Definitive GAR contact numbers / emails?

[IO540]

Does anybody have an up to date version of this stuff?

I had a reason to do this recently, only to find that the first few fax numbers were duff. Eventually I found one that worked; for a different part of the UK police force...

It would be quite handy to have a PDF that can be filled in. I can then print it straight to Winfax and send it to all three numbers. I do have such a PDF but a lot of the numbers on it are duff.

BTW - all GAR forms I have seen have the same very serious error on them: Shoreham is listed as Designated but in fact it is designated for Customs but not for Special Branch. The coppers at Shoreham don't care one little bit about this error; you still get a long "interview" (bollocking). In fact Shoreham should be marked same as Farnborough.

[bookworm]

AIP GEN 1.2 has a list of numbers for the Police, updated recently.

However the lists for Customs and Immigration appear to have been last updated in 1999!

[Fuji Abound]

IO

Why do you say Shoreham is not designated?

The official gov web site is here as is the GAR

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_Forms&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_PROD_009149
which indicates a publish date of March 2004.

Seems to me IF you use an email address given, and rely on the list of designated airports on the form from the government's own web site they would have a hard job proving you had not complied unless HM Customs and Revenue wanted to admit they were totally incompetent - which I am of course sure they are not.

(I agree based on the last reply in the House KA was excluded from the list of DAuPTA, however you would have thought the Government would be a little embarassed if they cant even get the official form right)

[IO540]

Fuji

I got a long interview there last year; that's how I know for sure :)

Shoreham is just the same as Farnborough on that GAR form; it should have *2 next to it.

It's designated for Customs (which means you don't have to advise Customs in advance before landing there from outside the EU) but it is not designated for Terrorism (which means you do have to advise Special Branch before landing there from the Common Travel Area).

A lot of attention has been drawn to that mistake over the last few years but it's still there on the URL you give.

[englishal]

Can someone remind me of the procedures flying TO the Channel Islands from a "private" - i.e. unlicenced field.

This is what I think it is but want to be sure so I don't get arrested :O

1) Fax the GAR form to the local police force at least 12 hours in advance
2) Fax the GAR form to NCU on 0870 240 3738 at least 24 hours prior to departure

But if I am only going for the day, I also need to fax an inward notification at least 12 hours in advance . Can all this be done 24 hours in advance to save hassle? So fax two copies of the GAR form to the NCU and one to the police?

ta

[dublinpilot]

Al,

This came up here a little while ago.

As per the GAR form
3. AT PRIVATE AIRFIELDS AND HELIPADS YOU CAN ONLY FLY TO AND FROM OTHER EU
COUNTRIES, UNLESS YOU HAVE AN AGREEMENT TO DO SO. IN PARTICULAR,
FLIGHTS TO/FROM THE CHANNEL ISLANDS WILL NEED TO BE AGREED WITH
CUSTOMS AND POLICE.
THE NOTIFICATION PERIOD IS THE SAME AS FOR GAA AIRFIELDS
As the Channel Islands are not an EU destination, you can not fly to them from a private field without AGREEMENT from Customs. You'll have to go from either a Customs/SB designated airport, or from a GAA aerodrome.

dp

[Fuji Abound]

To state the obvious customs and police notification is (presumably) only required in respect of the in bound flight - no need to report you are going.

Interestingly it is also my understanding that if you go to the CI for example, then to some where in France, and return from France to the UK only the customs notification is required.

For what it is worth I "tackled" the police today.

1. The telephone number at Gatwick was not answered all day, although they tell you this is the one to 'phone,

2. The local constabulary confirmed the number at Gatwick was correct and had no idea why it was not answered (no offer to find out why not). I asked them to confirm the fax number worked - they said as they weren’t at Gatwick they had no way of knowing - even more helpful,

3. I then asked them if they knew the information on the back of the GAR was wrong. They pointed out this information referred to Customs not Anti Terrorism, so I pointed out they were wrong. They said in any event the GAR was put out by the Customs and if the form was wrong that was nothing to do with them, Good to see are various Government agencies working efficiently and effectively together.

4. Finally I suggested that it was often very difficult to fax the form, particularly if you did not have access to a fax. I was told all airports have faxes! Of course I patiently explained that you were unlikely to be at the airport 12 hours before. I was told they were working on a mechanism to send the information by email. I decided not to explain that presumably they had had at least five years to solve that one since emails became really popular, so I it must be a very complicated matter!

