U2 @ Akrotiri

[621andy]

After rushing over to Akrotiri to see the Arrers practising, I witnessed a Nimrod landing, followed 10 minutes later by a black U2...:ok:

Without endangering (inter-)national security, are the U2s regular visitors, or did I just get lucky to see one?:8

I did miss the Reds though, only managed to see 'em doing their stuff from a distance:{

Andy

[ZH875]

They quite ofte........Aaaaaggggghhhhh Black Omega Syndrome

[advocatusDIABOLI]

No, U2's NEVER visit Cyprus...... what you saw was a weather balloon. A very modern one, to be sure, but a Weather Balloon.

Advo

[senga]

SSSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!
it's top secret (http://u2sr71patches.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/1sters.htm)!!!

[splitbrain]

There was never one there during my tour.

Damned loud noise early in the morning though :confused:

[621andy]

Aaaah, so they're common as muck then:hmm: wondered why no-one else looked interested;) Have to try and get a better pic next time then:E

Thanks for the link- interesting stuff!

[senga]

just remember..... I didn't tell you.... ok?












oooh look, there's someone at the do..........

[Wensleydale]

No U2 for a while until they replace the guitars that were auctioned last week.:O

[The Helpful Stacker]

Many a cracking night spent in the Triple A but as most have said, no U2's at all, what-so-ever, no-way-no-how, fly out of Akrotiri regularly.

Oh and getting a ride in the Impreza down the Akrotiri runway doesn't happen either.;)

[Bigt]

Seem to recall a `weather balloon` having a mishap on landing/taking off some years ago causing abit of damage to RAF property

[Wrathmonk]

Not only damage to property but also killed six people (weather balloon pilot, senior met officer and 4 locally employed civilians).:(

[DON T]

Believe the pilot was called Al Henderson, an American who had previously played rugby for Akrotiri Flamingos.

The day previous to the accident, the Daily Telegraph had printed an article saying that the British Government denied that a U2 was stationed at Akrotiri. Mind the one that took off in the morning wasn't usually the one that returned at night but my american mates on Olive Harvest would never back that up.

[ORAC]

Regular pilots at the time had just been cleared to go off SBA and had an accident, rolled car, killing one school teacher, and were in hospital.

Replacement pilot tried the spiral climb over quarters trick - hoofed it left on rotation and stalled/side slipped into the ground. Impacted beside the tower and two underwing tanks went on into the Ops block. Explosion took out the bottom of the tower and all comms, but the guys in local were OK.

IIRC someone (rock ape?) got a medal for fast thinking and driving a vehicle through the rear wall of the Ops block to let those trapped inside out.

The seat was left tarpaulined for a couple of days until they flew in a specialist to safe it.

Luckiest guys were a Vulcan crew who had also had a car crash the previous day. They were at TPMH, otherwise they would have been in Ops briefing.
.

[reynoldsno1]

There were never, ever, any U-2s at Akrotiri during the 70's either, and nor did one crash into the Ops building....

[wokkameister]

U2 at Akrotiri? Don't care for their music much

[Tandemrotor]

I'm sure you guys are absolutely correct, and no such Harvest of Olives ever operated there.

I just want to know who all the guys were that used to wear those T-shirts saying: "If we're not really here, then where the f@*k are we?"

[Zoom]

I never saw one at Akrotiri. But then, I have never been to Akrotiri.

[phil gollin]

I thought there were no U-2s around anymore, just TR-1s ??????

[Gainesy]

And the Lady's Mile Motor-Glider Club wasn't there in 1970 either, so that game of tactical baseball (down a tinny at each base) must have been a bad dream.:suspect:

[Gaz ED]

It's a U2-S, I believe. At least it looked like one, when I was (!) sat in the passenger seat of a BMW chasing it down the runway!

That tubey food is gopping!

[gijoe]

Where can you get tickets? :=

[TEEEJ]

I thought there were no U-2s around anymore, just TR-1s ??????
All TR-1s were redesignated U-2Rs back in the early 90s. All U-2s now in USAF service are the re-engined/updated S models from those R airframes.

[Gaz ED]

SIGINT stuff...

http://jya.com/usic08.htm :eek:

[Northern Circuit]

Spent many a time watching the ickle subaru imprezza wagon car mess the timing up for the thing to go round again to land again.


what happened to the bemar?

[Regie Mental]

Never saw a U-2. Only yanks I saw were all wearing Hawaiian shirts in the Mess. Come to think of it, it was always on a Friday too.

[Lukeafb1]

And I can reliably inform everyone, that no U2 ever flew from RAF Watton. This was confirmed at the time by a broadcast by the PM in which he confirmed in parliament, that no U2 has ever flown from a RAF base. I didn't hear all of the broadcast, because that night, there was a lot of noise on the runway.:E

[aviate1138]

"This was confirmed at the time by a broadcast by the PM in which he confirmed in parliament, that no U2 has ever flown from a RAF base." from Luke......
What about Sculthorpe in the late 80/early 90's? And Marham? Bentwaters? Along with F-117A's? Those were the days. :)
Aviate 1138

[camlobe]

I can confirm that there were absolutely no, non, ziltch U2's at Akrotiri in the '80's when we visited often and regular.

Did see the all-black weather balloons a lot though. Seem to remember a veryyy nice V8 engined pick-up used for chase back then.

Strangest thing I ever did see in aviation in about '87. A weather balloon doing circuits and bumps. All morning. Not the usual noise at 0-early o'clock. One of the guys took some great pics of the weather balloon. Never saw the prints though.
And besides, if there were U2's based there and not weather balloons, we wouldn't have been allowed to take pictures of them, would we?

What was that? Not supposed to take pi....... Oh. Damn.

Also remember the 'T' shirts.

camlobe

[LXXIV]

From the London Gazette:
The QUEEN has been graciously pleased to approve the
following awards:
Queen's Gallantry Medal
Flight Lieutenant Bernard John Michael LIMB (506099), Royal Air Force.
Flight Lieutenant Bernard John Michael Limb has served as an Operations Officer at Royal Air Force Akrotiri since July 1977. On 7th December 1977, an aircraft of the United States Air Force crashed onto the station operations complex spreading burning fuel and debris over a large area. Flight Lieutenant Limb was in the operations compound when the crash occurred and was injured, his head and legs being burned. His clothing caught fire and he also
suffered a deep gash on the leg. Ignoring his own injuries, his first thoughts were for the safety of the two operations clerks, Senior Aircraftwoman Battye and Senior Aircraftman Watt, whom he knew to be in the burning operations room at the time of the crash. He ran along the building's rear corridor to the security door at the back of the operations room and called to the clerks. Finding that they were both alive but trapped, he instructed them to lie on the floor breathing fresh air under the door whilst he tried to release them. Flight Lieutenant Limb then entered the adjoining briefing room and tried to climb through the projection hatch, approximately 9 feet above floor level, to reach the operations room. He was, however, driven back by the heat and fell to the floor, injuring his ankle. He then summoned assistance, instructing his helpers to try to gain access through the side walls of the building Only when this work was in progress did he allow himself to be taken away for medical attention. Flight Lieutenant Limb displayed remarkable resourcefulness and courage in attempting to rescue the trapped personnel despite his own shock and injuries and with complete disregard for his own safety.
Queen's Commendation for Brave Conduct
E8115645 Senior Aircraftman Michael George WATT, Royal Air Force.
For courage and gallantry of a very high order displayed when he and a companion were trapped inside a burning building following an aircraft crash.

[green granite]

They used to spend hours doing PFLs at RAE Bedford, usualy a twin seater.

[threeputt]

Whilst detached to the island in the sun, in early '75 on Ex Forearm, I once spent a cracking Saturday afternoon being shown around a weather balloon by one of the weather balloon pilots. Can't remember his name but he had two mates who sat in the bar, drinking coke and looking very intimidating.
We had spent a convivial lunchtime in the mess (O club)and I recall sitting in the seat of this weather balloon thinking "what am I doing in one of these with a brandy sour in my hand and about 15 more inside me?"
Turns out that weather balloons have control columns identical to the C-130! Odd that :ok:

Happy Days

3P

[forget]

Turns out that weather balloons have control columns identical to the C-130!

So they do! Well close.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/U-2S20Dragonlady2.jpg

[ACW599]

Must be what a Vigilant looks like when it grows up :-)

[DON T]

These posts bring back memories some not so good. I was on duty at TPMH as Hospital Duty NCO when Al Henderson, the pilot, was brought in and we had to place him in the mortuary. I didn't know him personally but some of my friends were his personal friends. A very sad day, he was a great guy. The Met man was severely burned and despite surviving for two or three days unfortunately died.

In typical RAF humour at the time, everyone was very jealous of SAC Watt getting an award. Rumour has it he protected SACW Gill Battye from the flames by lying next to her. Gill Battye was ultra gorgeous. I hope you are all right Gill, like everyone else at the time at Akrotiri, you were a good sport.

[BDiONU]

In typical RAF humour at the time, everyone was very jealous of SAC Watt getting an award. Rumour has it he protected SACW Gill Battye from the flames by lying next to her. Gill Battye was ultra gorgeous. I hope you are all right Gill, like everyone else at the time at Akrotiri, you were a good sport.
Now I'm going to give away my ultra secret PPrune identity (like I didn't when I posted my picture in that forum DOH!) :ouch: I was (am?) that SAC Watt, retired from the RAF after 25 years having reached Flt Sgt Air Traffic Controller, now working for NATS.
It is indeed true that my award was for shielding Gill (read lying on top of her) from all the burning debris falling on us from roof level and the heat of the flames coming down the stairs toward us. What could anyone be jealous of there ;) AFAIK she married one of the Americal officers who was not there and now lives in the US of A.

