RAF Casual Clothing Range

[PhoenixDaCat]

http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/rafclothing.cfm

wtf?

now as a VR(T) officer I know my place in the scheme of things, but last week the whole ACO was told that there would be no uniform issued to cadets as there is a shortage of trousers and jumpers.

Maybe we should kit our kids out in the casual clothing range.

[norvenmunky]

The bloke on the balcony showing the crest on his arse.....brilliant!

[Pontius Navigator]

Why, when I click for a larger image on what looks like Tiger Tits do I get a pair of Underwoods instead :(







My birthday soon. Just time to tell everyone not to think of buying one of these for me.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

£35 for a scabby polo shirt :rolleyes:

They are having a laugh but I guess the Walts will be beating the doors down.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Has there ever, ever, ever been anything quite so 'tacky' in the history of the Royal Air Farce?
How utterly ashamed I am that this once proud service, has allowed itself to stoop the levels that it has arrived at now. Can you imagine what our fellow aviators around the world must think? Disgraceful.

Glenn, are you proud of the fact that your service has descended to such an abysmal depth? What are you going to do about it?

God, even the Underwoods look a little embarrased!

TSM

[tacr2man]

I have a daughter in the ATC as a cadet, I have had to source most of her gear myself, ebay and ex mil stores. Why the shortage or are we using the funds to finally fund the equipment for the personnel in the sandpits.
I cant believe that the items are the size that fits regular force operational staff ? Or is this just another logistics cock up?
still its good exposure for the cadets to way our mil is run now:confused:

[Lara crofts pants]

I might, just might, have to put a poster up in the Virgin Atlantic planning room. Tony will love that

[Bertie Thruster]

By the left quick march.......oh bugger....



http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/12DF743B_1143_EC82_2E548D75912F5E28.jpg

[Mr Blake]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007140254,00.html

Extremely fetching bikini, soon to be de rigguer in the Mess. Or alternatively, many wifes may appreciate this in their Chrimbo boxes.

Now the Sun has got hold, expect more terrible puns.

[RETDPI]

Something else to pop in the Samsonite.

[Bertie Thruster]

Perfect for hangin' round the (MQ) estate?-----------

http://www.rafcollection.com/images/products/RAFM7979_TN.jpg


It's even got an aiming point on the back for any tazer equipped Police chasin' u round.


http://www.rafcollection.com/images/products/alt/RAFM7979/RAFM7979_A_SM.jpg

[Lord_Flashheart]

Words fail me...:ugh:


My Biggles spoof is in danger of being overtaken by reality....


Is this the same air force that can't get the legal small print sorted on the
desperately needed FSTA tanker/transports but somehow has enough manpower to dick about with employing an Air Commodore in a possible (SO1 (DEC) Bikini Design Requirements) post.....?????


Or are sales of the 'Second to none' strides going to pay for Typhoon Tranche 3, some new helicopters, JSF and all the Hercs to be fitted with foam???

[stickmonkeytamer]

Who in their right mind (apart from ATC cadets with rich parents and IOT cadets) will be buying that at those prices?

Abercrombie and Fitch is the way forward! The new Saville Row shop was great at the weekend (despite the queue).

Can they get Caz Leavy as a model? Posing with the Samsonite...


SMT

[Wader2]

TSM, Has there ever, ever, ever been anything quite so 'tacky' in the history of the Royal Air Farce?

But surely you sold your fair share on 8 Sqn Blow Job knickers?

[JagRigger]

I just wonder how it's gone down with the Ben Sherman goods range, that have used the roundel for years on clothing etc.

[ProfessionalStudent]

Who in their right mind (apart from ATC cadets with rich parents and IOT cadets) will be buying that at those prices?

You forgot ATC instructors on summer camp...!:E

I take there'll be a military discount rate?

And I take it the RAF will be changing it's WRAF recruiting policy to reflect the bikini model? We can but live in hope I suppose...:ok:

[PhoenixDaCat]

Nope. Civilian Instructors are going to be "issued" with poloshirts with the words

Royal Air Force
Air Cadets
Civilian Instructor

across the left breast

[London Mil]

Lighten up guys. :) If it is in a good cause and if someone is going to put their hand in their pocket then surely it is a good thing? OK, Biggles walking into the mess bar on a Friday evening dressed in The Range is undoubtedly going to get a bit of stick, but surely that is no different to us having a go at the maroon corduroy and checked shirt brigade?
So, we bleat about a clothing range and whether the word 'cleared' should be used on the RT. I bet there are many non-RAF reading this forum who just think we are a bunch of whingers.

