Battersea fees up again (incl BHAB statement)

[scooter boy]

Is it just me being a tightwad or is £450 per landing rather a lot to charge for landing at Battersea? This is what the price will be from 1/4/07 according to the latest missive from Von Essen towers. The first hour's parking will be £250 upwards depending on type.

Apparently they need to keep movements down as they will exceed their annual quota of 12000 movements pa by the end of September if things continue as they have so far this year.

Also Mr Von Essen hotels has put the lease up so prices have had to take a hike. (Perhaps to fund the new Von Essen hotel next door?)

I landed there last week and paid the then £210 (plus parking and VAT (plus fuel, depreciation, taxi and other overheads - before somebody starts comparing the cost of 4 peak time rail fares)) for 4 of us to attend 2 separate meetings in our capital, however I will be choosing less extravagant means in the future.

Sorry Mr Von Essen, although I can afford your extortionate fees I will choose not to pay them in future. Just like I can afford to stay at your hotels but would far rather stay at a Travel Inn and spend the money I save on something more meaningful.

Now, where did I put the number for Breeze heliport?

SB

[Hughes500]

No dont think so. I landed there last week asked for a rotors running refuel as we had had a starting issue. Was told no ( did one the day before) by atc as refuelers wont do it - was then asked by refuelers why I had shut down ! Then held by reception to fill in a form. guess what machine wouldnt start ( banger box playing up ) At 28 mins after landing it fired up. Next day £ 60 bill for parking. Tried to complain by e mail - sent back by their spam filter. Boss now said whats the point. He nearly fell over when I told him prices were going up

[helicopter-redeye]

SB, just fly to Denham or other outer London airfield and get a limo or train from there.

h-r;)

[Paradism]

I landed there last week asked for a rotors running refuel as we had had a starting issue.

Funny that you are complaining about a £60 parking charge when you knew your aircraft was unserviceable. The costs could have been much higher if you had an uncommanded shutdown in flight and it took 28 minutes to restart your donk. I just hope it was a twin and not a single you were flying. What price your life?

[scooter boy]

"and get a limo"

H-R, for the £450 Battersea landing fee plus £250 minimum parking charge plus VAT I could get a stretch hummer limo complete with integral hot tub, bubbly on tap and some Eastern european laydeez to help pass the time and ease my stress during the journey to central London.

OR Perhaps a Maybach with a magnum of Veuve Cliquot chilled but not iced in the back with highspeed broadband and a satphone?

I think I'll settle for the train though - safer for a number of reasons (and cheaper).

Got the IR yet?

SB

[nigelh]

Paradism.... a helicopter not starting will usually have no relevance to safety and does not imply it is likely to stop in flight...:confused:
I hear Von Essen are doing a special deal for Robinson owners ...you can book 5 landings .....and on the 5th you just leave the machine behind as payment :ok: :ok:

[Paradism]

nigelh

I think the operative words in your post are "usually" and "does not imply it is likely to stop". However, I have been in aviation long enough to know that accidents arise from a chain of events and a very good starting point would be a failure of auto-relight, if installed, and an inability to restart manually in emergency.

[nigelh]

whatever ....:ok:

[Hughes500]

Nigel

Thanks for support there, no problem flying it, on occasion the banger box wont fire. New banger box on oder - done it twice in 97 starts. The point of my reply is to show how unreasonable the place has become and not to argue over an allison engine starting issue -Paradism. I too have been in aviation long enough to know when to fly and when not to thank you. Once the flame is going it is difficult to put it out. Ok there is a chance the autorelight wont work. But then again tell that to 206 pilots who dont have one !

[helicopter-redeye]

From Denham, by the time you have landed and then walked down to the station (and waited for the inevitably delayed Chiltern line train), you could almost be in Central London via the M/A 40 in a decent car (about £50) - which compares with parking at Batters.

1/2 way through - I've started to have nightmares about the 29 seconds from the OM to the MAPt at Stauning ...:eek:


h-r;)

[JimBall]

i've heard two major charter operators have now boycotted battersea.

Oh that'll be a clever move. There are so many heliports to choose from in London......let me see.....there's.........Battersea and .......Battersea.

[Camp Freddie]

personally I used to think that keeping battersea open was important,

lately though having not always had good experiences there, I think its too expensive, too small, too much hassle and not really in the right place, so wouldnt really be bothered if it gets shut down.

having said that I wish the new lot well trying to make it work.

