigation team were fortunate enough to get access to the radar data which is highly useful.

Joe

A recent newspaper account of an aerial observation by a reader was described as being 'possibly' a UFO . . .

I'm with Mr Draper. If a UFO doesn't quickly become an IFO it's probably a CTT.

There's nowt so queer as fowk, and apparently "I don't know" is not a satisfactory answer to anything.

Then there's http://dingo.care2.com/cards/flash/5409/galaxy.swf

A few random comments on UFOs...

For 25 years I was an engineer with the European Space Agency (ESA) and I don't recall a single incident which might have been UFO-related; however

Has anyone else noticed how UFO incidents reported in the media tend to disappear very quickly from public view ? Who built that short shelf-life in ?

For a number of reasons (watching meteorite showers & open-air concerts at the local classic music festival, some of which were boring) I've spent a lot of time this summer looking up at the night sky with low ambient light levels. Try it, and make a note of time/declination of any objects you see moving up there (not the ones with strobes and green 'n red lights, they belong to O'Leary) then have a look on Chris Peate's site www.heavensabove.com (http://www.heavensabove.com) . Surprising how many moving objects you see up there which aren't in his very comprehensive database.

Scalzi is right !

R

Hmm. All I can say is that I have seen one aerial object that I couldn't account for, nonchalantly flying along over North London at (est) 15,000 ft. It was the damnedest thing. It could have been military, it could have been anything, but on a crystal clear April morning about 5 years ago, I saw an aircraft that I couldn't "see" - there seemed to be the reflection of light off a fuselage, but try as I might, I couldn't resolve what I had expected to be an airliner. Never seen anything like it before or since. Does that ring any bells with anyone here?

I was reminded of this after wandering into the French COMETA report of 1999, which is actually quite an astonishing piece of work, not least because it's public. Well worth a read.

"Never seen anything like it before or since. Does that ring any bells with anyone here? "

Could it have been a balloon?

No, definitely not a balloon. Very still air from 0 to 40,000 feet - I estimate the latter because a minute or two later, I watched a 4-engined aircraft heading due west at cruise altitude (it was clearly identifiable) and the contrail didn't blow anywhere.

The mystery aircraft looked largely like an airliner and indeed might well have been. Apart from the fact that it was heading about 010 (which is unusual), it looked pretty normal, until I tried to look at it. I had around 20 seconds viewing, nada. Spent the next half hour looking at everything else in the sky, all aircraft easily visible. I took note of reflections, sun angles, all that stuff, to cross reference against it, it just made what I'd seen seem even stranger.

Sent some of these over Havant regularly!

[URL="http://www.glow.co.uk/acatalog/FLYING-CHINESE-LANTERNS.html"/URL]:E:E:E:E:E:E