Leaving CX.

[hostile23]

I've decided to resign from CX. Living standards are the main reason. My wife hates Hong Kong, the kids are sick all the time and I really don't enjoy the job. Been here a while now and really have to say that I'm disappointed with this company. They promise so much and have a huge reputation as the pinnacle employer. The reality is they are no better than any other airline. In some departments they have a lot of catching up to do. The only reason to aspire to a job with CX is the money. Even that is becoming sadly inadequate in Hong Kong. B scale barely cuts it. I am going to go back to my old job, where the morale was good, the routes were great, you were in your own bed most nights, and you didn't cringe when you read your roster. OK money not so good, but at least I wont be dead by 40! Thanks CX, if there is one thing you have shown me in how not to run an airline. Start opening your eyes. You might just learn something. ................................Naaaaaah.

[Cpt. Underpants]

23, just out of interest - years in CX, rank, fleet?

[hostile23]

FO 6 years

[cpdude]

I'm happy for you 23, most never make the move although they feel the same. It wouldn't take much to fix the problems at CX but sadly it will never happen. The culture is to demean the aircrew and to constantly take, take take. Oh but then you get the call "can you help out". They really don't get it here at CX.

I really hope more leave. For me it's too late, only have a few years left.

For new guys, come and get your heavy time and some money for 2-3 years then head back for a job you can stand to stay at for 10-20 years.

[hostile23]

I think the big thing for me (not wifey) was that the job is just absolutely demoralising. I just have no interest in it. I just don't like flying anymore. Which is sad because it was my passion. I dread getting in that aeroplane, and I must say part of the reason is the guy sitting in the left seat. I just don't understand a lot of the motivation here at CX. People have lost their enthusiasm and are just sitting glumly in an aluminium tube counting their cash. I don't want to get to 55 and have to say "thank god that's over". I want to enjoy what I'm doing and I want to work with people of a similar mind set. That is something I just can't get at CX. I look at the faces in the crew room, glum, tired, dejected. Drab walls, drab faces, I simply don't enjoy it. The crew room at my last employer was like a bar! Jokes, laughter, happy enthusiastic people enjoying what they do. Working here is like being a morgue technician, 30 years of working with dead people before ending up on the slab yourself!

[hog tied]

Amen, couldn't have said it better.

[777300ER]

Hostile23,
Please make me us a promise. After about a year of working back at your old job, please let us know how your going. Pros, cons, etc. I think it would make for an interesting point of view to hear from someone that has left and gone back to the "good old days".
Good luck with the move.
Cheers,

[Night Watch]

hostile23

Just wanted to say.... Good luck to you :ok:

The only way there will be any change is if brave guys/gals like you vote with your feet. Talked to a mate last night that is taking a base at the end of the year, in preparation to leave.

Just out of interest... are you off the 400? Seems to be where most are leaving from at the moment?

[hostile23]

I have kept in touch with my last employer and most of the old friends I had there. Still a lot of the same old faces will be there when I get back. I have already been accepted. No sim ride or any of the rubbish. I will let you know what it's like. All I can tell you for sure is that I won't miss the midnight sign on's with Captain Moneybags who knows everything about everything. I really think this airline needs to grow up. This good old boys club they've got going is only good for the OLD boys. People here really do take themselves far too seriously. They need to realise that they put their uniform on like just about any other pilot in the world does. I don't understand why they are treated like Gods because they have a bastardised Union Jack flying behind their arse! I guess there are just some things about CX I'll never understand.

[sisyphos]

good luck hostile !! Unfortunately, your comments are spot on ...

[Yeager]

Congrats to you Hostile23.. :)

I am very happy to hear about the decision you have taken - I am confident you will never ever regret it! You know what you came from and you seem to know what you are going back to..

I will join the club of leaving guys in a couple of years - say less than 2. I miss enjoying going to work - but fortunately I can still remember the enjoyment that flying can be in the right company. CX is definately not for everyone. If you want money (that means a hkg base and buying property!) - sure - come and live with the culture at CX.

As much as I love Hong Kong (sure it poluted and..) and the Mickey Mouse culture around here - I am really looking forward to going back to my old Airline. Sick and tired of "The cathay way.." - what a wanking way of running a "Five star Airline".

If I had family incl. kids, I would for sure consider other airlines and options..

Anyways - good on you buddy - live a happy life - knowing you did the right thing.. Im happy for you.

Y

[wrongwayaround]

Hi Mr H23

are you able to say what type of flying your old job is? Regional? Instructing? Aerobatics :E ?

Enjoy. Let us know how you go.

[GlueBall]

Living conditions in HKG, where the average population density is 15,000 per square mile, are not ideal for your wife and kids to come and play, especially not during the frequent sulfuric air pollution blown over from the mainland's factories. HKG can be tolerated if you're single and "get out" frequently on long haul.

