CIO has avoided UK due security processes...

[5711N0205W]

The CIO of the group I work for (22,000 plus, HQ in Europe) has deliberately avoided the UK since last year due to the restrictions on hand baggage.

As a full time 'C' passenger who travels worldwide a lot he can traverse most of the planet without having to hold check any items, good old fortress UK, furthering the needs of British business. :ugh:

[perkin]

Makes you wonder what he wants to carry then...if you've got nothing to hide, why are the current security checks a problem? Its the same across most of the globe currently anyway, certainly Europe at least...

[skydriller]

Makes you wonder what he wants to carry then...if you've got nothing to hide, why are the current security checks a problem? Its the same across most of the globe currently anyway, certainly Europe at least.:=

Actually its not the same in the UK as the rest of Europe, especially for C class.

The airlines allow the convenience of an extra carry on (or 2!) throughout the world, but, you are restricted to 1 item of carry on only in the UK by security there which includes a ladies handbag or laptop as 1 item:rolleyes: .....Plus, you can generally connect in Europe (I have) with another airports bought duty free, but you cant do this in the UK either.:hmm:

As I have said before, Im not a major CEO, but I too try to avoid connecting through the UK whenever possible now.

Regards, SD..

[Final 3 Greens]

Perkin

Why should international travellers put up with the extra restrictions of a country that thinks it knows best, when the rest of Europe sees it differently?
Skydriller calls it as it is.

No sane business or first class traveller would subject themselves to this degree of inconvenience when there are several alternatives.

Premium class travel is about convenience for the traveller, not the security people - time for BAA to match Fraport and others who offer a better service.

5711

I agree with your sentiments about fortress UK - I am just in the process of divesting myself of all UK assets - I see a horrible surprise around the corner.

[A2QFI]

If you wanted to give the World an enema you would probably find UK the best place to put the pipe! Where in UK? Anywhere in UK!! A :mad: hole run by a bunch of self-serving, ignorant, incompetent :mad: wits

[gooneydog]

Ohh why worry about such little things They can always double the fuel taxes and the VAT. Kinda like British Rail in the good old days. Better off selling a one hundred quid ticket to 2 peeps than having 1000 buy a 2 quid one

[Golden Ticket]

Thanks for the feedback folks, good to hear you've found alternatives.

[5711N0205W]

Excellent post GoldenTicket, really adds something of value to the discussion.

Skydriller has it spot on as an analysis of the reasons for avoiding the UK for a 'Business' passenger, it has absolutely nothing to do with a desire to circumvent sensible security precautions.

Personally I travel on average once a month, alas not often in 'C' and I now make strenuous efforts to avoid transiting a UK or US airport if the route options allow.

[Golden Ticket]

My comment didn't really add any less to the thread than the suggestion that the UK would be a suitable place for a world enema. However, I would assume that the CIO of your company would now expect anybody doing business with his company in Europe from the UK to either use the phone or get off their own backside and go visit him. If he can avoid the UK then he's not doing much important business here is he.

[Final 3 Greens]

Golden Ticket

You seem blissfully unaware that there are many longhaul travellers who need to connect on their journeys.

The UK has always been an important connection point, but these days the security impositions (more severe than the rest of Europe) are changing the way people think.

Once they have learned to go via FRA, AMS, CDG or wherever, they will tend to continue to do so.

Your view seems to be typically UK centric.

I used to live in the UK, but no longer do and I fear for it's future - it takes a relatively long time for the wheels to come off and an even longer time for them to go back on again.

[5711N0205W]

If he can avoid the UK then he's not doing much important business here is he.

No and sadly this means it is more likely that he will go elsewhere given a choice. Never mind my CIO, multiply that by any number of other senior level business people who may choose not to come here when they have the option to transit via or visit Amsterdam, Paris or Frankfurt and carry 2 bags on to the aircraft.

On another related point, readers of IT Week (an IT trade paper) may have noticed today that respected columnist and commentator Guy Kewney related the story of a launch event in Florida by Orange of some product or service that fell slightly flat due to many people not being prepared to undergo the current rigours of US immigration.

As a contrast, last week in Abu Dhabi it was pleasant and refreshing to meet the friendly but thorough immigration and airport security personnel.