[Lafyar Cokov]

How are they going to check that only those entitled will be wearing wings? Maybe navigators will start buying this stuff!!?!?!!?:} :ugh: :yuk: :D

[ProfessionalStudent]

Originally posted by londonmil

I bet there are many non-RAF reading this forum who just think we are a bunch of whingers.

And your point?

[Wader2]

The costume(bikini), with a pink and blue version of the RAF roundel, is part of a 50-item clothing line launched yesterday.


Ex-England rugby stars Rory and Tony Underwood — both fliers — also modelled the gear.

Now I haven't found that picture yet.:}

This will provide a whole new source for Caption Competition!

[An Teallach]

There's a very early 70's look about the bikini. We'd better watch out for BEags ...
Nurse!
http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2007140534,00.jpg

[JessTheDog]

Hideous! :eek:

Polo shirts are for the lazy and have a habit of clinging to the (ahem) fuller figured midriff.

The shirt looks OK but overpriced and definitely a banter-magnet.

Will these be allowed for wear in the Mess Mon-Thurs evenings? :p

[BEagle]

Oh good grief.....

Early '70s look to it? Hardly - more like mid '60s!

It's like something my old prep school matron (thoughts of whom still cause a rush of blood to the bits :ok: ) might have worn. Did they get the belt idea from Arsula Undress in Dr No or what?

Poor girl - how many sniggers would she get about her 'round things' or 'pink bits'?

Somehow one feels that this won't set the Cote d'Azur alight with envy....

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry BEags, as a mere bloke you ought to defer to Mrs PN whoe comments were "70s. No way."

[BEagle]

Were those 2 separate questions you posed to Mrs PN.....

[Pontius Navigator]

BEags, in a way. I showed her the Sun pic and she immediately identified the year. I then showed her the catalogue and got the second response.
TGFT, at least that is one thing less to worry about for my next birthday.

[BEagle]

You...showed...her...the...catalogue?? The RAF 'Fab MoD Gear For Groovy Chicks' catalogue??

Are you still talking to eachother??

And, errm, one less thing for your next birthday.........:eek: ?

[spekesoftly]

Opportunity missed with the belt idea, should have gone for something a little more military!

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/mrogers/2005/04/09/ursula-andress---h_2115564a.jpg

[An Teallach]

Apologies for my temporal disorientation Beags. I can only plead that I was 5 when the 60s ended. At least we now know what PN wants for his birthday!

The pattern on the bikini looks as though it might have been inspired by some brainwashing light show from The Prisoner. Perhaps Leo McKern was attempting aversion therapy after Patrick McGoohan copped a feel of Mrs Number 2's bristols in Portmeirion?

I'll stop this now. In a cultural crossover, my mind's eye has just seen Hilda Rumpole in an RAF bikini. That'll be me remaining a poof for at least the next 10 years then ...

[electric.sheep]

To put this in some sort of context:



RAF head of communications, Group Captain Andy Turner, said the launch was more about raising positive publicity for the RAF than making money.
"It is a bit like Ralph Lauren, that sort of style of clothing. High quality, developed with great taste and aiming at the centre of England in terms of psychology and type of people," he said.
The British-designed clothes are manufactured in Europe and the Far East for London-based clothing firm JOI - the RAF's commercial partner in the venture.
Any money made by the RAF will go towards the Royal Air Force Museum's two sites in England. JOI managing director Nick Adams said the firm was in talks with one UK high street chain and with retailers in the US.
"The States look like they are going to go absolutely mad over it because they love anything royal and anything British," he said.
RAF public relations spokesman, Squadron Leader Kev Harris, said: "I think it is an excellent use of the RAF brand. No money is going into it from us whatsoever, we are getting something for nothing. "We are getting our brand on the street and a new channel to communicate with the public. It is not for recruiting but there will obviously be some spin-off for recruiting."

