Question for Moderators:

[James Leite]

Would you mind telling me why it is that you censor out the odd profanity yet you are quiet happy to leave on the boards such oafish racial slurs as put up by Pontius Navigator Military Aircrew, " The Reaction of the British Captives to the Iranians " 8 April 2007 Page 5 1843 ) to wit - - " I looked a little different from the little yellow slit eyed bastards " Does this forum really need this gutter talk ?

James

[brickhistory]

Ummm, wasn't he paraphrasing from the quote of the actual POW?

[An Teallach]

Dear Mods

Please, please don't be influenced by poor Mr Leite being upset by Pontius Navigator's direct quote from a Vietnam War POW.

If we can't discuss historical subjects or draw historical parallels directly quoting the language of the time, PPRuNe will be the poorer for it. If Mr Leite wants history sanitised for his PC sensibilities, then I would suggest Mil Aircrew is not his forum.

[James Leite]

An Teallach;

Quote or not it makes no difference. Pontius Navigator saw fit to put it up. Your reaction makes me think you dont like the word " oafish " as perhaps it is a little to close to the bone.

James.

[ZH875]

I think this needs to go to a vote:

All those in favor of changing history, so that it makes no sense, but pacifies the PC brigade, raise your right hand.

All those in favor of keeping the records of the past as accurate as possible, raise your left hand.

[MrFlibble]

Considering it was a quote from the Vietnam War, it sounds perfectly appropriate to me. It wasnt directed at you Leite; if it was, you might have been justified in your position.

As it stands, sanitising the past for the sake of political correctness in the present, is in itself bloody ridiculous. :ugh:

ZH, one left hand has been duly raised :)

[MReyn24050]

ZH, one left hand has been duly raised here also:)

[An Teallach]

Left hand up

I'm sure neither PN, me or anyone else on the forum could give two hoots about the word 'oafish'. At the risk of sending Mr Leite into paroxisms of PC outrage, a small glossary:

Frogs, Bog-trotters, Boxheads, Huns, Nips, Wogs, Dagos, Eyeties, Wops, Ragheads, and, I'm sure you won't like this up you, Fuzzy-Wuzzies. All racial terms used at various times to describe people we were pitched against, often in conjunction with other epithets of which Bastard is one of the tamer.

Dry your eyes and write a letter to the Grauniad if it upsets you.

[tablet_eraser]

Good call, ZH. I vote we let history stand and learn from it rather than try to deny it.

[frostbite]

Well, I'm left-handed anyway.

HMG pump out enough PC rubbish without it creeping in here.

[TurbineTooHot]

Left hand here fellas, can't abide the history crushing due to the current craze of being overly sensitive.

Should've applied a bit more skin thickening cream chap!

TTH

[ChristopherRobin]

so anytime a newspaper quoted someone using profanities/racism, would you sue them too Leite?
what sort of a consensually lovemaking, differently sexually oriented, child of an inclusive single parent relationship are you James?

[Jackonicko]

"Does this forum really need this gutter talk ?"

What would you know? With six posts now, including responses, you're a newbie so have no clue as to what this forum does or doesn't need.

Need I remind you that it's the military aircrew forum? Anyone with a passing familiarity with military folk would expect robust language and no tolerance for PC.

And finally, PN is one of the more thoughtful (and dare I say liberal?) members of this forum, and was directly quoting, NOT endorsing, what someone else said.

If you don't like it, I strongly suggest that you bug.ger off somewhere more fluffy.

[brickhistory]

Oh, now I get it.


"Bast*rd" set you off........

[Maple 01]

Not that it matters that much but left hand up with the big boys - being a specky tw@t whose ancestors were Box-heads, Jew-boys and Frogs in no particular order and has a home that looks like a branch of the UN. PC my well-know website run for our Army chums!

[c130jbloke]

Left for me.
James, please get over yourself. It was a reference to a direct historical quote and in this forum, perfectly valid.
PS:
If you want some harsh banter, feel free to stick around...
:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[RotatingPart]

LEFT hand :ok:

[An Teallach]

ZH

Would it be cheating if I sat on my left hand for half an hour before raising it so that I may pretend it's someone else?

[Tiger_mate]

Left hand from me:

What was Guy Gibsons dog called again?

We are a poorer world for having children who never play outside, nor ride bikes, nor get cuts & bruises, and have no idea what discipline, or respect means. The tree hugging PC brigade will have a lot to answer for when their children cannot separate right from wrong.

The recent past may have chosen inappropriate words, but it was a differant world then, and despite the objections raised to initiate this thread, it was a better world in many respects.

James Leite: If you are a troll, then well done, you have caught a whale. If you are for real, then grow up and get a life.

