Bulk Fuel Purchase

[scooter boy]

I am based in Southwest UK and my AVGAS bowser needs a refil.
Any advice on recent prices and helpful contacts would be appreciated.
It's getting so expensive...

Thanks,
SB

[rotorboater]

Avgas is 74p/ltr in the chanell islands, is it possible to go there with a bowser & fill up for personall use? What happens with the customs etc?

[scooter boy]

RB I love CI fuel.

I sometimes fill my Mooney up there weekly in the summer.
Last sunday it was 79p/L including AOPA discount.

Last weekend I dropped in there on the way back from Friedrichshafen and filled my Monroy long range tanks to the brim prior to the 40 min hop back to Plymouth.
Next weekend I am off to Perugia in Italy on CI fuel and will stop off at Jersey on the way back where once again I will fill right up!

I don't think you could get a bowser through customs without being noticed!!!

SB

[rotorboater]

How would the maths stack up if you fly to the CI in a plane, fill the tanks to max and 15 20ltr jerry cans (or equivalent to 3 pax) then fly back & empty fuel into your bowser? As long as its for personall use there should be no problem.

[ericferret]

You could even get a load of duty free fags and chain smoke all the way back throwing the butts in amongst the jerry cans.

[scooter boy]

"You could even get a load of duty free fags and chain smoke all the way back throwing the butts in amongst the jerry cans."

...and turn on the factory installed O2 on maximum whilst taking a drag on a big cigar...:bored: for maximum fireball effect.

I reckon I could defuel 400L per trip, six trips and my (2200L) bowser would be full, BUT I would also pay £72 in landing fees at EGJJ and use £358.34 worth of AVGAS in the process. Plus wear and tear on A/C etc...

Now if CI fuel is £0.79 per litre with AOPA discount and the price in Plymouth is £1.02 +Vat then the saving on 2200L would be £899 so subtracting the £358.34 and £72 I would only be £468.66 better off. I reckon I could do it in a day but quite honestly it would be risky and I would far rather have a big tanker come out to my bowser and top it up!

Hmmm....now if I had an RAF tanker aircraft it might be worthwhile, shall we have a show of hands and a whip-round?

SB ;)

[Robbo Jock]

Rent an AN2 - you could do it in one trip!

[nigelh]

While were at it how are prices for Jet A1 thinking of getting a bowzer but i hear that if you take less than say 5-10,000 ltrs it is as expensive as an airport ? Having said that they go from 35 p Heathrow/ Luton 45p Leeds 60p A load of other places !! Is there a list of cheapest fuel anywhere .....now theres a new business Whirls :ok: :ok:

[500e]

Hughes 500, buys fuel in south west. :suspect:

[scooter boy]

Thanks 500e I will PM him but he is probably in the JetA1 market, I am after AVGAS.

Nigelh u r right about more being cheaper - all to do with not splitting the the "pots" in the tanker - more fuel ordered =more bargaining power.

SB

[heli1]

Scooter Boy...have you tried CYMA Petroleum...they will deliver relatively small quantities in the south west ,say 1000 litres ,although I am not up with current prices.

[scooter boy]

Thanks Heli1.
I've dealt with them before, I'll give them a call.
SB

[500e]

hughes 500 has at least one 300 as well as the 500

[levo]

Air total quoted me 80 p litre if you have 4500 litres or 1000 gal big big savings not long befor you pay for bowser .:)

[Hughes500]

The answer to your question

I used to buy Air Total fuel at Dunkeswell. Due to a problem with the fuel I now bowser down to Exeter and buy at .98p per litre plus vat
Problem with Avgas you need an ADR licence to tow more then 333 litres on the road ( before you ask I have one ). Have tried CYMA but was not happy with the some of the things I have heard about their delivery chain ( rumour only, but with some substance)
Jet is different delivered to home at .36 p per litre

[Gaseous]

Cyma are Ok. I have used tens of thousands of litres of their AVGAS.They used to be a bit sloppy on quantities - now metered - but I have never had any quality problems except a bit of water once. No more than a pint or so. Filter it properly whoever you get it from. I get together with a few friends and place a bigger order. We get a better price that way. He's happy to split an order into three bowsers and invoice us seperately.

[Hairyplane]

I have 1000 litres at a time delivered. I think its just under a quid a litre plus the VAT delivered.
Not keen to buy in larger qty's despite the savings and the availability of cheap ex-mil bowsers. I like my gas fresh. I also think I would have to give the lovely Nicky a right good listening to if I came home with a rocking great ex-Army truck. I wouldn't dare ask her where I should park it.....
CYMA are friendly and reliable. There are some short cuts that can be taken to deliver the fuel more quickly and this can be messy and wasteful.
However, the last bloke was very experienced and right on the case.
Be prepared to take it during the evenings or early mornings! ( and the fuel...)
Make sure you can accomodate a huge road tanker too.
Thumbs up for CYMA - perfect for the little guy.:ok:
HP

[bvgs]

I bought some drums from Air BP, 200 odd litres at a time but they charge £28 per drum. I bought 4 and asked for a discount, they said no £28.00 each even if all4 delivered at the same time. Anyone know where you can get a cost effective bowser or where they sell the Ex- Army ones. Was quoted £5,500 for 999litre towable one with manual pump and no meter...a bit pricey for me.:eek:

[GoodGrief]

You might want to have a look at this
http://www.schuetz.de/schuetz/en/industrial_packaging/intermediate_bulk_container/products/mx/index.phtml

or
http://www.schaefer-shop.de/produktansicht.php#preise

IBCs cost from 259euros (600 l) to 393euros (1000 l )

[muffin]

Cyma deliver mine too at about 1200 litres a drop. Very friendly and reliable. The measurement system is a little quaint but seems to be very accurate.