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

...............what's the company you are going back to 23?

[hostile23]

Easyjet........I guess I,m answering the question for the guy who was enquiring about a UK LCC or CX. No competition. Easy, is just a different place to work alltogether. I was a fool to leave, and join this bunch of idiots! Big mistake that I'm hoping to put right. My advice to anyone, give CX a wide berth. Shocking company, that treat you like a monkey.

[Numero Crunchero]

One of the greatest failings we have as human beings is our lack of contentment. We have an insatiable need to look over the fence and wonder if the grass is greener. Congratulations hostile, you now know it isn't and you will sit contentedly in easy jet for years to come. I am sure things will happen there to annoy you, but at least you will know that is better the devil you know.
Good luck and cheers
NC

[Night Watch]

Had an mate (CX SO) leave for Easyjet mid last year.... he is very happy and doesn't regret the move at all. Roster has turned out better then he thought and is already due for a command at the end of this year. With his previous experience.... there will be a training position not long after the upgrade. So the pay is starting to look very interesting. :D

[hostile23]

I've wasted 6 years with this mob of idiots. And I can say with my hand on my heart that I am actually a worse operator now than I ever was. Thanks again Cathay for your fine training. I haven't learnt a goddam thing, excepting many demonstrations of appauling CRM! I would have easily been a BTC at easy by now. And yes the pay is not much better here at Cathay, and certainly doesn't come close to being enough to want to live in this festering stink hole. I have regretted very little so far in my career, but I have to say that joining Cathay was a huge mistake. My career has basically gone backwards yet I feel as though I've worked so hard! I have never known an airline that demands so much and delivers so little. But I guess looking back now that is the way Swire do business. Money first, morale? What's that again?.

[Yeager]

H23.
You are right.. To put it as a bunch of ******* it prob pushing it a bit - because there are a lot of nice people around here as well - all casualties of a sick system (as cathay is! - sick!). Flying here is not fun at all - its into the books think knowing all about of the CX theory way of doing things as opposed to being an actual good operator. CRM - on the -400 - at best - ****. check/"training" - a best - modest. Its really a yes sir, no sir airline - with and operational point of view sticking back to the 70'-80' aviation enviroment..
Good news is - Im hearing about guys, at least once a week now, leaving for better grounds to play on.. If you are planning on a basing with CX - you will in many cases be just as well of (or better!) going an airline in/or closer to your home country. You want have to put up with the **** at CX - and you will actually wake up in the morning wanting to go to work (or at least feeling good about it!). The basing pay here is really nothing. The pension scheme is a joke and the medical coverage + loss of license in at best average. Again - even with at lower pay - there is more to life than pay.
I will quit in a year from now - and do like you H23 - go back to the green grass and have some fun. And yes I know its greener - and yes, I know it still is!). Another thing - that I come to think about - Im tired of dog eaters - just not fun at all.. :} :rolleyes: :O
Enjoy Easy my fellow aviator - you will earn your REAL flying wings back soon.
Y

[ACMS]

You should have been on the 777 mate.

[hostile23]

Maybe I was! Still a pile of left seat self indulgant types there as well. Reading some of your previous posts proves that to me without doubt!!
I just love the "that's what FO's are for" remark. What were you thinking? Thanks for the invitation to the 777 fleet 'sir', but I've had enough of being a whipping boy for a while at least.

[CXtreme]

ACMS, if the 777 is so great, then why is one of the 777 guys ( a real sharp F/O ) prepare to go back to AFRICA!! as he was happier there ??? He resigned last month...

Good on you H23, will follow you in the near future! Just 2 items to tick in the H.Kong box.....not the CX box, best to forget most they "teach"

[hostile23]

Can I have the initials of the guy that resigned from the 777?

[pfd99]

I recently left CX after 6 years and 100% agree with this post. It is amazing for such a big company to be like this. Good luck back at EZ hostile.

[ACMS]

You all amaze me...................really.


I hope your new company knows what they are getting:ok:


good luck to you.


bye bye

[hostile23]

ACMS have you ever stopped and thought about why you are so amazed by the responses here? No? Maybe you have been so indoctrinated you can't think away from the Cathay system. You cannot actually imagine why someone could possibly leave? Are you familiar with the term "institutionalised"? Enjoy being a NR whipping boy boss. Personally I've got a litttle more pride than to just sit back and take it up the @ss.

[ACMS]

I know why people leave cx. The management suck and I guess the training isn't all that fantastic to some people on some fleets.
There are Horses for courses, but if you think the next paddock is greener then you are only fooling yourself, It aint always so.

One hell of a lot of guys and girls manage to fit in here somehow. Just accept you didn't and move on.