CF

[Heliport]

Shame the floating barge on the Thames in the City didn't succeed.
Can't remember exactly when it was. Early 90s?

Anyone remember it? Or use it?

[BLEED-AIR]

The concept was excellent, operated on the 28 day rule. Originally conceived by George MH but the cost of defending the various court actions proved too expensive. At least he found a new site at the back of the power station. So not all was lost. :ok:

[nigelh]

I dont want all you owners with "small choppers" to get a complex but have you noticed that the price for the big boys has not gone up at all ......this is really just a great opportunity to get rid of common little poor people in small helicopters flown by themselves , often with poor knowledge of the procedures which then causes other problems with the locals etc You can see their point that if you can afford a proper helicopter you can probably afford a proper pilot. Personally i only go in there if somebody else is paying/ leasing the aircraft because in a single you can easily be held up by ATC and by the time you a snaked down the river it only saves 5 min or so compared to having a car waiting at Denham. It had to come ....simple economics !!

[JimBall]

nigelh: you're so wrong about small helis upsetting the neighbours. Suggest you read the Helicopter Noise document produced by GLA last year. The vast majority of noise complaints about Battersea come during Farnborough week - and (surprise, surprise) all Farnborough movements are exempt from Battersea's count due to grandfathering from the days of Westland....this makes it all hilarious. The management at Battersea justify their rates increases by saying they have to reduce movements due to cap - and then they let as many as possible move through during Farnborough at a time of year when all the neighbours have their windows open and are trying to enjoy the outside.

Then there's the question of a certain football club owner and his late night movements :yuk:

As far as I'm aware, Roman hasn't got a 22.

[Xavier Dosh]

I wasn’t surprised to hear that the fees at Battersea are going to be increased! I’m sure that none of us were surprised really.

What does annoy me is the lack of notice. A letter dated 21st March arrived yesterday, giving us a one week notice period. I don’t think it makes life easier for Charter Operators.

I don’t foresee a huge reduction in movements as a result of the new fees.

Why don’t we give the ‘Close from September’ option a go? Do you think they would close the heliport?

XD

[scooter boy]

"Do you think they would close the heliport?"

Depends whose counting the movements Xavier and whether they can count past 12000! :E

I am sure that a financial analysis will have been done demonstrating that the majority of Battersea income derives from big expensive helicopters (quite possibly carrying Russian oligarchs at ungodly hours of the night and earning lots of out-of-hours type extra fees) and that those of us with more humble choppers generate relatively miniscule amounts. When your ex-wife has just taken you for a billion then the issue of a piddly few thousand is neither here nor there really!

Nigelh, you are correct in that the fee structure is only a deterrent to those with smaller choppers and the big boys will not see much difference (they were paying through the nose already).

Shame to see it go so astronomically overpriced though, landing there was a buzz.

SB

[Francis Frogbound]

Wasn't the last enormous hike, less than six months ago explained away as an effort to cut down the number of movements?

Even the Grocer didn't shove the prices up like this when Harrods operated the place.

It just feels as though we are all helping to pay the development costs of the new hotel, or that there is an element of anti-competitiveness creeping in.

I have been told (rightly or wrongly) that Premiair are leasing the heliport from Von Essen. Love to know what those lease costs are. Also how much are Premiair paying in landing fees, lets face it Von H and Prem are all now one big happy familly.

Sadly I feel that too many complaints will play straight into the hands of Red Ken and his army of whingers, none of whom have a history as long as Battersea.

Bring back the barge or borrow one of the mothballed carriers from Mrs Windsors navy, stick it at Greenwich and we'll all go there.

Vanguard is ok, they just need to realise that you can't seriously get two public transport machines on there and their pad markings look misleading.

[BLEED-AIR]

Its a pity the current legistration in power could not feed a few million into developing decent helipads in London as opposed to wasting billions staging games for ten days which now one wants.

[JimBall]

British Helicopter Advisory Board :

CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP – THE LONDON HELIPORT


On 20 March, it was announced that the Von Essen Group had purchased PremiAir Aviation Group from Sir Robert McAlpine. At the same time, it was also revealed that von Essen had acquired the Weston Heliport (Battersea) and had awarded the contract to operate the heliport to PremiAir. The heliport will now be known as The London Heliport.

