No More Free Food!!

[ConingsbyFlyingClub]

Another nail in the coffin...When you go on a course or det in the UK you'll have to pay for your food.....

"With effect from 1 July 2007 - The current entitlement to free meals at public expense for up to 30 days for Service personnel on Detached Duty/Temporary Assignments who do not normally incur a Daily Food Charge (Unaccompanied Food Charge (UFC) and SFC) at their permanent duty station will be removed. This will also apply from 1 July 2007 for those already on Detached Duty/Temporary Assignments. Personnel will be required to pay for the meals they take in a PAYD unit. In a non-PAYD unit the Daily Food Charge (SFC or UFC) will be levied direct from pay for those classed as ‘living in’ i.e. provided with Single Living Accommodation for the duration of Temporary Assignment; all other personnel will pay the appropriate ECMC for any meals taken"

What next???

[FFP]

Paying for food ?

Seems reasonable to me....;)

[Sospan]

CFC, where did you get that extract from ?

[Ginseng]

You've done it now. The black Omega will be outside the door any minute!

Ginseng

[speeddial]

I hope the Rock living in his basha can get a refund on his biscuit browns because they're not fit for purpose?

[Talking Radalt]

What next???
Paying for it when you're at home perhaps? :hmm:
Eating is not a function of being at work, so why should they pay? If you weren't on a course what then? Starve?
As a singley liver-outerer type, I've never understood the whole bean-stealing mentality.

[toddbabe]

Radalt the point is the course that you are on at the detached unit is for the services benefit, the service has sent you on the course and just as it pays for your travel and accomodation at a hotel if no service accom is available it should also pay for your food.
Imagine a young LAC married with three children in the run up to xmas or the month after xmas ( even worse ) his missus has spent all the months remaining money on food, his cupboards are full, he then gets sent on a two week course short notice cos someone else pulls out! he is then expected to pay for his food through no choice of his own!!
If you are happy with the erosion of morale sapping rules like this then good luck to you but the rest of us aren't.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

If food charges for detached duty were incurred after 1 Jul would they be claimable on JPA at night/day subsistence rates?

:cool:

TOG

[Almost_done]

Will we start to see, 'sorry Boss I can't go on that Det/Training cse, because I can't afford it'.
:ugh:
Yet another perk gone. Well done to the beancounters :D .

[mole man]

What about the Aircrew they get free food at work (when flying).:E

[WPH]

I think Ginseng is alluding to the fact that if this info were to be contained within a DIN, for example, it would have the restriction (Not to be communicated to anyone outside HM Service without authority)!

I wonder why anybody would issue such a caveat?

[3 bladed beast]

Lets not feed aircrew when flying either, yes, that'll save a few pennies....

But lets not worry too much about having to pay for food on courses because after all we can take it out of our super pay rise....

[formertonkaplum]

Will we now have to pay for food, as per some Budget airlines, when we are flying on Service AT (Assuming its ever available)?

[BEagle]

It is surely reasonable for someone to be given the delta cost between the cost of feeding him/herself at home and the cost of obtaining it at a Service Mess or commercial source when detached. But free? Definitely on Ops - but during courses in the UK? Hmmm......

If I recall correctly, the reason we didn't get charged for food at RAF Mount Pleasant was because we worked 6 days a week. Although the number of pongo Landrovers parked outside the Officers Mess on Saturday morning when I used to go to work would seem to indicate that not everyone actually did work 6 days out of 7. But it was good to do a nice low overshoot on the short RW over the Officers Mess to wake up the hungover brown jobs! The mighty Vickers WhisperJet is quite good at doing that!

As for whingeing beanstealers, try putting yourselves in the position of the living-out singly who has to throw out all the perishable food items whenever he/she is subject to short-notice detachment.....

[The Maintainer]

Toxteth

I have been claiming any charges I have had to pay in Messes since 1 Apr, 'cos I can't find anything in the JSP that tells me I can't. If I'm allowed to claim actuals for food and accommodation when not staying in a Mess, I don't see why it should be any different when I do!!:ok:

[South Bound]

And that, my spanner-wielding friend, is fraud.

See you at your Court Martial and we will see if your defence line 'well it doesn't say I couldn't do it' holds up.

Not worth it fella...

[DownloadDog]

PVR.

Whilst on resettlement the MOD will pay for your food AND accomodation...

[Kitbag]

I hope you read the maintenance books better than you do the allowances manual:
'Subsistence is defined as prepared food, drink, necessary personal expenditure and temporary accommodation expenses incurred when travelling on duty.'
Straight from Chap 3 Sect 1. If you are living in the mess as your Residence at Work you can't claim and, to be honest, you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

[South Bound]

Still I suppose food and accommodation is still free at Colchester...

[Ginseng]

Thereagain, perhaps what Maintainer meant was that when travelling on duty, he stops at Service PAYD units for his meals and reclaims the actual costs, within capped DS limits. One interpretation of the JSP would be that, since he was not provided with Service accomodation (because he did not need it), and no "Service food" was "provided" (because he had to pay for it himself), the claim would appear to qualify. I can't see anything specific that would disqualify it either, but I haven't put the question to an expert.