I raise my hat to the Regiment guys who carried a landrover up the stairs into the foyer and drove it through the wall to get us out (we'd been trapped for 25 minutes by then). Thanks to DON T and all the medical staff who looked after us so well, particularly as I couldn't use my hands for a while.

BD

[forget]

'Morning Mr Watt, and well done! What's this -

I raise my hat to the Regiment guys who carried a landrover up the stairs into the foyer and drove it through the wall to get us out

Brilliant stuff - how much more can you tell us? Air transportable model surely.

[BDiONU]

Brilliant stuff - how much more can you tell us? Air transportable model surely.
LOL!! It was 1977 so yes it was yea olde skinny rover. Gill and I were working in the Operations room (Bernie Limb QGM had gone out for a pee) when the fireball came through the front and trapped us inside. We retreated into a little room at the back but it had a 1/2 inch steel security door which was locked (you'll find special catches fitted to enable you to release such doors now). I couldn't get the key, I tried but it was in the other room which was pitch black by now and filled with smoke. So we lay on the floor breathing through the gap (and persuading the firemen to stop spaying water as it was closing the gap) waiting to get out. I dunno what plan was being hatched but the Regiment guys solved it in a very practical manner :ok: Although the MTO threatened to charge the driver with damaging a vehicle afterwards :*

BD

[DON T]

Good to hear you are keeping well BD.

Going slightly off track, one of the pilots who was injured in the car crash that necessitated the replacement pilot, underwent an operation at TPMH. The US Gonernment insisted that an american was present during the operation and while he came round from the anaesthetic. They thought he might spill the beans or something worse about the U2.:ugh:

[Lukeafb1]

Aviate1138,
What about them?
The PM in question was MacMillan and the date was 1963!:}
Get a grip laddie!

[adrian mole]

Nice to see Bernie Limb got a mention - nice guy and well deserved. I was there at the time. The RAF Regt guy in fact was an off-duty RAF Fireman but they too wore the Regt flash. He commandeered a landrover and rammed the Ops building I seem to recall.

[BDiONU]

Nice to see Bernie Limb got a mention - nice guy and well deserved.
Very well deserved, he tried to save my life :ok: Last time I met him was years ago and some people on this forum will know him very well, he was a Sqn Ldr C130 Nav.
The RAF Regt guy in fact was an off-duty RAF Fireman but they too wore the Regt flash. He commandeered a landrover and rammed the Ops building I seem to recall.
No he really was a rock (I lived in the same block as the firemen and movers), they had an Ops room in the Operations Centre, same as the Police. If Ollie had crashed 10 mins later a heck of a lot more people would have been caught up as the crash zone took in the car park and most people started work at 7am. The first person through the hole in the wall was an LEC (Locally Employed Civilian) fireman (in the picture in the grey suit on the right).
Dug out a picture of Gill and I at the firemans xmas party which was just before we were flown home.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/BDiONU/Cyprus.jpg

BD

[Green Flash]

The Met Office social association have an annual award in memory of the forecaster who was killed.
An airfield 'somewhere in Europe' uses an AMG:} when the balloon goes up. Or rather down.

[ihoharv]

flew with him several times. What a great guy.
IIRC he had a brother also as a Nav on 47 Sqn?

[LXXIV]

Bernie was a nav on 47 Squadron, certainly in 1982.

[harrogate]

We used to see F-117s night flying from Binbrook in the late 80s. It was meant to be a secret because armed chaps blocked the road to crash gate 3, but just about everyone in the village saw them. They weren't official at the time.

My grandad took a photo of one, for which he achieved fame in his village (North Thoresway... where everyone knew him anyway).

It's the only thing I've asked for in his will :)

[wilmot]

I worked on 56F Sqn (F4 Wattisham) all through the mid 80's as a ground engineer and our Aircraft used to que up behind it ( Big Black thing with long thin wings, with sticks with wheels on the end hanging dowm, two hugh engines...) most mornings to take- off.... but ask the 'Yanks' in the Bar in the evening and nothing of the sort happened..... Totally Brainwashed or just 'American':ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[forget]

two huge engines Specsavers in Cyprus?

[chopper2004]

Hi all

Daft question, but there's never been a big secret about U-2/TR-1 ops out of Akrotiri...i mean I recall various articles in magazines such as Air Forces Monthly in the 80s and think the US Airpower in Europe special by AFM mentioned U-2 det at Akrotiri!!:ok:

Think it was mentioned in the whopping great 80s publication by Salamander called The US War Machine.

I still wish the 501st CSW at Alconbury would re activate the runway like back 15 years ago, as I remember driving past there and seeing the U-2s of the then 10th TRW

[Gainesy]

there's never been a big secret about U-2/TR-1 ops out of Akrotiri

There was in the 1970s.:suspect:

[melmothtw]

Was living in Akrotiri from 1993 to 1995 and regularly saw U-2's coming and going.

[HaveQuick2]

Weather Balloon!

http://www.cuisineconsultancy.co.uk/images/weatherballoon.jpg

[callsign Metman]

The Met Office sports and social association have an annual award in memory of the forecaster who was killed.
.

Quite true...The Jack Flawn Trophy
Awarded for the promotion of awareness of meteorology in sporting or leisure activities.

Four locally employed civilian met staff also perished that day. They were :-
G. Gostanian, G. Hannis, P. Panayi, and A. Televantos

CM

[Monkey Madness]

I've a nice photo of a formation of two "weather balloons" at Akrotiri - the first ever outside the USA.... if the third one that was working Akrotiri Director, had been a bit quicker coming down it would have been the first ever three ship (so I am told)


Don't know how to get it on here though

MM

[chevvron]

Hope they removed the towbar from the rear wheels before he rolled.
Was at Akrotiri with cadets Apr '86. On the beach near the harbour, it was great fun to see the 'TR 1' on final and dozens of cadets pointing their cameras at it, with the ACLO running about telling them not to take pictures!!

[Rigger1]

Just like to point out that if the U2 was at Ak - which it isn't, then lots of people would get a ride in the nice fast car when it lands - which it doesn't cause it isn't there. And that ride would be really good fun and a once in a lifetime experience to see a jet nearly land on your bonnet (or hood as the yanks call it). But I haven’t done it (twice), never ... right!

[asiaseen]

When I passed through Akrotiri in the period 1964-66, the U2s were operated by the CIA. The pilots never socialised and always went everywhere in twos (including, probably, the bog). In 1974 at the time of the Turkish invasion, they were USAF aircraft and the crews, led by Col Gary Powers (not the Gary Powers, or so he said) were very sociable indeed and happy to let us climb over their aircraft.

[splitbrain]

Daft question, but there's never been a big secret about U-2/TR-1 ops out of Akrotiri...i mean I recall various articles in magazines such as Air Forces Monthly in the 80s and think the US Airpower in Europe special by AFM mentioned U-2 det at Akrotiri!!:ok:

Think it was mentioned in the whopping great 80s publication by Salamander called The US War Machine.

Correct, Olive Harvest is an overt operation as we were constantly told during my time at RAF Butlins-on-med. You can even buy the T-Shirts....

TEE SHIRTS ETC (http://www.u2sr71patches.co.uk/teeshirts.htm)

Try and get too close to one of their big black machines howver...well thast a different story :=

[Something witty]

Recall a pretty windy day, very low cloud and and even lower U2, COCISS and appearing in my wing mirror just above the trees and buildings as I drove into wind along the A420 outside Swindon. He drew and stayed level with me for quite a bit - didn't have all that much overtake;). Im crap at judging height and I know it's a deceptivly big a/c but I'd be surprised if he was any higher than 3-400 ft... clearly though, he was on his way to/from the US and had must have had altimatry problems as they never operate out of UK...

[KeepItTidy]

I would be more worried the fact the CIA have now tracked your post and have cancelled all your credit cards , removed your identity from interpol and made you number 2 most wanted spy next to Billy Bin Laden :ok:


good luck on lasting the next 48 hours as Jason Bourne has your details :E

[FlapJackMuncher]

Been living at AKR for 7 years.
Never seen one. :(

[Ogre]

I spent a couple of weeks in Akrotiri on a Det from Lossiemouth. We arrived around lunchtime on the first day, so we got stuck into setting up even though the rest of the station went home shortly afterwards! Two of us were driving around looking for Ground Eng to pick up some Houchins and parked up to ask directions. We just got out of the rover when this nice RAF officer came round the corner of the hanger we were parked outside. We asked if he could direct us to GE, and the reply was along the lines of, "Yes just get into the vehicle and drive because if you sit there much longer you'll have some long discussions with some of our American friends who live in the hanger you're parked next to. Oh and don't park there again, or leave a vehicle there unattended...."
Like you all say, there are no U2s in Akrotiri, I remember the plod in the land rover driving down the pan telling me this, just after he told me to turn round and lie face down until something that wasn't there went past. :oh:

[Al R]

As the stn Rock sqn, we used to vist the hanger frequently (invariably at 0300) to have an official rummage around, check arcs, approach routes, entry points, likely enemy positions etc. God, the noise that thing generated ot 0640.. in fact, the inly time I ever heard a louder groan based on the noise that an aeroplane generated were the C5s and various helicopters that always seemed to be there in the mid 80s, in connection with Libya and the Achilli Lauro. But of course, Delta Force was never there and if they had been, they certainly wouldn't have tried to swap kit with the likes of me.