[Maple 01]

AT don't ever change.....

[seekayess]

Egads & strewth!!

You guys sure can wade into a poor sod, can't you?

Spare him now, wont you? ;)

[Always a Sapper]

Yawn....
James this is a mil forum and as such is, to be honest one of the 'more' restained out there.
Me? I'm voting with the left hand.....

Now if the postings here offend and IMHO they don't.... can I suggest you may find this forum (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/) more to your taste??? While there, make a quick visit to The NAAFI Bar (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=12) and ask the same question there :eek: it could well produce a more satisfying and enlightened response :E :E :E

[c130jbloke]

Actually, I think that the replies are being relativly gentle on the PC loving newby who ran to the moderators at the first sign of something he found mildly offensive.

:{

[Almost_done]

Forgive me for making this a long post, but I feel that James has struck an issue here that goes to the root of our current education and apologetics culture. We are no longer able to rationally discuss events that have happened in history due to the ‘impact’ it may have on religions/cultures today. For this we are worse in the knowledge our children are getting and in their understanding of the world as it has been shaped today.

We (well at least I did) have stood against the Communist regime, a regime that was the doubletalk of 1984 (a George Orwell novel for those too young to know), that sanitised history to suit its own ends. Today we are now in the grip of a government that does the same, doubletalk newspeak or spin (as it’s now known) is everywhere.

What defines us is the fact we have a history it means that we did some good and grand things in the scheme of the world, it also means that we carried out some horrific acts too……BUT we understood this and have now reflected upon on these acts we changed ourselves, our laws and principles and we now stand for a better world.

If we deny our history and heritage to ourselves and our children are we better for it or poorer, I for one think that we would be poorer and that we would end up on the road to a non-thinking government controlled state, spoon fed from cradle to the grave. (oops we are almost there)

So my left hand is raised I stand against PC behaviour, it is wrong, we have to be able to cite examples from the past and at times we have to use that language to convey the message.

PCness is the failure of a society to examine itself, to be strong to say yup that’s us, call a spade a spade. If people cannot be robust enough to face their own failings may god help us.

No I’m not a BNP supporter either.

[ZH875]

ZH

Would it be cheating if I sat on my left hand for half an hour before raising it so that I may pretend it's someone else?
As long as it's not mine.......

[An Teallach]

ZH
To what 'it' are you referring?

Yours aye
An Teallach
Non-PC Jockinese Poofter off out to listen to Tomas Lynch, friend and bog-trotting Uillean Piper!

[Out Of Trim]

Left Hand UP! - Sorry I don't do PC.

[Gnd]

Left - and so is my friend!!!:\

[diginagain]

Dry your eyes, Princess.

Left hand raised.

[seekayess]

Wanna bet PC-James will insist it be called 'Trigger' or 'Digger'!! :}

[Gnd]

Bit strange this one - very new and seems to me to be opposing normal military values in his posts e.g. pro the others. Are we all biting when we should let James get his info somewhere else? I smell a rat?:oh:

[Pontius Navigator]

James has an interesting history which might have bearing on his initial comment:

I have to wonder what all you suburban smart alex who are so free with derogative comments . . . I am planning a visit to North Korea shortly and will fly Air Koryo from Beijing to Pyongyang and I am looking forward to it.

and

Your comments about the girls standing in the aisle during take off so as to assist in an emergency is interesting and I wonder if it is Air Koryo's policy or just a whim of those particular young ladies. . . . if Boeing's senior pilots do it with impunity then so can the girls of Air Koryo.

Pleased to see your thread title altered to something with a little more decorum. Did you change it or was it the moderator?

. . . I was recently informed by the operator of a tourist company that specialise in selective tours to North Korea that all Air Koryo's pilots were "military pilots"

or

You either dont know about or you have forgotten about the spyship USS Pueblo. The North Koreans did not bother to justify keeping the american interlopers locked up for a long time and considering the 15 were where they should not have been then they must be considered as interlopers too. The Iranians could have just as easily done the same thing.

Iran's actions imply " we are the good guys " and the others " the bad guys " At no cost to themselves the world sits up and takes notice. Maybe not brilliant but very very close to it.

So James clearly has a position and equally clearly is quite open about it; well done James.

[MrFlibble]

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/311368/MyPictures/OhRly.jpg

:ok:

[seekayess]

PN


:hmm:

The plot, as they say, thickens!!

[ProfessionalStudent]

You don't think it's (adopt stereotyped Korean accent now) Admin Gulu in disguise, do you?;)

[DON T]

Well done PN, my left hand salutes you.

[c130jbloke]

Of course !!!

James is a wannabe member of team america - world rule makers !!