[NWT]

Having travelled extensivaly the last few years, I would say the worst place to visit is the USA. Long lines and the little Hitlers when you get to the desk.....most unpleasnt staff I have encountered. Now when you travel throught SE Asia it is totaly the opposite. I fully except the security hassles, ad there is often going to be some queus, but it is the way the authorities habndle the number of passengers that makes a difference. The UK airport especially LHR are a joke, never unough lanes and staff for the numbers of pax. It is about time they stppoed any furhter expansion of the airport untill they have in place the faculities to handle the current numbers properly.

[10bob]

I've probably flown in and out of the USA about 6 times in the last 6 months, and to be honest the queues for immigration were not that bad.

However, the same cannot be said for T4 immigration. Most recently, the queues last saturday morning were horrendous and even then I had to wait for my luggage the other side - "delays due to operational reasons". I think it took an hour and forty five minutes from wheels down to customs lane.

The security queues on departure are significantly better in the US as well - certainly if you have a premium ticket, anyway. The same cannot be said for fast track in either T3 or T4 at Heathrow. Never less than 10 minutes, and commonly more.

I think its fair to say that Heathrow is one of the most unpleasant airports to travel from or to. So, I certainly don't blame anyone that chooses to transit around it.

[mt1832]

As a frequent traveller who is often away for just one night or so I usually take just a small bag with me so I don't have to wait to collect hold baggage at my destination. The stupid and illogical liquids rule ensures the airside shops make a killing every time from me and others who get their shower gel etc. confiscated.

Typically my half empty deodorant spray, shaving gel and shower gel get confiscated so I have to buy new from the airside shops and then these get taken from me again on the return journey!

[Gonzo]

The fewer flights out of LHR, the easier my job becomes.....:D

[pacer142]

LHR is a joke in general. Fortunately, there are many good alternatives, and whenever practicable I tend to choose those.

[PAXboy]

mt1832 Typically my half empty deodorant spray, shaving gel and shower gel get confiscated so I have to buy new from the airside shops and then these get taken from me again on the return journey!I now travel with solid stick deodorant and solid stick shaving cream and a solid stick shower gel called 'soap'!! :}

[rmac]

The LHR (and other BAA airports rule) of one bag only per pax, was applied to cut down processing time through security, so my wifes handbag and vanity bag count as two bags, for example, and are "no-go", however if one bag can fit inside the other, then thats ok. I sometimes do this with laptop bag inside carry on bag.

Firstly this is obviously related to BAA saving money, less bags, shorter lines = no requirement to increase number of screeners and machines in view of the new threat (liquids - also nonsense but thats another discussion).

Of course by the time you strip down to your underwear and remove belts, watches, coats, pullovers etc etc, the existence of a second bag in the processing is almost totally irrelevant.

Once again the tail wags the dog. Complete and total anti-customer nonsense. I dont understand why BA and other airlines put up with it, they must be losing business, and paying a heavy fee to BAA, and what is happening with all the extra security surcharges if the airport authority is reducing convenience to us in order to save money.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh :ugh:

[skydriller]

I dont understand why BA and other airlines put up with it, they must be losing business, and paying a heavy fee to BAA

This is the one thing I dont get. The only airline person to publicly decry the stupid security bull**** was O'Leary of Ryanair, and thats an Irish low cost airline!!! Why have BA not been pushing to get the rules & regs back to normality. Maybe some of you may recall that BA wanted business travellers to ditch the checked-in luggage and go for carry on last summer with a huge PR campaign promoting the new business carry on allowances - All this premium service stuff was shelved last September and not a peep from BA about it since. BA in particular MUST be suffering with travellers choosing to avoid London, surely?

Regards, SD..

[merlinxx]

Don't you get those free in your hotel, armpit rot can be alleviated by the onboard wet wipes, or just carry some wet wipes. They've always worked for me over the last 30 years.

[mt1832]

PAXboy

I guess that's one way around the problem, so you can take solid soap etc. on board with no problem as there's absolutely no way a terrorist could manufacture a bomb using solids whereas it's simplicity itself with liquids.....................


merlinxx

I think I may have been seated next to to you on a flight recently, have you been using the same wet wipe under your arms for 30 years......

[Self Loading Freight]

"Absolute simplicity using liquids"

Is it? Nobody I've spoken to knows how to do it!

R

[mt1832]

I think you have your sarcasm detector turned off!

No, I agree with you, the chances of making a bomb on an airplane with a selection of liquids is pure Hollywood in my view.