Interesting to read the tale of the crash - although before my time there, we did have someone on the sqn who was caught up in it during his previous tour. He got blown into a dustbin and damaged his back. Olive Harvest piss ups were pretty good and made a nice change, B52s and Depthcharge cocktails are remembered with much affection still and I have loads of shots take in the club - lots of dodgy haircuts and loud Limassol shirts. The women were pretty hideous though.

In fact, on one occasion, we weren't invited to the 4th July do, so we held a rival one at the Pen Club and branded it as a VC night. We turned NBC suits inside out, ripped up some bamboo lie lows and made them into conical VC hats, flip flops, tin AK47s and of course.. lots of Anglias brandy. Things went sour when we held a swallow diving competition into that big bush from the old PS bar roof and sustained an injury. We used to welcome the OH lot into the block whenever possible and they bought some great booze stashes. All in all, great lads.

If they had existed of course. Perhaps I just imagined the entire 4 years.

[gsora]

Whilst servicing a 56 F6 in a certain hanger at Akers in `74, I and my mates noticed a large black balloon at the other end, unattended.
Being curious we all had a good look around it inc. the basket.
Outside were several burly Americans in civilian clothing they had not noticed us go in! We completed the service and left, the look on their faces was a picture!
The balloon had two large gas tanks which could be mistaken for engines!

[BEagle]

But of course, Delta Force was never there and if they had been, they certainly wouldn't have tried to swap kit with the likes of me.

Of course there weren't...... Neither were there any SEALs guarding the 'biscuit factory' at B****y.










They were all up at the Mull of Kintyre, playing with weird Wally's wacky wirelesses.

[Krueger Flap]

Well the security standards have certainly come down since the Cold War days then. On a S**** T**** det from Lossie a couple of years ago, one of the returning Tonkas went u/s so we hangared it overnight opposite Olive Harvest. Noticing their hangar doors open with the resident at home, I wandered over to ask their techies if I could have a look. As I approached the red line, my lot were expecting me to get arrested or shot at any moment. Nothing of the sort happened and I was treated to an up close tour of the ac, cockpit and all, in exchange for a look at our GR4 - good swap I thought! ;)

[wclark1238]

Despite representations to the contrary on several postings on this thread the 2 'tanks' slung under the wings on a U-2 are not for holding fuel. They are called superpods and generally contain lots of SIGINT sensors however they are optional depending on the sensor payload of the mission aircraft. Some U-2 missions are/were flown with a slick wing configuration.

It's a great aircraft. I had the pleasure of working on sensor and datalink systems on them (based out of RAF Alconbury) from 1990 to 1994 when they left Alconbury. I had a great time and worked with some real characters many of whom had been with the programme for many, many years and who had fantastic stories to tell.

One of my former colleagues (a civilian contractor) left Alconbury to go to an island somewhere in the med that is/was known as Det 3 in the U-2 world :ok:. When I later went there on holiday I contacted him and we spent a very enjoyable evening out in town - Brandy Sours all around.

[EyesFront]

There's an interesting U2 story in the current Air & Space magazine - also on the website at:

Above & Beyond: I Have a Flameout | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Above__Beyond_I_Have_a_Flameout.html)

The last time I was at Akrotiri (3-4 years ago) we were assured that the U2's that hadn't been there in previous years definitely weren't there now. A couple of days later the most almighty jet noise had us rushing out of the accommodation early in the morning. Something black appeared to be spiralling upwards, but was almost out of sight. As it can't obviously have been a U know what, I assumed it was some sort of bird scarer...

[wilmot]

I was on 56F 84-87, and our F4's used to que up on the runway to take off behind those planes that didn't exsist.......Funny lot used to Herc in loads of Coke and Big Macs...........Top diet.........:suspect::eek::confused:

[EyesFront]

loads of Coke and Big Macs...........Top diet.........


Guess that explains why they needed such enormous wings to get off the ground...

[7of9]

I was 14 years old on the day the "Weather Balloon" crashed, remember going to school in Episkopi that morning & one of the girls being a bit upset, found out later her father was one of the casualties killed in the accident.

The weather balloon used to wake us up at around 06.55 am most weekday mornings & it used to throw a great big shadow as it decended to the runway in the afternoons over Buttons Bay while we were swimming.............:}:}:}

Never saw sight or sound of Bono or his mates though..............

[Logistics Loader]

Was on det there in 1981 for a week... it existed then..
posted there 1995-98... still existed.....

Why...??

i aksed the question to one of there support tem.. a Master Sgt... who i got to know very well as mover invariably helped to unload the c141 resupply run...

Under the SALT agreement, the "balloon" was sent there...

Loudest "balloon" in history though.... the Beemer was still in use 95-98....
Such a high spec a/c but only fitted with stabilisers... oddly same as the Harrier !!!

a Google search for SALT surely show it up...!!
think i'll look now!!!!

[goudie]

As I was going up the stairs
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that he would go away!

[Logistics Loader]

check this link out

RAF Akrotiri (Hansard, 15 June 1990) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1990/jun/15/raf-akrotiri)

so it aint a big deal after all...

if in doubt ??

ask !!! or
seek and ye shall find...!!!

as already explained... loud balloon that you couldn't really hide !!

i can smell the early morning coffee...!!!

more chance of seeing a U2 in AKT than the RAF AT fleet from BZZ !!

[PICKS135]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/f4phixeruk/USAFAircraftIDChart.jpg

[taxydual]

I was a Runway Caravan Controller at one stage in my career. I received a telephone call one morning instructing me not to look at the black thing that was lining up on the runway.

Thirty years on, I'll come clean. Tee Hee, DSATCO, I looked!!!

[om15]

1974, Aircraft Repair Flight 103 MU did manage to zap a day glo Noddy (with spanner) on the fin,
BR
om15

[Lurking123]

We used to play battleships with them on the radio.

[Pontius Navigator]

Jun 08, Ladies Mile, same time every ****ing at **** sometimes headed west other times east. For the westerly take-off it would swing to the south and out of sight after about 5 minutes.

[PICKS135]

Could this be a weather balloon. The one with the Black and Yellow tail ????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/f4phixeruk/u2inthemed.jpg

[Green Flash]

The black and yellow tail, you say?

No, can't be, it's far too high for that type of weather balloon:E

[TEEEJ]

The clue as to why the U-2 was based at RAF Akrotiri was always in the name of the detachment Operation Olive Harvest.

A CIA document 'The CIA and the U-2 Program, 1954-1974' compiled in 1998 has been declassified. Although parts of it are blanked out, it doesn't take much to fill in the blanks. An very interesting read even though parts of it are blanked out.

It can be found at various locations on the web by typing in the title. One link is here. Download 9.30mb

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2.pdf

From

The CIA and the U-2 Program, 1954-1974 (http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2-index.htm)

'Originally classified Secret NOFORN. (Now UNCLASSIFIED)
Chapter 5
Page 256 and 257

The Middle East was again the cause of a Detachment G deployment in October 1973, when another Arab-Israeli war broke out. Two U-2s deployed XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (Blanked out) on 7 and 8 October 1973, to be ready for possible coverage of the conflict. Detachment G received no such tasking, however, and the last of the aircraft returned to California on 13 November.

The 1973 war did lead to the overseas deployment of Detachment G U-2s in 1974, when the CIA was tasked to monitor the Israeli-Egyptian and later the Israeli-Syrian disengagement areas. On 21 April 1974, a Detachment G U-2 with appropriate support elements arrived at XXXXXXXX(Blanked out) to conduct Operation XXXXXXXXXXX (Blanked out) Between 12 May and 28 July, the detachment conducted six overflights of the disengagement areas. During these missions the electronic warning systems of the U-2 registered numerous radar lockons, but no surface-to-air missiles were fired. On 1 August 1974, responsibility for the XXXXXXXXXX (Blanked out) missions as well as the aircraft itself came into the hands of the Air Force as part of the transfer on the entire Agency U-2 program at that time.'

Page 255 and 256 also highlights the previous CIA U-2 detachments to cover the Middle East for peace mediation. It details the involvement of President Nixon's National Security Advisor, Henry A. Kissinger and also previous CIA detachments to the blanked out operating base. You can also see the details about the earlier Detachment G deployments to the blanked out location for peace monitoring of the earlier Arab-Israeli conflicts.

TJ

[Biggles225]

IIRC someone took quite a blasting over the Snoopy on the tail of that balloon! That was a while ago in the 70s when they werent there either!

I and several other friends regularly sailed with the Senior Met Officer Jack Flawn, a wonderful man sorely missed. Im glad there is something permanent to remember him.

[Harris1211]

I'm pretty sure that I didn't see a weather balloon taking off from Brize Norton and doing some circuits, while I wasn't on a mid-afternoon exercise with the Space Cadets... :hmm:

[TEEEJ]

Some markings on a U-2S on transit through the UK. Nice to see some banter between enthusiasts, Pilots and ground crews. :D

FighterControl • Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast • View topic - MikeB on a U-2.... [Video & Recordings] (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=20862)

TJ

[Tashengurt]

I definately remember not seeing one at Sculthorpe about '89. Didn't see the crew using their daft Mustang or whatever for chippie runs either.

