Who designed the EC120?

[dogpaddy]

I know the subject of helicopter design in the sense of 'styling' is not often seen on this forum but I work in the car design industry and am curious how much of the end product is wind tunnel engineered/shaped and how much (if any) is designed.

My professional opinion is that the EC120 (and Dauphin) either had an aesthetically minded engineer on the project or an industrial/automotive designer.

I have only ever heard of the name Greg Focella in connection with the Enstrom Shark and the MD500E. Curious to find out more about the design/styling of helicopters. Anyone out there got any insights they'd care to share.

thanks

dp

P.S. am underway towards an ATPL(H) so I have an interest in both fields.

[g-mady]

Dont know the answer to your question but in my humble opinion its the best looking (shape) helicopter out there!

[Graviman]

http://www.eurocopter.com/ec120/#

Dogpaddy, in commercial sector styling sells but machine must be aerodynamically competitive. I imagine basic design is established by engineering team, but a stylist is consulted to tidy machine up.

Actually something of a bee under my bonnet, which you might be able to help on, is why am i still driving around in a car that has a lousy 0.3 to 0.4 Cd? Citroen DS achieved 0.19 Cd many years ago...

Mart

[helimutt]

Oh come on. The S76 looks much better than the EC120.

[Capn Notarious]

Oh come on. The S76 looks much better than the EC120.

By what criteria do you make the deduction?
Forget specifications performance. Just WHY

[lartsa]

CAPT NOTORIOUS
because its looks similar to the best ever looking helicopter
THE GAZELLE


and i will not forget the specifications and performance
Single Engine Magic

[helimutt]

The S76 looks balanced and sleek whereas the EC120 looks short and dumpy. Only my personal taste though.;)

[Hughes500]

On the EC120 the more interesting question is - who designed a 5 place helicopter with a wonderfully big luggage area (t:ok: en out of ten). Then dropped a large boll--k by fogetting to test it ie you cant put full fuel 5 people and luggage in it and get it off the ground, unless your 4 pax are 8 st lithe beauties with g strings as luggage. I now know where I have gone wrong in my flying career !!!!!!!!

[Revolutionary]

The Bell 47 isn't the sleekest helicopter ever designed but iconic nonetheless and important enough as a design artifact to earn a place in the New York Museum of Modern Art. Credited to the equally iconic Arthur M. Young, helicopter designer and philosopher, in the vein of both Leonardo Da Vinci and Nick Lappos;)


http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?object_id=2234 (http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?object_id=2234)

[Silvio Pettirossi]

I readed somewhere that the design of the EC120 fuselage was created by an industrial designer, but I dont know his name.
But I do remember reading on pprune that the design of the Jetranger was done by the famous Raymond Loewy for its commercial lounch, after Bell lost some military contract against Hughes with a rather ugly "form follows function" design.

[dogpaddy]

Before arguments get out of hand, remember that aesthetics are subjective, it's an emotional response. One man's meat is another man's poison.


Graviman,

I would imagine that as in car design, helicopter design is more or less set up by the package requirements i.e. passenger ergonomics, seating configuration, engine configuration, luggage space, main rotor/tail rotor configuration etc. It's then a case of joining the dots around these 'hard points'.

I am curious however if the designs of Greg Focella improved the aerodynamics of the Enstrom/MD500 if they had already been extensively wind tunnel tested.

The DS is a beautiful car and I am sure that there are other examples of earlier cars that are aerodynamically superior to modern cars. I don't know if the DS was designed with aerodynamics in mind or if it was a happy accident. What I can say is, that at the concept stage of a car's life, in all the companies that I have worked for (most of the major manufacturers), there isn't any aerodynamic input whatsoever! Even for the sports cars. This is probably because you've got to be a pretty ham fisted designer to come up with something that is so bad that it is thrown back at you because of aerodynamics. I think also that engine technology (efficiency) has improved since the days of the DS allowing cars not to have to be so slippery.


Hughes 500,

How many helicopters are there that can take off under MAUW situations? I would like to imagine Eurocopter slotting the EC130 power unit into the EC120. That's not stretching the imagination too much is it?


Revolutionary,

The Bell 47 (along with it's French counterpart, my dream chopper, the Llama/Allouette) may be iconic design, but pretty it ain't.


Silvio,

Well you learn something new everyday. I was unaware of Loewy's involvment with the Jet Ranger. it worked though, they are still using the same basic design today.

Thanks,

dp

[Tango and Cash]

My personal favorite in the helicopter aesthetics category has to go to the Bell 222/230/430 series.

