Chances of getting a job!

[bgw]

Hi
I am seriously thinking about doing my CPL(H) and i was wondering if any one could advise me on the reality of getting a job once my training is completed. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks
BGW

[madman1145]

It is anything from 0-100%, depending on your person, skills, luck, work, family, stubbornness, economy, network etc. etc. etc. etc. ......

Bottom line: You have to spend € 60.000 or more, sorry, most likely a lot more on something you have absolutely no idea if you get a job afterwards. It is a risk, but calculated risk. There is no easy or short answer to your question ..

- madman

[Whirlygig]

In all honesty, your chances are very slim with just a CPL(H). You need to consider either an Instructor Rating and/or Instrument Rating.

Cheers

Whirls

[Camp Freddie]

bgw,

I completely agree with whirlygig and disagree with madman because there is a short easy answer to this question (well in the UK anyway)

Option A, CPL(H) only, high risk, chance of employment poor or nil
Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns

how lucky are you feeling, I have met quite a few option A guys who never flew again, I have never met an option B guy who didnt find work.
option C is tricky as you are gambling on being employed by the big offshore peeps, CHC, Bristow, Bond. If they dony want you you are in trouble and you would have to go back and pay for the FI rating as per option B and get some more hours then try again with them.

question is "do you feel lucky !"

regards

CF

[Whirlygig]

Camp Freddie,

DO you have this permanently attached to your clipboard? :ok:


Option A, CPL(H) only, high risk, chance of employment poor or nil
Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns



Cheers

Whirls

[Bravo73]

DO you have this permanently attached to your clipboard? :ok:
Option A, CPL(H) only, high risk, chance of employment poor or nil
Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns


It's the single best piece of advice for wannabes on Rotorheads. :D:D:D

[gwelo shamwari]

Camp Freddie - Well done. :D :D :D

Best piece of advice for wannabes on Rotorheads that has been mentioned for a long time.:ok:

I know a few option A, B and C guys and all turned out as predicted.:ugh:

TGZ

[blithe]

>Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns

Too right. If you can't live/pay your debts on £17,000 a year don't become a full-time instructor.

[Helipilot1982]

Best advise i have seen for a while :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Whirlybird]

Camp Freddie's advice is spot-on, but if you go for Option B you're best to have some means of making a living in winter/bad weather/other lean times. If you have a second string to your bow, Option B will work.

[bgw]

Can anyone tell me what is the average salary is for a flight instructor?
Thanks for the advice.

bgw

[91205]

salary?!! i wish.

very few places offer a salary. it's usually freelance basis - £35-£40 per flight hour for restricted FIs and £40-£45 for un-restricted. no paid holidays, no benefits whatsoever.

some companies even expect you to clean aircraft etc for free when you're not flying (!)

if that sounds like a good hourly rate, think about how little you'll fly over the winter, or if you want to take 2 weeks holiday a year, or when you have some days with just two 30 min trial lessons.

some places offer a monthly retainer (about £100-£200), but not many.

as was said earlier, you better have a way of making money on the side if you're planning to be an FI in the UK.

[Whirlybird]

And some expect you to go in, whether you're flying or not, just in case a potential student walks through the door. And some expect you to work all the hours God sends and then some, in the summer, and forget you exist in the winter. And some are very slow payers, despite the fact they've been paid up front by the student.

They're not all like that. But you're usually self-employed, which means you'd better look after Number One...because you can guarantee no-one else will. :(

Instructing is a fun job, but quite often a lousy way to make a living.

[Camp Freddie]

hi,

quote from whirlybird
Instructing is a fun job, but quite often a lousy way to make a living
that is so true, realistically if you are really busy you aint going to do more than 500 hours a year or so, that equates to £17500-£22500, and boy you have to work real hard to do that, as well as giving up most of your weekends etc.

weather is bad - no pay, you are off ill - no pay

2 years in a row I got £500 for the whole of december, and you still end up going every day and off course on those bad wx days you get to practice the old flight instructor martial art of "extreme tea drinking"

having said that you do build loads of hours and slowly become more useful/employable. but these days you also have the pressure to do the IR, or you will get left behind, when I started hardly anybody was doing self funded IR's

it aint getting any easier to make it these days !

regards

CF

[manfromuncle]

Hear hear. I second that. Instructing is a lot of work for very little pay. It used to lead onto bigger and better things, but these days employers favour those with turbine time and an IR.