So, don't be quite so quick to throw t6he word "fraud" around. It has nasty, and sometimes incorrect, connotations.

Regards

Ginseng

[vecvechookattack]

What free food do aircrew get when flying? You may find a packet of OOD NAAFI biscuits in the draw if yer lucky but there aint no free food for aircrew

[wokawoka]

Fellas, what about when you go on duty to another mess and you have to pay for the room (irrelevant of the price i know it s pennies.). Eventhough you are paying for your own room or quarter at home? Do you know any other company (we are a plc after all) who asks its employees to pay for their hotel room whilst on duty??

[South Bound]

Presumably it is only one step further to take away the duty meal while travelling. Same logic applies - you would have to take a packed lunch to work, take one when you travel....

[vecvechookattack]

Where do you have to pay for accommodation when on duty? errrrr...No where

[wokawoka]

Vecvechook, go on a course let's say to Henlow or Cranwell or whatever.
Don t you have a mess bill to pay in the morning? Yes you do even on duty. Do you not pay a mess bill at home already? Did you read the papers at your home base that day? Thought not....:ugh: Stupid system.

[Talking Radalt]

So.....
Let's get this straight. If I'm at my home unit and go to the Mess for lunch I'd be expected to pay, yet if I were on a course at say, Cranwell, the same lunch'd be free? Sorry, but I still don't see how displacing myself by a distance of X miles entitles me to free food.
Or is it on the grounds "there's no alternative when on a residential course"?
Friend of mine works for a very large, very well known blue chip IT corporation.
Their profits are measured in billions and they are generally regarded as an industry leader when it comes to staff perks.
And he still has to pay for all his own meals wherever he happens to be at the time. The time I visited his office he even had to buy my coffee.

[Could be the last?]

With regards to inflights:

I have been informed by my OC Cat Flt (At some secret base between Oxford and Henley) that the rules have/are changing.

Part of the conversation went like,
" Well, if you live in quarters and you know you are going away tasking for the day, then you will have to bring your own pack up!"

I cant see the curry munchers at ISK or Waddo pitching up with their own grub somehow. Don't do it..........:=

Can those who work for the Real Air Force confirm that their rules are changing? No I didn't think so!

[blogger]

So I live off base in my own home. the RAF sends me away on a course and makes me live in the mess I now have to pay for the food.

Well I don't want to pay for mess food I shall go else where to eat how can the RAF force me to pay for their food ?

I don't think they can.

RAF messes the sooner they are scrapped the better.

[Hueymeister]

What about us bean stealers? Heard a nasty rumour that we'd have to start paying the food and accom when we choose to leave our families settled, in good schools, in nice areas and choose not take a lovely DHE quarter.:ugh: :* :}

[Could be the last?]

Huey,

That would be very bad.......:=

[ericferret]

Surely the bottom line is that no one should be disadvantaged if they are working away.

Examples would be,

Single bloke living in already pays for his food so if working away food should be provided or he should be able to claim for cost.

Married bloke living out, wife can put a meal on the table for around £2.50 a head and probably a lot less. Therefore anything over this he should be compensated for.

Nobody should expect to profit from the system, but they should not loose out either.

My employer currently provides bed and breakfast if overnighting, £4 for lunch, £18 without receipt or reasonable amount above this receipted for evening meal including a glass of wine or beer.

This is not regarded as generous. It was interesting that we had to fight for the £18 as the company would have preferred to pay possibly higher amounts receipted. The reason being they didn't want people living on fish and chips in order to pocket the balance. They felt that eating correctly and healthily was an issue.

[ZH875]

What free food do aircrew get when flying? You may find a packet of OOD NAAFI biscuits in the draw if yer lucky but there aint no free food for aircrew

Vecetcetcetcetc try being a proper growbag on a nice large dirty trash hauler, lots of free food. Read other posts such as:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3195334#post3195334
Post No 16 which states:
in order to pick up some role equipment (P-Strops etc) and some ovens from recently decommisioned old K-Models.

Why would the K have an oven if no food. Even the J Herc has a microwave (it needed a microwave cos it flies faster than a K, and the crews would have gone hungry if they had to wait for a conventional oven to cook the FREE food:) )

The Herc has plenty of food on board, ask the liney's how many bags of food they take off the Herc on the AF servicings.

Rumour has it that Vecetcetcetc once AGREED with someone, he was charged, but was let off because it was his first offence.:O

[MadAxeMan]

Just another example of how the ‘powers that be’ are eroding the meagre benefits of being in the Service. Saving pennies, but probably costing a whole heap more to administer (like capped actual imprests), pi$$es off the very expensive (to train) Serviceman, who leaves and has to be replaced. If it is such a good idea, why don't the Airlines do it that way: Civilian Best Practice? Or is this part of the plan to get down to the ridiculously low manning levels.:suspect:

The argument about in-flight catering has been made before, and the Flight Safety organisation has a very clear view, so the bean counters will have to think again.

Come on MoD, get a grip, and play the long game for once.