In a letter to their existing customers, the PremiAir Aviation Group announced a new pricing tariff and terms of business following a review of their existing and forecast traffic volumes. The new tariff becomes effective on 1 April 2007 and reflects the increased heliport leasing costs and the need to control the rapidly increasing traffic volumes if the heliport is not to reach its mandated movement cap and so face closure well before the end of the year.

The BHAB has received a number of complaints concerning the new pricing structure and has secured a meeting with PremiAir on 13 April where these and other access issues will be discussed with the heliport management. In the interim, the BHAB is in regular contact with PremiAir and has ensured that the new management is fully aware of the concerns of our members.

We will issue further reports in due course on a matter we quite understand to be of the utmost importance to our Members.

[ShyTorque]

The sooner there is an alternative landing place in London, the better. Both for price and availability of slots.

[Jed A1]

The floating heliport in London was at Trigg Lane and closed in 1985. I went there once but cannot remember too much about it. If I recall correctly it had four pads on top of the barge and you walked down into the barge for the reception area.

In 1991 a consortium put plans forward for another floating heliport at Cannon Street. These plans came to nothing

[JimBall]

New Battersea charges here (http://www.londonheliport.co.uk/)

Of particular interest is the £15m insurance requirement. How many carry that amount ?

And I've just discovered that a Heathrow landing is £130, a take-off £155.25 and the parking charge is £5.01 per 15 mins plus 8p per tonne.

So, for £450, you can land at Heathrow, park for 2 hours, and still leave with £100 in your pocket. (Co-incidentally, enough to buy you a Platinum Club sandwich at Von Essen's Cliveden Hotel....see below.)

Von Essen is, I think, German for "haven't a clue."

[cyclic_fondler]

The new charges did come out on April 1st and lets hope it's a joke!!!
Even if they have 12000 landings at £450 per landing , that's still £5.4m per year. The expenses on running a place like that can't be that much, can it ?
Dick Turpin was an amateur thief compared to these lot.

[JimBall]

Now it's getting obvious. The Von Essen business plan. The following comes from "The Caterer" magazine:

Von Essen launches world's most expensive sandwich

(16 March 2007 17:01)
Luxury hotel group Von Essen has launched what it claims is the world’s most expensive sandwich at the Cliveden House Hotel in Berkshire.
The Von Essen Platinum Club Sandwich is now on the menu at the Taplow property, with a price tag of £100.
The sandwich includes Iberico ham, which has been air cured for 30 months, poulet de Bresse, quail eggs, semi-dried Italian tomatoes, 24-hour fermented sour dough bread and £25 of white truffles.
It weighs in at 530 grams and packs 1,182 calories.

[dunnarunna]

Yes 450quid is pretty excessive but who is the biggest user of the heliport? Answer, PremiAir. So how is VonEssen going to financially favour them? Any reduction in their landing fees would make a serious dent in the heliports' and hence VonEssens' income.
Besides, I imagine monopoly rules would rule out any legal favouritism.
It is sad, but we have to accept the days of light aircraft and the day-tripper PPL at Battersea have probably gone.
The folk paying the highest price in all this are the operators of the 120's, 206's and 355's etc.:(

[pitot212]

It's good that the BHAB are arguing our corner but I really think the DTI should be involved.

It's blantanly obvious what's going on here. Why don't they just call it London's "PremiAir" Heliport!!!

[whatsarunway]

Count yourselvs lucky that you have somewhere to land guys!
It could be Dublin.
Guys would gladly pay these charges to land anywhere near the city!
Typicaly Irish,
As soon as the sun sets we cant take off or land anywhere bar an airport
and god forbid we land anywhere close to a city!
:ugh: :{

[MightyGem]

Of course, you could all book in for landing, then when in the hover say, "Sorry too expensive" and fly away. :E

That'll be me for the sack then. :(

[Helinut]

MG,
That one is sorted in the tightly worded conditions of use. If you do not tell them days before hand that you want to cancel, you pay anyway. :ugh:

Operators using the London Heliport had better revise their terms and conditions to make sure that when the pax cancel or delay without notice, that they will pay the charges involved.

