F/O upgrades at Vietnam Airlines

[che ci dò che ci dò!]

Hi everybody!
I've heard of expat first officers' upgrades in Vietnam Airlines, any truth in this? sounds strange to me! :hmm:

[Dream Land]

Yes, most unusual for contractors to be upgraded, five pilots were upgraded, they were all responsible for training fees and a bond. :D

[che ci dò che ci dò!]

..so they're not doing it on an ongoing basis?

[Dream Land]

I am not entirely sure why they do things here when they do it, it just doesn't work like that here, all I know is that in a meeting they had a while back, they announced that anyone could upgrade (given the qualifications) or change fleets for a price.

[che ci dò che ci dò!]

..so there're no downright chanches to be upgraded sooner or later for a first officer joining now?
thanks for the infos

[Dream Land]

There is no implied or otherwise guaranty like at Tiger Airways in Singapore, I would advise you to contact PARC Aviation or Rishworth Aviation about any details from VAC management.

[hevlad]

Hi!
Yes ,it's true. The only thing ,that you should pay a lot of money. That's why only 4 of 12 accepted the upgrade.
You will pay $24000 for training, plus $30000 bond for 3 years. The first month ( ground school and sim) you stay without salary at all,loosing $6500. After Line Check you will have your salary reduced for $1000 during first ten months.
Now you can count ,how much does it cost.
:} :}

[pilot3201]

to akistar
all of them from A320 . As the price to high,only 4 pilots accepted that conditions.

[che ci dò che ci dò!]

so...can anyone join the company now and get a lh seat by paying that crazy amount of money?!? sounds very strange! do they want the money in advance? so that if you fail you remain on the rh seat and moneyless?!? good business for the company, isn't it? :hmm:
thanks everybody for the infos

[TANUA]

:ugh:
For the first time in their history, Vietnam Airlines, allowed expatriate F/O's to apply for an upgrade some months back. I believe 17 applied and 15 were made an offer, of which, 5 commenced the training.
One of the five pulled out after about a month and is still flying as an F/O. One checked out as a Captain a month ago and two others are close to completing their training.
In this industry, one has to compare "apples with apples" and some of the posts above are quite biased. Will Vietnam Airlines continue to offer upgrades-who knows?
Is it a fair deal? Nothing is fair in modern aviation but you have to consider the overall package.
If two people fly with Vietnam Airlines for three years-in theory. One stays as a F/O and the other accepts an upgrade then the one that accepts the upgrade will:
Make approximately $30,000 US more than the one that stays an F/O. Should achieve around 1500 PIC time and lose no bond. Of course if you leave one day early on the bond period then you lose the $30,000! The $24,000 training cost is paid from your income and could probably be negotiated with the relevant agency ?
cheers :ok:

[Dream Land]

As usual, pilots are their own worst enemies, had expat F/O's not volunteered to BUY their rating, what would management have to do. Now that they know people are ready and willing to buy their way in, they are trying to avoid hiring new captains, instead looking for FO's with upgrade "potential" (along with $30K USD in their pocket), go figure. :ugh:

[ia1166]

Actually it's a pretty good deal for the contract world.
Firstly i would never hang my hat on a guaranteed command upgrade as a basis for being employed as an f/o.
Secondly, it didn't cost anything for the guys here really. The fos who turned it down could'nt provide a bank guarantee for the bond. Or were poorly advised.
The fos who took it up had to use leave or be unpaid for the course of 4 weeks.(we get 3 months paid leave here in veitnam, twice the normal airline allowance) Then pay for the line training out of their command pay which meant them working for fo salary after their line check for about 10 months. And stump up a 30K bond for 3 years. Any westerner can take a leverage against his house for this for a small charge.
So apart from working for fo salary for 10 months for a guaranteed command. Whats the cost? not a lot. and certainly better than a promise of command from tiger/jet star or any of that lot.
Incidently the new captain salary is 11000 US i hear. with 3 months paid leave. Not so bad really.

[ia1166]

And actually the whole exercise has been to give the many excellent fos here a chance at command. It's never been about people buying their way into Vietnam Airlines. If you were to join you'd go to the bottom of the list, just like everyone else.
And as a side line, after 12 years in the RAF as a helicopter pilot before spending 4 years on hercs, I bought my A320 type rating to get a job. Hope you're not infering that i'm in any way inferior to you.

[Fragglerock]

Hello,

Does Vietnam Airlines hire DEC Captains? If so, what are the requirements? Salary? Thanks.

Rock

[Dream Land]

Yes they do for the A320 and ATR, for small bus I believe the requirments are 500 on type, 1500 PIC jet. Schedule is six weeks on and two weeks off, free flight on system for rotation, pay around 11K USD.

[rsajlk]

Greetings DL,

Just to confirm $11K. Last I checked it was 9.8K sometime last year. Have they (rishworth) raised the salary? If so, its time to reconsider. Thanks for the info and regards..

[Dream Land]

It was 8.8 (small bus), now in the negotiating process, 11 is my guess, only speculation at this point.
D.L.

[rsajlk]

Ok, thanks good buddy. Safe flights to y'all...