These chaps are meant to assist us in providing this information as efficiently and painlessly as possible. The system is long overdue for a complete overhaul, the guys who run the system clearly have no idea what they are doing and have no understanding what so ever of the needs of pilots operating light aircraft. It the commercial world they would have been fired.

[ifonly]

"To state the obvious customs and police notification is (presumably) only required in respect of the in bound flight - no need to report you are going."


You have presumed wrongly as outbound and inbound notification is required for CTA and non-EU flights (from non-designated airfields), and you can already email the form to Customs. Unfortunately with 43 different police forces there's probably 43 different interpretations of the system - at least Customs have only got one place to send it.

[dublinpilot]

To state the obvious customs and police notification is (presumably) only required in respect of the in bound flight - no need to report you are going.


I can't give a definative answer in relation to customs. I had assumed the same as yourself in relation to customs, but the wording on the GAR seems to suggest differently in relation to non EU countries.

In relation to police, you most certainly do have to give notification for both inbound and outbound flights.

The reference is Terrorism Act 2000, Sch 7, Section 12(1)
12. - (1) This paragraph applies to a journey-

(a) to Great Britain from the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland or any of the Islands,
(b) from Great Britain to any of those places,
(c) to Northern Ireland from Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland or any of the Islands, or
(d) from Northern Ireland to any of those places.


dp

[Fuji Abound]

dp

You are correct. Thanks for the clarrification.

I suppose to France, then the CI, then back to France and then home would do the trick!

- not that I am bothered about telling them, but 12 hours notice! - why!

[IO540]

Yes, avoiding the special branch notice by dropping into France on the way is standard practice.

Naturally, the IRA never thought of that, in all those years.

[dublinpilot]

Naturally, the IRA never thought of that, in all those years.

The IRA are about to go into government. What threat is really possed to the UK now from someone based in Ireland, over and above any threat possed by those elsewhere in Europe?

Is there really still a need for an act placing restrictions on the movement of people between Ireland and the UK (and even UK-UK movements) if the same restrictions aren't needed for UK-Europe movements?

dp

[englishal]

As the Channel Islands are not an EU destination, you can not fly to them from a private field without AGREEMENT from Customs. You'll have to go from either a Customs/SB designated airport, or from a GAA aerodrome.
I see....but I'm pretty sure that our airfield which is unlicenced probably has a standing agreement - or else it is a real pain in the butt to go to the CI.

Anyone have a link to Bournemouth landing fees (we're sub 1000kg)? I'm starting to think the easiest way is to just drop in there first and do the biz and head straight off.

Ta

[dublinpilot]

Why not give Customs a call, and ask if they will AGREE to let you go?

No harm in asking ;)

[ifonly]

So fax two copies of the GAR form to the NCU and one to the police?

You only need one copy. There's space to put your out and details on, and tick boxes to indicate who's on the aircraft for the 2 flights.

[IO540]

There are thousands of private strips around the UK and many of them have standing agreements with special branch. I believe it then involves a notification only.

Special branch double up doing customs and immigration work anyway, they tell me that's their real main job nowadays, not the IRA.

[englishal]

Thanks for the info....I'll check with them...

[IO540]

I would like to know if any of the three services pass stuff onto the others officially.

I believe one has to advise each of the three separately, as applicable according to the appropriate matrix for the trip and the airport.

Some people have written along the lines that advising one does two of them but I haven't seen a reference for this.

[Fuji Abound]

Over the bank holiday I filled out the usual forms. I decided to ask what happens to them and who takes an interest (I wont say where to be fair to those involved).

The chap showed me a pile of forms - three weeks worth - no one had looked at them. He said recently due to the person involved being ill they had mounted up for over two months before they were collected.

What a complete and utter waste of time for all involved.

I have written to the local constabulary to ask why it has taken them ten years to devise a cunning plan to enable the forms to be filed by internet - I have even offered my services - I wonder if I will get a reply. I have also asked them why the information on the back of the GAR has been wrong for at least the last four years. Competant and in both come to mind but not necessarily in that order.

[ifonly]

FA

Not sure I understand your last post. Was it the local 'plod' who showed you the pile of forms or the airfield ? If it was the airfield then surely plod or customs would have looked at the faxed copies they received - if the airfield want to keep hard copies that's up to them.

I agree with you about the internet based GAR. Surely in this day and age this has to be the easiest option for all involved.