[aviate1138]

In '89 I had just departed my pal's airstrip at Langham and was aiming for Old Sarum via scumbling round various zones [In my CFM Shadow 3 axis micro] when I glanced up and did not see the underside of a high aspect ratio black machine lowering its way to Sculthorpe. Later that same year I was approaching and cleared overhead Marham at 4000 feet enroute Pocklington when I didn't see yet another high aspect ratio device that had lifted off and was pointing at our two machine loose group [Shadow, Streak] so I advised Marham that I had this device visual and it was getting ever bigger and still aiming at us! Marham told me he was doing circuits at 2000 feet and at that moment he levelled off and my blood pressure approached normality.

Then at night near Leiston Suffolk [Bentwaters nearby] seeing the cluster of lights and with the moon behind not seeing another type of pointy weather balloon wheels down on approach was great fun.

[gunbus]

Beware,extraordinery rendition!!:E

[Al R]

Some might remember the fight at The Pen Club in the 80s, involving 111 Sqn and 34 Sqn RAF Regt, in which some OH blokes also got involved (to their detriment). Some might remember the aftermath, during which a certain CO got a visit from Nicosia asking why the US recce capability in the Middle East that day, had been scrubbed due to his 'brutal thugs'. It almost got him sent home. I say 'might' because it never happened of course. They complained about our alternative 5th July do as well.. we probably didn't do Anglo/US relations much good in those days.

I don't remember nights in the AAA bar either. No, THEY actually did happen, but I really don't remember them. I have happy memories of many Bacon and Haloumi butties in 'the' hanger with the guys as the warm breeze drifted in. I remember the medics getting to grips with new resus procedures in the event of a crash, and the fact that in those days, pre flight briefing seemed to involve every flight getting maps of the world drawn from the map store in Ops. This, due to Opsec and the fact that nowhere was not available if needed.

Now, what were those cocktails called..? They involved a Creme de Menthe depth charge being dropped into a spirit mix, in a Gill measure.

[matkat]

And I don't remember a weather baloon with a snooppy painted on it next to me whilst ground running a phantom in the mid 80s

[MichaelBuckle]

And I don't remember a weather baloon with a snooppy painted on it next to me whilst ground running a phantom in the mid 80s

A weather balloon definitely not similar to this... which was definitely not taken at Fairford earlier in the year.

http://www.michaelbuckle.co.uk/images/published/642784815.jpg

[Floppy337]

I seem to remember visiting OH detachment where we were shown around their aircraft in an exchange visit. They threw a sheet around the cockpit to prevent us stealing their "secrets".

When they visited us up the mountain (OLYMPUS- reason for the exchange), I remember we had a curtained area for communications and we placed a chair on top of a coffee table, shrouded it with a blanket, closed the curtains and frustrated the OH Crew and Support teams by refusing to disclose what was underneath the blanket after leaving the curtain slightly open.....childish I know but fun all the same.....

The most fun would be denying to Nicosia ATC (they used DME except for local ATC radars) that we had anything to do with that great rocket noise that most of Paphos and Limassol had heard Lol

1985-1988!!

[Ancient Squipper]

Whilst on a 56(F) APC detachment to Akrotiri I was walking with three others from the airfield gate towards the Survival Equipment Section (OPS block area) to start work for 7am.
As we passed the hangers the very young rather naive airman who was with us and on his first Cyprus detachment suddenly started hallucinating .

"A spaceman a spaceman I've just seen a spaceman he was shouting.

Of course none of us had seen one.
We had to explain to him that it must have been the result of his first encounter with the joy and perils of Keo/ brandy sours/kokinelli the previous evening and that such apparitions could become quite common during the 6 week detachment.

I think that we managed to convice him.
But why did those noisy spaceships have to take off so early?

[LowObservable]

Squipper wins 2 internetz. A spaceman!!!

[staplefordheli]

I was lucky enough to see one in the early 90s at Waddo after I took my then pre school son over to the public viewing area to watch the usual nothing happening:rolleyes:

No one about at the old pre tarted up car park but then a guy turned up and asked if anything unusual had come in. Nope nothing in the last hour but in the space of half hour, the place went mad to the point that the local plod took over traffic control on the A15:eek: Then the hanger doors opened and there it was, complete with the usual circus as it took of to the west form teh A15 threshold givinga perfect view

There must have been a few snaps taken that day. I gather the fog prevented it landing at Alconbury over night so it dropped in to Waddo for some B and B:ok:

[oldmansquipper]

Ancient, The lad was not suffering from Keo/sours etc...just the Tric fumes coming from the QRF cleaning "safety tin" Tric being used to clean the SE section floors in prep for another VIP visit I expect..........:(

Happy days!!

Bet my "Oldman" trumps your "Ancient"....

[oldmansquipper]

Whilst on exercise `somewhere` with the Jags in the 80s we were invited to view the local threat museum one `down` day. There had been rumours of complete eastern bloc airframes to see. We were so dissapointed seeing only 40s technology soviet radar and AAA, plus a couple of WWII tanks, that we asked the very smart and heavily armed security trooper where all the `jets` were.... His polite reply was along the lines of "Sir - there are no aircraft here, SIR!" This was shortly followed by a crisp salute and the words "But......If you take the second door on the right on your way out, you will see....erm...no jets" We then spent several happy hours clambering over ....erm...nothing...All very interesting.

[Lima Juliet]

Stuffing tubes near your Johnson just to go flying is no way of life - I thought RAF pee bags and goon bag tubes were bad enough until I saw what this lot had to contend with! :eek:

[Bicster]

I certainly did not see a black glider like thing outside the 51 sqn hangar at Wyton in the early 1990's one night. I didnt see a bloke in a space suit emerge from it either. Never asked and still cant figure out why it was there as Alconbury was just down the road. Sorry about this entire post, it was just a very vivid dream, im not feeling very well and im lying my pants off too.

[Pontius]

Whilst nowhere near a fair way south of a certain Mediterranean island and certainly not waiting around 40000' for an unknown contact to descend to our level ('cos we certainly couldn't go where he was) and, of course, this was not 1991 with 'stuff' going on down the road, I happened to get a speck of dust on my F95 camera. Luckily that's all it proved to be and was definitely not a 'special flight' returning to a certain Mediterranean island :)

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/Redeyemarvel/scan0034.jpg

[500N]

Pontius

That is a top photo - and probably one of a kind being a Harrier with the US ?

.

[wclark1238]

I certainly did not see a black glider like thing outside the 51 sqn hangar ay Wyton in the early 1990's one night. I didnt see a bloke in a space suit emerge from it either. Never asked and still cant figure out why it was there as Alconbury was just down the road.

I came over to Wyton the next day to assist with recovery of that plane. :D The reason that it diverted to Wyton was simply because of crosswinds outside of safe limits at Alconbury. Not sure of the angular relationship of the Wyton runway versus that at Alconbury but that was the reason that it stopped off there rather than coming back home.

[Bicster]

Thank you wclark1238, thats put my mind at rest after all these years. I was an MT driver at Wyton on nights that night and someone said there was something rather special on the airfield so I had a drive up to see what it was. I remember stopping in my tracks when I saw it and thought I might be shooed away but wasnt so I hung around to see the pilot get out. All very exciting for a young airman as I was back then :ok:

[KPax]

I also remember 2 F3's asking if they could go and have a look at the incoming local, the pilot replied most certainly come up and join me in the descent, F3 pilot 'sounds good what is your level', FL 590 descending, ah says F3 pilot we might wait a while and then have a look.

[wclark1238]

Seems the limit for crosswind landings was/is 15 knots. Weather forecast for scheduled landing time was often the cause of aborted missions whilst I was at Alconbury. During my 4 plus years working on the programme I don't recall too many diversions, certainly the one to Wyton stands out in my memory because I went across to assist in the preparation for it to fly out again. The weather forecast checking during pre-flight meant that plenty never took off in the first place but not many didn't come home when expected.

Just found this link which might make interesting reading, particularly for the aviators amongst you.

www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2v3.pdf (http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/u2v3.pdf)

[Ancient Squipper]

OK Oldman see ya
Can you beat? Press ganged (National Service) in Mar 1959 as a F.C.W. Flying Clothing Worker. then a trade on it's own .
After taking SEW (P) and SEW(D) Parachute and Dingy courses at RAF Weeton. Then the Advanced Course which inclued painting and doping and fabric bashing to become one of the last Safety Equipment Worker J/Ts
(1964) Plus 45 years of Squippering 1959-2004

Removing polish off floors tried them all thinners - white spirit -Turps-
CTN yes but my favourite was always TRIC but it was a long time ago
Health and Safety whats that.

And yes the spaceman was a fully booted and spurred balloon driver.

So Oldman if you can trump me.

WISHING YOU A HAPPY CHRISTMAS. Ancient

[mahogany bob]

just read LXXIV' s info on the sad crash at Akrotiri on 7 dec 1977.

on that day I was co-pilot on a Nimrod crew from Malta due to take off at about 0900. As we left the mess we heard, and saw the smoke from, the crash.

obviously our sortie was cancelled but had we left about 10 mins earlier our crew would have been in met and the ops block , which were both badly damaged.Our secrets box in ops was destroyed -lady luck smiled on us that day!

as a follow up about a year later when 203 squadron was disbanded any documents which could not be immediately found were obviously in the Akrotiri ops fire and written off!! this caused quite a lot of embarrassment when they subsequently turned up!!

[APG63]

That is absolutely NOT what the chase vehicle is for. It's there because the visibility from the cockpit is so bad that judging height in the latter stages of landing is very difficult. Plus the main wheels have very little suspension and slowing it down is a trick. So, the chase is there to count down altitude to the pilot in feet so that he can feel his way onto the runway. Get that bit wrong and it will knock your fillings out.

Secondly, chase never tried to position itself under the wingtip of a moving U2/TR1. Your thinking of an old episode of Thunderbirds. It's a chase vehicle with a radio, not International Rescue. Hey, good idea for the SARH thread!!!

[Dengue_Dude]

You are all out of order. You should have stopped trying to be clever four pages ago. Understand the damage you can do by being so careless.

STOP NOW. As if it isn't too late already. Just don't do it to amuse yourselves.

Poke off . . . even the Yanks have written about it.

[BEagle]

The oldest TR1 pilot was 28 (if I remember correctly).The youngest was 24. The pilots were extremely unimpressed with what they did. Their job was purely to lift the A/C off the ground & fly it up to cruising altitude. They would then hand over control of the A/C to the pre-programmed navigational computer/ground control & try to cure their boredom by reading a book for the next few hours, whilst somebody else flew the A/C...

After several hours of looking through a space helmet their vision was severely impaired with "tunnel vision", hence the need for a chase vehicle with another TR1 pilot to talk the TR1 down on finals & support a wing.

Most of that is complete and utter bolleaux.

1. The average age of a U2 / TR1 pilot is much older than you state.
2. No-one flies the U2 who hasn't volunteered, passed stringent assessment and been accepted. They are all very proud of what they do.
3. The U2 flies to a very close margin between normal stall speed and shock stall speed, sometimes known as 'coffin corner'. To fly to such accuracy for hours on end mandates a very capable autopilot. The route was pre-defined; the U2 is not a 'manned drone'.
4. The purpose of the chase pilot and vehicle are emphatically not as you describe, but as APG63 describes.

But yes, you are right, quite a few U2 pilots read the odd novel at altitude whilst watching MiG-23s floundering about below them.

On a certain aircraft type I flew, we had a role similar to a certain USAF role and worked closely with our US colleagues. Amongst whom was an ex-U-2 pilot on a classified ground tour. At one of the locations of our US colleagues, a U-2 detachment shared the base. We were fortunate enough to be invited by our ex-U-2 chum to visit the U-2 det for a good look around the jet and to chat with the operators. A few days later, 2 of us were invited to watch the whole U-2 mission launch. We'd had a few beers with the pilot a day or so earlier - he was a bird colonel of less than youthful years. Obviously we couldn't attend the classified NOFOR mission brief itself, but we joined the pilot during the last few minutes of his pre-oxygenation, then followed him through environmental check out and his ride out to the jet (already checked with engine running). It took him less than a minute to strap in and be ready. Then a green light from the mission cell and off he went to the runway with us following in the chase car. On the runway, the chase belts down the runway doing a quick final FoD check, then turns back to sit where the U-2 pilot can see, before giving a thumb-up signal. Immediately the U-2 is slammed to max thrust and the chase sets off after it to recover the outrigger pogos.

By the time we got back to the det, the U-2 was already well out of sight. Then off we went to 'do breakfast' with our US host.

What the jet does is vaguely known. Where it does it and when is and must remain a closely guarded secret.

It was a huge privilege to have been given such an insight into the world of those who fly the U-2 - something I'll never forget.

[500N]

BEagle

Very interesting and as you say, a privilege.

re SAMXXV, I don't think many believe what he writes. After all, you only have to watch the James May / U2 Flight to see the whole process from start to finish to have some semblance of an idea of what goes on. And that's without even going to Youtube where multiple close up U2 Landings and take off's are shown.

SAM
With all the top class hardware the Yanks have, why would anyone do a flying job they didn't like when so many other "you beaut" options are available ? Especially if they are so young like you suggest ? :ugh:

[Mach Two]

BEagle. I concur entirely with what you say. A "few knots" between stall and transonic at very high altitude in a straight wing, powered glider. I too, support APG63's description of the purpose of the chase vehicle.

And, yes, all the guys on the programme that I met in various locations were older than their 20s and all fiercely proud of what they did. An utterly professional bunch of guys. 500N made that point very well.

[Bicster]

Thank you once again wclark1238, im not an aviator, well apart from flying a Slingsby Venture T2 solo for a circuit of RAF Cosford when I was 16 but ive always had a great interest in aviation which seems to take more of my time up the older I get. Many thanks for posting the link up, ill be happy enough tonight with a glass of wine reading through that.

[oldmansquipper]

:eek: Sir - I bow to your longevity - you truely are ancient!....I am well and truely trumped.

:ok:

[LowObservable]

And there is never a bad time to link to the most awesome flying video in the world in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamnTyfkUBY

[Wwyvern]

In the late 1960s/early70s, whilst I was on a visit to Akrotiri, the Station Commander arranged for a reception for a visiting US VIP (I think). He noticed that none of the US officers involved with the weather balloons was present, and despatched a minion to winkle them out. They arrived shortly thereafter, followed by several WRAF officers, some still buttoning up their blouses.

The book "By Any Means Necessary - America's Secret Air War" by William E Burrows (ISBN 0 09 943625 6) is an interesting read.

[flipster]

Re SMetO Jack Flawn.

Very sad - knew his wife, his son and daughter. The kids were about the same age as me. They were really good people but always had a slight sadness about them - understandably, of course - but at the time, I didn't realise why.
It was only when I flew into AKR, as a young co-pilot, I put 2 and 2 together and made the connection. I always thought of them whenever I visited the ops block and met by the tower.

The highly-regarded Jack Flawn was a keen sailor and lived in the same Welsh village as my parents. Now Jack, Vida and my folks are all buried close together in same beautiful churchyard overlooking the sea.

RIP

[oldmansquipper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamnTyfkUBY

I deduce from this vid that `wheels` up should be the primary mode....

I sympathise with the jocky though - I had similar difficulties with some of the early `Biiiiiiiiig span` sailplanes! :hmm:

[Mach Two]

I think I recall hearing (from one of the pilots) something like if they were 1-2 kts fast, they wouldn't touchdown until half way down the runway and would probably run off the end. 1-2 kts slow and they'd probably stall it on and lose their teeth. Looks like great fun. Hours of boredom followed by one of the hardest landings ever.

[truckie]

U-2 carrier take offs and landings - YouTube

[500N]

M2
Agree re Mad. Never seen the video before, it is very well done.

Re arrested landings, is the tail structure of the U2 strong enough ?

From memory I read something a long time ago that the tail is only held on with 3 bolts to help keep the weight down ????

[Mach Two]

Yes, 500N. I wondered about that too, but it looks like the hook is well forward. Probably because of what you say about the tail. To be honest, the whole thing isn't that strong. Certainly not built for carrier ops. Must have had a really small fuel load (watch the take off run) and may even have been stripped down. I shall do some research.

[jamesdevice]

anyone care to explain a U-2 flying south over Lancaster one sunny afternoon around ten years ago? Bright daylight, perfect visibility. High, but no so high that wing shape / size / engine confuguration / colour / tail arrangement were not clearly obvious.
Atlantic transit?

[Mach Two]

JD, well there were dome detachments here on an irregular basis. Go back to post 26 in this thread. THing is, it was so distinctive it was hard to hide, even though it has an amazing angle of climb.

[500N]

M2

Sorry, didn't see the video of the carrier landings on the previous page.
It certainly is forward, almost at the base of the wings.

Doesn't the U2 have a solid spar running from one side to the other and the wings are bolted on to the fuselage ? (My apologise for the very bad terminology). I'll see if I can find a reference.

Could the hook being so far forward be connected to this to stop it pulling the aircraft apart ?

.

[Green Flash]

James, whilst not wishing to dis your spotting prowess but it might also have been a Cosmic Harvester? Not totally unlike, at height?

[Mach Two]

That would make sense in all regards, 500N. And, yes, an arrestor needs to be bolted to structure. Even the F3's wasn't up to unlimited cable engagements. When we started to get pilots to to do an arrested landing before deploying to the Falklands, we discovered that the manufacturer had imposed a limit of 25 engements per airframe. As it turned out, it could take more than that, but it wasn't an F4 built for the carier. The hook for for emergencies that didn't happen every day.

[500N]

I couldn't find the ref i wanted, only in Wiki which I take with a grain of salt.


I did find this though re U2 carrier ops (plus other information)
" It was also decided to see if the U-2 could operate from an aircraft carrier. A U-2 was equipped with a strengthened tail and an arrestor hook. A set of wing spoilers was also added to ensure the aircraft could actually land accurately on the flight deck, rather than floating over the arrestor cables and the carrier capable aircraft were re-designated U-2Gs. One aircraft, Article 349, was AAR and carrier capable and was the only U-2H."

Lockheed U-2S (http://www.spyflight.co.uk/u-2s.htm)


A couple of good photos here
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - U-2 Aircraft Carrier Operations (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0050.shtml)

[Mach Two]

God, in one of those pictures it has the cable, but still airborne. That must have hurt. Good find.