[bvgs]

Thanks good grief but was looking for a site in the UK. for ex-mil bowsers. Anyone else help?

[lartsa]

bvgs

[email protected]

but you will find the ex mil bowsers are a bit dearer than that circa 8 to 20k

[bvgs]

Thanks Lartsa, saw that site but you are correct in that they are very expensive. Just have to resort to a few buckets and try not to go over too many bumps in the car!:uhoh:

[GoodGrief]

bvgs
the company I mentioned before has an office in the UK.
So you obviously want something more sophisticated and more expensive:
try this, we like it a lot for our off airport refuelling.
http://www.saxon.de/532.html?&L=1
They will surely ship it to the UK.:hmm:
Last I heard the price was around 9000 euros which translates into less than 6000 pounds I guess.

[bvgs]

Thanks I'll have a look. In the meantime if anyone has or knows anyone with a bowser for sale please let me know. Thanks

[lartsa]

bvgs
robin at elwood is selling one hers the details



e-mail:
[email protected]

tel: +44 (0)1434 681421
fax: +44 (0)1434 681026


Address:
Elwood,
Barrasford,
Hexham,
Northumberland.
HE48 4AN
United Kingodom

[Three Blades]

There are plenty of suppliers of plastic fixed tanks complete with pumps etc.
Could you not fit a long hose or does it need to be mobile ?
Commonly used for industrial / agricultural installations.
Here is one example:
http://www.southerncountiesfuels.co.uk/main.php?p=fuelcentresale

[rotorboater]

I think Avgas has to be in stainless steel, mine is in very heavy guage 316 - not sure about avtur though

[Three Blades]

On the basis that avtur is very similar to diesel or heating oil then plastic should work (whether it is CAA approved is entirely another matter!).
I admit to never having seen avgas/mogas in plastic containers.

Going back to Hairyplane's comment regarding freshness; I remember reading quite a detailed report about the ageing of avgas. I think that the conclusion was that, provided that light did not get to it, it aged well (taking care of condensation within the tank, of course).
That said, I would prefer a tank of yesterday's delivery rather than some left over from last year !

[muffin]

When I bought my bowser, it was about half full of avgas which had been delivered to it about 12 months before. I discussed this with the fuel supplier who suggested that it was OK to use but it would be a good idea to top up the tanks with fresh avgas on a 50/50 basis. This I did and had no problems. I now find that I fill it about twice a year, so on average the contents are less than 6 months old. Look up the previous thread to see details of the experiments that Gaseous did a couple of years ago. Mine was made by a company in Birmingham called Trailer Engineering. They are still there and are very helpful.

[21lefthand]

I have just bought a 2000 litre stainless bunded bowser with 15m hose, filter, hand pump, sample jar, fire ex on galvanised frame to take forklift tines to caa standard for about £5000 from mainltd.co.uk
very pleased with it despite a few teething problems
I got it filled by cyma for 90p+vat

[Gaseous]

Both my static tank and my bowser are ex-brewery vessels. These are ideal. They are beautifully made, stainless steel, thermally insulated, pressure tested with breather valves and calibrated safety valves. They use standard fittings and were available in sizes from 800 to 2500 litres. A friend picked up quite a few from the local brewery for next to nothing when they were having a clear out. I have seen similar vessels available on the web from time to time. Cyma are happy to fill them. I got an 800 and an 1100 litre tank for £200 the pair (quite a few years ago). Avgas remains crystal clear and blue for at least 18 months when stored in these. Avgas is specified to be OK to use, if stored correctly, for 18 months if my memory is correct. We try to make sure it is used within a year. No problems so far.

[500e]

The quaint measureing method is with a Stick I presume ?? this is a Calabrated stick! Cal by Customs\weights and measures, or whatever they call themselves these days.
Very reliable, no moving parts, just make sure they empty the hose into your tank as if it is not on a small pumped hose it can hold 10+ gall or 40 + ltrs:{

[lartsa]

The quaint measureing method is with a Stick I presume


are you refering to the enstrom tank measuring gauge i had a wooden stick calibrated in gallons which i put in the tank

same with you gaseous

[Gaseous]

I trust the stick more than the Enstrom fuel gauge. See AAIB report on G-BAAU for the reason why.

Cyma use a mechanical digital meter now.

[bvgs]

Gaseous, I'd be interested for any info on where I could get such a bowser. Its costing me £15 everytime I go to my local airfield for a fill!!

[Gaseous]

BVGS. Keep your eye on used process equipment suppliers. Google is your friend. There's a company at Tilbury docks that was selling off this sort of stuff a few years back. I cant remember the name but I'll have a look for an invoice and post it up if I find it.

[bvgs]

Thanks gaseous, how's the enstrom flying? Got myself a Raven II now so no carb ice and more power...great! Any help on the bowser would be great.

[heli1]

Helidata often has bowsers advertised for sale.

[Hover Bovver]

If you are only supplying fuel for your own use, how often does your Bowser require inspecting to comply with the regulations?