Oh and stop having snipes at the LHS guys all the time, we are no worse or no better than other legacy carriers. CRM does exist in CX, just not in all cockpits.
If you fly with me you'll get to do what you want when you want and how you want, as long as it's within SOP's.

ok?

[Nullaman]

Hostile.

You have had your extended bleat.

Now can you please move along and try and maintain some semblance of dignity?

Think your new lords and masters have already got you spotted with all the clues you have left lying around.:rolleyes:

[2p!ssed2drive]

Nullaman, I hear you... However...

A man does need a place to vent.

And I appreciate his view.

I can assure you, this is part of the reason why there is a pilot shortage. Skygods, old ideas, no money.. etc...

BTW 23, I'm just in the process of converting my Aussie licence to the JAA... What's my chances with Easy :ok:

[CXtreme]

"One hell of a lot of guys and girls manage to fit in here somehow. Just accept you didn't and move on."

If this is true, why do I have to listen to B1tch'n and moan'in from 90% of these guys and girls about eroding C.o.S, training etc. for the last 8 years??
Why have so many of my mates failed command/ Relief or some check in this "career airline" ?

The grass might not be that much greener on the other side but they don't fire 49 guys for no apparent reason :=

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

TBH I'm very surprised pilots are leaving CX for easy. They're hardly a happy ship. Pilots are leaving there in droves. I know loads of Easyjet pilots and most want out. Many are even taking demotions to go to other airlines.

I suppose it's a grass is greener thing.

[rjmore]

I've sat on enough jumpseats to know that pilots complain EVERYWHERE. Even SWA, FedEx and UPS, one can always find someone who is pissed off. Cathay IS the greener grass to a US regional pilot. Maybe I'll find out it isn't but for now I am ready for a change and am looking forward to it.

[hostile23]

Fly with ACMS and I'll get to do "what I want when I want how I want", sorry mate but that just ain't the Cathay way. It's more like "i am priveledged to do what you want when you want and how you want as long as I ask for permission to speak first". I stand by my comments. I can also feel the pro Cathay zombies circling so that's it for me. Enjoy the caning boys while you choke to death. You're all very strange.:confused:

[pfd99]

Everybody has the right to vent their opinion and the grass can be greener sometimes, it certainly was for me. Not all the management and training "sucks" at CX, there are some good ones especially sim trainers!!!
Good luck to anyone who moves on in the world and attempts to improve their career.

pfd99

[Beta Light]

I am a critic of the training, and had a couple of run in; hick up’s myself with the “system”.

I just complete a four sector Safety Pilot flight. The trainer was fantastic. Give the F/O (freighter guy with some experience) really good inputs. Made the student feel relaxed. Very fair in his comments. There are a lot of trainers like this in C.X.

The problem is the culture is created on the 3rd floor, supported by a few on the line. These are the same guys that is very dodgy when you fly with them, or do a sim with them. But they always come back with the “so busy in the office, should fly the line a bit more” that make them feel better.

First question you are asked when you mention you have a check coming is “who with”.
90% of the time your mate would say “Fair guy” But beware you get the wrong guy on the wrong day, which can cost you for a loooong time in C.X.

For the 90% of good trainers in C.X. , you know who you are, and thank you, but can you not change the culture from the bottom up??

Let’s start by getting rid of the Star Chamber, that was so sugar coated in a recent publication, and trust our checker’s with a Pass or Fail.

What is with this Cat A,B,C,D sh1t. I want to be Proficient every flight. You have a P.C. twice a year, and a line check once a year to HELP me stay proficient, and on track for my command.

[Beta Light]

Sorry, the thread is “leaving C.X.” So back to the topic. It is not only the crew leaving. People in some senior positions in other departments are bailing as well. Working for the BRAND NAME is just not enough.

Had a chat with F.M (yup, the eye candy) Manageress from Cabin Crew Services. She is out of C.X. (to their surprise) to go and work for Disneyland. Could not help but laugh, to think even Mickey Mouse offer a better deal.

[SRS.CLB]

6 months left on my lease. CV's going out as we speak. Can't wait to get my life and soul back. All the best hostile.

[badairsucker]

It's going to be an interesting year with the arrival of the new 777's coupled with what seems, a lot of guys leaving!:confused:

[Ashling]

Actually Whatsthisbuttondo you may a touch out of date with things at easy.

Very interesting thread, can it really be this bad at CX

[hostile23]

No one has really disagreed with what I've had to say have they?

[BusyB]

Hostile23,

Actually I think you are wrong. There is a very small proportion of people in all seats and positions that are difficult to fly with. Much the same as the previous major carrier I flew with. CX managements past errors (the 49'ers) will deservedly haunt them for years to come but I don't think they will ever do that again. As far as training goes its pretty good in general with a few poor trainers. Yes, the checks still seem to be partially run by a star chamber, I think it depends who's in the offices when your check report arrives, not very satisfactory.