Come on son, all this flack and no reply.....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Out of respect for my box-head mates, I shall be careful not to raise any arm too stiffly......:cool:

[seekayess]

James

You can checkout, but you can't leave!

And you can run, but can't hide!! :ouch:

[PICKS135]

Left hand raised

Re Gibsons Dog. Bought my own copy of 'The Dambusters' on DVD as I'm p**sed off with TV censorship.

[Kitbag]

Left hand held high. FFS history is full of crap we don't like. Acknowledging and reconciling that is what makes us civilised.

[cornish-stormrider]

Adding left hand to the seas of others waving nicely. Am I right in thinking that the two fingered V sign was originally to taunt the frogs:- as in we've still got our archery fingers

reaches over for his longbow

[Kitbag]

CS

Oh yes, you're right there. Shame only the French might really understand the significance though- and try telling the youngsters of today! They think we've always liked the French

[Always a Sapper]

Odd.... no take up on the invitation to take up the subject in the ARRSE NAAFI Bar yet by James ....... wonder why?

Was quite looking forward to that thread :E

[jwcook]

May I say that "raising the left hand" seems a little sinister to me..:)

Re racial slurs...

Officially in Australia being called a Pom in not a racial slur, but being called a "pommy b@stard" is!!!, as per a recent court ruling.

and you get national news readers over here saying Australia beat the "Paki's" at cricket, but its not said in a negative way, neither is "COON" cheese (yes its a real brand name) what a fantastic country!!

There is a small annoying few who try to drag the "pom" word through the courts to try to outlaw it... they are the problem, as it transforms the word from a somewhat dubious compliment to an outright insult..

In short - get a life... We don't need racial slurs to start a fight, as just punching someone can get your point across.

BTW Its hard to type with the left hand up... when can I put it down?

Cheers

[MadAxeMan]

Left hand from me too.

I don't do PC, Mac all the way.

iMac, don't you?

Thought that someone needed to lighten the mood.

[storl tern]

And another Pommie Bast*rd puts up his left hand. And so would my alter ego if I hadn't been banned for a personal attack (this isn't regarded as a personal attack on Leite is it???):ugh:

[seekayess]

Been a Mac-User for the last 20 years! Good to meet you, MAM!!

Cheers!

[Pontius Navigator]

James,

Having slept on the matter over night, I woke with the revelation that you are a silly little man.

What you have done with your ignorant post is to repeat, out of context, a phrase to which you object. By so doing you have opened yourself to ridicule; you have also elevated the phrase to the start of the thread thereby increasing its visibility to all and sundry.

In your efforts to impose strict censorship and communist conformity you have defeated your very aim.

What you should have done is to send me a PM to explain your argument and requested that I consider rephrasing my initial post. You could then, had I not agreed, used the little button under my name (A red warning triangle lest you did not know) to report the post to the moderators.

Any way, having drawn my attention to the offending remark, I hearby withdraw it. Anyway, I believe the term SLIT was from the Duke of Edninburgh whereas our cousins, I believe, used SLOPE. The original remark has been amended.

[storl tern]

Onya Pontious :E :ok: :ok:

[James Leite]

Pontius Navigator ;

If you think by changing one offensive word for another lets you off the hook then you are sadly mistaken. All you have done is to further identify yourself with the intent. Your slanging directed at me personally is duly noted.

TO ALL OTHERS ;

A great response, 49 replies in just over 12 hours but unfortunately not many thinkers. Mostly a lot of silly one liners that amount to nothing. Now what of the Arch Villian who stared all this; Mr Pontius Navigator? He seems to be keeping his head down by saying nothing of consequence and letting others clean up the mess he created. Also I cant help wondering about the physic of you gentlemen who so passionately step forward to defend the undefendable. That said, let's see if any of you can take another step ( in the same racial vein ) and explain to me the United Kingdom's disgraceful treatment of the Chago Islanders. " Dont want to hear about that " I hear echoing from Pontius Navigator's hole in the ground. It's a fair bet that's about all I am going to hear.

James.

[ProfessionalStudent]

James

Being from Asia, I honestly don't think you can sit on the moral high ground given the horrendous human rights records of some of your neighbours. We in the West have acknowledged that, through history, we have done some very wrong things - we no longer try to sweep them under the carpet, deny them or justify them. If you had been incarcerated and tortured by the Vietnamese, then you too may have thought them to be "slope eyed bastards".

It is clear you have no notion what it is like to be a prisoner of war and so should keep your blinkered and narrow-minded opinions to yourself. Many of us on here have stood in the face of the Taleban with the risk of having our crown jewels sewn to our tongues if captured.

This thread's put me right off Chinese...