[ShyTorque]

"Von Essen launches world's most expensive sandwich (16 March 2007 17:01). Luxury hotel group Von Essen has launched what it claims is the world’s most expensive sandwich at the Cliveden House Hotel in Berkshire.
The Von Essen Platinum Club Sandwich is now on the menu at the Taplow property, with a price tag of £100. The sandwich includes Iberico ham, which has been air cured for 30 months, poulet de Bresse, quail eggs, semi-dried Italian tomatoes, 24-hour fermented sour dough bread and £25 of white truffles. It weighs in at 530 grams and packs 1,182 calories."

So one of these is included in the new landing fee??

(Better than those boring chocolate orange or shortbread biscuits) :E

[scooter boy]

£100 for a sandwich at Profumo central - Sounds like a bargain!:rolleyes:

Do you think these overpriced sarnies will be on the menu in the new Battersea Von Essen hotel? Just think if we flew into Battersea and all 4 occupants had one then we might as well call it a nice round £1000 (including a tip of course).

London deserves a decent, reasonably priced heliport. If Battersea is to be allowed to charge these disproportionate and extortionate fees then an alternative site must be found.

It's Denham for me from now on,

SB

[FloaterNorthWest]

Well, we have voted with our feet.

The Boss has decided that £1100 for the privilege of leaving or arriving in London after 2100hrs is a bit steep.

May just be a certain shopkeeper and football club owner using it soon.

FNW

[DennisK]

Remember Trigg Lane barge all too well ... so ridiculously convenient for the City etc. Must have used it a hundred times in the 1980s. The below deck reception was adequate if a bit damp and smelly.

I'm sure more informed guys than me know the background, but can we ask Flying Lawyer what the rules are for a freeholder owning a parcel of river frontage land, that would affect the positioning of another floating barge, (moveable) Possibly approach the days of £100 for turbines and a lot less on a piston.

Are our government men happy to pay the new charges I have to ask? An how much will the military be paying?

Seems to me there must be some adverse effect on the London capital. I think New York has around seventeen pads!

Dennis K

[pitot212]

Hi Dennis, I remember that barge too, in fact I last saw the three helipad barge moored up near the Woolwich barrier some time only last year. I believe it was the Tower Hamlets council that put the kibosh on any further attempt at putting a floating helipad on the Thames due to noise.

So if Battersea’s excuse is being too busy then surely time’s now warrant a second helipad and Tower Hamlets may not win their argument ? We’ve spoke about this in the past, but how about replacing the HMS Belfast with the HMS Ark Royal? A fantastic museum plus an ideal helipad with hangarage!

[Helinut]

The landing fees during an election campaign can easily be paid for by giving out a few peerages - no problem really for that lot!

[JimBall]

As someone who lives v close to Von Essen International, I'd say that movements are well down - which is what they say they need to achieve.

The BHAB had a meeting with "da management" on April 13 and put out a statement to members afterwards. This included some defensive play by Von Essen - along the lines of a comparison chart with Heathrow. And an example of how it is now cheaper to park at Battersea than move off and come back in later. (Well - if you're in a 109 or a 76.)

But no offer to back pedal. They say that the cost of buying the place and the capital investment it needs, combined with the need to stay within movement limits means that rates had to go up. They claimed that Battersea hadn't made a profit for previous owners.

The skies are mighty quiet except for passing traffic.

[ShyTorque]

It's certainly not cheap to park overnight - even for the larger helis.

(Fees and Charges, Issue 1.0, April 2007)

Group 5 aircraft, includes:
A109, Bo-105/Bk117, Bell 222/230, Bell 430, Bell 212/412, EC145, Lynx.

E.g. Arrive 1300, day 1. Park overnight. Depart 1800, day 2.

£450 landing fee.
£900 parking up to 24 hrs.
£725 parking up to 8 hrs (more than 4 hrs, day 2).
Total = £2075.

Parking £1625 - a huge figure for a space under the windsock, which doesn't prevent the use of a spot. It doesn't take much working out that it is now FAR cheaper to park overnight at Fairoaks, Biggin, Elstree or Denham (or Heathrow!), including the second £450 landing fee incurred on return, plus about twenty five minutes DOCs into the equation.

As a comparison, costs for Heathrow for the same flight (A109) are as follows:

£285 Landing fee + departure charge (BAA).
£222 Compulsory handling.
£580 Parking (29 hrs @ £20/hour).
Total = £1087.