[moosp]

I am hopelessly biased towards the EC120 as I share ownership of one and fly it frequently. It looks inordinately sexy on the ramp, and must have been designed by someone, male or female, with testoterone in their veins.

It gets good comments from first time flyers too, of both sexes, so it must be doing something right. It really looks the dogs.

OK it may have performance limitations but on the pure aesthetics of a turbine single it is up there with the car designs of Ferrari, Aston Martin and Lotus.

So back to the thread. Who did design it? Or was Eurocopter such an amorphous conglomerate at the time that it was a committee job? Perhaps EC does not want to recognise its designers to prevent them being poached by other companies?

[rudestuff]

The 500 is quite obviously the best looking heli out there - its shape is ubiquitous much like the 206 - but impossible to improve on - like the Rolex Submariner or the Fender Stratocaster.
So how could the man responsible for the benchmark against which all other light helicopters are measured have designed the pinnacle of ugliness that is the Enstrom? (good though they may be...)
Having said that, if you remember the old Citroen ads - the guy who made the Lamborghini Countach also designed the Citroen BX estate!

[[email protected]]

I'm with Lartsa - everything else is a poor copy of the Gazelle:)

[mikeem]

I am about to purchase a used EC 120 and have been advised that I should consider the As350 Super D or Super D2 instead. Does anyone own or operate either or both of these machines, who could cast some light on the debate. The machine will be used for VIP "bums on seats" type work and personal flying into the wilderness.

[Kulwin Park]

Mikemm, there is already a forum going on the Super D2 versus other Eurocopter machines. Maybe a 2 weeks ago, scroll back, you'll find it :8

Now back to designing.... Have always thought the Rotorway Execs 162's have a good design concept, but way too small!

[Dynamic Component]

mikeem,
For what you want the 120 is not a bad option. Just remember that you can't load up 4 pax with full fuel and have baggs in the boot. And if you're in a hot part of Australia, that would add to your limitations.:}

[mikeem]

My children weigh 75kg between them and my wife and I are 140kg between us. That leaves should allow camping gear (lightweight) and some spare fuel and water.

[Rigga]

As someone who has always been involved in the use of helicopters as a utility vehicle, I see the ec120 as a sort of hairdressers' car as compared to a Landrover! Okay for driving about town but not good for 'doing' much.

[mikeem]

A sexy hairdressers car! Why burn an extra 60l of fuel per hour when you don't want to sling anything? It is certainly a better option than the Jetranger which is 50 year old technology.

[Dynamic Component]

We've used 120s for utility work. They're not to bad. Not quite a 350 though.
I would call it more of a sports car than a "Hairdressers car" Unless you're refering to the fan that blows hot air?:}

[mikeem]

Not the same price as a 350 either.

[mikeem]

Not the same price as a 350 either. But I like the Sports car analogy. Does any one know about a carbon offset program for helicopter?

[andTompkins]

Tango and Cash ... look at you! Soon to be EC fellow favoring a Bell product! Good on you buddy! :}

[Head Turner]

Oh! come on you guys, the designer must have been that famous Capt who later designed the R66. My nice looking helicopter award has to go to the 222/230/430. The Gazelle a close second.

[SilsoeSid]

Who designed the EC120 ?

As with most vehicles, the clue is in the name.

EC - Enrico Cincinpet
SA - Simone Antoine
MD - pre 1988 Michael Draycott; post 1988 Mark Dewhurst.
WHL - William Henry Longthorpe; name kept in respect, 'cause we British are like that, after his demise in 1977.

The more obvious ones;
Bell - Larry Bell
Mil - Mikhail Mil
Kaman - Karl Manheim
Robinson - Frank Robinson
Enstrom - Rudy Enstrom
Agusta - Giovanni Agusta
Schweizer - Paul, William (Bill), and Ernest Schweizer

;)

[dogpaddy]

Sid,

rofl, very imaginative. Surprised that you didn't opt for Alexander Graham instead of Larry.

dp

[Porche]

I'd place the Augusta 109 high on a best looker list.

In the interest of fairness, the ugly award goes to the Wessex.

[bayou06]

If you want a REAL single engine small aircraft..Get a B407. You can fill every seat and a full bag of gas and still scream during take off.. I've had it at MGW and it still took off at 1000 fpm.

And don't even compare it to a Squirrel (what a name!). It's sleeker and doesn't have that nasty "servo transparency" problem.

[212man]

I find screaming during take off upsets the pax :E

[TangoMikeYankee]

Well atleast the EC120 and "Squirrel" don't chop their own tails off. More like a 40LEMON:E

[J.A.F.O.]

Can we please get back to the bit about 4 x 115lb beauties with only g-strings as luggage. :E