Empty/Dead Leg market

[starshiptrooper]

Thanks in advance for your comments. I'm doing a research project on the empty leg section of the private heli and non jet market.

I would be interested and grateful to hear of any other companies who have tried to sell the empty/dead legs and failed/suceeded (who are they?) and for what reasons and what resource did they use i.e. internet database/website etc ?

Problem areas I see as follows :

1. If the already paid leg decides to cancel or change times considerable this could have implication on the empty leg if sold. What normally happens on these occasions ?

2. Do you sell the empty leg at the normal full price return journey or just the single leg price....if single leg what happens if problem 1 occurs ?

I think there are many ways of approaching the empty leg market and much appreciate those who have been accross this topic before for infomation. Please pm or reply to the thread


Thanks once again for you time.

Rgds

SST

[ShyTorque]

If an operator is non-AOC / private he cannot legally sell any legs at all!

[Whirlygig]

I'd give my right arm for a dead leg!

Seriously .... the training establishment which I frequent does offer these to students for a negotiable and advantageous (to both parties) rate!!

Cheers

Whirls

[ShyTorque]

"I'd give my right arm for a dead leg!"

So you'd like someone to come and give you one?
Sorry, shouldn't have said it but you really set yourself up for it... :E

Btw, a training org will be operating under a TRTO / AOC so that's quite legal.

[Whirlygig]

.. but you really set yourself up for it...

Well, I set someone up for it!

Cheers

Whirls

[AlanM]

Biz-Jet based - but see

http://www.bizjetexpress.com/

[starshiptrooper]

What I also meant was the commercial helicopter side aswell...i.e. PremiAir,Starspeed, Harrods, Heliaviation, MultiFlight etc etc not just the private ! Happy with the fact that you would generally need to have an AOC to sell the dead/empty legs of a flight.

Would appreciate any comments from those flying for commercial operators.

And thanks for those who have already posted,

Rgds

SST

[Whirlygig]

Since the training establishment which I frequent is also a commercial operator with an AOC, then I would suggest that other such establishments which are also FTOs/TRTOs may offer such trips to their students?

Otherwise, unless you are rated on type, you would need an type-rated instructor with you.

Cheers

Whirls

[Xavier Dosh]

Hello Starship,

I'm glad to see that you're still using the site!

There are a number of companies that are already trying to make use of these trips....

IAC run www.emptylegcharter.com (http://www.emptylegcharter.com)

Avinode is another popular website that markets a similar service...

Personally, I think that because of the nature of helicopter charter - this service may be limited. The Unique Sales Point with Helicopters is that they (are supposed to) come to you and not the other way around. Equally, the average sector time is what? 25minutes? It would be difficult to sell a Shepton Mallet to Battersea (One Way) as an empty leg?

I'm very happy to be proven wrong and would be delighted to hear some more from you but I do think it's a bit limited!

Best wishes

Xavier
:ok:

[Perro Rojo]

Trooper,

I think the answer you are looking for is that almost all the commercial helicopter operations operate on "exclusive use" contracts so to get pax on empty legs (few and far between) you would have to coordinate with the customer, usually a multi-national oil company or government agency.

Having said that the chances on getting them to agree are approximately zero due of insurance and liability reasons.

[puntosaurus]

AlanM, that is such a cool site. Looks like you could go to Paris pretty much any day.

[nigelh]

emptylegcharter seems to do nothing other than offer links. There is a company that has been developing the software to match empty legs with charters, working out deviation time/cost etc very clever indeed. They are coming to the market in a few weeks offering full charter service fixed wing jet and prop and helicopters and empty legs on all of these.
Watch this space !!:ok:

[ShyTorque]

I see where this is going and good luck with your quest. :)

Unfortunately, helicopter flights are about as far removed from "scheduled" as it's possible to be.

Passengers often, if not most usually, just want the aircraft and pilot to be there when they decide to leave, "whenever that may be".

Lateness has a knock on effect to the return customer. Ask any heli pilot or ops person. :(

[nigelh]

I do not totally agree with you...if i do a charter i may set an exact time for t/o and landing in order to go to another job afterwards...in this case they just pay for their flight time say 1.30 min £1300 plus vat If they want to Lord it around and go when they feel like it fine!! They will pay extra for the privilege of making the pilot hang around...it is a matter of HOW you sell you flights, if you give the impression they can turn up when they like ....they will !! If they want a keen price they stick to the times .:ok:

[Whirlygig]

If they want to Lord it around and go when they feel like it fine!!

And many do! Money is no object to some!

Cheers

Whirls