I didn't respond before because you're entitled to your opinion although I disagree with it.:ok:

[FlexibleResponse]

I tend to agree with BusyB.

Attitude is the key to success.

A respectful, helpful and supportive attitude will be reciprocated in 98.7% of cases.

AND I am talking about attitude from the left seat, right seat, back seat, bunk bed and cabin seat!

If you have a ongoing problem, please have an attitude check to make sure you are not one of the 1.3%!

[iLuvPX]

As far as training goes its pretty good in general with a few poor trainers.

What CX do you work for???

I think there is one thing that just about everyone can agree on, as it shows up in some form or the other in most posts, that the CX training department is horrible. To make a statement like that BusyB, takes away from your credibility.

As far as Easy goes...who knows if its better or worse. I bet H23 will enjoy his time there. At least he will get off the 3 month contract flying here at CX.

Im under no illusion that these problems are limited to CX only. All that matters is if you can put up with the bad your particular company dishes out. Best of luck to you H23.

[BusyB]

iLuvPX,

"I think there is one thing that just about everyone can agree on,"

You may be refering to those on PPRuNe but I can assure you a lot of guys I fly with are quite happy with their trainer/training. As I said, you're welcome to your opinions, just don't start believing everyone has the same opinion!!:=

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

I doubt my knowledge on Easyjet is out of date, I was speaking to a some of their captains in LGW yesterday. I know quite a few of them very well indeed and many of them are looking at leaving even for F/O positions elsewhere.

Leave CX by all means but you wont be at Easy long before you're looking at heading of somewhere else.

[CMOTDibler]

It seems with alarming regularity we get into this rut. Someone says they hate CX and are leaving. Some people say they can't wait to join the exodus, others take the happy to stay view and we go around and around in circles until everyone thinks they have had the last word or gets bored beating thier heads against the others wall.
I shall try to put this as simply as I can.
If you are unhappy with CX leave, don't stay here take the cash and whinge about how unhappy you are. It is spineless and without credibility. Follow H23, if nothing else he is a man of conviction. Unhappy, leave, simple.

If you enjoy flying for CX- happy,stay,simple.

If you have good CX/HK days and bad CX/HK days (as most of us do) shovel the cash away and then when the bad days fill up the sh*t bucket at least the money bucket will be at the same level. Then refer to either of the simple choices above.

On a last note H23 I would controvert your reason for the post. I have no problem with 90% of the LHS guys I fly with, but then I don't have the insecurity issues that you have demonstrated by starting this thread. I don't let other people decide how I should feel.

CMOT

[sonicguy]

Come to Netjets guys!
Nice company, nice people, nice atmosphere and quite a good new contract!:cool:

[ByAirMail]

I know at least a dozen pilots at C.X. whom I see on a regular basis. They all agree on one thing. C.X. is run on fear and intimidation. Maybe some of you have been exposed to it for so long you don’t know the difference.

Sorry, Buzy B, but the lives of more then 49 family’s was ruined. Also the likes of me who respected the recruitment ban, only to be kicked in the bal1s later when all was forgiven.

When market forces change they will do it again, maybe they will just be more legal this time as the only regret they have was the bad P.R. Nothing else. Let’s not live in denial. Market forces will hopefully never change in their favour again to allow them to show their true colours.

Just the fact that this threat has been going for so long show there is a problem in C.X.. For the first time in 5 years I am starting to feel that me honouring the recruitment ban was destiny.

[BusyB]

ByAirMail,

Nothing to be sorry about. I only answered this thread because Hos23 was saying everyone agrees with him.

Nothing can justify the '49ers. Those that respected the inept ban have also been penalised.

I know in excess of 1000 CX pilots so I think I have a better idea of the majorities feelings than you do. We are talking about current feelings not past ones. Everyone is p****d off that we haven't got a payrise yet but that doesn't make all the trainers/training useless.:)

[hostile23]

"I know over 1000 Cathay pilots.......................sorry but that is absolute tripe. Met a couple of hundred yes, have intimate knowledge of how they think and be able to comment on their behalf. Ah....NO. This is what I call CCC. (Classic Cathay cr@p). Sorry dude but you sound really dumb making these sought of statements.

[BusyB]

Hos23,

You really are wetting yourself aren't you. Yes, I think that about 1000 is reasonable and they, like you, mostly speak their opinions.

Now go away and make your "SOUGHT" of statements somewhere else. You say no-one disagrees with you and when they do you get all aggressive. No wonder you have problems with the training!!:ugh:

[hostile23]

Just the arrogant type of response I would expect.I'm not being aggressive, just drawing attention to the fact that you are full of sh!t when you say you "know" 1000 Cathay pilots. I was there for 6 years and probably only met 50-100 tops. Man you must really be a man about town.Thats a lot of hand shaking. Might I suggest your hand is sore from some other form of self indulgent social activity!

