F111 Torch display

[4Greens]

Am ok with the theory and practice of afterburning but how does the F111 do its 'torch display'? Seen at the Avalon airshow recently.

Sorry if this had been done before but a search didn't reveal anything

[Hempy]

Known as the "dump and burn", thats exactly what it is, the fuel dump outlet vent is between the engines. When the fuel is dumped, the heat from the exhaust ignites it. Not recommended in a min. fuel situation....

http://www.f-111.net/images/dumpburn2.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/h3mpy/f111tail-1.jpg

[boswell bear]

As a kid at a display at Finningley I remember the woman stood next to me screaming thinking the A/C was exploding :cool:

[UpShutter]

That'll be this one:-
Finningley 1977 (http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/2007/425finn77/fin77.htm)

[MadsDad]

At RIAT, having watched a couple of MIGs converting themselves into ploughs, dustpans and brushes done their bit to clear up the place, display restarts.

One of the first aircraft showing it's stuff is the RAAF F111, comes in for a fast pass and bursts into flames. Thinks 'Bloody Hell, not again'.

(I know what the woman next to you was thinking, Boswell).

[Green Flash]

UpShut

I was there! You could feel the heat too! The future Mrs Flash had a dickey fit, along with half the crowd :eek: . Bl**dy impressive, mind.:ok:

[L J R]

Used to be good trick over the O's Mess in Butterworth during the afternoon raid when the RMAF AAA would try to shoot transonic Pig, only to see said Pig disappear to the west below tree-top level at high speed in a blurr of speed (Dumping and burning) - Speed limit on fuel dump you ask....?. Malaysian AAA commander ordering his battery to cease fire thinking he has ordered his lads to shoot with LIVE rounds.....Followed about two minutes later by 79SQNs Mirages in hot pursuit into the setting sun north of Penang - warp factor lots (for a short while anyway). Don't worry - the Mirages would return a few minutes later (Bingo of course)- Followed a half hour later by the four ship of Pigs.....Then we could all return to the Bar.

[West Coast]

Will the -111 torch in mil power alone or does it take a certain zone of AB/reheat? I would think burner would be required (which is observed in the photo) but stand to be corrected.

[Hempy]

airspeed < 350 kts, reheat on (zone 5)

[TheSmiter]

Bl@@dy hell, BB and GF that was some awesome display! I can still remember the heat and noise as it went over, wondering if I was about to witness my first airshow crash. How the hell did Fred Mulley (SoS Def) manage to sleep thru it?

Thanks for the link Upshut; reignited old memories. I was a member of the Gatehouse kindergarten 2 years later, but thats another thread :)

Current members of the Armed Forces should look at those pics, see what we could muster then .......... and weep.

Five Nimrods in the sky at one time? :mad:

[boswell bear]

That'll be this one:-
Finningley 1977


Thats the one :cool:

[L J R]

A certain lad was invited to do a Dump & Burn at the celebration of a new airport opening a while ago (Alice Springs I seem to recall). He was a little early (or a bit fast - I can't recall), so just prior to his arrival so he elected to use min burner instead of max AB as he approached the overhead. Result, fuel dump (LOTS) and no flame to burn it - bummer. Worse was the fact that whilst flying at 250' along the New Runway the fuel did not vapourise and most of it (a ton or two?) settled onto the new tarmac. Airport manager not impressed. Runway Resurfacing took a while too.

[Green Flash]

Smiter

Ah, yes, 5 Kipper Bombers in the same FIR!









I will now retire to a small cupboard under the stairs, and weep uncontrollably ..... :{

[airsound]

Bl@@dy hell, BB and GF that was some awesome display! I can still remember the heat and noise as it went over, wondering if I was about to witness my first airshow crash. How the hell did Fred Mulley (SoS Def) manage to sleep thru it?

I was serving at HQSTC then, and for some strange reason I was selected to be the commentator for the Review, and hence for the display the next day as well. The F-111 didn't display until the next day - so Fred M didn't have to sleep through it.

There was some (unbroadcast) film footage of him, sitting between HMTQ and the Duke of Edinburgh. As his chin drops lower, HMTQ's eyebrow rises
imperceptibly, and the Duke gives him a nudge, whereupon his elbow falls off the armrest and he awakes with a look of some aghastitude (well you would wouldn't you....)

My subsequent 1369 (remember those? - annual conf report) said "This officer puts the Secretary of State for Defence to sleep in the middle of a noisy flying display" Well, that's my story anyway.

And no, I didn't get a Jubilee Medal.