Other airfields are even cheaper..... :\

[Flingingwings]

I've also heard that the new owner is already suggesting that there will be FURTHER price increases once the redevelopments are finished :eek:
IMO prices aren't the only matter there that could do with some improvements :ugh: :ugh:

[Bravo73]

Those new cranes (for building the hotel) are also a little close for comfort when on finals to 03... :uhoh: :mad:

[verticalhold]

Bravo73;

I thought I'd come over a bit wussie. Glad it's not just me who thinks they might be a tad adjacent:eek:

[MB27]

Certainly the movements would appear much reduced over the last few weeks. The last two times I have passed by, no activity or parked helicopters.. at all..

Although.. I did see two Herrons taking advantage of the situation and completing a perfectly timed formation landing on the pad. One then seemed to be rather interested in the ad boards for the new buildings... Not sure if the new pricing scheme is applicable to Herrons.. :E

But on a more serious note, does the change of ownership have any effect on EHMS? They had previously carried a Western logo on the Explorer, but noticed it has now been removed. I hope they haven't been affected by it all.. :uhoh:

[AlanM]

HEMS still goes in to Battersea - so hopefully it is all very much "as you were" for them.

The police still go in for fuel occasionally - maybe they could call it a "diversion" in the loosest sense of the word!

[FloaterNorthWest]

Interesting development.

INTRODUCTION OF A RESTRICTED LANDING SLOT BOOKING SYSTEM AT THE LONDON HELIPORT (30-07-07)
Last year saw a significant increase in the number of helicopter movements at The London Heliport. Since the ownership change in February of this year, a primary objective has been to ensure that the Heliport stays within the annual movement limit of 12,000. We have been monitoring usage trends very closely and whereas there appeared to be a downward trend during May and June, it is now clear that this trend is not sufficient to bring the situation back on track before year end.

It is vitally important for all users that the Heliport stays open throughout the full year, but it is now absolutely clear that if we don’t introduce a movement control system in the very near future, this will not be the case. Regrettably, we have therefore taken the decision to introduce such a system forthwith.

From August 1st, a defined number of movement “slots” will be available each week, the specific number being determined by a combination of historical movement trends and the number of slots still remaining before the year end limit is reached.

The Heliport team will also manage the movements throughout each week in order to make sure the Heliport remains open for that entire week. This procedure will be modified on a day to day basis, particularly if slots are lost to inevitable weather related closures of the London Zone.

Operators can book slots direct with the Heliport team in the normal way and slots will be allocated on a “first come first served” basis. To stop speculative booking of slots, operators will be charged for bookings made but then not used, unless the operator can clearly demonstrate that adverse weather has caused their flight to be cancelled.

We’d also like to take this opportunity to thank operators who have increasingly chosen to park at the Heliport rather than positioning away and then returning later to pick up passengers. This is the single most important thing individual operators can do to make sure The London Heliport movement limit is fully utilised to the maximum benefit of all. With this in mind, to further encourage and accommodate parking, the Heliport has just taken delivery of a ground handling trolley suitable for most types of skidded aircraft and to further incentivise operators to park-up and wait, we will also be reducing Advanced Reserve Parking charges by 15% from August 1st. A new charges tariff is available for download on the new London Heliport website (www.londonheliport.co.uk).

I am sure you will understand the reasons for this most unfortunate situation and the inevitability of having to say “no” to booking requests whenever movements are running ahead of the required rate. This is certainly a process we would prefer not to have to enforce and we deeply regret any inconvenience it will cause. In this respect, please can I ask all of you to be fully supportive of The London Heliport staff, who will be responsible for handling slot booking requests.

Please rest assured that The London Heliport will do everything we reasonably can to accommodate your requirements and if you have any queries concerning the above process, please don’t hesitate to contact me and I will do my best to assist.

[scooter boy]

I got the letter from the Heliport yesterday detailing the above.
Although I have some sympathy with their situation surely the way forward here is to increase the number of slots available and reduce the parking charges rather than stick with the 12000 slot allocation and charge everybody a huge fee?:confused:

On the handful of occasions I have used the heliport in the past I have parked there (rather than reposition) as I am almost always single-pilot thus inadvertently limiting my movements.