[Green Flash]

JD - I think I saw a pic of one in AFM a year or two ago, passing through Mildenhall. Yes, i know it's basically a B57 airframe on steroids but with the wing mounted engines it could look from a distance like a Dragon with the wing pods. Check the NASA website http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/49586main_wb_2.jpg. Actually, the more I look at it, especially the wing shape, the less I'm sure. Oh, bu$$er, ignore everything after good evening then.

Possibly a U2 going up for a sniff at Machrihanish? Mahoosive track, no one for miles and some SEALs (in those days) to keep an eye on it should it have to stay? Can't think of a better place to have an out of the way div for such a beast. The place is now owned by HIAL and the killers have long since gone so I don't think they'll be one there any time soon. I'm sure I was told that they also shot approaches at Lossie/Kinloss too??

[Mach Two]

I sometimes have that problem. :)

[jamesdevice]

Green Flash - sorry, I though you were taking the p*** with the "Cosmic Harvester" comment. Didn't realise there was a real aircraft......Paranoias kicking in maybe, I though you were talking realms of psuedo-science. Apologies

I thought about a Canberra derivative, but the wing was wrong.

[Green Flash]

JD, no problem :ok:

[P6 Driver]

There are some (now ex) Air Cadets around who could tell the story of when they had a ride on the wing of a taxying aircraft at Akrotiri.

Exiting at the mid point, only one pogo could be fitted due to the width of the taxyway, and in order to hold down the non-pogoed wing, human ballast was used, lying on top. When I was there, a couple of ATC chaps had the ride of their life - and I bet many people would never believe them in the ensuing years!

[Out Of Trim]

I never got deafened by the black weather balloon at Akrotiri whilst plugging in the Runway Caravan prior to F-4 APC ops! :ooh:

[wclark1238]

anyone care to explain a U-2 flying south over Lancaster one sunny afternoon around ten years ago? Bright daylight, perfect visibility. High, but no so high that wing shape / size / engine confuguration / colour / tail arrangement were not clearly obvious.
Atlantic transit?

10 years ago? AFAIK there were no U-2s (permanently) based here then although temporary visits to RAF Fairford could easily fit that timeframe. Any such TDY deployments would likely come out of Beale AFB via a US east coast stop somewhere or, most likely, direct. In either case their likely track into Fairford could easily bring them down the UK west coast I'd have thought. So transiting Lancaster at altitude is not impossible.

[TEEEJ]

500N,

The following is a CIA declassified document on the U-2 carrier operations. It contains details of the modifications.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB184/FR24.pdf

From

The National Security Archive (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/)

[500N]

TEEEJ
Thanks. I am sure M2 and others will enjoy it as well.


No mention of the chase cars on the carrier deck to hold up the wings on landing:O

[Mach Two]

Yes, 500N. That is a fascinating document, TEEEJ. Thanks for posting.

Is that from your personal collection of stolen TS documents or was it really released?

Anyway, I'm off for a few days so see you all later! Be good while I'm away.

M2

[TEEEJ]

JD,

As wclark1238 has pointed out the U-2s can route in over the north west of the UK from the Atlantic.

The enthusiasts like to keep track of them. See following.

SBS-1 Mode-S / ADSB Virtual Radar : User Forum • View topic - Non Mode-S U2 in UK airpasce...tracked...how? (http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14797&start=0)

On Wednesday a U2 entered UK airspace from the north west , coming in off the Atlantic , bound for Fairford.

SBS-1 Mode-S / ADSB Virtual Radar : User Forum • View topic - U2 80-1070 (http://www.kinetic-avionics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10525)

Dragon 51 was tracked on Planeplotter from about 0800 when he first popped up off the west coast of Scotland at "above" FL600 He came down heading SSE and passed east abeam Wallasey around 0835 Descent was commenced over the N Lancs coast

[bobward]

Don't they transit through Fairford every so often?
There have certainly been pictures on the spotters websites of this happening

[500N]

SAM

"Not many USAF FJ pilots could endure that - but quite a number of (young) ex USAF personnel who were recruited by the CIA were up to scratch."

How can ex USAF be up to scratch but USAF FJ pilots not be ?

Are you saying the successful one's were not FJ pilots, just USAF pilots ?


Either way, it's a very general statement, bit like saying all orphans make good SF Soldiers because they are independent.


Re age, here are the ages of 2 CIA pilots who died.
"Carey was less than three weeks shy of his 34th birthday when he died. "
2nd one "He was 30 years old"

Gary Powers was 27 when he joined the CIA, having resigned the USAF as a Capt.

Are these the type of ages you were talking about ? I got the impression you were talking younger than that.


Also, how come in a list of U2 pilots, the majority tend to be Capt, Maj, a few 1 Lt and a few Lt Col's and Col's and a few Sqn Ldr's / Wg Cmd;s in there from the RAF. Now you don't make Capt / Maj by Aged 22.

SAM
Be very specific - What ages do you think most U2 pilots were ?

[cornish-stormrider]

And Sam's ravings continue as well.......

Pop Quiz - age of F.G. Powers when shot down "sausage side" ??

Sam - this is Pprune, there are some old farts on here with real, truthful and serious knowledge. They know what to brag about, what to talk about and what to keep shtoom about..............

And we haven't heard anything to corroborate your WIWAL bunker heroics.......Funny that.

[A2QFI]

As the U2 had no AAR capability how could a pilot have no human contact, physical or voice, for 24 hours, or what was that "Requirement" based on?

[APG63]

Guys,

Why are you asking SAM questions? He never responds to anything, just pitches up here every couple of days to deposit the latest piece of creative prose and disappears.

Look:

HELLO, SAM. WHAT DAY IS IT?

[500N]

Because I am twiddling my thumbs waiting for the US (or Israel) to drop Big Blu before the 15th December.

And SAM opened his mouth again with a definitive statement (Re Age of U2 pilots) that is worth probing further because quite a few people think he is wrong - as he has been on a few things re the U2, like what the chase cars do !!!

Gary Powers -30 or 31 years old ?

[Tourist]

Once again, SAM is talking tripe.

Interestingly (I thought), they don't have to have a USAF or FJ background either. When they looked after me (very well! though I would skip trying the toothpaste food next time) for a day there was one ex USN guy, a c130 guy a B52 guy and a couple of others I can't remember. I could be slightly out on the types but I remember thinking that it was a very diverse bunch. The USN guy had to join the USAF once accepted. They were certainly not young. It was an Evo chase car at the time where I got the back seat ride. Amazing how close they get to the exhaust, made the windscreen shake.

They said anyone could apply and then those that pass screening they let try to land it. Supposedly the trick is that you have to stall it on from about a foot and must land back rollerskate wheel first. If you don't it can go horribly wrong.

I strongly believe that what is given to the pilot as he exits the cockpit should be mandatory for all pilots on all flights!

[Courtney Mil]

Tourist,

I too was treated to a tour of their toys and recall pretty much the same as you. Did you get the story about the toothpaste tube pipe through the lip?

Anyway, all the evidence everywhere, and collective recollection points to the majority of these guys being a lot older than early 20s and from all sorts of backgrounds.

500N,

Yes, Gary Powers had his 31st birthday in a Soviet prison about 3 months after being shot down.

[500N]

SAM
Please answer this.

Why did you write your post about Chase cars holding up the wings of the U2 on landing when all evidence on the 'net (including hundreds of U2 landings on video) and facts presented by forum members who have had close contact with the U2 says otherwise ?

Do you bother to research anything before you post, even if it is to check what may have been your personal experience ?

[APG63]

SAM! Wake up!

[KPax]

Having spent a few years at Akr working with those guys, most of them were C135 people with Instructor status on T38's a few ex bomber guys and only one ex F16 pilot that springs to mind. All of them late 20's to early 40's, Det cdr Lt Col his deputy was a Major. All had to undergo a phsyc evaluation and were of the same general type. The chase car has a pilot and ther is one in the tower, the pogos are put back in by the engineers once the ac has stopped. If the pilot is having a good day he can play with the fuel and keep the wings level until Pogo gets there, if not the underwing edge is made of titanium and is designed to allow the pilot to rest the ac on the ground. Finally regarding the posts about the strength of the tail wheel, one pilot called to say, 'tower i may have landed short' the reply was yes you have the approach end barrier trailing the ac down the runway.

[27mm]

During our APC dets in the mid 80s, the OH Major was an outstanding player of the bagpipes, which impressed our scots people no end....

[HTB]

500N

Come on, get real; any response will go tangential within the first five words.

Incidentally, I spent some time working (well, attending) at a major NATO Air HQ - nearly 4 years, culminating in redundancy - where I worked alongside a USAF major who had flown 'Dragon Lady'. He was late thirties, straight from a U2 flying tour, having a little rest and ticking boxes for promotion (staff, tour, overseas tour, NATO tour, all rolled into one:oh:). I think his background prior to the glider/spaceship was F4 Wild Weasel; seemed to be a level-headed stable sort of guy who was happy to discuss his U2 flying - apart from the mission related stuff.

Mister B

[Courtney Mil]

HTB,

That was my experience of them too.

Looks like we both finished out time in a HQ. Hope yours was nicer than mine.

[HTB]

Ramstein...

[Courtney Mil]

It was. Good for you!

[chevvron]

When I did ATC Camp at Akrotiri in 1986, I saw the TR1 pilots frequently in the dining room and they looked to be mid/late 40s. Never got to speak to them unfortunately. (They weren't there officially of course!)