As for the Dump n Burn on the Sunday - it was indeed totally awesome, and I seem to remember that the plt, a RAAF Wg Cdr, got into deep doodoo over it. Anyone any more details?

airsound

[SoundByDesign]

"Used to be good trick over the O's Mess in Butterworth during the afternoon raid when the RMAF AAA would try to shoot transonic Pig, only to see said Pig disappear to the west below tree-top level at high speed in a blurr of speed (Dumping and burning) - Speed limit on fuel dump you ask....?. Malaysian AAA commander ordering his battery to cease fire thinking he has ordered his lads to shoot with LIVE rounds.....Followed about two minutes later by 79SQNs Mirages in hot pursuit into the setting sun north of Penang - warp factor lots (for a short while anyway). Don't worry - the Mirages would return a few minutes later (Bingo of course)- Followed a half hour later by the four ship of Pigs.....Then we could all return to the Bar."
heh heh heh heh............would some one please stop my sides splitting!
The Pig was great at Avalon [especially the dump and burn at night] but the 40 ton Italian zero G aerobat stole the show for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfrXLgx0E0g
Any one got any footage of the barrell roll?
G ..

[Wycombe]

....or of the G222 doing the same thing for many years at RIAT.

On the subject of transports doing silly things, the looping Ukrainian AN72 at RIAT would be good aswell.

Back to the "dump & burn", I witnessed it once, at one of the Boscombe Shows. Said the commentator, "and now, central heating, courtesy of the Royal Australian Air Force" :ok:

[r supwoods]

I saw the SR71 a couple of times at Mildenhall in the 90's when the burners were lit, the overfuel caused a nice (and expensive) plume out the back. Very impressive and somewhat noisy:)

[SoundByDesign]

"....or of the G222 doing the same thing for many years at RIAT."
Please accept my apology Wycombe, did not intend to p155 on your Dump & Burn!
And i'd love to see any footage of either mentioned aircraft over the barrel?
G ..
is the G222 Italian?

[Wycombe]

Yes, it's the a/c upon which the C27 is based. The C27 is actually a G222 updated with 2 of the engines from the C130J and a glass cockpit (put simply!)

[SoundByDesign]

Thanks for that Wycombe, I had a good look at the Glass just before we exited the tail at FL 500 over Avalon last Friday night. Just glad he [Salute] kept her straight and level with the full payload!

The 222 must've been a great ship too.

G ..

[Hempy]

C-27 Barrel Roll (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6NARLDVU0)

saw it at Avalon, very impressive :ok:

[antipodean alligator]

Talking of Avalon....At the Concours d'Elegance awards bash on the Saturday, Brig Gen Yeager mentioned that he did the first dump & burn (one of a long list of firsts!!) in an early Pig prototype.....He reckoned that they had a much bigger dump mast on the early ones and that the flame was 100+ feet long - NICE!

[SoundByDesign]

Did'nt the General also mention he delivered the first Pig downunder?

[antipodean alligator]

I don't remember hearing him say that....and I know he didn't!

[evilroy]

That's because he didn't. The first crews were:
A8-125 GPCAPT Jake Newham (pilot) WGCDR T.C. Owen (Nav)
A8-126 WGCDR Ray Funnell (Pilot) SQNLDR N. Pollock (Nav)
A8-127 SQNLDR Ian Westmore (Pilot) FLTLT J.A. Bushell (Nav)
A8-128 SQNLDR John Emery (Pilot) FLTLT Ross Hardcastle (Nav)
A8-129 SQNLDR W.F. Walters (Pilot) FLGOFF P.J. McDonald (Nav)
A8-130 FLTLT R.T. Sivyer (Pilot) FLTLT P.W. Growder (Nav)

[Red Snow]

Regarding the dump and burn, what's the longest time it's been held for? I saw an Avalon Friday night show a few years back and it lasted for about 90 seconds.

Great by day, but truly mad at night.

[SoundByDesign]

"That's because he didn't. The first crews were:
A8-125 GPCAPT Jake Newham (pilot) WGCDR T.C. Owen (Nav)
A8-126 WGCDR Ray Funnell (Pilot) SQNLDR N. Pollock (Nav)
A8-127 SQNLDR Ian Westmore (Pilot) FLTLT J.A. Bushell (Nav)
A8-128 SQNLDR John Emery (Pilot) FLTLT Ross Hardcastle (Nav)
A8-129 SQNLDR W.F. Walters (Pilot) FLGOFF P.J. McDonald (Nav)
A8-130 FLTLT R.T. Sivyer (Pilot) FLTLT P.W. Growder (Nav)"

Thanks EvilRoy, must have been pretty busy onboard that ferry flight?