Although at those prices if the RAF isn't making any profit, then the merchandising company must be making a mint.

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, I had to make sure there was no mistake or mistaken rush of enthusiam.

I think we managed.

[mystic_meg]

The costume(bikini), with a pink and blue version of the RAF roundel

Begs the question: Is this bit of kit subject to a thorough B/F and A/F, just like anything else with a roundel on?? :E :E

[Bismark]

RAF public relations spokesman, Squadron Leader Kev Harris, said: "I think it is an excellent use of the RAF brand.

I am astonished that the RAF has allowed this to happen. The logos look awful on civilian clothing, with the bastardisation of the pilot's wings the worst. I feel sorry for those serving in the RAF.

[threeputt]

My eyesight was never good but, does the," light on his loafers," bloke on the balcony not bear a striking similarity to the current OC 99 Sqn?:E

3P

[BEagle]

I didn't realise that the MoD twats running this farce, 'Andy and Kev' :rolleyes:, have actually allowed these rag floggers to use the Royal Air Force Flying Badge on their overpriced tat and to allow non-entitled personnel to flaunt a badge to which they are NOT entitled.

Can you imagine the Army using the SAS badge on polo shirts for the great unwashed?

Whatever lunacy will the fools in the MoD-box come up with next?

Andy and Kev, get a b£oody grip and get the RAF Flying Badge off this cr@p!!

[Gaspode the Dog]

Saw this in the Sun today, thank (insert the appropriate deity) I am out in a few months. Still I can always sell my aircrew long johns on ebay, complete with certificate of authenticity!!!! :rolleyes:

[Dan Gerous]

Wonder if she has parallel runways under those Bikini bottoms. Anybody remember the FOD poster featuring Ursulla Andress?

[JessTheDog]

Good point. Is it a paid-for "brand" or a badge that aircrew have died wearing? Likewise, the roundel which appears on the Ensign that many of us have saluted at 0800 and 1800 (1600 in winter)?

[An Teallach]

I wonder if orderly officers would turn up on time to wave at the flag if they had to salute this:

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2007140534,00.jpg

[JessTheDog]

Would you prefer to turn up for it being raised or lowered? :oh:

Edited: hoisted removed and raised inserted. Even that sounds rude!

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, should we know who Kev and Andy are? Is it on the web?


PS

Cheap delivery £5.95 in UK. £10 or $15 to US. Good exchange rate there. Maybe appeal to Colonial ppruners.

[snapper41]

I'm appalled. OK, so RAFA has had RAF items, with logo, on sale for years, all in a good cause and aimed at the ex-serving folk, but this is utterly pathetic - a cheap attempt to appeal to 'yoof'. The 'wings' issue winds me up most; people sweat blood to get them, and often have given their blood whilst wearing them. What a sorry day this is. It genuinely saddens me to see my Service reduced to this. Funny, isn't it, that initiatives like this are never revealed to us serving members before 'roll-out'. Can anyone hear that noise? It's Bader, Gibson and Cheshire turning in their graves...:*

[BEagle]

I think I might drop a note to my ex-RAFC B Sqn colleague of 1969, one ex-Flt Cdt J Stirrup.........

[Pontius Navigator]

Or as Miss PN just said, the face of a 50 year old and the body of a 20 year old. And what is RAF about that.

As PN, may I add I like the super white detergent roundels, reminds me of 60s Vulcans, which may have been why BEags thought 60s.

[Union Jack]

This is appalling - I haven't been quite so upset since I discovered that anyone who wanted could have a "brass hat" - so long as it was on a baseball cap!

Jack

[Wobbler Fang]

How unbelievably sad. What were once badges of pride and honour are reduced to high street market gimmicks by a handful of unthinking but ambitious officers and the rapacious schemings of an idiot marketing company who have been responsible for many marketing failures in the last three years yet are still under contract. Considering the waste of money on magazines, air shows, websites and clothing the collective cretins in DDefPub(RAF) are responsible for, it is no wonder the RAF is broke, both monetairily, and as a force for good in the eyes of many. You are what you recruit.... so aim your campaigns carefully.