The ban seems to be more about maximising sales at airport shops rather than a useful security measure

[PAXboy]

mt1832 The ban seems to be more about maximising sales at airport shops rather than a useful security measureMany of us in here think that is has everything to do with politicians covering their fat backsides. When the next bad security event happens they will say, "Well there gosh darn it but haven't those varmint terrorists jus' gone and thought of something else. We close every door we can." There is wide spread agreement that the 'security' measures do nothing but slow down the pax, cost the pax money and mad Bin Laden and his friends fall of their cushions with laughter.

[Bangkokeasy]

Yours truly is in discussion about possible relocation to Europe at the moment. However, the main stumbling block at this stage is discussion as to the suitability of London as against other capitals in Europe as a base for a regional presence. The consensus is that language wise and economics wise, London wins, but the security hassles of passing through UK airports whenever we want to go anywhere is actually swinging the argument away from the UK and towards the continent.

[slim_slag]

So lets see.

Pros: language and economics
Cons: airport security

And this is "actually swinging the argument away from the UK". Oh my word.

[Final 3 Greens]

And this is "actually swinging the argument away from the UK". Oh my word.

Try it frequently and you might change your view.

Long queues and only 1 piece of hand luggage are strong disincentives for frequent travellers.

[slim_slag]

Strengths: Language and Economy
Weakness: Long queues and 1 piece of hand luggage

Each to his own.

[172driver]

Slim, there's always the famous 'last straw' and for some people this is it.

Nobody seems to be counting the economic cost of this farce. This doesn't stop (or extend to - whichever way you want to look at it) a 'relocation' debate, London and the UK are losing a lot of tourism and stopover business. Talk to any seasoned traveller these days and mention London and you'll get 'avoid at all cost' as a reply. Never underestimate the importance of the hassle factor !

[fyrefli]

I think a lot of Brits have an island mentality but don't actually realise how different the continental Europeans, for instance, think. They find it simply unbelievable that I can just jump on the bike with my PG on the pillion and ride to Belgium, France or wherever to go flying, without ever seeing a customs or border post, because they only know the crazy fortress UK mentality. I went to Oberhausen on the bike a couple of years ago and there were, shock, horror, actually some police on the German border! ;)

There was some chap from the US on a thread here a few months ago decrying Schengen and finding it outrageous that I was able to do AMS - OSL without going through customs. Mate, you can jump through as many hoops as you personally like; just don't expect us not to laugh - and avoid the hoops wherever possible.

Large chunks of the UK populace still seem to be fighting the second world war - or against some perceived threat or other. Get over it. I was on take off at Coo on Sunday with 60-odd pilots speaking at least four languages in such a way you didn't even notice people flipping from one to another mid-sentence because it was the best way to be understood. And that's how a lot of Europeans think of the interaction of their people and countries too. Stop being so scared of difference and honour it in its celebration.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Strange as it may seem, fyrefli, I think you will find that you can hop on a train at Temple Meads and go to Newport (or take a flight to Dublin) with a similar lack of border paraphernalia. I agree with your observation of an "island mentality" that differentiates we Brits from continental Europeans, but that's because we are an island.

A land border is intrinsically unenforceable - even the Berlin Wall wasn't 100% effective - and inevitably a rather artificial construct. Even if it follows a major river, only a rowing boat is required to bypass any possible border controls. An island, on the other hand, has well-defined, natural borders that are capable of being enforced, and many of our continental friends find that difficult to empathise with.

Happily there remain many cultural differences between neighbouring countries within Europe - try commenting to your Dutch neighbours on their similarities to the Germans, if you'd like to see an example in operation :)

[ShamRoc]

Interesting that apart from MOL no other airline has "publicly" complained about the delays in the security process. Last week there was a huge queue at the "Second Security" post guarding Gates 25+ at LHR T1. All the flights were flashing "Final Call/Flight Closing" on the monitors but the security supervisor assured all those waiting (and protesting, I might add) that "all the airlines are aware of the problem and will hold flights until you are through!". In fact airline staff BA and BMI came to the area and attempted to call passengers forward. This is supposed to be a "random security screening area" but all passengers were being screened. The installation of a second screening gate does not appear to have helped much.
By the same token, in view of earlier remarks on this thread vis-a-vis shopping and eating/drinking have any of the businesses that rely on passengers spending money complained?

[Salusa]

Last one to leave UK please turn the lights out.

[PaperTiger]

Last week there was a huge queue at the "Second Security" post guarding Gates 25+ at LHR T1.
Like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4xba_YFHj8) you mean ? :eek: