challenge and response log

[Bungusbeefcake]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forum, I'm just wondering if someone could answer a question for me.

If a commercial jet is grounded by the pilots for a flight for technical reasons, what is this recorded in?

I was told that the pilots go through a checklist at the start and fill in a challenge and response log if there is any problems. Could anyone tell me if this is right and if not could you tell me what the pilots use?

Thanks

[john_tullamarine]

Same in all aircraft, bugsmasher to airliner, civil or military. The operation will have a document of whatever name but generically a technical log which provides for unserviceable conditions to be identified by aircrew for post flight rectification by maintenance ground crew ...

Not come across any examples of a challenge and response log .. perhaps you could elaborate as to your sources ?

[Bungusbeefcake]

I got this answer from a retired 767 captain.

My question is relating to a B737.


"About 30 or so minutes before flight the copilot preflights the aircraft. He may catch a problem at that time (such as a fuel or hydraulic leak, a bad slat, etc.). About 10 minutes prior to push back the pilots run the check lists(challenge and response), then the before start check list. Anywhere along the line a problem might occur. Depending on the seriousness of the problem, a delay might occur, or possibly cancelling the flight. The problem is written into the ships log book. Then it`s up to the mantainence department to correct the problem and enter a write up in the same log book as to what corrective action was taken.
Some items are minor, and can be corrected at a later time. These are "MCOed"(Maintainence Carry Overs), a small sticker is placed on the affected item and another is placed inside the aircraft log book. Pilots are not allowed to fix anything, even change a light bulb. Hope this answers your question."

Em, another question: If there is a problem (engine, structural etc,) where does the pilot log it? Are there separate logs for engines and also are the logs carried on the aircraft or kept with maintenance or where?

[Dani]

I think you're mixing a few things here.

"Challenge and Response":
is an expression to go through procedures, meaning one guy asks, the other guy answers, i.e. "Landing Gear?" - "down, 3 greens!".
Your extract from the 767 refers to a checklist. Checklists are most commonly handled this way.

Technical Problems:
What you are referring your question to is something technical. If a crew experience a technical fault, they (normally the CMD) writes it up in the Tech Log. There it stays until an engineer repairs the fault, clears the entry, or - if in accordance with MEL (Minimum Equipment List) or CDL (Configuration Deviation List) - clears the entry without repairing it, meaning you are allowed to fly with that fault (with all the restriction that apply).

hth,
Dani

[john_tullamarine]

B,

I guess that you're a new chum .. be prepared for the jargon to confuse you for quite some time until you get your head around it ..

The problem is written into the ships log book

The reference is to the aircraft's (technical) log (book). This is a document which can take many formats and names but, basically, is a vehicle to record technical data and unserviceabilities.

MCOs

This practice depends on the State's rules. Some places don't allow such things, others do. An alternative expression used in the Australian military is CFU (carried forward unserviceability). Generally the civil MEL provides a similar process in the end play although the procedural steps might vary.

If there is a problem (engine, structural etc,) where does the pilot log it?

There is a multiplicity of "logs" or logbooks.

The airworthiness records include airframe, engine, propeller, etc., logbooks which, in general, aren't used routinely by flightcrew, especially in heavy aircraft. These documents provide the maintenance history in considerable detail and are the normal province of the maintenance folk.

The usual interface between flight and ground crew will be via the technical log (by whatever name). This should be viewed as being a subsidiary component of the maintenance logbooks referred to in the previous paragraph. If you like one could view the tech log as being a very robust, systematised method of writing notes between the two groups. In addition, it provides a convenient vehicle for flightcrews to record other data of use to maintenance control functions.

In general we try to keep all records OFF the aircraft ... consider what happens if the aircraft has an accident .... we end up with no records to assist the investigation. In some States, and for some circumstances, even the flight manual is left off the aircraft.