[BusyB]

How would you know its arrogant, you don't seem to know anybody. Lets look at it. 14 yrs -400 (30 trips yr x 3 crew), 3yrs 777 (22days flying/month, lets say 15 different crew), then we have AEB, bars etc.:D

You really are a sad sack aren't you? Just feel only you can tell the truth. Dream on.:ugh:

[hostile23]

You must have met me at some stage, as you seem to have met everyone at Cathay. What did you think of me? :E

[BusyB]

You certainly weren't memorable!:}

[iLuvPX]

Busy B, if anyone was questioning H23's rational for leaving...YOU just answered it.... :ugh:

[BusyB]

Whatever you say, its your opinion!:ugh:

[iLuvPX]

Whatever you say, its your opinion!


You think that little gem up all by yourself? :}

[ACMS]

I've been here for 14 years and met one hell of a lot of Cx crew from the most junior S/O to the most senior Capt. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that most are pi**ed off with the management style ( roster/pay/conditions )of this company and not with the training dept. Sure a few are upset about being cat b'd etc but most ( and I really do mean most ) get over it and persist. Ok we have a silly star chamber that really should go but on the whole all check/trainers are not too bad. Remembering there are bad apples in every bunch.
Now as for CRM? yes it is very much alive and well in CX, some better than others I grant you but it's a lot better than 15 years ago or even 5.
Having said all that I accept there are people out there that just don't seem to "get" the Cx style, fair enough you had your try and moved on. Good luck to you but remember 600 Captains and 900 F/O's ( approximate figures of the top of my head, so don't shoot me! )somehow made it through upgrade, so it's very achievable for the vast majority that care to put in the work.

So could you please stop s**t canning Cx all the time, quite a few of us actually enjoy the job so get over the fact you don't/didn't fit in here and move on with your lives.

fair enough?

ok

[CXtreme]

23, I suffer from serious “Establishment Blues”, and yes I hope to be following you soon and do think there is a lot to improve at C.X.

I think you have made your point but now you’re getting insulting and respond to every post with aggression, by the way, where do you get the time??

I think your point was made, so can we please close this thread Mate.

[hostile23]

A lot of people talk about leaving. Until you have actually done it, talk is cheap and is what Cathay does best. Blow hot air. Unfortunately they are not aware that their is a hole in the top of their baloon!

[The Management]

Of course everyone is happy in the cockpit. If it showed they were unhappy we would Cat B the F/O or S/O’s in question. You see, we have the control and that is what we are good at. Living in fear of being terminated is a great motivator.

As an F/O or S/O, would it be wise to put it on paper or tell someone you are not happy with a Trainer or Checker. Ask the pilots who disagreed with some of our C&T’s. They are now Cat B’d for 3 years for an attitude adjustment. Of course everyone is happy. Keeps the pilot’s inline. How many are those 3 year Cat B pilots complaining now.

Rule by intimidation and fear.

As for more terminations, it is coming. We will do it different this time to avoid the legal battle. It is very simple to target someone and roster a termination simulator. Our Flying Managers are only too happy to carry out this duty.

It is trouble-free to hire a Private Investigator as we have done in the past. The dividends that pay off when we terminate someone is enormous with regard to having a compliant workforce. Very simple to select someone who has had an argument with staff travel or over a housing issue, which in itself is cause for termination, so beware.

Conduct unbecoming is open to OUR interpretation.

Nothing is changing for the better. We will have you down to the contract that we want in the near future.

As for a pay rise, we are willing to give a pay rise based on 50 hours and an hourly rate above that threshold to the usual 84 hours. Overtime will be paid above 84 hours but on a reduced rate. It is coming. If you fly 50 hours you get the base rate. If you fly 60, you receive pay for 50 hours and 10 hours of our hourly rate, 70 hours, etc.

Keep smiling in the cockpit and keep your head down, if not, you will pay.

We have the best Check & Trainers in the industry at The Cathay Pacific Group. It is a very sought after position with very good pay and benefits which only attracts the best. Those that complain about the Checking and Training system are most likely the mediocre pilots that slipped through our system. If those pilots wish to leave, we are only too happy. We usually are able to convince some of these resignees to maintain their employment with The Cathay Pacific Group.

We have many applications and will be hiring 250 pilots this year in various positions and bases. Many lower time pilots are very keen to join The Cathay Pacific Group. So we lose some pilots but more join on lower conditions, we win. Our Training Staff are more than willing to train these new pilots.

We are not concerned if we lose pilots from all positions (Captains, F/O’s or S/O’s). It will not force us to increase your package as some may think (pilot forces). It’s only going to get worse for the pilot group, not better.

The Management

[BusyB]

The first thing you realise when you fly in command is that all the ****S aren't in the LHS. Doesn't this thread prove it.:p

[Corny]

Don't stop him gents. He's on a roll...:ok:

[cpdude]

23...haven't you left yet?:}

[swish266]

Pls check your PMs.
Tnx.
swish266

[Busdude]

I'll start this with the old, "..watching for a while, new to post" quote. H23: you've made your point. I understand you don't like it here and therefore you're leaving. That's fine. Please do so, it's your right. You are going on a bit though. BusyB: I've read a lot of your posts. You are way above getting dragged into a scrap with H23. Remember in the battle of wits, he appears unarmed and quite emotional. It's not fair of you two to engage.
I've been here 10 years plus. I consider myself easy going and I really can't imagine I've upset any of my crew. As far as I'm concerned, all we're trying to do is take an airplane from A to B, safely and have a good time in the process. In my previous life that phase was called domestics. The meat was using the airplane to do a job (air to air etc).
However, I'm no happy camper either. I'm a bit entrenched with family commitments and am not as flexible as most. I've also not made a war chest of money in my time, so a move is not an easy decision. But, I find for the first time that I've started cruising other airline websites for employment information. I've let my previous licences expire so I hold only a HKATPL. I guess my question is: can I apply directly to carriers such as Korean/JAL etc without having to go through brokers (they appear to want a huge commission)? Are there any other airlines or Netjet equivalents who want a 40 year old, 12000 hour Skipper with Airbus, Classic, Herc and fighter time.
I feel this company isn't up to par with most any more and they won't change until a few us start to leave. Of course it would be nice if others did the leaving so that I can reap the benefit, but I think I'm due a change anyway. Sorry for the drivel; I'm sure I'll get the hang of posting. Just voicing my dissatisfaction without the whinging.
Ta!

[jtr]

Busdude,
I have been trolling options too of late, with a view to getting out.
It seems you have to go through a recruitment agency for all contract jobs.
These are links to some of the sites that offer info:
http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/index.htm
http://www.wynnwith.com/
http://japanpilots.19.forumer.com/
http://www.wasinc.net/employment.aspx
http://www.iac-global.com/vac.htm
http://gapaviation.com/home.html
http://www.contractair.net/public/index.html
http://www.directpersonnel.com/

Other one is Rishworth, though they seem to get a bad rap.

The highest paying package I have seen has been Korean which was something like USD13,000 and the "best" I have seen is ANA which offered a 10 day on, 20 day off contract for something like USD7,000

[Cpt. Underpants]

I believe the AOA is looking into starting our own placement agency.

Now we're really negotiating Nick.

[Yeager]

Hostile23,

Mate keep going, dont be bothered by what other people think about your concistentsy - most of them prob. havnt got - just that. You've put of with **** for long - now its only fair that you take your time for a bit of ventilation - and its all so very true, what you say. The chicken ****s can duck there heads down from now on and till forever. You've taken a decision - to go for the greener grass - and you know what you came from. A lot of the ones that think you have proven you point have prob never ev been through another proper airline and are the ones who would be much better of keeping quiet. At least you know what you are talking about. Keep going. Its all good mate.

All the best.

[BusBusBus]

No one has really disagreed with what I've had to say have they?



That's because most of us who fit into CX don't spend as much time complaining about things on pprune. Every company will have people who can't fit in and they tends to be those who post negative thoughts on different forums. This is a fact of life that people love to complain, so there's really no point for us who disagree with you to try to change your thought or start a fight on pprune.

bus

[cpdude]

Yup...it will be so much nicer at a LCC:E :} :confused:

Different sh*t, same smell!:D

See ya!

[fiftypercentn1]

ure sure the smell is the same in EUROPE as in Hong Kong?:oh:

[NOR116,20]

hostile23,

at least it takes some courage and determination for your decision.
Many pilots complain but only few take consequences like you. Most keep on going the comfortable way of not changing anything. If there were more decisions like yours some bad developments in aviation mainly based upon abusing pilot’s passion for their job had not taken place, e.g. this ridiculous paying for type ratings, and enduring the deterioration of their working conditions in general.
Unfortunately, the best times in aviation are gone, and this decay in general applies for all aviation companies I have heard about. The pioneer times in aviation are history and today it is all about cost cutting and shareholder value.
In some European countries surveys have taken place about young people’s ambitions for their favourite job. For many years becoming a pilot was always amongst the top three for male teens. In the latest surveys it was not even in the top ten. Obviously the reputation of a pilot job is diminishing just as the working conditions.