[Captain Ratpup]

Grumble grumble grumble... :ugh:

They're just some clothes! On the topic of the abuse of wings, surely people can distinguish between your everyday aircrew and some pretend-pilot propped up at the bar boasting to anyone who will listen about when he got shot down in 'Nam? It's the SAS effect: the people wearing all that SAS bling and talking about 'selection' and the likes are the ones least likely to have had anything whatsoever to do with it.

Let people wear this stuff if they want. Just as you judge the gaggle of hoodies causing mayhem on the council estate, you'll judge the bloke who walks into your pub wearing a sheepskin jacket and/or bizarre combination of 95s...

[BigGrecian]

Following the RAF's failed attempt to trademark the roundel - they're still trying to make a buck out of the "brand"
Wonder how many people we'll see wearing these items around the mess?

http://www.rafcollection.co.uk/

[Cmn2644]

When I heard about this, I thought it was actually a good idea and I thought they would be appealing to the 'tourist' market ... much like half the world wearing NYPD t-shirts and those USAF t-shirts !

However, the collection is not only limited but very expensive and not anything I would choose to wear. They seem to be appealing to a very small market and to people who would pay £50 for a plain shirt just because it said RAF on the lable !! I would be amazed to ever see anyone in the mess with any of it !!!

[SmilingKnifed]

Surely there are personnel who can be employed (by an already overstretched air force) on more important duties than trying to flog this sub-Ralph Lauren tat.

Why not go the whole hog with it? Stick to knocking out bland clothing and sub-contract the warfighting to Primark.:mad:

[Mike Oxmels]

Jesus H Christ. I've seen the bl00dy trainers before but this is even worse. Trenchard, Bader, Harris, Dowding, Gibson and practically everyone who has ever earned the right to wear the uniform with pride would weep to see this. Firstly, that the RAF has been reduced to a f----g catalogue store and secondly that the sacred RAF pilots' wings can now be worn by any muppet with a few quid to spare (and the RAF made this situation happen rather than opposing it).

This really is a case pawning the family silver. I cannot wait to meet someone wearing one of this shirts. Cannot wait.

What price the RAF's dignity and self-respect? £25 + P&P.

[Pontius Navigator]

Very tempted by a pair of Ben Sherman underpants (not) in TkMaxx. Lot cheaper than RAFTAT. Even better they had DPM underpants too. REAL Walt stuff.

[Sven Sixtoo]

Saw this on return from overseas (leave not sandyside).
I thought it was an Apr 1 spoof.
I am dismayed if they are selling wings.
Sven

[Hovermeter]

Remember when we all got bollocked for wearing leather flying jackets?
Makes me weep to see the RAF prostitute itself this way! Concentrate on our people and sending out the messages of good work we do......stop competing for Market Trader of the Year:ugh:

[samuraimatt]

Quite right wobbler. I don't think they will be wasting too much money on air shows this year as most displays have been cancelled.

[Wobbler Fang]

Sadly you are right samurai, but I was refering specifically to the "Spirit of Adventure" show this company was responsible for last year that never happened, and the two magazines its failed to produce, and, and, and, and....

And they are still contracted! Waste? No, DDefPub are too smart for that surely? The mind boggles. Still, if they start making desert kit available through this range, it will at least reduce the queues of new arrivals at the Al Udied PX.

[Talking Radalt]

I was refering specifically to the "Spirit of Adventure" show this company was responsible for last year that never happened
If at first you don't succeed.....:hmm:...blunder on regardless.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/index.cfm?storyid=B707A88F-1143-EC82-2EC8506F9605E753

[Pontius Navigator]

Samaurimatt,

I believe the meeting of the participation committee was quite a bun fight.

Organisers had been hard at work for 6 months when the meeting took place.

New thought - let's show the RAF at work - like cooks cooking, engineers engining etc. (I remember when RAF cooks indeed provided catering rather than Bakers' Oven or whatever).

Fast pointy things going left - right - right - left - up - down did not actually showcase the RAF. Instead an air show would be role themed. Maybe (I am guessing) EAW themed. Like Herc doing short landing, RAF Regt firng off noisy thingss. Or big mushroom spinning, all ISTAR assets showcased ect.

