Bright Lights, Lasers & Aircraft

[monty21]

Good evening! I have been reading the threads on this forum and have found them to be a great source of information - so firstly, thank you! I am currently researching into the use of bright lights and lasers against aircraft in the UK.

Specifically, I am looking for information about incidents where people have tried to disrupt aircraft by shining lights/lasers at aircraft and then have been subsequently prosecuted under the Air Navigation Order. The reason I have posted in this particular forum is because I have read somewhere (and I can't remember where!) that someone was caught shining a laser at a police helicopter in the UK and then charged with endangering the safety of an aircraft.

If anyone has any info about this, or other similar incidents, I would be very, very grateful.

Best regards and thank you in advance,

Monty.

[Bravo73]

Welcome to Rotorheads, monty21.

Here is the recent thread that you are probably looking for:

Lasers pointed at aircraft (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=264322)


A PPRuNE search might also through up multiple results.



HTH,

B73

[monty21]

Thanks for the link - believe me, I did use the search function (but obviously not properly!)

[jayteeto]

There are so many loopholes for a lawyer to exploit, that the CPS are scared to progress a case. I have had two incidents, blokes caught in the act, where no further action was taken on the specific charge. One got a public order fixed penalty and the other (who is total scum) had the 'accusation' used as part of his 'superASBO' hearing. The incident report went to the CAA twice and nothing more heard.

[monty21]

sorry to hear about your incidnets jayteeto - how dangerous were they?

on another note, how the effing hell can you get out of shinging a laser at an aircraft? if i recall, the ANO refers to "recklessly or negligantly endangering an aircraft" - what sort of defense would someone have?

jail is too good for these types!

[Droopy]

The problem here is there is no clear offence to prosecute. If you go for endangerment then any defence lawyer with half a brain [no comment] would "put it to you" that if you felt the aircraft was in danger why did you not abandon the task instead of merely moving position or turning the aircraft? [the commonest means of dealing with it].
Article 135, Dangerous Lights, sounds attractive but is irrelevant to such a case. So what's left? Obstruct police? The CPS are notoriously reluctant to take on a case without a better than evens chance of success so that one is unlikely.
As ever, offences keep ahead of the law. Creating a specific offence of "shining a feckin big light at crews trying to get a job done" would be ideal but the CAA would have to be convinced of the need. Personally I've been targetted from over 12 miles by a high powered laser and there was a spate of incidents involving Manchester arrivals - it's not merely a nuisance.

[jayteeto]

The second incident was a superman-torch that took my night vision for quite a few seconds. I just plugged the autopilot in until everything settled, it was tense for a few seconds, but dangerous? a little bit of potential I suppose. Droopy is right though, you could just fly away, so as I positioned myself out of the beams reach and we used the camera to catch him, then a lawyer would say it isn't dangerous.
The difficulty is 'intent', he could say he was just showing his mates a new torch and hit us accidentally. Intent is so hard to prove.

[monty21]

glad to hear you're ok but it does sound like it was a dangerous incident.

it's outragous that people are not getting prosecuted for this type of thing - my understanding is there doesn't need to be any intent proved, just recklessness. someone should be ashamed.

[Paradism]

Monty21

A good start to your search would be to call the SIDD at UK CAA. They compile all the statistics from mandatory occurrence reports and I have always found them to be most helpful.

[scooter boy]

"The second incident was a superman-torch that took my night vision for quite a few seconds."

Even if you only get the edge of the beam at 90 degrees to the direction you are looking it can really be a problem. I experienced this recently.
Some monkey was having fun shining what I presume to be one of those 1 million candle buy at the petrol station for £5.99 halogen torches up at me in the pitch black a couple of weeks ago.
It was truly blinding for a few seconds even though I was not looking straight at it and it was shone up from 1000ft or so directly below the aircraft.

SB

[Graviman]

Looks like there are practical solutions to this on the horizon:

Patent 6243219 - Laser reactive material (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6243219-description.html)

Recent article on laser reactive material for pilot eye protection (http://oemagazine.com/newscast/2004/061804_newscast01.html)

Looks like substantial funding is available already, but increased awareness will get this idea into production.

Mart

[jayteeto]

It took a while to reach my current outlook on life and I certainly think I am a calmer person thesedays. When you first see someone get away during an incident, you go over it again and again, wondering what you did wrong. The 'old sweat' bobbies that I work with have seen it all before with new pilots and they mentored me for a while. The answer is simple, today may not be your day, but these boys will be back again and again. It is only a matter of time, but they WILL get prosecuted eventually. It works, they do!!
So fly safe, stay positive and above all, learn to enjoy every flying hour, even in doggo weather. How many people get a chance to do what we do.....AND get paid!!

[SilsoeSid]

Graviman,
Some pretty heavy reading there, however as LWAAPAM has mentioned in a similar thread, just having a visor/protective goggle isn't enough, you need them to be specific for the frequency of Laser.

On deployment to Kuwait we were given, as a flight, some laser visors for our helmets. Self fit of course, any scratches would made the visors useless and single frequency protection.

Thankfully the threat never raised it's head, and surprise of surprises, the issue was never taken up back at the QMs on our return.
Much like the Bosnian body armour!!

And that is a far bigger company than any UK Police Force!

SS

[monty21]

Apologies for dragging up an old thread but you guys were so helpful last time! My research continues and I have found, amongst other things, the following incident....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005530666,00.html

It's a long shot but does anyone know what happened to these people? I can find out plenty about the incident but not the consequences.

Thanking you in advance. :)

[Helinut]

Monty,
It is not hopeless. There are some cases of successful prosecutions. They mainly seem to be around the endangering aircraft offence.
The "problem" is the same as any legal matter - it depends upon the evidence. It also increasingly depends upon the individual CPS lawyer or clerk asked to decide on whether a prosecution is "in the public interest". I believe (others may know better) that sometimes these cases are pursued by police forces, as well as the CAA
The worry in my mind is that they will find something more powerful given time.....:eek: :*