[Fg Off Max Stout]

James, I am strongly against sanitising history. Doing so gives people an untrue interpretation of their own time. Describing enemies in 'harsh' terms has happened since the beginning of time and continues to this day. Using a derogatory comment to describe people who are actively trying to kill you is not so much a racist comment as an 'anti-enemy' comment. I know that their are some expressions used today to describe our opponents, that would cause the PC brigade to blush and cry racism but those uttering the words are not racists and their intent is not racism - it is simply a way of describing the enemy.

You've seen that nobody here shares your views and yet still fight your battle: here's a military aviation expression for you: 'If by day 3 of the course you haven't worked out who the course w--k-r is.... it's you'. (Expletive deleted for your sensitivities). Trying to drift this argument over to the Chagos islanders is utterly irrelevant to your initial complaint.

I suggest you poke off and read more Commando comics.

-Take that Fritz
-Achtung Englander. Gott in Himmel. Argh.

[360BakTrak]

My left hand is firmly in the air.:ok:

[salad_man]

Don't feed the trolls!!

[BEagle]

Anyway, James, perhaps it's time for you to stop worrying about words - and go find yourself a LBFM. One without an Adam's apple?

And it Chagos archipelago, incidentally. I agree that the treatment of the inhabitants was utterly appalling, by the way. Nice spot it is too!

[ZOFO]

Left hands duly raised by Mrs Zofo (Jockanese), Myself, and the two "Paddy" Mates that have called round with a case of the "Black Stuff" and a bottle of Bushmills.

Me thinks I will sign off now before i get stuck into the Bushmills !!:ok: ;)

[Green Flash]

Objecting to the facts, are we? (as in the fact in question was a quote). The quote may or may not be seen by some as acceptable, I don't doubt you feel offended - BUT IT'S THE REAL WORLD. Warts and all. It wasn't aimed at you, so get off your high horse. Are you the moral concience of a nation or something? It was said in other times when other forms of enlightenment existed. Right or wrong the quote was made, it's a fact. That's what was said. Open your mind. As has been said earlier, you are getting off light here. ARRSE would have your guts for garters in seconds.

Left hand up.

[storl tern]

I suspect that the complainant is the type of chap who wouldn't think twice about doing some seriously nasty things that are definitely outside the Geneva Convention should we find ourselves on opposite sides of a fighting war (as has happened with the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese - whoops! Is there a common thread there???)

[cornish-stormrider]

Gentlemen, I have just recovered to the vertical after a bad case of ROTFLMAO:E , I do feel the comment regarding Mr James and the spot the course ****** was a little unfair. It all depends on how many other ******s are on the course with him...........

Twas bloody funny though

[MightyGem]

Right hand raised he...sorry! Left hand! I hate it when it does that.

[An Teallach]

MightyGem

You are Dr Strangelove and I claim my £5!

http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/strangelove/images/dr_arm.gif

[matkat]

Left hand.

[Danny]

Whoever it was that sent in a 'Report this thread' complaint should understand that paraphrasing does not constitute abuse, especially in the context it was used here. If it had been a personal quote or observation and/or specifically aimed at one of our members on here then that would be a different matter.

Judgement: The lefties have it! :rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

Thank you Danny.

May I suggest the thread be closed?

[Gnd]

I think that was James:oh: , hip hip for Danny the wonder moderator:D

[JamesA]

Is this clown a reporter hard up to fill his weekly column?

Both left hands raised, bejesus, begorragh - you know us Paddies are smarter than the rest of you all.

James (not an adopted name to suit society).

[An Teallach]

Perhaps PN is right about thread closure, before anyone else posts any anachronistic racial stereotypes.

After all, we don't want to promote Mr Leite to the status of an oriental eminence grise hanging over the forum, do we?

http://www.biggles.info/37%20Biggles%20Gets%20His%20Men.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Rotf Pmla .

[RobinXe]

James my dear chap, are you familiar with the concept of a quote. It is where one person repeats what another has said elsewhere. It is not an endorsement or sign of support by the quoter for any sentiments the quotee may or may not hold.

Now, in the real world, if you do not like something that has been quoted, one might suggest taking it up with the quotee, who actually said it, rather than attacking the quoter with assumptions as to his motives and beliefs.

The only person I see here being offensive is you, accusing PN of horrible things, like being racist, without any foundation whatsoever.

May I respectfully request that you bugger off back down your hole. Somewhere out there is a bridge where billy-goats are crossing with impunity, oughtn't you get back there sharpish?

[Echo 5]

PN,

Just before the thread gets closed..............I think " slant eyed " would have been more appropriate than " slope eyed " but your choice. "Slit eyed " is the way the missus looks just before she throws a wobbly.;)

Left hand up bye the way.:D