Nevertheless, I really hope that you will be happy with your decision and meanwhile things haven’t worsened in your former company, too.

Good luck man!

[niceneasy]

Hello h23. Have sent you a PM. All the best.

[Stubby]

Hostile23, or anyone else out there could anyone give me a run down on HK express is that any better or worse than CX??::suspect:

[hostile23]

Just want to say thanks for all the PM's expressing support. I have had at least 20 so far including from wives of pilots. I really don't care what you pro Cathay types have to say, my priority is to convince others not to make the same mistake that I and many others have made by joining this abomination of an airline. After reading some of the PM's these b@stards really have got a lot to answer for. I've often thought the comment that "Cathay ruins lives" was going a bit far. After reading some of these messages I am now convinced. Cathay management is a disgrace, end of story.

[parabellum]

So, if you, as you have told us, are going back to your previous employer and it is all fixed up, why are you asking questions about Flybe?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274774

Has Easy sent you a 'No thanks'?;)

[hostile23]

Ah, no they haven't. But I'm still looking at all options. I only wish I took more time and did better research 6 years ago! I wouldn't be here now working for this bunch of losers. I suggest you spend more time organising your own life. Oh and thanks for the link to my own thread numb nuts. Very useful.:confused:

[niceneasy]

Irrelevant. h23 has presented some particularly grounded and well thought out reasons for leaving cx. Why are some of you (not necessarily you para) on his case? Maybe he is hedging his bets, maybe not, and if so, so what? I would certainly be looking at all the variables and not necessarily the hip pocket ones. What an enormous decision h23 made. I take my hat off to him and wish him luck in feathering his nest elsewhere. What a shame cx management interfere with previously motivated staff. This guy really appears to be trying to please everyone - in equal order - himself for his career and career related self esteem - his wife who wasnt overly fond of HK (happy wife, happy life) - and his kids with pollution related illnesses. Those of us who ignore these are mainly ruled by the dollar. And finally, to quote my mother - if you haven't anything nice to say, dont say it all. Let's give this guy the thumbs up and support him in something most of us would be way too gutless to even consider, let alone walk the mile. Dont justify your own sorry existence in HK (a select few) and denial about pollution by bagging the sh#t out of this chap's career change. All the best h23.

[hostile23]

Thankyou easy,

thanks for the PM as well. Can very much sympathise. I guess we are lucky in that we are not leaving it too late. I just think the whole HK,DB,CX thing is poisonous. If you fit in and actually enjoy living in DB then you are most definitely very very sad. Hope it all works out for you.:ok:

[nike]

Gidday hostile23,

If you fit in and actually enjoy living in DB then you are most definitely very very sad

Dumb thing to say man.

I respect your choice, wish you the best, but expect the same in return.

Leave the throw away lines out, unless all this is really about is you wanting to wind people up.

I hope not.

Luck.

[LapSap]

All right already! We get your point H23. Now just leave for heaven's sake. http://www.degenerates.co.uk/board2/images/smilies/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

[cx773er]

Hi hostile23,

i just quit CX 2 months ago. Honestly, CX management only care about themselves.

I've sent you PM, please check.

[RedLiner]

H23, Thanks for this more than informative post. A move like this surely takes a certain amount of courage and I commend you for it!:D

As a Cx hopeful this really helps me make a more informed decision about leaving the current (regional) airline I'm at. However I was wondering (in a devils advocate sort of way) if you would care to shed some items that specifically irked you to this extent. You imply an impossible mngt. Would you be able to give us a few examples? Now, I've flown with my fair share of captains that are a little trying, but never to the extent that would make me quit. I understand the nature of a forum prevents too many specifics, but could you give a few examples of what you see happening commonly at CX. (that happend often to you) that finally made you come to this decision?

Thank you. Also, I wish you the very best for you next job!!!

RL acting as devils advocate!

[cpdude]

Redliner,

Without doing a search, I believe H23 was with CX for 6 years which means he joined during a period when housing was relatively low in price. Probably bought a place and made a fortune.

Therefore, what you have to realise is that the "money bucket" got filled first with H23 and he now has the option to go elsewhere! You fill that money bucket up and that other bucket gets pretty small and soon it's full too!

He's fed up and that's fine, I'm getting close to that point too! It doesn't mean the job is unbearable just not perfect. But then, which job is?;)

[Airbus_Driver]

I often read about a pilot being assigned a "CAT B" after a training event. What does this mean exactly? Is this something that is specific to Cathay or is it applied to other carriers in the East?

I also read comments regarding the Star Chamber system. Again, what is this? and what does it involve?

[Flywildusa]

Just curious, being new to this forum, but which fleet are your guys leaving?