Then a paradox. How could we show case a heli assault around the bazaars and, at the same time, say we were short of helicopters?

What were we proving with a 'fabulous' Typhoon display when the operational aircraft were being thrashed?

I know, lets have a clothing line - show case stores.:}

[Talking Radalt]

Maybe Vauxhall, known for their not-so-limited-editions, could produce an RAF-themed Corsa? :E
(Joke, people at MOD, ok? I was joking)

[Pontius Navigator]

Helen has some RAF Themed clothing, well modelled here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAF-Flying-Suit-Tornado-Harrier-Hercules-Jaguar_W0QQitemZ330116645565QQihZ014QQcategoryZ121903QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So which Mess is she posing in? Looks like a 70 Sqn T-Shirt and possibly Peter Squire's name tag. :}

[TheWizard]

and a 33 Sqn crest on the arm!!

[NRU74]

...has she wet herself ?

[Pontius Navigator]

NRU, how could you. Anyway, she is clearly a Walt as no FJ mate would wear a flight suit like that with knee pads and no colostomy bag.

[ProfessionalStudent]

Is she not standing in front of the former commandants' pictures in CHOM?

[BEagle]

Yes, I think the photo was taken in College Hall.

But SHOCK! HORROR!! Won't the OT staff blow a fuse over someone seen in a flying suit ('flight suit', Paunch-ous, how depressingly American of you....) within the hallowed environs of College Hall?

I sincerely hope that she didn't have the temerity to walk upon the Senior Entry carpet.....:eek:

[ZOFO]

I must admit I am disgusted in this range of "Casual Clothing" What is going on?, a "bankrupt" company that can't even afford to equip its troops with the correct body armour, fire supression systems etc... the list is endless, still has the gaul to market this "Truck" Come on get a grip! We don't want "Walts" with wings we want the proper gear to get on with the task in hand.

How much money do you think has be squandered on this pile of Pooh.:mad: (oops sorry the beancounters/Airshipts always squander money on a pile of sh:mad: e that looked good/ready for the job 10 years ago)

But I dare say he/she probably got the nod and moved onto a "Chess piece at STC"

Ah but as I read on other threads there is a huge percentage of us happy with our jobs etc...:rolleyes:

Like to know just who they surveyed, I never got one.

sorry folks rant over just realy p'd off at the "Jelly Fish backbone attitude" of some of our illustrious leaders.


"Secret is not a dirty word, but Crevice is disguting"

[ZH875]

Has anyone else received their 15% discount letter for the 'RAF Children's Collection'?.

I was amused to receive a letter describing me as a 'valued customer', when I haven't purchased any of thier tacky clothing range. HONEST!!!


Are they getting worried about sales?

[AR1]

Dont see what the problem is myself - its only like wearing a replica football shirt to show which team you support - no implication that you ever played for them.

Instead of ridiculing people who thought they were supporting you by buying it, perhaps you'd prefer people to walk round in a T-Shirt that had 'F*** Off RAF' on the front?

[Wader2]

Dont see what the problem is myself - its only like wearing a replica football shirt to show which team you support

Actually I think that is really sad too. The very idea of wearing an advert and paying for the privilege; oh dear.

I even wear my pyjamas inside out to hide the Batman logo.

[Zoom]

If the replica kit wearers had any brains, they would be insisting on the clubs/manufacturers, etc paying them to tote their adverts around on shoddy material.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Allegedly there wasno cost to the RAF for these items, merely the senior officer salary being diverted to do the staff work, which will probably have cost some one somewhere something.

[Wader2]

How about the costs of the male models? :}

[AR1]

Actually I think that is really sad too. The very idea of wearing an advert and paying for the privilege; oh dear.

I even wear my pyjamas inside out to hide the Batman logo.Darn...Never thought of it that way. I have a wardrobe full of Chippenham Town shirts.

Whats the betting that the MOD change the shirt design every year!

[buoy15]

What is worrying me is, if I buy the complete range for my wardrobe, do I only have to pay one price for P&P or do I have to pay for each item?:confused:

[Wader2]

The new catalogue just hit my desk, out of curiosity you understand.