[500N]

SAM

I found what I was looking for, the background info and application to be a U2 pilot.
Might as well get it from the horses mouth if you can.

"Operational sorties average 5 to 9 hours in duration, exceed 70,000 ft " "These last 6-12 hours, depending on the mission."

"The demanding high-altitude reconnaissance mission of the U-2 program requires motivated aviators with a high degree of self-confidence, professionalism and excellent airmanship skills." "we're looking for a few good aviators who possess the extraordinary combination of outstanding flying skills, airmanship, officership,"

Seems to me they want pilots who have "been around a bit", not just out of flight school.


"The U-2 program continually seeks new applicants for this competitive selection process. Currently, about 38% of applicants become U-2 pilots. Those selected for the interview phase generally possess a strong flight evaluation history, strong OPR's, their wing commander's recommendation, and meet or exceed the minimum flying time requirements. As always, an applicant's breadth and depth of experience weigh heavily in the selection process. There are a wide variety of backgrounds in the U-2 pilot cadre, to include B-1, C-130, F-16, FAIPS, TPS graduates, B-52, EA-6B, A-10, KC-135, S-3, C-21, P-3, F-18, T-45, etc... Aviators from the Air National Guard or AF Reserves are encouraged to explore this extraordinary opportunity. If you're interested in performing a unique and demanding mission in a uniquely demanding aircraft, then the U-2 may be for you."


Could some of the pilots on here give a time scale for how long it would take to get the required number of hours up that are required.

"Flying Requirements

Possesses at least 1300 rated hours, or 800 rated hours in T-6, T-37, T-38, T-45, or T-34, or approximately 500 hours in fighters. "Rated hours" means we don't want you including hours flown as a pilot training student.
Do NOT include pilot training time or civilian time when computing these total hours.
Possess at least 500 hours in fixed wing aircraft
Possess 15 months as pilot-in-command in primary mission aircraft
An SCI/SBI or capability to obtain one"

"If you're passed over, but not Active Duty USAF, you won't be eligible to come onto active duty. If you're an active duty Captain who is passed over to Major, it is unlikely we will consider your application. If you're an active duty Major passed over to Lt Col, your chances are much higher that we will favorably consider your application. Call us."

Seems to me that most applicants are in the Captain / Major range, doesn't say much about Lt's.

.
Edit
A very quick scan of 853 US pilot list by name, rank and when they went solo from early 1950's to 2009, the only Lt's found were all in 1956/7. Everyone from 1970 onwards was USAF Capt or above with the odd civilian thrown in.

All the above is publicly available info, no secret squirrel stuff.

[Canadian Break]

Hey, leave SAM alone - he's busy looking into his crystal balls getting me the 6 winning numbers for Saturday! Doh, some people!!! CB:ok:

[Courtney Mil]

Well found, 500N. I think I can help with some of the that. I was an IP (Instructor Pilot) on the F-15 RTU (like our OCU, teaching pilots to fly/operate the F-15) for a few (sorry, a lot of) years, so have some insight into what they're talking about. But only fighter hours, I'm afraid.

These guys are graduates so that's around 21 years old before they start. Air Force Academy (etc), flying training is another 3 years (or so, depending on how well the system is working). RTU (learning to fly, let's say, the F-16) is another 6 months or more. So the guy (generic term, which can, but may not, include female pilots) will now be knocking on the door of 24/25, absolute minimum.

500 hours, assuming this doesn't count RTU time would take at least one front line tour (or more, but being on ops could push up the flying hours), another 2-3 years. So he's now well into his late 20s, assuming everything has gone smoothly AND he's had the time/opportunity/ability to get the gradings they're asking for. Of course, by the time he's got all that, it may not be a natural break point in his career so he'll probably be looking for qualifications on type so that he can come back to the F-16 (in this case, but same for other fighter types) with a future.

ANSWER: Late 20s absolute minimum, but unlikely for fighter guys. More than likely early 30s. The bit about being a passed over Lt Col, MUCH later.

No youngsters in there.

Courtney

[500N]

Thanks Courtney.


In some instances, I think SAM writes the complete opposite of what something is used for (ie Chase cars) or what the requirements are (Age of pilots). A bit like throwing a hand grenade into a crowded bar and walking away to watch the mess.

Either that or as we suspect, he really is deluded.

Anyway, roll on the 15th.

[Courtney Mil]

I'm no expert on grenades, but I would say don't ever throw a grenade into a crowded bar and then NOT walk away! :ok:

[BTDTGTTShirt]

Driving north out of Highworth towards Lechlade at 13.02 GMT this afternoon I definitely did not see one of those weather balloons in the descent before turning left towards Fairford, dirty up, dangle the dunlops before disappearing out of view.

On a more serious note Sqn Ldr Birney Limb was mentioned earlier on in the thread. Does anyone have any information on him? He was a very good friend of my fathers and was very inspirational in me joining the mob. I would love to get in touch with him if he is still around.

[TEEEJ]

A2QFI wrote

As the U2 had no AAR capability ...

Some U-2s did have an AAR capability. At least one of the carrier capable U-2s was AAR capable.

Lockheed U-2E/F inflight refueling (EXTREMELY RARE) - YouTube

[A2QFI]

Thanks TEEJ - I grovel corrected! Probably not used much at 75K ft over Moscow me-thinks!

[chopper2004]

Dragon Lady wish comes true (http://www.501csw.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123293081)

http://www.501csw.usafe.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/120306-F-LH253-044.jpg

Weather Balloon from a few days ago and have to admit, theres no substitution for the good ol'd blue Mustang :) Though Obama's budgetary constraints on the USAF doesn't look too bad if ground crew are driving in the latest VW :) :cool:

[500N]

That's a nice story about the girl. Someone obviously is good at PR.

[glojo]

That's a nice story about the girl. Someone obviously is good at PR.

Wot 'e zd :ok::D:D

Top PR which was VERY impressive. Was that the same aircraft that chalked a cheeky message to a well know aircraft spotter at that UK airfield?

[500N]

I did a quick search on "Ellie Carter U2" to see what type of publicity this visit received, it seems this went quite a bit further than the air force newspaper article.

Ellie Carter: How a spyplane-obsessed schoolgirl melted an air crew's heart | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111092/Ellie-Carter-How-spyplane-obsessed-schoolgirl-melted-air-crews-heart.html)

Girl's dream comes true at RAF Fairford 06.03.12 - YouTube

Ellie sits in the cockpit of the U-2 at RAF Fairford - YouTube


I see in the article that she got to go in the chase car when the U2 landed,
I bet that is something SAMXXV hasn't even done !!! LOL:O

[Gaz ED]

If you played table footy in the American bar at Akrotiri, and drank copious amounts of brandy sours, you would soon be invited for a spin in the chase car, and a sit in the cockpit. Don't eat the spaceman food, mind, gopping!

[MichaelBuckle]

Top PR which was VERY impressive. Was that the same aircraft that chalked a cheeky message to a well know aircraft spotter at that UK airfield?

Same type of aircraft, different airframe and crew - They must just be all round top guys! ;)

[27mm]

Good news - apparently the Dragon Lady is being extended in service, due to problems with UAV data gathering.....

[air pig]

Surprise surprise, even Global Hawk can only carry a small amount of payload compared to the U2.

[El_Presidente]

Gaz ED If you played table footy in the American bar at Akrotiri, and drank copious amounts of brandy sours, you would soon be invited for a spin in the chase car, and a sit in the cockpit. Don't eat the spaceman food, mind, gopping!

Ah Memories...just behind Lady Lamps if I recall...

:}

[breakscrew]

Three year old learning to swim at at Button Bay, Akrotiri: "Bloody U2 again" she said as her instructor was distracted once again.....

[gopher01]

The last post brought back memories of sitting at the Limmassol Services Sailing Club on Ladies Mile watching these big black aeroplanes which weren't here coming in to land. Not as bad as being woken up in the morning early by the same non-existent aeroplanes taking off! I did a tour on 103 M.U. between Dec 68 and Aug 71 which was over the period when they WEREN'T there and when they weren't there, if you follow me. We lost the use of the small hangar next to our Vulcan maintenance hanger to the same non-existent bunch of people, it was all so laughably obvious who they were and what they were there for, that nobody could really get excited about it, apart from not being able to take a shortcut through the hangar and having to walk the long way round to get past it.The pompous pronouncements of various politicians that these non-existent aeroplanes were not operating from any British military bases only made it more of a farce than it was.

[rafvr]

I have just been reading the posts on here and remember serving with a Flt Lt Bernie Limb (Navigator) at RAF Oakington c1965/7 could this be the same man? A really nice man, married to Judy.

If it is the same chap and anyone knows where he lives I would love to get in touch with him.

[engtechp]

In the early 70's whilst enjoying a drink one evening with my dear wife at the Akrotiri Ski Club the Americans turned up, (no idea why they were there?). One immediately started to chat up my wife who was stood next to me telling her that he was a U2 pilot, likely story. He was really trying it on and I was just about to intervene when my dear wife said to him, "If you don't go away, (she was always polite) you will not be able to fly tomorrow because your testicles will be too swollen after suffering from sudden and violent contact with my knee!" :)

The rest of the crew were great and I enjoyed many hours socialising and drinking 'Blab', (mixed in the bathtub and decanted into 5 gallon plastic containers).