I know Hostile is leaving the B744

Thanks

[pilotdiver]

At first thought, "are you serious, leaving CX for EasyJet" but after listening to your argument, it sounds like CX isn't the company for you and perhaps it isn't for most of the respondants. It's sad that it is not realised earlier as the money side of things blinded you guys (as what was understood from previous replies) from what it is CX is really like and what is living in HK really like.

But all the best to your decision as I'm sure you made the right one... family is key to happiness!

[pfd99]

PD,

CX is a ruthless commercial business and thats how it stands!! Swire are not there for a ride in the park. Make your own assumptions by the other posts. Regarding HK, i left two months ago and just starting to breath properly again. I went back last week for personal reasons and within two hours was suffering from the smog etc...
I think not a good place to bring up kids if you want health to be priority. The schooling and location great but pollution and health wise is a big risk.

pfd99

[niceneasy]

h23, good to see your thread has clocked up nearly 15,000 views - well done! Hmmm... struck a nerve or two with the indoctrinated (read: brianwashed). A mention of family = happiness in a previous thread. Yep, and also career satisfaction and a certain amount of identity that goes with that. Good on you, once again. For every individual bagging you out, there are at least two supporting you and some of the others are deluding themselves. All the best to you.

[airamerica]

Hostie claims that he's got a job at easy without a simride which I find very very hard to believe.6 years ago maybe,but that was when the airline had 20ish aircraft.Today its a whole new affair.
Just say that you miss home(I presume that you are from the UK) and there is no need to slate the hand that feeds you right now.CX did not ask you to work for them 6 years ago,you approached them.6 years ago easy would not have been a nice place to be but 6 years later its a different story.Only because we have new man that has a vision unlike his predecessor who literaly drove easy into the ground .
Evolution eventually cathes up everywhere.Or in economics its called the invisable hand.
A wise man once said don't burn bridges behind you. Try seeing what we actually do at easy.5 on 4 off 5 on 3off.On those 5 on we do 12,13 hour days.Yes stable roster,but do you think pilots have stopped moaning ?No.''Oh I have airport stanby'' or whatever.Get it?If you are a whinger you will not be happy anywhere.

Good luck.

[CMOTDibler]

Some people are supporting H23 because they too want to leave CX but for some reason won't- they gander no respect, put up or shut-up.

Some people voice support for H23 and anyone else who is leaving because they rationalize that the more people who leave, the better the negotiating position of those that stay- they are Machiavellian in their concern.

Some people voice support because they are simply well adjusted people who respect the decisions of others and do not judge based on prejudices.

Most people wonder why anyone would bother to start a thread to tell the world they are leaving their employer unless the author needed positive reinforecement due to his own social insecurities.

People leave, people join, thank goodness they all don't want thier own thread.
Can we move on now? Please.

[Five Green]

Mr or Mrs MOTDribler :

No matter where you look (gander) around here you will find a lot of unhappy people. Not all want to leave. I am sure though, that we all (you included) would like to see things improve. So, to ignore those that can't leave but are unhappy or worse to slam them as somehow weak, is ridiculous. Just because you are happy (or so you hint) for now, does not mean that you won't have issues later. I myself am quite happy, but I empathize with those that are not.

So what is wrong with working with what we have to try and improve our overall job satisfaction level ? Or are you not prepared to put up and help work to resolve issues with the company ?

Working to improve things does not have to be adversarial. We can improve things but we need more commitment from all pilots here. It is no longer a climate where membership in our association will get you in career trouble. There is no excuse not to join. Having increased membership can only help. It will also help the company as well. If all where in, there would be no question as to how the whole pilot body thought. If you have issues with the way things were handled in the past the only way forward is to work with what we got to improve it.

So no, we should not move on until we improve things. You can stop logging on if it bothers you that much.

Cheers

FG

[CMOTDibler]

Five Green
you missed the point of my post entirely.
I am a member of the AOA and as comitted to improving our conditions as anyone can be. I am unhappy with some things, happy with others. Bring on the threads that debate these themes in a realistic and reasoned manner. I simply do not believe that this thread was started with that view as a premise.

Empathy is indeed a commendable attribute.

CMOT

[fiftypercentn1]

It s quite funny cause i read many times things like "how can you go from CX to a LCC" ecc..
I d like to bring to your attention one little aspect that maybe people tend to not consider very much..if you think of aviation in 5-10 years time, how do you think it will be?
LCC are expanding EVERYDAY, and its not unrealistic to actually say every single day!in order to keep this regime of expansion they are introducing everything the possibly can (gradually obviously) to make people stay, because they need them! This is just to say that it can only get better with rostering, pay, lifestyle and so on.
My point is that it makes me smile to see people still defending the old style airline kind of thing, because this concept is goin to die soon (if it's not dead already!).
good choice and good luck with ur life.

p.s. just make sure u choose a nice base !