[Sloppy Link]

It'll be the over 37 package next, mark my words along with commercial rates for both SMQ and Mess Accom. Every year, something else is taken away. Any one know of something we have been given recently? Increase in LSAP? Increase in MMA @ PCR? IT that is actually connected to JPA? Rant potential rising, signing off.

[vecvechookattack]

Firstly klunk, a mess bill is not for accomodation. As for flying in a Herc....rather not winger...rather not.

[MadAxeMan]

Vec,

You won't be dissing the Herc when it comes to ATPL time.:{

[vecvechookattack]

Dead right I won't........






.........(whats an ATPL ?)

[Barely Restrained]

I have it on good authority that a new house purchase incentive will be introduced for first-time buyers by the end of the year, but that in order to offset the cost of it, the Treasury are insisting that those that take it will have to pay commercial rates if living in the Mess, away from their house. This will eventually be extended to all bean-stealers. At least it might justify accommodating senior ranking beanies in suites (to keep their 5 light blue shirts and couple of sets of civvies in) while genuine junior ranker livers-in make do with a pokey room to keep their entire lives in!! :}

[BEagle]

"As for flying in a Herc....rather not winger...rather not."

I'm sure all Hercules crews will be gald to learn that!

As for senior beanstealers in suites, regrettably that seems to be at the PMC's discretion. At the covert Oxonian aerodrome there was a points system based upon marital status and seniority. That decided where an individual would go on the waiting list for a suite (if they wanted one) - so living-in JOs invariably moved up the list quicker than ancient S/L beanstealers. At Coningsby, no beanstealer was allowed onto the waiting list for suites - but at Honignton if you were a student you were banished to the Orlits even though there might be empty rooms in the main OM. I recall paying full food and accom whilst 'existing' in an asbestos clad dog kennel whilst a beanstealer blunty from Wittering lived in a room with his 3 shirts and washing kit absolutely free - and didn't even pay for his 3 meals in the mess per day. Hopefully those days have now gone?

[BananaBoy]

As for senior beanstealers in suites, regrettably that seems to be at the PMC's discretion.
Actually, I think you will find that it is in QRs.
So I guess we will enjoy the perks of a suite once we have been in long enough....

[Grimweasel]

All this was outlined in a DIN about 3 months ago!
Bean Stealers will be charged full food rates as of next year. Cheers! I live away all week, not thru choice, but thru posting by the desk officer. So why should I pay full rates?
On the recent visits to the Stns the CINC was made aware by the same Flt Lt that wrote into the RAF News. Funny old thing, he knew nothing of the new food charges. He did say he would inestigate.
True erosion of any benefits that we did have left.
My wife works for very large US company based in UK (and the world) and she is paid full expenses when away on courses that the company dictates she will attend. She said it was a true dereliction of leadership by the seniors for letting this go thru and I tend to agree!
Still, with Gordon in charge soon it can only get worse!
Enjoy
Grim

[peppermint_jam]

Does this mean that we'll be expected to pay for the honour of going to the desert for a 4 month stretch? That'd be a real treat! Perhaps that's why they introduced this new bonus scheme, to pay for food!

[vecvechookattack]

Cheers! I live away all week, not thru choice, but thru posting by the desk officer. So why should I pay full rates?


Why should you pay reduced rates then?

I live away all week, not thru choice

Actually, it is your choice. No one has forced you.

[themightyimp]

Why should you pay reduced rates then?

Why should we be forced to pay at all? I live as a beanstealer in an excess married quarter and have worked out that it would be cheaper for me to eat at Gordon Ramsay's than the mess (I have eaten there 10 times in three years although I am forced to pay for it). Don't get me wrong - it is excellent food and we pay bugger all for it but bring on PAYD.

[JessTheDog]

I am on a course with my public sector employer next week. Lunch is provided free of charge.

I used to envy the bean-stealers, as a weekend inmate with too far to travel other than every fortnight. At High Wycombe, following the mass exodus on a Friday afternoon (following a bit of Thursday night binge drinking) the range and quality of food changed from quite reasonable lunches to pie-and-chips or chips-and-pie.

[MReyn24050]

Ericferret:- My employer currently provides bed and breakfast if overnighting, £4 for lunch, £18 without receipt or reasonable amount above this receipted for evening meal including a glass of wine or beer.
Grimweasel:- My wife works for very large US company based in UK (and the world) and she is paid full expenses when away on courses that the company dictates she will attend. She said it was a true dereliction of leadership by the seniors for letting this go thru and I tend to agree!
Yes, it is a known fact that civilian business concerns cover the expenses of their employees when they are required to travel on behalf of the company. However, any expenses incurred in the course of such undertaking are recuperated from their business clients in the bill for the services provided or in the cost of the articles they are producing or selling. They certainly do not do it out of charity.

[themightyimp]

At High Wycombe, following the mass exodus on a Friday afternoon (following a bit of Thursday night binge drinking)

Been there sooo many times..... :ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

And your point MReyn is what :confused:

[Grimweasel]

Peppermint ..

No, field conditions still apply and food will be provided free of charge whilst OOA.. I don't think even Gordon Brown would touch that one...

[vecvechookattack]

Why should we be forced to pay at all?


Derrrrr....You'll be wanting free food next....Tee Hee