Hopefully a change of mayor in London will permit market forces to prevail here and permit expansion and progress allowing us to move away from the current (severely limited slot) situation which only serves to provide justification for the recent outrageous price increases.

SB

PS (If I am nominated for mayor would you vote for me? - I would permit at least 20 helipads within central London and encourage their use :ok:)

[JimBall]

Operators can book slots direct with the Heliport team in the normal way and slots will be allocated on a “first come first served” basis. To stop speculative booking of slots, operators will be charged for bookings made but then not used, unless the operator can clearly demonstrate that adverse weather has caused their flight to be cancelled.

Right. So will all these new rules also apply to Von Essen/Premi Air operations ? Or have they now found another way to squeeze other operators out of the London market ?

[Sliding Doors]

Seen the same letter.

Parking would at times make sense. In the past I've found parking was never a popular request (maybe thats just my experiences though) :{

If slot allocation is the main motivation, I agree why not make the parking cheaper? Although of course they don't want everybody to park :ugh:

My main fear is that requests for 'platform drops' seem to be on the increase, and there are times when this isn't a viable option :{

If a couple of aircraft are allowed to park for protracted periods I can see more platform drops or holding if you need to come inboard :eek:

Personally I have no objection to platform drops at times BUT I do feel if the platform is the only option available (despite booking and being on time) that platform drops should attract a lower landing fee. Reckon I/we stand two 'hopes' of seeing that :(

[wokkaboy]

It's always baffled me why helis aren't allowed to use City Airport...

[Francis Frogbound]

It's well worth keeping a very close watch on your take off and landing times. Twice recently I was stuck on the ground for a few minutes over the fifteen allowed due to non-release from radar and congestion on the pad and got charged for parking. Battersea knocked the parking off when asked (thank you guys) but we only picked up on it due to a stringent invoice check we were carrying out. The charge it appears is automatic due to the computerised system there so Simon and the girls don't know if we have been charged erroniously.

Still prefer Battersea to the turbulence around Vanguard though.

[Bravo73]

surely the way forward here is to increase the number of slots available and reduce the parking charges rather than stick with the 12000 slot allocation and charge everybody a huge fee?:confused:


SB,

Increasing the number of slots would, of course, be the ideal situation for us (ie the helicopter community.) Slightly less so for the locals and their nimby mates though.

My understanding is that the movements limit is a condition of the original planning permission. This number is probably so embedded in grandfather rights that they dare not renegotiate with the council. In the current climate, is Red Ken more likely to increase or decrease the number of movements? Exactly.

So the 12k-ish limit stays and we've got to find ways to work around it.

[JimBall]

City can't be used because the original planning for the airport prohibited helicopters. Mind you, it also prohibited jets.......someone found a way round that otherwise the place would have closed ages ago.

The 12,000 at Battersea is indeed embedded in original permissions. That same permission excludes certain types of flight from the 12,000 - including all flights to and from Farnborough during Air Show times. A throwback to Westland ownership. Doubt whether Von Essen would want to lose that lucrative business by trading the exemption for more normal slots.

[AlanM]

The 12,000 at Battersea is indeed embedded in original permissions. That same permission excludes certain types of flight from the 12,000 - including all flights to and from Farnborough during Air Show times.

Does that apply to Royal Ascot and Silverstone then?

[JimBall]

No Alan. It dates from the days when we had an aviation industry making aircraft and selling them worldwide.

I landed at the old Supermarine airfield nr Southampton recently. Birthplace of the Spit etc. The local council at Hamble are struggling to stop developers building on the old site. So I doubled what they asked for a landing fee and asked them to put it in the fighting kitty.

[Hilico]

City can't be used because the original planning for the airport prohibited helicopters. Mind you, it also prohibited jets.......someone found a way round that otherwise the place would have closed ages ago.

Yes Jim, the change was that the chap who owned LCY bought a jet and needed somewhere to put it. We just need to persuade him to buy a helicopter.

[Brilliant Stuff]

I thought I read somewhere that city are working on gaining permission to allow helicopter in for drop off?

[AlanM]

Let's hope so BS - heli's are the easiest thing in the world to work from a controller's perspective!

Long since overdue, an alt landing site for London.

[JimBall]

What City are saying is that they will look at finding a site near to City that they will manage.

Now - that nice strip laid down for the Red Bull Air Race. It's on a great piece of land.

