AS350 B2 vs SD2

[Dynamic Component]

I would like opinions of pilots and operators that fly/ operate Super D2s.
Are they better than B2s? It sounds good not having to deal with Turbomeca:}

[TwinHueyMan]

The Dec 06 issue of Vertical Magazine had an article in there on them, pretty good reviews, one of Papillions honchos said: "The Super Ds have consistently demonstrated excellent hot and high performance, while also showing an 8 percent reduction in fuel consumption"

You can download the issue here:

http://www.verticalmag.com/

-Mike

[Hughesy]

I have just completed a summer tour in NZ flying a BA, B2 ,Super D's and towards the end a Super D 2.
The landing sites are at 6-7000ft amsl and most flights have 6 pax (sightseeing) on board.
After flying the BA and B2 most of the time and then swapping to the Super D models I found the performance to be excellent. Depending on the flight, the BA with 6 pax we would carry about 50%, but with the Super D2, we could carry 70% and land with heaps of spare power. Also with the Lycoming/Honeywell engines, the ground idle was at 52%. MUCH quieter then 70% in the airiel ones. Which makes it much nicer when having the pax on the snow.
I found the overall perfomance great. It was also the quickest heli around the coast. Did temp out first at higher alt's though.
Also the fuel burn wasnt to bad either. Good thing about carrying that extra fuel, saves refueling every second or third flight.

Just my opinon

Hughesy

[Dynamic Component]

Thanks for the info.
I have read the Vertical edition with the Honeywell conversion details in.

Does anyone out there do lifting in SD2s? How does it compare to a B2. We work in 95degF-105degF (35degC-40degC) at around 2-3000ft.

Cheers
DC:}

[B Sousa]

Having flown them at Papillon, I have no complaints. It is a bit touchy on Tq and Temp on cold days believe it or not. Another small item getting used to was on the start your almost at the gate by the time you get to flight idle. Gate was designed for a different engine. Not a big deal just takes a couple starts to get used too.
B2 to me is sweeter than a B3 and wonder what the new B2s will look like.
Consider also that Papillon uses theirs for tours with a love seat. So usually its 6 + Pilot and in the Grand Canyon on a hot day can be looking at 45+ C.
I have not had a hook on the super D.

[Dynamic Component]

Thanks B,

There must be some people out there with lifting experience in SD2s??
Any Info:confused: :}

[T4.5]

Hi ppruner.
Any experienced pilots and engineers with such A/C?
Need to get some feed back on operation and maintenance, cost....
Thanks!:ooh:

[Ian Corrigible]

T4.5,

In addition to this thread, you may also want to look at the thread on the Honeywell LTS101-700D-2 engine (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=310195), which includes AS350 SD2 DMC/DOC information from Soloy's Dave Stauffer.

I/C

[David A. Stauffer]

Feel free to contact Soloy Aviation Solutions for contacts that are operating the SD2. We have over 80 Soloy SD2's in operations with many working longline missions.

360-754-7000
[email protected]

[Hiro Protagonist]

I have a bit of experience flying the SD2 at the altitudes your referring to. I'd say our SD2 regularly outperforms it own performance charts, and will out-lift a B2, but I don't know if we just have an above average engine. I was up to 9,000' MSL a couple weeks ago, but my loads were too light (heaviest approx 400 lbs.) and the wind was too strong to get very near the limits - which is good.

[nigelh]

What is the extra work required to convert a BA to an SD2 ? Also is this certified yet in the UK ?? I would LOVE to sell my almost new turbomeca engine :ok:

[David A. Stauffer]

The AS350BA can be upgraded to AS350B2 but only by Eurocopter. This would then allow the SD2 modification. The Soloy SD1 conversion for the AS350BA has been submitted to EASA for validation but approval timing is unknown. There are a few Eurocopter facilities converting BA's to B2's using a loaner 1D1 then converting the aircraft to SD2 after sign off.

The Turbomeca 1D1 engine values have dropped since last year most likely due to Soloy putting over 100 700D-2 engines in the field. The Arriel 1B engine may also have dropped due to the upgrade of BA to B2, many of the SD2 conversions went to AS350BA's that were upgraded to B2 configuration.

[nigelh]

any idea of cost to upgrade to D2 ? I would guess my engine would still be worth £150k + to put towards it .

[soloviev]

Good day.
Does anybody have good informations about the AS350 conversion with LTS engine?
Need some real figures about performance, DOC, support in Europe, maintainability, not those stuff from marketing but first hand information you can share with professionals as you are.
Thanks

[Gemini Twin]

In North America you can cover all inspections, accessory overhauls and replacement of life limited /cycle limited parts for $110.00/hour.
This is applicable to the latest 700D-2 and 600A-3A.

On the 700D-2 if you have a +20C power check you will easily exceed the IGE and OGE performance at altitude of the standard ship with the 1D1.

At altitude you will temp. out but long after the 1D1 has reached the Ng limit.

You will be able to fly 4 hour geo survey mission and land with reserve.

With the right equipment you will be able to take care of the "On condition" engine yourself.

With the very high cost for 1B engine overhauls the LTS600A-3A is the best option available for continued economical operation of the AS350BA.

Support is OK in North America/Australasia but not so good in Europe or South America.

[CYHeli]

Can the original B model be upgraded, or only the BA?

[Gemini Twin]

There is a complete STC'd kit to convert the B model using the installation kit developed for the BA and B2. It's a good choice if your 1B is down to a run out core. Next step is to upgrade the airframe to BA, the power margin of a LTS101-600A-3A in the BA are even greater than the LTS101-700D-2 in the AS350B2.

[CYHeli]

Thanks GT.

[eunecte]

We operate 9 BA+ and SD2. And they are nice engine. The only downside is that the engine respond to power change is slow like a bell 206.

[Gemini Twin]

That's correct eunecte, definitely noticeable after being used to the Arreil but not slow enough to need a beeper.

[BH06L3]

I've flown the BA, B2, FX2, D1, D2. The FX2 is basically the same as D2 but converted by heli lynx. Favourite and best performance was the D2 only because I hate the FX2 gauges. Done sling work with and found in the summer hot days on the FX2 I flew between 5000-10000 was limited by T4 could only get about 95 Tq. Some days. The SD2's I flew 1000-3000 and never had temp issues on hot days but some engines would come very close to max T4. i think it really depends if you have a good engine on the D2's. the D2's Could easily lift more than our B2. And was preferred by all pilots in our company for heavy sling jobs. The D2 is usually a little lighter than the B2, and a little better on the fuel and is a great helicopter.

[heli_79]

Hi all,

With many operators now using the SD2, does anyone have more info on how they perform, cost for private op's and commercial?

Understand lower operating costs compared to Turbomecca 1D1, but there should be more SD2's in Australia and NZ.

Just looking at options.

[Gemini Twin]

heli_79, see post number 15 of this thread, it's still valid.


There are 8 Soloy SD's (700D-2 powered AS350B2) in NZ and 14 in Australia.

[krypton_john]

Island Hoppers in Fiji are running a Helilynx LTS101 conversion so will be seeing some hot but not much high with their work. Anyone from there with any comments?

[heli_79]

Thanks Gemini Twin (http://www.pprune.org/members/333040-gemini-twin)

Some valid points made there.

The Fuel saving alone is a real strong point and less overheads. It seems more of them are being used and more improvements compared to 5-6years ago.

Cheers