Your Airlines crosswind limits

[stilton]

When we first received the 757 at the airline I work for we had a crosswind LIMIT of 30 knots.

Someone later decided we did not really need a limit and changed the verbage to 'Recommended limit of 40 knots wet or dry'

This is for take off and landing on the 767's that we now operate as well.

It seems to me they are leaving the door open to approach and land with a x wind component of 40 knots or over and, fine if you stay on the runway.

But of course if you bend it or end up in the grass they can say 'well the recommended limit IS 40 knots'

I have no problem with being seen as less than daring and will not land with much over a 35 knot crosswind component in the wet and a little more dry.

This was not a good change I think, and in this case a 'limit' can be a good thing.

Curious as to other operators limits, wet or dry on similar and different types.

[platespinner]

B757/B767

Take off;
Dry 40kt
Wet 25kt
Standing water/slush 15kt
Snow, no melting 20kt
Ice, no melting 15kt
Slippery 10kt

Land;
Dry 40kt
Wet 40kt
Standing water/slush 20kt
Snow, no melting 35kt
Ice, no melting 17kt
Slippery 10kt

Reduce x wind guidelines by 5kt on wet/contaminated rwy when asymmetric reverse thrust is used.

[Mäx Reverse]

A319/A320/A321

Limit for T/O and Manual Landing: 30 kts
Max Demonstrated: 33 kts Landing / 29 kts Takeoff (Airbus Logic) :}

Having flown the BAe146 before, I think 40 kts cross is basically managable, depending on aircraft control behaviour, in the SIM we once did almost 50 knots (steady) without any problems.

However 40 kts steady wont be seen too often, and even if so local topography may bring very nasty turbulence just over the RWY, so I think you'll be flirting with leaving the runway sooner or later. Ad some gusts and here we go.

Do that on the 5th sector, afer 12 hrs, after a non-precision app in the dark with rain. Good Luck.

In my opinion, limits should be set so as to reflect the average company pilots skill at any time. It's unfair to raise them and after something is broken or bend to ask the Commander, why he hasn't pulled the plug in time. How often do you experience 40 lts cross or train for it?

As fas as max demonstrated values are published, I wouldn't dare to operate outside them (except in Emergency). I'm no testpilot...

Regards, MAX

[Mäx Reverse]

An interesting report about a B757 landing Accident at AMS in 1997.

http://www.nlr-atsi.com/downloads/rvtv-980861015.pdf

A short quote from the 'recommendations'

Aircraft manufacturers give limits for the maximum crosswind for each type of aircraft. They include a limit based on tests, the demonstrated crosswind, and a limit based on simulations, the manufacturer’s limit. In the case of the Boeing 757, the manufacturer’s limit is a crosswind of 40 knots (at an angle of 90° to the flight direction) and the demonstrated crosswind limit is, without gusts, 30 knots (also at 90°). The latter limit is generally adopted by aircraft users. In the case of Transavia, a note was included in the pilots’ manual, though a great deal was left to the judgement of the pilots themselves:

“X-wind (crosswind) > …” means that the given component is the maximum demonstrated crosswind during aeroplane type certification; this value is formally not limiting; however actual crosswind-components approaching (or even exceeding) these values should be treated as a strong incentive to divert to a runway with less crosswind.’

Regards, MAX

[411A]

Crosswind limits?
Don't have any, it is left up to the head honcho in the LHS.
The AFM however says, max demonstrated is 35 knots.
Note that it is not a limit, per see.

Comparing airlines today with (say) twenty five years ago, we find much more regimentation involved, instead of leaving it up to the Commander.

In my personal opinion, this is, to be quite frank, a step backwards.

[Taxi2parking]

yeah mate but they did use to crash a lot more then.......:rolleyes:


...my company uses the maker's "demonstrated" (which all comes down to getting lawyers writing AFMs I guess..... :ugh:) crosswind as a limit with additional factoring for poor braking action and LVTOs.

[Glonass]

Maximum allowable wind speeds when landing weather minima are predicated
on autoland operations: crosswind 25 knots

For the rest it is up to you based on recomendations of the FCTM as mentionned above by platespinner.

[westinghouse]

hi,

A340 - 27 gusting to 33 kts
A330 - 32 gusting to 40 kts
auto land- 20 kts

[safetypee]

See Safety aspects of aircraft operations in crosswind. (http://www.nlr-atsi.com/publications.php)(2001)
Max, some good observations.
Many aircraft provide pilots with the ‘feel’ that they will be able to manage crosswinds in excess of the advised limit.
The 146/RJ crosswind limit considered a wide range of operations – approaching the runway, flare and touchdown, and then staying on the runway, and included a range of configurations (flaps / engines / weight) for most operating surfaces – gravel, rough strip. IIRC the significant aspect of the RJ was retaining ‘adequate’ control in the turbulence which could be encountered in 35 kts crosswinds.
A critical point is just after touchdown where more rudder may be required to maintain direction; rudder effectiveness reduces with speed, thus more deflection may be required either to stay straight or correct a deviation; if you have used max rudder in the flare then there may not be anything else to help you remain on the runway.