[AlanM]

Mmmmmm
http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/83100166.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/83100174.jpg
A few wires and obstructions though....
http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/83100199.jpg

It is also too close to the LCY runway to be independent in terms of vortex wake.

Not sure LCY management would jeopardise their obvious need/want to increase opening hours at weekends and movement rates to set up a helipad. But you never know.......!

The O2 Dome must have enough space for a helipad?

[SteelCity]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/SteelCity185/MillenniumDome.jpg

There is an H marked .....

[Helinut]

The Dome used to have a pad which was used a fair bit when politicians and similar were interested in it. It was located on the north edge of the site right next to the Thames, which is pretty wide at that point. Might be regarded as a bit adjacent to City traffic these days - but it seems to be no longer in use.

[JimBall]

Have used both Dome and Vanguard. Neither suitable for single-engine CAT. Pretty certain that the Dome site would never get licensed.

Have also used that piece of land where the Air Race wonderboys kept their kit. Very nice - and handy for the DLR.

Whilst "hanging around" above the flood barrier one day counted at least 6 suitable sites - but no doubt all earmarked for residential £££££££££££££££££££.

[thwock]

Dropped the £100 supplement for Ascot,Silverstone etc
But put the price up by £100 for every landing.

[bizpilot]

22.2% increase in landing fees and the re-introduction of the slot system.

A very special place.

[DennisK]

Yes lads ... its now got a new name and will very soon have a really upmarket image to go with it.

The PremiAir brief last week was more than interesting and various reports will appear in the aviation press shortly. www.loop.aero for one. The adjacent hotel and new terminal plans are exciting.

BUT ... and its always a big but. What do you do with a valuable asset ... one which you are prepared to develop with massive lumps of cash injection - when you are nailed by the planners to 6000 landings per year.

You can only divide the operating cost by that number and as a minimum, that has to be the landing fee, even with a slot system.

Don't shoot the messenger.

DRK

[Helinut]

That should get you at least one slot, Dennis :E

[bizpilot]

6000 landings @ £550 = £3.3million. Operating cost?

Plus the 30p a litre they are making on Jet A1.

Unless half your movements aren't paid for as Company aircraft :ok:

[DennisK]

We pilot's don't make very good accountants.

£3million operating costs quoted?

Value of the land ... say £10 to £20 million.

Von Essen's quoted development investment. £50 million.

Plus Council tax, business outgoings, Insurance,
legal, Staff and the inevitable obligatory hangers
on. Not forgetting uncle Tom Cobbley

Say an outlay of £65million.

Interest alone tops the quoted £3 million!!!!

My guess is that only the hotel will make a worthwhile profit.

DRK

[JimBall]

Battersea's days as a heliport are numbered. Probably quite a large number - around 730 to perhaps 1000.

And then the new hotel will get an extension.

I doubt very much if Battersea will get as far as 2012.

[Helinut]

That is my view too JB.
The pressure to make REAL money is just too great. The Von Essen Empire is a "good times" company. When times get hard the temptation to build a new wing to the hotel or sell the space for yet another block of flats will be too great. No one important will notice until the next election, and then it will be too late.

[ShyTorque]

No one important will notice until the next election, and then it will be too late.

"The important ones" will probably notice when they want to do the rounds of the marginal seats prior to their next election, namely when they suddenly realise there is no heliport from which they can fly out and into London.... unlike today's important ones :oh:

[bizpilot]

Dennis,

So what you are saying is that we aviators are subsidising the hotel? And not paying for the excellent service provided for by the heliport. Think that is wrong is anyone books.

If you look at the movements over the last few years they haven't exceeded the 12,000 without a slot system or a huge hike in prices to drive the smaller operators/owners out, it has been self levelling. Are all the allocated slots used everyday? I know not. Are unused slots carried over to the next day/week/month to up movements? I know not. Movements should be monitored on a monthly basis and if they are getting close to the limit then some restriction put on it.

The type of people using Battersea don't plan weeks in advance, they want to move at short notice and the pressure is put on the ops dept/pilots to get slots or inform sometimes unforgiving principals the bad news. And there is enough pressure in this line of work already.

I agree with most people and think that the management are trying to drive people away from using Battersea, they can close it and make a huge profit from the sale of the land.

Only time will tell. Hopefully I will be around to say I told you so.

Biz