The model is about 25 years younger and blonde. Before you all start salviating, there are no undies in the women's collection. For the ladies however those rugged hunks designed to appeal to pre-pubescent youths are back but strictly on a reprint from last year.

Also from last year are the prices: £50 for a shirt, 15 quid for a pair of mens briefs and almost 200 for an 'off duty leather' jacket and the drill sergeant would spin his grave with those whiskered models.

I wonder if orderly officers would turn up on time to wave at the flag if they had to salute this:

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2007140534,00.jpg

[airborne_artist]

http://www.rafcollection.com/images/products/large/RAFW8083P.jpg

"A ladies lounge wear piece in pale pink with striking silver foil design making it an eye-catching and comfortable style, ideal for sleeping or for lounging about."

Ideal for the SAR Force, perhaps?

[Fg Off Max Stout]

What a lovely little outfit that is A_A. Perfect for signing on at the benefits office or trawling around Matalan with the ethnically diverse brood of fatherless offspring in tow. It just needs some Elizabeth Duke gold-style jewellery and a fag to accessorize. Maybe a lone fat roll bursting for freedom between the Bacardi Breezer stained tanktop and the trakky-bots. Very 'Waynetta'. What an inspired way to raise the profile of the RAF.

How surprised I am that this fashion brand failed to dominate the high street trends this season. I'm sure I remember the RAF 'PR and family silver pawning' department confidently assuring us that these would be big sellers, bringing in huge revenue that, no doubt, could have bought a few sets of body armour, desert boots, 5.56, anticipators, fuel pipe seals, suppressant foam etc etc.

I still feel that this trend of trying to make a commercial brand out of the RAF then hawking the exploitation rights to private companies who proceed to lay waste to the RAF's reputation, is deeply wrong, damaging and embarrassing. After the fiasco of those crappy airshows without aircraft, I would have thought that the powers that be would knock this sort of rubbish on the head. Perhaps the RAF legal branch drew up a contract where we surrendered all rights for eternity!

The use of the RAF wings on this tat is a gross error of judgement and sends the wrong message to everyone who sees these items, both civvy and mil.

[airborne_artist]

It is, I'm afraid to say F/O MS, perfect ammunition for those who say that the junior Service has no class. I can't really see 1SL or CGS sanctioning such kit, can you?

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Indeed. Perhaps the RN could advertise a gents studded leather thong with the 'double dolphins' on the front or the Army could sell a hoodie with the text of the commissioning scroll on the back.

I always understood that the symbols of the uniform such as the cap badges, the crown, the rank slides etc were direct symbols of the authority of the Head of State, and represented the authority and responsibility of those who were authorized to bear them as members of the Monarch's armed forces (just as a policeman's warrant badge is rather more significant than just a bit of metal). Likewise, a set of RAF wings, is the primary evidence that the wearer has successfully completed one of the hardest and most selective military professional courses that exists. How old fashioned of me!

Turns out I was wrong. Apparently they're just bit of cloth and metal, transient fashion items, that can be worn by anybody and then be ditched like last season's Nike earrings.

What a travesty.

[airborne_artist]

Turns out I was wrong. Apparently they're just bit of cloth and metal, transient fashion items, that can be worn by anybody and then be ditched like last season's Nike earrings.


Which is a slap in the face for all those who've gone before, many of whom gave their lives for our freedom.

I have a pair of wings I'm pretty proud of. I was one of nine who passed my Selection, out of 1200 applicants. I'm glad to say that Director, SF has not seen fit to cash in on the popularity of the Regt. and start selling T-shirts with the winged d@gger ;)

[airborne_artist]

Luckily I can get one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAS-Special-Air-Service-British-Army-Military-t-shirt_W0QQitemZ270193919637QQihZ017QQcategoryZ313QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :E

[davejb]

Don't that big yellow wingy thing make you a tad too visible old chap? Alright for infiltrating the 'Mrs Bin Laden Home for the Partially Sighted' perhaps, but I can't imagine Bodie wearing it....

[airborne_artist]

Unless they've got eyes in the back of their head, they'll never see me...:E

[goudie]

Someone from MOD RAF on a jolly to the States saw a store called 'Old Navy' selling casual gear and thought Hey!, let's sell casual gear for the 'New Air Force'!