[wub]

I know this is an old thread, done to death, but I was browsing Goggle Maps for an upcoming trip to Cyprus and was surprised to spot this:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/wub_01/u2_zps94822adc.jpg

[chopper2004]

Strange, I cannot see it now as just got Google maps opened just now and Google Earth ?

Cheers

[Chris Kebab]

...that's the Bing Maps image not Google maps/earth. It's no secret anymore tho' is it.

[Tashengurt]

Must have taken off.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Cows getting bigger]

More interesting is the shagfest going on out the back of the barrack block second-in from the left, third one down. :ooh:

[chopper2004]

Thanks for that have opened Bing map and see same image! Though if you click on Bird Eye view lol, the image disappears!

Btw has anyone else seen this dodgy google earth / map view of one part of the AMARC flying around on the web lol :cool::p to the bottom left ,

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/F-19s-at-Tuscon-AMARC-airplane-graveyard_zps5aa8e3f7.jpg

Could not resist the post Halloween humour :)

Cheers

[Surplus]

Done before:

Isn't photoshop great?

Look here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Davis-Monthan+Air+Force+Base/@32.1503021,-110.8332897,782a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x86d6653db2375c9b:0xdf50c8f87748ce3 8


The 4 B-52s have the right markings to match but since that old image, one F-14 seems to have had it's wings swept and a lot of bits of the B-2 have been taken away.

Throw in a couple of indistinct shapes and you're done!

[Typhoon93]

My best mate was there earlier this year working and he got a ride in one of the Subaru's down the runway to bring one of the U-2's in. He got to try space food as well.

Apparently the Yanks have got an awesome badge on their flying suits - a picture of Snoopy with "Still not here after 40 years" written under it. LOL

[4everAD]

I certainly wasn't there last week and certainly don't have the snoopy t-shirt��

[Al R]

Cows,

That's too close too comfort to what we believed at the time to be the stn cdr's personal vineyard (Bob Hoskins?). I, and a spectacularly delightful squipper, ended up in there one July night after the federale has raided a party in the APC WRAF block. We eventually fell asleep and she disappeared in the early hours leaving me to later explain to the RAF Copper (who woke me up) what I thought I was doing with my Ron Hill UJs on my head. SWO not too happy either. I had a sore throat for a week too, god knows what they were sprayed with.

[BEagle]

From a few years earlier:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/U2_zps3442b069.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/U2_zps3442b069.jpg.html)

:ooh:

[dragartist]

BEagle, Could your mates at JARIC not supply you with a higher resolution shot showing the awesome badges on their flying suits!

[EricsLad]

The sneaky radio operators of a non-existent Signal Troop had a receiver site at Akrotiri.
They maintained that the Soviet satellite was using the U2 as an excuse - they were being watched.
Occassionaly there site log would read - "Confused the Russians today".
This indicated that they climbed on top of their Land Rover in the bondhu and performed a very intimate act .
Confused indeed.

[gzornenplatz]

Interesting thing about the U2, when they showed us around the aircraft cockpit it's got a reticle (sort of gunsight) in front of the seat looking straight down so that the pilot can see which country he's overhead rather than the country he's next door to. (Terrible grammar)

[Haraka]

BEagle, Could your mates at JARIC not supply you with a higher resolution shot showing the awesome badges on their flying suits!

Nah.
It would just have shown that it was a painting on the pan to confuse the punters.


(And JARIC is also no more than a memory now.)

[HTB]

chopper

That looks like a bad day at the Airfix factory (or someone trying a bit of model-making while pished)...:E

Mister B

[smujsmith]

Beagle,

That's a nice photograph. Directly behind the aircraft is the hangar they operated from in the early 70s, when I was based there. They had one half and we (The Lightning Minor Servicing Team) had the other. The Hangar to the immediate left of the U2 is the TASF Hangar, with the annexes being used as Station Hydraulic Bay, and at the top end the Staion Tyre Bay. The Hansard across the pan to the right was the Vulcan Aircraft Servicing Flight hangar, one of two used for second line servicing of 9 and 35's bombers. I'm not sure what year this was taken, the car park to the left of the TASF Hangar was not there in 1975, when I left. Thanks for posting it, it brings back some happy memories.

Smudge:ok:

[chopper2004]

Slightly digressing, a good mate of mine - one of the Mother Rucker graduates, had the absolute pleasure of being there in the 80s with his 60s doing the embassy runs.

Heard the stories of deck landings, the drop in at the compound - and the old let -not-thy-right-hand-know-what-thy-left-hand-does/knows _stick your hand out and take the package / envelope/postcard but don't look at it in the dead of night. In a loT of cases, don't even look at he passengers entering or exiting.

Though when the Reds did their practice, him and his mates always welcomed the view....


Though did anyone watch The Unit Season 3 - Play 16? Would think his case it was supposedly a U.S. FOB in Cyprus ...in TPMH as the hospital and press room upstairs has the Union Jack but on a. There is one floor of Us Army / USAF and the morgue downstairs with Armed Forces ME and guarded by Sky cops. The ungrateful injured former hostage reporter is persuaded by the surviving members to change his story whilst their injured colleague is treated next door and their deceased colleague and comrade is carried y his crew into the mortuary (which we can assume is TPMHs one though looked more Hollywood single freezer as opposed to UK one fridge fits all) and the army / USAF med captain has the task of extracting bullet, cleaning up any traces of Beirut and then in silver transport case back to states. So in the case of the tragic accident, that the USAF medics came along to take care of the pilots remains TPMH due to the sensitive nature of the the circumstances.

Wonder if with the black balloons , there was a cadre of their aerospace med lot taking over TPMH during the deployments as well as supporting my mates detachment ?

Cheers

[bonajet]

What are your references for the UK acquiring U2s? There were exchange pilots for sure but "on strength U2s"?

[SpazSinbad]

CIA Gen on Brit U-2s :} (not the band silly): https://www.docdroid.com/xbtfrRa/the-u-2-and-oxcart-1954-1974-pdf (66Mb) 6 page extract below tells the UK story.

[golder]

The idea of using British pilots in the U-2 program first arose in the spring of l 957, when Richard Bissell-upset that his aircraft had not been allowed to fly over the Soviet Union since the December 1956 standdown-was searching for ways to reduce the political risks of overflights and thus obtain more frequent authorization for missions over the Soviet Union. One of his proposals was to use non-US pilots-possibly British-to increase the possibility of plausible denial in the event of a loss. At a meeting with key CIA. Defense Department. and State Department officials on 6 May 1957, President Eisenhower approved the concept of British participation in the U-2 • !O'J proJect
Thanks for posting, I didn't know that.

[bonajet]

Thanks SpazSinbad for those links. I didn't know that there was a "sleight of hand" title transfer for each mission, which was a different concept to the vague discussions in 1965 of the UK buying U2s.

[ORAC]

Not the only occasions aircraft were “transferred” for spy flights.

https://www.rafsculthorpeheritagecentre.org/operation-jiu-jitsu.html

[Just This Once...]

What are your references for the UK acquiring U2s? There were exchange pilots for sure but "on strength U2s"?

Only one U-2 on RAF strength, based at Watton (I think) for weather research and only for a brief period.

Not sure who we were trying to kid with these implausible misdirections but high-alt recce was a serious thing for the RAF for many years, so the participation would have been of no surprise to anyone, even back then.

[Asturias56]

"based at Watton (I think) for weather research"

Ah yes... weather research..................... ;)​​​​​​​

[ORAC]

Yes and no, some U2s were modified with scoops and particulate filters to monitor the fall out from Russian nuclear tests at Nova Zemlya - they flew out off the UK and took samples over the Barents sea outside Russian airspace.

To keep it pertinent to the thread, they also did it with flights out of Australia - "Operation Crowflight"

https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/atomic-spies-in-southern-skies-operation-crowflight/

[golder]

They were crazy times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HMPMYL19E

[tartare]

Yes and no, some U2s were modified with scoops and particulate filters to monitor the fall out from Russian nuclear tests at Nova Zemlya - they flew out off the UK and took samples over the Barents sea outside Russian airspace.

To keep it pertinent to the thread, they also did it with flights out of Australia - "Operation Crowflight"

https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/atomic-spies-in-southern-skies-operation-crowflight/

Fascinating - knew about the carrier Ops wrt French tests - but not the Australian operations.

[fdr]

Fascinating - knew about the carrier Ops wrt French tests - but not the Australian operations.

https://www.adastron.com/lockheed/oddities/U-2.htm

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/936x696/screen_shot_2022_06_20_at_9_25_40_am_62d6aa76e0b1e2053fcf369 cb003623eba6dd74a.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/936x686/screen_shot_2022_06_20_at_9_25_26_am_559375d6600a135a89c0e1b 855cf0c7f13769870.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/936x682/screen_shot_2022_06_20_at_9_25_00_am_695c4561d290131bcf68e2b 5b693b1b81cf628d3.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/936x686/screen_shot_2022_06_20_at_9_24_46_am_0fe8c6e59664f092ff63835 5d6e0650801230fe3.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/936x690/screen_shot_2022_06_20_at_9_24_35_am_6488501f7f00ee340f3e785 478805ce4f3ba9487.png


56-6718: "City of Sale" (the "City of Sails" is further east and colder)

[megan]

The U-2 dead stick landing from 300 miles out at East Sale was still the subject of much mess bar discussion in the late 70's.