Instructing is OK for weekend work etc, but really it's a glorified hobby. It ain't no way to make a living.

[romeodelta]

Ofcourse they favour those with turbine time and an IR.. even more if they have offshore experience and 2000+hrs. But I know of quite a few guys that did the IR with somewere between 200 and 700 hours and got hired by an offshore operator. I know of an other guy that instructed till just over a thousand hours and got a sic corporate job because he had created a good network while working as a FI. Truth is that all had to pay for the IR themselves.

It might be hard to pay the bills as a flight instructor, even harder when you have to support a family or have to pay off loans, but your experience is growing and at some point you will be attractive enough for an employer. That will somewhat reduce the risk off paying for the IR yourself.

If all doesn't work out in the UK there are always options somewhere else on this planet when you have a 1000 hours or more.

[bgw]

I have a job that i could fall back to in between instructing, and as long as i could make enough money to get by whilst i was building my hours up i would be more than happy.
Is there many jobs going once you get to ie 1000hr? All the training schools say there is no time like the present to do your CPL(H) as there is a shortage of pilots. Is this ture as they would say that to get custom.
Is there any training schools in the UK any of you recommend?

Many thanks

bgw

[madman1145]

For me it seems like the magic numbers is around 500 and 1000 hours from different applications I have put out. Seems like passing 1000 hours it starts to get funny for the pilot, workwise ..

Having an IR will for sure help on the CV - personally I believe one should think IR should be standard part of the education itself, just like it is for FW pilots and most FAA guys. I know it's a bitch paying for a JAA IR, but still ..
Yes, there is a shortage of pilots at the moment. How long it will last, who knows. But Bristow's CEO has said on the last Heli-Expo, that they need 850-950 pilots the next 5 years world-wide. Probably a reason why they bought HAI. I hear CHC's numbers just for their European operations is 80 new pilots this year and another 40 next year ..
And these major players are beside hiring rookies just fresh from the schools, also pulling in pilots from all the other operators. And that will leave open seats for others there ..

- madman

[mountjoy]

Get out there, be positive, and apply your self in everything you do, chance favours the keen.

Also take on board all the above posts, nothing is impossible, just some things are harder than others. Look everywhere and ye shall find

ATB to everyone.

[Head Turner]

Another option which has been ignored is
D Join AAC, RN or RAF - Good prospects, travel and vast experiences and then retire to a civilian job - pay is good

[NLJ]

If you are going to do this the self improver route you need, determination, luck, determination, finance, determination, ability, determination, flexibility and determination. I started 21 years ago with a trial lesson and have worked my way through Instructing, Charter, Corporate, IR ratings on AS355 and S76 and currently work as a Line pilot with an English Police Air Support Unit.
Try and get yourself a job with a company that not only does instructing but also Public Transport. Be flexible and accept the fact that the salary you earn initially may be low. If you can cope with that, view it as an apprenticeship and it will pay dividends in the future.
Is there a shortage of Pilots? Yes. You only have to look in the back of Flight International to see that. More than one Police Air Support Unit are looking to recruit new drivers, not to mention a company that provides those same Air Support Units with relief pilotage!

[biggdav]

Agree with all. There is no 'short cut' to becoming a helicopter pilot. Started over 2 years ago and only coming to the final few hours now. It takes hard word, both when flying and working to pay for it. Ive sold my car, run up a nice wee loan but thankfully shouldnt be like that for long. Work hard and good luck.:ok:

[Ioan]

I'm in exactly the same boat. Started flying FW 6 years ago, helis 18 months ago. Now got 2 or 3 weeks left until I hopefully pass the CPL(H) - I owe banks money, I owe my parents money, I still have a car (thankfully) though I think it's mostly positive thinking that's keeping it running and legal... :hmm:

The last week or so I've been emailing and talking to just about everyone I can find who might potentially be interested in hiring a pilot. With just a CPL (I can't afford either FI or an IR), it has to be one of the most humbling and demoralising experiences of my life. You try not to take rejection personally - indeed almost every response has been to the effect of 'try again in the future, and stay in touch' - but NLJ is right; determination is an absolute must!

Option A, CPL(H) only, high risk, chance of employment poor or nil
Option B, CPL(H) + FI rating, higher cost, low risk, lower returns
Option C, CPL(H) + IR, higher cost, high risk, higher returns
seems all too true!

Saying that, as soon as you start pulling collective, it all seems worthwhile!! :ok: